Pauper's burial for French killer couple

2011-01-25 22:40

Johannesburg - The French couple who died in Karoo last week will be buried as paupers in South Africa, the Hawks said on Tuesday.

"The French embassy has decided that it will not take full responsibility for the burial," said spokesperson McIntosh Polela.

The couple, Philippe Menière, 60, and Agnes Jardel, 55, died on Thursday after police found them in a building on Hardie farm.

Jardel's brother, said Polela, had also agreed that she be buried in South Africa. He could not say when the burial would take place.

An autopsy has been conducted on the bodies.

Menière and Jardel were on the run for six days after allegedly shooting dead student Constable Jacob Boleme and wounding Warrant Officer Glenwell du Toit.

The couple were believed to have belonged to a survivalist cult.

Acted professionally

The Independent Complaints Directorate was investigating the shooting incident in the Karoo town of Sutherland last week.

French consul Antoine Michon told The Star newspaper on Tuesday that the police did offer the French couple who died in the Karoo a chance to surrender.

"We were told they were offered terms to surrender... I was told by a senior official," Michon said.

"We have no reason to believe the police did not act professionally."

The police would not say if they had been shot dead by police, if they had committed suicide or if they had been given a chance to surrender.

"They were shot in a house on the farm, and certified dead," said Lieutenant Colonel Hendrik Swart, declining to give more details.

Michon said Menière was 30 and Jardel 25 when they first arrived in South Africa.

"He was a medical doctor in France and worked for a pharmaceutical company. He had a good job. We don't have much information about her in France but she was very young when she left, 25, so probably recently finished university. They were both from Paris," Michon told The Star.

  • Leica - 2011-01-25 23:47

    "We were told they were offered terms to surrender... I was told by a senior official," Michon said and n sentences later: The police would not say if they had been shot dead by police, if they had committed suicide or if they had been given a chance to surrender. so how the F*** can the assumption been made that they have beem given the change to surrended? so the only assumption i can make is that they were murdered by the trigger happy police without any change of surrendering!! just like the farmer that was shot in the back in natal!!!

      braveinternetguy - 2011-01-26 00:01

      To clarify it for you somewhat - the SAPS have not released an official statement yet, but Antoine Michon, who had spoken to the SAPS, is being quoted. You're not only making the assumption, you're also drawing a conclusion based on it, and you've reacted quite vehemently to something which may be entirely imaginary, by your own admission.

      Howzitekse - 2011-01-26 00:56

      Leica, What do you suggest the police do when these violent whackjobs shoot at them?

      Anton - 2011-01-26 05:53

      screw the chance to surrender!! You take a life, yours MUST be taken!!

      brianR - 2011-01-26 07:04

      Leica, you were the favourite tool of war correspondent Robert Cappa. I am sure he would have been there right in the thick of things, had he not stepped on a landmine. He would then have been able to give us his opinion of what happened and supplied us with some graphic photos. Unlike you, forming your opinions based on 2nd hand information.

      Susannomore - 2011-01-26 07:32

      The French Consul said they had been given the chance to surrender. The police (SAPS) have not issued a statement or spoken about it. Are you so desperate for the police to be wrong??? They had an arsenel and had killed a person. If the police had left them to it, you would have had a problem with that too?

      Perfume - 2011-01-26 07:56

      And they were also trigger happy, or have you forgotten they shot dead a policeman and wounded another!!!!!!

      Law Abiding - 2011-01-26 09:34

      You are supposed to be assumed innocent until proven guilty. Unless the police decide to shoot. That seems to be the proof of guilt. If a private citizen is approached by a corrupt police officer and has to use force for self-defence, you are immediately branded as guilty and will be hunted down like some rabid animal. We really have entered the surrealistic in our beloved South Africa. Innocence or guilt is not relevant anymore. Just the results.

      WhySoAngry? - 2011-01-26 10:32

      @Law Abiding - Seriously innocent until proven this case? THE SHOT AND KILLED A POLICE OFFICER! I'm not saying the police should go around shooting criminals...but when the suspect/criminal is armed, dangerous and have killed before in the same situation they have the right to use lethal force to protect themselve

  • veld66 - 2011-01-26 00:56

    Did you want them to be buried with FULL MILITARY HONOURS???? they should give them to the French embassy instead of wasting burial space!!

      pinkalert - 2011-01-26 09:24

      I agree with you, they are french and should be buried in france. The french should pay from there bodies to be flown back (or cremated and ashes returned) - burial space costs money, unless the french are willing to pay for that.

      CatvonH - 2011-01-26 14:25

      The french don't want them !

  • cam - 2011-01-26 01:06

    @veld...the french embassy themselves declined the 'honour' of doing their burial. @leica...they shot dead a police man(jacob boleme), who was someones husband, son and father, criminals dont offer terms of surrender to victims do they? what would you have the police do if your husband, father was shot dead and they find the criminals responsible? make sweet talk? baby talk them? the police would negotiate but if things get out of hand and crims open fire, they would shoot back. so get over your double standards.

  • Warren - 2011-01-26 01:30

    They had already shown that they were ready, willing and able to shoot to kill police officers. What else do you expect?

  • moderfontein - 2011-01-26 01:35

    The couple were trapped inside a what was nothing more than a farm shack , the police heavily armed in large numbers had then trapped , their was no way out. They could if they wanted to preserve life , have starved them into surrender, used stun grenades etc. In normal seige situations in civilised countries , negosiators are used. This did not have to end in death. A decesion was made by someone to excute them , its plain and simple. Just last year , several bank robbers were trapped in a Joburg bank , they were not shot to death , why?, they were allowed after hours of negosaiation to surrender. Also shame on you the French embassy for not allowing your own people at least a proper burial.

      Magoo - 2011-01-26 05:07

      Idiot. Liberals like you are ruining our society. They shot and killed a police officer, and you want them alive? And if they were not white frenchies??

      Anton - 2011-01-26 05:55

      twit!! They got what they deserved!

      wesley.raleigh - 2011-01-26 06:42

      Brilliant Magoo, play that race card. its new and hip.

      brianR - 2011-01-26 07:05

      were you there, mf?

      nonamejv - 2011-01-26 08:51

      They got what they deserved, at least police save all taxpayers money, which we would spend, if they been taken alive. Police did good job this time.

      pinkalert - 2011-01-26 09:27

      I am sure that in the bank - there were civilians, so that is why they had to negotiate. At the end of the day, these people killed other people - the moral of the story, if you can kill someone, then karma is a bitch.

      Valkerie - 2011-01-26 12:24

      I think this is more a question of staying consistant with one's actions. It's very easy to speculate on what the Police's motivation for their actions were. If one of the team members were shot indiscriminately, then surely one would consider these people as "armed and dangerous". You don't take a knife (megaphone) to a gun fight! Past actions do, in most cases, predict future actions, I'm afraid. The police would have been stupid to ignore the threat. Let's not be too quick to hang those who made the decisions shall we? Also, consider that these folks might very well have been less than rational to start with: a state of affairs that should be mourned and pitied. I dare speculate that they came into this state by just living and breathing our SA crime statistics... It's enough to make any person weep, to say the least. Pity them, and let them rest. They've paid the ultimate penalty for what they did.

  • slg - 2011-01-26 01:41

    What a narrow, superficial headline. Not everyone wants to be buried "like a rich person". Funny. What a thought.

  • Anton - 2011-01-26 05:52

    A chance to surrender? Are you joking? These people shot a police officer dead . . no chance to surrender . . they got the end they deserved . . .case closed . . move on to catching some of the rapists in the country now pls.

  • ArtGee - 2011-01-26 06:10

    Cremate them.... couple of ashes are much easier to get rid of than a body!!!!

      Greg - 2011-01-26 07:11

      Agreed. Why waste space. And when they're burned, throw the leftovers into the bin!

      ArtGee - 2011-01-26 07:55

      Use their ASHES to fill the POTHOLES!

  • 4Safety - 2011-01-26 06:25

    Leica, Did you want the police to wailk up and knock on the door just to be shot again?? Police, thank you for keeping us safe!!

  • jannie.debeer - 2011-01-26 06:26

    Suicide or shootout, it does not matter. Just give us the truth, we can handle it.

  • Meyer - 2011-01-26 06:43

    "Pauper's burial" What a deranged way to sell papers? To all of you people out there gracing us with your stupid opinions... You're lights are going to go out as well... Hopefully not as "Pauper's"

      damascus76 - 2011-01-26 08:33

      What a legacy they will leave, what could have made them do something like this. Surely they must have had some contact with people all these years. Hope these people come forward to give us some light. Really tragic.

      moderfontein - 2011-01-26 13:10

      Two old folk in , trapped in a tin shack , surrounded by dozens of police, no where to run , and some brave big boy decided rather than starve them out , talk them out, use stun grenades , tear gas etc and convince them of their hopeless situation, he decided to blast the old folk with a least 60 rounds , according to reliable sources. Yes it is alleged that they shot a police officer in a seprate incedent, but we will never ever know the full facts of that incedent either as they are now dead and unable to be be brought to trail. The silence of the police in disclosing any real information makes people suspiciuous that they either hideing something or going to use time o plan a cover up of their shoot to kill policy. Real Questions must be answered , regarding. 1. Did any negosations take place. 2. If yes , were they told of their hopeless situation and how long did the negoastions last. If none took place why not. 3. There is just to many unanswered questions as regards what really took place at the tin shack. If the couple committed suicide as alleged by some , then impartial ballist test must be carried out . If these old folk were members of my family I would leave no stone unturned to get the real truth of what really took place at the tin shack , surrounded by dozens of highly trained and armed police. Those idiots posting filth and abuse about the couple are sick, and its little wonder S. Africa is in the state it is today.

      brianR - 2011-01-26 13:46

      MF, it wasnt a tin shack

  • Nookie - 2011-01-26 07:31

    Leica - do you live in la la land?? Perhaps you should try to organise a day at work with a police officer, let me tell you it is no walk in the park!!! Trigger happy??? Be on the other end of a firearm when you the one being shot at - at that stage of the game you will do anything to protect your own life!!! The policeman shot was someones father, son, grandson, uncle and husband!!!

  • khulumasizwe - 2011-01-26 07:34

    Kill the Fkn bustards, miners one problem.

  • mrpatras - 2011-01-26 07:35

    I tend to agree with Leica. It does not matter if they deserved to die, what it matters how cretinous are the SA police. It is just a simple balistic and forensic investigation to determine if they shot themselves or the police did. If they were dead when they were asked to surrended, it means that police started shooting without getting an answer, which points out again to how stupid is the new south african police.

      brianR - 2011-01-26 07:53

      So you mind is made up about "how stupid" the new saps is, regardless of the outcome of the investigation?

      ArtGee - 2011-01-26 07:57

      The COPS just shot these people, they could not RUN after them, as their OBESITY is a handicap!

      Janine - 2011-01-26 08:02

      Would it not be prudent to wait and see what the police investigation actually reveals before making cretinous comments here?

      African'shtr - 2011-01-26 12:48

      "shoot to kill", tooth for an tooth" words by Bhekiki cele he said if you shoot at police officer you will get shot also so why are you blaming our police force for doing the right job.

  • fanie.buddha - 2011-01-26 07:57

    To surrender for what, so they can eat our tax money while in jail. In case like this police must shoot to kill, they have already killed one police officer.

  • Orosman - 2011-01-26 07:58

    More space taken up in our grave yard for murderers. Cremation should be the way and flush the ashes down the toilet.

      Mothibi - 2011-01-26 14:22

      Hahah ahahahahahaha...Like that

  • Perfume - 2011-01-26 07:59

    I dont care what burial they receive, if they were still alive, they would of continued their killing spree!!!!!

  • SYLVERSTAR - 2011-01-26 08:03

    A very unproffessional police opperation. Two old folks shot dead? WTF?

      kolz - 2011-01-26 08:36

      SYLVERSTA, so they were not old folks by the time they shot a Police officer, you just trying to blame SAPS or you just wanna be symphathetic needless though.You have a very low level thinking of an intellectual.

      jon lol - 2011-01-26 09:12

      DUMB ASS.... WTF

      Paul - 2011-01-26 09:17

      There was an article in an American site where the press asked a Sheriff why he shot a cop killer 47 times. His answer : That is all the ammunition I had. Seriously go to war with police anywhere on the planet you are asking for this outcome.

  • The_Truth - 2011-01-26 08:10

    If the "struggle veterans" can get a decent funeral, what was wrong with doing the same for this couple? After all, they are all murderers

      allie - 2011-01-26 08:23

      I wonder what the outcome would have been if they were ANC supporters? Just asking.

      KO - 2011-01-26 08:33

      WTF do people want? when police are unable to catch or even kill criminals people are up in arms about their incompetence, when they catch or kill the criminals people also complain. People let's get rid of the f%$#*ng racist minds and think objectively for a change. Those in support of these dead crims are f%$#*ng disgusting & you don't belong in this country you twats!!

      lydia.christenson - 2011-01-26 08:37

      no one deserves to die like this - not even the young police officer they shot!!! isnt it amasing how the so-called cult in the US has now walked away from the couple??? I am sure however - they got somekind of payemnt at some point - from the couple - now when the chips are down - the cult washes it hands and denies responsibility. makes you think about cults...and just how many of these are in SA already..... shocking people are so stupid they just follow blindly and get consumed like this.

      jon lol - 2011-01-26 09:16

      the truth wtf are you talking about? cant news24 just ban you from this forum, you a disgusting trouble seeking idiot WTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Mike - 2011-01-26 13:00

      It seems that the cops cannot win - if they don't perform then the likes of you want to know why - when they do their job you also complain. So WTF do you want? It like the jerks who are anti-abortion - but then let one of their daughtes be raped by a siff infested freek who is also a madman then the abortion must be done?? What do you jerks actually want?

  • KOD - 2011-01-26 08:39

    They had ZAR 30,000-00 in cash in a safe in their this not enough for a funeral or was it stolen so they are now paupers?

      Mike - 2011-01-26 13:08

      Yeah, that could be used for their burials - where is the money - the cops need to answer for it?!!!

  • siphosonke.ndlovu - 2011-01-26 08:48

    l just feel the police should have acted much better in this case....from the reports it is not clear what actual happened when the French couple shot the policemen, what happened? Also, the police resources that were attached to finding the French couple were a bit over the top! Why is it difficult to say whether the couple killed themselves or were shot by the police?

      Snoopy88 - 2011-01-26 10:08

      and like with most police action we will never really know the truth.

  • Rob - 2011-01-26 08:54

    This story is so tired honestly. Does News24 have nothing else to report about? Stop clutching at straws.

  • Cindy - 2011-01-26 09:03

    Hoe se hulle, Live by the sword, die by the sword

  • Paul - 2011-01-26 09:03

    Should have buried them down an unused crown mineshaft. Would have only cost us a tank of petrol.

      Snoopy88 - 2011-01-26 10:07

      you are F*cking scary.

      Perfume - 2011-01-26 12:29

      Scary is not the word lmao!!!!!!

      Mike - 2011-01-26 13:10

      Why transport the trash all the way from Sutherland to the mines in Gauteng - we already heave enough polution - so spare us this one. Thanks but no thanks!!!

  • Nice Guy - 2011-01-26 09:19

    If they are french citizens their bodies must be dumped at the door of the French Embassy. Perhaps as a courtesy to the French we should have their bodies guilotined and then thrown over the fence into the embassy premises or stuck on the gate poles of the french embassy

      63Starlight - 2011-01-26 12:52

      This is terrible. You are blaming a nation for 2 clearly psychotic people. Why should France take responsibility for their actions? SA allowed them entry and gave them what they needed to remain here ergo, it is not a French problem.

  • faxm88 - 2011-01-26 09:28

    If you balieve what the SAPS say you might as well sign an agreement with teh devil its hold the same value

  • Janus Nieuwoudt - 2011-01-26 09:29

    cowboy justice - why dont they shoot rapists too. And corrupt officials while they are at it??

  • Snoopy88 - 2011-01-26 10:06

    Ha ha that headline is so funny. Like the dead care if they are buried like paupers or gold coffins! Besides these two believed in reincarnation so they really don't give a continental.

      tantan - 2011-01-26 10:42

      Agree, It's a cultural thing. What's wrong with a paupers burial? or cremation? YOu're dead, who cares?

  • Mpho - 2011-01-26 10:08

    sometimes whites are unfair, in this case the offenders,the white couple was shot dead and most whites protect them, had this offence been committed by Darkies (Darkies killing whites)they will still protect whites, please guys let's be fair

      63Starlight - 2011-01-26 12:54

      OK, I have not read ANY comments protecting this couple. So where did you read that whites are protecting whites? Why is it when a "darkie" kills a white its considered a robbery. When a whitey kills a "darkie" its labelled racism? Answer me that.

  • Coen - 2011-01-26 10:11

    I agree with some of u guys as far as 'there's more to this than meets the eye',like 1- why did they live so alone with so much cash on hand 2- what were all the weapons for 3- what did he need the martial-arts training for 4- what transpired at the first police meeting causing them to start shooting and 5- what about the wounded officer what does he have to say,why does it take the police so long to give a coherent first report,something stinks on this

  • Alwyn - 2011-01-26 10:48

    All the computor potatoes,do you know how it feel to loose a Police member,I know because i were a cop for 24 years and lost a few friens black and white and the murderers of COPS such as Capt Myeni,Wayne Saunders of Richardsbay deserved what they got,and so should all cop killers

  • juanontheweb - 2011-01-26 10:57

    Sad but they got what they asked for! Simple

  • 63Starlight - 2011-01-26 12:39

    Psycho killers ... kiss could say fafafafa... fa... better run, run,run away..... oh oh oh.....So, what was the motivation for the shootings? They didn't like police?

      antoinette.vanderwalt - 2011-01-26 12:44

      I don't think so. They liked everybody. I think the police threatened them. That's the reason for this whole tragedy.

      brianR - 2011-01-26 14:00

      key word being you THINK...

  • antoinette.vanderwalt - 2011-01-26 12:42

    Clearly, the brother in France heard only one side of the story, as Michon. Once the whole truth is revealed, they will arrange for the two bodies to be taken to France for a proper burial. This is such a tragic story. The police caused these two people to behave like criminals. If they approached them in a proper way in the first place, they would never have gone so far as to fire at policemen. At least, they are together, and will be together for ever. They can be buried in a mutual grave.

      Mike - 2011-01-26 13:17

      Ag shame - you are so sweet. Do you read your Bible often and believe all the drech as well??

      Alwyn - 2011-01-26 13:43

      Seeing that you have all the facts on the Police miscondut would you please be so kind to inform the ICD ,Tragic is a Police officer that were killed by them,Tragic is that his loved ones does not deserve to be seperated from him,The two innocent Frenchies bodies should be donated to a medical Univarsity for study purposes,Then at least they contribute something meaningfull

      braveinternetguy - 2011-01-26 20:40

      @Mike - You're a coward.

  • hemant230778 - 2011-01-26 13:03

    You do get the fat and lazy Police men and women who like to sit in the comfort of the office, but the guys out there that respond to these kinds of situations are trained and fit and for the most part want to do the job they chose. If you cannot afford the private security and the police are your first and only line of defense, the police men and women that arrive are heroes. Bear in mind that these guys went into a situation where they knew that the couple had already killed one and were prepared to kill more. In this case return fire with fire. What I want to know is, why is it news what type of funeral they are getting?

  • francois.visagie - 2011-01-26 13:08

    Three people lost their lives, another person is wounded, countless others have been touched by heart-ache and trauma. Yet this series of events illustrates, on all sides of the fence, so many opportunities for avoiding a dreadful outcome, but human nature ensured that not a single one was used, by anyone. A human tragedy, in the true sense of the word.

  • moderfontein - 2011-01-26 13:22

    Stories are rife that the police decided to take out the old folk as if taken alive they would have been given their day in court as to their version of events about the killing of the police officer. Theres a hell of a lot more to this story than meets the eye. Little wonder so little information is being given. Dont be surprised if the police claim the old folk committed suicide. The fact that the authorites are planning to cremate them , stink to the high heavens of a cover up.

      brianR - 2011-01-26 14:02

      blah blah blah... were you there?

      Alwyn - 2011-01-26 14:22

      You are well informed,maybe you can share all the facts with us seeing that you know so much,o and remember to give info to the ICD

  • Thabo - 2011-01-26 13:56

    quick death penalty case

      Bitterblu - 2011-01-26 15:13

      It's so easy for people on the sidelines to have their opinions and think this and that and what happened and might have happened. Piont is: we weren't there - the police was and they reacted on the situation - Don't we all want the Police to be so efficient in all the cases? Let them do their work and keep the race card out of it - as long as people play the race card there will be a divide between us all. They shot a policeman and fled, if they were innocent why flee?

  • TruthSeeka - 2011-01-26 15:59

    A wise man once said...Fok'em

  • Bratt - 2011-01-26 16:10

    wow - they were living on that farm for free. And were killed because they refused to move out or pay. It seems even after death they are still parasites. I would seriously just give their bullet ridden bodies to medical students to practice serial killing on.

  • mozytoo - 2011-01-26 16:21

    Seems to me these South African cops were just itching to shoot. This couple should have been apprehended and taken in for a fair trial instead of being gunned down. Sounds mighty corrupt to me.

  • mozytoo - 2011-01-26 16:25

    So, from what I understand, a farmer complains to the cops about a "French" couple and the cops shoot them to death when they try to run from being slaughtered. Woah! Something's wrong with this picture.

      Paul - 2011-01-26 16:49

      yes, you dont understand

      braveinternetguy - 2011-01-26 20:37

      You're either an amateur troll, or you're seriously misinformed. You left out a pretty important part of the story - the fact that the man shot two police officers, killing one. That important little part of the story is almost two weeks old by now...

  • The_Truth - 2011-01-28 09:41

    And wahtever money they had is bequethed to the SAPS Widows and Orphans Fund

  • The_Truth - 2011-01-28 09:44

    If the so called ANC war veterans can be buried with honour, so can this couple. All were murderers

  • moongazer - 2011-02-01 15:56

    Ha ha ha! Oh The_Truth what a douche you racist. So are you, Leica. You too Moderfontein. And antoinette.vanderwalt you koeksister, you! The couple were armed and dangerous. Anywhere you go in the world, even in your precious developed nations, the police are afforded the right to shoot if the situation requires it. Naysayers, maybe if your precious 'innocent' old couple had not shot those two police officers, they would still be alive today for you to kiss and cuddle or whatever it is you thought they were good for. Gaa pthooo! Disgusted!

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