'Pretoria should stay Pretoria'

2010-02-12 08:01

Johannesburg - Pretoria should remain Pretoria, while the greater metropolitan area should be named Tshwane, the ANC Secretary General said in a report on Friday.

Gwede Mantashe told Beeld newspaper this decision would be ideal to everybody, but would only be achieved through negotiation.

"I see red when (civil rights movement) AfriForum insists that the city stay Pretoria and the city council insists the name be changed to Tshwane, because I know it will lead to confrontation," he said.

Arts and Culture Minister Lulu Xingwana recently placed a notice in the Government Gazette, announcing that Pretoria's name would be changed to Tshwane. She retracted the announcement in the Gazette a week later, after protests from several people, including AfriForum.

Mantashe said it was important that white Afrikaans speaking people protect that which is dear to them, but that they also needed to honour historic truths, like wars that drove out the original owners of the land.

He said Xingwana was going ahead with a public participation process about the possible name change so that everybody could contribute to the debate.

  • Gibson - 2010-02-12 08:18

    "...honour historic truths, like wars that drove out the original owners of the land.", I assume the wars he is refering to relates to the Mfecane, where Mzilikazi was slaughtering other black tribes while moving through the Transvaal region.

  • Petro Borchard - 2010-02-12 08:19

    At last, a wise "elder"!!!

    I used to feel strongly about keeping it Pretoria - more because of the total waste of money that it entails than about being attached to the name. The ANC always ends up doing exactly what they want, regardless of public opinion, so they'll most likely end up doing it in anycase. Sc...w the homeless who could have been provided with a house or clinics or whatever with the money squandered in the process of renaming.

  • Sambok - 2010-02-12 08:19

    Mr. Mantashe, are you referring to the "original owners" as the bushmen?

  • chris - 2010-02-12 08:19

    Gwede,well done you make clear sense. Not like Julius "the struggle victim" who is intending to take even the shirt off the white man's back and lead his way by confrontation. Time to work together people, as this is our home.

  • Jack - 2010-02-12 08:19

    No wonder there is no service delivery if this is the debate consuming the government

  • Shaun - 2010-02-12 08:21

    Mantashe, a voice of reason and logic seeming lost in this new 20 year old South Africa where "theft" of names buildings and facilities seems to be the only way the ANC can show some form of "development" Every individual has an emotional tie to something in SA, please respect this and compromise!This is what Madiba lived for was it not?

  • gloria - 2010-02-12 08:23

    whats in a name when we are dying of hunger, roads are full of pot holes and crime has an upper hand fix the roads and reduce unlawlessness before waisting money on name change.A name change means nothing to us the poorest of the poor.We want to feel safe and free in our own city!

  • Don - 2010-02-12 08:26

    Well, I never!!....let's see if they stick to what they say.

  • rayale - 2010-02-12 08:32

    So everytime we have a regime change we go on a name changing spree to suit the government in power bull dust. We must learn to work with what we have.
    Lets focus on building the economy, providing jobs feeding the poor and uplifting the poverty stricken instead of spending millions on name changes.

  • Eita - 2010-02-12 08:32

    Once again, buckling up under pressure, we should either press on with name changes or drop it once and for all. Anyway we need to change Cape Town, Bloemfontein, Kimberly, what do they represent???

  • Hannetjie - 2010-02-12 08:34

    AT LAST someone in Government is thinking rationally - stop the debate AND JUST DO IT !!!!!!!

  • Natty - 2010-02-12 08:35

    I think Mantashe is correct. the metropolitan area must remain Tshwane and city remain Pretoria. Pretoria name is very good for the history of the Country. I Know things have to change there and there, but this is Pretoria name is Memorial and History name.

  • Le'fufa - 2010-02-12 08:43

    Why are we focussing in name changed? focus on service delivery. You are waistng taxpayers money

  • J.P. - 2010-02-12 08:44

    If the Afrikaners did not settle in the Transvaal there would not be a city! Pretoria was built and created by the Afrikaners! Face the facts, ANC!: there was nothing before. You have no rights to change the city's name.

  • Dr Filemon - 2010-02-12 09:03

    That was the original idea that would be acceptable to everyone. Like P.E to Nelson Mandela Metro, E.L to Buffalo, Durban etc

  • Mr Doom - 2010-02-12 09:08

    What became of the promise Mbeki made in parliament to the people of this country that only offensive names will be changes, and that no person’s name would be used?

  • maverick - 2010-02-12 09:13

    who cares? pretoria used to be clean,well run and its finances were in order. now it is just another 3rd world slum. so by all means call it whatever you want least i will have wonderfull memories of a beautifull city once called pretoria.

  • JERRY TSHUKUDU - 2010-02-12 09:20

    what defference is it gonna make if change it tshwane? how much is cost? that is my home town, i like it in the way it is, PRETORIA. give the money to charities or build schools for our kids.

  • Charles - 2010-02-12 09:27!! i didnt know the poorest of the poor had access to internet let alone live in the!

  • Jan - 2010-02-12 09:29

    I found it very funny over the last few days when it was said that Nelson Mandela was released from Victor Verster Prison(whoever he may be)now called Drakenstein Prison. You know it is a fact that he was released from Victor Verster Prison, by changing the name and adding explanation is not going to change the fact or the history. I also find it hilarious that the provinces with the most name changes are the provinces with the poorest people, worst matriculation results en so on and so on. The reality is that we just came from a ressession, we have millions of our own and other countries' people who are starving. That money could have been spend very very wisely on other things. So please ANC, leave the name changes for the time when we can afford it, prioritise your spending into helping your own. At the end of the day it is your comrades who are suffering and you waste time and energy on silly things like changing the name of Pretoria, Victor Verster Prison, etc etc etc.

  • PTA - 2010-02-12 09:37

    I have a question....why would the government want to change Pretoria(City Name) to Tshwane(Municipal Name).

    Why not change Kempton Park to Ekhurhuleni then? or change all the other towns in this country to the municipal names?

    Why do you keep on trying to upset the people??? Do you want us upset.....up in arms like the people in Balfour...burning down the place and having the unrest until we get what we want? Bringing the city down to an economical halt.

    How will the poor World Cup visitors know where Tshwane is..

    Build houses, help the poor, fix the roads, build water purification stations stop wasting money on your Egotistical drive for "Improvement".

    Should we start to ask if one of your mates have a Map printing business, perhaps he prints sign post boards? Surely the drive could only be personal financial gain, because it makes no economical sense to change the name in this desperate times!!!

  • Gwede for Pres - 2010-02-12 09:49

    Gwede for President..! when JZ has to step down after another Baby Z. He seems to be the only sane voice in Gov, re Nationilization, name changes etc

  • Charl - 2010-02-12 09:49

    Not a bad statement. BUT, the truth is that the tribe of Tshwane that lived in the now known area as Pretoria left the region before the Voortekkers arrived there. So at the end of the day there is no real claim here and they know it.

  • Rushdi - 2010-02-12 09:54

    i've already emailed the minister asking her to ensure pretoria is eradicated from our names... and i've suggested kruger national park go too. mandela national park would be much more fitting; it's time we stopped tippy-toeing around afrikaners' oversensitive feelings and honouring dubious people who regarded 80% of the country as second-class citizens. it boggles the mind that our government still panders to afrikaner sulkiness after 16 years!

    change them ASAP!

  • domdom - 2010-02-12 10:02

    It makes sense to use both names as suggested. Name change will always be a source of strong feelings and should be treated with care.

    While on the subject of name changes, why isn't the name of Soweto which means South West Townships, a name given by the apartheid regime, not changed. OR the street names starting with NY in Guguletu in Cape Town?

  • JA - 2010-02-12 10:06


  • Lardus - 2010-02-12 10:13

    I have been saying this all along, metro=Tshwane, one of the cities inside metro=Pretoria. The metro idea is "new", so AfriForum won't care what the name is, just don't touch Pretoria ;)

  • Pieter - 2010-02-12 10:36

    I think that is a very sensible compromise.

  • TW - 2010-02-12 10:39

    Mantashe didnt see anything ("I see red" )when the Durban city manager decided to change street names to Ghe Guava and Comrade Uhambe Nini??! street and so on. Funny thing - that matter is still in court, the new names are still being defaced and the ANC are still as defiant as ever - so his comment about confrontation is a load of bull.

  • John - 2010-02-12 10:45

    In this world there are 2 types of people. Clever people and stupid people. 98% are stupid and you must decide which group you want to belong to. In this country we would rather talk about creating jobs, fixing potholes, nationalising the mines, wasting millions upon millions of tax payers money on stupid non-effective study groups, but never fulfill basic economic requirements to just survive. Then we have to put up with some bird-brain telling us about historical values that mean nothing today. Like Nero and a burning Rome and an out of tune fiddle, we would rtaher spend millions changing nanes than at whatever cost than creating markets. because only when you fiorst and foremost create markets then you can cretae jobs. no wonder we are headign down the road to Zim.

  • RamSet - 2010-02-12 10:47

    At last someone who understands. The name of the Metro Council does not have to be the same as the city. Check out eThekweni / Durban as an example.

  • @ Gibson - 2010-02-12 10:54

    Wrong!!! He's referring to the Voortrekkers driving out the Blacks out of the place,like they did throughout the country.

  • TRADER187 - 2010-02-12 11:12

    This is convenient cause if you don't want to use the name Pretoria because of its tarnished past and what it represents then you could always use Tahwane central or if your hell bend on forgeting a bloodshod past that has shaped this brilliant present and potential filled future - Pretoria / Tshwane!!! That these are the names of my city 'THE GREATEST CITY IN THE WORLD'.

  • Dieketseng - 2010-02-12 11:19

    There are really more important issues we should be focusing on as South Africans

  • kelvin munster - 2010-02-12 11:34

    good for you Gwede...good man...ANC needs more leaders like you..especially when you pull that young malema into line

  • Du Preez - 2010-02-12 12:14

    Is the request to change a name not supposed to come from the residents of a town? Why then is this name change of Pretoria constantly driven by ANC HQ based in Johannesburg? Why not change Jo'burg's name first then? This is driven by pure spitefulness not reconciliation.
    We should hold a referendum with only residents paying property tax being allowed to vote, this is the only way to ensure a fair vote. Afterall it will be our tax millions wasted on the process.

  • Charlene - 2010-02-12 12:27

    I agree with Gloria! There are so many things money can rather be spent on. So much need in SA...

  • MANDLA - 2010-02-12 12:40

    Mantashe is correct because this can also consume a lot of money instead of looking after the society.Many people are in need of assistant from government so let 4get about futile debate and focus in useful things.Pretoria must remain Pretoria.Finish

  • Etienne - 2010-02-12 12:54

    I think that an agreement whereby "Pretoria should remain Pretoria, while the greater metropolitan area should be named Tshwane" will be a suitable compromise

  • haha - 2010-02-12 13:01

    haha wtf is wrong with you all, it's a name, i can put my head on a block that 97% of you whites complaining doesn't even know why is it called Pretoria and how come...hahaha grow up

  • tshwane_all_de_way - 2010-02-12 13:36

    if changing names wastes money, why fight it court? are legal fees not money? wasted?

  • ZION PAY - 2010-02-12 13:37

    In my opinion the name change is a ploy to gain political inches. The name Pretoria has huge historical significance and is closely aligned with white South African sentiments. I believe it will be seen as a victory against the whites of this country.

  • Nadsza - 2010-02-12 14:02

    For me this really isn't about the name. I'm not that attached to names, but I DO dislike not being able to pronounce some of them.
    That aside, what really irritates me is the fact that this will cost millions! Is this really where we should be spending our hard-earned tax money? Or will the munic pay for this...the one that was recently bankrupt?

  • Mike - 2010-02-12 14:18

    i agree totaly with you gloria...why not use all that money and resource that goes into name change and help improve roads and build more houses for the poor.Maybe someone can explain why the name change is more urgent than refurbished roads?

  • Maluleke - 2010-02-12 14:51

    This is pure politics! This doesn't need anyone with no interests in politics. Stay away from making senseless comments. This country has no real name just to start with. South Africa merely refers to just a geographical location in the African continent. Fix what is to be fixed and let not names given by the apartheid government dominate. We scrubbing off scars of apartheid which looked down upon the then-African-leaders. I say Change is Embraced! Just don't fool yourself by making it seem there only Sotho's heroes in SA. Be reasonable and of sound judgment. Mayibuye IAfrica, that's what Mandela meant when he came out of prison. Bringing it back has got to include name changing process, so we would not have "Pretoria" which is not an African name. SA is Africa, mayibuyee, with the spirit of Ubuntu. - Maluleke, Giyani

  • Mario - 2010-02-12 14:51

    I dont care about the name changes. The more the country becomes unrecognisable to me the easier it becomes for me to betray the country I dont realy know. Go for ANC the money will effentialy dry up.

  • mabheka - 2010-02-12 14:52

    I agree with everyone that sees the wastefulness in this stupid namechanging symbolism. We need jobs, we need the money for that and only that

  • concerned - 2010-02-12 15:05

    No surprise to see all the racial comments and digging into the previous writer with a comment to attack. Sixteen years later and still on about the same racial anger.
    Thank goodness for a few people who see the real problem of the poor and suffering and the money which could be wisely spend on them instead of name changes.
    So forget your anger and stand togehter to let the government know just how wasteful all these changes are instead of attacking one another.

  • @Rushdi - 2010-02-12 15:09

    Why would Mandela National Park be more appropriate than Kruger National? Did Madiba start that park too?

  • Win@Rushdi - 2010-02-12 15:11

    Are you the worlds only living brain donor? Its about first getting the poor on their feet and crime under control, implementing education schemes. And then change the names once the people have been uplifted. Or would you rather go to the squatter camp and tell a mother you couldn't care if their childs starves that night or goes to bed without a bed, you would rather have the name of a city changed. You're a chop! Go back to doing what you do best and that's chirping from the sidelines and doing nothing.