News24

Tolling decision rational - Sanral lawyer

2012-04-26 12:38

Johannesburg - The decision to toll Gauteng's highways was based on a complex situation, and was completely rational, the North Gauteng High Court in Pretoria heard on Thursday.

"When the applicants - Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) - say it would cost R20bn over 20 years for the e-toll project, they have only looked at a piece of a puzzle and made an assessment," lawyer for the SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral), David Unterhalter, said.

When people used any public facility, like the roads, they always had to pay for them "one way or another".

Judge Bill Prinsloo was hearing responding arguments from Sanral against Outa's application for an urgent interdict delaying the start of tolling.

Attending Thursday's court proceedings was Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan.

Interdict

Unterhalter said the effect of the interdict would be felt for several years afterwards.

"The interdict is like asking a shop owner to close its doors for a few months. The damage is done in months, but will take years to rehabilitate. Just look at Greece."

He said the interdict would impact on Sanral's ability to pay its creditors, which would affect South Africa's credit rating.

Outa's lawyer Alistair Franklin said the interdict would not be "catastrophic" for Sanral.

"There would be no lost income if it [the e-toll system] is delayed for two to three months."

Franklin said if Sanral was at risk of defaulting on its debt, the Treasury would take over.

"They have also not explained why the delay from the interdict would have different consequences from the previous four postponements."

The court was expected to make a decision on the matter on Thursday, as tolling was scheduled to start on Monday.

Comments
  • Piet - 2012-04-26 12:46

    Yeah right buddy! Complex yet rational. WTF????

      brett.macdonald1 - 2012-04-26 12:58

      It's clear by all these sudden 'Dislikes' that SANRAL has got money to employ a whole lot of trolls to go and 'Dislike' all our comments, where the trend in every article on this matter has been completely anti-eTolling!

      Anthony - 2012-04-26 12:58

      Piet did u see how many thumbs down you got 309 wtf

      Kala - 2012-04-26 13:06

      @ Piet - SANRAL Eployees have been instructed to log on to NEWS 24 and thumbs down any comments made against SANRAL. Thats the only rational explanation.

      Reshan - 2012-04-26 13:07

      You "e-tax" is paying for the thumbs down, just more proof that your hard earned money is going to 'collection' rather than paying for the roads...

      James - 2012-04-26 13:07

      @brett.macdonald1 AGREED .THEY THINK THAT WE ARE IDIOTS LIKE THEM!! BUNCH OF SCAM ARTISTS!!

      Atholl - 2012-04-26 13:08

      surely a delay in the implementation is reasonable. reasonable vs rational ?? reasonable today .... rational tommorow

      Shirley - 2012-04-26 13:11

      There is something very fishy about all the thumbs down. There was only 1 comment and it alreafy had 200+ thumbs down!!!!!!!

      Jacobus - 2012-04-26 13:16

      On another posting of mine... WTF... the thombs up were like 130 and 1 thumbs down... suddenly there is like 175 thubs down within 20 minutes... I smell a rat.

      Reshan - 2012-04-26 13:19

      LOL... does SCUMRAL think they voting for president, the thumbs down aint changing what people think about you or the 'e-waste' system

      Jacobus - 2012-04-26 13:21

      F them... even starting with a voting defecit of 200 will not stop 42 000 000... so bring it on.

      jrheeder - 2012-04-26 13:26

      Wow, there must be immense pressure on SANRAL to resort to thumbing down all comments! Show's that they are cracking under the pressure.

      wesley.gouws - 2012-04-26 13:28

      Will ride the highway and will NOT buy a ETAG why should I pay twice SCREW YOU SANRAL!......

      Leon - 2012-04-26 13:29

      Piet the "complex situation" is called Jhonny Walker Blue! they are very Rational after a few bottles!

      camp.j - 2012-04-26 13:30

      F***ing cowards! Come on identify yourselves rent-a-mob!

      Sharon - 2012-04-26 13:31

      At least if Sanral employees are sitting on here giving thumbs down, then they are keeping busy! It is not as if they are overworked at the moment..

      roberta.keeling - 2012-04-26 13:33

      Amazing that there are so many thumbs down, but not one comment FOR Sanral or tolling. I think Kala made a good comment.

      camp.j - 2012-04-26 13:39

      Rumour has it that SCAMRAL have employed 1000 peeps to type out 70 letters of demand each day... apparently all the thumbs down were part of their aptitude tests

      Marion - 2012-04-26 13:46

      @Piet - You're going to make a News24 record for the most thumbs down!

      cyanideandhappiness - 2012-04-26 14:03

      Sanral using HAX! Should be banned from server...

      Press - 2012-04-26 14:05

      IF they get past the courts and operationalise their sordid little get rich schem - I am going to do the cheapest trip on the Highway every second day for 1 month that will be 15 court appearances for what like R50? This should put a nice little strai in the system if everyone does it.

      brett.macdonald1 - 2012-04-26 14:10

      Look at this previous News24 article about e-Tolls and the comments below it. You will see that there were hundreds of 'Likes' to my sentiments AGAINST e-Tolling vs just a handful of 'Dislikes'… Sanral, your trolls fool nobody! This is just like when you say that hundreds of thousands have registered, when in reality only your own employees have… See link: http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Sanral-E-tags-wont-be-compulsory-20120403

      Atholl - 2012-04-26 14:16

      There are two important factors regarding this matter ::: ONE : --- An appeal -- (if the toll is granted) of the Order --- immediately suspends (stops) the order --- .. TWO : --- E-toll should be paying the Road User --- :: for delays The construction of the road upgrade and the toll system - resulting in traffic (severe) delays to the road user --- opens up the door for each road user to claim damages due to time delays suffered by the users during construction. ... that's our (pirate's) view here from the Caribbean -- we've been watching through our telescopes ... you guys there in Gauteng ... pulling hair and bashing into each other like dodgem cars. ... on the sea we don't pay toll tax ... the shipping lines pay us ... in Gold !

      Tuco - 2012-04-26 14:21

      @Piet WTF?? scamral must have a big grudge against you buddy. so many thumbs down already? If i was you I'd watch my back. never know what lengths they are willing to go to defend their irrational toll gates

      Tuco - 2012-04-26 14:28

      @ All. Today its thumbing down anti etoll comments. please expect a wave of pro-SCAMRAL trolls to register on News24 from next week. Its gong to be a war next week on any eToll related article.

      Zing - 2012-04-26 15:31

      I think Clem called his buddies at Anglo to sit and dislike every e-toll topic. They don't have much else to do anyway.

      Jacqui - 2012-04-27 12:18

      Sanral employing a 'thumbs down' person?.

  • wbrummer1989 - 2012-04-26 12:46

    We will not Suport the E-Toll !!!!!!

      dewald.galjaard - 2012-04-26 13:15

      I find all the thumbs down interesting. The fact that none of these bums have anything to say even more so. Interesting times.

      mariuskowie - 2012-04-26 13:16

      I must admit I was in two minds regarding the e-tolling. Now I can see how SANRAL is trying to manipulate the public. Not once in all the time that I have been following the news on news24 did I see so many dislikes appear in such a short span of time. If they want to manipulate the figures, they need to use more tact. Bunch of manipulative thieves!!!!

      cyanideandhappiness - 2012-04-26 13:18

      Wow, these sudden spikes in dislikes are very very dodgy!

      camp.j - 2012-04-26 13:22

      Yup, this about confirms it, these tw@ts have a bunch of trolls giving us the thumbs down... LOSERS!

      Marion - 2012-04-26 13:25

      For every thumbs down you give, SANRAL, there are probably at least three million fingers raised skywards every time eToll/eTag mentioned. Clickety click, SANRAL trick. Enjoy 'cos you are a big joke.

      wbrummer1989 - 2012-04-26 13:51

      WoW what a bunch of losers suporting the E-TOLL for the thumbs down!!!

      Marion - 2012-04-26 14:06

      @wbrummer1989 - you're giving Piet a run for his money iro thumbs down. Wonder who'll win the THUMBS DOWN CHAMPION title.

  • rowan.maulson - 2012-04-26 12:48

    No you daft prat... its not rational, its bloody thievery. Some people are getting insanely rich off this scheme, while making the general population poorer... nothing more and nothing less. SANRAL needs to explain why the cost to construct the roads was so much higher than International Norms as well.

      carpejugulim - 2012-04-26 13:42

      Perhaps an explanation as to who's money was used to create this system and why it was used may be in order. Govt pension funds etc??? When people used any public facility, like the roads, they always had to pay for them "one way or another". Was Joe Public actually asked whether they would accept e-tolling or was it just assumed that Joe Public would just accept and cough up?

      Alf - 2012-04-27 11:12

      The answer is - LOTS OF DEEP POCKETS TO FILL! As for all the thumbs down, don't worry, it's only Nazir Alli and his gang playing the fool on their PC's (manually operated hi-tech, like SCUMRAL). Have these idiots thought about the consequences this whole debacle has on direct investment in South Africa? I had several calls from (mainly) Europe wanting information. they don't want to walk into a trap set by government to fleece them from the word go. Instead the look at alternatives. NEWSFLASH FOR GOVERNMENT: THAT IS NOT THE WAY TO CREATE JOBS!

  • Koos - 2012-04-26 12:48

    They should be made to put up road signs indicating alternate routes for people not to familiar with the areas.

      Vaughan - 2012-04-26 13:11

      The legislation that required alternate routes was removed a while back. Probably with this kind of tolling in mind.

      Nirosha - 2012-04-26 13:19

      We can't even sue, they made sure of that. Scamconartists.

      Zing - 2012-04-26 15:32

      Interesting how they can remov the legislation, where it was a major selling point on toll-roads in the beginning.

  • Kala - 2012-04-26 12:48

    It wouls be interesting to see how many litres of fuel get sold on a daily basis in South Africa. Multiply that by the taxes Government charge on fuel and then ask where is all that money going because it sure as hell is not pocket change.

      djmain1 - 2012-04-26 14:30

      http://www.outa.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Calculations-on-E-Tolling-vs-Fuel-Levy-Model-3.pdf

  • Koos - 2012-04-26 12:49

    Fuel levies are paying for it for the past 18 years already. That is the one way or another.

      Johnathon - 2012-04-26 23:43

      Hens have finally come home to roost for SANRAL & ANC hopefully. Arrogant an autocratic Government convinced it could simply legislate e-tolling into being, with punitive criminal action against defaulters. This has been the proudest moment I have ever felt as a SA citizen. For the first time the entire country : Black, Indian, Coloured, Chinese, White, have all stood together with a unified resolve, to tell this corrupt, incompetent, tax blowing Government, to finally go to hell. No more taxes you greedy bullies. If you just stopped pissing all public money into personal gratification and self enrichment, there will be far more than enough money, to address most of the countries social problems.

  • Piet - 2012-04-26 12:49

    When the applicants - Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) - say it would cost R20bn over 20 years for the e-toll project, they have only looked at a piece of a puzzle and made an assessment," lawyer for the SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral), David Unterhalter, said So he admits their is more pieces! And how much do they represent in rand value?

      djmain1 - 2012-04-26 14:33

      And if this is so complex that it's a puzzle, then SCAMRAL can't claim that we "should have known and objected earlier". Seems there is a lot about this scam that will still crawl out of the woodwork in due time.

  • Marion - 2012-04-26 12:50

    There was nothing rational about the decision to toll these roads.

      Chrono - 2012-04-26 13:06

      Exactly Marion becaue most of the money that is made will leave South Africa! There was most probably money under the table once again for the same guys who were involved in the weapons scandal because one of those companies is the main beneficiary of this tolling contract. How patriotic of our fatnecks.

      Nosiphom - 2012-04-26 13:32

      It was rational in that they made calculations that showed that some guys will be making a hell of a lot of money. It made business sense.But the most important person in this equation, the customer was never asked for suggestions on how to pay for the roads. It was also rational in the sense that every time the interest rate goes up, or the petrol price goes up, there are e-mails going around telling us to boycott certain brands of fuel, but nothing ever happens we just keep buying without even protesting. When they increase the cost of passports four fold or vehicle license fees by 50% we don't complain, therefore it was easy to conclude that we will comply. Therein lies the rationality. Sorry Sanral, we are fedup.

      Marion - 2012-04-26 13:49

      Good point Nosiphom. The rationale that said it was rational was based on the irrational assumption that we South Africans would be our normal apathetic selves. Or something along those lines.

      Jaco - 2012-04-26 14:03

      "The deal between Sanral and Kapsch of Austria, the e-tolling operating company is not with the corporate entity, but with Kapsch Sweden. Kapsch Sweden used to be SAAB Aerospace, a 50% shareholder in a company called SANIP. British Aerospace held the other 50%. SANIP is alleged to be the payment vehicle used by SAAB and BAE to pay the alleged bribes of around R100Million in the Arms Deal saga to ensure that the Gripen fighter was chosen. The names Hlongwane, Modise, ANC, Zuma, Shaik figure prominently in the list of alleged recipients. So why Kapsch Sweden, not the corporate entity? I leave it to your imagination. How much? According to the corporate structure used to implement e-tolling in SA, about 80c of each rand of profit can be repatriated to Austria via Sweden. Gauteng alone expects to generate about R350Million a month in toll fees. Assuming a very conservative 10% profit available to be repatriated, that means about R28Million a month to go overseas"

      Shane - 2012-04-26 14:42

      Because they are not paying their own way, we will most prob be paying on their behalf.

  • Jaded - 2012-04-26 12:50

    Attempting to rationalise their greed. SCAMRAL got greedy, that's all. There are other well-known alternatives that could have well negated the need for the government to spend billions putting up these Gantries ( ie; slightly increased tax on Petrol / increasing the yearly license fees on Motor Vehicles to name just two ). They dont just want to pay for the roads, they want a Cashcow that can be milked a hundred times over. And all they are going to accomplish at the end of the day is clogging up the back roads.

      Piet - 2012-04-26 12:52

      Yearly license fees increased by 26% last year....

      Press - 2012-04-26 13:11

      But more imporatantly elsewhere in the country urban higways operated by SANRAL are not tolled. Why should Gautengers pay and the rest of the country get the roads for free. If you want to argue only Gautengers benefit you need to also counter the argument that gautengers pay the same (and probably) more taxes per capita and the region contributes more to national wealth than any other.

      henk63 - 2012-04-28 08:22

      Press, this is just a pilot project. Once they forced this down our throats and we swallow, all major cities wll get e-tolls. After that, ALL the roads will be e-tolled. We shouldn't avoid these roads, we should just REFUSE TO PAY! Don't get the e-tag and don't pay! This is just another attempt to fleece Joe Public but they got caught. We should just resist, finish and klaar.

  • Paul - 2012-04-26 12:50

    GIVE THIS A THUMBS "DOWN" IF YOU WERE CONSULTED!!

      Koos - 2012-04-26 12:59

      I’m going to go out on a limb here and conclude that comprehension reading wasn’t the strangest suite for most South Africans here.

      Marion - 2012-04-26 13:29

      I think SANRAL employees can read...

      Koos - 2012-04-26 13:45

      You "think" Marion.... I NEED PROOF!

      Wes - 2012-04-26 14:07

      Paul said CONSULTED not INSULTED to the 13 thumbs down

      Marion - 2012-04-26 14:08

      @Koos - the proof is all the thumbs up on Paul's comment which obviously deserves a thumbs down.

      robbie.crouch - 2012-04-26 14:39

      Clever one Paul. ;-)

  • Noluntu - 2012-04-26 12:50

    Rational?!!! WTF

  • Bryan - 2012-04-26 12:50

    As a lawyer for SANRAL, obviously you are going to argue the fact in their favour as they are probably paying you millions as a retainer and with these millions, you would have no problem forking out a few hundred rands per month to use our pathetic roads. The problem is, Mr fancy pants attorney is this.., the 'Man in the street'cannot afford to be squeezed/raped/bled dry of anymore of his hard earned money to finance a scheme taht is going to line the pockets of 'Gravy train'Fatcats....!!!

  • Dylan - 2012-04-26 12:52

    It's rational to expect the people to pay for public facilities, but irrational to expect them to pay again for that which they have already paid.

  • Thomas Nokeri - 2012-04-26 12:53

    World War III is behind the corner

      Maria - 2012-04-26 13:06

      More like a civil war....... Pity.

      Piet - 2012-04-26 13:06

      and around the corner?

      Sheik - 2012-04-26 13:41

      ANC don't have a backbone to fight, the last time they were hiding in the bush.

      Ridwan - 2012-04-26 13:54

      around the corner you mean?

  • Kent - 2012-04-26 12:55

    "The decision to toll Gauteng's highways was based on a complex situation, and was completely rational" Complex situation = who gets what, kickbacks, for what reason? Completely rational: And then the minister of transport said "With hindsight it is not rational." So customer (SOMESCAM) and lawyer (UNTERHOSE)underpants are not in aggreement about the rationalsation.

      Steve - 2012-04-26 15:42

      The lies which will be purported as truth for the cost of a piece of Judas' Silver....(Paid to mislead the public from public funds) Not Unterhose SC's greatest moment!

  • Anthony - 2012-04-26 12:56

    hahahah you as doff as your boss...

  • Victor - 2012-04-26 12:58

    You are damn right. It is a puzzle !!!!!!!

  • Ashwin - 2012-04-26 12:59

    This is like starting a company without doing market research. A pyramid scheme that looks good on paper. Well-connected sources and resources to make it happen. The backing of a Government. Enforce to general public whether they want the product or not. In fact, sell to the public how the money spent is in their best interest and the fact that the mafia will be knocking on the door should the public not do what is actually good for them. Someone's knees will be capped and damned if it will be the initiator of the scheme. In fact the initiator will stand next to the knee capper and encourage more damage be done. After all, why should the initiator, scamral, be accountable if the scam did not sell as well as it was marketed.

  • Deon - 2012-04-26 13:03

    I see civil unrest that we last saw in the early 80's if this e-toll scam is not halted. Think of Winnie Mandela's famous line - "With our matches we'll liberate this country (from the ANC this time) Be warned!!!

  • Ashwin - 2012-04-26 13:03

    Public failure to pay for scamrals entrepreneurship would mean scamral and other scams in the pipeline will not be able to get money from the Wsetern imperialist. Too much is at stake. Pockets are waiting to be lined. New mansions and luxuries ordered. Scamral will use its allies to make sure that their product, a product that no one wants to buy will be bought.

  • Piet - 2012-04-26 13:05

    Thumbs down or up they still can go and play on the gantries!

      Marion - 2012-04-26 13:10

      It is actually hilarious how similar postings on earlier articles about eToll/eTag got virtually no thumbs down but now almost every post is being given many thumbs down. Seems like SANRAL not only wants to rip us off at the tolls, but could be ripping those who bought eTags off by employing people to sit on News24.

      shaficks - 2012-04-26 13:21

      Its a sign of desperation.

  • AdeleFHM - 2012-04-26 13:08

    They obviously don't give a damn what we the public think about this. I just hope we can stand together as a nation and fight till the end for our rights! Come on

  • Philip - 2012-04-26 13:08

    Half the fuel price and I may consider paying toll ... why is fuel going up again? The higher the fuel price the more they pull off the levy, where is that money? No e-Tag ... No Toll

  • dewald.galjaard - 2012-04-26 13:12

    Rational in who's eyes?

  • Chuck - 2012-04-26 13:12

    Does this okie want a rational PK up side the kop?

      Koos - 2012-04-26 13:15

      I'll make like I'm left for just that few seconds, you can have the right.

  • Nirosha - 2012-04-26 13:15

    They can go ahead we will never pay.

  • FerreiraGerald - 2012-04-26 13:15

    e-Toll does not work for me!

  • chiepner - 2012-04-26 13:17

    Complex? Like taxing us 3 x over for the same thing? That complex? Like Greece - wtf does Greece situation got to do with our toll roads!?! Fact - government was arrogant in just making these stupid choices that was given by incompetend corrupt staff and now we have to pay for your mistakes? Twits!

  • Achilles - 2012-04-26 13:18

    So now all of a sudden the credit rating is important yet when it was released by the Credit Agencies dear Mr Gordan dissed it. You didn't want to accept it Mr Gordan, that the guavaments finances are going down the tubes!

  • Arthur - 2012-04-26 13:18

    Yah right, what EVER. What you fail to mention is that it will cost 10 times more and that the profits will be 10 times less than the fuel levies. Typical scumbag lawyer, probably the type that protects criminals - oh wait, he is.

  • shaficks - 2012-04-26 13:19

    SANRAL, Pravin Ghordan and David Unterhalter can do a triple double flip pike at London 2012 if they want to.... I AM STILL NOT GETTING AN ETAG!!!!

      Sheik - 2012-04-26 13:50

      Okay Mr Gordhan, here's a deal, You prove there's was no corruption in this e-toll/Sanral debarkle and we'll pay. If we can prove or show that there were hands in the cookie Sanral jar when the whole ANC government must resign on mass. PS Are there any printers out there wishing to print new election posters urgently.

      shaficks - 2012-04-26 13:54

      Theres a better chance of Pravin running the 100m in 9.40sec than them proving no corruption took place

  • Felix - 2012-04-26 13:22

    Sanral is confusing the argument. It makes rational sense for the public to pay for those roads, or any other infrastructure project for that matter (Even OUTA support public funding for those roads). What OUTA is arguing is whether or not e-tolling is the most efficient method in doing so. Considering that majority of shareholders in Sanral are on government payroll, it would only be natural for the Treasury to bail out Sanral should it fail to meet its debts. And considering that SA never accumulated the amount of sovereign debt that Greece had, the comparison is nonsense and deserved to be treated with all possible contempt. But Sanral still doesn't get it. It's primarily not about money, but rather the fact that this tax is imposed by a government that is corrupt, incompetent and growing fat with the culture of accumulation and nepotism. They feed the masses with the cult of liberation while withholding the real thing. Until this is fixed, scrapping e tolling will only be curing the symptom, not the cause.

      Marion - 2012-04-26 13:33

      @Felix - to my knowledge the government is the only shareholder.

      Koos - 2012-04-26 13:49

      Sanral = Government. If government didn't invest to much pension money the situation would be much different. I'd say if Scumral wasn't the government, the government would have been "fighting for the people". Unfortunately the word “money” and “tenders” came up and government pie experts came-a-running with other people’s money.

      Marion - 2012-04-26 13:55

      I wonder who signed on the dotted line to authorize the use of government employee pension fund for this project? That person should be scrutinized by the Public Protector. Along with everyone else involved in anything to do with eTolls.

  • Nosiphom - 2012-04-26 13:22

    "Franklin said if Sanral was at risk of defaulting on its debt, the Treasury would take over." -also using taxpayer's money as it should happen when financing public infrastructure. "The decision to toll Gauteng's highways was based on a complex situation, and was completely rational," A rational decision is not necessarily a correct decisions Mr Unterhalter!!

      Marion - 2012-04-26 13:56

      It's a simple task to make things complex but a complex task to make things simple. Murphy.

  • cmathibedi - 2012-04-26 13:23

    Thats the problem you visit GREECE you find them doing their own thing,you come back and you think what you saw there could work for us.If it working for them is fine but dont think it will work for us,those are two different countries.

  • george.pito - 2012-04-26 13:24

    It was so rational why do they get so much resistance.

  • Judith - 2012-04-26 13:25

    Came back from Lyttelton yesterday and today - a whole kilometre of the right hand lane of the N1 south is missing having been scraped off. Good roads - pull the other one!

  • Herman - 2012-04-26 13:26

    We are the ones that has to pay for the thievery of the anc, screw you anc and scamral, screw you over and over. Thieving bastards!

  • dare.myburgh - 2012-04-26 13:28

    ANC rubbish go back to Zambia you are not welcome,block all entry's and exits make the toll roads white elephants ,let the ANC what we think of there rubbish

  • roberta.keeling - 2012-04-26 13:30

    "When people used any public facility, like the roads, they always had to pay for them "one way or another" says Mr. Unterhalter. I don't know how old he is, but it wasn't all THAT long ago that road maintenance was paid for out of the levy put on petrol, long before toll roads were ever thought of. It is a cash cow discovered by the present government which will toll more and more roads to fill the kitty that's being emptied through theft and corruption. Unterhalter (which means Entertainer in German) really tries to be a funny man.

  • Colin - 2012-04-26 13:31

    what credit rating? the bafoons in charge have already destroyed that.

  • Leon - 2012-04-26 13:32

    Friday 20 April 2012 SANRAL - From an Australian Newspaper on South Africa E-Tolls Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to Facebook "The deal between Sanral and Kapsch of Austria, the e-tolling operating company is not with the corporate entity, but with Kapsch Sweden. Kapsch Sweden used to be SAAB Aerospace, a 50% shareholder in a company called SANIP. British Aerospace held the other 50%. SANIP is alleged to be the payment vehicle used by SAAB and BAE to pay the alleged bribes of around R100Million in the Arms Deal saga to ensure that the Gripen fighter was chosen. The names Hlongwane, Modise, ANC, Zuma, Shaik figure prominently in the list of alleged recipients. So why Kapsch Sweden, not the corporate entity? I leave it to your imagination. How much? According to the corporate structure used to implement e-tolling in SA, about 80c of each rand of profit can be repatriated to Austria via Sweden. Gauteng alone expects to generate about R350Million a month in toll fees. Assuming a very conservative 10% profit available to be repatriated, that means about R28Million a month to go overseas"

      flysouth - 2012-04-28 08:22

      You have your facts right Leon - and interestingly Kapsch on their website boasts that this contract with SANRAL/ANC Govt (one and the same BTW) for Gauteng toll systems is the largest in the world! So far from looking at a well-proven, well-accepted and widely used open road toll-system, that statement tells us that there cannot be too many countries that have accepted the so-called 'benefits' of Kapsch open road toll systems! Also how can this be the largest such deal? SA has a small number of motor cars when compared with many other countries such as USA and European countries. In the US just ONE GM plant produces as many vehicles each day (no misprint) as are produced each month in SA! Perhaps they refer to the "largest deal" being the most lucrative and over-priced in terms of build cost and in terms of ongoing profits!

  • mnbain - 2012-04-26 13:32

    Those dislikes are linked to news24 users, it would be interesting if they had to analyse them for "voter fraud" because they are contrary to the general sentiment and unusual in volume and speed.

      Press - 2012-04-26 17:26

      Yes c'mon News24 - this is a public interest matter worthy of investigation. Could we please have a statement on the matter.

  • Sheik - 2012-04-26 13:35

    Look at Greece, what planet does this fool come from.Greece is not in trouble because their goverment had a Sanral equivalent that went belly up. Mr Unterhalter you should travel a bit more and you'll see that Sanral is not a country and cannot be compared to Greece.

  • gideon.rossouw - 2012-04-26 13:39

    News24 should investigate the surprising number of thumbs downs - looks like a scam to me!!!

      henk63 - 2012-04-28 08:40

      Yes it is totally out of proportion. This is a highly emotional issue with most posts against it, which are thumbed down. Those downthumbers would have made statemets supporting the tolls by now, but there is none. News24 has been hijacked!

  • Sean - 2012-04-26 13:40

    What is rational about making people pay several times over for the same thing. We pay a levy on fuel for road maintenence but the government uses the money for other things. Then they say we must pay again. How is that rational. It amounts to unjust taxation, which coincidentally is the cause of almost every major revolution in history. The only thing that would be rational in SA right now would be for us to boot the ANC out of power and string them all up from the nearest tree.

  • Rob - 2012-04-26 13:42

    Does anyone believe that anyone in government is able to deal with ANY complex situation in a rational manner? Well I don't! Many have commented on the suspicious thumbs down, totally against the trend and I have no doubt instigated by RATIONAL SANRAIL. Idiots, and they continue to treat ordinary people as if we are also idiots, and more to the point as if we are sheep....sorry, sheep may be cultural, so add goats, cows, snakes whatever!

  • brionyl.french - 2012-04-26 13:42

    who cares about SANRAIL? I dont.... they should have used money more wisely....we pay tax so why wasnt that money spent on infrastructure??? its not our problem our government has their fingers grabbing money left right and centre for themselves... down with e-tolling

  • Riad - 2012-04-26 13:49

    Question: How much of Joe Public’s hard earned cash goes into Governments Ministerial Hand Books privileges. Suggestion: Tear out 80% of the pages from this book and the saving from those torn out pages will then be non-claimable for those now non exiting privilege that's funded by Joe Public’s. I’m sure would the saving’s made via this means, there wouldn't be a problem for Government to make good with the loan hence still keeping the countries credit rating in the international arena the same. I am sure the president and all his Ministerial and down the line member can survive by still serving Joe Public with the salary you earn for being stupid at your best. So were do I apply for the Minister of Finance post?

  • Steve - 2012-04-26 13:50

    "Rational" obviously has a totally different meaning to this legal idiot than to any person with a rudimentary command of the English language!: He needs to refer to one of the more globally respected dictionaries, not the meaning used by his "under-creative" socially irresponsible fat cat brain. Which law school gave this oke a degree?

  • Porshemak - 2012-04-26 13:51

    Dear cable thiefs is time to give back to the community. only when you can just steal all the cable of e-tolling. ragerd worried motorist lol!!!!! miss J