'Winnie and I made up the jobs'
2003-03-04 15:41
Pretoria - Winnie Madikizela-Mandela's co-accused, broker Addy Moolman, testified on Tuesday that he falsely stated in loan applications that people worked for the African National Congress's Women's League, and that she then signed the forms.
Before she signed the league letters accompanying the forms, the two of them would discuss the designation given to the applicant, Moolman told the court.
According to him, they did it like this because that was how Willie Meuter, national director of Saambou Bank's loans department, suggested they do it.
Moolman said there was an agreement that Saambou would extend loans to African National Congress Women's League employees.
He completed the forms on behalf of the employees, and drew up league letters to accompany them, stating the applicant's income and designation.
As the news about the loans spread, other people working in the ANC building, as well as friends and relatives of applicants, also expressed interest.
He approached Meuter about it and the Saambou director suggested they write letters, signed by Madikizela-Mandela, stating that those people also were ANCWL employees.
Agreed together on the jobs
"I told Mrs Mandela right from the start that was what Mr Meuter proposed... Mrs Mandela never told me she did not have such a clerk or such an administrative officer...
"When Mrs Mandela signed the letter we agreed on which job we would give that specific person."
Moolman said that because the arrangement was made with a national director of Saambou, he deemed it to be acceptable. He assumed the bank would verify the information, but there were never any queries.
"I expected the bank to come back and say this person did not really work for Mrs Mandela."
Moolman and Madikizela-Mandela have pleaded not guilty to 60 charges of fraud and 25 of theft involving R942 360.
The State alleges that letters on the league letterhead, bearing Madikizela-Mandela's signature, were used to fraudulently obtain loans from Saambou Bank in the name of bogus employees, including her daughter, Zinzi.
The theft charges relate to amounts of R360 deducted from loan applicants' bank accounts for a funeral policy that allegedly did not exist.
Moolman testified that Madikizela-Mandela was key to the agreement on the funeral policies.
Asked whether he did not inform her that it was illegal to link the funeral policy to the loan, he said: "If she felt it could be done, it could be done."
Loan applicants were not, however, forced to take out the policy as well, Moolman said. All of them were informed about the policy, he said.
Ishmael Semenya, for Madikizela-Mandela, said various loan applicants had testified they did not know about the policy and only realised later that premiums were being deducted from their bank accounts.
'A lot of people were not telling the truth'
Semenya asked Moolman why he did not tell his counsel, Francois Joubert, to challenge these witnesses that they were lying.
Moolman replied: "A lot of people in court were not telling the truth. I did not think I could jump up and say that."
Semenya asked why he did not point that out to Joubert, who, before completing his cross-examination of a witness, normally approached him to make sure that every aspect had been covered.
"At the time I did not think of that," Moolman said.
In his evidence, Moolman denied ever having told applicants to sign blank forms.
Semenya asked why Moolman did not instruct Joubert to tell witnesses who testified that they did sign blank forms, that they had lied.
"My understanding was that I would get my chance to testify," Moolman said.
The trial continues.
- SAPA