News24

Green paper is 'attack' on white farmers

2012-05-31 17:25

Pretoria - The green paper on land reform is a document of racial mobilisation against white farmers, the FW de Klerk Foundation said on Thursday.

"If you have read the green paper, you will realise the degree of racial aggression that it contains... it is impossible to ignore," executive director Dave Steward said at a conference on the document, organised by AfriForum in Pretoria.

"The inflammatory historic analysis is irreconcilable with the Constitution's goal of healing the divisions of the past."

Steward said the green papers' characterisation of white farmers as colonialists came close to hate speech.

Violates values

He said the statement in the green paper that "all anti-colonial struggles are, at the core, about two things: repossession of land lost through force or deceit and restoring centrality of the indigenous culture", violated the values of equality, non-racialism and human dignity.

"It is absolutely unacceptable to state that any cultural group is more central than any other."

According to Steward, the green paper would have a great impact on commercial farming, domestic and foreign investment, and race relations. He said 90% of the farms that had been transferred to blacks had failed.

"It is simply a reflection of the truth that successful farming requires a great deal of capital, a great deal of experience and training, and often, a great deal of luck.

"It would be the height of foolishness to embark on a land reform policy that would destroy the ability of our farms to feed our people."

If the government had any hopes for reconciliation and national unity it was imperative that all South Africans be treated fairly.

"It was unfair for whites to do this to black South Africans under apartheid, and it would be equally unfair for blacks to do so to white South Africans in pursuit of their ideology of the national democratic revolution," Steward said.

Comments
  • Hudayfah - 2012-05-31 17:33

    90 percent? . . . .best you try something else

      Piet - 2012-05-31 17:42

      More like 99%. That sounds a correct...

      Hudayfah - 2012-05-31 17:52

      only now the casino shuts down because the new owners cant play poker

      tobydt - 2012-05-31 17:53

      WhitePrivilege - And then you get the other white guys at the table that didnt cheat, but borrowed chips from the cheater. They repaid their debt, and now are forced to give up their chips to the new cheaters at the table. The connected black guys. Now they are sitting next to fellow black poker players who only hold 1 chip. But instead of sharing their chips, they merely keep taking chips from the previous cheaters and honest players. While the poor poker players keep looking at the white poker players and their diminishing chips for wealth.

      Mmannyo - 2012-05-31 17:55

      Race card anyone!!!

      Tamaranui - 2012-05-31 17:56

      Gains under the Old Regimes platform were illegitimately gained hence the repatriation of RSA land. The fact that the farmers has gained many generations of the good life from these Businesses is not lost. The Farmers will be compensated which is better than the Old regime whom confiscated land with No compensation under the guise of the ""Group areas act""

      Junebugg - 2012-05-31 18:08

      If i come to your house and steal your basic car....Put rims , sound, change paint on it, change the interior. Does this mean It is now mine and when you want it , it is unfair for me to give it to give it back because I have put more effort on it?

      renny.meere - 2012-05-31 18:25

      @Sinudeity - Spot On - Well said!

      Jack - 2012-05-31 18:34

      Funny how blacks always complain about apartheid, when confronted they always state they were perfectly happily before the colonists white man arrived and always wanted to live the way they lived. So my question is, why complain about apartheid ...ie not being able to sit next to a white person etc...if blacks were content with living like they always have been (in their homelands)? There was never slavery in South Africa...blacks wanted jobs so they migrated were the whites were. The other point is segregation, which is still alive and well in South Africa...what do you call all these walled off electrified secured estates? That is proof that people don’t want to live together. Perhaps the western cape should be declared an independent state, interesting to see which part flourishes and which part ends up like the rest of Africa.

      Tamaranui - 2012-05-31 18:56

      ""why complain about apartheid"" You gots to be kidding surely...??

      Oistar - 2012-05-31 20:14

      No junebugg, you can cart a car away, iw remove it. That is stealing. Buying land is a different story altogether. It was a fixed property which in most cases was sold on. Your analogy is too simple to qualify

      Jack - 2012-05-31 20:22

      @Tamaranui...The whites built the system...economics, education, farming etc....you guys choose to join the system...nobody forced you to join the system...like you always say...we were perfectly content living in our huts and going about doing our own business. If we had arrived to a black nation that had all the revolutionary ideas, banking, medicine etc...we the white man "colonists" would have had to adhere to your regulations and rules. This is just the way life and evolution has panned out…you cant blame the whites for being inquisitive stepping on a ship and exploring new frontiers.. …what if man kind ie EARTH finds a new planet with half ape/human species living on it and they miraculously have a plant that cures HIV…do we colonise and farm this new plant/cure or do we simply let be and let the universe go by?

      pushka.vladovic - 2012-05-31 20:45

      @ Tamaranui. White farmers, "many generations of the good life" You know nothing, My Uncle was a farmer in the former Ciskei and I spent many holidays on his farm. Truth is, they lived in a corrugated iron building, they had an open pit toilet, they used to boil water on a wood stove to bath, electricity was for light only and was supplied by an old diesel generator and this was true for many of the farms in the area. Despite this they lived a good, active life,their community was close knit and they loved and cared for each other, they sent their children to good schools to be educated and had to hand over farms that had been in their families for generations when the homelands became independant. My cousins visited their old home a few weeks back and wish that they had'nt. The farm is a wasteland, the buildings are delerict and completely vandalised. I rest my case!

      Tamaranui - 2012-05-31 20:52

      AAaaahhhhhh.............The good ol' days........

      Denise - 2012-06-02 09:16

      The government of South Africa owns millions of hectares, and is the largest land owner in South Africa. Instead of offering this land to South Africa’s poor people of all races, the ANC focuses on making the blacks envious of the white land owners who produce most of South Africa’s food.

      farmfreund - 2012-06-02 12:25

      We will answer with a RED PAPER

  • Ben - 2012-05-31 17:36

    What is new. It was never about productive farming but merely posession of assets for free.

  • ekke.oupa - 2012-05-31 17:37

    I expect that the promised "checks and balances" should address the problems listed in this report. If the promised "checks and balances" do not exist, then may GOD please bless this country.

  • malusi - 2012-05-31 17:44

    I'd like to hear what white farmers proposal on how we should conduct land reform

      Piet - 2012-05-31 17:47

      What about the white farmers giving a portion of their land to black farmers and then they work together on these farms? This way the blacks will also learn how to farm from the whites.

      Piet - 2012-05-31 17:48

      Maybe, just maybe, these farm attacks will stop!

      malusi - 2012-05-31 17:55

      @Piet. Not a bad idea.

      martinpeter.law - 2012-05-31 17:59

      Hi Piet Such a system could only work if subsidised by govenrment. The margins in agriculture is to small thesedays and therefore 'portions' can in most cases not be managed profitably. Some very forward thinking farmers have set up companies for their businesses and offered workers shares. That is the only way in which I see this system achieving success.

      bertie.brink - 2012-05-31 18:23

      I live in Zambia and about 60-80% of all farms owned here are all owned by SA farmers and Zim farmers. The governments Leased the land to the farmers for 99years on conditions of successful farming and they must reinvest back into local communities like build schools and so on. I cannot see why we cannot do the same in SA get our fellow south africans involved and build a better nation.

      TheyTookMyNickLaZynEko - 2012-05-31 18:25

      yes but first let us all stop defining each other by the mere color of our skins, that has nothing to do with what is in our minds!

      Ben - 2012-05-31 18:55

      Bertie, a good idea provided the purpose of the exercise is production of food and not just ownership.

      Chumscrubber1 - 2012-06-01 07:06

      Malusi, a very simple solution is for the government to buy land on the open market for aspiring black farmers. It would be a lot cheaper and less drawn out and successful than simply giving it to communities. The government could provide support, and many white farmers are more than willing to help as mentors. Doing it on a purely ideological basis makes it appear black people are failures, as the land is given to people on the basis that they used to live on the land, it has nothing to do with their will to farm.

      Chumscrubber1 - 2012-06-01 07:10

      Another method is to utilise the 1000's of hectares the state owns currently. Also revive the 10's of thousands of hectares already given to black people, by re allocating it to people willing to work the land as farmers. This will cost a lot as most of these farms have been completely trashed, so it is going to be like starting from scratch.

      Denise - 2012-06-02 09:19

      @malusi - The government owns millions of hectares and is the largest land owner in South Africa. Instead of offering this land to South Africa’s poor people of all races, the ANC focuses on making the blacks envious of the white land owners who produce South Africa’s food.

  • Koos - 2012-05-31 17:45

    Can we buy the farms back at reduced book value - after it was reduced to desert land?

      Denise - 2012-06-02 09:55

      @CALAMITYSA - The early settlers certainly didn’t stumble across anything approaching a sophisticated and developed society. After all, why invent the wheel when you don’t plan on going anywhere?

  • Junebugg - 2012-05-31 17:45

    We been through this... White people are going to say it is wrong to take the land back and Black people will say the land must go back to its rightful owners... Predictable South Africans....I SAY LET US SHARE!!!!

      Chumscrubber1 - 2012-06-01 07:13

      Why share when what you give them is broken? Whats the point, who gains?

      Denise - 2012-06-02 09:25

      Ask not what the black man has done to help himself, ask what the white man has done to help the black man.... When will S.A. whites declare independence in the Western half of the country and leave all non-whites behind? There are Whites who stay in SA because, despite all the efforts made by the government to dispossess them, they can still make money. The genius of White people is to generate wealth. The wealth can be taken away, but not the means by which it was made.

  • koos.vanzyl.98 - 2012-05-31 17:46

    Can we buy the land back - after reduced to desert land?

      Johann - 2012-05-31 18:35

      The land reduced to a desert land ,your brain is a desert and the only green in there is the green you smoke!!!

      Denise - 2012-06-02 10:25

      @CALAMITYSA - There is a common belief in Sa that the Land Act of 1913 shoved blacks on reserves and prohibited them from buying land in white areas. That whites forcibly removed them to these reserves and that these reserves were on the worst land in the country with no mineral riches and that whites kept all the best land and minerals for themselves. Now if I was a black man, I would probably also want to believe that myth, because it would ensure me eternal victimhood status and compensation for generations to come. Unfortunately, it is a blatant lie and can be attributed to the lack of reading ability or legal comprehension of the journalists and historians of our time. First of all the biggest Platinum reserves in the world runs through the former Black homeland of Bophuthatswana. The former white government had no problem allocating this area to the Tswanas for self rule, although they already had a massive country called Botswana given to them by the British, originally called Bechuanaland. Blacks further got another two massive countries from the British called Lesotho and Swaziland.

      Denise - 2012-06-02 10:33

      When one compares the rainfall map of South Africa and anybody with elementary knowledge of South Africa will tell you that the largest part of SA is called the Karoo. It is a semi dessert comparable to Arizona or Nevada in the USA. Blacks never even entered this area let alone settled it. Whites made it blossom & created successful sheep farms producing meat of world quality. Black “Settlements” are found on the north & east coast of South Africa. The East Coast having a sub tropical climate & the north a prairie-like climate with summer rainfall & thunder storms. An exception to this is the Western Cape with a Mediterranean climate & winter rainfall. The northern & eastern part of SA with its beautiful green grasslands & fertile soil is where the blacks eventually coalesced and this is the land they chose for themselves. Their eventual homelands were found on the land they inhabited out of their own free will. It was perfect grazing area for the cattle herding blacks.

      Denise - 2012-06-02 10:58

      Blacks never settled SA, their presence was nomadic. Blacks were mere itinerants who travelled from place to place with no fixed home. They had no demarcated areas, no fences, no borders, no maps, no title deeds to proof ownership of any land apart from a verbal claim & mutual understanding that their temporary presence in a certain area in a certain period of time constituted “ownership” of the land. They left behind no foundations of buildings, no statues, no roads, no rock paintings, not a single proof of “settlement” of the land, prior to the whites settling SA. The only rock paintings were made by the Bushmen & Hottentots in the caves they temporarily occupied. Blacks were pastoral-nomads & the Bushmen/Hottentots were hunter-gatherer-nomads. Whites on the other hand built cities, railroads, dams & a first world country. To claim that the whole of Africa belongs to Blacks is absurd. In fact, the pyramids of Egypt is proof of white settlement going back thousands of years, so that of the Phoenicians settling in Carthage & the Greeks settling in Alexandria. The Arabs settled North Africa soon after the Prophet Mohammed died & the whites settled Southern Africa from 1652 onwards. Today there are three Africa’s (ref the book “The Third Africa”) …Arabic up north, Black in the centre & Whites in the south. The white settlers of the Cape first came face to face with the Bantu around 1770 on the banks of the Great Fish River, 120 yrs after Van Riebeeck came to the Cape.

      Denise - 2012-06-02 11:01

      The Truth - Blacks created the homelands themselves, thanks to Shaka. The common belief is that the black tribes at the time were all living peacefully with each other. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Zulu tyrant, Shaka, at the time was committing genocide against other tribes. Wiping out an estimated 2 million people in what is now known as the Defecane (great scattering). The Swazis & the Ndebeles fled back north in the direction of central Africa where they migrated from. The Sotho’s fled into the mountains of what is today, Lesotho. The rest of the smaller tribes huddled together trying to find strength in coalescing. It is into this Maelstrom of black chaos that the Boers trekked in 1838. As far as they went they found large open sections of country uninhabited by anyone. Black tribes fleeing Shaka’s carnage grouped themselves into areas finding protection in concentrated numbers. This is how Sir Theophilus Shepstone later found them huddled together on self created reserves. The creators of the Bantustans were not the Boers or Whites, it was a black man called Shaka. Did Whites simply take over black land? The answer is no. The elaborate answer can be found in a letter written in 1860 by the congregation of the short lived Boer Republic of Lydenburg. It is documented in the book, “Kerkverraad” by François Richter and Dr X on page 98. That is the history of black S.Africans that blacks prefer to ignore…

  • Nare James Mashamaite - 2012-05-31 17:50

    The constructors of the Constitution were fooled with regard to Land issues. The Constitution was supposed to state clearly that absolution for the beneficiary of apartheid will be actualized when penance is fulfilled. Their penance is to give back what was given by the apartheid regime n that which was acquired unjustly. There you might have a remedy for racism.

      Ben - 2012-05-31 19:06

      To give back what was given by the apartheid regime. Wake up man. These farms were bought by their present owners. Nothing was for free as it is now.

      Charnelle - 2012-05-31 21:42

      Have you ever even planted a tomatoe?

      Chumscrubber1 - 2012-06-01 07:16

      Another academic ideologist, Nare? Any interest is a logical solution to the "problem"? Seeing what happens to land currently taken from us and given to people is what perpetuates racism. Not much to inspire.

  • Bless Boswell - 2012-05-31 17:52

    Just how much land is government owned? What is government doing with its land? And how much if what's left is owned by whites? And what are the whites doing with that land? And the how much is owned by blacks and what are they doing with it?

  • monde.sibisi - 2012-05-31 17:53

    Racism this racism that......ay foetsek maan......My family owned acres of land south of Newcastle which was unfortunately grabbed by the colonizers, and we were sent north into Madadeni a small township in Newcastle, but that doesn't mean we should now go back there and demand the land back!! What about its current occupiers?? Ay let those farmers be maan, because the land we claim to own will eventually end up at a corrupt tenderers mercy anyway

      blipsie - 2012-05-31 18:31

      @ Monde you are right. Wonder what the Germans would think if I pitched up there and demanded back land that my great whatever was forced to flee from when persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church. Okay, that just made me laugh, would love to see their faces. Maybe I should do just that!

      allcoveredinNinjas - 2012-06-01 08:13

      You do see the coincidences of inflamed racial tensions in the lead up to Manguang, same modis operandi as Polokwane.

  • Tamaranui - 2012-05-31 17:53

    Now Now, Lets not be hasty there Steward.

  • Khetha Hlophe - 2012-05-31 18:01

    I don't say whites should be depossessed of land but what belongs to Cesare must go back to him that will only be fair. If u used my cow u need to bring it back then I can see what we will do with the calves .All that came out of the cow is also mine.

      Pennie - 2012-05-31 18:22

      Okay so will it be fair if I burn down everything on that farm and give you the bare piece of land, because that was what my greatgreatgrandfather supposedly stole from you

      Charnelle - 2012-05-31 21:44

      Pennie! Your on fire! Most sensible comment I have seen in ages? Khetlo care to comment?

      Chumscrubber1 - 2012-06-01 07:22

      I think Pennie hit the nail on the head. Have to admit, almost all land reform farms have basically reverted to bare land, so maybe that is what Khetha wishes for. Weird, guess he does not realise we now have a massive urban population to feed, that things have changed a bit since 300 years ago. Good for nature conservation I guess?

  • Mtk.the.poet - 2012-05-31 18:02

    I honestly thought only blacks throw a racism card,I'm afraid,we will never live in peace in our motherland!!! This create a mouthfull of hatrate in our fragile hearts!!!

      blipsie - 2012-06-02 10:38

      Jeez dude, are you for real?? Someone pitches at your house, insists on sharing everything that you worked hard for (not inherited, not gotten for free, but worked hard for) would you offer them a beer and welcome braai?

  • Ken - 2012-05-31 18:02

    "He said 90% of the farms that had been transferred to blacks had failed" And if you gave farms to the normal white, Indian or so called Coloured guy from the city it would also fail. You HAVE to be a farmer to make it succeed. You need capital and it must be in your blood. Tell you what, let's take the mining industry and give every person a piece of dirt to work and see how that pans out in the long run. Stop destroying what works and the government must provide land for new farms. The ANC is making this a land issue, there is a lot of good land standing fallow.

      William - 2012-05-31 21:59

      Nah mate. It's not about food, not about minerals, not about planning for the future, not about restitution of past ill-gotten gains under apartheid. This is about votes. It's about garnering fanatical support based on the promise of a Utopia for the proletariat. Boss Robert did it up in Zimbabwe 20 years ago, nearly 20 years after the war ended. SA is close to 20 years now, since the end of apartheid. It's the natural progression of things out here in Africa...and there's not much you can do about it. All the signs point to the same thing. Zuma = Mugabe, Zille = Tsvangarai. Textbook stuff if you ask me.

  • TheyTookMyNickLaZynEko - 2012-05-31 18:04

    when will skin color stop mattering????

  • daniel.motlhatlhedi - 2012-05-31 18:14

    Give back what you owe

      Brad.Kopping - 2012-05-31 19:01

      they owe you nothing cause you never had anything in the first place!! get over yourself dude !

  • melania.nel - 2012-05-31 18:21

    I don't really see a problem here. Most people who's land was 'stolen' aren't alive anymore, but the ones who 'stole' it are also dead, so who do you fortune and who do you penalise now? Why not start by buying all the advertised farms already for sale and start helping people getting a better life if that is all its about... Why go through all this paperwork if there is land available and at really good prices I may say. If it is about uplifting and helping the people, do the immediate cheaper option? Why let people wait again. Some people really need jobs and all the gov wants to do is talk and blame apartheid.

  • Hadebe - 2012-05-31 18:25

    Honestly people, not every white man is a farmer, the same with blacks, we just cant take farms from farmers n give it to people who doeznt have any interest in farming, n hope the produce wil b mantained, let blacks n whites who have interest in farming b given equal opportunities. What m concernd about here is just land to build my family a house n have a very small garden in the back. Currently we are given a 20 by 15 meters land to build homes, it just allows us to build a house n u cant even plant a tree, this is definately not the freedom we envisaged, we have a partial workng democracy but we are nt free, we are starved for land not 4 farming but to live in, what kind of a freedom is this, we might not have anything else, but a reasonable little piece of land wil make a huge difference. Thats all.

      Bruce Johnston - 2012-05-31 18:33

      Stop. Voting. For. The. ANC...

      ratsaka.eugene - 2012-05-31 18:51

      Bruce sir, Who.Must.We.Vote.For. Please help mlungu.

      Charnelle - 2012-05-31 22:00

      Finally someone who has caught a freaking wakeup! You dont just hand over a friggin farm man! Absolutely spot on.

      Paul - 2012-06-02 14:23

      As a white i would also like a reasonable little piece of land it would make a huge difference

      RangoAndEmy - 2012-06-02 19:02

      Im sorry Hadebe but we are too many people on this earth for everyone to have a large erf of land, those days are gone, even white people dont have gardens today.

  • blipsie - 2012-05-31 18:25

    Whenever the issue of land reform pops up, I have to giggle. Because it seems the wanna-be farmers think you walk on to a farm and...well farm and get filthy rich. Take it from a farmer: Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! 99% of the farmers you see works for the bank. That nice bakkie, well that too is owned by the bank. That nice farm? Trust me, owned by the bank. They operate on bank loans and God's mercy when it comes to weather. If you take over the farm, will you be taking over the bank loan? And no, farming is definitely not for the money. It's a lifestyle. It's an illusion to think farmers own their farms (I'm sure there are some, but not that many) the banks own it my dear wanna-be farmers.

      lee.boyd.94 - 2012-06-01 10:24

      Yep. And don't go over board on buying new machinery etc, on your first bumper crop as your only one crop from ruin and dept. Enjoy.

  • Willem - 2012-05-31 18:29

    When will the African gentlemen stop their lying and sniveling moaning about land being "stolen"? That is the greatest load of B s, but it is repeated ad nauseam! The whole of the Cape up to the Fish River was occupied by whites because the blacks were not there and the browns were beaten or died from whatever diseases and left the land open for the taking. The Border wars from 1820 onwards were won by the British Colonial forces and land taken in war is lawfully that of the conqueror. The Voortrekkers in the Free State beat Mizilikazi who had subjugated the previous owners and he left for Bulawayo leaving the conquerors in possession of all he had previously conquered. After Blood River the the Voortrekkers there had beaten the Zulu nation but were forced out by the British Colonial Government which took over Natal and eventually conquered the Zulu again at Ulundi after the setback at Islandwana. The British Colonial Government left the Transkei to the locals and hardly any white ever owned land in that part of the country. So where is the "theft"? Admit that you lost all the wars and get over it. You were lucky to get control of the government of the whole of the RSA because the whites were so foolish as to vote "yes" in a referendum - not because you beat then in any war despite your yakking about some "struggle" and songs about machine guns. If you want to farm, then buy some land and show me that you can make a success of it. So far there is little evidence of it.

      Tamaranui - 2012-05-31 18:36

      zzzzzzzzzz...........zzzzzzzzzzz

      Tamaranui - 2012-05-31 19:10

      hahhahahahahaha.... It's like rowing up to a Beach in Europe and claiming myself Indigenous people of the Land cos' the beach was deserted.

      Tax - 2012-05-31 20:14

      Thank you Willem some truth for a change. Don't expect the brainwashed massess to believe it though.

      Adolf - 2012-05-31 21:02

      Tell them. What have they or their forefathers ever produced, designed or invented? If they want the truth they must accept that without the whiteman they would still be in the dark-ages without any BMW's MBenzes etc.

  • Mike - 2012-05-31 18:31

    Malema for presidente.him and his cronies with the help of "uncle BOB" who is now the "UN tourism" minister,that should end all investment into AFRICA including ZA/nationlise everything, chase th e "colonial" White man away and "Bobs your uncle"

  • Elize - 2012-05-31 18:32

    Owning farmland DOES NOT make you rich, you have to work extremely hard to make it profitable! Of all the land I know that was bought by government and then SUPPORTED by government, the new owners dont care about the land they are just interested in the millions of Rs paid every month to sustain the support ... that is not called farming. We should stop blaming race and take our hats off to the farmers who work hard and supply us all with food ... maze (pap & bread), milk, eggs, meat, etc. Please stop slapping the hand that feeds you ... I say it again, owning a piece of land does not make you rich!!!

      Tamaranui - 2012-05-31 18:44

      """the new owners dont care about the land they are just interested in the millions of Rs paid every month to sustain the support ... that is not called farming. """ This is your Opinion obviously as I am sure NOT every new owner is known to you. I suggest that there is an equal amount of Previously disadvantaged Farmers whom would love the opportunity to be mentored into the Entire portfolio of this Industry from the Existing Farmer, subsequently spreading skills. Once sufficiently educated, The Farm can be shared.

      sven.gohre - 2012-05-31 20:14

      @Tamaranui, why must the White farmers educate those that want to take a portion of their farms for Mahala? Why can the Black aspiring farmers not get their arses off to Agricultural college and learn what farming is all about at their own expense? Why is it that the Whites must always bend backwards to educate, feed, employ and feel guilty that they were more successful then the tribes of Africa? When is the Black man going to start doing things for themselves and not always crying about the things that were so called stolen from them and start taking responsibility and pride from what they create and produce from nothing, something that the White Colonialists were able to do.

      Tamaranui - 2012-05-31 20:38

      Lets just say it's a downpayment in recognizing Past injustices and helping the Entire RSA prosper.............I thinks the exchange of Knowledge is a fair trade off considering RSA history.

      sven.gohre - 2012-05-31 21:47

      @Tamaranui, as for past injustices, the African tribes were treated better by the Colonialists than they ever were by the tribal Kings and Indunas. The people that were conquered by the roving armies of the African tribes sold the vanquished into slavery, or the women and young girls were captured, raped and made the wives of their captors. The Colonialists brought education, sanitation, roads, cities, mines, electricity, telephones and separated the different cultures. They did not educate every Black to University level, as Apartheid believed that the Black tribes were hewers of wood and drawers of water, but they did educate many Blacks to be doctors, lawyers as well as teachers. They also built schools, hospitals and Universities for Black people. Please remind me of how many Universities the anc government has built for their people and how many students are still learning under trees. The system of Apartheid was only in force for 40 years, the anc government has had half that time in power and they have accomplished hardly any upliftment of their people, but they have lined their Elite's pockets with billions of Rands at the expense of the people that vote for them. That is what is the real crime against humanity as they pretend to care, but do not. At least the Apartheid government was honest and driven by a vision, not like the anc, clueless and lying to their very own at the same time creating even greater poverty while pretending to be their liberators.

  • Tax - 2012-05-31 18:37

    Just give them all the farms, let them screw them up and starve to death.

  • Stewart Croucamp - 2012-05-31 18:39

    Watch them destroy the land like they have destroyed the schools, hospitals, roads, etc. Australia beckons

      Hadebe - 2012-05-31 18:46

      So you suggest they just leave the problem as it is, that wont be fair either, or do u have any softer approach?

      Stewart Croucamp - 2012-05-31 18:55

      Hadebe. I suggest they get an education in farming. Learn from the white farmers. They are not prepared to learn or work hard.

      Tamaranui - 2012-05-31 19:11

      Bon Voyage,

      rowen.loretz - 2012-05-31 19:28

      yeah, the whole eastern cape provincial government is bankrupt. Just a matter of time when the whole SA is gonna be broke and they will just tax people more until there is no more left. Some teachers here havent been paid for 6 months, neither many nurses and state doctors, whilst the ministers are getting increases every second week. The ANC does not know how to run a country.Maybe we can do a swop. Give all the land back to the indigenous people and let them farm and give government back to the colonialists ( guys i am trying to avoid the race card hence my use of these terms - as long as i dont say black or white ). The colonialists invented money at at least know how to use it properly.

      rowen.loretz - 2012-05-31 19:30

      Our local municipality which is also bankrupt has proposed a 12 % rates increase too. That is 6% more than the the guideline set by government. Milking it , milking it. Does moeny grow on trees?

      Stewart Croucamp - 2012-05-31 19:40

      LOL @ Tama. We are building a nice little nest in Australia. We are first getting our fair share out of this country. When you and your children and the rest of Africa have killed each other for the crumbs our children will return and rebuild this once beautiful country. Unlike you we are not afraid to work for what we have.

      Tamaranui - 2012-05-31 19:56

      Require a second Bon Voyage, Seems you ain't got the fight to be a Real South African. This is the hardest continent to live in however with it comes character and a lifestyle not found anywhere else on this Planet. Now that it's an even playing field, we are off to Aussie. Your Prediction has been around for the last 20 years. Heaps of Australians are still under the ""Ron Howard cloud"" I suggest you will feel right at home.

  • Mtshezi Yonk'insipho Iyawasha Mkhize - 2012-05-31 18:41

    If they feel that the Green Paper is aggressive n is an attack, what do they then propose? What would be the softer approach, (Which has been played for the longest while) Perhaps the GVMT knows that they are out of time n wana redresss n redistribute hastily n justifiably so I think , The farmers shouldn't cry foul n not provide a way forward which will benefit everyone....Let them come up with solid proposals going forward....

      tobydt - 2012-05-31 18:45

      Mugabe pulled the same strategy in Zim fearing losing support during elections. Now the people have farms, apparently (although it was actually just given to connected cadres) and the people are sitting with 95% unemployment.

      Hadebe - 2012-05-31 18:50

      Good question, what do they propose? Or they d rather thngs are left as they are nw.

      Tax - 2012-05-31 18:56

      They are too busy farming to produce food for the overbreeding underproducing masses. How do you expect them to have time to come up with solutions?

      Hadebe - 2012-05-31 19:09

      So let those who have the time come up with solutions n stop moaning.

      Tamaranui - 2012-05-31 19:12

      I suggest that there is an equal amount of Previously disadvantaged Farmers whom would love the opportunity to be mentored into the Entire portfolio of this Industry from the Existing Farmer, subsequently spreading skills. Once sufficiently educated, The Farm can be shared.

      JohnnoBfree - 2012-05-31 20:13

      If the government could just help the new landowners to farm properly I would have no issues. Why take the land from productive farmers and give them to people who have no idea on how to run the farms. Makes no sense at all.

      Derek Gerber - 2012-05-31 20:47

      They have but the unable minister thinks the ocean is in Pretoria!

      tobydt - 2012-06-01 09:15

      Tamaranui - If previously disadvantaged farmers want help from the boere, then they need to stop demonising them. I know I wouldnt want to help anyone that keeps threatening me.

  • renny.meere - 2012-05-31 18:44

    Still living in the past. Nothing for mahala!

  • Vic - 2012-05-31 18:47

    This is carbon copy of what happened in Zimbabwe. Land given to blacks who knew nothing about commercial farming, and within short period, land became baron. Same will happen here. I am not opposed to land being allocated to blacks, but government must pay market price, and provide a training programme for would- be farmers.

  • Deon - 2012-05-31 18:52

    ..and so we continue to bite the hand that feeds us. Remembers there is no SA to the south of us to run to when the food runs out!!

  • Brad.Kopping - 2012-05-31 18:53

    So in essence...every bla...sorry i mean "AFRICAN" gets a farm? Yes that makes ALLOTTT of f***g sense. this anc government makes me sick to my core >:(

  • glen.e.huysamer - 2012-05-31 18:54

    Can it be time for white farmers to show the result of non production, is it not time for white farmers to explicitly show what the result of non production would be like in South Africa. Land issues is a hot potato which politicians love to throw around, maybe it is time white farmers stop growing patato's then there will be nothing to throw around. It is all very well making the speech, has the time not come to put money aside for a year or two and stop all production. Prove to the country how quickly a bag of maize can go up to a R100/per kilo. It might in the long run be a good investment for farmers not to produce because it will fix the price of goods at a much higher rate over a two year period thereby eventually ensuring that when there is a return to production that any losses will be expediently recouped. Like the fixing of the oil price, farmers should start their own 'Opec.'

  • avrilandandre - 2012-05-31 18:57

    When was the referendum where MOST (majority) whites actually voted for reform....? That says it all, and I firmly believe that mosty whites still wants reform, change, and a better life for ALL South Africans. Sure, there will be reprisals, wheather you like it or not, it is human nature. But I still believe the average South African citizen wants peace and quiet, and also a piece of the pie. What is also true, is that whilst the most "have's" perhaps lived in the aparteit era, and the most "don't have's" are still a legacy of that time, the balance is changing. It is then, when the scales tip to the other side, in the not so distant future, that our illustrious leaders will have to come up with another excuse for the current sorry state of affairs, one of them being the issue of land ownership....

  • steven.m.armour - 2012-05-31 19:09

    Floating down the river,we are riding the titanic.It's close to sinking now.Banana republic here we come

  • Shaun - 2012-05-31 19:25

    Sddddf

  • Jan - 2012-05-31 19:25

    Mr Steward, ask those who wrote the "green paper" to look around them at the rest of this continent and see... it is so clear and obvious to some. Was it not Kofi Anan who said this continent must learn to feed himself? Chase the whites of the farms and see. Hallo Mugabe's Zim - nett importer of food, once the bread basket of Southern Africa. Does ANC people have eye sight issues or are they just plane stupid? Do they realy believe giving today's commercial farms to the "previous" land owners will be a sucess here in SA, simply because we are different? They can not police the country, They can not clamp down on their own corruption, they can not stop rapings and murders..... how will they ensure the agricultural sector is runing well? They too busy with their own agendas and ternder corruption and expensive weddings and what ever. But so it should be. History will not be complete if SA does not becomes part of the stats ( 32 percent of African childeren are undernourished )Go for it ANC.. blame the Whites and the settlers for your own incapablities and incompetance! VIVA world food program !

  • Danie - 2012-05-31 19:37

    No you sound stupid, not luck, but a great deal of hard work not just office hours , but all hours not just 5 days / week but 7 days per week.It seam like 90% of black farmes have no idea what work is?

      bashin.monyela - 2012-05-31 19:50

      Why are you disguising a statement as a question, just say what you wanna say.

      Tamaranui - 2012-05-31 19:58

      90%.....Any Factual Evidence or just another ill-informed opinion ??

      sven.gohre - 2012-05-31 20:21

      @Tamaranui, well as 90% of all farms given over to Blacks under the Land Claim Program have failed, I would say that the statement is factually correct. That is of course not the case if you have the relevant facts to disprove the statement.

  • Abraham - 2012-05-31 19:41

    Do you remember 1913 that draconian land Act you forget that Africa must come forward to AFRICANS long live Mugabe and Mbeki

      Tax - 2012-05-31 20:06

      Mugabe is almost 90 soon he will be in hell where he belongs.

  • thando.ramncwana - 2012-05-31 19:48

    Im really stuck between a rock and a hard place on this issue, the black majority was given 13% of the entire land during the apartheid era and most of this land was untenable. That was an unjust policy in the part of the gov of the day......but to take away productive farms/mines from the white people in our democratic era is a bit unfair. I live in the rural areas where we are all black farm owners.....few of us are using that land productively, until we use the 13% we got from gov Im saying hands off to white farms....

      Tamaranui - 2012-05-31 20:02

      Thando, A Question ?? Would it be beneficial for a previously disadvantaged Farmer to work alongside a professional, financially viable Farmer and learn the entire skill-set required to replicate at another site ???

      thando.ramncwana - 2012-05-31 20:57

      Answer: Yes it would be beneficial, but im coming from the premace that we do have tenable land which we dont use as blacks commercially or otherwise......we do have gov programs to assist black farmers....but still its a bit difficult for them to be successful. Farming is a skill which needs passion and natures luck on yo side.....but the problem with my ANC is that these funds are given to cronies who have neither of the above besides mother nature's luck.

      Charnelle - 2012-05-31 21:38

      Yeah, farmers, black or white should really be judged on their ability to farm. We are going to be in a whole lot of trouble if this does not work out. Honestly a bit risky if you ask me.

      melania.nel - 2012-05-31 21:53

      You sir, seem to understand the bigger picture. The problem with farming is you have to have a nice little bunch of money until you can sell your produce(if it was a good year). I have mentioned in a comment above that there is so many farms and smallholdings for sale. Why would it be so difficult to start buying the available land and start the development already. All these proposals and talks are just prolonging the poor's suffering. That's just cruel. Help them now! They should also try and implement the youth subsidy into the agriculture together with other trade learnerships. There is so much opportunities and the guys in gov keep the people from their full potential.

  • Sidney Gilroy - 2012-05-31 19:51

    I am so tired of them. Give them the farms, the mines, the businesses...give them everything. We will come back in 30 years' time and buy the land back for NOTHING and employ those we want for NOTHING. Let it will be.

      Tamaranui - 2012-05-31 20:00

      Nothing............

      Sidney Gilroy - 2012-05-31 20:11

      Because there will be nothing. The whole of Africa is a failed state. It's a cycle of progress...destruction...progress...destruction. With the occasional war, coup or genocide inbetween . Whites are ignorent if they think SA will be any different. Its just a matter of time. And it will not be black against white. Whites will be collateral damage in the path to Black on Black civil war. Like the rest of Africa. It's so boring.

  • George - 2012-05-31 20:08

    The past is what the past is. No use rehashing it. Look forward, learn from the past and make a better future. That requires respect and consideration for all people by all people and adherence to the constitution. Only then will SA prosper. The government has a responsibility towards all the people not just the voting majority.

      Ngoako Kgathi - 2012-05-31 21:03

      Reading through the comments it's evident we're all pretty much f****ed. every action has a reaction that's unavoidable natural law and what the ANC seeks to do is simply balance out the equation and the more people like de klerk and them oppose this the more the force grows until inevitably it gets bloody, the more we see clowns like malema gain credence- its the way hitler seized power and its a cliche. i believe capitalism is the closest thing we have to fairness but for it to be effective all parties have to start on a equal footing- how to do that and avoid bloodshed i don't know

  • Zahir - 2012-05-31 20:15

    The food price will go sky high more food imports and poverty the anc seem to have the mugabe touch when it comes to govern

  • Rob - 2012-05-31 20:17

    If they want to restore the land to its original owners, then it can't go Xhosa or Zulu, rather Khoi, they were the original occupants before being displaced by the Xhosa who were pushed south and west by the Zulu - with both groups coming down from east Africa. This seems to of been conveniently forgotten by the current government...

  • Mike Purchase - 2012-05-31 20:21

    Excellent Rob,unfortunately government thinks that running a country is a joke,one that is going to backfire on them eventually.

  • Mike Purchase - 2012-05-31 20:30

    I believe that everyone should get a fair chance in life but to simply take and take and take is landing this country in big trouble.For most of us its not a skin colour thing but for the anc it is.Us tax payers have allowed the ruling party to become too big for its boots.

  • Konanani - 2012-05-31 20:47

    I m black and i am saying blacks r not realy gud @ farming and deeeep down we knw that,so y take a land that is providing 4 us?,and can the gvmnt plzz focus more on every sa citizens problem which is \crime \,oh no they r thugs too.

      melania.nel - 2012-05-31 22:02

      I would love for them to implement the youth subsidy into agriculture and other useful trades NOW. Farming is a mix between skill and passion. The people will know if they can do it or not when they have learnerships in the field. It won't help pushing them into the deep end. The gov should start buying available farms and smallholdings currently for sale and they should stop wasting time with talks and silly arguments. I pray for this country and I pray for future leaders with brains.

      marietjie.davel - 2012-06-07 02:19

      thank you konanani...can you please tell your people to stop voting ANC?

  • jacques.shepperson - 2012-05-31 20:49

    Politics are the source of racism. Yes, land was taken from people... and other people bought it... and where did the money go? Politicians salaries and fancy life styles. What is true yesterday is true today and so too tomorrow.

  • Charnelle - 2012-05-31 21:41

    I do believe that farmers balck or white should be judged on their ability to farm. We are going to have big issues if this goes cock-eyed. A bit risky, I think.

  • Charnelle - 2012-05-31 21:52

    I really hope that this does not happen. Honestly. Zimbabwe here we come.

  • shovels.kuierplek - 2012-05-31 22:00

    The one thing that no one ever mention is that there was a lot of White people that also lost their farms to the English Goverment . With the boer war and the big draught in and around 1922 , wish we can also claim our land back like some groups want to , Think about the chaos ,This families lost their farms and was never compensate for it at all .Must we now put a claim in against the English Goverment ? Or this Goverment ? This also happened to white farmers as well but is never mentioned at all . Just wonder why .......

      Charnelle - 2012-05-31 22:07

      Its like a never endign circle. Tit for tat. Imagine what the English Goverment will say to us? Hoenstly.

  • shovels.kuierplek - 2012-05-31 22:07

    This is simalar to the current BEE Policy that are one sided and unfair in terms that White company`s need to employ and train black but Black companies dont need to employ any other than their own . This is the same as apartheid and not diffrent to the apartheid system . Let black Companies comply also to the same act in terms of white and color employment and make the playfield level so we can operate as one unit , We need WEE as well as well as CEE

  • Chumscrubber1 - 2012-06-01 06:56

    A farmer myself, I am still confused as to why they want the farms in the first place, they never do anything on them once they own them. Its just ridiculous, maybe ideologically makes some sort of sense, but in reality nobody gains, everybody loses. Does the real world and real issues not matter to this regime?? Is it all just about revenge, no matter the cost to the future of this country??

      Rob - 2012-06-01 07:08

      Very well said Chum.