News24

Suspect 'handcuffed' when shot by cops

2012-02-20 09:51

Johannesburg - A Springs man who was shot dead by police over the weekend was allegedly wearing handcuffs when he was killed.

The Independent Complaints Directorate are investigating the death of Rean Ramdin, a 29-year-old man who was arrested for drug possession at a Boksburg nightclub.

Ramdin told his parents that he was going out on a date on Friday evening with a woman he met in rehab, The Star reported. His father gave him some money and his blue Opel Corsa bakkie.  

Later that night he met up with his cousins at the Presley’s nightclub in Boksburg. When his cousins decided to go to another venue, he stayed behind. Ramdin gave his cousins his house and car keys.

When they returned a few hours later, they were not allowed inside as police were apparently raiding the club.

The family only found out the following day about Ramdin’s death after his sister contacted a police officer who told her of her brother’s death.

“According to the colonel, there was an incident at Presley’s. My brother was arrested for drug possession.

“He was handcuffed and put into a police car, and at the corner of Rietfontein and Rondebult streets, at a stop street, he escaped,” the sister, Melody, said.

“He was handcuffed and put into a police car, and at the corner of Rietfontein and Rondebult streets, at a stop street, he escaped,” Melody said.

The policeman told Melody that two warning shots were fired, but her brother continued to run. He was then shot in the back by one of the officers.

But the family want to know why police never contacted them about Ramdin’s death.  

He had apparently left rehab just a week earlier.


- Were you there? Send us your eyewitness accounts

Comments
  • Henning - 2012-02-20 09:59

    Trigger happy cowards! Shooting the man in the back while handcuffed. They probably already knew the identity of the man, why shoot him. If he did escape they could've just collected him later at his house. Idiots!

      cosmos.ndebele - 2012-02-20 11:04

      Facts ar still sketchy & u people ar already making conclusions typical of the crowd here.

      Fredster - 2012-02-20 11:12

      Cosmos...How do you get out of the police car when the doors cannot be opened from the inside? and how does a hancuffed man run faster than the policeman? What happened about shooting someone in the legs? What about following the accused in the police car..? I smell a cover up

      JohhnyBGood - 2012-02-20 11:28

      http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/handcuffed-man-allegedly-killed-by-cops-1.1237792

      JohhnyBGood - 2012-02-20 11:30

      *Rules on deadly force The use of deadly force by the police is controlled by section 49 of the Criminal Procedure Act. According to the act, police can shoot: * To kill only if their life or those of others are in danger. * If a crime is in progress and there is no other way of stopping its progression. * If someone who is escaping arrest is likely to seriously harm others. - The Star

      JohhnyBGood - 2012-02-20 11:32

      More on cops http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/suspect-beaten-home-searched-without-warrant-1.1238100

      Wouter - 2012-02-20 18:01

      @Mark - And your comment is made out of blissful ignorance. I was a reservist a time ago and it is a stressful THANKLESS job. Criminals in SA aren't care bears; being nice to all will get you and innocent people killed quite quickly. A raid is a very high-risk operation; tensions are high and many things can go very wrong very quickly, so if a cop asks you to sit still on the ground it isn't because he's being a jerk, it's because he has to look for narcotics and illegal firearms and he has to assume everyone is a potential threat until proven otherwise. He's doing his job. This bloke recently came out of rehab and was found with drugs on his person - he might have been high, resisted violently and hence the police could've rightfully suspected he was wanted for a serious crime. An innocent man does not run, he stays and does everything in his power to prove his innocence. What I can say is it might turn out that both police officer and suspect made a panicked mistake; only difference being that the suspect paid for it with his life.

      Adrian - 2012-02-20 23:13

      Pretty obvious and par for the course. Moral of the story, always have enough money to pay the cops bribe or this is what happens. The door is opened and you are told to run. Dead men tell no tales. Thats why they want us all disarmed.

  • Tammy - 2012-02-20 10:00

    and once again the parents are the ones who suffer

  • Neil - 2012-02-20 10:02

    The cops should be charged with murder. Shooting someone in the back for running away is totally unacceptable. Why didn't the police pursue the guy?

      martin.vandermerwe - 2012-02-20 10:16

      They are to fat and lazy to anything properly.

      samantha.maybery - 2012-02-20 11:12

      Because they're a bunch of unfit, fat and ill-trained excuses for police officers, that's why. How did he manage to open the car door anyway? Surely if they had done their job properly he would never have been able to escape in the first place. Pathetic.

      Louise - 2012-02-20 21:55

      Trigger-happy they will serve & protect....

  • criticallyhonest - 2012-02-20 10:04

    I have really mixed feeling about this....apart from sadness for his relatives. On the one hand criminals who disrespect police activities (as opposed to policemenen, that is a different matter entirely) do need a reality check. On the other, being shot in the back seems harsh. Surely with a car and fit officers he could have been aprehended or even imobilised by a low body shot. I guess we will have to wait for the distrotions, excuses and then a report.

      Glenda - 2012-02-20 10:12

      Good comment. But this report is one sided. Hope we hear the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

      Colleen - 2012-02-20 11:05

      Why was the van door not locked? For all we know someone might of opened the door from the outside, it's happenend before.

      Rhimigious Percy Mhlabi - 2012-02-20 11:40

      The suspect was arrested & handcuffed, locked @ the back of a police van, from my own understanding all the police vans lock from outside, these policemen stopped the car & opened the van & asked for a bribe as no one will ever open the back of those van worse whilst the are handcuffed,

  • Thelma - 2012-02-20 10:07

    Behki Cele should be charged with all the police brutality and murders!

      alanaR.rodriguez - 2012-02-20 13:27

      I wonder Thelma, if you where raped and the suspect was running away, would you like the cops to shoot to kill.... Reality is, none of us where there so we cannot comment on the circumstances!! ...and to crucify all cops is really pathetic! You clearly have NO IDEA what Cele has done for the members of the SAPS!!!!

      alanaR.rodriguez - 2012-02-20 13:28

      ...and NO... I am not in the SAPS... I just choose not to go through life with my "eyes wide shut"!!!

      Thelma - 2012-02-20 14:24

      Was this youngster a rapist?????? No he was not. Surely the cops can tell the difference between a rapist and a drug addict. Please don't confuse the two crimes as there is a huge difference....And yes none of us were there but just reading the article makes one question what actually happened. To shoot a person who is handcuffed and that was supposed to be locked in the back of a police van/car makes one wonder. The public is not ignorant to the fact that the SAPS is corrupt and that it's members are bullies!!! Cele might of done something for the members of the SAPS but he has done nothing for the public to gain trust and respect for the SAPS.

      Lloyd - 2012-02-21 08:43

      Very well said Thelma

  • juan.sander - 2012-02-20 10:08

    I'm not excusing the cops shooting the guy, but damn, why on earth did he run. What did he think would happen??

      Thelma - 2012-02-20 10:14

      Fear knowing that he had just been released from re-hab the week before...They could of just shot him in the leg IF need be, instead of shoot to kill!

      juan.sander - 2012-02-20 10:20

      The way I see it, if you run away from the police you must expect to be shot at. NEVER RUN AWAY FROM THE POLICE!!

      JohhnyBGood - 2012-02-20 11:21

      who says he tried to run ?

      Dan - 2012-02-20 11:40

      You don't think that he was probably being assaulted by the police officers and then decided to run, if he did run? Have you experienced what police officers do to suspects? They assault them for fun! People who are in support of police shooting suspects will only know what it means when one of their own is killed. If we want to eliminate suspected criminals then we should advocate for the death penalty where a person is put to death after a proper trial.

      juan.sander - 2012-02-20 12:01

      @ Johnny The article states that he ran away from the police. Please read it again. I'm not condoning the loss of life, it's very sad. However he was caught in possession of drugs, maybe he was even selling them to young people, we don't know the whole of that story. And then he excaped and failed to halt after 2 warning shots were fired. As for people saying they should have shot him in the legs, this is not the movies where you can hit a moving target exactly where you want. I think everyone is just jumping on the bandwagon here because of all the bad press the police have gotten recently.

      Tyrone - 2012-02-20 12:39

      i tend to to agree with Juan.sander. Why would you run away frm the police? especially after 2 warning shots?

      Dean - 2012-02-20 15:04

      He was in the police vehicle, apparently he managed to open the locked door of a police vehicle and flee this already brings light to the fact that if he "possibly" escaped then the cops were not doing their job correctly...there is a few articles and witnesses that prove that it was not a drug bust but that a fight broke out and he was arrested, it is said that he was protecting his cousins from physical harm before his arrest only later after he was shot did they find the drugs in his possession... apparently the police officers let him out to interrogate him, that resulted in him trying to flee.. so it is not clear of what had happened exactly..

      jeremy002 - 2012-02-20 16:38

      A man gets out of rehab (drugs/alcohol rehab?)A week later he goes to a club. Clubs are only about drugs and alcohol. Why play with fire? Why his father gave him money and lent him his vehicle is something few of us will understand, unless he lied about where he was going. He gets nailed for drugs again. He tries to escape from the police. They fire warning shots. He continues to run. Sorry for him and his family, but he obviously learned nothing in rehab, took his chances and paid the price. The axe of judgement fell, and no amount of speculation of slagging the police will bring him back.

      jeremy002 - 2012-02-20 16:42

      Last comment should have read: The axe of judgement fell, and no amount of speculation or slagging the police will bring him back.

      Gail - 2012-02-21 18:29

      Until these cops have been investigated etc there is no real proof that he ran. It is entirely possible that they released him and demanded a bribe from him and he refused so they threw him back into the back of the police van and drove on thinking he would change his tune if he believed he was going to cells. They stopped a 2nd time and got him out and again demanded a bribe which he again refused to pay. We have only their word that he escaped twice. Maybe they walked him away from the van and walked back leaving him there and decided that he could identify them so he had to die. How dumb to claim he escaped twice, I mean if he escaped once why wasn't he cuffed to the van so he couldn't escape again? Something very fishy about their story and it paints them in a very sludgy light. There are however many policemen who are not corrupt and do good work so let's not generalise. These guys face danger daily and they also have families and they don't exactly get paid very well so it is easy for them to be led astray. The victim should not have been in a club where drugs were available if he had just come out of rehab. Sad for his parents but ultimately he placed himself in a dangerous situation.

  • Peter - 2012-02-20 10:09

    So he ignored two warning shots?

      Thelma - 2012-02-20 10:16

      The warning shots are "hear say" the police still have to proof that they fired warning shots and we all know that they will come up with the proof!!!!

      paullombard17 - 2012-02-20 10:34

      We all know the way they operate - shoot now ask question later, They couldv easily shot him in the back and then shot 2 shots into the ground or air AFTER THE FACT, ICD is useless and benefit will be given to some bull$*it officer that will backup his partners lies on what transpired, Yes he ran, yes he mightv been in possesion of a substance but that is NO reason to be gunned down like a wild animal !!, he was in handcuffs- why not chase him down and arrest him on a second charge of escaping fom custody??

      Peter - 2012-02-20 10:37

      The whole thing is a "hear say", I'm completely against irresponsible shooting by police but you have a guy who was found with drugs, broke the law by running away from police, allegedly ignored two warning shots. RSA is a pathetic country, with so much crime in this country but we still blame the police on such incidences.

  • Glyn - 2012-02-20 10:10

    Cops don't run! Don't you know that?? Too fat!

      E=MC2 - 2012-02-20 10:25

      KFC should be charged with murder

  • Graham - 2012-02-20 10:12

    It’s got completely out of hand! Be afraid, be very afraid! This government is has become scary! We have become completely desensitized by the constant reminders in the news of how corrupt and useless our government really is. Every day we read about more corruption and maladministration and we comment on how shocking it is, but surely the time has come to do more?

  • martin.vandermerwe - 2012-02-20 10:12

    My kids are tought to fear cops, as they are the baddies, how sad is that!

  • Marion - 2012-02-20 10:13

    May he RIP and sincere condolences to his distraught family. The sooner our cops are forced to undergo daily physical fitness training the better. If they had just chased him on foot they would have caught him easily. Difficult to stay on your feet if your hands are cuffed. At what point in all of this were these cops in any danger?

      Adrian - 2012-02-20 23:37

      Physical fitness training won't help the mental fitness issue. There's the rub Marion.

  • Zipho Ka Nomafu Myaluza - 2012-02-20 10:14

    the police did not shoot to kill this guy,they simple aimed for the head

      Skhanyo - 2012-02-20 11:24

      wow!!! our policemen must have a real problem, if they aim for the head(as you say) but end up shooting a guy on the back! By the way, what you wrote here is non-sense. There is no such unless you are making fun of our man in Blue!

      makesuthink - 2012-02-20 11:40

      I suppose you are right If YOU get shot in the head you will not die why? NO BRAINS Nothing in there at all

  • martin.vandermerwe - 2012-02-20 10:15

    Do yourself a favor, go into a police station and see the height of intelligence, this is the type that is suppose to protect the country, i have a spider with a higher IQ than most of the cops in SA.

      Skhanyo - 2012-02-20 11:25

      you are 100% correct!

  • Chris - 2012-02-20 10:17

    Well, Bheki Cele told his forces to 'shoot to kill'! This in a country which has abolished the death penalty! Leaves the door wide open for dirty cops to silence anyone who might finger them.

  • Perfume - 2012-02-20 10:18

    Bheki Cele is too blame for these trigger happy cops!!!!!

  • Mhlophe - 2012-02-20 10:24

    Yes the guy was busted with drugs, but yet he ran away.What could a cuffed guy do to an armed policeman , the least they could've done is to persue him. Now the fitness of the police is questionable.

  • Philip - 2012-02-20 10:25

    Look it is terrible but what would our views be if the guy was the one who sold drugs to our kids and one of our kids did a o/d on drugs and died??. Just asking.

      Skhanyo - 2012-02-20 10:34

      dat is a story for another day! now let us fight police brutality!!

  • jannie.debeer - 2012-02-20 10:30

    Everyday we complain about the lawlessness in the country. When a suspect is apprehended, cuffed and makes a getaway, warning shots are ignored, and he is killed, we complain. Think about the inocent who have to suffer the consequences of drug abuse. The families of teenagers who can no longer let their children go anywhere. The loss of freedom, the threat to society, and the disdain toward the Police who are trying to protect us against overwelming odds. Send a message like the Chinese, we will not tolerate drug dealers. I feel for the parents of the suspect, but we as society must make a stand against the uncontrolable crime in this country.

      George - 2012-02-20 10:57

      Jannie You get worried about drugs. This man was cuffed whilst shot and because he was apparently having drugs does it make the fact that the cops killed him correct. Are you saying well done to the cops? i would also say well done if the chased the suspect and caught him without killing him. This is no good and trust him me if you look at this you will see the real story. They did not do anything to apprehend the suspect they just killed him. How do you tell the cops well done. They cannot even catch a person that committed one hundred rapes in three years and when they do he is alive but just go and have some drugs in your possesion and they will kill you surely.

      dlawre30 - 2012-02-20 12:44

      Nowhere does it say that he was pushing drugs. He had just come from rehab which to me shows that he uses drugs.

      Samantha Cloete - 2012-02-21 12:10

      He was a dealer not a user, he needed help no 2 be killed, society needs mre people who can help people who need it instead of condemn dem, dats wat we need people who care 4 oda people regardless of race or nationality!

  • Koos - 2012-02-20 10:30

    Pity the police didn't kill the manufacturer, the mule and dealer of the drugs instead of a drug junkie (which id they knew) in cuffs probably high and stressed out of his mind. The fat bastards was probably just too lazy to chase him do down in their vehicles. How pathetic?

  • Nigel - 2012-02-20 10:32

    shoot to kill, isn't that what Cele told them?

      Philisiwe Msomi - 2012-02-20 10:40

      but he was not armed!!!!, instead he was handcuffed!!! So why shoot him...?

      Mhlophe - 2012-02-20 10:43

      That was a stupid statement by him , dont you think? Shoot to kill on what grounds?

  • Michelle - 2012-02-20 10:32

    How did he manage to get out of a vehicle while handcuffed???

      E=MC2 - 2012-02-20 10:39

      ha! good question!!

      Perfume - 2012-02-20 10:41

      That is what I said to my colleague, unless they opened the door for him and told him to run, knowing full well if he fell for the trick it would give them reason to shoot him.

  • Simon - 2012-02-20 10:38

    Any then Celebe denies he said , Shoot to kill

      E=MC2 - 2012-02-20 10:40

      i think you mean Cele

      Adrian - 2012-02-20 23:51

      To help you remember Simon, Selebe is the chief of police who is already in jail. Cele is the one who is still on his way there.

  • Gwen - 2012-02-20 10:43

    case one: lying on the ground on his stomach.... case two: suspect was handcuffed ... what the hell is going on with these flipping so called police ? ?

  • nspaynter - 2012-02-20 10:45

    This brings back horrible memories of my experience. was transported a few times between prison and my home for searches and I was put into the back seat with the child lock on. One time when I was been returned There was only a driver. I headed for the back seat but he invited me to sit in front. On the way back to prison he pulled off into a village and visited somebody, leaving me alone in the car for about 30 minutes. I was not handcuffed and as I was unsentenced I was wearing ordinary clothes. I stayed where I was and just enjoyed the sense of freedom from the car seat. I realize now that they were wanting me to make a run for it so that they could shoot me.

  • solverman - 2012-02-20 10:46

    How fast can you run, with your hands cuffed behind your back... your balance would also be affected, how fat or lazy was this "policeman " , I also imagine the cop had a partner... probably just as unfit. In this day and age, running from police is quiet stupid... especially trying to escape from custody . This is not Great Britain, where police ask you polite manner not to climb over the wall or run away or they may have to use pepper spray. We live in a violent society, where the police are part of the viscous circle.

  • Gail - 2012-02-20 10:53

    Can't comment, Was not there, don't believe much about anything anymore.

  • mishkaness - 2012-02-20 11:03

    It's all becoming very Animal Farm, as the Pigs treat (and shoot) the rest of us like dogs.

  • James - 2012-02-20 11:04

    It's the African way - uniform = power = judge, jury & executioner. How many stories have not had on the same issue and on verbal abuse by people who say they are there to serve and protect. It seems the serve and protect slogan is a bit slanted - serving and protecting what, or who?

  • Don - 2012-02-20 11:06

    Two warning shots fired, why, for what, did the prisioner pose a threat ?, Were the cops in such a bad state of fitness that they could not outrun and catch a handcuffed prisioner ? are they such bad shots that they could not shoot in the legs, why the back ? Something not sounding right.

  • Leon Olivier - 2012-02-20 11:07

    Wow now go and read the same report at the Beeld page. The family only discovered what happened to him when they went to the Springs morgue.

      Perfume - 2012-02-20 11:11

      I read that as well, the family said he had identification on him, and could not understand why the cops did not phone to tell them that he was dead.

      solverman - 2012-02-20 11:16

      Because the cops needed time to come up with a plausible excuse, as to why they shot a handcuffed man in the back.... thats why....

  • Sajid - 2012-02-20 11:13

    Im starting to hate the cops as much as i hate criminals.

  • Clayton - 2012-02-20 11:16

    1 bullet is apparently less trouble than getting some exercise...

  • anthony.swart - 2012-02-20 11:23

    The cops are to fat and lazy

  • eltonlee.benjamin - 2012-02-20 11:26

    So here are my thoughts, they probably wanted to shake him down to see what else he had so they can pocket it and then he made a run for it. Shot and the cuffed again.

  • JohhnyBGood - 2012-02-20 11:27

    Why have my previous comments been removed ? Maybe because I mentioned that IOL had better reporting ????

      E=MC2 - 2012-02-20 14:47

      The censor police are out in full force lately dude! had plenty of my truthful comments deleted too

      E=MC2 - 2012-02-20 14:47

      aaaaand, have you also noticed how 3rd hand news24 reporting is lately? More & more stories start off saying "according to xxxxx"... shoddy

  • Afrikopite - 2012-02-20 11:29

    hmmmm, shot in the back, hand cuffs on...one week from rehab...family only finding out the following day...SOMETHING IS MISSING HERE.

  • eltonlee.benjamin - 2012-02-20 11:30

    So my thoughts are that what if they stopped the vehicle to shake him down and pocket for themselves and that is when he made a run for it. Any person cuffed should be done with arms behind their backs. Further more the vehicle should have been secure. There are things that dont add up.

  • Barefoot - 2012-02-20 11:30

    Note to self never run from police even when handcuffed, when Bheki started with the shoot to kill there were praises because of a harder stance on criminals, now people mostly suspects are being shot then the statement is no longer right, one question why did he run?

      Reshma - 2012-02-20 20:18

      How do we know he even tried running away...I don't believe the cops.

  • Rebaone - 2012-02-20 11:33

    A handcuffed person is not able to run for a long time and is not able to run properlly. were they trying to show their friends that they can shoot? Are they not able to run? Having a gun does not mean that you have to use it even when it is not needed as it is clear that they did not have to use it but they had to use their legs.

  • Khotso - 2012-02-20 11:34

    if the person is handcuffed and put at back seat the police know wthat they have to do with the door so the suspect cnt run away. this thing of people get killed by law enforcer is not good at all. last week young boy was killed in soweto by constabel while he was not armed really goverment need to do sumthing about this thing.

  • Tanie - 2012-02-20 11:35

    The 'ABNORMAL' thing about the story is that the offender's last name is Ramdine,that can't happen to him according to news24 loyalists, such things should only happen to the Magagula calibres,that is the only time it is accepted and welcomed as 'NORMAL'. Then the loyalists will be punching their keyboards so hard that words like 'GOOD RIDDANCE' appears on your screen.To me, 1 scum off my face.... more oxygen available for me....... 1 less client for the drug dealers who are terrorising out neighbourhood. GIVE MR COP 2 BELLS,HE IS SERVING HIS COUNTRY WITH DEDICATION AND COMMITMENT.

      JohhnyBGood - 2012-02-20 11:39

      You had better hope you dont get arrested. You arrogant, measly worm... Shame on you.

      Emma - 2012-02-20 13:52

      omg you are hideous... i hope your grandchildren never make the same mistake this young man did by falling into the scary and often endless pit of drug abuse.... repugnant, heartless, nasty, unnecessary, cruel- are you proud of that? i know for sure that my mum would be ashamed if she heard anyone ever call me that... why are you so mean????????

      Dean - 2012-02-20 14:25

      He got out of rehab a week prior to this incident, he was in the process of making a positive change to his life, he was trying..Tanie it seems like you have done everything in your life the correct way no mistakes have been made by you what so ever? you have been a 100% law abiding citizen all your life?..hmm question that then make your silly comments..

      Reshma - 2012-02-20 20:20

      who are you calling scum? Did you know him? you are an oxygen thief.

      Samantha Cloete - 2012-02-21 11:36

      Dats disgusting, he was a user not a dealer, its because of people like you dat our youth are in da state dat dey r in,in my opinion u r da scum lady, sis u obviously not a mother and if u r u obviously not very compassionate, regardless of his trangressions as a user he didn't deserve his fate, no one deserves it regardless of race... Its a horrible death of a young man who had so much 2 look forward 2!!! So dnt be so heartless, he was luved by many!!!#disgustedyounglady @ da disrdegard people have 4 a lyf!

  • CathrynReece - 2012-02-20 11:37

    Dodgy

  • John - 2012-02-20 11:42

    My bet is the 1st two "warning" shots misses.... But the 3rd got him. It seems a police habit to fire 3 shots at time...

  • Vuyo - 2012-02-20 11:42

    Maybe he saw the police selling drugs and he is a witness . How could a handcuffed person open a door and run away from a police vehicle and police could'nt cacth him . These polics are criminals

  • maylani.bezuidenhout - 2012-02-20 11:43

    Good grief, are they allowed to shoot a man in the back like that? Surely the shoot to kill is only if he is threatening lives??

  • Mohsin - 2012-02-20 11:44

    trigger happy buggers!

  • Tau - 2012-02-20 11:47

    Total negligence by the police. How one escape from a locked police car. worse being handcuffed. well we dont know if at the back or the front but he was handcuffed. secondly we dont know if it the police car was a van or private car.but there is something sinister if not the coverup by the police. They quality of the drug is not mentioned here. possibly they stole it for thier own gain and close the matter by Murdering Rumdin.. They are lazzy fat and definetly they cant run. but shooting someone in the back being hand cuffed is way out. Murder is the case.No investigation.

  • MarjorieVenterSmith - 2012-02-20 11:47

    Easier to kill him than to run after him. Our cops are becoming a MAJOR problem. They really shoot first and then ask questions.One wonders what else they get up to if it is so easy for them to kill someone. That cop probably slept like a baby that night. Sick world we live in.Sick society and sick police.

  • Elle-Black - 2012-02-20 11:54

    So let me get this right,when approached by criminals we need to start prying that we wont get shot and when approached by the police it's the same case?

  • Emil - 2012-02-20 11:54

    Its sad that people are killed senselessly when they pose no danger. Shot him in the leg. Were there 3 or 5 shots fired that fatefull saturday morning.