Sparring jailbirds spark laughs
2004-02-12 17:33
Pretoria - There was laughter in the public gallery at the Jali Commission into prison maladministration on Thursday as one prisoner questioned another about fabricating evidence.
At one point, commission chair Thabane Jali had to stop a heated exchange between the two convicted murderers to ask the public to behave.
Koos van Gunt, in the role of cross-examiner, and the witness, Hendrik Slippers, repeatedly accused one another of lying.
The crowd found it especially funny when Slippers kept asking Van Gunt to address him in English. Both men are Afrikaans.
Slippers repeatedly interrupted Van Gunt, saying: "It is my turn to speak now".
Jali kept reminding the men to allow one another to finish their sentences.
Learned about plot from prisoner
On Wednesday, Slippers testified that former police hit squad commander Eugene de Kock and his "lapdog" Van Gunt held meetings with Pretoria Local Prison warders to fabricate evidence.
Their intention, he said, was to discredit Louis Karp - who testified before the commission about his alleged rape and abuse while awaiting trial for car theft in 2001 and 2002.
On Thursday, Slippers said he learnt about the fabrication plot from Van Gunt's own mouth, and from things he saw himself.
"Then you saw things that I didn't see, and heard things I didn't say," Van Gunt said. He denied all Slippers' accusations.
"You know yourself," Slippers told his questioner. "You know you always lie to us."
Court spectators burst out laughing when it emerged that Van Gunt's wife, whom Slippers said was able to "pull strings" to keep her husband from being transferred to another jail, was merely a typist with the police.
Slippers was also questioned about his reference to Van Gunt being De Kock's "lapdog".
"I don't know where you get lapdog from, I look more like a Rottweiler," said Van Gunt - a rather bulky man.
De Kock serving two life terms
De Kock was present at Thursday's proceedings, and would be given an opportunity to question Slippers if he so wished.
De Kock is serving a life term after being convicted in 1996 of 89 criminal charges, including fraud, conspiracy to murder and murder.
He has received amnesty on some of the counts, but two life sentences still stand.
Van Gunt, also a former policeman, is serving an 18-year sentence for murder.
Slippers was jailed for life for murder.
- SAPA