News24

SAHRC plans 'shoot the boer' dialogue

2011-09-15 21:15

JOHANNESBURG Sept 15

The SA Human Rights Commission (SAHRC) is to host a "dialogue" on hate speech and freedom of expression after Monday's ruling on the "shoot the boer" song.

"The issues involved in this matter are so complex that they warrant a discussion that extends beyond the courts," the commission said on Thursday.

The Equality Court has ruled that ANC Youth League (ANCYL) leader Julius Malema's singing of the "shoot the boer" song constitutes hate speech.

The SAHRC said it would use a complaint lodged with the commission by the Afrikanerbond on the now prohibited lyrics to explore beyond the legal issues of the judgment.

AfriForum Youth had laid a complaint of hate speech against ANCYL president Julius Malema after he sang the lyrics several times in public.

ANCYL plans to appeal the ruling.

The SAHRC said it had held off dealing with the Afrikanerbond complaint until the Equality Court case was finalised.

"Having now had an opportunity to consider the judgment and to reflect on the complaint brought by the Afrikanberbond against Mr Malema, the commission recognises that the questions pertaining to freedom of expression and hate speech are both complex and emotive."

SAHRC spokesman Vincent Moaga said it was important for the commission to provide a perspective on the issue of freedom of expression and hate speech.

The right to freedom of expression was enshrined in Section 16 of the Constitution, and the same right also allowed for freedom of speech, he said.

It did not extend to propaganda for war, incitement to violence or advocacy of hatred, so a balance was needed.

Section 10 of the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act provided further limitations and prohibited speech which had the intention to be harmful, hurtful, and to incite violence.

Moaga said dates and other arrangements for the dialogue still had to be finalised.

Comments
  • Naaivarkie - 2011-09-15 21:22

    It isn't really that complex is it, SAHRC? Here, the words of their 'song', everyone knows it's a chant of death! Ayasab' amagwala (the cowards are scared) dubula dubula (shoot shoot) ayeah dubula dubula (shoot shoot ) ayasab 'a magwala (the cowards are scared) dubula dubula (shoot shoot) awu yoh dubula dubula (shoot shoot) aw dubul'ibhunu (shoot the Boer) dubula dubula (shoot shoot) aw dubul'ibhunu (shoot the Boer) dubula dubula (shoot shoot) aw dubul'ibhunu (shoot the Boer) dubula dubula (shoot shoot) aw dubul'ibhunu (shoot the Boer) dubula dubula (shoot shoot) awe mama ndiyekele (mother leave me be) awe mama iyeah (oh mother) awe mama ndiyekele (mother leave me be) awe mama iyo (oh mother) aw dubul'ibhunu (shoot the Boer) dubula dubula (shoot shoot) aw dubul'ibhunu (shoot the Boer) dubula dubula (shoot shoot) aw dubul'ibhunu (shoot the Boer) dubula dubula (shoot shoot) aw dubul'ibhunu (shoot the Boer) dubula dubula (shoot shoot) Ayasab' amagwala (the cowards are scared) dubula dubula (shoot shoot ) ayeah And on and on it goes! If that ain't hate speech than nothing is!

      Henk - 2011-09-15 21:37

      The old flag was taken away to accommodate black people. Why is this such a big issue? It is time for the ANC to stop being terrorists and start governing the country. Stop the side show, it does not draw away our attention from bad governance.

      Naaivarkie - 2011-09-15 21:50

      The inability of the ANC to stop this chant is a sign, it's blatantly a declaration of WAR! What do they think we should do, just sit back and die?!

      IcemanGP - 2011-09-15 22:00

      Fkk, if that ain't a mind numbing chant, then I don't know.

      Harvey - 2011-09-15 22:11

      Thanks for the post. Interesting oedipal overtones.

      Agwambo - 2011-09-15 22:19

      You are talking rubbish; it is not shooting a boer like you BUT those who perpetuated apartheid. You are safe broer..

      Naaivarkie - 2011-09-15 22:20

      Lol, according to Tutu, Malema, Zuma, De Vos, Derek Hanekom, all White South Africans are guilty of Apartheid and should pay. Therefore thank you for that rebuttal, it seems NO White South African is safe!

      Shaman Pete - 2011-09-16 00:57

      That's just it, Agwambo. Nothing the ANC government has done has reassured me that I am as safe as you claim. Their election campaign was run on portraying whites as criminals. We're constantly told to leave the country and those that do are reviled as traitors. Malema arrives in court with bodyguards sporting automatic rifles. This platitude of "it's a symbol" is about as reassuring as a voice coming from a dark alley saying, "hey whiteboy, come here!" In the end it is for the person receiving a threat to interpret its severity, and not for those issuing the threat to dictate how it should be received. Also if I said something inadvertently that made someone else feel threatened; how immature and patronizing would I be to insist that they were overreacting.

      Warslat - 2011-09-16 01:04

      Pointless even trying to discuss it, they'll never understand, I know I'm battling. According to them "shoot the boer" actually means "don't shoot the boer"...OK now I got it...I love SA and its people.

      Martin - 2011-09-16 01:49

      Stuff the legalities! Threatening to shoot a minority group is hate, pure and simple. I used logic and morals to come up with this decision. While you at it, please stop that crazy man 'calling for his machine gun'.

      gaharaa - 2011-09-16 05:38

      HAHA Naaivarkie...you said butt. To Agwambo.

      Met - 2011-09-16 06:13

      Dubula is KILL not shoot. So, without being technical, its even worse than indicated.If we can debate the continued use of an obviously racist song, then surely the continued use of the K-word should be added to the agenda." The cowards are scared" ? Are they referring to the women and children these"heroes" always sought out to kill- self praise if ever, and built on self deception.

      DRYGOII - 2011-09-16 06:39

      MAY BE THIS WHAT SEPARATES CIVILIZED SOCIATY FROM WILD? South africans must recognise it! But most of them are stucked in 18 century mentally wise!It is impossible to explane to the crowd in Alexandra(for example)while they are living like.....Exactly what Malema is uses! That is why-first you people must create for them normal enviroment (of course if it is possible ) otherwise we must leave this country-everything else is useless (espesially complaning)

      Proefleser - 2011-09-16 07:55

      Just for interest sake, does anybody know the words (translated) of the Haka? Agwambo, those who perpetuated Apartheid are mostly dead, why now perpetuate this period of black people's greatest shame? The time to fight and incite is past, and you are being brave against a void. Look to the future!

      WhirlPool - 2011-09-16 07:56

      That song is not complex at all... It is very basic words, even a two year old can sing a song like that.

      Spyker May - 2011-09-16 09:32

      Very uncomplicated: "Boer" is a universal euphemism for "white people". The ANC's unmitigated campaign of HATE for white South Africans is now surfacing. It is the vanguard for the killing of- and stealing from white SAcans that the ANC is delivering to its constitution as a basic 'RIGHT'. Re.., “...did not extend to propaganda for war, incitement to violence or advocacy of hatred...” On the ANCYL’s 67th birthday, Malema openly- end overtly declared war against the white people of SA. He incited violence, by stating there will be “casualties”, he then advocated hate by calling white people criminals. This was the most overt act of HATE SPEECH yet – WHAT IS BEING DONE ABOUT THIS..? If the mechanisms that are suppose to protect civil society in SA against a psychopath like Malema – then there is a fundamental mandate to take physical action.

      Krush - 2011-09-16 09:43

      @agwambo, then the words should be "shoot the oppressor." In the same light I can say the K-word mean's "heathen" and does not refer to every black person. It's a two way street, make your choice. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

      Oldbuck - 2011-09-16 15:42

      just like all their other songs ,all single sylabill chants,not enough brains to compose a true lyric - here is one for them kom van die hell - gaan na die hell repeat 50 times then you have one of their songs

  • crackerr - 2011-09-15 21:39

    @ Naaivarkie So obvious. Add the way in which the chant was performed and the associated utterances made with a military style (Che Guavara) beret perched on the head. We whites are settlers and colonialists in our country of birth and citizenship. According to the beret. What exactly can there be to talk about. We are the targets. Only fools can't or won't see the implications. Or has the ANC now finally has decided with its support of the beret that we whites - particularly the Afrikaner whites - are the enemy ready for the final onslaught? Sorry ANC, but if the boot was on the other foot, what would you have thought? No government that has the interests of all its citizens at heart will allow ANYBODY to sing / chant / boogie or wiggle backsides for the destruction / extermination of others within its borders. The government that does that has effectively given up its right to governance over the intended target people implicated in aforesaid song / chant / boogie or gatswaai.

  • africrealist - 2011-09-15 21:41

    stuff the human rights we should rather say what are our HUMAN DUTIES towards our fellow country men and our country then it would be a much better place to live in.

      Shaman Pete - 2011-09-15 22:25

      Africarealist, your post should be on a billboard in 10ft high letters.

      FJ2 - 2011-09-15 23:18

      At last some sanity amid all the emotional nonsense! Thanks.

      TamaraSays - 2011-09-15 23:52

      And human RESPONSIBILITIES. The two go hand in hand.

  • I Like Everything - 2011-09-15 21:44

    I like this. Wait for the courts to come to a conclusion on the issue and then proceed discuss the way forward.

      Naaivarkie - 2011-09-15 21:47

      The courts already did???

      gaharaa - 2011-09-16 05:41

      Like duh man. Like...uh...yeah. Like...aren't they supposed to peal or somethin like coz they don't like the courts like apartheidedness conc...conc...conclusion thingy? Like jeez man. Lay off the "like" juice already.

      wellzy - 2011-09-16 06:47

      I don't like everything, but I like your posts.

      Warslat - 2011-09-16 21:35

      I like your name

  • Blip - 2011-09-15 21:57

    Why not also host a "dialogue" on the k-word?

      gaharaa - 2011-09-16 05:42

      Or sing a song saying it a couple hundred times and see if they piss anyone off.

  • HerrCranium - 2011-09-15 21:59

    ANCYL can SMB HerrC JHB

  • Verdade - 2011-09-15 22:11

    What is wrong is wrong....PERIOD! And... the song is wrong!

  • King Cheetah - 2011-09-15 22:16

    Dear SAHRC I have been posting this since before the Judge gave his verdict.... either the SAHRC and ANC and JuJU are dumb or dont even read their own legislation.. To those that did not know. The ANC themselves enacted the following which addresses the JuJu Malema and Darren's latest fiasco!! why it was not all addressed under this Legislation and be done with it ...sheesh!! In 2000, the Parliament of South African enacted Act No. 4 of 2000: Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act.[12] that contains the following clause relating to hate speech: 10. (1) Subject to the proviso in section 12. no person may publish, propagate, advocate or communicate words based on one or more of the prohibited grounds, against any person, that could reasonably be construed to demonstrate a clear intention to - (a) be hurtful; (b) be harmful or to incite harm; (c) promote or propagate hatred. So to the ANC and JuJU and his puppets....HAHAHA!!! YOUR OWN REGIME OUTLAWED THE WORDS OF THE SONG and the K Word and similar utterences in the YEAR 2000. .....LIVE WITH THE FACT...IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RECENT JUDGE'S RULING OR HOW HE ADDED TO IT. HE MERELY REINFORCED WHAT THE ANC THEMSELVES PAST THROUGH PARLIAMENT. NOW ITS WRONG???? MUST BE CONTESTED?? THEY GOING TO CONTEST THIER OWN LAWS NOW??? SO IT GOES TO PROVE THE RIGHT HAND DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THE LEFT HAND IS DOING..SEEMINGLY NEVER WILL..... WAITTTTTTTTTTTT THIS IS AFRICAAAAAAAA!!!! LOL.

      King Cheetah - 2011-09-15 22:22

      BTW Moaga.... Show some education. If you going to quote legislation quote it correctly as I have.DONT CHANGE THE WORDING TO SUIT YOURSELF,GRR!!

      gaharaa - 2011-09-16 06:00

      And then still get it kinda wrong. Sheesh.

      gaharaa - 2011-09-16 06:07

      The last time I went to war with someone I didn't do it coz I loved them. In fact...I did it coz I hated them and they had said nasty, hurtful things to me. And then sang those things and that really made me hate them. So I warred. What they did wasn't a direct incitement for war or violence but they made me hate them so much that that was the result. And then they stopped singing, apologised, said they won't do it again and everything was fine. But they said their jaw hurt a bit. So I said "Yeah well, thats what happens when you hit yourself in the face with a big shiny watch."

      Oldbuck - 2011-09-16 16:34

      i agree

  • Jillian - 2011-09-15 22:42

    According to Alana Bailey, Deputy CEO of AfriForum, the fact that Adv Mushwana in his capacity as PP had evidently protected the ANC, raises serious questions about the impartiality of the HRC. “In the past AfriForum had lodged several complaints with the HRC which have not received any attention at all. This already creates doubts about the objectivity and the functionality of the HRC,” Bailey said. “The finding of the Supreme Court of Appeals once again illustrates how institutions which are constitutionally obliged to protect and serve the total South African community, thereby promoting democracy, are immobilised by the cadre redeployment of the ANC.” (These comments were made after the Public Protector – then Adv Mushwana – into the Oilgate scandal, had been so half-hearted and superficial, that in effect no investigation had been made at all. Five of the judges of the Supreme Court of Appeals agreed that the PP’s report on the so-called investigation should be overturned as no investigation had taken place.) Nothing has changed since and it never will, especially with Judge Moegoe at the helm of the Concourt. From its inception, under the racist Barney Pityana (last known to be dysfunctionalising Unisa), the HRC has been a sinecure for the croniocracy and its friends and the statutory arm of the ANC. Human Rights abuses in ANC-friendly countries have been ignored, from Cuba to China. How will they judge what is wrong or right, when they can't even get this right?

  • King Cheetah - 2011-09-15 22:42

    Dear SAHRC... the Dear President is just as guilty for instilling HATRED and Violence by singing....Awuleth' Umshini Wami....which he still sings!! THIS IS WHAT A PRESIDENT DOES?? Incite violence and more by singing Umkhonto we Sizwe WAR songs?? NO WONDER JuJu is doing what he is doing,grrrrrr!!! In October 2006, the song was made available as a ringtone by Zuma's defence fund through its website.[2] The song has gained controversy in 21st-century South Africa because of its association with the violence of the apartheid period, and is seen as misplaced by some people because of the rise in violent crime throughout the country since the beginning of the current multiracial order in 1994. In 2008, Zuma expressed displeasure at the singing of it by violent mobs etc. SO THANK YOU MR PRESIDENT YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR BOTH SONGS!! Umshini wami mshini wami (lead) khawuleth'umshini wami (Follower) Umshini wami mshini wami, khawuleth'umshini wami Umshini wami mshini wami, khawuleth'umshini wami khawuleth'umshini wami Wen'uyang'ibambezela(Lead) umshini wami, khawuleth'umshini wami(Follower) My machine my machine Please bring my machine My machine my machine Please bring my machine My machine my machine Please bring my machine gun Please bring my machine gun You're pulling me back My machine , Please bring my machine

      gaharaa - 2011-09-16 05:47

      Its not even a nice song. You can hardly call repeating one word over and over rhyming. And the rhythm? Ugh...Simon Cowell will have a field day.

      Jakkals - 2011-09-16 08:41

      Moeilik vir iemand met st 4 om baie woorde te kan onthou

      Krush - 2011-09-16 09:52

      That's because it's not a song - it's a chant. This is popular amongst black tribes even back in the day to create a semi-trance state particularly before they would go out to fight.

      Oldbuck - 2011-09-16 15:52

      someone with true talent must have composed this song,he must have come from limpopo

      sniperman - 2011-09-19 12:31

      @KRUSH. I now understand the whole issue. about the machine gun. What happened to "One settler, one Bullet"? It is, now, quite obvious that machine guns are required as you cannot shoot straight when in a trance.

  • wiledog - 2011-09-15 23:33

    "It did not extend to propaganda for war, incitement to violence or advocacy of hatred".... all which Malema has done... his calling for an "economic war" in SA is at the very least sedition, or at the worst treason... we're in BIG trouble indeed...

  • Just.me - 2011-09-16 01:36

    My f*#k are thet SERIOUS? must everything be in black and white now ( no pun intended) if in a position of power and given the opportunity to influence masses and incite violence then you must not be allowed to say something that will cause the murder of other PEOPLE!shouldnt that be obvious? these are PEOPLE you are singing about shooting.Gods own people. what the hell is going on here?????

  • Fredster69 - 2011-09-16 08:43

    Can anyone tell me how this chant will be building a nation?

      Naaivarkie - 2011-09-16 11:40

      Simple, all the dead Boers will lay the foundations for years to come!

  • AndV - 2011-09-16 08:44

    Why now only?? They knew about the issue for years. Is it because their cadres lost the legal batle? The court decided finish en klaar! "Johny come lately's"

  • Happytoliveabroad - 2011-09-16 09:08

    I watch with pain in my heart at what is happening to South Africa, teying to make sense of it all is just impossible. The hope of one day being able to show my kids where they lived and who they are is fast fading. Have a look at these sites. It is rather scary to think this is happening. http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/8stagesofgenocide.html http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/countriesatrisk2011.html click on 2011. Compare it to last year, I pray to God that it is stopped by the ANC.

  • letsee - 2011-09-16 09:13

    Freedom of expresson ends when it invades other's freedom. To sing "kill" whoever, is an invasion of privacy.

  • Munks80 - 2011-09-16 09:46

    One would think that in this day and age, especially if we think how far we have come since "94", there would have been some resolve pertaining too the racial issue. All we (black, white, indian, blue, green ect) do is re-hash old wounds. How the hell do we expect to get any where. It will always be like this. and it will always be a racial issue. what good for some is good for all.

  • lakhan7 - 2011-09-16 10:11

    wait: Shoot the boer, was a motivation song during the struggle. One has to note the timeframe. During that time( struggle), it was okay. ... But now , we not "struggling". Our Struggle is with politicians, eskom, mc donalds , wal-mart etc... Hence, our new struggle song should be "dubula dubula, aw dubul' inkohlakalo /ngcola " ( shoot shoot, SHOOT the Corruption /corrupt ) Viva, Viva... Power to da Peppol ,,, Ammmmmanndlaaaaaa

  • Badballie - 2011-09-16 10:20

    In other words the SAHRC is fairly much saying that it must follow the dictates of its mother organisation the ANC and will report back once it finds a way around the ruling.

  • AllHoliday - 2011-09-16 10:49

    O well, the court have decided. But Julius is shouting so hard, let's look at it again! If this is allowed, then freedom of speace must include any hate speach of any kind. So, one can say or sing whatever you want and the old SA flag should be unbaned from sport events, since it is part of our history!

  • KERRYKING - 2011-09-16 14:10

    That dumb ass idiot thinks he doesn't need the Boer or the white man to run this country, has he seen what his lil friend has done to zim...You need the white man to run a country....

      Oldbuck - 2011-09-16 15:56

      these idiots were a bunch of tribes fifty years ago,now they go on about this song being their history.150 years ago they had no recorded history except the bull that was spoken around a camp fire after they had smoked weed and every now and then a painting in a cave.the bunch of idiots

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