News24

Joburg metro could lose R1bn

2011-06-15 08:06

Johannesburg - The Johannesburg Metro Police Department (JMPD) could lose about R1 billion because it has not followed Aarto regulations properly, The Star newspaper reported on Wednesday.

Since June last year, the JMPD has been sending infringement notices to motorists by post instead of by registered mail. This makes them invalid.

Section 30 of the Administration Adjudication of Road traffic Offences (Aarto) Amended Act stipulates that infringement notices must be personally served or be sent by registered mail to the last known address of people who have infringed the law.

But the JMPD has continued sending infringement notices via surface mail and not registered mail.

Director Gerrie Gerneke was quoted saying that postage fees of R18 per notice for registered mail would be too high a cost for the JMPD. He said the law enforcement agency issued close to 430 000 infringement notices a month.

Spokesperson Superintendent Wayne Minnaar told the newspaper that the department had been sending notices via surface mail because offenders receiving registered mail had not been aware they were getting traffic fines.

Comments
  • enstin - 2011-06-15 08:27

    about time justice takes its cause... enforcing the law doesnt make you the law... JPSA fought long for the infringers rights, big upz..

      BigD - 2011-06-22 10:36

      I agree with you. But the JMPD has a point. They are supposed to send out the notices under aarto using registered post at a cost of R18. But the normal post is R2.70. As it stands many peoples addresses are wrong on the eNaTIS. So why waste 430,000 X R18 = R7,740,000 versus 340,000 X R2.70 = R1,161,000. I do think that the whole aarto system is ill conceved. The motorist is forking out this money or should I say the motorist wth correct info on eNaTIS. Until the do a RICA on all vehicles in SA this aarto will never work.

      Azwimpheleli - 2011-06-22 14:50

      JMPD is not a profit organisation, most of this tickets are invalid any way.

  • Glen - 2011-06-15 08:29

    Thats ayoba, just cancell all the tickets and start afresh

  • Goose - 2011-06-15 08:29

    The JMPD adds zero value to SA anyway, if they disappeared today, we would not even miss them as they do bugger all and in fact things would run more smoothly! They do not direct traffic at critical intersections when needed(a private company has to do this), they do not chase and stop moving violations. When you in fact DO...happen to see them, they are either stuffing bribed KFC into their grubby mouths, or soliciting a bribe, or being a nuisance to law-abiding citizens.

      Pencilgraffiti - 2011-06-15 08:57

      Exactly... I haven't seen the JMPD do ANYTHING that serves the country or flow of traffic in years.. The OUTsurance pointsmen do far more than they ever have. I used to hate the metro cops but still have respect for the SAPD but now i have lost that too. Seems the SAPD has seen the life of luxury that the JMPD have and want to follow suit. Get comfy, get fat, get rich... and if someone opposes that - Get aggressive.

      Gazza69 - 2011-06-15 09:38

      The only time you see a Metro cop pulling vehicles over, is around lunch time so they can bribe money for Chicken Licken.......

      umlaut - 2011-06-15 14:03

      Yes they are the pepper spray brigade when you don't want to play "the Game"

      Worldwise - 2011-06-15 16:24

      Interesting that they allow a private company to direct traffic as the Road Traffic Act prescribes that only a Traffic Officer or Policeman in uniform may direct traffic. Even Soldiers may not direct traffic, never mind cycling/road running race marshalls.

      umlaut - 2011-06-15 22:17

      worldwise@@-its part of the chaos in this country-but we seem to be in desparate times and maybe this unlawful case is "under control"

  • Welleducated - 2011-06-15 08:35

    No need for fines, a special private "donation" works in SA. Usually R50 or R100 gets a person off. I recommend the Metro concentrate their efforts on Taxis and yellow lane drivers and give spot fines. They would make and save millions a month.

      50something - 2011-06-15 08:45

      Spot fines = bribery and corruption

  • bakkies - 2011-06-15 08:37

    This can be a job creation project. Appoint various companies to deliver notices and paid them on a commission basis.

      Mark - 2011-06-15 09:20

      But summons are generally served by people/organisations not permanently employed by JMPD, metro and EMPD. This infact costs more than registered mail.

      Worldwise - 2011-06-15 16:36

      Sorry. The law states that a summons has to be served directly against a signature to the person intended by the Sheriff of the Court. No private individual may serve a summons. A summons may not be served by registered mail. The registered mail delivery that the article refers to is for an "Infringement Notice". This is not worth the paper it is written on and has no legal status. People get scared and pay up when they see the worthless "Infringement Notices". Only you can admit guilt or a court can find you guilty. Advice to me from the Sheriff of the court; - Wait to pay the fine until I serve the summons on you. Only then are they going to prosecute. Most cases will never make it to court as they don't have the capacity and most cases are on a shaky legal basis. They cannot issue a warrant of arrest until you ignore the summons issued by the Sheriff. Read the Road Traffic, Criminal Procedure, Sheriff's and Magistrates Court Act people! If you know your rights the law can't push you around! Watch the briber backpedal when he sees that you know the law. Wise up!

  • position08 - 2011-06-15 08:37

    Another poorly written piece of legislation, costing billions to implement. When will our government learn, new laws are only going to be effective if they will be governed properly and if citizens have the moral compass to obey them. At the moment, canceling a driving license because of a points system will not keep the majority of our morally challenged population from getting behind the wheel again and our police services are ill equipped to do anything about it.

  • Thor - 2011-06-15 08:39

    What about thedamn fines i have already paid. stupid stupid stupid

      Mariana - 2011-06-15 08:59

      Share your pain but HEY! At least we did the honourable thing - admitting our guilt & faced the consequences, how many can say that?

      Worldwise - 2011-06-15 16:38

      How do you know that you were actually guilty Mariana?

  • Dr. Zeek - 2011-06-15 08:40

    Fat, lazy and STUPID.

  • Zanu - 2011-06-15 08:41

    Headline is wrong! How can you 'lose' something you have stolen from the people?

      Martin du Plessis - 2011-06-15 10:05

      Some other ANC cadre steals it from you too. It's the great Circle of GRAFT!, except for us tax payers which have to keep shovveling in extra cash to keep it fat and going.

      senkgisha - 2011-06-15 14:43

      you've got the point hey?

  • Skeletor - 2011-06-15 08:42

    I think Wayne Minnaar is running for idiot of the day with that statement... So, if you receive a notice via surface mail, all you have to do is wait until they drag your behind to court, then when they ask you to explain yourself, say: But your honor, I received this via surface mail. Then case closed. Am I wrong in this??

      TonyC - 2011-06-15 09:47

      @Skeletor - the point is that you can actually DENY having received the notice because they have NO evidence whatsoever to prove that you did.:-)

      Martin du Plessis - 2011-06-15 10:07

      Hw you can NOT know you got the notice through registered mail is beyond me. They just don't want to spend the cash on it so they can steal it themselves.

      SA - 2011-06-15 10:34

      True I checked my fines on paycity.co.za during the taxi drivers dispute i.r.o AARTO as a whole, I was shocked with the number of outstanding fines<<<< amounting to R4800 this would have been R2400 with the so-called 50% 32days discount IF I've received it via registered mail. but in this case I haven't receive these fines at all even though Gerrie Gerneke insisted I did, (his reasoning were where do I got the amounts outstanding)I told him about the paycity website, he still played hardball. The Post Office couldn't prove that they infact did deliver the mails,but as stubborn as uniformed officials could be Gerrie didn't budge I then submitted AARTO08 and voila all my fines were cancelled!!!

      asitis - 2011-06-15 17:00

      Skeletor you moron, its like an IR issue. If you issue a notice to an employee to last known address it must be registered. Then you have proof that the mail was sent if the reciepient denies this. If they send it over surface mail, how can they prove you recieved it? fine, what fine should be your answer in court and vwala case closed. now go and do something with your life that requires some thought.

  • Trotse-Wit-Afrikaanse-Boer - 2011-06-15 08:42

    One Billion rand that is absurd, O and did they say who is responsible for this loss I think the ANC might be involved, I think the ANC is busy making R1 Billion Rand disappear again like they always make money go disappear in to thin air. It amazing how the ANC can make money disappear like that, and no one know where it has gone. Considering A Billion Rand is R1000,000,000.00 or a thousand million Rands. One R200 note according to my micrometer is 0,1mm thick. Ten of these (R2000) would be 1mm thick. A million Rand is 5000xR200 and about 0,5 metres high. So a million Rand in R200 notes will stretch to about your knee. That means that R1billion of R200 notes stack on top of each other would stand 500meter hight, now the Van Stadens Bridge is only 140m high, add another 360m to that, and you have got you 500m High stack of R200 notes coming to a R1billiion and the ANC can make dis mountain disappear with out any trace what so ever, I mean every South African with logic sees this happening all the time with every project undertaken in South Africa. Projects like the Arms Deal, Gautrain, Soccor Staduims, housing projects and money going missing at Municipality's all the time... The ANC think we are blind and corrupt like they are...

      BigD - 2011-06-22 10:42

      they say 430,000 fines a month. 430,000 X R300 X 12 = R1,548,000,000. Staggering amount.

  • gcr - 2011-06-15 08:43

    When they did send them by registered mail the PO sent you a slip to collect the registered letter - easy - just don't go and collect and the PO send it back to JMPD

      TonyC - 2011-06-15 09:52

      @gcr - not quite correct. The Post office keeps proof that they actually delivered the notice to you & they usually deliver a reminder if the first one is not responded to. As long as they can show that they delivered the notice to the same address that you gave on the fine, you can still be held accountable. Only when there's no registered mail & therefore no notice delivered by the Post Office, then there's no proof that you were notified.

      Martin du Plessis - 2011-06-15 10:08

      Indeed, the notification sent to you that you have registered mail is basically ENOUGH to prove you were informed that you have a fine/ect to pay. Ignoring registered mail helps in NO WAY at all.

      chingon - 2011-06-15 19:20

      @tonyc and Martin, no true dudes. Anyone can take a letter out of the letter box. Delivery is not proof of receipt. When you collect and sign for your registered mail, that is proof.

  • Smindlo - 2011-06-15 08:43

    why not make the fine the same as postage fee!! i thought JMPD is a non profit organisation!! where exactly does the money go, as the potholes are never fixed, trffic lights stop working when it rains and road signs are blurred due to lack of mantainance? who pockets the money? the ANC deployees!!!

  • VADERLAND - 2011-06-15 08:45

    Gosh does these people have no brains? You lose out a couple hundred rand in fine revenue in order to save R18 in postage. Freaking hell

      Martin du Plessis - 2011-06-15 10:09

      Eish, de math she is not easy!

      Blackmist_a - 2011-06-15 12:40

      Nothing changed from the corrupt and stupid old days

      York Hunt - 2011-06-15 13:22

      Verwoerd made maths difficult... Eish!

      BigD - 2011-06-22 10:44

      I did read that at first the JMPD did use this system and moneys paid into aart account. But they paid the R18 already, but the JMPD is waiting for the aarto to pay them for the fines etc. I think that is where this all went sour.

  • 50something - 2011-06-15 08:45

    ... and are the 5 mil fines per year making our roads safer - no!! It is just a money making racket, hitting the soft targets.

  • droplet - 2011-06-15 08:49

    seeing as the metro police should not be using fines as a budgetable source of income (they are there to discourage traffic offenders, not to turn a profit), the fact that they would "lose" R18 out of every fine should be of no consequence...

  • R Daniels - 2011-06-15 08:50

    Serves them right. What is the point of enforcing the law when you break it? Horrible hypocrites the lot of them. Do as I say not as I do. Everyone who received these fines have a civic duty NOT to pay them. I detest these money making schemes from gov departments.

  • Gandalf - 2011-06-15 08:52

    Yes, the logic in that statement also escaped me...

      Martin du Plessis - 2011-06-15 10:09

      You expect logic from these clowns?

  • Tony - 2011-06-15 08:52

    If your vehicle is registered to a company, the fine is automatically tripled. This is to encourage you to nominate the driver so the actual driver gets the demerits when this system comes into effect. I have had the documents certified by a commissioner of oaths and sent off registered post as per the rules, but none of them have ever been acknowledged, the fine states that if you have no response after 21 days you must re-send. Am I supposed to keep paying R18 for registered post until they decide to respond, I have checked with the post office tracking system and they have been collected. I now wait in fear of being pulled over by Metro and becoming some criminal's love-partner because AARTO are not doing their job!

      allie - 2011-06-15 09:00

      ANC government will make wonderful farmers.Everything they touch turns into compost.

      david - 2011-06-15 09:21

      Proof of delivery stands in law, whether they respond or not. After a set period, usually 21 days, they are legally deemed to have accepted the terms of your letter. Failure on their part is NOT a legal excuse, ergo keep the delivery receipts, and get them notarised. It is BECAUSE proof of delivery is legally accepted that AARTO required registered post. Ergo once you have collected the parcel from the post office unless you contest the claims therein within a certain period, then you are deemed to have accepted the suggested terms ... ie a R500 "fine" or whatever. On THAT basis you "consent" to any resulting legal action and decisions against you.

      SA - 2011-06-15 10:20

      Yes Tony, if you've submitted the AARTO08 forms via registered mail,even if they don't reply in most cases they won't (as it was in my case), you'll still receive a reply via registered mail in the form of a AARTO05 and thereafter AARTO09 stating that it was cancelled or otherwise,just keep your proof!!! In the end it will be their loss, i had numerous run-ins with Gerneke and in the end I won. Sterkte!!!

  • HadEnuf - 2011-06-15 08:56

    It costs R18 per infringement notice to use registered mail. Surely the smallest fine would be around R200. So while there is presumably a cash-flow issue until fines are paid, a steady revenue stream with massive returns would result if the fines were issued properly and it would soon solve the problem ! Suits me just fine.

  • Born To Fish - 2011-06-15 08:59

    Al of this reflects to the ANC and our Banana republic

  • Darryn Meise - 2011-06-15 09:08

    Complete incompetence!

  • Badger - 2011-06-15 09:09

    But they made MILLIONS on bribes, so what's the problem. Fat, Useless, KFC sucking scum !!!!!!!

  • shmangle - 2011-06-15 09:09

    Tough if it's too expensive! They came up with the laws, and then can't even follow them properly. This is what happens when you use the police force simply as a job creation tool, you wind up having it filled with morons who can't tie their own shoes.

  • M C - 2011-06-15 09:11

    Stupid is what Stupid was, what Stupid will stay

  • Giancarlo - 2011-06-15 09:12

    So what's the point? 100 Rand fine + 18 Rand service charges = 118 Rand total

  • Gloria - 2011-06-15 09:13

    Are they going to reimburse those that have paid their fines? I'm sure they are not, most people pay their fines promptly as you are too scared not to in case you get stopped in their very frequent roadblocks in JHB.....Would love to know where this money is going to

  • Tbot - 2011-06-15 09:15

    Great news of the day and this what I call it news then I received a ticket last year November in my address and was not registered mail then the law makes it invalid. Thanks to Aarto for the piece of lagislation am not paying a cent. JMPD I like you and I've scored this time around.

  • semaj - 2011-06-15 09:16

    Exactly, my question is I paid a fine, incurred in February, now will I get my money back? Fat chance, unless we all band together and sue the JMPD, who should have known better and not ignored the regulation. We of course should also know the regulations, but don't receive due notification of the fine print. Shame on you AARTO, you should be nailing the JMPD on our behalf.

  • crocoros - 2011-06-15 09:16

    Its not millions that disappear anymore, its billions. I believe those responsible for losing money of such vast amounts must be held liable and pay it back. Because it gets written off and no one takes responsibility or accountability its just so damn easy to get the money lost from the taxpayers. It is just so easy for the theives to get away with it. There should be a law that states you cost the country money due to negligence and incompetence you pay it back come hell or high water.

      Blackmist_a - 2011-06-15 15:48

      Celebrate and get off this critical nature. Wipe you biase and see the clear blue skies. You are winning!!

  • unrealchris - 2011-06-15 09:18

    Wonderfull, so the fines that I received of R500 each of driving a little over 7 in a 60 zone is not legal, Great news indeed. So JHB save R36 on the postage but they are losing out on a R1000. Makes sense to me. Ps, didnt intend to pay the fine in any case, would have waited for my day in court rather.

      Tbot - 2011-06-15 09:25

      Great news indeed.

  • I_Say - 2011-06-15 09:18

    The point is that R1bn is owed, and they're probably only receieving abut 10% in payments = R100m.... Spending R120 in the process is pointless.

  • Allin - 2011-06-15 09:22

    The headline is another journalistic masterpiece! "Lose" implies that the JMPD will have less than they had before. Not so, a large percentage of fines aren't paid in any case. "pokesperson Superintendent Wayne Minnaar told the newspaper that the department had been sending notices via surface mail because offenders receiving registered mail had not been aware they were getting traffic fines." So what did they think they received then? Performance bonuses?

  • garreth.vandenberg - 2011-06-15 09:22

    quick solution..... move to cape town!!!!

  • Wouter - 2011-06-15 09:35

    Don't worry they will make it up with chocho LOL!!!!

  • JESTER - 2011-06-15 09:37

    Once again we can see the brainless individuals who run these departments, yes its going to cost R18 per registered mail, but if included in the fine they will recover normally triple the amount, when the fine is paid. Secondly I would like to see how much is made yearly on fining people, and for trivial things, they need to sit down and aim at a certain traffic violation/s that they want to severely punish and then start hitting them hard and send out reg letters to those people, then once this offence starts to decline then go to the next troublesome offence, this way they are then REALLY trying to make the roads safer and not just a money making racket.

  • Gazza69 - 2011-06-15 09:39

    First of all, majority of Police and Metro are illiterate or improperly trained, so you get what you pay for!!!!

  • anti crime - 2011-06-15 09:41

    lol

  • TonyC - 2011-06-15 09:42

    Firstly, Registered mail is still "surface" mail - the difference is that the recipient has to collect & sign for it at a Post Office. Secondly, the argument of the cost being too high is utter nonsense! It's not only the Jo'burg Metro that is in breech of the law, most companies have taken to sending final demands via email or simple, unregistered snail-mail & this is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. The onus rests on the company to prove that the customer has, in fact, received the demand BEFORE they can take further steps. You cannot do this without obtaining a signed receipt for the demand. AND - the receipt MUST be signed by the person to whom the demand is addressed & NOT by anyone else. Therein lies the proof of receipt. NO COURT should be accepting a charge from a creditor without this irrefutable proof that the customer was given formal notice of the intent to take legal action. I hope the public takes heed of this case & that folks stand-up for their rights against the corporations that are taking short-cuts.

  • WoodworkPh.D - 2011-06-15 09:47

    Charge the Metro for defeating the ends of justice then

  • EPHRAIMINHO - 2011-06-15 09:49

    If u spend 18 on a postage...u probaly make it bak wen de fine is paid bak...so i don get why de department is complainin!

  • Richard Townley-Johnson - 2011-06-15 09:49

    What's amazing is that there are fines totalling close to R1 billion outstanding! This must surely be years of outstanding fines!? The traffic department is clearly inept at collecting.

  • peter - 2011-06-15 09:56

    The Star newspaper - you are a STAR.

  • Dropa - 2011-06-15 09:58

    elbie your comments made me laugh uncontrollably. You are 100% correct. As you pointed out in your first comment, JMPD decided to send notices via surface mail because offenders receiving registered mail had not been aware they were getting traffic fines. If I received a registered mail notice & went to the post office to collect it, it would mean there was a track record of me getting my fine. I’m getting a headache trying to be so stupid & come up with a reason to go back to the unregistered mailing format. On your second comment it seems they are planning to keep the unregistered surface mailing format for the next 8 years or so at a loss of R120m/year excl. annual inflation on the postal service.

      elbie - 2011-06-15 13:14

      It boggles the mind

  • dennis.young2 - 2011-06-15 10:06

    5.1 million notices per annum @ average R500.00 per notice, minus R120mil for postage still equals R246mil per annum in the JMPD coffers!

      elbie - 2011-06-15 13:23

      Dennis, calc wrong. More like R2.4bn, methinks. Which also means if the are only complaining of a R1bn "loss", that we suckers must have actually paid the remainder R1.4bn, and they don't really care about the rest.

  • Eric West - 2011-06-15 10:07

    Metro Cops don't understand AARTO. They are more skilled in the art of bribery!

  • SA - 2011-06-15 10:15

    I cancelled mine amounting to R4800 I am ashamed of the amount of infringements but JMPD also broke the Law by sending the fines via ordinary postage. I said before,this is not about Law Enforcement but the main objective is money-making!!!

  • Versace - 2011-06-15 10:21

    Good, I'm not gonna pay of the fines I have!!

  • Echo Bravo - 2011-06-15 10:21

    Just goes to show that "they are thicker than two bricks", blatantly skirting the law just to save a bit of postage, which is going where anyway is just plain B/S. If it comes by surface mail "Grip It Rip It" and throw it away, you didn't receive it anyway.

  • Kevin King - 2011-06-15 10:28

    Well I've seen R1b written off before (Cuba) so this is not a big deal.