News24

Toll application '4 years too late'

2012-04-24 14:10

Pretoria - Opponents to Gauteng's tolling system were four years too late in bringing their court action, the North Gauteng High Court heard on Tuesday.

"I know of no other case where four years after the event the applicants come along and try to invoke the court's power," said David Unterhalter, for the SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral).

The applicants, who include the Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa), had created their own urgency, he said.

"Those who sit back and wait for whatever reason have to suffer the consequences."

Unterhalter said they would still have their day in court, but it would just be at another time.

The toll roads were declared in 2008.

Not urgent

He was presenting argument to the court on why the application should not be seen as urgent, and asked for it to be dismissed.

It was a "fantastical proposition" for Outa to argue that because it was only formed in March 2012, it should bring court action at this stage. The body was made up of different members, including the Automobile Association.

Litigation had to be done at a reasonable time, which was 180 days after the declaration of the toll roads, said Unterhalter.

He said the applicants knew that tolling was decided on as the preferred means to raise funding for Gauteng's freeway improvement project, after other options had been considered. Only the issue of tariffs was up for discussion.

On February 4, 2011 the first notice announcing the tariffs was published.

This was followed by a huge public outcry and a steering committee was established by government to review the fees.

"The only issue on the table was the fee structure... not the user pays principle," said Unterhalter.

Vincent Maleka, for the transport minister and the Gauteng transport MEC, would present his case after lunch

Exemptions

Earlier, a Treasury lawyer said concerns about who is exempted from Gauteng's tolls are a "small tail wagging a large dog".

Arguments by the Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa), in a supplementary affidavit filed on Saturday, that no provision had been made for toll exemptions, were a "small tail wagging a particularly large dog, which is this case", Jeremy Gauntlett SC told the court.

He said the respondents, including the transport minister and Sanral, were prejudiced by the approach of Outa and other applicants.

"They are trying to raise these additional points now on a tacit premise... that it's urgent."

Outa is arguing, in its supplementary affidavit, that tolling could not proceed on April 30 because no exemptions had been made for public transport.

The court denied an application by Outa to amend its founding affidavit.

Prejudiced

Judge Bill Prinsloo said the respondents opposing the application were prejudiced and were not given the proper time to consider the amendments.

"(They) may not be properly able to consider the amendments during this session, especially because we only have a three-day court week," he told the court.

"In the face of this prejudice... I make the following order that the application for amendment is struck from the roll."

Prinsloo said the applicants had to pay the "wasted" costs.

The applicants were Outa and three others.

The broader application continued, with the court hearing argument about its urgency.

Comments
  • Piet - 2012-04-24 14:16

    Yes Scumral, Then you why do you not divulge all the project details to the public so that we can see how you got from 3 years ago to the present!

      Alan - 2012-04-24 14:20

      Exactly Piet! Only recently did Scamall advise how exhorbitant the toll fees were going to be. Yet, they (Scamall) don't have to disclose all the details of what went on behind the scenes? I dont think so!! Sorry Scamal - no matter what the court says - the Tolls will be stopped. Cosatu doesnt give a toss what the court says, and most people by far think that the system is unjust and corrupt.

      Irene - 2012-04-24 14:24

      Spot on Piet. Nobody was told anything about this. If we all knew that we'd have to pay tolls for one additional lane there is no way this would have been approved. The filth sneaked it in under the guise of the World Cup and forgot to mention we'd be expected to pay. Why don't the lawyers ask where the money is that we've already paid for each litre of petrol?

      rbphiri - 2012-04-24 14:29

      Next thing scumral will build a time travel machine to take the judge back in time to the point where they supposedly made a public announcement regarding the E-toll financial rape system.

      Alan - 2012-04-24 14:35

      Well RPhiri - sometimes bribes or political pressure can be cheaper......

      Tuco - 2012-04-24 14:44

      it was 3 years a short while ago , now its 4 years. WTF!!!! I don't care who was too late. the public wasn't informed about this scam and there would have been such an uproar the SWC would have not happened. I'm still not paying for this scam!!!

      Jason - 2012-04-24 14:54

      http://toxinews.blogspot.com/2012/04/sanral-from-australian-newspaper-on.html

      eugene.meyer1980 - 2012-04-24 15:42

      For some reason it seems that SANRAL believes they have the power to make us pay. If we dont pay(for SANRAL's F up with the pension fund) how will they fund their e-toll gates???? I dont know of anyone who has a e-tag, or anyone who knows anyone who has a e-tag. Just dont pay people. We might get a bit of a punch next month when JMPD starts pulling us over to see if we do pay the toll charges, but what are they going to do? Lock up the ENTIRE Gauteng?!?!?!?

      rynhardt.ferreira - 2012-04-24 16:57

      @Faizie - Take your e-tag and shove it up your @$$hole!!

  • Marion - 2012-04-24 14:16

    Am I the only one who doesn't recall hearing about eToll until last year/late 2010?

      Alan - 2012-04-24 14:22

      Nah - the details were al kept under wraps on purpose. However (I think) that the public have suffered one corrupt deal too many, and things are going to get very ugly on Tolling unless scrapped.

      Piet - 2012-04-24 14:22

      The ANC started to dream this idea up since 2003. Remember the high occupancy lanes on the Ben Schoeman. Then everybody just thought they will never do it due to cost! Wrong!

      rbphiri - 2012-04-24 14:30

      They probably made the announcement when we were all asleep.

      Irene - 2012-04-24 14:50

      RPHiri ~ Probably. Like they told us to go to sleep early and get clever when the Eskom debacle happened.

      danie.dejager - 2012-04-24 14:53

      It was in the pipeline but never really covered by the press. Anyways. One were expecting a reasonable toll levy. Not the current price.

      Jason - 2012-04-24 14:59

      Damn if we had elections every year we wouldn't have e-tolls :(

      Marion - 2012-04-24 15:08

      @Irene - you're right. It was selectively televised on those nights we had load shedding.

      Nosiphom - 2012-04-24 15:18

      The declaration was in 2008, but it was not necessarily made public, that is the difference, and there was no consultation.

      Faizie - 2012-04-24 16:14

      Time to catch a wake up, join the Etag queque. Lead SA its the right thing to do

      rynhardt.ferreira - 2012-04-24 16:57

      @Faizie - Take your e-tag and shove it up your @$$hole!!

      Ina - 2012-04-24 18:00

      Well who could have expected that they would charge such exorbitant toll fees? They are truly trying to take us for a ride (pun intended) but we don't want to go, that's for sure - not at the price they ask for the ride! With all the millions of cars travelling on these roads daily, they will still make a fortune even if they charge 10c per km.

  • Philemon - 2012-04-24 14:16

    David Unterhalter - you are a dog!

      Felix - 2012-04-24 14:30

      http://www.123people.co.uk/s/david+unterhalter http://www.monckton.com/barrister/53/david-unterhalter-sc

      rbphiri - 2012-04-24 14:32

      No his not a dog, dogs are man's best friend. We can refer to him as that hole where the sun doesn't shine.

      Dave - 2012-04-24 14:34

      @Felix, Sanral can afford top dog I see...

      Alan - 2012-04-24 14:40

      @ Felix, That is scary.

      Kobus - 2012-04-24 14:41

      Bloody agent lol

      Philemon - 2012-04-24 14:51

      Some of his several victories achieved was "Abuse of Dominant position", yet he is on SANRALS side. Thats a bit of a massive contradiction. This guy has no value system. Just goes to show that lawyers are worse than politicians! Bloody sharks!

      Marion - 2012-04-24 14:51

      @Felix - thanks for the links. From second link : he is as much at home in cases concerning cartels and abuse of a dominant position, as he is in advising upon mergers. If SANRAL is not abusing a dominant position then what is it doing? Here this man is defending SANRAL which intends to s***w the public royally.

      Martin - 2012-04-24 15:22

      fuuuuck him, no etag, sucks when all the yrs of study, and blood sweat and tears actually mean nothing to anyone.

  • Dave - 2012-04-24 14:18

    And in 2008, were we told what we know now? I dont think so....but I dont like the way this is moving

      rbphiri - 2012-04-24 14:35

      ANC - Another Network of Criminals

  • Smile - 2012-04-24 14:20

    There is something fishy going on... Why did the the ANC goverment even allow this if it knew there would be a public outcry? I wonder who has been paid what?

      Irene - 2012-04-24 14:25

      anCancer are the beneficiaries via the company in Austria.

      Piet - 2012-04-24 14:25

      Remeeber that blacked out document Scumral gave to Vavi.....

      Leon - 2012-04-24 14:46

      this is why. http://toxinews.blogspot.com/2012/04/sanral-from-australian-newspaper-on.html

      rbphiri - 2012-04-24 14:48

      Our president can't hear our outcry with all that noise from his running shower head.

      Marion - 2012-04-24 14:53

      @Piet - I remember it. Just wonder why COSATU hasn't told us what the documents have revealed.

      rbphiri - 2012-04-24 14:54

      Do you know why they call it Down under? becoz those australians involved with scumral don't mind stooping so low. And as for scumral, i might as well unzip my pants, well u on ur knees coz u suck.

      Alan - 2012-04-24 15:15

      @RPhiri - it's Austria - not Australia

      gary.dasilva - 2012-04-24 16:03

      SANRAL - From an Australian Newspaper on South Africa E-Tolls Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to Facebook "The deal between Sanral and Kapsch of Austria, the e-tolling operating company is not with the corporate entity, but with Kapsch Sweden. Kapsch Sweden used to be SAAB Aerospace, a 50% shareholder in a company called SANIP. British Aerospace held the other 50%. SANIP is alleged to be the payment vehicle used by SAAB and BAE to pay the alleged bribes of around R100Million in the Arms Deal saga to ensure that the Gripen fighter was chosen. The names Hlongwane, Modise, ANC, Zuma, Shaik figure prominently in the list of alleged recipients. So why Kapsch Sweden, not the corporate entity? I leave it to your imagination. How much? According to the corporate structure used to implement e-tolling in SA, about 80c of each rand of profit can be repatriated to Austria via Sweden. Gauteng alone expects to generate about R350Million a month in toll fees. Assuming a very conservative 10% profit available to be repatriated, that means about R28Million a month to go overseas"

      mariana.barry - 2012-04-25 13:03

      Fought so hard for democracy - and now? We will all be celebrating on Friday, however its worth NOTHING!! Any attempt to speak up and it gets refered to as "wasted costs" NICE ONE SA !!

  • camp.j - 2012-04-24 14:20

    Ive heard of a runaway jury but could this be a runaway judge?

      Alan - 2012-04-24 14:23

      yeah well - maybe he had better keep on running...

  • wbrummer1989 - 2012-04-24 14:20

    Strike strike strike....

  • clinton.bowden1 - 2012-04-24 14:23

    Well since 2008 people have been trying to get information that goverment / SANRAL have been dodging left right and center. Only now since the tolls are meant to go live do we seem to have any inisght. In addition questions still need to be answered. And you have the cheek to ask what have we been doing since 2008? What has SANRAL / goverment been doing to listen to Joe public instead of planning daylight robbery?

  • rbphiri - 2012-04-24 14:25

    David Unterhalter you stupid tinker bell of a man, basing your arguments on fairy tales. I don't recall any public announcements regarding the e-tolling system in 2008. You grasping at straws, what were you and the other butth0le sanral members smoking back than.

  • SA - 2012-04-24 14:26

    Where were the pubic consultations on the Gauteng e toll? trust us if the Government needs money to maintain our infer structure, then deal with the R30 billion worth of government corruption in 2012. We are already taxed to death and we won’t pay. The ANC need to understand that the people voted then in and as sure as hell can vote then out. SARS tax revenue increased by R75 billion last year, so we all wana know where this money is going because we then people are not benefiting from South Africa’s increasing wealth (only the fat cats at the top are enjoying these funds. WE WON’T PAY

  • Warwick - 2012-04-24 14:26

    Bollocks, sanral kept this from the public, it was not in their interest to be honest. This lawyer is the type that defends pedophiles and rapists & says, 'just doing my job'. I hate this type of lawyer like I hate polititians, they are scum!! sanral is a scum organization.

  • Irene - 2012-04-24 14:26

    Interesting. A few minutes ago the toll was '3 years too late'. Now it's 4. Whatever it is, WE'RE NOT PAYING!

      Koos - 2012-04-24 14:27

      You also noticed that.

      Alan - 2012-04-24 14:31

      time flies

      rbphiri - 2012-04-24 14:42

      Time flies when you dealing with lies.

      wbrummer1989 - 2012-04-24 15:08

      I noticed it as well, what are they drinking in the office???

  • David - 2012-04-24 14:27

    Protecting themselves again. They can't afford for it not to go ahead - civil servants pension at risk. This corruption has to stop. I think that we have all had enough and this is going to blow up big time.

      Irene - 2012-04-24 14:32

      If the anCancer vaguely resembled a decent and honest government, I doubt they'd be getting the response they are. Their days of corruption are over because we can all see straight through them. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! Who would have thought that the tolls would be the downfall of the Cancer.

  • nhla.prv - 2012-04-24 14:27

    And it is hard to understand why the project details are still kept a secret 3yrs later. I never heard of e-tolls till after the 2010 Soccer WC.

      Martin - 2012-04-24 14:35

      if im honest the only time i became aware was during the erection of the gantrys. which was after the world cup... i wanna find the articles declaring it in 2008

  • Bradley - 2012-04-24 14:28

    Lawyers, don't like em much

      rbphiri - 2012-04-24 14:46

      People will rather like their mother in law

  • Koos - 2012-04-24 14:29

    A lawyer is NEVER your friend. Never trust a lawyer, he will say anything for a buck and remember, you are always assumed guilty until proven bankrupt.

  • Irene - 2012-04-24 14:30

    Why don't SCAMRAL prove that the public were advised. Where are the full page newspaper adverts?

      Just_my_opinion - 2012-04-24 14:49

      They must have put a 3 line message on page 5 in the news papers where they knew every one is going to miss it! SCAMRAL Bastards!

      rbphiri - 2012-04-24 15:06

      They still working on their dumb time travel machine, which will go back in time to kidnap an easily fickled and bribable group of moronic people, who they can bring back to our present time to testify on our behalf that we received public consultation.

      Judith - 2012-04-24 15:15

      SCAMRAL have walked all over us since we started objecting early last year - now they will find out that we have the better boots!

  • Delils - 2012-04-24 14:35

    David Unterhalter and the rest of them can afford this extra charge, the government does not care about the people and the people will have to cough up! To hell with this government! We need change and we need it now!

  • dewalds3 - 2012-04-24 14:35

    Hoot at the gantries! Even the one in the opposite lane. Long, irritating, hoot. Smile at everyone around you not to get donnird and point at the gantry! We cannot write on these walls only, we need a transition to physical protest. Start today!

  • Geoff - 2012-04-24 14:36

    The issue is not that we must pay for the roads it is the cost of eTolling. A few cents onto the price of petrol would have more than covered the building costs. The bulk of the toll fees proposed goes towards paying for the tolling system and not the building of the roads and even someone like David Unterhalter should be able to work that out. Could SANRAL explain: the cost of an eTag kilometre is 30 cents but no tag it is R1.67. Is the cost to administer R1.37? Who controls when and how much the toll charges can increase, ie. SANRAL recently changed the non eTag from 66 cents to R1.67. How soon will they change the 30 cents to R1 plus.

      Irene - 2012-04-24 14:52

      Petrol is going up 21c a litre next week.

      Marion - 2012-04-24 14:55

      @Irene - you've got to be joking!!!

      Irene - 2012-04-24 15:01

      Marion ~ Unfortunately not. Check out 702. News24 is being very slow to report it.

  • audioninjutsu - 2012-04-24 14:37

    Another judge owned by the ANC...

  • siyadyosiba - 2012-04-24 14:37

    is the 30 April COSATU march still on? Now we have to prepare to get jailed as we will pull off all the Etoll cameras.

      Marion - 2012-04-24 14:56

      @siyadyosiba - I want to know where protest action will take place and what form it will take.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-04-24 15:04

      @marion, No details at all, COSATU has. Hopefully, they will furnish during the course of the week.

      Marion - 2012-04-24 15:11

      @siyadyosiba - just hope that they announce in time for everyone who is totally p****d to attend. Those who have jobs must apply for a day's leave for the 'long weekend' and strike. Full pay, no work.

  • Morne - 2012-04-24 14:38

    I WONDER IF THEY CAN TELL US WHAT WE WILL BE PAYING IN 4 YEARS TIME,,,BECAUSE EVEN BY THEN I WONT BE REGISTERED...KISS MY LILLY WHITE @SS

  • Kurt - 2012-04-24 14:39

    Did SANRAL not say the upgrade was suppose to be for the Soccer World cup and when the event arrived and they where not finished....???? Someone at news 24 should pull out the articles with SANRAL statements

  • KenB - 2012-04-24 14:41

    Guys, everyone knows this system can only work if you buy e-tags. DONT BUY

  • Steynje - 2012-04-24 14:41

    SANRAL, go e-tag yourself.

  • Maredi - 2012-04-24 14:41

    VOERTSEK MAN. I WON'T BUY IT!

  • Shane - 2012-04-24 14:42

    Beware the rise of the militant Joburger ,we have had enough of paying through the nose for everything ,WE WILL TAKE THIS NO LONGER ,Scumrail you have been warned!

  • Dhavandran - 2012-04-24 14:44

    "Litigation had to be done at a reasonable time, which was 180 days after the declaration of the toll roads, said Unterhalter. He said the applicants knew that tolling was decided on as the preferred means to raise funding for Gauteng's freeway improvement project, after other options had been considered. Only the issue of tariffs was up for discussion.". yes then why wasn't the public made aware of the fee structure then? you have put the cart before the horse. typical anc govt.

      Alan - 2012-04-24 15:26

      hmm - more like the cart i front of the ass...

  • Loo - 2012-04-24 14:47

    Theres a law against exploitation. ANOTHER thing .. Why were we given the implication and costs piece by piece. I know CAUSE they KNEW it would cause a public "vloermoer" . Like the frog in the luke warm water initially and heat increased slowly. In the end it burnt to death without realizing it. The oldest trick in the book is called "REEL EM IN" .. Now KNOW this MR. SCUMRAL . .I for one aint no fish nor frog. .. so screw you dude. All we can do now is civil disobedience on a scale never known before, no court , no Hoo haaa , no nothing will help. We must let the system simply collapse on itself. ONLY WAY

  • mnbain - 2012-04-24 14:48

    "VOGON CAPTAIN: There’s no point in acting all surprised about it. All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display at your local planning department in Alpha Centauri for fifty of your Earth years so you’ve had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaints and its far too late to start making a fuss about it now. "

      antoinette.jordaan - 2012-04-24 15:10

      Exactly! :) Hehehehehehe - good quote!

      Maetsane - 2012-04-24 15:30

      Is that so, well let us wait and see about that. If that is the case why is Scumral working through the night changing terms and conditions? Why have they roped in Pravin "Gavini" to sell the pathetic case about the country's credit rating.

      Felix - 2012-04-24 15:40

      "So long and thanks for all the fish!"

      Lynton - 2012-04-24 15:58

      I blame it on the mice :)

  • Allen - 2012-04-24 14:50

    The bottom line is that they are trying to pay for the toll road in a period of less than 6 months. Thereafter .."it's the Graaavy!" If they had made the toll 10c per Kilometer, noone would have complained at all, but no, let's just toll the motorist on top of every other tax that he pays and make life more and more difficult for all! I propose that everyone just uses the alternate routes so that the only vehicles on the toll roads are taxis and busses. It will make life a living hell for everyone, but maybe that is what is needed. Make the toll roads another ANC white elephant.

      Irene - 2012-04-24 15:18

      Time to wreck the urban roads by avoiding the highways. They're already so full of potholes and their destruction will put the ancancer filth under even more pressure.

  • shaficks - 2012-04-24 14:51

    I remember the consultations in 2008. Its the same day that the ANC declared that it had failed us a a government and promised to pay for the tolls with the money its going to recover from corruption, to be exact it was the 31st of September... remember now? NO TO E- TAG!!!

  • Janet - 2012-04-24 14:51

    When will we know where to go on the 30th?

      Marion - 2012-04-24 15:00

      Yes, when.

  • mnbain - 2012-04-24 14:51

    "VOGON CAPTAIN: What do you mean you’ve never been to Alpha Centauri? Oh for heaven sake mankind it’s only four light years away you know! I’m sorry but if you can’t be bothered to take an interest in local affairs that’s your own regard. Energise the demolition beams! God I don’t know…apathetic bloody planet, I’ve no sympathy at all…"

  • Carry - 2012-04-24 14:53

    NEVER TOO LATE TO STOP SCAMral - NEVER. THE anc WILL NOT ONLY CONTINUE TO PUT THE PRICE UP, BUT WE WILL BE PUNISHED FOR A LIFETIME PAYING BACK FOR THEIR INCOMPETENCE.

  • Loo - 2012-04-24 14:55

    All I can say is .. govt guaranteed the 17 billion of the pension fund it invested into scamral. It is going to collapse on itself,, same as AARTO will do very soon. That means at least 34 Billion will be lost out of govt coffers once again. Doesnt this make the arms deal scam potentially look like .. erm .. small fry in the long run. As the losses govt will incur will well exceed the 60 billion mark in the near future as a result of this.

  • Just_my_opinion - 2012-04-24 14:56

    Toll application '4 years too late' ?? They must have put a 3 line message on page 5 in the news papers where they knew every one is going to miss it! SCAMRAL Bastards!

  • Grant Henry - 2012-04-24 14:58

    Taking the back roads was a way of avoiding the traffic on the high ways in peak hours. I can only Imagine how backed up those back roads are going to be when the tolling comes into effect. Time to leave evan earlier for work

      Irene - 2012-04-24 15:04

      It's worth putting up with traffic jams because when the highways are empty they'll realise even more what a huge mistake they've made in thinking that the public will fall for it. It will also destroy the already destroyed and potholed suburban roads and put even more pressure on the anCancer.

      Marion - 2012-04-24 16:01

      Because we drive a borrowed car and aren't prepared to subject the kind owner to fines / summonses etc., my hubby will be using the back roads. I foresee a very irate man for the next few months, but it will be worth it. NO eTAGS. NO eTOLL.

  • Victor - 2012-04-24 15:06

    What do you call 100 lawyers at the bottom of the sea ?..........A good start !!!!!

  • Francois - 2012-04-24 15:09

    Leaving all emotion aside, Adv Unterhalter makes a valid point as far as the urgency is concerned.

      Riaan - 2012-04-24 15:15

      Ag pelease. It is just a delay tactic from scumral. If they were so sure of their case, they wouldn't have pondered on technicalities.

      Maetsane - 2012-04-24 15:35

      If there is no urgency then suspend the operation of the e-tolls until they get their house in order, it works both ways. If there is no urgency on the side of OUTTA, then there is no urgency to implement on their side.

  • Morne - 2012-04-24 15:10

    I WONDER IF THEY CAN TELL US WHAT WE WILL BE PAYING IN 4 YEARS TIME,,,BECAUSE EVEN BY THEN I WONT BE REGISTERED...KISS MY LILLY WHITE @SS

  • sean.nijenhuis - 2012-04-24 15:11

    Just don't register. They will fail in the paperwork!!!

  • Ndumiso Luthuli - 2012-04-24 15:11

    did the government about the implications the E - tolling will have on the food prices, we already find it hard with the fuel hikes were will we get the money for E - Tolling. To hell with the ANC.......

      Irene - 2012-04-24 15:20

      LOL! The government only thinks about the government and how much more taxpayers money they can steal without anyone noticing. That's why they want the info bill passed so they can hide all their theft from us.

  • Badger - 2012-04-24 15:13

    I don't care what Unterhalter says, if the public / consumer say F*** You and Your Trolls (sorry Tolls) the whole system WILL collapse and all of you will be left standing with your D***s in your hands.

  • Maetsane - 2012-04-24 15:19

    Is it just me? but I cannot get over the sheer arrogance of the advocates for the department of transport and Scumral.Fine cheek!They are concerned about gov. being unable to raise credit and pay its debts. What about our debts? What about our hardships, if these blimmin tolls go on. What about us the ordinary people, we also face dire consequences if these stupid things go on.

  • Francois - 2012-04-24 15:20

    One thing that is bothering me, if ownership of the roads are leased or transferred to SANRAL do the metro police still have the jurisdiction to enforce traffic laws on those roads? Those roads will in effect be private property.

      David - 2012-04-24 15:25

      Maybe they will charge the cops a fee to be allowed to set up speed traps? Make more money all around!! LOL

  • Herman - 2012-04-24 15:21

    All this is doing is getting the public to stand up for their rights, their rights to not be seen as a choque book with a heck of a lot of blank signed cheques. It will bring riots to the streets and it WILL bring a similar situation as the Arab Spring to SA. This could be a very heavy blow for the criminal and incompetent anc and for SA in a whole, but damn, we need to stand up against this communist dictatorship starting to evolve in SA.

  • Henry - 2012-04-24 15:23

    With due respect, this time I can't siding with Outa (

  • Gerhard - 2012-04-24 15:38

    All those of you who criticize and insult SANRAL and its legal team must print your comments for later reference...... ...... when the real facts are brought before the courts. Due to the work I do, I know that 1. There were no irregularities 2. The correct procedures were followed, including public notices (that fact that you did not see them does not mean they were not served) 3. The tenders were available for public perusal 4. The roads have been built, the contractors have been paid. The capital has to be recovered, by way of toll or other means, such as fuel levies or other taxes. Pay we will pay. 5. The benefit to the user is immense. The roads are world class. 6. In most countries in the world it is an accepted fact that the user pays for the road. We have become so opposed to everything that we oppose even the "good" things! Knowledge is power, but ignorance (exhibited in abundance here) can be embarrassing! When you have all the facts, I hope some of you will have the decency to retract your comments!

      Francois - 2012-04-24 15:53

      Good and well but there is one or two slight (understatement) constitutional law issues like giving police powers to SANRAL employees and the use of police officers to enforce civil contracts. The only problem for the opposing side (to E-toll) is the urgency. If the court finds that Outa & kie left the application to late then they are going to get a big hiding.

      Jan - 2012-04-24 16:00

      Being so thorough in your reply here, please also publish a detailed breakdown in the beneficiaries of these 'toll fees'. Please state what % goes to whom. Also state what amount would be paid back to road users to compensate for the loss of public roads taken over by SANRAL? I read my newspapers and listen to news on a daily basis. I lived next to the R21 in Centurion and haven't seen a notification of any sort anywhere. I believe that notifications must be published Nationally and in locally affected comunities in order to involve public participation. Please state in detail where and when these notifications were published and how they were worded.

      Thabo - 2012-04-24 16:02

      Point number 2 is true, but as far as the average south african is concerned they were never advised of such. The question from most people would be ..... Where were these notices placed? If these ' public notices' were made in the form of a news bulletin or as an advert, you would have a much more swift response from the public. Only legal minds and a few special people will how these things work. People are reacting because it is only in recent times that the news about tolling has been made 'public' i.e. On news bulletins where a majority will pick up info much faster.

      Gerhard - 2012-04-24 16:03

      @Francois, I admit that the execution of the details could have been done more elegantly, but that is not what everybody here is griping about. Everybody seems to miss the important point: The capital has been spent and will have to be recovered. We might argue about how it will be done, but the tax payer will pay for the roads.

      Gerhard - 2012-04-24 16:15

      @Jan, I am not part of either SANRAL, the government or the tolling company, so I cannot 'publish' the info you request. If you go to SANRAL's web site there might be somewhere where these issues are published, or possibly a place where you can request it.

      Jan - 2012-04-24 16:39

      Gerhard, thank you for your response. Your comment hinted at your superior insider knowledge. I apologise for coming to such conclusions.

      Gerhard - 2012-04-24 16:48

      @Jan, apology accepted. SANRAL has been a client of mine for close on 30 yrs, and although I was not involved in the Gauteng Toll Scheme IN ANY WAY, I know how SANRAL's systems work. I get involved in much smaller projects.

      Allen - 2012-04-24 16:54

      Noone is against paying a toll if it is reasonable. The tolls on this road are not reasonable, they are beyond extortion. If the motorist was asked to pay say 10c/Km, no problem at all. But paying R250 to drive to Pretoria and back is rediculous! After all, we the taxpayer have paid for these roads over and over again! Government fraud and corruption runs at R100Million per day!!! This is enough money to pay for the toll roads in 2 years without going to the tax payer yet again. So Gerhard, you most probably worked on the project and can "see the light", but charging tolls at the current rate is rediculous and these need to come way down if a settlement is going to be achieved. Both sides of the argument must feel a little agrieved to have a good deal. Currently it's all one sided.

      Pieter - 2012-04-24 17:53

      Hi Gerhard, Everyone of you points are correct....however, you are missing the point. You see, nobody wants the roads for free, nobody is not prepared to pay for the roads. The problem is...and maybe you can answer the question...why do we have to pay nearly 75 times more to collect the toll fees by using an inefficient way of toll collection than we would have to pay if it was paid through tax collection? I know the user must pay principle but 75 times more is a bit of an overkill, don't you think? It is a bit like buying a loaf of bread and then have to pay the price + 75% just to ring it up, or buying a car and paying the same price + 75% to get an invoice? Where do I get the 75 times? Glad you asked...The cost of the toll roads is about R 20 billion. The toll collection is R 6 billion rand for 8 years which gives you $ 15 billion over 20 years. As far as I know, the receiver of revenue collects money at 1% of the collected amount. They would have cost +- R 200 million against R 15 billion on e-tolling. Please tell me where I am wrong?

      antoinette.jordaan - 2012-04-25 12:50

      My gripe is that WE ALREADY PAY FOR ROAD MAINTENANCE, through tax on petrol and licensing etc. Where the hell did that money go? Now we are being penalized again, for someone else's incompetence! Apparently you believe we should just sit back, and be happy to be relieved of what ever little money we have left to live off? This is disgusting. I don't care if they followed protocol etc etc etc. This public is tired of paying for stuff that we don't see ANY returns on. Our tax money just disappears into this black hole.......and apparently, they keep on thinking that we have more to give! I'm tired of paying for things that could have been avoided IF THEY THOUGHT THEIR WAY THROUGH IT. Of course, they never have to do it..we'll just pass the cost on to the public. THey have the money! Of course!