News24

Show me the miners' toilets - judge

2012-10-02 14:46

Rustenburg - The commission probing the shooting at Lonmin's platinum mine toured blocks of hostels inhabited by mineworkers on Tuesday.

Before the visit, Lonmin's Natasha Viljoen told commission chairperson Judge Ian Farlam and his team that the structures were "old-style".

"These buildings here are the old-style hostels. The occupants of the buildings are in, but we will ask them nicely to peep in," she told the commission.

"We are currently converting and we will take you to see the final products [new-style hostels]. These are single sex units," she said.

The judge entered a room with seven beds. Several workers milled about. Cooking utensils were stashed in one corner.

A low wall in the middle of the room divided four of the beds from the other three.

After making observations in the room, the judge asked to see the toilet.

"Now show me the ablution facilities. I want to see the toilets."

Lonmin officials led Farlam to another block of hostels to see the toilets.

The judge's entourage entered and inspected the facility, which several men were busy cleaning.

Farlam took a dirty, unused and damaged toilet roll dispenser and remarked, laughing: "This thing looks like it dispensed toilet paper ages ago."

Next to the hostels the commission visited a beer hall.

Informal settlements


Earlier, the commission inspected the place where two Lonmin security guards were burned to death.

Viljoen led Farlam and his team to a charred patch of ground under a tree, near the Andrew Saffy hospital.

"Two of our employees and two vehicles were burnt here, at this tree. These incidents happened on August 12," she said.

The commission is conducting a judicial inquiry into the shooting at the North West mine that left 34 people dead and 78 wounded on August 16 when police fired on striking workers.

The preceding week saw 10 people, including two security guards and two policemen, killed during protests at the Lonmin mine.

The commission, accompanied by several lawyers, observers and media, intended visiting other hostels and two informal settlements in the area.

Some of the lawyers representing the workers and their families asked that the commission also look at where Lonmin management lived in Mooinooi, about 10km from Marikana.

Comments
  • makavelithedonkilluminati.shakur - 2012-10-02 15:01

    He is white and he is doing the job right.I'm black but I hate what ANC is doing to us.I'm sure Zuma would never enter toilets of mineworkers.Mxm

      jackie.stone.501 - 2012-10-02 15:11

      you are just an attention seeker, and you got black in you brothers. If by entering a filthy toilet make him your hero, then good for you

      makavelithedonkilluminati.shakur - 2012-10-02 15:23

      @jackie. and u just blind and stupid if u honestly think Zuma gives a f*#k about S.A.

      jackie.stone.501 - 2012-10-02 15:33

      First don't act like you are a black person. Secondly I never mentioned Zuma, I am just saying that if you heroes are measured by how dirty toilets they visit, then you must be adoring pig

      sandy.langenstrass - 2012-10-02 15:37

      @ Jackie....why do you become insulting when a brother of yours(makavelithedonkilluminati)has a different opinion to you? He has every right to think that the 'white judge' is doing a good job....we live in a democracy....so learn, and catch a wakeup....he does not have to think like you.....thank God for that....respect others.

      jackie.stone.501 - 2012-10-02 15:46

      @sandra He is your brother, he is undercover with a fake facebook profile. And if read my statement again you will see no insults there

      makavelithedonkilluminati.shakur - 2012-10-02 15:47

      @jackie. My alias is Tupac Shukur aka Makaveli The Don,and for ur info,he was black and I'm also black.But we gotta face reality that ANC has failed us big time especially Zuma.Open ur eyes u naive fool.

      Randomhero6661 - 2012-10-02 16:21

      ah jackie, shouldnt you be on the golf course? hurry boet the sun is setting.

      makavelithedonkilluminati.shakur - 2012-10-02 16:24

      @jackie.Does it even matter if I'm black or white? this goes to prove that u r a true racist.

      SkyeBenga - 2012-10-02 16:25

      Jackie, I have a pet pig and she is very clean about her toilet. Please don't make unsubstantiated comments. And, by the way, she's piebald.

      p.borchard - 2012-10-02 16:54

      At our building, the 5 guys who occupy the flat are supposed to clean the flat + their bathroom themselves. Every couple of weeks we have to complain to the landlord that it smells like someone has died in there, because they do not clean anything. He stopped replacing toilet seats and toilet roll dispensers, towel rails etc, because it just gets trashed again. To what conclusion would the judge come - that someone else needed to replace and clean the miners' bathrooms for them?

  • sanchez.sancho.7 - 2012-10-02 15:01

    I see a generation rising up to take their place, with selfless praise. I see a near revival.

  • punungwe - 2012-10-02 15:03

    The contrast between Mooinooi and Marikana hostels should demonstrate what is wrong with the mining industry. The exploitative culture bred by racist oppression is still very much alive and kicking. The culture of selfish consideration of only oneself and ones own race, which was the hallmark of white racism and apartheid, has bred a management style which considers it right for a Marikana manager to splurge on a Ferrari while the workers struggle to feed their families. It has bred a culture which considers it right for Malema and other politicians to splurge on Gicci and Breitling while the people they claim to represent go to bed hungry.

      peter.jefferies.90 - 2012-10-02 15:15

      @punungwe this is not a white thing!! Why on earth is it always a white thing?? All countries run the same a Wealth Class, a middle class and poor! If South Africans weren't so blinded by racial issue they would see that even in 1st world countries people who have no education and are poor live in worse conditions then middle class people andthe middle class live in worse conditions then the rich. This is even so in the black culture where a king rules the land, does he also live like the rest of his people or does he have a big house and live n the lap of luxury?? Everyone must stop hiding behind the race card because all it is doing is making people lazy and wait for handouts!!

      shirley.steenkamp - 2012-10-02 15:22

      That same worker sits and drinks EVERY weekend till he is fall down drunk! Why not use that money to feed his "starving"family????P.S. Do the mineworkers have degrees in business and could they handle all the tasks that a manager does????? Just curious.

      masamune.azeem - 2012-10-02 15:31

      @Peterjeff. miners are not lazy, lol honestly majority of people saying miners are lazy have no idea of what these people go through. These people are not asking for handouts,they work damn hard.

      yvonne.joseph.1612 - 2012-10-02 15:34

      Whilst I was about to give a knee jerk reaction to your comments about racist oppression etc,I will tone down my rhetoric. Why were you conquered in the first place. No technology no education,and nothing to offer,just as Britain against the Romans. However,the oppressed overthrew their oppressors,and as the case of Britain became better, in Africa,it seems that,once you overthrow your oppressors,it gives you licence to loot,without impunity. Independence was 18 years ago,why has the present government not improved upon,old conditions.

      acm.munro - 2012-10-02 15:34

      I am not sure now whether I;m dreaming or not ... but I seem to remember watching and listening on TV to a black person representing Lonmin management ... so where will he be staying?

      yvonne.joseph.1612 - 2012-10-02 15:35

      By the way what flag is that you are hiding behind,Mocambique? What a great track record they have in human relations?

      DarrenCooper68 - 2012-10-02 15:41

      Valid point but it doesnt take a culture of expoloitation or self enrichment to know that if everyone cleas up after themselves, the toilets and living quarters can be kept clean. This applies to even the tiniest of living spaces. Throughout the world there will always be the have's and the have nots just as there are the intelligent, the pretty, the talented and the reverse of all these. We have a history that has seriously skewed the system but i believe we also have a false expectation. Refer India, China, Brazil and most countries. A country like South Africa can realisticaly employ only x number people that can contribute wealth via taxation to support how many?. Simple mathematics dictate that we have too many people drawing and not enough contributing money to be able to turn the tables on the legacy of apartheid.

      danny.zulu.79 - 2012-10-02 15:56

      @ pete peterr whoever your name is, don't you dare compare our kings to yourselves you only came to Africa to steal and calling yourself king!. Whites don't hv a right to claim any king ship in the African land.

      Clayton Richard Delport - 2012-10-02 16:06

      So in other words people who earn there money must no buy themselves things, dont get me wrong I'm definitely not rich, I work hard to provide and just make it every month, but to say something like that? Makes no sense at all, then maybe we should also stop working for money?

      richard.bosmano - 2012-10-02 16:12

      Yeah Peter, as danny.zulu says,don't compare civilised folks to african kings,they are not in the same boat.

      devon.riley.52 - 2012-10-02 16:18

      @punungwe if you foreigners don't like the conditions in SA you are free to go back to Zimbabwe. Go work for one of Mugabe's indigenous mines the conditions are much better over there. Give an unemployed South African a chance to get a job.

      bobby.boon.18 - 2012-10-02 17:56

      Punungwe your remarks are all racist and if you had half a brain what you are illustrating here is not racisim but capitalism big difference

      punungwe - 2012-10-02 18:54

      @devon.riley.52 do not forget that for some of us it South Africa which advertised that it needed skilled people, and gave us quota work permits. Our skills are contributing towards making South Africa a better country. Not everyone of us came under the fence.

      punungwe - 2012-10-02 18:58

      @bobby.boon.18 you think that my remarks are racist because you saw only the part that mentioned whites and ignored the part that mentioned black politicians. Stating the fact that apartheid, a system formulated because of white racism, caused imbalanced development of society is not racism. It is a simple statement of a very truthful fact. That some choose to remain in a state of denial over that fact does not change it.

      DarrenCooper68 - 2012-10-03 10:20

      @ puningwe. The system was created primarily for the advancement of a certain population group, as is happening now. But supporting that that fact is somehow not racist. As you seem to want, lets call a spade a spade, If you stand back and take a long hard look, consider who did a better job of it. The current bunch seem only interested in advancing the lot of a few at an even larger cost to the majority than the last bunch did.

  • lizelle.leroux.31 - 2012-10-02 15:04

    The judge wants to see the toilets and where they sleep and what it looks like nobody cleans my place i have to do that on my own. If something is broken i have to make sure that it gets fixed - what amazes me is that its never the miners fault. Keeping it clean is nobody's fault but the miners!!!!!! I always say being poor doesn't mean you have to be dirty!!!!

      shirley.steenkamp - 2012-10-02 15:19

      My thoughts exactly!!!!! If they cant buy toilet paper,whos fault is that. I know of many old buildings,that when you enter them,you could eat off the floor-they are spotless! They wont provide their own toilet paper,yet spend most of their money at the shebeens every weekend. If you can afford to drink in abundance every weekend-dont cry poverty!!!!!

      BigChiefPlumbPudding - 2012-10-02 16:21

      About 15 years ago I was poor, and had to rent a very small two room shack. But, it was spotlessly clean, everything in it's place, it didn't stink, if something broke I fixed it, I borrowed a lawn mower every week and mowed the lawn, turned the soil where the grass wasn't growing very well, weeded etc etc. Because you're poor does not mean you have to live like a filthy pig and let things get run down to the point of no repair. Anyone spot the difference? Look after your own space and take some pride in it instead of expecting other people to do everything for you.

  • kevin.ian.583 - 2012-10-02 15:07

    x

  • kevin.ian.583 - 2012-10-02 15:08

    I wonder if it is going to be the companies fault for not providing toilet paper. These workers earn R10 000 plus per month . Way more than average.

      kevin.ian.583 - 2012-10-02 15:53

      Hi Simply South African : yes my company provides toilet paper but not in my home.

      Randomhero6661 - 2012-10-02 16:23

      you SIMPLY didn't see that response coming did you SIMPLYSOUTHAFRICAN...

      tpsteyn - 2012-10-02 22:28

      Well at least they have toilet roll dispencers! I work in a public hospital where I have to carry my own toiletpaper around and few of the toilets actually have seats :/

  • fredster.mania.5 - 2012-10-02 15:10

    Close the beer hall and improve the toilets

  • neutedop.opinie - 2012-10-02 15:15

    Point is, what does the income/living quarters have to do with killing 2 policemen, 2 security, and other miners? Please explain that. The killing started when they took breadwinners of other families away. Why is that not the main aim of this enquiry? That is where it started. In which other country will you be able to murder 2 cops, and it is not the main aim of the investigation! People feeling sorry for the dead miners, must realise that they stormed a police unit....after killing 10 people! Innocent people! So how do you distinguish between a panga swinging miner that is doing it for intimidation purpose, and who will actually kill ANOTHER police officer.....

  • paul.coetzee1 - 2012-10-02 15:18

    Did the Judge need to make a poop? He is lucky he was not at the Aurara mine hostels.

      hester.matmer.3 - 2012-10-02 16:17

      Brilliant comment Paul. LoL

  • crystal.core.5 - 2012-10-02 15:28

    What exactly is SAPA trying to say in this article? Is it the toilet's fault? As dirty and disgusting as it may be, like maintaining personal hygene, not maintaining and cleaning your toilet is not really a crime ...running around killing people with pangas however ...is also not really a crime in SA, as long as you are doing it becuase you want more money from your greedy employers. The same greedy employers who pay tax so our corrupt, incompetent and racist government can keep themselves in private jets, mantions, BMWs, range rovers while blaming the increasing problems in the country on the decreasing amount of white people in it... TOILETS!

      bobby.boon.18 - 2012-10-02 18:02

      Well said crystal sounds like these guys want a communistic country rather than a capitalistic democracy

  • sarecen.smith - 2012-10-02 15:31

    @ bob, and totsi, so in other words you would rather live in a grass hut, walk around in your loin skin, and drink millet beer?

      tsotsibaby - 2012-10-02 15:51

      Yes, I speak on behalf of all blacks. I came to Africa just like you though... #Power to the people

      beki.khumalo - 2012-10-02 16:01

      How much do you know about your ancestors Smith? Were they born wearing Gucci? At some point we were ALL primitive, hunters, food gathers etc. And we advanced and evolved, all of us, black and white. Why you feel so special is a mystery to me...

      devon.riley.52 - 2012-10-02 16:24

      tsotsi there's nothing stopping you then. Sell your computer and go to the bush bru. Plenty of places you can go in the Eastern Cape.

      DarrenCooper68 - 2012-10-02 16:37

      @beki, Wow, a can of worms hidden inside pandoras box. Maybe some faster than others is perhaps the issue. This doesn't make anyone special, it just is. And clearly one wants what the other has so dont knock it, western way of life, Gucci and all, that is.

      khethu.ndlovu.3 - 2012-10-02 17:53

      Bingo what do you aim to prove by this? You still are convinced you white men did africans a favour by coming here?

      DarrenCooper68 - 2012-10-03 12:45

      @ KHETU. What shocks me is that you don't think so. Bear in mind there were not many wheels in town never mind complex machinery, simple mathematics, astrology or any structures, roads, aqueducts etc similar to what the Europeans had been building for many many years. The current infrastructural/technological/financial etc advantage South Africa has over the rest of Africa is I believe the result of the efforts of both black and white to varying degrees. Next I suppose comes the debate on if it's the guy that lays the bricks that adds more value to this development than the guy that decides where the bricks must be laid. Oh yes, there no bricks either!

  • beki.khumalo - 2012-10-02 15:52

    So Jonisayi Maromo writes an article informing the nation of what a thourough job the dedicated judge is doing, even going as far as inspecting the living conditions of the poor miners. And what do racists do? They cease the moment to spew their racial hatred! Have you people have no sense of shame at all? Even when it's not necessary, you find a reason to be racist still! To hate another because of their skin colour shows how shallow one is! Dumb! No intelligence at all! The fact that you don't realise that socio-economic issues such as these people's living conditions affect their behaviour further shows how shallow some of you racists are! You are so drunk with racism you can't even reason properly! Disgusting!!!

      Johann Enslin - 2012-10-02 21:21

      Beki...read you comment...it's racist.

      barbara.jansen.90 - 2012-10-02 23:26

      So funny!! Who started with the racist comments again?

  • ryno.grobbelaar - 2012-10-02 15:52

    Please also try and have a look at what it looked like before the miners moved in

      khethu.ndlovu.3 - 2012-10-02 17:49

      What do u imply? Hev you ever heard of the word renovation? Even yourself, you do some renovation on your toilet some times

  • Msizi.nyalungu - 2012-10-02 16:05

    there is no story here

  • sifiso.msimango - 2012-10-02 16:24

    good job mr leading, this goes to show that these heartless foreign thugs are here for only one reason, take our money and run-away. pls make them face the full music

      DarrenCooper68 - 2012-10-03 12:56

      I need to remember that people like Sifiso cannot be labled a racist and i'm sure some of his best friends are foreigners.

  • jpstrauss - 2012-10-02 16:31

    Oh, not this sh*t again!

  • Diran - 2012-10-02 16:31

    The miners have been and will always be treated like animals in this country. The rich mine owners don't care about the black miners. We all want more money , better lives! Why should the miners have less, while the super rich of the world get richer.

      Clayton Richard Delport - 2012-10-02 16:34

      If you feel like that go start a mine and become super rich

      Diran - 2012-10-02 16:37

      your comment makes no sense

      rhulani.baloyi.545 - 2012-10-02 16:40

      @ Clayton lol just my luck, how are you my friend, you forgot to take medicine again today? please forgive him he has a condition

      rhulani.baloyi.545 - 2012-10-02 16:41

      @ Clayton lol just my luck, how are you my friend, you forgot to take medicine again today? please forgive him he has a condition

      Clayton Richard Delport - 2012-10-02 17:03

      Err, stupid white mans technology, has spell check, I meant to say baloyi my meds

      Clayton Richard Delport - 2012-10-02 17:06

      And Diran it's not just the mines, we are working with a monetary value, meaning your worth is valued at how much money you have ding song welcome to earth

  • davidson.mu - 2012-10-02 16:34

    u people r nt learning anything go bk to history,if u think u cn fight a skin colour of a person, mk ma word u wl never win coz its lk u r questioning God why he created human beings with different colours. he is the Almighty no 1 else bt if u think u r? u gonna see the results on urself soon.

  • tsotsibaby - 2012-10-02 16:38

    ^^Economic Power Since We Already Brutally Beaten You For Political power... #Power to the people

  • Mutuwafhethu Emmanuel Ndou - 2012-10-02 16:42

    Im realy surprised and worried 2 read de comments made by some white people,especially Fourie,who still call black people 'useseless animals' in this so called democratic SA.The comments made by those holy whites after de lawyers and commissioners inspected de situation at Marikana ,tell me and other black South Africans dat dey ar still far from repenting of evil deeds dat THEY did 2 the still suffering black S.Africans.I wonder de type of people they are when they take joy in what has happened at dat mine.Their comments show how some of them who are pretending 2 be loving blacks,to be liers who only want our votes 2 make dem still perpetuate de joy dey have when blacks are killed.Come on fellow South Africans,repent of your sins and ask God of heavens 2 4give u.The selfishness dat we witness in South Africa 2day,where man takes joy at de suffering of others,where a man sees nothing wrong when robbing other people,where a man takes joy when people of other race different from his or hers are killed 4 selfish reasons(wealth of de mines),where a man takes joy when insulting other human race,where a man takes joy at enriching himself/herself and dose of his/her family or relatives,where a man takes joy when raping children,grannies and women,where a man takes joy when plundering the states funds meant 4 poor and dose Fourie enjoy shameleslly 2 call them 'useless animals' , where a man takes joy when making his own human race more poorer and poorer, is a sure sign dat Jesus may be nearer.Wake up fellow South Africans.All these happen bcos the leaders and some in our parliamnt,have rejected God to be the conscience of South African parliament in favour of money and wealth.Even those who are lucky 2 see these,have chosen 2 keep quiet as long as they are getting money,wealth,tenders,shares,and as long as their companies/firms/mines/unions/political organisations/churches are making or collecting money/wealth at the expense of the poverty of our people.South Africans watch closely at de outcome of the Commission set by president Zuma and see if de outcomes are going to be in favour of de poor workers or rich management and police or government.Lets see if there is still someone or law dat cares 4 de poor,if not,God Himself will fight 4 them/u. From Ndou M.E

  • demi.davidson.18 - 2012-10-02 16:44

    I once worked for a very big corporate company who did a major and expensive refurbishment of the factory workers toilets/showers facilities. Within less than 6 months everything had been trashed, stripped & broken. The toilet seats did not last more than a month or two, taps were broken off, toilet doors damaged, showers wrecked. They appreciated and respected NOTHING.

      khethu.ndlovu.3 - 2012-10-02 17:44

      And?

  • tapiwa.mubonderi - 2012-10-02 16:46

    The reason people are not happy about the toilet inspection is because they are of a poor standard. Toilets show how much value is attached to the people in an organisation, they will lead the judge to determine the actual conditions the miners had to put with. Real change is difficult and most people want to maintain the status quo than deal with new scenarios.

      DarrenCooper68 - 2012-10-03 13:01

      It also shows how much some people are able to clean up after themselves, that really is all it takes.

  • herbert.plessis - 2012-10-02 16:48

    Can we inspect where the weapons are stashed? Can we inspect where the security guards were murdered? Can we inspect what stolen property is to be found in the hostels?

      khethu.ndlovu.3 - 2012-10-02 17:41

      Do it if u must, no 1 is holding u from doing it, who are u defending here?

  • tshepo.mokomela - 2012-10-02 16:49

    If you've never been or lived in a hostel just do us a favour and shut up! If you don't know the true meaning of poverty, again shut up! People died there, right now some families are sitting without their fathers but then who cares? I mean no white person died, so? Ubuntu is something you know nothing about!

      richard.bosmano - 2012-10-02 16:58

      Poor people bringing children into the world without any hope for the future are to blame for their poverty,no body else.

      nkosikhonorman.ludidi - 2012-10-02 18:24

      black people are the one to be blamed about MARIKANA MASSACRE, how can you fight the police while u know that police can't pay u as you are not employed by SAPS?

      valkyriaza - 2012-10-03 13:19

      Ubuntu died long time ago. Those families are better off with the pension plan as opposed to 'breadwinner' who have lots of kids and drink their wages at the nearest shabeen.

  • Mutuwafhethu Emmanuel Ndou - 2012-10-02 16:51

    Delport,u have 4gotten dat de mine is not on air but on land.Ask yourself a question 'on whose land'?De issue of mines is not different from dat of farm lands.Im glad dat some white people are exposing themselves by their comments.I pray dat these comments should not be the hidden minds of some other white people who I consider hard working and whites who got their wealth not out of the exploitation of blacks, but honest collection of wealth

      Clayton Richard Delport - 2012-10-02 16:59

      Not your land china, and yes even if you own a house you can't mine, the contents belong to the mineral companies, it's funny you think because your black it's all yours, how about you get off your lazy ass and actually work for something

      acm.munro - 2012-10-02 17:42

      It is sad that there are so many racial comments, instead of commenting on the subject of the story itself. Fortunately there are people of all races who respect each other, and yes, there are hard working whites who got what they have today, (not wealth, just enough to get by ...), through hard work, using their own two hands.

  • travis.bruce.353 - 2012-10-02 16:52

    Let me translates Totsi and Bob's statement. Boo hoo white people are so mean to us. Sob sob... We can not do anything for ourselves because of white people... Boo hoo. Even though black people run the country and whites only make up 9% it is still their fault for everything. Sniff sniff! Blah blah nonsensical reference to snooker.

      khethu.ndlovu.3 - 2012-10-02 17:39

      Lonmin is owned by whites, somebody here told me africa is owned by blacks, so 1 evil south african black does something evil then its an african thing, so i gues it is proper to blame whites for the evil going on at lonmin, its reckless i admitt but we all must not be biased when commmenting on a particular post.

      acm.munro - 2012-10-02 20:50

      @Khetu - Lonmin not only owned by whites. Incwala Resources which is black owned, owns 18% of Lonmin, this not including the many private black investors.

  • travis.bruce.353 - 2012-10-02 16:58

    Let me translate Totsi and Bob's statement. Booh hoo it is white peoples fault for everything... Sob sob... we have to blame everything on white people because we can't do anything for ourselves... sniff sniff... even though the country is run by a black government and the population is only 9% white they are still oppressing us... we want to end up like all our other successful African countries and blame everyone else but ourselves until the country is in ruin... sniff sniff.

  • travis.bruce.353 - 2012-10-02 17:05

    Shamon

  • bibi.shakwane - 2012-10-02 18:00

    Why does it irk certain people that the judge asked to see the toilets?Its not like there was a living room/loft/patio or garden for him to see.There are only bedrooms -if one can even use that word and toilets for mineworkers

  • khethu.ndlovu.3 - 2012-10-02 18:07

    To all whites in here, please stop being defensive when when everything points out that a white man was being greedy. Both black and white are hammering on zuma for the R203 mills, youre just proving to africans that u dont complain about corruption becouse it is evil but becouse it is done by a black. You just prove to us that youre sure we are sooo stupid and want to use our stupidity to remove the anc from governing this country so da can take over, and there afterwards when we complain about da we will be killed and put to jail and be told to shut up, its a favour ure doing for us, whatever the reason killing of the miners cannot be justified, police should be adequately train to handle such crowds, your actions is frightening us very far away from the da.

      hilda.macarthur - 2012-10-02 18:40

      I was going to read the comments, but I've read yours and I think I know where it's going. Just for the record, I'm lily white and think it's disgraceful that there are so few toilet facilities. Most of us bitch and moan when the toilets at work have not been cleaned for a day. \r\n\r\nAnd please remember that there are extremists on both sides. Most of us just want a hate-free, successful country and an average life. I, and many others don't think blacks are stupid. In fact it's because we know that, that we can't figure out why we've ended up with the leaders we have.

      Annelize Grobler - 2012-10-02 19:28

      @Khethu... shut it 'BECOUSE' there is not only one other party to vote for other than the DA... 'BECOUSE' what most people are saying here is that we are gatvol for this corrupt party of yours ! if COPE is the stronger party, they then have my vote... BECOUSE we cannot continue like this ...

      barbara.jansen.90 - 2012-10-02 23:51

      You just complained that Zuma is corrupt, yet you still want him to rule SA? I just really wish your eyes would open sooner than later! Please stop with your self pity comments.....this issue is NOT about race!! Weird that the video of the shooting actually shows majority black policemen shooting at the miners on that sad day! My boss is also greedy and very wealthy, but I do my job and thank God I have food to eat and a roof over my head. I do charity work for less fortunate people so just remember that not all white people are bad so please stop generalising!!

  • opinion.blake - 2012-10-02 18:32

    Dear Judge. Can you please also come and have a look at the toilets where I work. It's the most dirty and disgraceful toilets ever. I work in a government hospital. We don't kill each other at this hospital because of the dirty toilets yet.

  • charnelle.bester - 2012-10-02 19:31

    This photo is an unfortuante and tragic event. Damm the man.

  • eugene.meyer1980 - 2012-10-02 19:38

    This is starting to sound more and more like a Top Billing episode.

  • repline.rasbanda - 2012-10-02 20:10

    @ Tstosibaby, Nope it doesn't hurt, you are whom you are. These miners "elected" (pun intended) to live in those conditions. @ Mbulelo Nope not at all. Im expecting to see the lawyers in rich houses (well most of them at least, giving exception to the gamblers etc etc) I understand why the Judge is visiting, but inspecting toilets - he is not a building inspector. AS far as I understand this is an inquiry into what happened at Marikana. This is not supposed to be an inquiry into what living conditions the miners vs their managers live in. By all means im happy to have an inquiry like that, but then call it an inquiry into the living conditions and not an inquiry into "what happened at Marikana" Personally I am of the opinion, the Judge has already become emotionally attached, and I can further then presume he has already made up in his "mind" whom the guilty parties are (or been told whom they are). And in this case they are going to make sure the mine "bosses" takes the blame, as they do not want the police to take the fall as that would mean we lose faith in our police service, which is an extention of the government, nor do they want to blame the voters, as this will mean they might get less votes.

  • ngoako.mathekga - 2012-10-03 08:16

    I see any people are looking at this issue at a racial level, forget that and look at facts. Lonmin will be badly hit after this commission lets alone those who are found guilty of the killing of security personnel, the police and the miners. The truth is that all parties did wrong and they try to clear themselves by pointing of fingers. The leaving condition of the miners is the road to all mine’s down fall.

  • susan.wright.92 - 2012-10-03 08:30

    Buildings and toilets do not fall into a state of disrepair by themselves.The users and residents of the facilities also have duty to keep their surrounds neat and tidy.Something may be old,but it can still be clean.This applies to all buildings and facilities not just those at the mine.Doors do not break off hinges by themselves, nor do toilets get blocked by themselves.Vandalism plays a great role here, as does the "it isn't mine,so I won't look after it "attitude that so many people have.

  • diederik.vanthof - 2012-10-03 08:42

    @ Tsotsibaby - Economic Freedom - not sharing - why must I work and share with others who don't? Economic Freedom = get off your backside and contribute to the economy! @ Bob - the world reality is that it runs on a Western-style economic platform - why? - because it works - time to get over yourself - socialism/communism etc do not work! You want a piece of it - join it - it is too big for you to change - join the Western orientated way of doing things and you may just start to benefit and get some of Tsotsibaby's "Economic Freedom! It however comes at a price - 12 years of school - a pass in matric of better than 30% - and then probably some more years of education - no schools? Refer government! Lousy education because of no books? Refer government? No jobs because of little foreign investment in SA? Refer dumb "Africa-orientated socialist-inspired economic policies" of Government that chase away investment! Get over yourselves and join the programme! Stop breaking it!

  • mcwonder.maxwell - 2012-10-03 09:10

    @ randomhero6661 no wonder you have 666 in you username, what special about white except looking down upon blacks. Point to note not all whites are bad we have many of them who are human kind, expect the likes of the 666s.

  • mcwonder.maxwell - 2012-10-03 09:19

    Treatment for backs is shocking witnessed by the way the miners in question are living, sanitation is nil . Why treating people worse than bogs which are now living like kings in the white maagers' home. Try ths and witness what we are saying; if the white man!s dog bake at you and threatening to attack you just shot it dead or chop its head off. Man the day will not go down before you are looked up no matter that the dog threatened to kill or attack you. Then what can we say of Marikana.

  • firstseed.mbeva - 2012-10-03 09:37

    I already know the judge's conclusion

  • malette.snyman - 2012-10-03 10:30

    Everyone of us who works buys our own toilet paper, but EVEN THIS must be supplied for them free of charge? WTFF??!?!?!

  • jacqui.daanevanrensburg - 2012-10-03 10:50

    Ablution facilites???? where has this judge been hiding for most of his life. Mineworkers live today like they did under the Nats. If he doesn't even know that, how can he do his job?. Ms. Viljoen drew up a smoke screen, question is did the judge fall for it?.

  • johan.jacobs.5680 - 2012-10-03 11:23

    Was nature calling?

  • philip.harris.967 - 2012-10-03 12:25

    @Claudia_Meads Claudia you are not the smartest. The ruling classes in Zim do not see their country as a failure. Neither do many other african countries. Many see Mugabe as a hero. In your eyes it IS a failure...but your opinion (assuming you are a white settler) is irrelevant in South Africa. We (including me) are no longer in power. Did you lose sight of that fact?

  • mzuvukile.maswana - 2012-10-03 22:34

    When watch the stock market on the tv on weekly basis and see the prices of gold and platinum increasing we as ordinary citizens just don't seem to care. Yet this is a very important thing for those working in the mines. The executives smile broadly on such news cause they know its bonus time for them yet on the other side the miners continue with their daily routines not knowing what is happening. This is suppose to benefit all those in the mine not certain portfolios. So the judge has every rite to ask to see the toilets knowing the good returns that these mines have been gaining.

      Tee.Matimba - 2012-10-18 08:30

      He has no right at all, he is probing the shooting not their leaving conditions. is he going to charge them of "filthiness"?

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