News24

Judges ordered to attend Christian course

2012-03-15 10:02

Johannesburg - Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng raised serious concerns about the separation of church and the judiciary by ordering top judges to attend a leadership conference by an American evangelist, according to reports on Thursday.

In an e-mail sent on behalf of Mogoeng, to heads of court, judges president and their deputies and were "requested to be available" for an evangelical leadership conference that was held in Kempton Park, Johannesburg on Monday, the Mail & Guardian Online reported.

The Mail & Guardian published an e-mail sent by Memme Sejosengwe, the chief director of court performance.

Sejosengwe's e-mail was sent out "by direction of the chief justice" and "requested" the presence of judges including the judge president of the Supreme Court of Appeals, Lex Mpati, the judge president of the Western Cape, John Hlophe, and the judge president of KwaZulu-Natal, Chiman Patel.

Mogoeng told the Business Day that he did not compel any judge to attend the course. He said the reports were doing a "disservice to our country" to "take things out of context and to sensationalise".

Judges ‘not compelled to attend conference’

Since 2005, a committee looking into allegations of racism in the judiciary, headed by former chief justice Pius Langa, had identified a need for leadership training for heads of court, he said.

"So when I saw this, I just thought: wow, here is an opportunity to expose those colleagues who are willing and able," Mogoeng was quoted as saying.

"Nobody was compelled to do anything."

According to the Mail & Guardian Online, a legal academic, who did not want to be named, said the language used in the email "was judicial language for 'you must go'".

The legal fraternity was reportedly astonished and outraged by the chief justice's order.

Mogoeng's spokesperson, Lulama Luti told the newspaper that none of the justices invited had attended the conference.

Comments
  • christo.stone - 2012-03-15 10:07

    And so Moegoe Moegoe starts his crap...

      Peter-Peter - 2012-03-15 10:27

      hahaha...so Christianity and the judiciary are ORDERED to go together?? their goes my dreams...yet another way the religion is FORCED upon people. Im not religious in any way or form...and practically the entire population that see no problem with murder, rape, abuse etc, cant POSSIBLY be christian or whatever...so what is the point? you going to put them under 'oath', when if they can do the crime, then what is wrong with a few vocal lies? If judges can drive drunk...ANC seniors tell police that when 'mandela dies, the whites will drop like flies'... Religion and the new SA, dont go hand in hand...its more of a smoke screen

      Squeegee - 2012-03-15 10:33

      Get a life people. Total overreaction. Just another excuse for Christian bashing.

      Marion - 2012-03-15 10:56

      @Squeegee - I'm a Christian but I will bash any Christian who abuses his position of power in this way.

      Squeegee - 2012-03-15 11:14

      Marion, the article is biased. For instance, it does not tell us if they all attended. This would have added weight to the "forced" argument. If they did not all attend then it would destroy the argument that they were compelled to attend. Sensationalism and bad reporting - probably political.

      Marion - 2012-03-15 11:20

      @Squeegee - none of them attended. Whether or not anyone attended is not the point. The point is that he appears to have issued that 'request' in his official capacity (via the chief director of court performance).

      zaatheist - 2012-03-15 11:43

      @Marion I wonder what Squeegee would post if it was Islam that was being forced on the judiciary?

      Rob - 2012-03-15 11:43

      Squeegee, before you start jumping to conclusions, try reading the article properly and then you will get a better grasp of what is going on!

      Makatikamusona - 2012-03-15 11:52

      Guys please get over yourself, what if Dr Maxwell was invited by someone else, would you guys have made the same noise you making now.

      ronheidtmann - 2012-03-15 13:13

      I'm sorry, but as far as I can remember South Africa is a secular state? What if you are an athiest, or Jewish, must you still go?

      bernpm - 2012-03-15 13:33

      Christo: "And so Moegoe Moegoe starts his crap..." Not at all....just quoted out of context :-))

      Marion - 2012-03-15 13:59

      @zaaetheist - I wonder too. But not only about Squeegee... (posted this in the wrong comment box originally)

  • deon.fourie - 2012-03-15 10:12

    I wondered how long it'll take for Moegoe's skeletons to come out. Let me guess what's next: Moegoe gets pissed off at the media for "sensationalism" and "lies". Moegoe scares the crap out of us by supporting the Secrecy Bill. Educated South Africans lose their minds. Rinse. Repeat.

      Martin - 2012-03-15 10:29

      2years like the rest of em

      Mzwandile - 2012-03-15 11:55

      @doen. Please don't try to be diplomatic, your actual questions is I wondered how long it will for whites to find fault to this black judge president.

      deon.fourie - 2012-03-15 12:12

      Mzwandile, oh yeah of course. It's definitely ALL because he's BLACK. I mean, the fact that he's inexperienced, popped out of nowhere, a religious bigot, and clearly an ANC puppet has nothing to do with my initial assumptions. *rolls eyes*

      Garth - 2012-03-15 12:16

      i'M swindle - you are a racist chop. SA found fault with this judge president long ago. It is only ignorant, racist anc supporters that are blind to his incapabilities.

  • Seducect - 2012-03-15 10:12

    And here I thought the state, courts & religion must be seperate from each other...

      zaatheist - 2012-03-15 10:19

      This must surely be challenged in the Constitutional Court. Where is the justice for non-evangelical Christians, Anglicans, Catholics, Muslims, Mormons, humanists, Hindus, Jews........ This is absolutely unacceptable.

      Michelle - 2012-03-15 11:06

      @ zaatheist Wow, godfrey. Only 6 friends on facebook... How sad and alone you must be in your little world.

      Sydney - 2012-03-15 11:14

      Regardless, zaatheist is right though. This is an injustice, in principle, to South Africans in general. Whatever their beliefs.

      Sydney - 2012-03-15 11:28

      @ Michelle "Godrey Jeerer" God Free Jeer-er This is a shell FB account for the sole purpose of posting.

      Garth - 2012-03-15 12:18

      @michelle - what does your post have to do with the price of eggs in Moscow in springtime?

  • Jonno - 2012-03-15 10:14

    Now that's just wrong.

  • BuzzM - 2012-03-15 10:19

    ,,,and this guy is supposed to be astute and just? Another waste of money! Who gets to pay for this waste of time? Let me guess... Us taxpayers?

  • Erich - 2012-03-15 10:20

    It will be most interesting to how many judges are going to heed this call up by this lay preacher. I think that JP Hlope and Judge Motola should definitely attend. The next prerequisite for appointment to the bench will probably be membership of his church. LOL (LMGA - lag my g.. af).

      Erich - 2012-03-15 12:26

      I am particularly wondering how the Muslim and other judges with no ties to christianity are going to react to this outrageous request.

  • Ian - 2012-03-15 10:21

    Take your religious beliefs, put them in a box and seal it up while you are on duty as a Judge. What you believe in is irrelevant to the Justice system, and bring those beliefs into play will seriously compromise a fair justice system.

  • Lebogang - 2012-03-15 10:23

    WTF????????

  • Kobus - 2012-03-15 10:27

    Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng I LIKE YOU !!!

      arthurbrigg - 2012-03-15 11:16

      Maybe you should ask him out on a date, you guys would make a great couple.

      cwboshoff - 2012-03-15 11:21

      And you are clearly an @ss, forcing any religion on anyone is wrong!!! Please take your relgion and keep it to yourself... If i ever land in court i will have my lawyer ask for a non-Christian judge because if this is the way a Christian conducts himself i want nothing to do with it!

      zaatheist - 2012-03-15 11:44

      Ja, ja, ja. And what you you post if he was peddling Islam?

      cwboshoff - 2012-03-15 12:03

      Well, he did not punt Islam did he? Actually you know what... get me a judge that is open minded enough to not factor religion into his rulings, meaning gimme an Athiest Judge!!!

  • Martin - 2012-03-15 10:33

    he is now biased and not fit to be a judge

      john.jacobs16 - 2012-03-15 10:42

      biased in what sense ,

      zaatheist - 2012-03-15 11:46

      He shows he believes in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, zombies flying through the air and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories. So what if a Jew, Muslim, agnostic or atheist has to appear before him?

      cwboshoff - 2012-03-15 12:10

      You mean a book similar to Harry Potter?

      Garth - 2012-03-15 12:23

      John? An avatar of Mad Bob Mac Rob and a man's name - confused much lady? Anyway, biased in that he is naming a religious side that he supports - prejudicial and all that.

  • msfletcher1 - 2012-03-15 10:37

    Somebody must be making money out of this somewhere. What kind of evangelical church? What is its connection to the ruling party? Who's paying? The taxpayers? Something smells suspicious.

      Guus Van Der Got - 2012-03-15 10:46

      More like something smells religious

  • Kagiso Tlhakung - 2012-03-15 10:40

    Judge Mogoeng wat a gr8t judge he is also God fearing and commited to God i like i like...Mogoeng for President

      Marion - 2012-03-15 10:59

      Being 'God fearing' does not give him the right to bring his religious beliefs into the judiciary - in his official capacity nogal.

      arthurbrigg - 2012-03-15 11:15

      Aaah so it IS all about fear. Ka-ching.

      Paul - 2012-03-15 14:53

      @ Marion. Allow me to quote a Hindu scholar in conversation with a british missionary in India. He said: Missionaries present the Bible as another book of religion. It is not another book of religion. I find in the Bible a unique interpretation of universal history - history of the whole creation, of the whole human race. It claims to tell the true story that gives meaning to human life. In that sense it is unique. There is nothing else in all religious literature that is similar. I think the claim the Bible makes is ridiculous. But if you are a Christian, and been invited into that story, why would you Christians reduce it to something less than that?” Perhaps Marion, I should ask you the same question. Jesus' claim to Lordship is universal. His reign though now veiled is nonetheless comprehensive. He rules over everything including the judiciary and as Christians we are called to witness to that, not in a bigoted or arrogant way, but with grace and serving love, just like our Lord. Judge Mogoeng's request was probably in line with that. He wants the best for the judiciary. He wants good leaders and the Biblical principles of leadership and especially the model of leadership that Jesus presented are excellent. We desperately need leaders who are committed to servant leadership as opposed to feathering one's own nest, who lead with integrity and a concern for people. The judge wasn't trying to convert his colleagues but assist them in being good leaders!

  • Martin - 2012-03-15 10:44

    alot of the other judges told him to get stuffed, its unconstitutional....viva those other judges

  • john.jacobs16 - 2012-03-15 10:45

    I THINK THE CHIEF JUSTICE WAS RIGHT , SOUTH AFRICA IS LARGELY A CHRISTIAN NATION , THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN INSTILLING SOME CHRISTIAN VALUES IN JUDGES, ITS ONLY PEOPLE WHO ARE USED TO CHRISTIAN BASHING WHO LIKE TO COMPLAIN, GET A LIFE YOU ANT- CHRIST

      rowan.maulson - 2012-03-15 10:55

      Just as a bit of a reality check here... The citizens of this nation may be largely christian, BUT there is a seperation of church and state for a reason. This is not about christian bashing or anything of the sort.... its about tolerance and living in a free country where we are all allowed to practice whatever religion or non-religion we choose without having to fear living in a theocracy.

      Antipoaching - 2012-03-15 11:12

      It is completely unacceptable to try to force the Justices to attend this workshop/training thingy... The State, The Judiciary and Religion maintain their independance in order that personal agenda's cannot be foisted by one entity upon another.... well done Judges for not attending!

      Garth - 2012-03-15 12:25

      This punter of christian values is in fact a `lady dragon', with Mad Bob the Robber as her hero. Values?

      Moi - 2012-03-15 12:27

      What about the judges that aren't Christian? Why should they attend? As regards "Christian values", I think you'll find that many non-Christians actally have much better values and actually stick to those values, unlike many Christians.

  • rowan.maulson - 2012-03-15 10:46

    It was only a matter of time before Moegoe Moegoe's true colours started coming out... But, from reading the story, it seems that the Justice's that had been "invited" did the right thing and didn't attend the conference.

      Calvan - 2012-03-15 11:44

      Does anyone understand the concept that the entire western legal system is based on Roman-Greco law which was originally based on the 10 commandments. True story. THerefore, de facto, the legal and judiciary system is a CHristian based system. Nothing wrong with Judge Mogoeng's intentions. People should do some research before attempting to initiate critical debate. These comments are primarily sensationalist and ill-educated.

      Garth - 2012-03-15 12:27

      Calvan, Hobbes is calling you back into your make believe world. So the senates of the Greeks and the Romans pre 2000 years ago practised what?

  • Johnnie - 2012-03-15 10:50

    What a lot of nonsense,and then started by the judiciary.If the Chief Justice wants to belong to a certain religion, so be it, leave other people out. In this country we have enough religion, we do not need any from America. I suppose this preacher was chased away there.

  • Wellington - 2012-03-15 10:53

    Jesus is Lord. Any country separeted from Jesus is dead. Surely it's only fools that say they is no God. Jesus will rule forever whether people will admit it or not.

      rowan.maulson - 2012-03-15 11:00

      Ummmmm really? So countries that have distinct seperations of church and state are dead?.. are you counting all the asian tigers, and super powers as dead then?

      zaatheist - 2012-03-15 11:50

      And still another Xian twit. And what you post if he was peddling Islam?

  • Marion - 2012-03-15 10:54

    Isn't this the guy who said God had told him he would be Chief Justice. Done in his official capacity and totally unacceptable. Sejosengwe's e-mail was sent out "by direction of the chief justice" and "requested" the presence of judges including the judge president of the Supreme Court of Appeals, Lex Mpati, the judge president of the Western Cape, John Hlophe, and the judge president of KwaZulu-Natal, Chiman Patel.

  • Lebogang - 2012-03-15 10:59

    I want to believe this is a lapse of judgement from chief justice.

      Garth - 2012-03-15 12:28

      Nothing to `believe', just know it!

  • Graham - 2012-03-15 10:59

    Might be good for them to be taught MORAL principles. When you truly know Jesus, your heart will change. Are you guys afraid of Good Morals.

      arthurbrigg - 2012-03-15 11:26

      I don't believe in any religion and I have great morals, ask anyone. I've been doing charity work for 16 years, working mainly with underprivileged kids. Have you been moral enough to sacrifice most of your private life and even some of your working life to help others in need (Bible thumping and prayer doesn't count as constructive in my books). Interesting that you think your fairy-tale is the yardstick for morals - sadly you are deluded.

      Patrick Saunders - 2012-03-15 11:26

      no, graham, they are afraid we'll return to a time when the ng kerk ruled this country. You remember that time, don't you?

      cwboshoff - 2012-03-15 11:35

      Moral principals and leadership workshops are fine, but you should leave religion out of it, you don't have to be a christian to be a good leader or good person, being good has nothing to do with religion, in fact i'd say ther are more corrupt christians in leadership roles than any other religion in this country. So please tell me how their christianity makes them god people or good leaders??? Religion and state should stay seperated, it's just better that way!

      poaul - 2012-03-15 11:36

      The same morals that burned people at the stake, or the kind that rapes children nowadays?

      zaatheist - 2012-03-15 11:51

      And still another Xian twit. And what you post if he was peddling Islam?

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-15 12:06

      Myth morals come from the Bible. Fact you believe in a God that kills babies , condones killing of [gays , atheists , non-believers , witches and rape survivors that don't shout , lying sons]. A God that asked for animal and human sacrifices and will ultimately destroy the world killing everyone except the saved. And your sick twisted mind can't wait for it. Damn the man.

      Brigitte - 2012-03-15 16:16

      @jody - The things you mention are taken from the Old Testament. Jesus came to redeem man of his sins and by following Jesus we find the Kingdom of Heaven. Hence CHRISTians. Christians should follow the teachings of Jesus. Before Christ there were no Christians - get it?

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-15 19:10

      @Brigitte but Christians still believe in the creation story, is that now not relevant anymore , or when the pastor references the old testament, do you say but that's crap , Jesus changed everything. Its in the Bible and Christians claim it to be fact so it must be a good description of your God! If what you say is true then Creationism and ID were just proven false , thanks. Damn the man.

  • Ben - 2012-03-15 11:00

    This judge must have seen the similarities between Christianity and our laws.

      Zing - 2012-03-15 11:39

      There's a difference between christianity and our laws. Our laws are based on a constitution, and continually tested in court. Christianity is based on laws written 6000 years ago, and not updated since. Even though most christian ethics and laws are good, I would not go and look for leadership from an evangelical preacher. Noooooo!

  • freedom.mooketsi - 2012-03-15 11:03

    What a stupid story. The dumb media is trying to sensationalize this. The guy sent a request not a demand. In other words the invited had the right to say no. Get this through you thick skulls people.

      Lebogang - 2012-03-15 11:10

      The only way to guarantee your freedom, Freedom is to have non-sectarian state organs. Which is why it is advised that people of influence in these organs should refrain from expressing such views in their capacity as leaders of these orgens.

      Marion - 2012-03-15 11:24

      @freedom.mooketsi - if you want to invite people to a religious gathering you do it at home over a braai and you invite your friends. You DO NOT do it in your official capacity, particularly when you hold the most power.

      Susan - 2012-03-15 11:27

      Thank you Freedom. these people must learn to understand before they jump into saying all the ugly words!!! i'ts like people are always waiting for a story that"ll lead them to attack...

      cwboshoff - 2012-03-15 11:36

      He should not even have sent the request!

  • Keighley-Ann - 2012-03-15 11:09

    What a load of rubbish...since when is religion and justice hand-in-hand...this is not the dark ages for god's sake, there are millions of people who do not practice religion or faith, and yet remain ethical and follow the law to the T - what a load of bollocks! They could spend that money on education of the masses or wait, to improve water and sanitation in a community!

  • Sharon - 2012-03-15 11:09

    And this coming from a man who was lenient towards a child rapist because, in his opinion, the rapist was aware of the girl's age, and took care not to hurt her! http://mg.co.za/article/2011-09-02-mogoengs-shocking-child-rape-rulings

  • arthurbrigg - 2012-03-15 11:14

    Awesome, lets start burning witches again!

      cwboshoff - 2012-03-15 11:41

      Haha, I'll bring the matches lol :)

  • Buzz - 2012-03-15 11:14

    Absolutely blown away by this. No issue with people following their chosen religion, so long as they don't try to impose their religion or ideals on me. Would have expected a person employed at this level to have a basic understanding of not trying to incorporate religion into the system Very scary stuff:(

  • ludlowdj - 2012-03-15 11:19

    The days of religion being a part of anything are long gone, white Christians sold their faith a long time ago and any attempt now to return to the doctrines of the church must be viewed with suspicion and reserve lest we allow Christianity to return to the same narrow views and beliefs practiced by radical Muslims. Modern society must either forsake religion or accept its own demise, the human race simply cannot survive religion. You choices as a person are simple to be of service to others or be of service to yourself, good and evil are defined by these actions, a "good" person sacrificing for others, while a bad person will put their own needs above others.

      Marion - 2012-03-15 11:25

      @ludlowdj - 'white Christians'???

      arthurbrigg - 2012-03-15 11:28

      Well said.

      cwboshoff - 2012-03-15 11:45

      Yes Marion, the white people did take christianity to the world and forced it on many different peoples all over. I don't think this was meant as a racial comment, or at least i hope not.

      pieter.bosch - 2012-03-15 11:48

      Yes it was predominantly white Europeans and Americans that spread their virus across earth.

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-15 16:19

      @Barend Hayden so now the Bible owns the rights to right and wrong ? The Bile is not the b all and end all it was supposed to be. If you scrutinize it , it falls to pieces. Damn the man and stop lying for Jesus.

      Jco - 2012-03-18 04:29

      I do not think you know what is religion. Reading what you say is actually your religion. I would say you are actually religious! "Religion is what the individual does with his own solitariness." —A.N. Whitehead "One's religion is whatever he is most interested in." —J.M. Barrie, The Twelve-Pound Look (1910) THIS MEANS THAT TO BE AN AGNOSTIC OR ATHEIST IS A RELIGION! To be a argumentative person and indulge one to it, is also a RELIGION! What you actually reveal in your writing is your RELIGION, so welcome to the religious club!

  • Robert E Meise Esq - 2012-03-15 11:23

    Dont Cry freedom ........ Exercise freedom

  • marc.potgieter2 - 2012-03-15 11:27

    I am not religous and wait for the day when some so called Christian Judge tells me, do you swear to tell the truth etc... so help you God. I am going to say, I dont believe in your God... whats going to happen then?

      Marion - 2012-03-15 11:30

      @marc.potgieter2.... don't they actually ask you whether you consider the oath to be binding on your conscience etc.,

      arthurbrigg - 2012-03-15 11:30

      Hahaha! Good question :-)

      Sydney - 2012-03-15 11:38

      You are allowed to simply make an affirmation of I'm not mistaken.

      cwboshoff - 2012-03-15 11:47

      He will probably hold you in contempt (not sure of spelling.)

      cwboshoff - 2012-03-15 12:25

      I wonder what he'll say if you ask him... Which God? haha

      Jco - 2012-03-18 04:35

      I think you are walking with some unhealed issues in your life! You are actually very religious. To label religion as christian or muslim are so far as the east from the west. "Religion is what the individual does with his own solitariness." —A.N. Whitehead "One's religion is whatever he is most interested in." —J.M. Barrie, The Twelve-Pound Look (1910) THIS MEANS THAT TO BE AN AGNOSTIC OR ATHEIST MUST BE LABELLED AS A RELIGION! To be a argumentative person and indulge one to it, is also then a RELIGION!To believe in no God is also then a religion!

  • sally.lewitt - 2012-03-15 11:35

    Religion and Politics don't mix

  • Makatikamusona - 2012-03-15 11:40

    This is one of those craps reporting by news24. Firstly there is nothing wrong with the letter written, and does news24 even know who John Maxwell is, he does not describe himself as an evangelist maybe if the read his books and understand his philosophies. I think he is the best candidate to be invited to for a leadership conference, I think people must just learn to separate issues, is not like he is going to preach about the coming of Jesus or who do you think could have been the best candidate to be invited for the these kind of lecture/conferences. For me I am not a christian and do not go to church but I would not judge people I work with, colleagues, managers, junior based on their religious affiliation

      rowan.maulson - 2012-03-15 11:42

      Yes, but I'm guessing you work in the private sector where your religious leanings don't have an effect on the ENTIRE nation... Moegoe Moegoe's religious leanings do and have had an effect on people due to his decisions, and THAT is unacceptable.

      Makatikamusona - 2012-03-15 11:50

      @rowan.maulson what if Dr Maxwell was invited by someone else, would you guys have made the same noise you making now.

  • brionyl.french - 2012-03-15 11:41

    So a Judge cant be Jewish, or any other religion but Christian??? When Jesus was/ is the son of God and he was a JEW... THIS MAN SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED TO OPEN HIS MOUTH!!! He know nothing, probably cant even tell you want colour jocks he is wearing under his pants... Thats how stupid he is

  • brionyl.french - 2012-03-15 11:45

    Its official we are the laughing stock of the world! anyone read the British times today? They have a quote about South Africa and its " NEW GOVERNMENT" go entertain yourselves... this is how we are seen... we are now the toilet humour to the americans and the rest of the world

      Marion - 2012-03-15 14:09

      @brionyl.french ... can you supply the link. Haven't been able to find it on The Times site. Ta.

  • Trevor - 2012-03-15 11:46

    Religion, mysticim ,ancenstral beliefs , DON'T have a place in Modern day Law or politics. The law is the law and should be followed to the letter ! but unfortunately due to the corruption in our government our education levels have fallen and the only way to gain allegiance is FEAR mongering that its is the will of our ancestors or jesus christ or any of the mythical beings that want things done ! Creationism is a hot point in case ! Tell me if intelligent design by an all powerful, Omnipotent GOD was truth then we wouldn"t be such a sick society, we Evolved into the different people we are! Open your minds and evolve ! we all have such great oppurtunity to become the great species we could be be !

      Trevor - 2012-03-16 12:26

      @ Barend > you say that you are a Christian and yet you resort to derogatory name calling, very "Christian" of you! You say i can believe what i want to believe yet you tear it down saying there is NO scientific evidence - there are thousands of Data points that prove the theory of Evolution, 1 off the bat me and you EVOLVED differently due to knowing differnt parents and people through out our lives. You say that you believe what you believe without forcing it on others yet here you are telling me i'll end in purgatory and you won't- what kind of God is an all fearing god < i would "imagine" him to embrace all good people from all different religions ! The Bible is a beautiful book advising on good values! Believe in what you want to believe but take a good look in the Mirror before spouting you brainwashed teachings in a forum with intelligent people ! You said in and earlier post how can the be good and evil with no God or Devil< its simple by the consious decisions we make . Go have a Red Bull, you might earn your wings after all !

  • jody.beggs - 2012-03-15 11:48

    First the schools and now the judiciary. Christians need to stay at home and at church as away from "FREE" thinking society. I don't want a God botherers forcing there opinion on anyone without the "TRUTH" i.e. facts. Its time to educate people to thinks for themselves , we need less sheeple. Unless you allow all the CULTS access to the judiciary and schooling system , you can't push one idea as fact and ignore the rest. Damn the man.

  • Frank - 2012-03-15 12:08

    This type of nonsense raises serious doubts about his intelectual capacity and his ability to hold such an important position.

  • Philip - 2012-03-15 12:32

    Well done , so at last we get a true and real judge. The only law is the Bible laws. The more we all turn to Christian laws as set out in the bible and New Testament in particular the beteer for the worls. Is sad to see the people oposing Gods really do this out stupidity and because they dont simply dont understand the Bible. Follow our KING Jesus.

      arthurbrigg - 2012-03-15 12:48

      I'll post what I said before: First of all you make the ASSUMPTION that non-religious people inherently have no moral code, which is downright arrogant and insulting. I think religious people are weak because they need a "God" and a handy rule-book to keep them in check, they have to gather once a week and remind themselves to be good people - obviously the law of the country isn't enough for you folk. Perhaps you're all degenerates who need that extra help to remain moral?

      Marion - 2012-03-15 14:05

      @Philip - I agree with aardvarkie that to assume (because that assumption is clear) that non-religious people have no moral code is arrogant and insulting. As a Christian I see the Bible as a guide. So many people who claim that others don't understand the Bible actually don't understand it themselves. Better to understand the nature of God (which is Love inter alia) than take every word in the Bible at face value just cos the preacher man said it is so.

      Jco - 2012-03-18 04:45

      Good on you Philip, many of the things people write is only because of unhealed issues in their own lives. They only try a new religion making known what they now believe. What they state by attacking christians is revealing their religion. "Religion is what the individual does with his own solitariness." —A.N. Whitehead "One's religion is whatever he is most interested in." —J.M. Barrie, The Twelve-Pound Look (1910)

  • Jacqui - 2012-03-15 12:36

    Well it's better then a shebeen. Amen.

      cwboshoff - 2012-03-15 12:43

      And what's wrong with a shebeen with a legal liquor license? I'll be at that shebeen, having fun, thanks! :)

  • rowan.maulson - 2012-03-15 13:01

    @makatika It makes no difference who invited him, the fact that Moegoe Moegoe sent out a "request" that the senior judicial staff attend his course is what is at issue here. There is no issue with having a Christian or Islamic or Jewish based leadership course, but there is an issue trying for get our judicial staff to go on those types of leadership courses. The leadership courses that they should be going on must be neutral from a religious point of view.

  • j.c.s.mailbox - 2012-03-15 13:17

    Sounds like a good start, to get them in line with the Big JUDGE rules. And the laughers and scoffers will one day bite of their own tongues, when His day of Judgement appears....

      arthurbrigg - 2012-03-15 13:28

      Are you going to fall on the floor and start twitching now?

  • Johana - 2012-03-15 13:29

    No he started during the enquiry, when he stated that God wants him to be Chief Justice.

  • Dakey - 2012-03-15 15:03

    Anti Christian article for the day @News24 - Check. Wonderfull how 'requested to be available' is interpreted as 'ordered'. Typically an order does not go hand in hand with confirmation of attendance, but then none of these rediculous articles make much sense these days. Subject: Leadership event with Drs John Maxwell and David Molapo http://johnmaxwellonleadership.com/2009/06/08/how-successful-people-think/ Very evangelical, note how many times the word 'God' is mentioned...

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-15 15:20

      Anti everything except Christian comment. Check.. If the top knob in your business sends out a memo requesting you do something. You can ignore it but he pays the salaries and hopefully does an assessment on your skills according to thing he has asked. So what do you do .... Give him the finger or just do what he wants. If it were a private personal request from the man, OK , but on official letterheads is just not called for. Damn the man.

      Dakey - 2012-03-15 15:47

      @Jody There are two seriously mistakes. 1. No-one was ordered, they were requested. -> There is no cause for alarm and no reason to suggest unfair play. This is all unfound. 2. As demonstrated, the course was about 'leadership'. If your company is going to hold an event where the Dalai Lama is the keynote speaker discussing the political situation in Tibet... perhaps you'll say they're forcing you to become a Buddist! This is just another article highlighting the journalistic brain-drain in South Africa. No author attributed to this article, clearly just another COPY & PASTE job by News24. For the first time in my life, I actually start to feel sympathy for the ANC if THIS is what they have to put up with on a daily basis. No wonder they want to amend the constitution! Perhaps media companies should start looking at News of the World to see how NOT to run a company?

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-15 16:21

      Its the fact it was done at an official level and please just because the website is PC it will still start with a prayer. Damn the man.

  • Fanie Oosthuizen - 2012-03-15 15:39

    No religion = No moral values.

      jody.beggs - 2012-03-15 16:24

      Myth morals come from the Bible. Fact you believe in a God that kills babies , condones killing of [gays , atheists , non-believers , witches and rape survivors that don't shout , lying sons]. A God that asked for animal and human sacrifices and will ultimately destroy the world killing everyone except the saved. And your sick twisted mind can't wait for it. Damn the man.

      Patrick Saunders - 2012-03-17 06:14

      simple as that, fanie? 2-dimensional thinking like that is what causes problems in the first place. I'm sure that torquemada thought he was quite moral when he oversaw his inquisitions but history has proved otherwise.

  • Gcwabe.KaMavovo - 2012-03-15 15:43

    Why do they make say, "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So help me God" when testifying in court? Why is "lying under oath" an offence in a secular country?

  • Linda - 2012-03-16 11:10

    Does being a Christian disqualify John Maxwell from holding a leadership conference? The media is biased against our Chief Justice - they forget that he also has a constitutional right to be a Christian. Anyway, John Maxwell is a wellknown speaker on leadership and SA book-stores are full of his books.The majority of South Africans call themselves Christians so it is natural that we should be represented by a Christian chief justice. On the other hand, the media's anti-Christian bias is anything but objective.

  • MikeFraser - 2012-03-17 21:48

    This is such a childish and malicious attempt to taint everything Chief Justice Mogoeng does with controversy. Anybody who cares to know will admit that John Maxwell is the leading author and teacher on Leadership. He has written more books than anyone on Leadership, and he facilitates seminars and workshops on the topic around the world. And he is in high demand. Why must the fact that he also happens to be a "Christian" Pastor be an obstacle for people to appreciate John Maxwell's very sound and very necessary teachings on Leadership. These arguments are so superficial they stink.

  • Jco - 2012-03-18 04:18

    What is religion? Religion is extremely difficult to define. We think we know until ask to define in! Many attempts have been made, however, and while every theory has its limitations, each perspective contributes to our understanding of this complex phenomenon and still it is not defining what it is. See what some say: "Religion is what the individual does with his own solitariness." —A.N. Whitehead "One's religion is whatever he is most interested in." —J.M. Barrie, The Twelve-Pound Look (1910) THIS MEANS THAT TO BE AN AGNOSTIC OR ATHEIST IS A RELIGION! To be a argumentative person and "throw" one to it, is also a RELIGION!We think religion is only christian or muslim, but is it religion in the true sense of meaning?

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