News24

Jon Qwelane guilty of hate speech

2011-05-31 10:30

Johannesburg - Former Sunday Sun columnist Jon Qwelane was found guilty of hate speech by the Johannesburg Equality Court on Tuesday.

The court found that a cartoon in his column amounted to hate speech, and that both his article and the cartoon propagated hatred and harm.

The article was published in the newspaper on July 20, 2008, under the headline: "Call me names, but gay is NOT okay".

Qwelane was ordered to make an unconditional apology to the gay and lesbian community, and pay R100 000 to the SA Human Rights Commission.

Qwelane is currently South Africa's ambassador to Uganda, where an anti-gay bill that would have imposed the death penalty for homosexual acts was recently shelved, following international condemnation.

Comments
  • Lydon - 2011-05-31 10:35

    Excellent

      Mike - 2011-05-31 10:39

      Indeed! Even if it took almost 3 years, good to know justice has been served.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 10:42

      What exactly did he say that was called hate speech? Asking because the article doesn't say

      BlackSwan - 2011-05-31 10:48

      WTF! I don't wanna be called gay either! So you gonna sue me? We've become a nation of moaners and wimps!

      The Spear - 2011-05-31 10:52

      I remember him writing columns right here on News24.

      daaivark - 2011-05-31 10:52

      Ahem Matt: Paragraph 3: "Call me names, but gay is NOT okay"

      o Great one - 2011-05-31 10:54

      THIS IS A JOKE RIGHT

      daaivark - 2011-05-31 10:55

      Matt... with respect, it is not only a stupid question, but rather belligerent.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 10:55

      @ daaivark - but where is that hate speech? It refers to an article that they're not showing or even quoting. If you can be fined for saying you don't want to be called a name, then surely most of SA should be fined too?

      jowza - 2011-05-31 11:21

      the gays are gatvol

      I_ARE_BABOON - 2011-05-31 11:23

      You're sick in the head if it bothers you.

      Jaco - 2011-05-31 11:24

      Matt, (I believe) the article has since been removed, but Qwelane used to be a News24 columnist, and I remember how appalled I was at reading his anti-gay-piece. It was filled with venomous hate, not merely "don't call me gay". And no, I'm straight, if you wonder. I can't remember his exact words, so I won't try to quote Qwelane - not that I'd ever want to.

      stuart.steedman - 2011-05-31 11:29

      Hi @Revo, some reading matter for you mate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals There's been plenty of documented homosexuality in the animal kingdom. Whilst it's the exception rather than the rule, the same is true for humans. Have fun having your (mis)conceptions challenged!

      herbie198512 - 2011-05-31 11:32

      homosexuality is found in over 450 species. homophobia is only found in one. which one seems unnatural now?

      Lydon - 2011-05-31 11:33

      REVO, stop making idiotic comments. Homosexuality has been observed in over 1500 species...THAT'S where you see it in nature. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

      Stryder - 2011-05-31 11:33

      @REVO-Please see the following http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals. How do you feel about hot chicks getting stuck into each other?

      Jaco - 2011-05-31 11:38

      Dear lakhan, if you want to use nature to promote your point of view, then perhaps you should first study nature. Homosexuality is rather common amongst primates - our genetical cousins. Investigate this yourself if you don't believe me.

      John - 2011-05-31 11:43

      Rapists and murderers get R 5000 bail, and this guy gets R 100 000. Something is screwed in our legal system. Yes, he was wrong, but hell - who got hurt by his remark ? The courts need to prioritize cases....how can a statement be worse than the damage caused by a rape or murder ?

      Lionel - 2011-05-31 11:44

      It's nice to see the bigots ranting and raving about "unnatural" deeds. As usual, it is these types who need to come out of the closet.

      jowza - 2011-05-31 11:50

      the queens out in full force i see.bitching with hands flying all round

      MadMatt_88 - 2011-05-31 11:51

      The gays are gatvol - roflmfwao @ jowza

      OzzyInSA - 2011-05-31 12:59

      Wow, using Wikipedia as a reference to support your posts. Way to notch up credibility points.....NOT.

      BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-05-31 13:21

      @ Ozzy: More credible a source than say, The Bible - wouldn't you agree?

      Koos - 2011-05-31 13:33

      gay is not ok in african culture simple as that

      Andre Grobler - 2011-05-31 13:50

      Oh dear, here we go yet again. The Anglican Church is heading for a split in its ranks, and homosexuals are the reason. The church faces the first real schism since the day Henry VIII walked angrily out of the Catholic community to lead his own faction, because Rome would not sanction his marriage to Anne Boleyn, his brother's widow. This time some leftists among the Anglican Communion want not only more homosexuals ordained as bishops, but women as well. The real problem, as I see it, is the rapid degradation of values and traditions by the so-called liberal influences of nowadays; you regularly see men kissing other men in public, walking holding hands and shamelessly flaunting what are misleadingly termed their "lifestyle" and "sexual preferences". There could be a few things I could take issue with Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe, but his unflinching and unapologetic stance over homosexuals is definitely not among those. Why, only this very month - you'd better believe this - a man, in a homosexual relationship with another man, gave birth to a child! At least the so-called husband in that relationship hit the jackpot, making me wonder what it is these people have against the natural order of things. And by the way, please tell the Human Rights Commission that I totally refuse to withdraw or apologise for my views. I will write no letters to the commission either, explaining my thoughts. Trouble in the Anglican Communion began when the Episcopalian fraternity in America (where else?) decided to ordain a homosexual as bishop of the flock. Here in South Africa we had a senior officer of the church in Cape Town parading his "gay lifestyle" openly. The 10-yearly Lambeth Conference in England - the gathering is the world "synod" of the church - will deliberate the delicate matter of women and homosexual bishops, among other things. Homosexuals and their backers will call me names, printable and not, for stating as I have always done my serious reservations about their "lifestyle and sexual preferences", but quite frankly I don't give a damn: wrong is wrong! I do pray that some day a bunch of politicians with their heads affixed firmly to their necks will muster the balls to rewrite the constitution of this country, to excise those sections which give licence to men "marrying" other men, and ditto women. Otherwise, at this rate, how soon before some idiot demands to "marry" an animal, and argues that this constitu¬tion "allows" it? - by Jon Qwelane.

      Andre Grobler - 2011-05-31 13:51

      There you go. Now stop moaning. He's a disgrace to humankind.

      william.botha - 2011-05-31 14:20

      @stuart.steedman - Only humans can be classified as homosexual. Don't be stupid, it's dangerous. Homo as in "homo"sapiens? Ring a bell? Some reading matter for you dude.

      mbossenger - 2011-05-31 14:54

      @Ozzy - "Wow, using Wikipedia as a reference to support your posts. Way to notch up credibility points.....NOT." However, the Wikipedia article is REFERENCED and those refereneces are to scientific journals, so in this case Wikipedia is a perfectly acceptable source of information.

  • Matt - 2011-05-31 10:35

    I didn't read his article - what element of it was deemed hate speech? If it were just a statement that he took offence to being called gay, I don't see what's wrong with that, I feel the same. But was there something else that DID inspire hatred? I read this article + the older one linked to it and it just doesn't say...

      Matt - 2011-05-31 10:41

      A thumbs down for asking a question... lol!

      CorbZA - 2011-05-31 10:44

      You got the wrong context, what he implied was "Call me homophobic, intolerant etc. But being gay is not ok." It's pretty misleading when they just put the headline in!

      Matt - 2011-05-31 10:49

      I still wouldn't call that hate speech. If he was saying "kill them" or "beat them" then by all means! Still, this chap is SA's ambassador to Uganda, he should know better. If this is hate speech though, why has JZ not been tackled for saying how he would knock the umqingili out?

      o Great one - 2011-05-31 10:51

      THIS DON`T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME WHAT DID HE DO WRONG

      CorbZA - 2011-05-31 10:52

      Because no one's pressed charges against JZ for saying that.

      daaivark - 2011-05-31 10:54

      If you make such a derogatory statement from a public platform such as a newspaper column, then it is not just holding a private sentiment, but actually making a value judgement in public, which is not okay.

      brian.trudgeon - 2011-05-31 11:05

      Matt, News 24 are reporting this incorrectly. The original article was not published in the Sunday Times as this story implies. JQ, was employed and wrote the column for Media 24, (the owners of news 24). Tacky reporting making the competition look like they had published the article when it was in fact themselves.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 11:08

      OK I just got hold of the article... I think a lot of people would agree with points that he makes, but you can see hatred in his writing and he is meant to be representing SA after all... they are still people, our brothers and sisters, and should be treated with respect as should we all - but that doesn't mean we all have to agree with it though, and I don't.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 11:11

      @ Brian - thanks :-) btw any relation to Mark and Debi?

      brian.trudgeon - 2011-05-31 11:12

      I see the article has been corrected now.

      o Great one - 2011-05-31 11:18

      CorbZA the way i see it is He said call me anything but don`t call me gay " because being called gay is not ok for him maybe he has a wife how knows " well if u take what happened in Uganda its not safe to be called gay in some places in Africa.

      GinSA1 - 2011-05-31 11:49

      No Brian - it was due to be published on News24, but was NOT. I'm not a huge supporter of News24 for some reasons (bland articles, 'borrowed' articles [ copy and paste] - illiterate Journo's, and more), but in this case, you're beating the wrong guy

      brian.trudgeon - 2011-05-31 12:12

      LOL. Small world Matt. Yes, I am.

      Andre Grobler - 2011-05-31 13:49

      "Oh dear, here we go yet again. The Anglican Church is heading for a split in its ranks, and homosexuals are the reason. The church faces the first real schism since the day Henry VIII walked angrily out of the Catholic community to lead his own faction, because Rome would not sanction his marriage to Anne Boleyn, his brother's widow. This time some leftists among the Anglican Communion want not only more homosexuals ordained as bishops, but women as well. The real problem, as I see it, is the rapid degradation of values and traditions by the so-called liberal influences of nowadays; you regularly see men kissing other men in public, walking holding hands and shamelessly flaunting what are misleadingly termed their "lifestyle" and "sexual preferences". There could be a few things I could take issue with Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe, but his unflinching and unapologetic stance over homosexuals is definitely not among those. Why, only this very month - you'd better believe this - a man, in a homosexual relationship with another man, gave birth to a child! At least the so-called husband in that relationship hit the jackpot, making me wonder what it is these people have against the natural order of things. And by the way, please tell the Human Rights Commission that I totally refuse to withdraw or apologise for my views. I will write no letters to the commission either, explaining my thoughts. Trouble in the Anglican Communion began when the Episcopalian fraternity in America (where else?) decided to ordain a homosexual as bishop of the flock. Here in South Africa we had a senior officer of the church in Cape Town parading his "gay lifestyle" openly. The 10-yearly Lambeth Conference in England - the gathering is the world "synod" of the church - will deliberate the delicate matter of women and homosexual bishops, among other things. Homosexuals and their backers will call me names, printable and not, for stating as I have always done my serious reservations about their "lifestyle and sexual preferences", but quite frankly I don't give a damn: wrong is wrong! I do pray that some day a bunch of politicians with their heads affixed firmly to their necks will muster the balls to rewrite the constitution of this country, to excise those sections which give licence to men "marrying" other men, and ditto women. Otherwise, at this rate, how soon before some idiot demands to "marry" an animal, and argues that this constitu¬tion "allows" it? - by Jon Qwelane.

      Andre Grobler - 2011-05-31 13:50

      There you go, now stop moaning. He's a disgrace to humankind.

  • Sizwe Mogale - 2011-05-31 10:36

    R100 000, wow thats a bit much dont you think? Cant remember what he said but 100k seems a very high price to pay for an article and a cartoon no?

      Ms M - 2011-05-31 10:41

      R100 000 is definitely too much, especially when one considers what hardcore criminals get off on!!!

      GT - 2011-05-31 10:48

      I agree that it is very high when you consider the penalty for travel gate MP's, but it was a disgradeful article by this bigot. http://blogs.uct.ac.za/blog/media-flaws/2008/07/24/jon-qwelane-s-gay-article-excuse-pun-...

      Sizwe Mogale - 2011-05-31 10:54

      Ah man... The link doesnt work :(

      daaivark - 2011-05-31 10:56

      The law is not a matter of being comparable.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 11:02

      @ Sizwe - go to http://blogs.uct.ac.za/blog/media-flaws and search "qwelane" - ok, I understand why the article would be deemed as hate speech and especially coming from an ambassador. I tend to agree with his viewpoint though, although I will also say that discriminating against one is wrong and they are still our brothers and sisters and should command human respect.

      DeonL - 2011-05-31 11:06

      He did not pitch up for the court case a previous posting revealed. He got what he deserved for his stupidity.

  • DAB - 2011-05-31 10:37

    Justice deserved - justice served

      Steve Wonderboy - 2011-05-31 11:02

      Justice was not served. We do have a right to an opinion and to voice it. Hate speech comes in when we try to incite violence. If you are not gay, why would you want to be called it?

      Point Blank - 2011-05-31 12:01

      Because this was not about you and straight people Steve, one day youw ill realise there are other people on this planet..

      Koos - 2011-05-31 13:50

      GAY=CAPE-TOWN

      GinSA1 - 2011-05-31 14:05

      DOOS = Koos

      Matt - 2011-05-31 14:11

      @ Koos - try Holland - any town of your choice

  • IR_Eddie - 2011-05-31 10:37

    Let see how this rulling compares to Malema's "kill the boer" and Judge Motata's hate speach outcomes!

      Louis III - 2011-05-31 10:46

      My thoughts exactly!

      tryanything - 2011-05-31 11:36

      Still think Malema and EX Mother will walk.

      youcantrunyoucanthide - 2011-05-31 12:37

      According to Daaivark, "The law is not a matter of being comparable".

      Koos - 2011-05-31 13:51

      GAY=KAAP-STAAD

      GinSA1 - 2011-05-31 14:06

      En DOOS vergelyk nog steeds aan KOOS

  • Suckerz - 2011-05-31 10:39

    So, When is Mal-lame-ou's turn to apologize for inciting genocide?

      daaivark - 2011-05-31 10:58

      Not relevant.

  • bob - 2011-05-31 10:39

    isn't hate speech a personal opinion?

      Colin - 2011-05-31 10:44

      I guess that would make what Hitler advocated a personal opinion to then Bob. Lets hope for your sake you still have a foreskin...

      daaivark - 2011-05-31 10:59

      What the hell has this all got to do with Hitler?

      o Great one - 2011-05-31 11:21

      colin Leave Hitler out of this ok "he was a special" child ok

      Matt - 2011-05-31 12:03

      Banning hate speech outright also leads to problems though... Check Europe. Mein Kampf is banned in Holland and Germany (and many other places). Problem: 1) you can't study WW2 properly without it (you need to understand how sick Addie was and why he did things) so you get a one-sided account which isn't very satisfying and is open to abuse, and 2) if you ban something, it will just go underground. Like, anything pro-Nazi, even denying the Holocaust ever happened (it did happen btw), those things are punishable by jail. So now they have societies that appear tolerant, but also a sizeable underground of Nazis and other racists. Oh, and there's plenty resentment in Europe about a few things, so angry sentiments are growing and far-right parties are getting big support... Just a reason why it's better to just let someone say what they want, then we can all tell him/her whether he/she is right or wrong... and if it's someone openly inciting hatred and action against a part of the community, then take legal action... but denying someone freedom of speech, even if the views aren't those of the majority, CAN lead to explosive situations. Just saying...

      Colin - 2011-05-31 13:57

      Oh for God sake daaivark...You want to be drawn pictures?? He stood up in front of millions and preached the "gospel"of extermination of Jews, blacks, Gays, Gypsies. His "opinion". The problem is not having an opinion..it's having an opinion which opresses others. It's having an opinion which others may act on. And o Great one - sorry to disapoint, he certainly wasnt special or unique. We have had many "special children" in History..Idi Amin, Hitler, our favourite neighbour Bob Mugabe.

  • World Traveler - 2011-05-31 10:41

    R100000 for anti-gay hate speech - How much for "shoot the Boer"?? R10000000000000.oo??

      BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-05-31 11:44

      You see, your comment is EXACTLY why noone takes the Afrikaner's plight seriously anymore. Qwelane did incite murder against gays. Is an Afrikaner life more valuable than a gay one? The sense of entitlement, one track mindedness and total disregard for anyone's wellbeing other than your own which has become the Afrikaner's character of late is disgusting and isn't doing anyone any favors. In case you were wondering - I'm an Afrikaner myself, and I believe that if we focus on building bridges instead of burning them in fits of self pity, we might just stand a chance of not only surviving, but becoming the warm group of people we once were.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 12:07

      I think his point was that the justice system will penalise hate speech towards one minority group with a R100,000 fine, whereas certain politicians are openly inciting hatred and murder of another minority group and are not taken to task (YET - watch this space Juli-ass).

      BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-05-31 12:22

      Matt: That wasn't his point, and you know it. "R100000 for anti-gay hate speech - How much for "shoot the Boer"?? R10000000000000.oo??" In other words - if this unimportant crap gets a R100K fine - how much MORE must Malema be fined for doing something "really serious" against one of World Traveler's own? I'll say it again - by comparing EVERYTHING that happens in South Africa to the Malema case doesn't help the Afrikaner's cause - in fact, it's tarnishing it rapidly. Life isn't fair - and evil, hateful minds are abundant. I applaud the gay community for taking Qwelane to task for completely and apologetically disregarding the South African constitution, instead of having pity parties about it, and dismissing other human rights triumphs as irrelevant.

  • Nintendo - 2011-05-31 10:41

    R100k!!! that's Gay

  • Shivermetimb - 2011-05-31 10:41

    Amazing. Jon gets whacked over the knuckles for being anti-gay, but the same organisation is fine with the calling for the shooting of white farmers. I guess this says it all. It is time to disband the SAHRC.

  • Tc - 2011-05-31 10:41

    This country is strange.. JQ's column is not OK, but the ANC is hell-bent on singing "Shoot the Farmers", and they believe that is OK. So what is Hate-Speach actually?

  • The ABG - 2011-05-31 10:42

    Someone thought the law was being broken and went to court. What are you guys complaining about? Did any of you put your money where your mouth is and lay a charge against JM? If you feel so strongly about something go do something instead of bitching about it.

      daaivark - 2011-05-31 11:00

      EXCELLENT!!! Wonderfully put.

      jowza - 2011-05-31 11:15

      well said abg,but knowing the normal moaners here,anything else is too much work

      schmerz - 2011-05-31 11:33

      Oh so by that logic it's ok to publicly declare genocide unless you fail at silencing the opposition. There is something like right and wrong, in case you didn't know

      Point Blank - 2011-05-31 12:04

      Oh yawn schmerz, get a grip man. Moaner.

      youcantrunyoucanthide - 2011-05-31 12:40

      Someone is taking him to court.

      schmerz - 2011-05-31 13:03

      Whatever, you think I've got enough resources to take everyone in the ANC to court? Would that be smart considering the result of all the cases made against them? If the justice system fails to deliver, what else is there to do? Roll over and die? Do you approve the slaughter of protesters? Whatever, I leave it here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euXQbZDwV0w

  • Freelance Writer - 2011-05-31 10:43

    An appropriate punishment considering that he is SA's ambassador to Uganda which is currently trying to pass anti-gay laws.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 12:08

      Good point - if he had written an article declaring his love for them, what would happen to him when he returned to work in Uganda?

  • tiger - 2011-05-31 10:44

    I would not like to be called gay either.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 10:50

      Ditto

      daaivark - 2011-05-31 11:01

      Makes absolutely no difference to me what people choose to call one in their biased naivety. Being gay is neither here nor there.

      Steve Wonderboy - 2011-05-31 11:05

      It does out of principle.

      youcantrunyoucanthide - 2011-05-31 12:41

      @Daaivark - You're gay.

  • v3 - 2011-05-31 10:44

    He should be withdrawn as an ambassador as he is unfit to represent the country.

      Zion - 2011-05-31 10:55

      Agreed, but then most of the ANC hotshots must be withdrawn too.

      Steve Wonderboy - 2011-05-31 11:08

      He should never have been found guilty. What he said does fall under freedom of speech. From what I can see he was only stating his opinion, not trying to convince anyone of anything. For that matter I agree with him. No straight guy would ever wish to be called gay.

      jowza - 2011-05-31 11:15

      for what reason reason v3

      Point Blank - 2011-05-31 12:06

      He wasn't found guilty because he doesn't want to be called gay... the article smacked of anti-gay, homophobic ramblings...

      BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-05-31 12:10

      Jowza - reason being he's representing a people who's constitution is in stark and absolute contrast to his publicly expressed views. The same day the laws of this land deemed it illegal to call a black person a K*ffer - it also deemed it illegal to discriminate against ANYONE ELSE because of their gender, religion (or lack thereof), race AND sexual orientation, In modern day South Africa - the book says that everyone is equal. If people don't like that, then it opens up a whole can of worms about whether the previous regime was really so wrong....you get where I'm going with this?

  • Anton - 2011-05-31 10:45

    Well done! Finally these old right wing ANC candre's must learn that Homophobia is Hate Speech. Now what about prosecuting Zuma for saying that would 'knock gays down'.

  • BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-05-31 10:45

    Happy to see that the equality court has chosen to fulfill it's mandate to protect ALL of SA's citizens. Next step - get this moron fired from his post as SA's ambassador to Uganda. He can't be an asset in a country where a government bill is being pushed to execute gay's and "gay enablers".

  • jeremy - 2011-05-31 10:49

    Dear News24 editor, this is another SAPA article which leaves the reader with more questions than answers. It's also lacking a great deal of context, such as Qwelane's present position in Uganda. I would suggest you have a long chat with Mark van der Velden at SAPA about the quality of its articles - or get your own reporters to extend and enlarge them.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 10:51

      Ditto!

  • daaivark - 2011-05-31 10:51

    He must be feeling right at home there with the homophobes. Good thing that he was appropriately punished for an idiotic statement.

  • annie.kalahari - 2011-05-31 10:51

    Jon Qwelana had a book banned about the history of Brits, called 'Agter die Magalies' by Bertus de Beer, because De Beer published photographs of members of a local black tribe who all had splayed feet and were very good at climbing trees. I can't give you the name used by De Beer in his book because I'd get tossed off right away from Facebook. So this is a case of the Pot and the Kettle.It was one of the few Afrikaans books ever banned during apartheid.

      Grunk - 2011-05-31 11:07

      When he had his own show on 702 to my mind the extremism of his comments made him as big a racist as Terreblanche. So if you can't get justice one way then I suppose this will have to do.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 12:09

      So it's fair to say Jon is a bit of a p03s all round?

  • theprodigy - 2011-05-31 10:52

    well if this is hate speech WTF is Malemas utterances, lets be consistent here.

      EugeneF - 2011-05-31 11:03

      Wait for the judgement to be passed on Malema's case before making a comparison.

  • NATO OFFICE - 2011-05-31 10:55

    Judge must be gay...R100 000 is too much...R5 000 was ook

      Steve Wonderboy - 2011-05-31 11:11

      Wouldn't have even found him guilty to begin with. Since when is it wrong to be anti-gay(as homophobia does not exist)? Would have let the plaintiff paid his legal fees too.

      JohannV - 2011-05-31 11:43

      Same judge who was cross with the "Spud" movie? Cameron...

  • Currie_Mafia - 2011-05-31 10:56

    If someone does call you gay & you're not, surely that also constitutes hate speech...Ag, this is a load of bull.. If some idiot makes me angry, I'm gonna swear his mo3r out, doesn't matter on race, religion or sexual orientation...

      jowza - 2011-05-31 11:33

      Gays think they are a special breed and should be protected

      Point Blank - 2011-05-31 12:09

      @jowza, I could say the same about certain races.

      jowza - 2011-05-31 12:24

      we talking about gays,pointblabk.dont confuse yourself

  • Badger - 2011-05-31 10:56

    I assume the malema hate speech will then be a sure conviction if this goes as hate speech.

      benjvanniekerk - 2011-05-31 11:33

      Unless malemas h speech is rulingparty policy.

      Badballie - 2011-05-31 11:49

      nothing is certain in the new afik du sud, if you remember a court has already declared "shoot the Boer" to be hate speech and incitement to violence, the current case with Malema only strengthens the general belief that the courts are under direct control of the ANC as the court has decided to ignore the previous finding and hear the case again. You also need to remember that the case is against Malema so even if he is found guilty of hate speech the judgment only applies to him and unless specifically decreed hate speech can still be sung by others

  • BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-05-31 10:57

    To everyone voicing their EXTREMELY uninformed opinions (which seems to be the trademark of the cookiecutter South African nowadays) - go and Google and read Qwelane's original column, then come back after you've drawn an educated conclusion. Also remember that this man is currently SA's ambassador in Uganda (where they're seeking to execute gays, and prosecuting anyone enabling their lives - in other words renting property to them etc) It doesn't matter whether you're gay/straight/white/black - if you believe that there was no harm done - you're sick and should be removed from modern society.

      Point Blank - 2011-05-31 12:10

      Like we should with your kind?

      Matt - 2011-05-31 12:12

      @ Tony - I agree that their actions are wrong, but they are still human beings and should be afforded the same respect

      BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-05-31 12:35

      Tony - then don't expect sympathy and sanity next time a white grandmother is raped to death on a farm somewhere in front of her grandkids. A human rights triumph for one, is a human rights triumph for all. If you can't understand that, then you're indirectly fueling the violence towards ALL demographics in this country - and you have blood on your hands.

      daboss247365 - 2011-05-31 14:36

      @brixton, will you stick to your statement when your adopted child es doing sexual favours to older men in return for payment? and after charging these men, they are told they have rights too you know. Yes, when is the pedophile parade happenning in town? afterall, rights for one should be rights for all? correct? not their fault they are attracted sexually to your 3 year old daughter... Does this not sicken you in the least you perverted F###bucket????????

      mbossenger - 2011-05-31 15:02

      @daboss247365 - I'm starting to think you don't know the difference between homosexuality and paedophilia.

      BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-05-31 15:19

      Daboss - you clearly have issues that haven't been resolved. It sounds like you may have been molested, or perhaps you are the kind of parent who allowed one of your kids (God help them!) to be put in a situation where ANY adult (gay/straight/white/black/male/female) took advantage of them. Perhaps you are a child molestor, because you seem to have an unhealthy preoccupation with children and sexual situations. Whatever the case - I suggest you obtain the appropriate counseling in order to help you deal with whatever trauma you're trying to deal with. Noone needs to go through life with your toxic attitude. If you do, it's by your own choice.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 15:48

      @ Mbossenger - check NAMBLA... most surely a minority-minority group, but still...

      BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-05-31 17:10

      Matt: NAMBLA is a horrible group where misguided, psychologically unwell men believe that they're infatuation with young boys can somehow be justified. Wrong as those individuals may be - What does this have to do with a sustainable link between homosexuality and pedophilia? Do grown men not molest little girls to the point of daughters giving birth to their own fathers offspring? Have mature women never been known to molest underage boys? To bring up pedophilia when discussing homosexuality is like bringing up laziness and incompetence when discussing black people, and greed and dishonesty when discussing jews. It's an unfair label that was created to bring about fear and apprehension.

  • brian.trudgeon - 2011-05-31 10:59

    I am glad that justice is served. His remarks were hateful. I have to question the way MEDIA 24 is reporting this story now. JQ had his column published by MEDIA 24 at the time not the Sunday Times as this article reports. That is factually incorrect. Very disappointing even if the article is SAPA sourced.

      brian.trudgeon - 2011-05-31 11:14

      I see the article has been corrected now.

      GinSA1 - 2011-05-31 12:01

      Again, Media24 did NOT publish the article. They were to, then cancelled. Basics.....

  • Born To Fish - 2011-05-31 11:00

    Are we sure we know the meaning of the word Gay. The debate must continue in the same way we that we still not have the correct meaning for the word Boer!

      Matt - 2011-05-31 11:13

      Yeah, in my understanding gay meant happy... not anymore apparently ;-)

  • brian.trudgeon - 2011-05-31 11:00

    I am glad that justice is served. His remarks were hateful. I have to question the way MEDIA 24 is reporting this story now. JQ had his column published by MEDIA 24 at the time not the Sunday Times as this article reports. That is factually incorrect. Very disappointing even if the article is SAPA sourced.

      youcantrunyoucanthide - 2011-05-31 12:48

      Have you seen the bollocks reports SAPA has bee producing of late?

  • Sizwe Mogale - 2011-05-31 11:02

    Ok I just read the article GTFOOH thats not worth 100k I'm sorry, dont agree with all he said but comments that we see on this site are a lot more scathing than what he wrote... It was his opinion, I mean c'nom CHILDISH

      EugeneF - 2011-05-31 11:07

      Very childish indeed to end up in court? I mean honestly, I thought only cases with merit go to court? Hate speech is hate speech no matter how you spin it.

      BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-05-31 11:14

      Sizwe - please do me a favor and post a link to the original article here. I can't seem to find it. There's a LOT of Google results about the reaction to it, but it seems the original column is quite scarce.

      Sizwe Mogale - 2011-05-31 11:21

      http://blogs.uct.ac.za/blog/media-flaws/2008/07/24/jon-qwelane-s-gay-article-excuse-pun-... Make sure to include the ... at the end of the URL..

      EugeneF - 2011-05-31 11:22

      Comparing homosexuality to bestiality? So what in your opinion, oh fair Sizwe, would be fair?

      Sizwe Mogale - 2011-05-31 11:27

      I don't know... A full apology and maybe 20k or something along those lines. I'm just saying people here get heavy with the mud slinging game, we've all seen it. Unfortunately he is/was in a prominent position and as such should be held accountable. Still tho although he had very strong views, I don't think it warrant that heavy a fine...

      FearoPhobia - 2011-05-31 11:58

      @Eugene, you put too much faith in courts. Anyone who choose to accuse anyone of anything can go to court. The outcome of a court case is also not necessarily the final word on what is right or wrong. If JM is found not guilty of hate speech for singing "kill the boer" then that doesn't make it right.

      Pulverturm - 2011-05-31 12:04

      Sizwe, how "childish" do you think those lesbian teenagers are when they are being gang raped to correct their sexuality. There is nothing childish about addressing this issue! It's a very relevant issue in our country and our contitent, we are facing a human rights crisis!

      mbossenger - 2011-05-31 15:04

      So if he had written all constitutional rights must be taken away from blacks or whites or Jews or Muslims or reheads; would that constitute hate speach?

  • DeonL - 2011-05-31 11:04

    He did not pitch up at court for the hearings to defend himself. When you are stupid, you have to pay.

  • Anonymous Thinker - 2011-05-31 11:07

    That money should go to Gay & Lesbian rights.

      jowza - 2011-05-31 11:18

      yes to buy protection

      EugeneF - 2011-05-31 11:25

      @ jowza - statistically, the spread of STDs is more prevalent in the straight community? Who needs protection?

      Matt - 2011-05-31 11:38

      EugeneF - jsut asking - is that based on amounts or percentages?

      Matt - 2011-05-31 11:39

      In England, otherwise known as "Gaystapo" after various high-profile cases

      Muzi - 2011-05-31 12:58

      I just feel sorry Engish women, I just heard on Radio 702 that 30% of men there upto the age of 40 leave with their moms. That's they marry Aussies.

      Koos - 2011-05-31 13:56

      MAJORITY OF WHITE MAN ARE GAY OR HAVE GAY TENDENCY AND MAJORITY OF THEM ARE FOUND IN CAPE -TOWN

      Matt - 2011-05-31 14:15

      @ Muzi - possibly because property is unaffordable in the UK (rent and to buy) so what else must they do... if a couple earn £30k a year together, their maximum bond is £90k which buys you nothing... so to get a house you need like £100k deposit! @ Koos - have you ever visited Primrose? We can rival Cape Town you know... except all the well-groomed ones live there and all the butch ones are here :-)

  • oxygen - 2011-05-31 11:10

    It's about time - JQ is a very bitter and twisted little man.

  • brian.trudgeon - 2011-05-31 11:12

    WOW. I see the article has been corrected now :-)

  • melanielowesa - 2011-05-31 11:13

    Read the offending article here. "Call me names, but gay is NOT okay" was only the title of the article: http://blogs.uct.ac.za/blog/media-flaws/2008/07/24/jon-qwelane-s-gay-article-excuse-pun-...

  • Matt - 2011-05-31 11:15

    Just a similar story for interest. In Holland, a policeman apprehended someone and was called a "flikker" (just about the only offensive term the Dutch have for a gay). It went to court; the guy claimed that he was "merely expressing his opinion of the sexuality of the police officer" - and they bought it... innocent!

  • mbossenger - 2011-05-31 11:15

    @Matt - he said he hoped one day a politician would have the balls to remove gay rights from the Constitution and he concluded the article by hinting that gay relationships were on a par with bestiality.

      EugeneF - 2011-05-31 11:23

      He got (some of) what he deserved. Now he just needs to be removed as Ambassador.

      Point Blank - 2011-05-31 12:13

      @jowza, how would you know, watch a lot of gay porn do you?

      EugeneF - 2011-05-31 12:17

      And the little boy (Jowza) deleted his comment....

      jowza - 2011-05-31 12:25

      who deleted my comment

      jowza - 2011-05-31 12:31

      no pointblank,i prefer bestiality porn

  • jowza - 2011-05-31 11:21

    is it a crime to say gay is not ok?

      EugeneF - 2011-05-31 11:26

      It is a crime to compare it to bestiality, wouldn't you agree?

      EugeneF - 2011-05-31 11:38

      Always the first to comment, but never able to justify.

      Steve Wonderboy - 2011-05-31 11:44

      I would compare it to anything morally wrong(and it is). Just because they have people lobbying for them does not change that fact. Might as well have a lobby group for incest and cannibalism while we are at it.

      jowza - 2011-05-31 11:57

      thank you steve wonderboy

      Point Blank - 2011-05-31 12:15

      @Steve, again such a sad poor little boy..

      jowza - 2011-05-31 12:30

      no pointblank,by your comments i think you are a poor little boy

  • willem.p.grobbelaar - 2011-05-31 11:23

    F#$k yeah !!!!

  • Marcell - 2011-05-31 11:26

    I'm a lesbian! I like women. What is it with the people that are not mainstream normal? Always trying to proof something. This gay/lesbian march and so it carry on. We should have a march for straight people.

      EugeneF - 2011-05-31 11:31

      And what would this march accomplish? Anything to march for? We not trying to prove anything, we want to be treated as equal HUMAN BEINGS. Arent we?

      Kevin - 2011-05-31 11:53

      I am straight and also like women.

      oliver.macrae - 2011-05-31 11:53

      Exactly

      jowza - 2011-05-31 11:58

      no eugene,you want to be treated special

      EugeneF - 2011-05-31 12:05

      Wow, another insightful comment Jowza. No, I just wanted to be treated equal with equal rights.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 12:17

      But look at the marches... parading half-undressed, displaying things that a large portion of the community find offensive... if they want to protest, by all means, but do they have to display their stuff in public and in front of the world? Look at the one in Russia on the weekend, activists from all over the world went there to stir up trouble. So, if they must parade, at least do it decently... BTW, you know Gay Day is coming up, possibly this weekend? In Disneyworld Orlando. They wear red shirts to recognise each other, and every year plenty are arrested for lewd conduct (ie doing sexual stuff in public) - in a KIDS PARK. Please don't do this...

      Steve Wonderboy - 2011-05-31 12:19

      Go Kevin! I think we should have a march for heterosexual peoples rights. How you can be fined for stating your just opinion is beyond me.

      Point Blank - 2011-05-31 12:27

      No thanks, a bunch of "hetrosexual" men all brushing up against each other? Sorry you "guys" are on your own... I'll head off to the beach and marvel at some beautiful women.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 14:18

      @ Steve Wonderboy - a year or so ago, they had a march in England - there was an elderly old lady who distributed some religious leaflets, nothing at all to condemn them or even mention them, and was manhandled by cops, pushed into a van and treated like a terrorist... so I don't know how well a "straight pride" would go down with the cops here?

  • sekunjalo1 - 2011-05-31 11:28

    Excellent so that people must learn to shut up their big mouth for things there not part of.

  • BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-05-31 11:28

    To everyone who thinks that gay rights don't concern them... A little quote by Martin Niemoller after the Nazi death camps. "First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me."

  • Bloedrivier - 2011-05-31 11:30

    @Jon Qwelane....whats your account number? Will sponsor that R100 000. Fully support you in what you said.

      EugeneF - 2011-05-31 11:44

      And if a family member turns out to be guy? Still gonna FULLY support him?

      jowza - 2011-05-31 11:52

      are you gay eugene,if you come out i will fully support you

      Currie_Mafia - 2011-05-31 12:10

      no...he's guy...what's that in french ?..

      EugeneF - 2011-05-31 12:13

      Yes I am Jowza. Need support coming out?

      Point Blank - 2011-05-31 12:16

      With a name like Bloedrivier he probably has the hots for his farm animals...

      Bloedrivier - 2011-05-31 14:00

      @PointBlank....thats the fckn worst effort at trying to be funny/nasty i've ever read on these comments pages.....OMG, I had such a laugh...HAHAHA,....man, are you serious? Is that the best you could come up with? HAHAHA. By the way, your name reminds me of the following: "80 year old man: My 28 year old wife is pregnant, your opinion Doctor? Doctor: Let me tell you a story. A hunter in a hurry grabs an umbrella instead of the gun. He moves into the woods, sees a bear, lifts the umbrella, pulls the handle and BANG... The bear drops dead! Old man: Thats impossible; someone else must have shot the bear. Doctor: MY POINT EXACTLY!"..........So, PointBlank, do you maybe want to tell us something? @EugeneF...I have a lot of family members who are guy's (and one who is a guy and gay), so first, check your spellin, secondly, to answer your question, the gay guy I only know, I don't have to support him in any way, there's nothing special about him that requires my support, he can support himself. It's my personal feeling and opinion that gay is not right, so sue me. Just like it may be your personal feeling that you don't like cats, or meat, or broccoli, or whatever. So what, if I say I don't like gay, what about it, I don't need to justify myself to you, unlike gays that feel they need to justify everything that is gay to the world. So hit me with a pink blanket and call me anti-gay.......SO WHAT!

      Matt - 2011-05-31 14:20

      @ Currie_Mafia - guy in French is homme... if you were thinking of something else, the common word there is pede :-)

      daboss247365 - 2011-05-31 14:38

      I second this statement, I think 1 public appeal will raise the R100 000, & a bit more to raise a counterclaim against the demon that initiated this case.

      EugeneF - 2011-05-31 14:40

      No need to feel I have to justify myself to you in the least, or any one for that matter. Thanx for nitpicking on my spelling, it was an error on my part when I type with more than two fingers, and it is simply atrocious I agree. I am very happy as a human being. Deeply content in my life with a loving partner. This topic tends to get me hot under the collar though. I pay taxes, abide by the laws of this country, respect the elderly, don't murder, or judge others just because I can, but when people are ignorant I feel that I have to speak up. Your

  • herbie198512 - 2011-05-31 11:31

    homosexuality is found in over 450 species. homophobia is only found in one. which one seems unnatural now?

      Steve Wonderboy - 2011-05-31 11:45

      insanity is found in more than a thousand species too.

      Kevin - 2011-05-31 11:56

      Are you saying it is an animal thing?

      Matt - 2011-05-31 14:20

      Yes, do you consider us just to be animals? No, we're human beings!!!

  • Jakob - 2011-05-31 11:33

    well GAY is NOT okay, so must i also pay R100 000?

      JohannV - 2011-05-31 11:47

      Ag shame, all these poor, poor gays, lesbians, radicals, liberals, politically correct sensitive little souls. Human rights mean rights for anyone BUT normal, straight human beings. No wonder the world is so stuffed up.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 12:20

      Just a bit of trivia. When Christians were persecuted and murdered in the Roman Empire, take a guess at what the charge was called... hate speech! Lesson... who defines what is hate speech?

      mbossenger - 2011-05-31 15:09

      @Matt me old mucker - your understanding of homosexuality is as pi$$ poor as your understanding of evolution.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 15:51

      @ Mbossenger - I understand both perfectly well thanks, and besides what have they got to do with my last comment? Just a bit of trivia, nothing behind it.

      Matt - 2011-05-31 15:53

      Remember Mbossenger, I grew up in Holland - there was all the gay pride stuff and openness over there while you in SA were still trying to get illegal copies of Playboy ;-)

  • martin - 2011-05-31 11:33

    John Qwelane, you would certainly benefit from reading "The Lottery Code" by Hattingh-Spurgeon. http://www.thelotterycode.net

  • Jaco - 2011-05-31 11:34

    So many people with strong opinions here, never even read Qwelane's article, which is fully deserving of the fine imposed upon him. No folks, he didn't only say, "don't call me gay", he went much further, and okay'd any form of discrimination and prejudice against a harmless sector of society. I'm not gay, so I leave them alone, and they leave me alone. Live and let live, folks.

  • VELOCITY - 2011-05-31 11:34

    Men are such hypocrites! In my circle of around a dozen close (girl) friends, at least ten of them have been asked to have anal by their boyfriend/lover. At least half have been approached by the same boyfriend/lover to have a threesome with a second girl/women. At least two have been begged to have it off with another girl while the boyfriend watches. In gentlemen’s clubs around the country the live lesbian shows are hugely popular. (I’m connected to the industry so I know) Yet these are the same guys (perverts?) who are the most Homophobic and outspoken critics of gay people. Your regular nine to five office chap who prefer Missionary 90% of the time and never cheats on his girlfriend normally have no problem with gay guys, and has a few of them in his circle of guy friends anyway. It’s the outspoken one’s who are secretly having it off somewhere in a public toilet with a stranger.

      VELOCITY - 2011-05-31 12:37

      @daboss, "these things"? Let me tell you something for nothing: Among those you call your friends, there are gay's. They are in your family, they are working with you, they ride the public transport with you, they sit next to you in the restaurant, they are in your church. And you seldom notice them right? Because they are living beings just like you and me, they need love just like you and me, and they commit into long term relationships like you and me. Those that judge gay people are those that know and understand the least about gay people. Look in the mirror and judge only yourself, God will judge everyone else.

      BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-05-31 13:04

      Daboss - You have delusions of adequacy. I'm sure a quick survey around the watercooler will establish you're not packing 400 horsepower between your legs. Get over yourself.

      daboss247365 - 2011-05-31 13:55

      @Brixton, lol, its hard to match anything coming outta brixton, but hey, I'd give it a good 350

      Matt - 2011-05-31 14:22

      If anything, you have to appreciate Daboss's honesty... but TMI mate!

      BrixtonBriefcase - 2011-05-31 17:26

      daboss: I think we both realize that I'm as much from Brixton as you're actually someone's boss.

  • the_truth - 2011-05-31 11:34

    Only R100k?????, should have been x 10......, and then THEY make him ambassador?

      daboss247365 - 2011-05-31 11:48

      Well for once I agree with their deployment strategy, as Uganda does not need someone who will interfere with their internal policies.

  • azeem walele - 2011-05-31 11:35

    I do not see anything wrong with his comment, even if it is in a newspaper. All of us are entitled to have our own opinions , and his certainly is not inflammatory in any way.

      EugeneF - 2011-05-31 11:45

      Of course you dont see anything wrong with his comments? (Did you even read the full article?) Wait till his comments are directed at you and you might have a different opinion.

  • Douglas Hendry - 2011-05-31 11:39

    Whats the betting that we, the taxpayer, will pay the fine, if in fact it ever gets paid. Do you honestly think that any ANC people ever put their hands in their own pockets and pay their own bills, or fines? Dream on.