News24

Gun licences - most applicants denied

2011-02-16 19:06

Johannesburg - Gun licence applications are being refused despite applicants being in compliance with all requirements, the Gun Owners of SA (GOSA) said on Wednesday.

"Fifty percent of gun licence applications are being refused... applications for competency are being refused where applicants are fully in compliance with all proficiencies as prescribed by law and have no disqualifying criminal records!" said spokesperson Brett Nortje.

Nortje says the Firearms Register had shifted the burden of licensing firearms onto the Firearms Appeal Board as it was "an easy way to wipe out the Register's backlogs of up to six years".

He called this the "hugely expensive option" as applicants who were refused needed to seek legal advice and ask the courts to intervene.

"The Registrar inevitably settles such cases just before the hearing and pays the costs."

Nortje referred to police minister Nathi Mthethwa's admission late last year that the implementation of the Firearms Control Act (FCA) was a "disaster".

The act requires people who apply for firearm licences to undergo a competency test.

"The minister told the National Press Club at the Sheraton Hotel that he needed nine months to turn around the Central Firearms Register."

He said the minister had not disclosed a turn-around plan or how much the implementation of the FCA cost.

"Implementation of the FCA is a billion rand black hole," said Nortje.

Comments
  • Dion Goldie - 2011-02-16 19:15

    Do I hear the anti-gun lobby shouting hooray? The sad part about this is that the anti-gun and the firearm agnostics are not particularly worried about our rights to own a firearm! I wonder how happy they will be when we dont support their rights when government wants to take away something they are passionate about......freedom being one.

      darkwing - 2011-02-16 19:30

      Couldn't agree more. Also gives impetus to certain groups saying that government wants to disarm whites. All this will do is force people into criminal activity by keeping an unlicensed firearm. I don't have one as I'm scared of the damn things, but if I decided to get one I know I would never get a legitimate firearm.

      Grant - 2011-02-16 19:31

      Why do you think they want to take the guns away? Its easier running a dictatorship over people who cant fight back ;)

      william.botha - 2011-02-16 19:38

      Gun free SA is a bunch of whack jobs. A gun free SA will result in the public being sitting ducks. Anyways, most licensed firearms stolen is from SAPS. If there was a law that each citizen where to carry a firearm, crime would just about vanish. Imagine bank robbers trying to hold up a bank full of armed citizens.

      Mebob - 2011-02-17 07:47

      I don't have a problem with a gun free society. I have a problem with the fact that it is so easy for criminals to get guns and so cheaply.Most guns are in police custody that are sold for easy cash by the cops themselves.Guns like the R5 rifle.I am no expert but is this not a state issued gun?Then all those guns that cross the borders so easily because there is no-one to guard the borders.But you also hear of so many guns getting stolen from homes by maids or burglars.There are also too many careless owners and that is where the competancy test comes in. This act was not very carefully though of and rushed into process and hence the huge backlog making years of waiting.

      BigMoose - 2011-02-17 09:16

      Memories of Dingaan and Retief. Piet, just leave your guns outside the kraal. We will look after them for you. Let's talk about your Nkandla. roflmao

      dave.learmont.5 - 2013-02-06 16:43

      Speaking of 'black holes' where have you been all of these years since you handed your petition, 350,000 names of people objecting to the FCA, which has to date stripped thousands of people of their only means of defense in SA. Look at other countries that have pushed through gun bans, the UK is a prime example, their violent crime rare is now the highest in Europe, much higher than the USA or SA, visit; http://soundmoneysa.co.za/2013/01/video-why-the-dangerous-weapons-bill-will-strip-civilians-in-south-africans-of-yet-another-layer-of-private-defence/ they (the ANC) are trying another approach,read and sign the petition.

  • william.botha - 2011-02-16 19:29

    Luvely! Can't take firearms with when emigrating, so it isn't a major train smash.

      jscholtz - 2011-02-17 10:43

      And to heck with the rest of the people I guess. Way to go.

  • Chibuli - 2011-02-16 19:31

    I smell a rat - a hugely incompetent one, but a rat nevertheless. I think it's time for a parliamentary or independent commission to look into this. The situation shouldn't NEED turning around, let alone nine months to do so. There's more to this than meets the eye.

      LUFC - 2011-02-16 20:43

      I know what you are thinking

      Crimefreeza - 2013-02-09 08:19

      It's actually time citizens got annoyed and spoke up instead of mumbling to themselves.

  • k1dbl4ck - 2011-02-16 19:43

    great... guns... just what we need.

      nixcroft - 2011-02-17 07:20

      yes. guns, just what we need. To be able to protect ourselves, our families and possessions we WORK for. I would rather have a gun for 20 years and never need to use it than not have one tomorrow and need it. So you would rather NOT have a firearm and watch how they rape and beat your wife and daughter ? Or would you want a gun at that time to shoot the motherf#$#r to hell.

  • kznsc - 2011-02-16 19:57

    I wonder what the money that these gun owners paid to get their licenses are used for? Cele's house maybe? Or how much is still left? No maybe they under budgetted and the state must pay them a couple of million. Could that be what is going to come to light next?????

  • Sizwe - 2011-02-16 20:08

    This is ridiculous, one of the major aspects of FCA was to regulate the large number of firearms (legal) in the country, but it was never meant to totally disarm citizens. Why are they not using the simple rule of thumb: one should atleast upon meeting all requirements, be granted a handgun licence for self-defence purposes, the other factors such as recreation and collecting will be handled after the back-log has been cleared?? Surely all who like me are still struggling with this inane system will agree that self-defence category should be a priority case for existing applications and other applications will be handled after the self-defence categpry.

      lotus.lindi - 2011-02-16 20:39

      Agreed: This is ridiculous. Disagree: "It was never meant to totally disarm citizens." Of course it was. Marxist governments ALWAYS disarm their citizens. A responsible family member who once shot for his country (sport)and has always owned a gun, finally threw in the towel last year just after cementing in his safe and complying with all the other regulations. He said "It's just not worth it!" and handed in his gun. I suspect he will live to regret his choice, but it is, without doubt, the choice the government wanted him to make. I'm sure you've noticed that the government couldn't give a continental fig for the personal safety and security of SA citizens (unless they're gov officials that is, when you'll notice they need multiple bodyguards with guns). So, no, sadly the government doesn't care that you need a gun for self-defence. Sorry.

  • Oukaapje - 2011-02-16 20:09

    The vexatious Firearms Control Act was clearly never intended to protect the law abiding or comabat crime. The predicted results have been achieved and are now common knowledge. Law abiding citizens disarmed and thrown to the wolves. False promises of Police protection against crime exposed. Incompetence? No govt could be as incompetent as the SAPS are pretending to be regarding the implementation of the FCA. It can be nothing less than a deliberate campaign driven by the ruling politicians behind the scenes. We see daily confirmation of these politicians demonstrating their immunity and disrespect of laws and even law courts. Crime rules the Republic of South Africa. It cannot tolerate the dangers posed by crime victims to the privelaged lives of the endangered criminals who vote exclusively for their protectors. No it's not about colour creed or race. It's all about the rule of crime. In our Gangsterocracy, Law and order is nothing but a mockery. Law abiders respect all laws no matter how ridiculous. What a pleasure for the lawmakers. More laws are provided as a culture of self inflicted victimhood hammers the honest people into total submission such that they blame themselves for being victims and withdraw from even excercising the most basic democratic right, the right to vote. Perhaps, in our depths of apathy, we deserve to have our rights to life and self protection to be so eagerly demolished as our rulers are doing with such gusto.

  • daspoort - 2011-02-16 20:16

    For a act to be successful, it should be implemented correctly, fairly and have a visible impact on society. The reason for this law was 1) to take illegal guns out of the system 2) to take guns away from criminals. Now how many guns go missing from police stations? We all know that this act is a joke. The opposition (ie DA - there is no other opposition with balls) better have the stats ready from before and after the act and hammer the ANC and all dumbass idiots who decided to implement this act in parlement with questions about this.

  • gideonj.vandermerwe - 2011-02-16 20:36

    I can Confirm the headline Statement 100% I am a Dedicated Hunter and Dedicated Sportsman with 3x Organisations and Competency in Shotgun/Handgun/Rifle 5x Firearm licences have been declined as well as 2x Temporary licences that I need for the Nationals later in the year. I will probably have to wait 6 months for the letter explaining why it was declined, where it can actually not be declined under any circumstances! I am a current firearms owner with existing licences in different categories than the licences I applied for. I will be suing the CFR shortly, cost will in 100% of cases be for the SAP.. I will at least make my attorney happy.. Gidsie

  • Wouter - 2011-02-16 20:40

    I've heard a rumour that there's a backlog of 97 000 licences to be printed, but there's a shortage of working card printing machines. More money needed asseblief. Nobody knows how much this farce has cost, but we all know what the benefit to society's been... net mooi fniks.

  • croix - 2011-02-16 20:46

    ..."that the implementation of the FCA was a disaster" - Frankly, Mr Minister, the entire effort at running the country is turning out such. Please ask Mr Manyi to quiz your fellow-ministers and report on any of their 'well-run' portfolios - is even ONE success we can celebrate? We are very, very disappointed at your collective best effort. The people of SA needed you guys to step up to the plate and make our lives better - i.o.w. to just do your bloody jobs. But noooo - all you guys did was to get your grubby paws on inappropriately huge salaries/perks - and bugger the rest! You are all failing to make the grade. The simple process of gun licensing is a case in point. Boy, did you make tons of money out of it - but what an epic failure.

  • Trevor - 2011-02-16 20:51

    What amazes me is that ANC cronies thinks banning guns will sort out all their problems,whatever those problems are....last time guys broke into my house, I chased them down with my 4x4 bakkie with steel intergrated Burnco bumper....you wanna ban my vehicle now??? I have so many knives in my house...I have a "paintball" gun that fires everything but paint....given a head shot or "more" will kill for sure, I have a pick handle lieing in my garage, soul purpose is to defend my family so you.....ANC...you going to ban them all? You don't need a gun to kill you idiots.......

      LBS - 2011-02-17 15:35

      How about giving us some private lessons. :-)

  • Nuusleser24 - 2011-02-16 21:00

    And I know of a man with a family violence interdict against him owning 5 legal firearms. His ex wife who he has threatened did not see fit to testify for him and now he has his licence. The police station commander knows his history. When you phone and give his name - they say "what has he done again" ?????

      Wouter - 2011-02-16 21:09

      Yup Nuusleser that's the kind of thing the new act is *supposed* to prevent. It's just that... they can't get it right. So there are cars on the road smoking like something's on fire. The response to this is to force everyone to take yearly (or whatever) emissions tests... erm... the problem is with *that* car. I can *see* it. Pull *that car* over and test the pipe, tow the thing if it's over the limit. What's that? Oh! Yes, it won't make as much money as mandatory testing? I see... When there's new legislation in the making, ALWAYS FOLLOW THE MONEY.

      jay.kganyago.5 - 2013-02-05 18:50

      An interdict doesn't mean anything, they are highly abused, especially during divorces. http://www.capetownlawyer.co.za/violence/domestic/abusing-protection-order.php You can get one just by falsely claiming someone threatened you, with no evidence.

  • Wayne - 2011-02-16 21:35

    YEAH RIGHT AND IN THE MEAN TIME THE FARMERS AND INNOCENT LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS JUST KEEP GETTING SLAIN !!!!

      jay.kganyago.5 - 2013-02-05 18:51

      This also affects law-abiding black people, under the old government we were denied licenses, now under the new government we again denied licenses :(

  • Richard - 2011-02-16 21:37

    I don't think they know what they are doing or what they want. I appled for 3 licences in 2005, received all 3 last month.

      Red Baron - 2011-02-17 17:51

      I still have not received mine

  • Dan Wesson - 2011-02-16 22:39

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8

  • Dan Wesson - 2011-02-16 22:40

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8

  • henterkriel - 2011-02-16 22:43

    Fear the government who fears your guns!

  • Mike - 2011-02-17 00:23

    Whats even better is the fact that people giving out the licenses are from Gun Free South Africa ....... they not real policemen or woman, soooo whats does that tell you? And yes our ruling party are all communist trained commissars who follow Marx and believe that when you over throw a government by violent action, you must disarm your citizens that they too don't over throw you ..... nice

  • Martha - 2011-02-17 07:32

    Martha Dean A Gun Free South Africa? No! Self-Defence is your right. Get tough on guns - the illegal ones. ACDP has and will continue to support the right of law-abiding citizens to own and carry arms in self-defence and in defence of their families, and will continue to oppose legislation that invades this right. The use of fire-arms for hunting and sport is also supported by the ACDP. In supporting this right and freedom, the ACDP recognise that with this freedom comes a great responsibility. Punish those who ABUSE!Give rights to those who USE! ANC has been trying to disarm law abiding citizens since they came into power. Wonder why? Rest of Africa good example. I vote ACDP!

  • marthinus100 - 2011-02-17 07:33

    Crime in South Africa is a huge income to government. There are thousands of jobs in the "security" sector. Government will never fight crime as long as there is money to be made and jobs created. That's why there is not a death sentence anymore.

  • marthinus100 - 2011-02-17 07:45

    Crime in South Africa is a huge income to government. There are thousands of jobs in the "security" sector. Government will never fight crime as long as there is money to be made and jobs created. That's why there is not a death sentence anymore.

      unrealchris - 2011-02-17 11:06

      Also the fact that you have to replace again what ever was stolen, then they get their VAT on that again as well. Double income for government and we are the losers, once again.

  • Bman_01 - 2011-02-17 08:54

    I dont own a gun and I prefer it that way its a security risk the first thing criminals look for is a safe and then guns. Another thing to keep in mind is kids even with a locked safe they figure out where the key to the safe is. When I was in primary school there were some kids that got suspended for bringing daddies gun to school. Im not all anti gun if it was up to me Farmers would be armed with R5 and a dozen hand grenades and some limpid mines.

      jscholtz - 2011-02-17 11:11

      Good reason to carry a firearm on your person - not in the safe. Firearm accidents are sad, but in the grand scheme of things accidents are few and far between. Give a thought to the millions of firearm owners who managed to kill exactly nobody today. Guns are used in a defensive role each and every day.

      Oukaapje - 2011-02-17 15:23

      Guns are not for everyone. It's best to have grown up in a mature "gun culture. Any one with mental problems and histories of violence should not be allowed to own a gun. All others should carry as often as possible and learn how to be aware of danger in order to respond effectively. Someone has to oppose the rule of crime we live under. Cops are more likely to be part of it than oppose it and very unlikely to risk their lives to protect ours.

  • MJ - 2011-02-17 09:42

    The FCA is a disgrace, both in its content and in its implementation. It clashes with our Constitutional Rights! It allows the police to raid your home on mere suspicion that there might be illegal firearms on the premises! It allows to assume your guilt before any proof is provided. It is widely open to the abuse by police. And no, you do not have to be a gun owner to suffer from the FCA. So all the people who say I don't have a gun the FCA is not my worry are blind to the facts. Just imagine the scenario: your neighbour who doesn't like you phone the cops and anonymously says that he saw a lot of guns in you house. He may be even so bad to throw some ammunition in the bushes in your garden. The police raid your home and find the ammo. In the light of the FCA you are automatically regarded and the owner of the (illegal) ammunition and charged. And I even do not say anything about the FCA effectively denying the most basic right to self-defence in the crime-ridden country, because all the other comments already focused on this. This Act is disgrace!

  • Red Baron - 2011-02-17 16:33

    One of the first one to apply, still have receive no licence. I am a registered sportsman and hunter and it is only for 2 guns. Make it easy to steal from you.

  • the kid! - 2011-02-17 18:32

    I was denied a licence to own a firearm for self defence, Monday I was attacked by a srewdriver wielding robber, who tried to stab me. I am lucky to be alive. He got away to attack someone else who might not be so lucky. If I had recieved my licence, he would now be in jail and not roaming the streets looking for another victim.

  • Gunsite - 2011-02-19 00:52

    See my original comment was removed, however we have certainly noticed a marked increase in refusals recently. There is currently a thread running on the site with regard to refusals. Please make a post if you have been affected.

  • Pragmatist - 2011-02-21 00:19

    So why has it taken three years for the SAPS to do nothing on my applications for "new" licenses for the guns I ALREADY HAVE?? Owning a gun is a basic human right.

      jay.kganyago.5 - 2013-02-05 18:53

      I don't understand your thumbs-down, owning a gun is a basic human right (except for violent people).

  • trevor.green.9256 - 2013-02-07 11:32

    Gave up on my application after 4 years

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