AS IT HAPPENED: Ramaphosa at the Farlam Commission

2014-08-11 14:00

Shouts of "blood on his hands!" rang out as Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa testified at the Farlam Commission of Inquiry.

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Last Updated at 07:41
11 Aug 16:24
And that's where we'll close updates. We'll be back tomorrow when Ramaphosa returns to the inquiry. Cheers.

11 Aug 16:19

11 Aug 16:13

11 Aug 16:05
And with that, the commission adjourns. Back tomorrow (Tuesday) at 09:00.

11 Aug 16:04
Ntsebeza: Your legal team, Mr Ramaphosa, is not reflective of South Africa.

11 Aug 16:02
CR: I certainly did not expect police action.

11 Aug 16:00
Ntsebeza asks if CR couldn't foresee that deploying heavily armed police to deal with armed miners that they'd be killing.

11 Aug 15:59
Matters of deployment of police is not something I'm knowledgeable in or an expert in. I wanted to prevent situations in which more people were getting killed, says CR, who now sounds irked.

11 Aug 15:54
CR denies characterising the strike as criminal wasn't intended to break the strike.

11 Aug 15:51
Ntzebeza says CR and Lonmin may have been keen that the emphasis should shift from negotiation to police deployment.

11 Aug 15:50
Ntsebeza says CR succeeded in getting Shabangu to change characterisation of entire strike as criminal. CR agrees.

11 Aug 15:47
CR: What was of concern to me was that people were being targeted and killed. That was my primary concern.

11 Aug 15:45
CR says he doesn't know what the content of the discussion between Shabangu and Roger Phillimore, Lonmin's board chair, was.

11 Aug 15:40
Are there lights constantly blinding Ntsebeza? He near constantly covers his eyes with his hands.

11 Aug 15:38
Further loss of life needed to be prevented, CR says.

11 Aug 15:38
I believed that acts of targeting people in the way that they were was criminal in its nature, says CR.

11 Aug 15:37
CR denies there was a concerted effort by Lonmin to avoid higher wages

11 Aug 15:33
Ntsebeza: Lonmin's agenda was to get police to break strike to avoid negotiating higher wages.

11 Aug 15:27
CR: I think Lonmin had sense that some of the workers wanted to go back to work, Jamieson would be best placed to answer.

11 Aug 15:25

Tea adjournment over.

Ramaphosa: I wouldn't know whether he (Jamieson) meant those things but I understood he meant police were needed to calm the Marikana area.


11 Aug 15:01
And now a 15 minute adjournment for tea.

11 Aug 15:01

Ntsebeza: Jamieson was keen to get political involvement to get the police and army to be brought in to stabilise the situation.

CR doesn't agree that Jamieson was calling for political intervention. Says he just wanted to situation to be stabilised.


11 Aug 14:57
CR: Jamieson was suggesting that it would be best if there was political intervention and for police to stabilise situation.

11 Aug 14:55
Ntsebeza says Jamieson took issue with Shabangu calling events at Marikana a mere labour dispute.

11 Aug 14:50
Ntsebeza now refers to an email from Lonmin's Albert Jamieson to Ramaphosa in which Jamieson points to criminality during strike.

11 Aug 14:46
Ntsebeza returns to the email by Ramaphosa to Roger Phillimore saying he had already spoken to Shabangu about her silence.

11 Aug 14:40
CR accedes that, objectively speaking, nothing stopped him from intervening in wage negotiations.

11 Aug 14:39
Ntsebeza asks CR if he didn't intervene because of protocol.

11 Aug 14:38

If you had decided to do something (negotiating) there was nothing stopping you, says Ntsebeza.

CR responds that he should feel flattered that Ntsebeza thinks his role is more important than it was. All you can do as a non-exec is bring things to the attention of the company, he says.


11 Aug 14:36
Ntsebeza to Ramaphosa: You were uniquely placed to influence all the parties and stakeholders to reach an amicable solution.

11 Aug 14:35
CR: I was just a non-executive director, not involved in wage negotiations or day to day running of Lonmin.

11 Aug 14:33

11 Aug 14:31
CR said he was not told by Lonmin management that Mathunjwa went to the koppie on 15 August accompanied by police.

11 Aug 14:30
Ntsebeza: It's been shown Amcu was not part of incitement of violence, but Lonmin believed Amcu incited violence.

11 Aug 14:28
Ntsebeza says Amcu had made repeated attempts to meet with Lonmin management and had that happened strike would've ended.

11 Aug 14:23
CR: NUM itself was not involved because workers were not confident in union anymore.

11 Aug 14:23

Ntzebeza says the fact that he didn't have Amcu's contact details is not a reason for not meeting with them.

Surely CR could have got the contact details? In his position I don't imagine that's difficult to do.


11 Aug 14:21
Ntsebeza asks CR why he didn't try contact AMCU. CR says he knew NUM leaders and had their contact details.

11 Aug 14:17
Both Ntsebeza and CR chuckle as the advocate tries to get him to agree that he is indeed a skilled negotiator. They're going on quite a bit about this...

11 Aug 14:14

In view of NUM's succeses under your leadership, in your role in negotiations, it goes without saying that you're a skilled negotiator. You're nodding? Put modesty aside, you must agree with that, Ntsebeza says to CR.

CR says it's a description he finds difficult to deal with as it might be a bit over-stated. I tend to be a bit modest, he says. When I work with other people I'm able to be effective.


11 Aug 14:13
Ntsebeza: In spite of the fact that there were moments we thought peace couldn't be achieved, you kept negotiating.

11 Aug 14:12
Ntsebeza now goes through Ramaphosa's successes in ANC negotiations towards the end of apartheid.

11 Aug 14:10
Ntsebeza: I was a bit troubled that you suggested that negotiations in the midst of a turbulent situation are not possible.

11 Aug 14:04
CR agrees that there's still a long way to go to secure mineworkers' rights and dignity.

11 Aug 14:03
CR: I think the overriding achievement was giving mineworkers dignity.

11 Aug 14:03
CR says one of mineworkers' victories was to organise themselves. The other was failure of the industry to crush the union.

11 Aug 14:01
Ntsebeza asks Ramaphosa to outline some of the victories he achieved as NUM General Secretary.

11 Aug 14:00
More scenes from Miners Shot Down are shown. It shows CR leading strikes to change the conditions of mineworkers. 

11 Aug 13:59
Ntsebeza asks CR that poor living conditions & small wages have always been a feature of mining: I agree, says Ramaphosa.

11 Aug 13:56

Ntsebeza will now play an exert from the documentary Miners Shot Down. Ramaphosa (CR) was interviewed in this film.

In the clip CR accuses the Chamber of Mines of pioneering oppressive working conditions.

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