News24

Hawks decision on Livni welcomed

2011-01-20 14:09

Johannesburg - The SA Jewish Board of Deputies has welcomed the Hawks' decision not to obtain an arrest warrant for alleged war crimes against Israeli foreign minister Tzipi Livni for her planned, but now cancelled visit to South Africa.

"The [SAJBD] welcomes the decision by the Hawks to turn down the request for the issue of a warrant of arrest for Tzipi Livni, as a victory for rule of law over political intimidation," the board said on Thursday.

She was chief negotiator in the Middle East peace talks until 2009 and was "deeply committed" to finding solutions there, it said.

Stifling her was tantamount to fighting against peace, they continued, adding that they looked forward to hosting her in the future.

3 000 page document

The Media Review Network and the Palestinian Solidarity Alliance had submitted a request for her arrest during her visit to South Africa, which had been at the invitation of the SAJBD, for her alleged role in the Gaza war of 2008 and 2009.

Her visit, supposed to have begun on Wednesday, was cancelled due to labour issues in Israel.

Hawks spokesperson McIntosh Polela said Hawks head Anwa Dramat decided against the request, which was supported by a 3 000 page document, because the "highly complex" matter required a thorough investigation and contact with the Israeli cabinet over her alleged role in the war.

Livni's trip would be rescheduled for later in the year, said the board.

Comments
  • Pop Idol - 2011-01-20 14:19

    "The SA Jewish Board of Deputies has welcomed the Hawks' decision...." Fair enough,but,if these people love Israel so much,then why dont they move there? What are they doing in our countries? We cant emigrate to Israel even if we all had Phd degrees.

      pop101 - 2011-01-20 14:40

      Jip, I love Hawai, but I won't move there. In the words of Ferdie: "k@k redenation"

      Dee Kisela - 2011-01-20 14:43

      "These people?" Why the need for such vitriol? The Jewish people here are as South African as you are and have been here for a long time. This is just as much their country as yours. This love for Israel is a very important, and deep connection that isn't exclusively about the land itself but also about the spiritual importance it has. As a Jew, one's identity is always somehow tied to Israel, but where you were born and live also holds a very big and legitimate place in your heart. It's perfectly acceptable to be a Israel-loving Jew while calling South Africa, France, Japan, Brazil or Australia your home.

      Pop Idol - 2011-01-20 14:49

      @Dee Kisela, Its impossible to be loyal to two wives.

      Dee Kisela - 2011-01-20 14:55

      @Pop Idol You are right. One or the other will suffer. Hence why you have Jews who love Israel in a symbolic way but are very firmly tied to their birth nations, while you have Jews who decide to make aliyah. For those who do not go and live in Israel, the birth nation is home and it's their country as much as the non-Jew citizens'.

  • brentonwoodward - 2011-01-20 15:04

    fraidycat...it is not about money! It is about doing the right thing. I think the Hawks have done the right thing here. If we go around arresting people at leisure I am sure nobody will come to South Africa who has influence. Tzipi Livni doen not deserve the treatment she has received from South Africa and unfortunately this just puts another black spot on the international acceptance of South Africa. It does definately not mean that if you are jewish you are going to pay people off. Pop Idol, thank goodness not every Dick, Tom and Harry can immigrate to Israel, that is what makes Israel the country it is. Why should they accept everyone and defile the land of Israel? Every other country sitting with immigrants from all over only anarchy and turmoil. That is the home for the Jewish people, as we can see from the blogs, the jewish people are not welcome and very well liked, so that is their home where they don't have to accept, listen or be ridiculed by people that blog against them. You are welcome to visit there, and you will be warmly received, and it is sad that you feel the way you do. My opinion is if you don't like a jewish person, don't bad mouth them, jewish people don't bad mouth non jews.

      dubloki - 2011-01-20 15:16

      With you, generally... as long as the Jews learn to share the country they invaded twice, with the Palestinians, as equals, in peace.

      Pop Idol - 2011-01-20 15:17

      "jewish people don't bad mouth non jews" REALLY? HAHAHAHA,,,,so what about Chabad Lubavitch which states that non-jews are sub human ? Rabbi Yitzak Ginsburg said that if a jew needs an organ,he can steal it from a non Jew,or how about a rabbi which states that sperm from a non jew leads to barbaric offspring? http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2C7340%2CL-4006385%2C00.html Strange statements u make there.

      Souf Efrican - 2011-01-20 15:33

      Apart from the other crap, he states 'you will be warmly received' hahaha, what a load of u know what! you will be received by apartheid police with a loaded gun in your face! No wonder they are the most despised of people...

      Dee Kisela - 2011-01-20 15:38

      @Pop Idol Can you refer me to that Chabad Lubavitch statement? As for comments made in the article you linked, I think that the views expressed by Rabbi Dov Lior were wrong. There are plenty of non-Jews who follow Noahides principles and who are good people. I think what he was trying to emphasise is the fact that, according to the 13 Principle of the Jewish Faith and Halacha, it is forbidden for a Jew to marry and have children with a non-Jew for spiritual reasons which can then manifest physically. This is a disaster when viewed especially from an Orthodox Jewish point of view. @brentonwoodward Everyone badmouths everyone, regardless of their religious beliefs. There are good Jews and there are bad ones, just as as there are good and bad Gentiles. Jews have been persecuted for millenia now, but they're still here, aren't they? Hashem is keeping His promises.

      Pop Idol - 2011-01-20 15:40

      @South Efrican,,,They wanna come with this crap that THEIR enemies are also OUR enemies. Place all the Jews in Israel,withdraw all our troops from iraq and afghanistan and then u will see an end to Islamic terrorism in our countries.

      Souf Efrican - 2011-01-20 16:06

      @Popidol - As a black South African, I am dutibound to voice my outrage wherever there is oppression and wherever apartheid is practiced. It's amazing that people who supposedly were almost wiped out by the Nazi's are now perpertrating crimes against humanity that are either on par or outweigh those perpetrated by Nazis themselves.

      Dee Kisela - 2011-01-20 16:07

      @Pop Idol Islamic terrorists are not after Jews exclusively. They'll go after anyone who does not espouse their views. In their minds, it will only come to an end once they've subdued everyone on the planet.

      pop101 - 2011-01-20 16:27

      I didn't know we had troop in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pop Idol, you speak of our countries - why don't you go back to your countries? Souf Efrican, have you ever thought that the reason they were nearly wiped off the face of the earth by the Nazis is the exact reason why protect them selfs so aggressively. In the voice of G Bush: You can fool me once, the joke's on you, you can fool me twice, the joke......you can't fool me twice.

      Pop Idol - 2011-01-20 16:42

      @Dee Kisela, Strange statements u have made.Regarding the Chabada Lubavitch link u require,i take it you are familiar with "the Tanya" ,which states that non Jews are sub human. Your statements are full of "ifs and buts".You are confusing this brand of Judaism with the old ORIGINAL Judaism of 2000 plus years ago.Even King David's greatgrand mother was a non-Jew and her descendents was one of the greatest Kings israel has had.What is worrying is that your Rabbis are saying these things.If an ordinary jew in the street said this,i would brush it off,but your teachers are saying these things and teaching jews this nonsense,no wonder theres no peace in Israel and Palestine. Not all Jews have been here for millenia as most Jews converted to Judaism,so u cannot say that "Hashem" is keeping his promise.And by the way,all Jews that are descendents of Israel have non-Hebrew blood such as Falasha and Sephardic jews,so I find it very scary that your Rabbi states that the sperm of non Jews leads to barbaric offspring,very scary indeed.

      Pop Idol - 2011-01-20 16:45

      @Pop101,,,I was talking about Christian soldiers,dying unneccesarily for Israel.

      Dee Kisela - 2011-01-20 16:51

      @Pop Idol I know of the Tanya but I have not yet begun studying it - I'm at the beginning of the conversion programme. "Even King David's greatgrand mother was a non-Jew and her descendents was one of the greatest Kings israel has had." Anyone can become a Jew by converting and once they have converted, they are 100% Jewish and can marry and have children with a Jew-by-blood. In a sense, every Jew "converted" to Judaism: "What makes a Jew a Jew? This is the story: Before Sinai, there were no Jews.14 Yes, there was Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Rebecca, Jacob, Leah and Rachel. Yes, there were the Children of Israel who G-d redeemed from bondage. But they were not the Jewish people as we know them after Sinai. At Sinai, something irreversible happened. Before Sinai, the Jewish people were similar to other people: They were a collection of individuals, mostly related to one another, bonded by an assortment of factors such as family, culture, dress, beliefs, traditions, etc. At Sinai, a bond happened. All those people become a single whole." http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3002/jewish/How-Does-One-Convert-to-Judaism.htm Read this and perhaps we can discuss this further - I might have misunderstood...

      Pop Idol - 2011-01-20 16:58

      @Dee Kisela, "In a sense, every Jew "converted" to Judaism: "What makes a Jew a Jew? " Incorrect there. A jew (hebrew) is a race of people and people who convert,convert to the Jewish faith,this is why they even discriminate against converts by not allowing them to marry a Cohen or a Levy and this is why atheist Jews from the USSR were allowed to gain Israeli citizenship.As for converts,the laws of immigration were only amended way after Israel was formed.

      Dee Kisela - 2011-01-20 17:14

      @Pop Idol I'm going at this from a spiritual point of view, so maybe we're going to see this differently no matter what... But another point is that a Jew-by-birth doesn't have to believe in G-d to be a Jew whereas the point of a Jew-by-choice is that he or she usually decides to convert based on faith...! Anyway, thanks for your insights!

      Ibo - 2011-01-20 17:37

      @Brentonwoodward: don’t try to be smart and think we are fools. WHY Livni didn’t deserve to be arrest like a normal criminal as she is??? By the way who told her to come our country? Tell her that she is NOT WELCOME HERE. she is a criminal, she is a big suspect by international laws and as I said in the other forum that, going through the well documented Goldstone report is enough to arrest any Israel Government official when that genocide happened in 2008/9. This Livni lady was about to get arrested last time in London but lucky she didn’t come up, and from that time up to now she didn’t dire to go there. South Africa is a well recognised country in the international arena much ‘much better than even the apartheid-Israel itself. If we did this, we jail her, we could show that we are serious and not joking on international fugitives. She is criminal and she must be treat as she is otherwise they must stop killing innocents after they stole the land of the innocents. Just look at what happen even today: the Israel terrorist army killed an innocent 65 years old man. And now they are saying they are very sorry because it was mistake. How can we people of the world allow things like this keep happening?

      pop101 - 2011-01-20 20:30

      PA Sermon: Muslims Will Rule the World, Jews Are a Virus Charles Johnson Tue May 17, 2005 In a Friday sermon (khutba) broadcast by official Palestinian Authority television on May 13, 2005, Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris told the Muslim brothers that one day Islam will rule America, Britain, and the entire world—and wipe out the Jews.... Imagine an Israeli saying the same thing.

  • Vincent VUsi - 2011-01-20 16:10

    What about Okah? Is it because he is fighting a just cause for the poor? He was arrested without being physically involved in bombing - I'm tempted to agree that South Africa is a banana republic which also pliable.

  • Clive - 2011-01-20 16:33

    This whole thing stinks of hypocrisy. I also get annoyed at the Israeli government at times, especially their tendency to over-react. But when you are repeatedly threatened with being wiped off the map, one can understand it. And, let's face it: compared to the nations that make these threats, Israel is a roaring democracy. Its enemies are a motley collection of absolute monarchies, theocracies, emirates, and other authoritarian states, with not another democracy in the region. Yet their leaders are allowed to visit SA and no one threatens to have them arrested for undemocratic acts. Archbishop Tutu - a man I have admired for many years - needs also to be asked why he expects Israel to conform to the highest standards of human rights while not demanding the same of Arab states in the Middle East.

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