News24

Vavi worries about Lonmin domino effect

2012-09-19 22:16

Johannesburg - The Marikana wage deal set a dangerous precedent, the Congress of SA Trade Unions (Cosatu) general secretary Zwelinzima Vavi said on Wednesday.

"If those workers forced the hand of the company in that fashion through an unprotected strike, what stops Driefontein in doing the same," Vavi asked delegates at Cosatu's national congress in Midrand, Johannesburg.

Earlier on Wednesday Vavi had to leave the congress to deal with a strike at Gold Fields Driefontein mine in Carletonville where 15 000 workers have been on an illegal strike for the past 10 days.

Leaders of the National Union of Mineworkers (NUM) accompanied him.

On his return from the mine Vavi said the mineworkers were demanding a salary of R12 500. This was the same demand made by workers at Lonmin's Platinum mine in Marikana, North West.

On Tuesday Lonmin workers accepted a final offer of a 22% increase giving some workers R11 000 a month.

Vavi warned that other workers would think that they too could get substantial increases by going on illegal strikes.

"We are not saying that workers do not deserve their money, but if we are not careful this may mean an end of the central bargaining system in the country.

"Workers will just embark on wildcat strikes and steam ahead and force us to follow them."

He called for the congress to come up with a radical commitment to putting workers interests first.

He said the Driefontein workers were having problems with their NUM branch leaders. "[However] they all remain loyal members of NUM."

The workers said they would not abandon the union just because of their problems with the branch leaders.

Vavi said the workers were demanding that the leaders be dismissed and would not listen to argument that according to Cosatu's constitution there were processes to follow.

The NUM would hold a special national executive committee meeting on Wednesday night to discuss the issue.

Comments
  • lownabester - 2012-09-19 22:22

    Nice one to tak, you are the big boss of the biggest Trade Union. You started all this many moons ago.

      lsfreak - 2012-09-19 22:28

      This is what happens when the workers stand up for what they perceive to be owed.. Had to happen @ some stage :/

      Chaapo - 2012-09-19 23:02

      Oh celebrate but it will be short-lived. Just watch this space and you will see increased mechanization and job losses.

      glen.e.huysamer - 2012-09-19 23:24

      @ Siya we must ask ourselves did they fail to bargain up 10% or did they conspire to fail at a 10% settlement. It took the workers first time out six weeks to start getting this discrepancy sorted out and put on the right track, it is still below where it is suppose to be, but at least the workers have stood up and did it, despite the ANC/Casatu/NUM alliance fat cats. The workers of this nation are awakening.

      husaberg.twostroke - 2012-09-20 00:27

      This is the beggining of a lot of trouble in South-Africa. If these miners get away with it like they are others will follow and at the end of the day mines will go under cause it wont be profitable to mine in Suth-africa. And so more people will be out of a job.

      arthur.hugh - 2012-09-20 00:48

      Too many people, too few jobs. Much emphasis on materialism and too little on living. You can't keep the poor happy when you flash Audi adverts in front of them, they're going to get angry and then some.

      mattewis.kat - 2012-09-20 07:14

      Yeah, the ANC and their trade union pals have created the monster. They can now sleep with it! I'm actually surprised that Vavi had the mental faculties to interpolate this outcome to see what is hanging above the proverbial fan! That's right, Vavi. It's not "if", but "when"! My guess is probably "sooner" than even you think!

  • iwillemse - 2012-09-19 22:27

    who does nt expect this, no one needs this statement 4rm u, u r jst bored ,

  • Martin522 - 2012-09-19 22:29

    Shouldn't this have been a concern when they started all of this??

      christelle.james.7 - 2012-09-19 22:37

      What he is saying is actually an echo of what many of us have been saying over the past couple of weeks. But....hulle het nou 'n lekker lat vir hul eie g@tte gepluk

  • glen.e.huysamer - 2012-09-19 22:31

    Vavi worries more about how he is going to keep his job, as it is clear, NUM and Casatu are not necessary anymore, the workers seem to be getting the job done better by themselves. Vavi---He called for the congress to come up with a radical commitment to putting workers interests first. So then it is true, Casatu never ever had workers interest as a priority. They don't even have a plan to put workers interest first, this they will only look for when they meet on Wednesday... Whhhaa hhhaaaaa hhaaaa what a freaking side show joke, and this is the ANC Alliance partner, can't actually tell which bunch are the funniest. Glad to see Malema has got Vavi and the Casatu cronies running, his got the police off their fat behinds and the army marching for a change...... ANC still waddles around performing lip service and the communists?........well they not even worth mentioning,.....if they weren't in the alliance they would be living in shacks, like the miners do.

      glen.e.huysamer - 2012-09-21 11:16

      Ryan At the end of the day you may or not have studied I do not really care, your friend seems impressed though. Your concern for Lonmin over that of a workers earnings, this is strange. This attitude lies at the bottom of the mining crises, and labour problems in SA in general. The very materials and resources that have gone into making (just the computer that is in front of you) is denied to the children of the guy that goes down the shaft up to 2kilometers down. This is the problem with studied economists these days, unlike the guy down the shaft, breaking new ground, your type regurgitates old school stuff, studied up after the facts, which were written by teachers who studied the lives of pioneering entrepreneurs who actually lived the text book. So while you may or may not have a background in finance and or economics, you will probably find that if you always think within the box that is where you will remain. I am not a studied up economist, but one thing I am sure of is that the present structures and profits in South African mining serves very few in South Africa. A mine for profit? It's purpose is to extract commodities, it will eventually die, the profit lies in the sale of the commodities. Which can take place ten years from now, at ten times the cost of mining the extract The life of a mine is limited this is a given, so forgive me when I punt our country's economy (money in peoples pockets) over short term 'profits which are actually expenses.

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-21 12:55

      I have no vested interest in Lonmin mate. firstly, I think those wages are pretty good. crappy job, but miles above minimum wage. secondly, it is a free market economy, and wages are set by supply and demand. having said that, like i said, we do still have minimum wage legislation. we have a glut of unemployment in this country, almost 40% (when you include those that have given up looking for work), hence the excess supply. part of the problem is our labor laws (which try to protect employees but actually end up creating more unemployment ceteris paribus). the World Economic Forum rates our labor laws second worst in the world of the 150 countries they track. our labor laws are cited as a big impediment to investment and thus employment. if you are worried about workers and what they earn start educating yourself as to the real reasons. your issue with Lonmin is misguided. besides, they pay a fair bit more than other mining companies. go find out what Goldfields pays, ARM, DRD, Northam and you will see its not the same. you will find companies that pay quite a lot less in mining sector than Lonmin. thirdly, if you don't like your job, or if you feel you are underpaid, what do you do ???? you go look for alternative employment at a different employer right ?????? now don't say "ah but they won't find work elsewhere" because jobs are scarce. dont make that Lonmin's problem !!!!

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-21 13:03

      look mate, its simple. you've actually got no idea. youre almost as bad as these guys just demanding higher wages willy nilly. after Lonmin the Anglo American Platinum guys were like "oh yea they might be getting a lot more bucks, we gonna try get more to. but lets strike and intimidate and ask for R 16000." SIXTEEN THOUSAND MATE. heaven forbid these mines start doing well because then they will be demanding north of R 20 000. for unskilled work. this is the real world mate.

      glen.e.huysamer - 2012-09-23 16:57

      I would rather prefer that you not get into a personal vibe on an open forum, I think that it is in actaul fact against the rules, besides it is rude. You do however pride your self with your degree and this seems to be your stage on which to attempt to look down upon others, your eight year hands on career......this is all it is.....a career....a job, like the masses we talk about. Your argument is such that, because I am studied, because I have a well paid job, deserving of status and meaning I get to say more than anybody because my knowledge I have paid for, earned it and therefore deserve a 'tittle' that allows me to proclaim the right to override any and all basis for counter argument. Well guess what there are many like you, degreed, and careered up, working nine to five, dime to the dozen all over the show, and look the reality is the economy remains unchanged, year in and year out. Why? It might be due to the fact that you actually believe the cr*p you are taught, forgetting that it was based on history, and that the true 'economist' of today, who will be mentioned in the next decade, to career guys like you, they will 9/10 not be University Graduates like you, these are the Zukerbergs, the Jobs and their likes who wizened up to the fact that the knowledge you so aptly claim as your all knowing platform is in actual old news. The fact is your graduation, your claim to fame, does not equate success. Wise up, you still young enough to get it right.

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-24 01:58

      no mate, I'm saying you shouldn't argue with someone about something they know much more about. kinda like I wouldnt go argue with a scientist about something scientific. even though i know a fair bit about science. maybe you should reconsider that how you view things isn't correct. because this Lonmin issue has got lots of intricate detail. all of a sudden everyone seems to have an opinion about it. opinions based on thin air and garbage. look mate, it would be easy for me to spout the same stuff as you and the rock drillers are. I really don't care. its not something that effects me either way in the real world. but simply as a discussion I entertain it and give my views. and hopefully cause those people to realize (even if they dont understand) that maybe they are wrong or misguided. so that they don't pollute the minds of others who may be impressionable

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-24 02:03

      and its funny having someone who hasnt studied economics or finance proclaim it to be useless crap. considering that you don't know anything about it I would tend to IGNORE that opinion. sorry mate, what I say is fact and its how it works in the real world.

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-24 11:56

      so tell me what you think they should be earning and how exactly you come to that conclusion. i have to hear this.

      glen.e.huysamer - 2012-09-24 15:18

      @ Ryan I would like to see it in line with the factors seen in the 2 links below. The inclusion of staff, as partners, shareholders, hands on stakeholders. A shared and open responsibility by the people who actually do the work, into which investors plow their hard earn money when betting on the life of a mine. I would say that the people risking their life, for family and investors are paid enough to contribute to paying provisional taxes themselves. I have no straight answers on actual amounts, my financial equations and strategy would be based on shared risk = shared profits from the lowest task member & up. Similar to CEO bonuses, however this would not just entail profit margins, but overall growth. Inclusive and holistic financial management strategies instead of exclusive traditional scenarios, that leaves the majority involved in a company outside the value of the company, on the contary people involved (employed) by the company will actually be adding value. So when you ask me how much I think the workers should be paid, my answer will probably annoy you even more, because it would be a 'share' of the company without the financial risk, plus their salary, negotiable from onset, increases calculated annually via percentages. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sustainable-business/share-ownership-transforms-lives-kumba-employees http://www.miningweekly.com/print-version/workers-awash-with-cash-as-kumba-iron-ores-employee-ownership-scheme-shoots-the-lights-out-2011-12-09

      glen.e.huysamer - 2012-09-24 15:25

      @ Ryan I would like to see it in line with the factors seen in the 2 links below. The inclusion of staff, as partners, shareholders, hands on stakeholders. A shared and open responsibility by the people who actually do the work, into which investors plow their hard earn money when betting on the life of a mine. I would say that the people risking their life, for family and investors are paid enough to contribute to paying provisional taxes themselves. I have no straight answers on actual amounts, my financial equations and strategy would be based on shared risk = shared profits from the lowest task member & up. Similar to CEO bonuses, however this would not just entail profit margins, but overall growth. Inclusive and holistic financial management strategies instead of exclusive traditional scenarios, that leaves the majority involved in a company outside the value of the company, on the contary people involved (employed) by the company will actually be adding value. So when you ask me how much I think the workers should be paid, my answer will probably annoy you even more, because it would be a 'share' of the company without the financial risk, plus their salary, negotiable from onset, increases calculated annually via percentages. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sustainable-business/share-ownership-transforms-lives-kumba-employees http://www.miningweekly.com/print-version/workers-awash-with-cash-as-kumba-iron-ores-employee-ownership-scheme-shoots-the-lights-out-2011-12-09

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-24 17:24

      no come mate, you seem so sure that the miners are grossly underpaid, so give me an exact figure of what they should be earning and explain how you get there. make sure you cover everything. on a little side note, investors have made between 0% return and a capital loss of 80% in the last 5 years. but don't let that concern you mate. so are you saying that every company should give their employee shares for free ? and how many shares ? in every industry, not just mining. lol

  • sharon.erwin.96 - 2012-09-19 22:32

    Foreign investors are watching these developments with great interest. Watch them pull out one by one, and then see if Jacob can still create the 5 000 000 jobs he promised the people of SA. http://tonynews.com/disinvesting-in-south-africa/ http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2012/09/18/analysis-south-africa-s-dithering-strike-response-spooks-investors

      glen.e.huysamer - 2012-09-19 22:45

      OOhhh please, this story is so old news, investors will start a war before they pull out of South Africa. Like they did for Angolan oil, and diamonds from Sierra Leone. Get with it, if there is money to be made there will be investment, all these strikes are to investors is a "Black Swan" with Casatu/Num being slowly crushed there is greater interest for investors into South Africa. As for investors being 'spooked' ....... anything and everything 'spooks' investors.....regardless. There is huge sums of money to be made in South Africa for many years to come, but it will not be done totally at our citizens expense anymore.... If investors want to invest, they must invest in the people of South Africa as well. ZUMA has promised nothing, he is a liar, from start to finish, ....how can a liar make a promise?

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-20 01:13

      Glen you are simply wrong .. this kind of stuff and political instability HURTS foreign direct investment into south africa. it doesn not mean there will be no investment, it simply means that there would be less than there would have been. now let me ask you a question. seems like you think the workers at Lonmin were grossly underpaid. how do you come to that conclusion ? secondly, do you think Lonmin is making great profits ?

      joe.smit.549 - 2012-09-20 01:54

      Maybe it's only the Labour Broker who has lost out! Wasn't he getting paid R11000.00pm already, and passIng on R4000.00pm? I may have misunderstood.

      glen.e.huysamer - 2012-09-20 08:46

      Hi Ryan In the case of Lonmin it seems like the only one who was really making any kind of profit was old Cyril and his politically connected cronies, who put very little into the mines, but seem to get huge profits out of the mines, so much so it could be in categorized as 'fleecing' While many people believe the old story that to have investment we need to sell ourselves short, this has been taught to us for decades and yet the status quo has never changed, the majority of South African's are still poor, the mining system for the most part an economic treadmill for the majority of it's workers which perpetuates the same old same old living conditions, despair and poverty. As much as everybody spooks themselves by the old rhetoric, claiming the rights of investors before the people of South Africa it is clear that it is not working. It is not business as usual, the time for shortcuts, quick profits, massive underpaid workforces, and insider manipulation aching to the obvious 'fleecing' of South Africa's resources, miss management and political corruption is coming to an end. Like it or not, this is happening and those mines that have prepared themselves for this are doing exceptionally well, with workers been paid properly, including profit shares. South Africa's greatest stumbling block for investors is the ANC/Casatu alliance, who have put in place a system that steals from both workers and investors. S.A. will do better if it put it's citizens first, period.

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-20 12:46

      Hi Glen ... here are the facts ... forget about Cyril, this has almost nothing to do with him. 1) Lonmin and other platinum miners are making pathetic returns for the last few years. and mate, returns are not simply a profit figure like saying they made 200 million rand. do me a favor and analyse Lonmin's financial metrics and let me know what you think of it. here's a couple of pointers. P/E, ROE, ROC, cost of capital, D:E. then tell me what profit you think Lonmin will do this year and for the next couple of years and how that will change the aformentioned metrics. if you can do that then i will take what you say seriously. otherwise you're like everyone else that talks without knowing.

      glen.e.huysamer - 2012-09-20 17:42

      Hello Ryan I just want to say this, as I am not here to argue the obvious, if Lonmin was not making money, then they should not be digging. The mine is scrambling to get as much out as fast as possible, with as little social input as possible. The structure and management is designed with total disregard for social responsibility. I firstly would like to see these workers able to afford to pay taxes, build and or buy their own homes, instead of becoming wards of the state with my tax contributions further down the road. It is not in how one does business, but rather in the way business should be done. There is no need for speed, when the longer resources stay in the ground the more valuable they become. There is no need to retrench, when slitting shifts can result in greater productivity, healthier workforce. Lonmin is losing not because there is not enough platinum, it is losing because of bad management, bad business practices and strategies. Lonmin has lost because there is to much focus on figures and profit and not enough consideration to what is fundamentally and of greatest importance to any business and that is people relationships. It is on par to blood diamonds and sweat shops for top brand sports goods it treats the poor as nothing but second class, in Lonmins case their workers are outsourced, the workers themselves therefore become tools for profit, under contractual agreements which in it's very nature is sinful and pushes up labour costs.

      daniel.malan3 - 2012-09-20 19:36

      Ryan if I'm correct you have studied or are studying economics, or have a background in it?

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-21 02:13

      yes Daniel, degree in finance and economics. how come ? Glen, you obviously don't know the first thing about Lonmin's financial situation, nor about its business. and secondly, simply making a profit is NOT what business is about. it is always RELATIVE to many different elements such as the amount of assets or equity in the business and the market capitalization of the business. without knowing those other things, saying that Lonmin made "such and such an amount of profit" means almost nothing. but incidentally, Lonmin will not even make a profit this year. it will make a loss. and the loss will only be compounded by the workers further demands of higher wages. we are talking a loss of hundreds of millions. and yet youre screaming give the workers more !!!! lunacy. and mate, they were earning about 10k a month before this latest 22% raise. do you have any idea what the average salary in south africa is ??????

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-21 12:59

      I have no vested interest in Lonmin mate. firstly, I think those wages are pretty good. crappy job, but miles above minimum wage. secondly, it is a free market economy, and wages are set by supply and demand. having said that, like i said, we do still have minimum wage legislation. we have a glut of unemployment in this country, almost 40% (when you include those that have given up looking for work), hence the excess supply. part of the problem is our labor laws (which try to protect employees but actually end up creating more unemployment ceteris paribus). the World Economic Forum rates our labor laws second worst in the world of the 150 countries they track. our labor laws are cited as a big impediment to investment and thus employment. if you are worried about workers and what they earn start educating yourself as to the real reasons. your issue with Lonmin is misguided. besides, they pay a fair bit more than other mining companies. go find out what Goldfields pays, ARM, DRD, Northam and you will see its not the same. you will find companies that pay quite a lot less in mining sector than Lonmin. thirdly, if you don't like your job, or if you feel you are underpaid, what do you do ???? you go look for alternative employment at a different employer right ?????? now don't say "ah but they won't find work elsewhere" because jobs are scarce. dont make that Lonmin's problem !!!!

      glen.e.huysamer - 2012-09-21 14:04

      Well there you are right Ryan, I am not making Lonmin's problem my problem. As for the wages being miles above minimum wage, you are also right, except that minimum wage should never actually be a starting point in affirming the value of a job. When we talk about a free economy, in SA there are far more employees than employers so the power of a free economy in retrospect belongs to the majority. One of the reasons we have a glut of unemployment in this country can also be found in the fact that so many have been paid so little for so long, that the net result is increased reliance of the employed and unemployed on fewer persons capable of being employers. The truth of the matter is that SA, has very little intellectual property, very little manufacturing, exports are a bomber, and the only thing that should be giving SA a hand up, has become SA's curse. The country reels over, every year due to labour disputes that need not in actual fact happen so that a collective bargaining process can take place, lead by Casatu this in actual fact is equal to 'modern slave brokers selling armies of slaves' so that the bean counters can project their number crunching intellect (on investors who 9/10 times have actually earned their money the pioneering entrepreneurial way) with sliding scales and graphs, projecting profits based on business and management models taught to them used thirty years ago, and which actually belong in the dustbin. People steer economies not numbers!

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-22 12:59

      Glen since when did anyone make any connection between minimum wages and the "affirmation of the value of the job" ???? so dont look for affirmation there. your whole second paragraph is claptrap. mate you've obviously never studied finance nor economics. did you get a degree at all ?? if so what ?? what do you do for a living ? I studied this stuff and I've worked in this field for 8 years. intimately. hands on. simply even mentioning low wages as one of the cause of unemployment is rediculous. rediculous reasoning too. its the opposite. higher wages/wage demands (ceteris paribus) cause higher unemployment than would be otherwise. loads of reasons for unemployment, but forget about low wages being one of them mate. minimum wages (the lowest of low wages but that are actually ARTIFICIALLY higher than workers may have been paid in the absence of that legislation) make unemployment worse. so let me translate that for you. if wages could have been even lower, unemployment would improve. most economists agree that while minimum wages benefit those with jobs in terms of higher pay, this must be measured against losses in benefits, training, or losses borne by others that find it more difficult to find jobs or suffer loss of employment.

      glen.e.huysamer - 2012-09-23 16:28

      Well Ryan it is so true, I have not studied up economics or what ever else you claim to have studied, As for minimum wages we must not forget why the concept was born in the first place, to protect the desperate from the likes of you. I am not against minimum wage, I can see you are, because if you are an economist or financial advisor, lets just even say that you are a chartered accountant, you would use the minimum wage as a starting point when applying projections, both for capital investment and then also for profit stats. That is what you are, a bean counter....... I don't try and ridicule you on what you say, part of it is true, other parts of it is text book arguments, what you have done for eight years does not impress me, and what I do for a living is my business, I am however happy to see that you are phased by what I have to say, it has obviously angered you and rattled your cage. If you are an economist or whatever, your thought is geared to your numbers and figures, and it is with this you pride yourself and measure your success. Economists like you is what has caused this dire depression in which the world finds itself, almost always running up behind people who naturally make money, let us understand the phrase 'make money' which is probably beyond your understanding which is geared to believing that making money is investing money (hopefully with you/or the likes of you) who if you are good will earn commission from other peoples hard work. Claptrap or not

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-24 01:41

      actually mate, im not a business employer, so employees need no protecting for the "likes of me". secondly, I pay my garden boy and maid very well, probably more than you do mate. but that's only because I can afford to and am a generous person. I would not expect someone else to pay what I do. but business does not work that way. that doesn't mean business should intentionally screw over your employees. you can try screw over your employees, but often it will bite you. so not a good idea. thirdly, I am kind of ambivalent about minimum wages. sure it ensures some employees get higher wages than they may have otherwise, but consensus is that it does tend to make unemployment in a country worse than it would have been. simple as that. but this is debate is not about minimum wages. enough said about that. fourthly, I'm not going to talk about the causes of the current world problems (that started a couple years agao) because that is unrelated to the current discussion and would take far too much of my time to go off on that tangent now. lastly, what you mean "making money is investing money" ???? maybe I should put it a bit more eloquently ... investing capital requires a return on that investment. and for that simple fact there is no dispute from anyone. and the greater the return, the greater the appeal of the investment (given similar risk parameters). also duh

      glen.e.huysamer - 2012-09-24 02:39

      @ Ryan Duh dude I have come to the conclusion that your not as bright as you present yourself to be. Bragging about paying your gardner and maid, jeeeszzz that is way low, you really have a problem. I don't pay my gardener or maid anything, never have, never will. In all my businesses, whom ever is involved earns a share. The more I earn the more my partners share equally. It is a straight up deal, before anybody even enters whatever business I am doing. But you being the learned economists, is this not how investment actually works, does it not? In simple terms if I invest my money with you, you earn a 'share' on any increase to my portfolio (if you are a broker, or financial advisor) So while you are all so studied up, with your degree in 'economics and finance' and mention the screwing over of employees, this is what Lonmin and the mining sector have done for decades and now it is coming back to bite them. I do however disagree with your statement that employees need not concern themselves when hired by the LIKES of you. I believe they do, especially you, who feel you are a generous person that pays well. First thing I have to ask you is, by whose standard do you claim to be a good employer. Yours, the government, or have you actually asked your maid your gardener what they think? You seem to have your perspective all lined up, In the matter of the workers who did what they had to so that their employer will listen. Your concern was for the investor who has money?

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-24 12:01

      so tell me what you think they should be earning and how exactly you come to that conclusion. i have to hear this.

      glen.e.huysamer - 2012-09-25 13:24

      @ Ryan You ask me this question yet you claim to be the economist, what then is your figure? You still seem to consider that money investors have more rights than the people that actually invest their life into the mine. Lets face it you are to schooled to break the mould, and you seem not to understand the turnaround that actually took place in the mines that change the management strategies. You refuse to look at the results achieved. I believe that South African minerals are a national resource and as such the industry should change and follow the Khumba structures. Khumba management works(a few years ago people laughed it off as a disaster in the making) but now it makes Lonmin and other mines whose management have stuck to 'old ways' look like a bunch of fools. They are years behind, and their mines are what they are, as you point out, bearing little fruit. I would advocate this management strategy to any and every company, as the proof is in the pudding, look around South Africa, pick out some of the largest and most valuable companies, and check on their staff profit sharing some even having partnership strategy with suppliers and contractors. If you live in Cape Town I would direct you to one in Newlands where you can go on a tour and check out how it all works, at the same time you can have a cool beer of your choice. It was one of the first companies to start implementing staff participation in SA. It has not had one strike since 1990, and is a no1 SA export.

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-25 21:57

      mate all these companies give shares in their companies to BEE okes (and they all have to comply with exactly the same legislation). so get over your obsession with Kumba. the reason the BEE guys have done well in Kumba is that its firstly a very well managed company and secondly iron ore has appreciated in price far more than any other commodity in the last few years ... which means more profits for iron ore companies which usually means better share price performance which means the BEE guys do better. so yea, all these mining companies have given shares away in line with the legislation. now you didnt answer earlier, should those shares be given away free or at some cost ? as for what these miners should be earning at Lonmin, they should not have gotten a raise period. you don't substantially increase your cost base when your revenues are going backwards and your company's future is in jeopardy. these guys should actually be taking pay cuts. that way jobs can be spared from retrenchment too. for an investor its been a disaster. costs need to be cut. simple. and wages are a massive cost in mining. so very different to what you're saying "give them 22% this year and next year another substantial increase and then more and more until its so obvious that they're all earning more than university graduates." and in fact they already are in many cases. bizarre ?????

      ryan.a.smith.3958 - 2012-09-25 22:30

      and because you are hellbent on giving more and more to these miners, that means less for all the rest of the people of South Africa. i'm sure you can work out why

  • ivan.goodman.77 - 2012-09-19 22:49

    If an illegal strike gets u an increase,why do u need the unions to plan a legal strike and still not get what u want.?

  • ntsunyane.frederick - 2012-09-19 23:08

    The answer is simple mr Vavi,never allow unions especially cosatu affiliates to negotiate on your behalf because they sleep with bosses.Civil servants,watchout!!

      lionel.defrontignac - 2012-09-20 05:15

      Exactly; that ruinous public service strike a few years back was proof that COSATU is the ANC's puppy dog - the workers lost big time.

  • mohalevincentshai.shai - 2012-09-19 23:34

    Its time to reward miners.Employers must be the one to say workers demand are unreasonable not union representatives.Aluta continua!!!

  • Cedric - 2012-09-19 23:40

    i think vavi is just bitter that AMCU did a splinded job for miners than cosatu affiliates could do and ANC watchout people are slowly snaping out of it.

  • jimmy.m.gp - 2012-09-20 00:29

    The problem with the Union is that they sumtimes hold meetings with the Employer without letting their fellow members knows abt it that's were the problem is

  • blip.noodlum - 2012-09-20 00:35

    Vavi's seen his flabby Cosatu flagship, NUM, totally gazumped by Amcu and their hardcore slimline tactics. The thing that scares him is to see hundreds of thousands of workers ditch their Cosatu unions and sign up with unions who are NOT in a cosy mutual-admiration club with the ruling regime.

      gustav.louw.12 - 2012-09-20 03:56

      For once i agree with Blip. Cosatu is in a very bad place now. They are between the devil and the deep blue see... On the one hand they cant deny the workers at Lonmin there increase but on the other hand is it a dangerous presedent for cosatu. In fact it can destroy cosatu....

  • manie.vanwyk.12 - 2012-09-20 00:54

    AND THEY DRINK,,,DRINK ,,, I WONT MORE DRINGKING MONEY,,,

  • prince.aneke - 2012-09-20 01:00

    de problem is dat, de union

  • ben.lantz1 - 2012-09-20 03:29

    Give Malema and Vavi each a mine , BEE (black elite entitlement)problem solved

  • ndumiso.gagayi - 2012-09-20 03:49

    Vavi you should focus on training your shopstewards on how to negotiate instead of settling for whatever the employer is offering. If Lonnim can actually afford a 22% increase then how did you not figure this out?or you dont have access to the financial perfomance of the copmany and this is the case then we should fight for honesty and transparency from the employers

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-09-20 08:18

      I don't know if Lonmin can afford it, but if so I would like the top structure and maybe owners to be chased away. I think they are now going to suck the mine dry as long as the price stay high. Slack on safety and new development. Gaining as much as they can and when the price drop close or scale down. They will than use this excuse as reason. I think the reason for this increase was to see how much they can get back from their investment. I hope I am wrong and that the workers can continue to reap these new benefits. One must just remember. The higher one pays an employee the more the expected performance is with a smaller workforce. Companies also tend to hire and fire easier because the money is luring other and if not performing to their expectation, workers will be replaced.

  • Asdiedamwalbars - 2012-09-20 04:51

    Why the mentioning of a domino effect if it is not a mean of reason of the intention. You know very well what is the intention and who is the culprits who want to bring real harm to the South African economy. Can't they not accept the fact that nationalisation will not work in a country where corruption enrich the greedy and make the poor even poorer. Not wrong to fight for better salaries for those who really work the hardest.. Do it fair and fight the real problem.. like corruption.

  • lionel.defrontignac - 2012-09-20 05:12

    Vavi is beginning to sound like a Capitalist; maybe he and the COSATU gang are worried about the performance of their shares in the mining sector, which means they will have to downgrade to red label. It's quite obvious that COSATU is not interested in the worker, and more interested in politics, and it's about time that the workers realised this.

  • Gerald Jordaan - 2012-09-20 05:19

    The microchip has replaced a number of white collar workers..similarly mechanisation is going to replace these wildcat strikers !! Microchips and machines don't strike take leave or stay away for whatever !!

  • piet.boerie - 2012-09-20 05:20

    Workers dont need Cosatu anymore because you are dont represent them. Yes you are not needed any more; sell out right wing market capitalist posing as a union for workers. Poeple see through the Allaince with its fake Do it for the Poor.

  • tshivhombelaf - 2012-09-20 05:52

    Not only miners but those in public service with qualifications may follow suit.

  • fezile.somraba - 2012-09-20 05:57

    it's really interesting 2 c vavi nw trying 2 convince workers that he cares abt them.where were u mr vavi when marikana mine workers were being gunned down by mr zuma.do u think the workers will believe u.u hv betrayed them after u hv been re-elected,u said ppl must not remove the current leadership of the anc @ the same time u r saying they hv failed 2 deliver as per the polokwana resolutions.the moment u say ppl mustn't remove mr zuma from power,i want 2 warn u.u r digging u own political grave.zuma has failed he must go,num has failed 2 gv a direction in the mining sector there is no need 4 them 2 exist.mr viva the ppl of S.A. love u,u stil hv a chance 2 jump the ship and join the forces of change as there r those who stl believe that thats where u rightfully belong.operation asijiki

  • cya.ngoma - 2012-09-20 06:16

    The mine has done a good thing here to end this mess. The law must also play its part to investigate the killers of those ten people and bring them to court, They must not enjoy this 22%.

  • j1c17u5s - 2012-09-20 06:18

    Are all those workers now going to register for income tax? Do they even know that they are going to have to give a portion of their salaries back to their government? Bet you they did not think of that.

      njdejager - 2012-09-20 07:56

      Once they realise the tax implications they will just strike again and DEMAND more. Thats how it works in SA.

  • mzwandile.dlamanzi - 2012-09-20 06:40

    Vavi u must admit that u were beaten in ur own game. U've been preaching narowing widening gap, ticking time bomb blah blah blah. U also lied then, u more interested in the votes mfana.

  • mzwandile.dlamanzi - 2012-09-20 06:41

    Vavi u must admit that u were beaten in ur own game. U've been preaching narowing widening gap, ticking time bomb blah blah blah. U also lied then, u more interested in the votes mfana.

  • amos.mo.3 - 2012-09-20 06:47

    Illegal strike gave lonmin mine R11000, vavi nothng u cn do BOI, jst go there n tel GOLDFIELD MANAGER to give tht guyz R11 000, finish nd klaar, ND PLS! Dnt talk abt NATIONAL UNION OF MANAGEMENT (NUM) any more, COZ ITs protect management nt employees,

  • amos.mo.3 - 2012-09-20 06:52

    Jst like our government they promise us good thngs, they fail 2 deliver, we protest, they cal police 2 kill us, after they deliver, ZUma ke setlatla ebile o phala ke NKOSAzANA.

  • ngoako.mathekga - 2012-09-20 07:26

    Vavi you didn't say a word about the strike until people were killed, even after you have spoken your focus was too much on re-elections and failed to call your NUM to order.

  • mshiniboys - 2012-09-20 07:27

    Vavi this is a wrong timing for hallucinations and paranoia.workers have got what they want.You are just trying to stop them from getting money and live a lush life like you.

  • mike.dufham.7 - 2012-09-20 07:37

    One "domino effect" that i wish will escalate is the slaying of the ANC cadres

  • luvo.luvos - 2012-09-20 07:42

    What everybody seems to be missing from the Marikana wage deal is that the R11000 was the amount the mine was supposed to be paying its workers in the first place. Previously the funds that were due to the workers were instead paid to the fatcats who own the mines

      robert.ackerman.391 - 2012-09-20 08:00

      A fatcat like Julius Malema? Help me out here but does he not have shares in some of those mines?

  • shawn.swiegers - 2012-09-20 07:48

    The Unions are worried that the workers realise they can strike without Union involvement and that means less membership fees for the Unions. It is again very clear that the Unions worry about membership and not the rights of workers. With all our pro employee labour laws the Unions are being exposed as obsolete.

  • khumbulani.kunene.12 - 2012-09-20 07:57

    You talking nonsense Vavi bewulaphi abantu befa emarikana manje uyabona abasebenzi bayakwazi ukuxoxa ngaphandle kwezinyunyana uyabheda izinyunyana ziwogxiwankulu zisebenzela abaqashi ngasese abasebenzi abazixoxele bona nabaqashi sikhathele inini nisebenzela amabhu.

  • khumbulani.kunene.12 - 2012-09-20 07:57

    You talking nonsense Vavi bewulaphi abantu befa emarikana manje uyabona abasebenzi bayakwazi ukuxoxa ngaphandle kwezinyunyana uyabheda izinyunyana ziwogxiwankulu zisebenzela abaqashi ngasese abasebenzi abazixoxele bona nabaqashi sikhathele inini nisebenzela amabhu.

  • J.Stephen.Whiteley - 2012-09-20 08:06

    Zweli, you rightly state that violence achieved what conciliation did not; what then are your porposals for improving conciliation?

  • siyaphi.dlambili.masilela - 2012-09-20 08:15

    Vavi must promote the salary increase Marikana workers managed 2 obtain, Advise mine workers on the possible way forward to get same salary increase throughout the whole RSA

  • pedrosa.matjeni - 2012-09-20 08:52

    Comrade Vavi!where have you been when workers embarked on a wild-cat strike?You supposed to have been the first one on Marikana ground to address the plight of miners.You instead allowed political influence to prevailed over labour crisis,you were still preocupied with your position within Cosatu,now that you have been re-elected,your mandate is to fight for the workers,otherwise marikana will not remained an isolated incident.

  • sipho.zipi - 2012-09-20 10:27

    The only people benefitting from central bargaining is the union bosses and it seems vavi sees the future as a threat to his financial interests .Union bosses are now fat cats as they rub shoulders with the mine bosses . Why is the cosatu conference taking place at an exclusive suburb .

  • jaco.krige.9 - 2012-09-20 10:52

    All good and well,these workers got their increase with an illegal strike!Now they must use the extra money and improve their living conditions!!What really bothers,is the fact that this will not only stay in the mineing sector! Think of the guy who took the risk of opening his own small bussines and by doing so created jobs,if this escalates further I see alot of small bussineses closing!These owners did not just open these shops so that it can break even,you open a bussines to make profit!I agree not to do ot to the detrement of workers,but he still took the risk!

  • monway.olivier - 2012-09-20 11:55

    Union leaders must ask themselves one question "Why do workers lose TRUST and FAITH in them (unions)?", hence you'll see more often such action by workers. Union leaders must sort their house urgently.

  • KennySven - 2012-09-20 12:25

    Vavi,I like your red communist outfit.Close any affected mines for 6 months and let the union feed the workers and supply any cash they need. Viva Mine Workers Back To Work Viva, Viva The Union Wan'ts Your Money Viva.

  • mathivha.obert - 2012-09-20 15:51

    The moment COSATU & ANC realizes that representing people's aspirations is not their exclusive God ordained responsibility and be humbled by the trust put on them by workers facing dangerous and exploitative working conditions, the better. A lesson must be learned here that workers won't have to wait for VAVI & Baleni indefinite honeymoon with captains of industries to end before they take it up to themselves. Whereas to Vavi and Baleni this pose a threat, to workers and their families this reinstate lost confidence that real power does not lie with Zuma, Vavi & Baleni, but workers themselves

  • daniel.malan3 - 2012-09-20 19:40

    Determining salary increases is not that hard...inflation has a role to play, but more importantly, do the workers have the sufficient qualifications to warrant an increase, do they try and improve themselves, do their productivity levels justify it? If you strike for 6 weeks and behave as barbarians, you don't deserve an increase.

  • tngulube3 - 2012-09-24 12:54

    It show that cosatu(num) benefited a lot from mining how many years they represented the mining workers without telling them their wages is very low. Worker's should thank juluis Malema for rasing the issue of mines(nationalism) that when the boom started to exploit for COSATU. Vavi get real represent worker's not ANC.

  • tngulube3 - 2012-09-24 12:55

    It show that cosatu(num) benefited a lot from mining how many years they represented the mining workers without telling them their wages is very low. Worker's should thank Julius Malema for raising the issue of mines(nationalism) that when the boom started to exploit for COSATU. Vavi get real represent worker's not ANC.

  • glen.e.huysamer - 2012-09-25 13:20

    @ Ryan You ask me this question yet you claim to be the economist, what then is your figure? You still seem to consider that money investors have more rights than the people that actually invest their life into the mine. Lets face it you are to schooled to break the mould, and you seem not to understand the turnaround that actually took place in the mines that change the management strategies. You refuse to look at the results achieved. I believe that South African minerals are a national resource and as such the industry should change and follow the Khumba structures. Khumba management works(a few years ago people laughed it off as a disaster in the making) but now it makes Lonmin and other mines whose management have stuck to 'old ways' look like a bunch of fools. They are years behind, and their mines are what they are, as you point out, bearing little fruit. I would advocate this management strategy to any and every company, as the proof is in the pudding, look around South Africa, pick out some of the largest and most valuable companies, and check on their staff profit sharing some even having partnership strategy with suppliers and contractors. If you live in Cape Town I would direct you to one in Newlands where you can go on a tour and check out how it all works, at the same time you can have a cool beer of your choice. It was one of the first companies to start implementing staff participation in SA. It has not had one strike since 1990, and is a no1 SA export.

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