News24

Song doesn't intimidate - Malema lawyer

2011-05-20 12:04

Johannesburg - Claims the song "dubula ibhunu" (shoot the boer) intimidates people are not borne out by logic or evidence, Julius Malema's lawyer said during closing arguments in the hate speech case against the ANC Youth League leader on Friday.

"When does the intimidation start?" Vincent Maleka asked the South Gauteng High Court, sitting as the Equality Court.

"When the song was sung during the struggle no one had a problem with it."

He said Malema had explained to students at the University of Johannesburg, when he sang it for the first time last year, that it was sung to remember those "comrades" who had died in the struggle.

"Boer" was a reference to apartheid, Maleka argued.

Sensitivities

Civil rights group AfriForum and farmer's organisation Tau SA wanted the judge to re-define the word, Maleka said. He suggested a farmer should have sat in the witness box and explained to the court how the song made him feel.

Judge Collin Lamont said farmers were too nervous to come to court.

Maleka said he understood there were "sensitivities" on both sides. However singing "dubula ibhunu" did not demonstrate a clear intention to be hurtful, incite violence, or propagate hatred.

He said AfriForum's case was founded on a misconception caused by the translation of the song, which was an "otherwise harmless art form".

"Since this has started there has been no act of violence or attempt of violence [against farmers]."

If an order was handed down that stopped Malema from singing the song it would not stop others from singing it, he said.

Comments
  • Born To Fish - 2011-05-20 12:14

    "Since this has started there has been no act of violence or attempt of violence [against farmers]." Ok in what country do you stay in?

      Victor - 2011-05-20 12:27

      In the country of misconception and self rightshousness. Also known as Ifool Myself. Location, between left ear and right ear.

      poenskop - 2011-05-20 12:33

      Also, this was NOT a Song sung by so called ANC cadres. This IS NOT an anc liberation song...............

      saabnut - 2011-05-20 12:33

      And we have caught six flying pigs, piloting UFO's without valid licenses.

      Lab-Rat - 2011-05-20 12:34

      Maybe he get's his news from the sowetan?

      CraigColinRoyMcLeod - 2011-05-20 12:45

      @Lab Rat: he probably gets his news from the New Age ;)

      DeonL - 2011-05-20 12:47

      So they say it is a conspiracy theory and no Farmers are being killed? BS.

      paulf - 2011-05-20 12:58

      Is the controversial song urging the killing of “Boers” truly part of the ANC’s liberation struggle heritage, or are such claims simply an ingenuous, or perhaps sinister, attempt by the ANC leadership to defend its Youth League leader Julius Malema by distorting the historical truth? Or is the ANC itself trying to rewrite history after it accused the courts of doing so when two successive court rulings found the song to incite racial hatred – findings in line with one already made by the Human Rights Commission (HRC) as long ago as 2003? These are questions that come to the fore from an investigation into the origins of the controversial song, "Dubula iBhunu". The truth seems to be that words to the same effect first were chanted in Pan-Africanist Congress (PAC) circles in the early 1990s along with their infamous slogan of “one settler, one bullet”. Shortly thereafter, the late ANC youth leader Peter Mokaba borrowed the slogan and began chanting his “kill the Boer, kill the farmer” version in 1993 after the murder of ANC and Communist Party leader, Chris Hani. In none of the sources on the origins of the song which could be identified, could any indication be found that the song has ever been part of the ANC repertoire of songs during the struggle days. Although the controversial song sung by Malema is claimed now to be a historical liberation struggle song, it was not included in a 2-CD history and recording of 25 freedom songs released in 2002. Senior ANC and former Umkhonto we Sizwe leaders, including Ronnie Kasrils, Baleka Mbete and Pallo Jordan among others, had collaborated in the production of the collection. At the time of its release, the CD set was described as a collection of field recordings of songs and chants used in the liberation struggle, complemented by a radio documentary providing an overview of the songs, their history and context in the struggle. These songs were sung in ANC camps, at meetings, mass rallies, demonstrations and other gatherings. The set, it was said, was designed as an archival and historical document. Nowhere did it mention “kill the Boer, kill the farmer” or “shoot the Boer”. All indications are that the slogan or chant and the song, or even songs that developed from it, originated with the Pan Africanist Congress (PAC). In August 1999, Thomas Ramaila told the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that he had been a PAC operative and had been influenced by what he called a PAC slogan, namely “kill the farmer, kill the Boer” to kill a farmer, Neville Rudman. Most of Ramaila’s testimony and his amnesty application were rejected, but his reference to the slogan was not. The slogan/song in any version was used first in circles associated with the PAC in the early 1990s, although the PAC never officially took ownership of it and, after the first democratic elections of 1994, distanced itself from it. At almost the same time, the ANC’s Mokaba began using the slogan in 1993 when the armed struggle for all intents and purposes was a thing of the past. In that same year, a large crowd of PAC supporters marched through Cape Town’s Kenilworth and Claremont suburbs, demanding the release of PAC members who had been arrested in connection with the massacre of 11 churchgoers at the St. James Church and chanted “kill the Boer, kill the farmer”, “one settler, one bullet” and “one church, one bomb”. Also in 1993, at a rally in Tembisa near Johannesburg, both Mokaba and a PAC representative used these or similar words in speeches to the large crowd. Mokaba reportedly also urged the crowd to direct their “bullets” at then president FW de Klerk, declaring that he hated De Klerk. To which the PAC representative added, “war against the enemy... kill them”. In March this year, a former participant in an August 1993 march (called “Operation Barcelona”) against increased exam fees in Cape Town, wrote in a comment to an article on the Internet, that he was among PASO (PAC student wing) students in the march who chanted “kill the Boer, kill the farmer” immediately before American student Amy Biehl was killed by members of that mob. In 2002, then president Thabo Mbeki, as president of the ANC, and in 2003 then ANC secretary-general Kgalema Motlanthe - who is now ANC deputy president - firmly and unambiguously distanced the ANC from any such song or slogan, saying it had never been, and would never be, a part of the ANC. No claim was made then that it – in any form - ever had been an ANC liberation struggle song. That is until now, when, in March this year, Malema began singing a generic version of Mokaba’s chant. Suddenly senior ANC leaders, among them secretary-general Gwede Mantashe, are claiming this to be an old ANC liberation struggle song that apparently never was sung to incite violence against white farmers or whites in general, but was aimed against the apartheid regime. Mcebisi Ndletyana, senior researcher at the Human Science Research Council - in another defence of the song and attack on the judges who ruled against its use in an article in "The Sunday Independent" - claims the song embodies black hatred of “whiteness”, but not of people of European descent... with a very wooly explaination of what the difference is intended to be. No documentary or other evidence could be found that the chant or related songs were indeed ANC liberation songs before 1993, when the liberation struggle was practically over and constitutional negotiations in full swing. The Mokaba chant of “kill the farmer, kill the Boer” was next heard in June 2002 at an ANC Youth League meeting in Kimberley, and at Mokaba’s funeral in Limpopo. The funeral was attended by prominent ANC leaders, including Nelson Mandela and Mbeki, and the chanting was stopped immediately. The Freedom Front lodged a complaint of hate speech with the HRC, which subsequently rejected it. However Mbeki, as president of the ANC and the country at the time, on 19 June of that year told Parliament: “Nobody in our country has a right to call for the killing of any South African, whatever the colour, race, ethnic origin, gender or health condition of the intended victim. Those farmers and boers are as much South African and African as I am...” In June 2003, the HRC, chaired by Professor Karthy Govender, assisted by Professor Henk Botha and Mr Khashane Manamela, heard an appeal by the Freedom Front against the earlier HRC ruling. In their decision, delivered on 15 July, they overturned the earlier HRC ruling and found that the slogan "Kill the farmer, kill the boer" as chanted at the ANC youth rally in Kimberley and at the funeral of Mokaba constituted hate speech as defined in section 16(2)(c) of the Constitution. What is even more interesting is that part of the record of submissions made to the HRC at the time contains a letter from Motlanthe, then ANC secretary-general, stating that the ‘’utterance has never been, cannot and will never be a slogan of the ANC, not used by the ANC at all.’’ The logical assumption then is that, according to Motlanthe, it was not part of the ANC’s liberation struggle heritage.

      Loud n Clear - 2011-05-20 13:17

      "...Does'nt intimidate" Yea, Yea, Yea... and Zuma uses condoms

      eyrie - 2011-05-20 14:02

      I hate to remind the black people but the bantu came into the southern area of africa pretty much the same time the whites came in from europe give or take 50 years--it's all very well documented--we have as much claim to the land as a bantu

      MarkJM - 2011-05-20 14:08

      Probably in Never-Never Land, where the tooth fairy lives

      clark - 2011-05-20 14:37

      -This whole saga has focused on personal perspectives , personal opinions and a lot of imponderables in between. Frankly, I dont give a damn what Malema, his lawyer ,the Anc and whatever the judge decides,because overwhelmingly millions of whites in this country are decidely offended by the song . It matters not what the perpetrators conception of the song is, it matters only how the targeted race group view the song , it's racial content and it's threat of murder. Nothing else counts in this - no judge is in any position to decide this matter on legal precedents, or a point of law. This is all about people feelings and their right to live in peace and harmony,as provided in our constitution, without that right being threatened by some like this Malema idiot. and it's racial conotations. and it's

  • Smaal - 2011-05-20 12:14

    "Boer" is "Apartheid".... "Apartheid" = "Boer" - That in a Pedi dictionary? So if they want a reference to "Apartheid", why don't they just call it "Apartheid"?

      Gooi die klippe - 2011-05-20 12:43

      Because......Apartheid can't be shot and killed, but a Boer can be.

      JD - 2011-05-20 12:45

      It doesn't help trying to debate with them about this , they too stupid to realise how stupid they are.

      JohnnyBB - 2011-05-20 13:03

      ....Juluis Malema + lawyer = stupid idiots.....

      Anton Goosen - 2011-05-20 13:20

      I agree...sing "Dubula Apartheid"...then the meaning is clear, isn't it? But then again, that's not what the song REALLY is about, is it?

  • CaveatEmptor - 2011-05-20 12:15

    What a load of BS: "Since this has started there has been no act of violence or attempt of violence [against farmers]." "BOTHAVILLE. – Die name van die Potgieter-gesin van Lindley pryk reeds op die muur van trane vir boere wat op plase vermoor is.Sedert mnr. Attie Potgieter, sy vrou, Wilna, en hul dogtertjie, Wilmientjie (2), op 1 Desember 2010 vermoor is, is reeds ses nuwe name op die Muur van Herinnering aangebring. “Die Potgieters se hofsaak is nog nie eens afgehandel nie, dan pryk daar reeds nuwe name op die muur,” het mnr. Dion Haasbroek van die Hennenman-boerevereniging gister gesê. Hy is voorsitter van die komitee wat na die muur omsien. Die Potgieters se ses vermeende moordenaars, onder wie drie gewese plaaswerkers, staan nou in die Vrystaatse hooggeregshof tereg weens dié aanval wat rimpelings regoor die wêreld veroorsaak het. Wilmientjie is minstens die derde kind wat die afgelope twee dekades in plaasaanvalle vermoor is en wie se name hier aangebring is.Altesaam 1658 name van boere wat in Suid-Afrika vermoor is, is reeds op die muur aangebring. Verskeie nuwe name is vandeesweek op die opgeplakte bladsye met pen deur familie aangebring ." http://www.volksblad.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Potgieters-se-name-nou-ook-op-muur-van-trane-20110519

      Born To Fish - 2011-05-20 12:20

      Precisely...

      Kpt_Keyboard - 2011-05-20 12:49

      Die ding wat nou glad ni vi my sin maak ni is: As jy nou daai doners skiet wat jou wil kom dood maak dan gan jy tronk toe.... so wat moet n mens dan nou doen aan hierdie situasie!!! Aan al die plaaseienaars, kry vi julle elkeen iemand wat wag staan elke aand en betroubaar is, as daai doners kom dan skiet jy hulle half dood en dan begrawe hulle lewendig tussen die mielies, koring ens.

      tkotze - 2011-05-20 13:41

      Jy kan hulle skiet, en jy sal nie tronk toe gaan nie. Jy kan hulle net nie skiet as hulle weghardloop of om jou huis stap. Dit is opsomming van vuurwapen wet. Daar sal wel onmiddelik 'n saak geopen word maar dit is baie ver van skuldig vind. Dit sal eers nog moet bewys word dat dit onnodig was in die ondersoek, en dan moet 'n regter ook besluit jy het die persoon onnodiglik geskiet. Met al die regulasies het die vuurwapen wet gesê tenspyte daarvan dat jy nie iemand mag skiet tensy jy alle ander moontlike alternatiewe oorweeg het en jy geen twyfel gehad het jy in gevaar is sal die regter in ag neem die situasie in Suid Afrika met geweld, jou gemoedstoetstand in die situasie en jou veiligheid. So, iemand kom in my huis in, hy kry 1 kans om te stop. 1 tree verder en ek moet aanvaar hy het 'n mes of 'n geweer aangesien geen ou in 'n huis sal inbreek sonder beskerming en ek het geen twyfel die hof sal saam met my staan nie. Ek gaan wel sy maters los as hulle omdraai en weghardloop, en ek sal ambulans bel om te kyk of hulle die arme man nog kan help. En ek worry nie of dit 'n 16 jarige blanke seun, of enige ander ras is. Terloops, vuurwapen wet vat dit verder, beskerming hoef nie vir jou te wees nie, maar kan ook vir enige iemand anders wees. Voorbeeld is sekuriteits wag wat paar weke terug 'n hijacker geskiet het en daar gesê is hy was binne sy regte ten spyte daarvan dat hy nie ander alternatiewe gehad het nie.

  • Together - 2011-05-20 12:21

    can the boer reference to 'apartheid' - use the world apartheid. Then we'll know that the ANCYL isn't trying to incite part of SA's working population. Let's see if someone does the wise thing in this situation.

      EugeneF - 2011-05-20 12:34

      @sheep: Very apt screen name - you are just like a sheep...blindly following a bafoon.

      DesertConvert - 2011-05-20 12:36

      Yes sheep, you are a sheep

      Badger - 2011-05-20 12:42

      @ Sheep. Just Like Typical Sheep,,,,one runs and they ALL follow. Even with a run-a-way train heading towards them,,,,,, they F!@#$%^g run.

      Gooi die klippe - 2011-05-20 12:47

      swart skaap, swart skaap, jy dink net soos jou hol, ja baas, ja baas, ek dink dis 'n mo3rse jol......

      JD - 2011-05-20 12:47

      Hey hallo sheep, try using the name "baboon. It will suit you perfectly.

      Worldwise - 2011-05-20 12:47

      Sheep, how about allowing me to use a word you dictate I cannot use to refer to you?

      JohnnyBB - 2011-05-20 13:04

      ...stupid sheep.... ....he he he he..!!

      schmerz - 2011-05-20 13:12

      @sheep, be careful what you wish for [If only AIDS was properly engineered]

      Loud n Clear - 2011-05-20 13:19

      That effectively keeps the masses at sub-human level

  • Lew - 2011-05-20 12:22

    What of load of crap.Your late mate Mokaba,now dead from aids,chanted this song much to the disgust of many. You are obviously brain dead or just plain stupid.

      Worldwise - 2011-05-20 12:51

      It is my business as he was a public figure chanting a racist chant while visiting China and dabbling in sex with prostitutes. Read it all in Andrew Feinsteins book "After the Party". No wonder he died of AIDS while Thabo Mbeki and his little troll of a health minister were denying the disease exists.

  • sonnyg - 2011-05-20 12:23

    What a horribly weak argument, the whole point of struggle songs was to intimidate.

      EugeneF - 2011-05-20 12:59

      Notice how the poor thing removed his comment? Wait, I think Malema farted, the sheep probably thought he called him.

  • cmsnyman - 2011-05-20 12:28

    "Claims the song...intimidates people are not borne out by logic or evidence..." "Judge Collin Lamont said farmers were too nervous to come to court." So your saying the honourable Judge has no logic or that the fact that the farmers are to afraid (and rightly so if we look at the governments recent antics to intimidate people who don't support their "struggle") to take the stand at this case is not evidence? Somehow it seems logic as if your logic has failed you Mr Maleka.

  • Mike - 2011-05-20 12:28

    And the "K" word = angel. That's why it's banned

      Cire - 2011-05-20 12:46

      Actually it means unbeliever from the Arabic 'kuffar'. But don't expect an ANC lawyer to know that!

  • Charlie - 2011-05-20 12:30

    Drop it you ignorant racist thugs, what good does it serve the country to keep singing this song?? anc policy it seems to divert attention from corruption, mismanagement, high crime rate and theft!!! Mandela must be so proud!!!

  • Cheetas - 2011-05-20 12:33

    Let him sing his hate song and spread the ANC policy of racism ! The ANC is a racist party and the voters will start to understand that. The song is more important to the ANC than nation building and service delivery !!

      Francois - 2011-05-20 13:09

      Mad Man, I suggest you go search on the internet what racist means. It means when a person from one race, no matter the colour, shows a hatred towards a person of another race regardless of the colour. So get educated you halfwit idiot...

      Cheetas - 2011-05-20 13:17

      Sorry Madman, I remember racism is a human thing ! In animals they call it instinct !

      Jonathan - 2011-05-20 13:30

      HAHAHA. nice one mad man. You sound just like your mate malema, very entertaining. Maybe try picking up a dictionary.

      Bad1hq - 2011-05-20 13:52

      @ Mad man, LOL I really hope you are trying to be funny or sarcastic? Anders het jy nou net jou naam vergat!

  • nic69ers - 2011-05-20 12:33

    Agreed!! If they can sing that song then others should use the K word!!

      Bad1hq - 2011-05-20 13:50

      Two wrongs don't make a right...

  • Badger - 2011-05-20 12:34

    "Take It Out The Bush ????"

  • ANC Ancestor - 2011-05-20 12:34

    It was not even a struggle song. The first time it was sung was in 1993, and the struggle was nearly over. The South Gauteng High Court already found this song to be an "incitement to commit murder". Who does this lawyer think he is fooling?

      carjan - 2011-05-20 12:44

      He fools himself.

      Cire - 2011-05-20 12:45

      Well, he's got himself fooled!

      Mike - 2011-05-20 12:49

      He's getting paid heaps by the ANCYL to fool the judge and he'd better do a darn good job lest he himself become an instant ancestor.

      MaanDonkie - 2011-05-20 13:44

      The "lawyer" is a product of Zululand university where "diegrees" are orginaaizd and its my raaait to have one because Im previaasly disadvantaged.

  • BigMoose - 2011-05-20 12:34

    As Shakespeare said: "The first thing we do,let's kill all the lawyers." [King Henry VI, Part II]

  • Jarrid - 2011-05-20 12:34

    The fact is that if a white South African Group was singing kill the blacks then that group would have been shut down, arrested and be serving a life sentence somewhere. Malema is a joke and needs to be quartered!

  • CM - 2011-05-20 12:35

    come paulf give us your post about the origins of the song (or lack thereof) some people need to be informed.

  • Tango_Blast - 2011-05-20 12:36

    if Malema is her, who's running Hell

  • wisegirl - 2011-05-20 12:37

    Vincent Maleka: don't you know that it is up to the listeners of the song to decide if they feel intimidated, not to the lawyers. How dare you decide for us how we should feel.

      Cire - 2011-05-20 12:44

      Ve haf vays und means to make you feel vat we vant. This guy has obviously make a close study of Goebbels. The bigger the lie, the more people will belive it - or else!

  • Jonathan - 2011-05-20 12:37

    speaking from a white youth that was too young to know what apartheid even was at the time, and that has been brought up with the perception that everyone is equal and everyone deserves equal rights... I find the comment "your deed" - when referring to apartheid - due to the colour of my skin extremely insulting. Maybe re-evaluate your stance @Sheep. I believe in paying tribute to the past, but not at the expense of other people. We should all stand and sing together (world cup 2010).

  • eugene smit - 2011-05-20 12:37

    Why does "intelligent" men argue about this? they studied but cant reconize the obvious facts. For all you uneductated people. The word "comrade" is popularly used by Communists, which means that if Mandela, mugabe, Maleam are communists all the people in this country should be very very scared indeed! If i sing a song with communist brothers about killing someone it will happen, if you need effidance look into Africas bloody past. There freedom fighting comrades where nothing lese but terrorists killing their own people and whites. Because they could not get the country they started killing innocent people!!!!!!! Open your bloody eyes people! its not about sharing...its about taking!!! Our prev goverment always said their war was agaist communists!!!

      eugene smit - 2011-05-20 12:41

      Did Malema not sya in his own words, Some people you need to send to heaven before they would leave their ground"

  • Ockert - 2011-05-20 12:38

    No the "Lawyer" is right but it is Incitement to commit murder, and when sung by his drunken, smoked up follwers thats what it is. Look at all the farm murders, home murders with violence and torture !!

  • Cire - 2011-05-20 12:41

    I'm intimidated and so were all of those dead whiteys

  • Rob Gunning - 2011-05-20 12:43

    It matters not if others sing the song but it does matter when a political "leader" does.

  • tripwire - 2011-05-20 12:45

    The words kill ,shoot & murder ... We all learned before primary school what they mean. YOu show your kids and friends white people and say "Boer" as some would have use the K word in the past. To join the two in a sentence clearly reads exactly what they mean. You don`t have to over analyze every sentence in life to spin it your way that`s what con artist do isn`t it ??

  • Nathan Loftie-Eaton - 2011-05-20 12:48

    Vincent Maleka is delusional if he actually believes what he is saying. I'm not a farmer but I certainly take offense to "shoot the boer"

  • Fred - 2011-05-20 12:51

    Logic and reason. Two western philosophies that are really struggling to take hold with the ANC. How can the call to KILL and ethnic minority not be considered hate speech. And I quote: "However singing "dubula ibhunu" did not demonstrate a clear intention to be hurtful, incite violence, or propagate hatred." Really is there another meaning for "KILL"? Some other meanings from a thesaurus: take/end the life of, assassinate, eliminate, terminate, dispatch, finish off, put to death, execute; slaughter, butcher, massacre, wipe out, annihilate, exterminate, mow down, shoot down, cut down, cut to pieces; informal bump off, polish off, do away with, do in, knock off, take out, croak, stiff, blow away, liquidate, dispose of, ice, snuff, rub out, waste, whack, smoke; euphemistic neutralize; literary slay.

  • RVQ - 2011-05-20 12:53

    Looking to clear something is the word 'Boer' offensive? Should I be avoiding it like the 'K' word?

      JD - 2011-05-20 14:05

      Well since our war seeking mr. malema started singing this song I have be using the K word ...... and I'm enjoying it.

  • Duncan - 2011-05-20 12:53

    The only reason the ANC still want to be able to sing this song is to try and remind people of what they did 20 years ago and not what they are doing NOW!!

  • Kay_man - 2011-05-20 12:56

    There's more important things to worry about than a singing of a struggle song. Lets all work together to make this country a better place to live in. we are all african regardless of the colour of our skins. "Apartheid" is not equal to "Boer". There's apartheid also within the black community, there's apartheid within the indian community, there's apartheid within coloured community.. Apartheid is everywhere. Yes, S**t happened in the passed ! no one can deny that and i am not saying people should forget about that.. But we need to move on.. Lets think of the next generation and make this a better country to live in..

  • thatsawesome - 2011-05-20 12:57

    Well i guess we could chant how we used to whip the slaves in line.. but that wouldn't get DA many more votes would it ?

  • RTG - 2011-05-20 12:59

    Malema reckons that the term 'boer' in the song is another word for apartheid or repression, or so his testimony seems to go. Then he walks outside and says he'll change the word 'kill' to 'kiss' so instead of singing kill the boer he'll sing 'kiss the boer' So, does that mean he's prepared to sing "Kiss apartheid" or "Kiss oppression"? Ummmm, just how stupid is this muppet?

      Stryder - 2011-05-20 13:03

      Excellent point RTG. Please forward this to the half wit lawyers that Afriforum has hired.

      CC - 2011-05-20 13:23

      Vry good point RTG. It is as if Malema admits that the word "kill" is the probelm in the song and not the word "Boer". Therefore he changes the "kill" to a "kiss". He could have changed it to "kill apartheid" which is what they say it actually means. Then even I will support it - because the only apartheid still going on is BEE and affirmative action.

  • Pieter - 2011-05-20 13:01

    This is pretty retarded to be quite honest. Let us think about this logically. The term "Boer" is the name of certian demographic of white, spanish and portuguese settlers that also come from the voortrekkers. The word also translates to farmer. The word in Afrikaans still remains a refernce to the demographic of people. Just the same as Zulu, British, San, African American etc. So when you say "kill the boer" you are, despite all the petty excuses and attmepts at twisting facts, saying kill this group of people since the boere are a nationality. They may call it heritage and a struggle song all they want but fact is the "struggle" was ended 17 years ago and it still does not change the meaning and context of the words in any way, shape or form. Here is a simple question. Will I be allowed to incite mass crowds into singing "Kill the Pedi" or "Kill the English" or "Kill the coulered"? Hmmm. Will I? NO. Because the word kill is being directed at a race/demographic. The Scottish will never sing "Kill the British" much like the Jewish will never sing "Kill the Germans". Case closed. Now get over it. Maybe they should let me into that court room.

  • spilsie69 - 2011-05-20 13:01

    Just stop sining the godam song, and stop waisting my tax money!!!!!

  • DoublySalmon - 2011-05-20 13:02

    Glad I left/fled the country when this started.. I was surely intimidated by it. If anyone chants that they want to kill me how can I not get troubled? Surely humans are afraid when a dog growls, so much more so when a self-described militant, revolutionary, uneducated man leads the chant with many followers. Knowing Africa and knowing human nature I know they are fueling the fire to harm Boere. If they want to remember the struggle, sing songs about peace or at least improve the lives of the majority who now suffer under the ANC, more so than under the NP.

      JD - 2011-05-20 14:09

      If it's war they want , then it's war they will get. I'm going nowhere, waiting patiently to start defending this country I love with everything I got.

  • clark - 2011-05-20 13:03

    - Coming from a lawyer earning a big fat fee, that's just not going to wash. " When the song was sung during the struggle, nobody had a problem with it " - Two things - That depends if you got a black or a white skin - somebody has got to tell these idiots the struggle is over and the good news for them is they won. They're now in power - the boer'gevaar' is no more. The song is redundant - it achieved it's purpose. The only purpose it's continued singing will achieve is racial hatred and disharmony. The Anc are an evil ,sinister party setting about the destruction of the country's well being , prosperity and unity.

  • RobertKay - 2011-05-20 13:04

    So where is Julie-Ars's lawyer able to make a logical assumption? He's not white, he's not a farmer, so how would he know how it affects people? He's an idiot - that's for sure.

  • Currie_Mafia - 2011-05-20 13:05

    Too much emphasis on a stupid song...I don't understand that language & don't care...

  • Jeremy - 2011-05-20 13:06

    With about 15 000 farm murders since 1994, this song does not "incite" farm murders, it celebrates them. Jumping up and down singing this is the same as singing victory songs at a ANC election after party. Their unconscious, and lack of understanding, mentality is testament to how absolutely stupid and insensitive these people truly are. I wonder how the Jews would react if everybody started singing "Put a Jew in a oven" - I mean, its not like anybody will do it, but it could be celebrating what already happened.

  • PilgrimX - 2011-05-20 13:06

    Please, Mr Logic Lawyer, explain to me why I feel intimidated when that song is sung!

  • ExRecce - 2011-05-20 13:11

    The word "Boer" is not declared offensive because we do not take offence to being called as such. We carry that name with pride. It was earned with bloody hands and sweaty brows!! South Africa has one grouping of people that take offence to whatever you call them though. They still do not know what they are or what they want to be called...........Poor nameless people........Imagine how difficult it is to be witless, groundless, motherless & nameless??

  • Bhlynd - 2011-05-20 13:11

    You clueless bunch of ANC supporters. Please go read up on your own history. Just because a "black man" said so does not mean its truth. The song was not an ANC liberation song. In actual fact the version sung by your comrade used the words "shoot the boer, kill the farmer". Here is some history lessons for you... http://www.leadershiponline.co.za/articles/politics/496-kill-the-boer

  • TESCO1 - 2011-05-20 13:15

    Malema's layer is either a fool of non description or something worse to believe that himself. I am an African, fluent in 7 South African black languages. The word 'Ibhunu' is not and has never meant 'apartheid'. It means a white farmer. Ubandlululo ( Zulu), ucalucalulo (Xhosa), Kgethulo (Sotho), etc, mean apartheid not ibhunu. When we sang that song, long before Malema et al, we really wanted to kill white people because then they were perceive as enemies. After his releae,Mandela instructed us not to sing those song again. To hell with Malema and the LOT ... This song must stop full stop!

      johan - 2011-05-20 13:42

      THANK THE LORD FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU.ALL NOT YET LOST.

  • Kay_man - 2011-05-20 13:16

    Pieter - you don't even know your history.. let me educate you. Boer is the Dutch and Afrikaans word for farmer, which came to denote the descendants of the Dutch-speaking settlers of the eastern Cape frontier in Southern Africa during the 18th century, as well as those who left the Cape Colony during the 19th century to settle in the Orange Free State, Transvaal (which are together known as the Boer Republics), and to a lesser extent Natal.

  • Milana - 2011-05-20 13:22

    Why did you remove my comment administrator, don't be biased here when you see facts.

  • Taurusaurus - 2011-05-20 13:32

    "Logically", a song or any lyrics or words, containing the phrase or sentence, "shoot the boer" (or "shoot person(s) / ethnicity"), is reasonable cause for FEAR, as it amounts to: a credible threat of violence, incitement of violence against a person or persons, discrimination against a person or persons (based on ethnicity / culture), incitement of murder - 3rd degree for instigation, and defamation of character by implying the person or persons "should be shot" (as uttered in the statement / lyrics / phrase / sentence). I'm not a lawyer, but I know the law. Clearly this "Malema lawyer" was labeled as such for sharing the BONEHEADED mentality of South Africa's popular clown. Maybe we should sing "Shoot the Squatter", since, in "Malema lawyer's" opinion, it doesn't provide evidence or logic for fear, or intimidation. Idiots - The lot of them.

  • Ederik - 2011-05-20 13:35

    It has nothing to do with intimidation, but by inciting the crowds to murder whites.

  • johan - 2011-05-20 13:38

    IF YOU SING 'SHOOT THE BOER' IT MEANS YOU WANT TO SHOOT THE FARMER.IN THIS CASE IT MEANS THE FOOL IS A RACSIST. WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BECOME A RAINBOW NATION WHERE GOODWILL AND PROSPERITY WILL PREVAIL.ALL THIS IS BECOMING UNDONE WITH THIS HOOLIGAN HAVING A FREE REIN.I THINK HE IS MOST PROBABLY BEING PRODDED ALONG BY THE POWERS THAT BE.

  • Margaret Gould - 2011-05-20 14:01

    One only had to look at the placards displayed outside the court to understand that the uneducated masses really do take it literally. The brutal killing of thousands of farmers is proof of inciting to kill. The real tragedy is that our country is still so boged down by hatred, violence and racism. People like Malema know this: Does anyone think for a second that they give a dam? They know they can get away with whatever they want. Nothing anybody says is going to change that. The only thing that would change the situation is action.....

  • Ruaan - 2011-05-20 14:05

    So if we start sing a afrikaans song about tying a rope around a black oke's ankles and dragging him along the road the blacks won't be upset!?

  • jock van wyk - 2011-05-20 14:12

    it starts when you are white and a farmer