News24

Traditional leaders oppose gay rights

2012-05-06 10:05

Johannesburg - The National House of Traditional Leaders wants to remove a clause from the Constitution which protects people on the grounds of sexual orientation, City Press reported on Sunday.

The organisation was responding to an annual invitation by Parliament's constitutional review committee to submit suggestions for Constitutional amendments.

The clause, in section nine of the Constitution, reads: "The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth.

ANC MP Patekile Holomisa, who chairs the constitutional review committee, said sexual orientation was a difficult subject.

"The last time this issue was discussed was about same-sex marriages. Most of the people in the caucus were opposed to it, but then Luthuli House and the leadership instructed us to vote for it," he was quoted as saying.

Holomisa heads the Congress of Traditional Leaders.

The ANC caucus would debate whether the matter should be discussed in Parliament, the weekly reported.

Comments
  • goyougoodthing - 2012-05-06 10:11

    This is disgusting.

      koos.vandermerwe.92 - 2012-05-06 10:35

      It seems that the mentally ill has no right either. They can be raped and it is fine.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-05-06 10:41

      @koos, you now sounding like a broken record on that "mentally ill rape" thing of yours. Do you have something more interesting to bring for debate or you just dream about the "rape" everyday?

      goyougoodthing - 2012-05-06 10:48

      Thumbs down - are you people serious? Please defend your position in the public and explain why your sexual persuasion has anything to do with anyone - and if you quote scripture that's not good enough. If you are judging others then YOU are the one with the deep seated problem.

      Benn - 2012-05-06 11:09

      I have something in common with traditional leaders!!

      Warren - 2012-05-06 11:15

      Why isn't the question of whether "Traditional Leaders" are useful, required or constitutional ever discussed? Get rid of these useless self-important trough-feeders I reckon

      Gieljam - 2012-05-06 11:21

      What the gays? if yes I agree

      goyougoodthing - 2012-05-06 11:49

      @Meme - I can only deduce that their hatred of homosexuals is born from fear and ignorance. Like most of the born-agains I know are reformed addicts and low lifes, the traditional Christian is most probably gender confused. No doubt this comes from the highly sexist texts which they read - god is a man, jesus was a man, moses et al. The only figures of any prominence are two Mary's one slut and one a virgin... shows what they thought of women...

      Morgaen - 2012-05-06 12:41

      Ah MemeMan, you confirmed my suspicions now, come out the closet once and for all, you poof

      Anthony - 2012-05-06 12:43

      but it,s ok to rape babies to get rid of aids. what a bunch of fu$kups haha

      leorene.minnaar - 2012-05-06 16:16

      @goyougoofthing I am always amazed when it comes to homosexuality that people are strong defenders there of and accuse others of not being "broad minded". Here is the issue at hand..the bible is quite clear on the issue. God does not allow for the behaviour. No matter what we think personally about the issue, whether we are broad minded or narrow minded, the bible is plain. This is how God says it, whether we like it or not. God will have His way and it is His way, that we have to impliment in our lives. I look at the gay rights activistes when they Demonstrate in the streets, I always wonder to myself, if you want to be accepted by society, why is it that your dress code (and you beleieve your right to expose your Genitals before all) earns respect and or a right to a hearing? Your rebeliousness and disrepect is demontrated before all

      Mark - 2012-05-06 16:35

      leorene, You are amazed? I am perplexed. By the sheer, ignorant arrogance of this God said it claim. He also said it is fine to have slaves, as long as they are from neighboring countries. Do you agree with that?

      leorene.minnaar - 2012-05-06 16:55

      @mark.beeld Yes I do, but when you start throwing stones..lets look at who he was speaking to and in what context. Incidenly the words slaves and servants apply also to those who work for someone .. you are that persons servant/slave

      Benn - 2012-05-06 17:25

      Meme- Sorry, I see religious folk as paganists,atheists(own gods). Christians are not religious. Their God, Jesus Christ hated religion. He spoke out against it and He was crucified by the religious Pharisees.

      Mark - 2012-05-06 17:56

      leorene, And how many times have you held a barbeque on Sunday? Bought the newspaper? You should be stoned for that buddy. Your argument lacks common sense, and to put it bluntly, it lacks balls. You ingeneously selected the sins that does not affect you, and proclaim yourself to judge those sinners. That's weak. Talking about context. Do you even know the context of the verse you try to impress on me (being gay).

      carpejugulim - 2012-05-06 17:59

      Some of the most rabidly homophobic people I have ever met have closet homosexual fantasies. A person is not defined by their sexual orientation and nobody has any right to impose their "fears" of sexual preference on anybody

      leorene.minnaar - 2012-05-06 20:50

      @markbeeld it is the context of thou shalt not... If the truth be told, as I mentioned before..all that matters is "what does God say on this issue?" it matters not what we think or feel. If God is the Creator of the universe, Then as the Creator He sets the rules. It is our responibilty to abide by them. It matters not what excuses or reasons that we come up with.. our puny reasoning is no match for Him, as he has set out the laws and we have transgressed aginst those laws and we are all punishable (as He says ..all are under sin) We can jump up and down, wave our fists, scream, swear and be as angry and emotional as we want. The point is He makes the rules! In the OT there are 613 commandments and we are told if you break one you are guilty of breaking all. Incidently they are fair and just. The application for the Believer is 1 John 1: 9 and for the non Believer it is Romans 10:13. This is where a person will find forgiveness and peace with God over any issue we face in our personal lives and for that matter national lives.

      Marius - 2012-05-06 21:13

      leorene, your god also does not allow divorce, but then again it seems your god seems to share the same prejudice as you do. Funny that is, that this god of yours seems to think so much like you do.

      Sunshine - 2012-05-07 03:37

      leorene, You seem to be under the impression that homosexuality is a choice. It's not, your sexual orientation is something you're born with so I don't see why a Creator would create a person one way, and then punish them for being themselves.

      jody.beggs - 2012-05-07 06:41

      @tdtrent wow I'm always amazed by the crap that's in the Bible. That really justifies being righteous to a point of murder ! Damn the man.

      atholl.hay - 2012-05-07 09:46

      Gay people are born into and are part of every society in the world. We are all ages, all races, all faiths. We are doctors and teachers, farmers and bankers, soldiers and athletes. And whether you know it or not or whether you acknowledge it, we are your family, your friends and your neighbours. Being gay is not a Western invention. It is a human reality.

      Arthur - 2012-05-07 11:24

      Agree totally goyougoodthing, disgusting indeed. They probably want to ban gay rights because it's too tempting for them to come out of the closet haha.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 12:27

      I repeat. Homosexuality is not a choice. That is like saying black people chose to be born black. Did you heterosexuals wake up one day and decide to be straight? I don't think so.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 12:31

      Lovely how these religious people change the context of what was written in that fairytale book to suit their own personal beliefs. A slave is a slave. How easy for them to sugar-coat it and say that a slave only meant servant. Effing hypocrites. IF your god exists (highly doubtful), then he would hate you all.

      Mark - 2012-05-07 12:56

      leorene, In the age the Old Testament was written, men was authorative, to the point that emasculating a man in any form was an offence. Sodom & Gomorrha was destroyed because the men were raped by other men - thus emasculating them. Did you know that? Do you seriously intend to keep to all 613 laws & regulations in the OT. That's a joke, and hypocritical.

  • Charles Dumbwin - 2012-05-06 10:13

    This is as controversial as land ownership in South Africa.

      Gieljam - 2012-05-06 11:25

      There is a difference between soil and sludge

      Mark - 2012-05-06 18:07

      Gieljam, As there is a difference between Erectus and Sapiens.

      Mark - 2012-05-07 13:27

      LOL @Mememan

  • Grace - 2012-05-06 10:13

    How can you oppose gay rights? Our president has numerous wives - isn't it all about 'human rights'? Geez in SA you can rape, steal and murder and you entitled to 'rights'. Double standards again! I'd much rather have honest, hard working, decent gay people walking our streets than the scum let out to celebrate FREEDOM day!

      Grace - 2012-05-06 10:21

      And just for the record I'm not gay but this IS blatant discrimination!

      goyougoodthing - 2012-05-06 10:24

      Neither am I but my many many friends are now apparently not equal anymore? That this is even up for debate makes a mockery of our 'constitution'. How dare they judge people like this.

      Grace - 2012-05-06 10:36

      True goyougoodthing... These 'traditional leaders' will be shocked at how many of their own offspring are gay!

      Martin - 2012-05-07 08:29

      Discrimination is everywhere, eg im covered in tattoos, the majority of people i come across dont even look at me, others choose to make fun(which is entertaining sometimes) but many think im a thug or gangster, truth be told im a loner, never been in any form of gang, no criminal record, love art, especially on a living canvas, nothing wrong at all except a love and tolerance of pain and pictures. There is a definite separation out there, it seems people just need the slightest difference to use for an excuse to try be better than the next person, its an insecure world we live in

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 12:45

      <3 Grace :)

  • Sean - 2012-05-06 10:15

    But it`s ok to have 10 wives ??? Eish evolution is a b@tch , it left many behind !

      siyadyosiba - 2012-05-06 10:37

      Polygamy vs Sexual Orientation. Do they really mix?

      Rob - 2012-05-06 10:52

      Spot on Shaun....Stupid buggers !Still Living in the stone age.

      koos.vandermerwe.92 - 2012-05-06 10:52

      It is ok to breed more than what you can feed. That thieving ancESTOR that died of Aids the other day had 19 kids. They still think they need to breed like rabbits to survive.

      Nyiks11 - 2012-05-07 10:09

      The reason people like Zuma take on more wives is because since the dawn of democracy most SA men have since turned gay ,leaving the women with fewer choices. Instead of castigating the polygamists we should be thanking them for taking the extra load and responsibilities

      Mark - 2012-05-07 13:26

      Mgayi, Funny. 'Turned' gay ?! Most men ?! Please cite your reference or stop flaunting your ignorance.

  • michael.a.devilliers - 2012-05-06 10:16

    Of all the issues, unemployment, crime, this is one that makes it for constitutional reforms. Some people have some serious deep seated issues.

  • Michele - 2012-05-06 10:21

    Its about time these traditional leaders came out of the closet.

  • Smile - 2012-05-06 10:22

    WHAT? I hope the UN, EU, and the US are listening! South Africa's democracy is being ruined. Where are the anti-apartheid protesters now? The ANC is just as bad as the NP. If gay rights is tacken out of the constitution... tourism will drop, less direct foreign investment, and the ANC will be responisible for the human rights abuses(AND THE REST OF THE WORLD WILL KNOW IT. GO TO HELL ANC...

      siyadyosiba - 2012-05-06 10:31

      You are totally skewed. The Traditional Leaders are NOT ANC. Please control your hatred of ANC and uphold sane judgement.

      Smile - 2012-05-06 10:41

      Here are some of the names of "traditional scum." Chairperson: Kgosi PP Maubane Deputy Chairperson: Kgoshigadi MRM Mothapo CEO / Secretary: Dr W M Makgalancheche I CAN TELL YOU NOW THESE RET&RDS ARE ALSO ANC CONDOM COMRADES!

      Chumscrubber1 - 2012-05-06 10:45

      True, siyadyosiba - but you don't hear much opposition from the ANC, they are not prepared to step on toe's of anyone with a bit of power - it is a bit cowardly of them, a lot of people suffer due to their cowardice (or is it more a case of doing anything to cling to power?)

      siyadyosiba - 2012-05-06 10:54

      @Smile, I won't respond to the insulting part (condom) of your comment as it is really childish of you. Even if these guys are ANC members they do not represent ANC when they are in other orgaizations. @Chum, the ANC has taken a stand on this matter. They still have to decide whether to have this discussed in parliament or not. What else are they, ANC, suppose to do or say?

      goyougoodthing - 2012-05-06 11:13

      They are supposed to say that this is unconstitutional and not up for debate. They are supposed to say that the role of traditional leaders is a direct insult to the constitution and has no place in a 21st century democracy. They are supposed to hold up the notion and spirit of democracy, including equal rights and transparency. On EVERY SINGLE LEVEL the ANC fails at this and the poor, black women and the previously disadvantaged (gays included) are disadvantaged again and again by a male-dominated, bigoted and corrupt network of cronies and gangsters. Does that answer you question?

      siyadyosiba - 2012-05-06 11:26

      @goyougoodthing, I understand your comment and where you coming from. I however also understand that as a ruling party you don't prejudge issues based on face value deductions especially those that involve legislation. The stand that the ANC has taken is the best one. They have to discuss this issue before making a public verdict on it. Remember, once you make a public pronouncement, if it causes damage, it’s not easy to roll it back.

      goyougoodthing - 2012-05-06 11:45

      Sure Siya, I would then like to suggest, at the next gathering, that the ruling party make a ruling on the unconstitutional practice of having a Traditional Leadership at all. Sexist at best, it is a practice that is unconstitutional.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-05-06 11:55

      @yougoyougoodthing, I personally do not have a problem with having traditional leadership. It was meant to organise rural societies and ensure that our traditional values from which "ubuntu" is derived are upheld for a better nation. It’s unfortunate that the traditional leaders have allowed themselves to be tangled in the political web thus diluting their primary mandate and purpose. Now they are losing the plot. I however still believe it is a right structure to have in our society.

      goyougoodthing - 2012-05-06 11:56

      Fine Siya, I don't. It is sexist and self-serving. But each can believe what they want. Enjoy your Sunday.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-05-06 12:12

      @goodthing. u r 100% right. same to you, thanks

      Jacqui - 2012-05-06 12:24

      Siyadyosiba. Your advice about sane judgment is very good. Now how about you starting to uphold that as well.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 12:48

      They are not ANC but they support them... so what is the difference? Using their positions to spread hatred and bigotry.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 12:51

      @siya: They are supposed to defend the constitution they helped create, and take every single citizen of this country's rights in high regard. There are MANY gay people who support the ANC... let's hope they do not vote for the bigot a**holes in 2014.

  • Sidney Gilroy - 2012-05-06 10:23

    I say blame the straights! They're the ones who keep on having gay babies!

      Grace - 2012-05-06 10:27

      Lol... Good point!

      Ally - 2012-05-07 10:29

      First prize for best comment on the subject!!

  • Mornay - 2012-05-06 10:28

    Can someone give these leaders a little help.... , i think the closet is locked from the outside and they cant get out!!!!

  • Atholl - 2012-05-06 10:30

    Every President, Judge, Politician (MP), Premier, Cabinet Minister etc swears an oath to protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The Same Constitution .. that put them into their position .. that gives these souls their right to call themselves President, Judge, MP, Minister etc Has the mechanism to remove one or all when they threaten the rights in the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights is not a game.

  • Thabo - 2012-05-06 10:31

    What harm are they causing ? To who ? When ? How ? Ps guys, there are more burning issues to concentrate on.

      Chumscrubber1 - 2012-05-06 10:47

      This is what I can't understand, they're probably the most harmless people on the planet, yet people are scared of them. At the cost of dealing with real issues!

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 12:53

      Ah it's lovely to see decent, intelligent people comment on here. Thanks guys :)

  • Faizie - 2012-05-06 10:34

    Are we really surprised. Muffin the Mule is not a capital offence. Yet

  • AnthonyfromAfrica - 2012-05-06 10:34

    Issues like this , should be discussed in parliament, so that the public can see the true colours of their MP's. But, also what should be discussed in parliament, that if the National House of Traditional Leaders, does not respect the SA Constitution, if they than, should have any further relevance in SA politics !!!

  • siyadyosiba - 2012-05-06 10:36

    This is not something to be debated. Stripping the gays their rights is anti-democratic. I am straight and I believe gays are no less than human beings.

  • rowan.maulson - 2012-05-06 10:37

    And why are we even allowing this "house of traditional leaders" to even open their mouths... bunch of bloody idiots that they are.

      Chumscrubber1 - 2012-05-06 10:49

      I'd love to know the average level of education amongst these guys, compared to the younger people living in their communities.

      isaac.nkwaliyenkosi - 2012-05-07 10:17

      Don't call them idiots for the mistake they have made because they are also human beings like you, anyone can make a mistake including you, they are raising their concern because they still believe in their traditional ways, so they need to be educated about this system of democratic gvn. like many other people in this country. I am straight but I don't support what they are doing because only God can judge people on things like this, so gays must be given full constitutional rights.........fish n claar.

      Nyiks11 - 2012-05-07 10:20

      @Rowan Improve your argument and not your insults @Chum why do you still bother questioning people's level of education in a country that is led by a president with little or no formal education ?

  • Duzi - 2012-05-06 10:39

    There they go! Big on "talk", less on "walk". ... fighting against discrimination only where it suits you. I say let the general public vote on the issue. Those guys responsible for the constitution are not to be trusted

  • Jacques - 2012-05-06 10:41

    'What two consenting adults do in private is not a matter of law'- Thabo Mbeki. Yes, yes, I know, he isn't exactly the most eloquent source to quote, but that is a good one! Why can't these 'traditional leaders' not do something about the fact that their tribes are contributing to rampant joblessness, teenage pregnancies, poor education and general squalor? FFS

  • Chumscrubber1 - 2012-05-06 10:41

    Same traditional leaders oppose giving millions of people living in "their" area's title deed to their land. They deprive the bulk of black people living in this country instant financial wealth. Very positive bunch, these "traditional leaders".

  • Nicole - 2012-05-06 10:41

    I wonder what would happen if one of these 'people' had a gay kid. Would they deny him/her their happiness? Is there something in the expensive bottled water that they're giving these guys?\r\nSo let me get this 'straight'... I can steal, murder and rape anyone and get off with R1000 bail and a slap on the wrist but I cannot express my feelings and share happiness with someone of the same sex as me? That makes a lot of sense. They should be put down.

      Sunshine - 2012-05-07 04:13

      Diana exactly what are you basing that ridiculously bigoted statement on? Is this some idea you've dreamt up out of the ignorance of your life? Gay people ARE born as they are, like everyone is. That's why it's 'sexual orientation', not 'sexual preference'. How do you explain all the gay people who had very similar and normal upbringings alongside their straight siblings? If gay people are likely to suffer abuse and misunderstanding, it's from views such as yours. Idiot.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 12:57

      F**k you Diana I was never abused or mistreated/neglected. I grew up with loving parents. Your point of view is seriously screwed up. When did you decide to be straight? When your aunt molested you? See, how pathetic your argument is?

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 12:58

      I have 2 brothers, one older, one younger than me. They are both straight. Where is your logic? So far up your rotting c*nt?

      Mark - 2012-05-07 13:32

      Dana, Ignorant idoit. Have a look at Chromosomes 7,8, and 10 in homosexuals. Then compare them to the same chromosomes in heterosexuals. Convinced yet? NOt? Okay, have a look at the hypothalami of homosexuals, then compare to heterosexuals. Pay specific attention to size, as homosexaul hypothalami are larger. Now tell me, how the f**k do I choose to increase the size of my hypothalamus?

  • Thapelo - 2012-05-06 10:44

    nt surprisingly gay modern vs tradition primitive.

  • ziphok1 - 2012-05-06 10:46

    I think Traditional leaders must focuse more on developing thier community. What other people r doing I think its non of anyone business. Not that I care by the way.

  • arne.verhoef - 2012-05-06 10:51

    How ridiculous. Welcome to the third world

      bobby.mykonos - 2012-05-07 11:13

      Ummm this is not a third world thing. Go read what the religious leaders have to say in the USA. They are even more homophobic and bigoted

  • Deana - 2012-05-06 10:54

    Traditional\Leaders\ should rather focus on opposing the rights of murderers and rapists! What a load of hogwash! No wonder SA is in the state it's in. Wake up!!!

  • shaunlwc - 2012-05-06 10:58

    Even one of the Constitutional Court judges is gay. Are they going to fire him because of that? While these "leaders" are busy trying to get clauses removed from the Constitution, why dont we try to remove the rights to life and dignity as well because they obviously dont mean s#!t in South Africa.

  • Peter Jacobs - 2012-05-06 10:59

    As a gay man, who pays his tax and is law abiding, i am angry to hear this. If this law gets passed, i will not pay taxes as i dont have the same rights as everyone else.

      Smile - 2012-05-06 11:21

      pkheswa - Why dont you are your traditional scum go back to Zimbabawe... People like you are respected there... MAybe you can be Magabes cleaing lady? You will see what acondom feels like!

      robqb - 2012-05-06 11:30

      @pkeswa. With your attitude I wish you were gay!

      siyadyosiba - 2012-05-06 11:32

      @pkheswa, I respect your views or apparent hatred towards gays but you do not have a right to judge anyone. Being straight doesn't, by default, make you any better person.

      Abrie - 2012-05-06 11:36

      Peter, please forgive the homophobians.

      John - 2012-05-06 11:43

      @PKHESWA Sis on you. You are the one that is disgusting and should be asahmed of yourself. Pig!

      goyougoodthing - 2012-05-06 11:54

      Sad comment from a little man who obviously has issues. As a former disadvantaged with no rights this fool should know better.

      Gieljam - 2012-05-06 20:20

      Sis man this is no place to advertise some decent people comment here.

  • gen.azzie - 2012-05-06 11:03

    Typical South African small minded idiots! They have no right to take away our right to happiness.. Rather concentrate on the murders, rapists and theives taking control of our beautiful country.

  • Marc - 2012-05-06 11:07

    I DARE them to mess with that!

  • Ted - 2012-05-06 11:07

    Luthuli House and the leadership....

  • leko.dada1 - 2012-05-06 11:12

    We aint all religious ,not bound ruled by christians/tribal morals-principles n Values.SA constitution protects all of us...Even traditional leaders have a right to oppose anything un-traditional. Gay is a trend so its time for them to respect too

      Mark - 2012-05-06 17:59

      leko, A trend that predates mankind? Funny.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 13:01

      A trend? I bet my fist smashing into your face would be a trend. Moron

  • Grace - 2012-05-06 11:13

    I think I missed the 'election' that made 'traditional leaders' god... (Men in glass houses)

  • John - 2012-05-06 11:16

    enough said - http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1wy0uq9qx1qhsujro8_250.jpg

  • Gieljam - 2012-05-06 11:18

    With my last stance I really noted how many pro "otherwise" poiple we really have in our society so all I am going to say is " BRAVO" and yes I did check my spelling

  • Jean - 2012-05-06 11:27

    Negative Negative =????

  • christopher.peppas - 2012-05-06 11:33

    I find it interesting that "birth" is the last thing that gets mentioned in the said clause. Pretty much covers a lot in the list, the rest are circumstances of life of which being homosexual simply is not. One more step to civil war - Now the ANC stands to lose and alienate another bunch of its members. Interesting times.... One can judge a society on how it treats its poets and homosexuals !!!

  • Thalente - 2012-05-06 11:34

    People people relax, these traditional leaders are harmless(its like leaving your wife with a gay guy)

      elewies - 2012-05-06 13:04

      Wahahahahaha very funny!

      christopher.peppas - 2012-05-06 18:36

      That is so funny, but the thing is it isn't really harmless trying to tinker with the constitution. That is a sacred cow (excuse pun).

  • Darryn - 2012-05-06 11:36

    There is a larger issue at stake here - if the constitution is changed based on the opinions of some, to the detriment of others, we are no longer on the path set when the struggle for freedom was won. Gay rights are an easy target, and if they fall others will follow. It is extremely important that this does not happen. Apathy now because you are not gay and your rights are not affected may lead to your rights being taken away later. Act: http://www.change.org/petitions/advocate-s-p-holomisa-chair-person-of-constitutional-review-comitee-protect-the-constitution-of-south-africa-as-it-is?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition&utm_term=share_page_mobile

      Garth - 2012-05-06 12:41

      @ waterloo.mathis: you are an ignorant fool! There is so much more at stake here than your feeble mind can even begin to comprehend! I propose that the state should be able to discriminate against people like YOU just because you're THAT dumb!!

      Darryn - 2012-05-06 12:51

      @waterloo you fail to understand the larger picture. If the rights of one group can be taken away the same can happen to another. What if the righty to practice your religion freely was next on the list? These are the words of a German pastor in 1945 detailing his response to the persecution of various groups by the Nazis First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. Think carefully about the big picture before making comments through your limited filters...

      Mark - 2012-05-06 16:38

      waterloo, Watch this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

  • tvanrayner1 - 2012-05-06 11:36

    Another 1 of Mugabe's laws.

  • Darryn - 2012-05-06 11:38

    http://blogs.news24.com/DrBrack/call-to-action-protect-our-rights-from-threats-to-our-wonderful-constitution

  • Darryn - 2012-05-06 11:38

    Nelson Mandela: "Never, never and never again shall it be that this beautiful land will again experience the oppression of one by another”"

      siyadyosiba - 2012-05-06 11:45

      100% in support of that statement

      Mark - 2012-05-06 19:09

      Darryn, Excellent.

      bradNOTbradley - 2012-05-06 22:04

      never before has this legendary quote been SO majorly appropriate! nice one bud!

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 13:06

      Totally!!!

  • Will - 2012-05-06 11:38

    South africans - black , white , gay , straight - the time has come for all of us to stand together. One step at a time , our constitution is begin threatened. First it was the secrecy bill , and now this .... Where exactly are we heading !!!?

      Norman - 2012-05-06 12:21

      Zimbabwe

      Garth - 2012-05-06 12:34

      A big black hole!

  • Werner - 2012-05-06 11:59

    Some idiot lying in bed at night with a wife that doesn't want any nookie projecting his sexual frustration on a community who are proud to openly celebrate an innate part of us all - human sexuality. We have fought this battle once... Bring on the war!

      Mark - 2012-05-06 19:25

      Amen to that.

  • Mark - 2012-05-06 12:19

    Die Pienk Rand is goeg genoeg vir die Regering so dat hulle kan steel en teel maar ons regte moet weg .Ek dink dis tyd dat hulle moet uit!

  • Badpuppy77 - 2012-05-06 12:25

    Oh for F*CK Sake!. First the Rooi Gevaar then the Swart Gevaar now the Pienk gevaar. The ANC sounding more and more like the old Nationalist Party more and more each day. Get off your entitled ar*es and, like other South Africans, try and improve the lot of others instead of finding trivial things to debate.

  • Jacqui - 2012-05-06 12:26

    Maybe the traditional leaders should spend their time empowering their communities and leave other matters alone.

      Darryn - 2012-05-06 12:54

      @mohau and what agenda is this? As a gay man my agenda centers around being able to pay my bond, working hard at my job which I am grateful for and realize is a privilege in today's world, doing my best to be supportive of my family and generally trying to do what is right in this world. How is this significantly different than anyone else and how does this undermine what you define as community?

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 13:11

      Yes mohau, because gay people have nothing better to do with their time than devise some agenda to destroy families and the lives of bigot straight people. You are indeed a loser. POWER TO THE GAYS!!!!

  • Peter - 2012-05-06 12:46

    And the ANC wants to give "traditional leaders" MORE power!

  • mandla.ngubane - 2012-05-06 12:48

    I thought we were done discussing dis issue. All hv rights.

  • Bear - 2012-05-06 12:48

    This is simply the ANC attempting to hold onto the rural votes... this will end in them loosing power and the DA making this the best country in the world. ^^

      tnmunyai - 2012-05-06 14:29

      You can say what ever . DA wil never rule South Africa.

      stefan.vanderspuy - 2012-05-07 13:05

      Never say "never". It is a lo-o-n-n-g time.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 13:44

      @tnmunyai: are you psychic? Fortune teller maybe? Yeah right, just keep quiet about things you cannot foresee. It shouldn't be about ANC or DA, black or white. It should be about which party best represents the country and actually does a decent job at running this country, with dignity and respect.

      Pulverturm - 2012-05-07 15:28

      You're right Tnmunyai, the DA will never "rule" SA, but I bet they would "Serve" SA very well!

  • Garth - 2012-05-06 12:53

    Traditional leaders should all practice what they do best.. Sit around a fire all day discussing their cattle! Leave the real world decisions to those with the insight to tackle them!

      mzobanzi - 2012-05-06 13:06

      I'm short of saying F u for the blatant backward dare I say it racist generalisation. You enjoy such freedom of expression because a traditional leader Dr Nelson Mandela convinced us to reconcile and think modernly nothwithstanding that all that is modern might not be good for us procreative humans

      Darryn - 2012-05-06 13:12

      @mzobanzi remember that the NP based the rationalization for their policies on narrow, abstract, incorrect logic. Do you want to live in a South Africa that does the same, just to a different group of people (although gay people too were targeted by the NP under the same system which targeted you and your family and communities). Do you want those very same policies which you and your forefathers fought to abolish to return to South Africa? Judging by your comment and those of many of your peers it would seem that you do. Frightening to say the least.

      George - 2012-05-06 14:01

      The white people would be wise to look at aspect of traditional culture and see if any make sense. Their quick dispensation of communal justice to the obviously quilty has greatly benefited the township residents. Our farmers could study this method of vigilance for their mutual welfare as a community.

      Garth - 2012-05-06 14:08

      @mzobanz: you proved my point! Now take all your anger and indignation that you are feeling because I have knocked your way of life and imagine that you are a gay person whose very way of life is under attack..

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 13:45

      And an IQ > 100 to go with insight.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 13:46

      @mzobani: was he talking about Mandela? No He was referring to the lazy ass traditionals (present day) who just sit around and take, never giving back to their communities.

  • Gena Pretorius - 2012-05-06 13:06

    What have we as gay people ever do to the traditional leaders, we don't interfere or forcefully influence any individual or group. Why should you judge us if we aren't judging anybody, all we want is to let us be, as we do respect everybody else. We are also just human, just like you.

      George - 2012-05-06 13:57

      You obviously haven't seen the so called 'gay parades' around the world that stick into everyone's face. Is that warranted. No wonder some heterosexual people see it as very offensive bordering on the bizarre.

      Mark - 2012-05-06 18:03

      George, Really? And the millions of straight orgies fed to us on every billboard, television network, and radio on a daily basis? Heterosexuality strikes me as bizarre. But I deal with it, and keep it mostly to myself.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-07 13:49

      @bigotGEORGE: we will continue to have our Pride Parades, as long as LBGTI individuals are oppressed and treated as lesser than. The sooner you realise we aren't going anywhere, the better. Gay is the way

      Mark - 2012-05-07 13:58

      Wesley, Agreed, and I want to take it one step further. We will be more in your face, more protesting, and more bizarre until we are recognised as equals. We are not going anywhere, in fact we are just arriving.

  • Luis - 2012-05-06 13:22

    The opinions of the traditional leaders are exactly the same as that of my 4 dogs..