News24

ANC distances itself from gay comments

2012-05-06 21:05

Johannesburg - The ANC has distanced itself from an MP's comments about people's unwillingness to promote and protect the rights of gays and lesbians.

ANC MP and chair of the constitutional review committee, Patekile Holomisa, told City Press newspaper that sexual orientation had always been a touchy subject for the ANC caucus.

"The last time this issue was discussed was about same sex marriages. Most of the people in the caucus were opposed to it, but then Luthuli House and the leadership instructed us to vote for it," he told the newspaper.

Holomisa is also head of the Congress of Traditional Leaders.

City Press reported that the National House of Traditional Leaders had appealed to Parliament to debate removing a Constitutional clause protecting people on the grounds of sexual orientation.

On Sunday, the Office of ANC Chief Whip Mathole Motshekga said it had noted, with great concern, Holomisa's remarks about gay rights.

Motshekga said he would meet with Holomisa to discuss the remarks.

"The ANC caucus distances itself from these views and would like it noted that at no stage has it considered debating this issue before Parliament," Motshekga said.

Constitution

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights remained the cornerstone of democracy in South Africa.

Section nine of the Constitution, which outlaws unfair discrimination on grounds including sexual orientation, was one of the core values of the Constitution, said Motshekga.

Any law which denied people the right to their sexual expression devalued them in broader society, affronted their dignity, and breached this section of the Constitution.

Holomisa told the newspaper that gay people should not be "molested and raped" and said that homosexuality occurred when certain cultural rituals had not been performed.

"... [W]hen the rituals are done the person starts to behave like other people in society. I don’t know how it works for people in other cultures and those who live in urban areas," he said.


Comments
  • George - 2012-05-06 21:19

    Like the old USSR, the ANC should realize its model and undemocratic style of government is imploding. The only effective cure for cANCer is to kill the malignant cells. ANC should disband willingly in favor of preserving what is left of our tortured society. Failing that the voters must exercise major surgery and VOTE THE ANC OUT.

      Sharon - 2012-05-06 22:15

      I love how arrogant the ANC has become. They don't need white, Indian and coloured votes, hence BEE. And now they don't need gay votes. Who else can they alienate? Many of their former voters have turned away from them because of corruption, and young people are not interested in the past - they will vote for the future. Be careful ANC, soon there will be no one left to vote for you!!!

      Sharon - 2012-05-06 22:59

      s'true Leonard! Note to ANC: Please ignore my previous comment...

      Hat3d - 2012-05-06 23:31

      Hopefully some useful information for a better future http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Together-we-stand-20120410

      Wes - 2012-05-07 05:37

      1."The last time this issue was discussed was about same sex marriages. Most of the people in the caucus were opposed to it, but then Luthuli House and the leadership instructed us to vote for it," he told the newspaper. 2.The Constitution and the Bill of Rights remained the cornerstone of democracy in South Africa. 1.How can you instruct somebody how to vote if voting is your choice... and now can you be instructed how to vote? 2.Why is the Government trying to change the constitution if its the cornerstone?

  • dave.leverton - 2012-05-06 21:21

    "homosexuality occurred when certain cultural rituals had not been performed" Oh my word - and these people want to have a say about how we run the country ?!!

      seanpresherhughes - 2012-05-06 23:23

      It's like saying, having sex with a virgin girl will cure them of aids!? What a load of bulLsh1T - Well, taking a blue smartie in the morning and a red one at night will "cure" me from beeing gay - come on, smell the roses and catch up with the 21st century!,,! So learn to live with it - Gays and lesbians are here to stay wheather anyone out there likes it or not!? We don't have a choice and neither does anyone else - We are entitled to our constitututional rights and discrimination is also against the law - beware the "Pink Rand" is very strong and we stand together through thick and thin - if you tread on thin ice you will fall through!

      Dennis - 2012-05-07 04:48

      O M G I finally know why I am gay ..... no cultural rituals were performed for me !!!

      Antonio - 2012-05-07 07:28

      I feel like I'm back in the the european middle-ages. How far can one go to respect someone else's culture, when that culture infringes on one's right to be who he/she is (gay, straight, bi...). I do not believe it is a choice. I do not believe it is curable. I do believe it can be repressed and hidden, as was done in the past. That is not a cure, just a sweeping under the carpet. These rituals are just ways of forcing gay people to conform to heterosexual behaviour - ie sweeping their natural sexual orientation under the carpet.

      juan.beukes - 2012-05-07 09:05

      You can just laugh at the complete ignorance!

  • Jack - 2012-05-06 21:21

    Sounds like this Holomisa guy wants to discriminate against gays, why else remove the law that bans that. Needs a serious kick in the nads if you ask me

  • Phae - 2012-05-06 21:39

    Is this a general cultural belief, or are they a lunatic fringe? Very sad to hear such nasty ignorant views on the subject. To the gay readers, sorry you have to be subjected to this again.

  • Peter Jacobs - 2012-05-06 21:41

    @ Badimo...As a gay man myself all i can say is grow up. This country needs to stand together now more than ever, no matter what sexual orientation. If u cant deal with that i feel sorry for u.

      badimo.rasekgala - 2012-05-06 22:06

      you mean i must accept that homosexuality is right and moral?is that growing up?

      badimo.rasekgala - 2012-05-06 22:06

      you feel sorry for me because?

      bradNOTbradley - 2012-05-06 22:09

      well said bud!

      eugene.joshua - 2012-05-06 22:54

      I agree Peter, in a mature democracy there is a live and let live attitude, wherein the constitution is paramount. Gay rights are human rights and vice versa!

      Johan - 2012-05-07 00:45

      Badimo - I am very neutral towards homosexuality. What i find disguisting is the amount of our fellow brothers in this country that rape and abuse woman as if they are their belongings. Double standards much!

      Atholl - 2012-05-07 01:52

      Badimo you seem to have a fixed opinion against 'sexual preference' that is protected by the Constitution --- the best way (the reason why these rights are protected) is to apply a test. The test is basically whether a person's 'Free Choice' is a threat to you who does not agree with their 'Free Choice' The [Options] are : Race, Religion, Sexual Pref, Ethnicity, pregnancy (work,leave), language .... The test is : If another person who has made a 'Free Choice' from the [Options] enters your space (walks past you, enters your office, shakes your hand, visits you, plays in the same team as you etc) would you feel threatened --- ... if the answer is no (they are not a threat) then in theory you do not have the right to be a threat to their choice from the [options] ....... all the rights have equal standing .... so if you criticize or diminish their choice .... then you should not feel bad if they diminish the [options] that befall you.

      raath - 2012-05-07 07:30

      @badimo - you are the type of person which is ripping this country apart by sowing division. You are intolerant and ignorant, and with each year the newer generations of all races grow up, wise up, and it's one less year of your generation's morons remaining, being slowly phased out by tolerant people who are not bigots, who can see past race, sexual orientation, gender, religion, and language, to build a better South Africa.

      atholl.hay - 2012-05-07 09:02

      @Badimo: Gay people are born into and are part of every society in the world. They are all ages, all races, all faiths. They are doctors and teachers, farmers and bankers, soldiers and athletes. And whether we know it or not or whether we acknowledge it, they are our family, our friends and our neighbours. Being gay is not a Western invention. It is a human reality.

      jacques.swart.77 - 2012-05-07 09:29

      NEWS24 EDITORS WAKE UP AND SEE WHAT THIS BDAIMO OAKE IS POSTING!!!

      J-Man - 2012-05-07 10:06

      @ badimo.rasekgala: "matter fact i cant wait for the next farm murder are you a farmer?hehe" For that comment alone you should be dragged into the street and bliksem'd in your moer in you racist,brainless Neanderthal.

      atholl.hay - 2012-05-07 10:38

      @ Badimo. Your comment regarding farm murders is despicable! What makes it even worse is that you quote Bible verses. Do you need me to remind you that most of those people murdered on farms are your "Christian" brothers!? You are an evil bigot and a hypocrite of the worst order!

  • Neville - 2012-05-06 22:00

    They as the ANC worry about porn ,get your own house in order

      bradNOTbradley - 2012-05-06 22:10

      ha ha!

  • Collenfilemon Tshindanenemutudi - 2012-05-06 22:02

    anc is our government how cn it distence itself frm dis issue

      Piet - 2012-05-06 22:46

      you get what you vote for.....shame

  • Loyiso - 2012-05-06 22:08

    Mr Holomisa please respect our constitution!!!

  • Loyiso - 2012-05-06 22:08

    Mr Holomisa please respect our constitution!!!

  • Loyiso - 2012-05-06 22:09

    Mr Holomisa please respect our constitution!!!

  • Marius Koen - 2012-05-06 22:18

    What a twat.

      eugene.joshua - 2012-05-06 23:48

      I totally agree!

  • James - 2012-05-06 22:18

    That is exactly how stupid people react until one of his/her own turns out to be gay or lesbian. I can only hope it happens to this very dumb person who happens to be the Chair of the constitutional review committee.

  • marcanthonytaylor - 2012-05-06 22:22

    I read somewhere one in ten are gay and one in four are bisexual. Ooops there goes the vote.

  • Mashudu E Nengovhela - 2012-05-06 22:27

    The introduction of the bill of rights on sexual orientation was something new on South African society,no wonder why some of the public members defies it .I respect the feeling of uncertainty towards the majority of the public and the sexual orientation of gays.Proper education,rather than denial, reactionary and anger can prepare us towards understanding sexual diversity.I refer this to one of fellow gays asked reveral questions,he burst in anger on the questions that if a heterosexual somebody was asked the same question,he would have answered it honestly.Public understanding about gays is important for mutual respect and acceptance.Constitution and bill of rights alone can not be the master key to address this issue.

      eugene.joshua - 2012-05-07 02:00

      I hear what you are saying, but it has been part of the Bill of Rights since the constitution was approved, so it is really not 'new'!

  • eugene.joshua - 2012-05-06 22:48

    People, please the House of Traditional Leaders is not the ANC and does not speak for them! The fact that the ANC is distancing itself from this by mouth of its Chief Whip is indeed a relief and is good news! Nevertheless, we must not let our guard down! This is not over! Everywhere we turn there is an assault on our constitutional values, be it from within the ANC or the House of Traditional Leaders! We must defend our Constitution at all costs!

  • Miyagi Son - 2012-05-06 22:49

    ANC get your house in order

  • Mboneni - 2012-05-06 22:49

    PEOPLE CAN BE IN THE ANC AND HAVE DIFFERENT OPINION THAT IS TRUE DEMOCRACY PEOPLE CAN NOT BE FORCED TO RUBBERSTAMP ANY DECISION LIKE THE PROTECTION OF INFO BILL.

  • lerato.malatsi1 - 2012-05-06 23:09

    You ppl are always discriminating against homos.....4 u guys it much better if a man rape a child.shame on you ppl

  • mzwandile.dlamanzi - 2012-05-06 23:17

    i see all the coments that sympathize with gay people here gets abt 100 to 150 thumbs up, 4 us straight people we should be very woried!

      Pule - 2012-05-06 23:52

      You mean 150 people are confused...

      Aaron - 2012-05-07 00:13

      What a bunch of ignorant fools here. They don't realise that the moment they open their narrow minded, uneducated, bigoted, boorish mouths to spew hate and prejudice they instantly brand themselves as complete anachronistic idiots that belong in the dark ages. I doubt the homophobic troglodytes here could muster 10 IQ points between them.

      Pule - 2012-05-07 00:21

      Aaron is that a greek or english?Oh!You're so educated,what are you holding Msc from Oxford university,Harvard,university of Glarmogen,UCT,Toronto,Camridge?

      Wesley Bischoff - 2012-05-07 01:20

      You should be. We have always been around, and always will be. Get used to it.

      eugene.joshua - 2012-05-07 01:54

      Nope, they straight people are not worried at all, especially the educated, informed and those comfortable and secure in their own sexuality! The thumbs down should scare the hell out of the ignorant bigots like you who cannot win the argument at hand and has to resort to ad hominem style of argumentation, hate-mongering, stupid one-liners and nonsensical responses! The tide has turned guys and you have been left behind! The people of this country believes in 'live-and-let-live'!

      J-Man - 2012-05-07 10:07

      Worried about what exactly? Are you scared of them? huh? Coward?

  • Bennie - 2012-05-06 23:27

    I am proudly hetero. I dont agree with men having sex with men. But so What. This is a choice people make. They dont hurt anyone. They dont detract from society. Gay people are statistically less likely to rape than heteros. Gays are just as likely to be good or bad than the rest of us. I also dont agree with strikes,abortion etc, but that doesnt mean it should be outlawed. As soon as we start taking peolpes rights away we are on a steep downhill slope. Where will we stop then?

      eugene.joshua - 2012-05-06 23:29

      Well said Bennie!

      Wesley Bischoff - 2012-05-07 01:19

      Ain't a choice. Did you wake up one day and decide to be straight? No. But at least you aren't a hating bigot.

      Wesley Bischoff - 2012-05-07 09:14

      Whatever moron

  • Garth Leonard Williams - 2012-05-06 23:35

    I find it amazing how concerned others are about who you chose to love and what you do in your private life. It has more to do with ignorance and unhappiness in there own lives than anything else.

      william.mokgomola - 2012-05-07 06:55

      @ GL Williams,all along i thought SA is the most civilized island in Africa when we gaze at human rights issues only to found that we still have minority who resemble autocrats like Robert Gabriel Mugabe,the likes of Kikwete,\r\n\r\nOn the focused view point of my thought process it would be truly hard for someone who 's 100% traditional,rural and uneducated enough to respect LGBT union but the question is the very same people who discriminate the minority based in sexual orientation,did they chose to be attracted to women only,did they make research in terms of various categories of sexual orientations?\r\n\r\nTraditional leaders choose to violate section 9 of the constitution,mr Holomisa said sexual orientation is caused by people who failed to practice traditional rituals.\r\n\r\nWe are going to accept our cousins,brothers,neighbors,colleagues,managers,celebrities,nieces,nephews,uncles,sister etc and as long you fall under discriminated minority stand tall and recognize our rights as citizen,this is not Zimbabwe,Malawi,Tanzania,Uganda etc in Africa where the country is run by monarchy system.\r\n\r\nFed up!

  • Garth Leonard Williams - 2012-05-06 23:43

    Adrian b mak

  • Shanan - 2012-05-07 00:17

    @Tsotsi-Dur. When? All will be lost by then, ANC have failed us badly. Come on, let us try to save another Titanical Disaster. I summon the spirits to rise and save our beleagued ANC. This is my last comment in this respect.

  • Johan - 2012-05-07 00:43

    There is no need to "change or limit" gay rights. Gays have done nothing to "destroy" society as many claim. If one of my kids was gay, I will support them. There are way too many issues to worry about in South Africa than gay rights. Lets leave people to live their own lives, and start worrying about real issues - like all the straight men who constantly rape woman in this country, the crime, the corruption and murder.

  • Wesley Bischoff - 2012-05-07 01:09

    Traditional leaders = living in the dark ages. Morons

  • eugene.joshua - 2012-05-07 01:17

    I think Archbishop Desmond Tutu said it best when he said the following: " This is a matter of ordinary justice. We struggled against apartheid in South Africa, supported by people the world over, because black people were being blamed and made to suffer for something we could do nothing about -- our very skin. It is the same with sexual orientation. It is a given. I could not have fought against the discrimination of apartheid and not also fight against the discrimination that homosexuals endure, even in our churches and faith groups. I am proud that in South Africa, when we won the chance to build our own new constitution, the human rights of all have been explicitly enshrined in our laws. My hope is that one day this will be the case all over the world, and that all will have equal rights. For me this struggle is a seamless robe. Opposing apartheid was a matter of justice. Opposing discrimination against women is a matter of justice. Opposing discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is a matter of justice."

      eugene.joshua - 2012-05-07 01:32

      I am pretty sure gay people are not confused about anything, you are the one who is confused! It is really simple you see: some people are attracted to the opposite sex, some to the same sex and others to both the same and opposite sex. What they do with their sexuality determines how 'moral' they are and not their sexual orientation! See, easy! Although I think it will take more than one lesson in common sense to make you less confused!

      raath - 2012-05-07 07:43

      Pule seems to be an expert on the subject of homosexuality. First-hand experience perhaps?

  • shaine.griqua - 2012-05-07 01:46

    This holomisa being should go for another seven rounds of rituals so that he or she can be properly cleansed and healed as he or she are sitting with a cultural identity confused crisis,the very anc is bound by the freedom chrater,therefore holomisa should go and be politically schooled and be educated on sexual orientation and gender identity issues,then return to the scene,what a national disgrace and shame for a politician to react in such a way as holimisa did, get the facts and truth then study it then address the matter

      eugene.joshua - 2012-05-07 02:04

      Hear! Hear!

  • Peter Zylstra - 2012-05-07 06:46

    And God created Adam & Eve and NOT Adam & Steve!

      eugene.joshua - 2012-05-07 07:12

      No, God created Adam and Eve, George and Steve, Mary and Jane!

      mbossenger - 2012-05-07 07:32

      "God created Adam & Eve" - do you have any evidence to back up this assertion?

      atholl.hay - 2012-05-07 09:12

      Gosh, what an original comment Peter Zylstra!

      Wesley Bischoff - 2012-05-07 09:12

      That is so lame. God didn't create anything, the lameass doesn't exist

  • brionyl.french - 2012-05-07 06:52

    Its time to educate the masses on the ANC so that they will lose their grip on the this place... ANC needs to basically re start and re look at what divided them... Stupid thugs

      Wesley Bischoff - 2012-05-07 10:37

      Why would they re-educate them? Ignorant, uneducated voters are easy to sway and manipulate.

  • Clayton Richard Delport - 2012-05-07 06:58

    Just shows you how dumb you okes are, there is no evolution for you...... Kill a guy or girl because of sexual orientation.... Wtf! You talk about God like you know him and then you utter crap like that! And to the person who says you must be white if your defending gays, your own people is gay aswell you moron, go to school develop your brain.... Now you wonder why 15 year old boys are shooting up the locations.... You Wannabe whites!!!! If you like us so little leave our ways an our developed world alone, go back to your BUSH an wear your little animal skin while you prance around scavenging for food like animals....

      khulu.marholeni - 2012-05-07 09:28

      you self centered light skinned fragile loony, ignorant or what? A social problem is one that concerns the way in which people live together in one society. A racial problem is a problem which confronts two different races who live in two separate societies, even if those societies are side by side, there is evidence which dates way back of our origins in this lands which ofcos excludes you and to 'say white wannabe's" dont ridicule your self i hardly ever come across a white woman who is mouthwatering or turns on cos i cant even start to imagine what you were shaped off "no proportion at all"

      Wesley Bischoff - 2012-05-07 10:36

      Both you bigot racists are pathetic. Get over the race issue already, its seriously lame.

  • zwivhuyamufamadi - 2012-05-07 07:07

    Only God can judge.

      badimo.rasekgala - 2012-05-07 08:47

      heres god judgemet Leviticus Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22 If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13

      eugene.joshua - 2012-05-07 09:04

      Ahhh, the quoting of Scripture out of context, the last resort of a bigot who has lost the argument. Tell me Mr Rasekgala, if you are so clear on the "judgment of God" from Scripture then slavery is also God's "last word" on the matter and you should not be here at all. If you want to be consistent at least be for real and condone slavery and follow al the purity and dietary laws as "prescribed" by Scripture or just shut up!

      Wesley Bischoff - 2012-05-07 09:09

      That same books states that having slaves is perfectly acceptable, if your child disobeys, he/she must be stoned to death. You cannot pick and choose which parts of that fairytale to adhere to. Hypocrite

      Yasseen - 2012-05-07 10:00

      hw silly to tink GOD WIL JUDGE every prohet came wit A HOLY BOOK FRM GOD..N NOT 1 OF THE BOOKS EXCEPT THIS WORSE ACT OF MAN N MAN - N WOMAN N WOMAN.U B THE JUDGE.

      Wesley Bischoff - 2012-05-07 10:33

      Oh jesus christ on a stick, what you type in your comments makes no sense at all. You are pathetic.

  • phinda.buthelezi - 2012-05-07 07:15

    article I wrote: http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Save-the-constitution-20120506

      eugene.joshua - 2012-05-07 07:21

      Good article too! Thanks for sharing!

  • Prudence Pelembe - 2012-05-07 07:25

    I am straight, but i have both gays and lesbians friends. Jean you perfect example of person who shouldn't be allowed to roam free in our 21st century society! It makes me sick to read your venting on this forum

  • jbotes2 - 2012-05-07 07:34

    I have many highly educated GAY friends, some of whom are doctors, lawyers, pilots and very successful businessman. We're good enough to provide employment opportunities to heterosexual people, yet still our basic human rights are at risk. If you are even ever so slightly educated or informed, you will understand that gay people do not choose to be homosexual. Who would choose to willingly become part of a minority group in society? Did you ever consciously DECIDE to become straight? I didn't think so. The next time you discriminate against gay people - remember this: We're everywhere. We may be your pilot on your next flight to Cape Town. We may be your doctor when you next visit the hospital. We may be your attorney when you need legal representation. We may be providing employment to some of your family members. And the basis on which we agreed to operate with them involved a manifesto, where it states that we proceed from different ideologies and policies. One thing that we insisted on was that they should take an oath to reject racism and discrimination. Mangosuthu Buthelezi

  • Amos Morwape - 2012-05-07 07:49

    I doubt Patekile Holomisa's son must me rolling or engaged into gay relationships.i dont have problem with gays but still i fail to understand the sexual action in the room with same sex partner.god did'nt create Adam

      Wesley Bischoff - 2012-05-07 09:05

      Lol according to your bible he dis create adam. Gays cant understand how straight people manage sex. Eeuw

      atholl.hay - 2012-05-07 09:36

      Back to school Amos ....

  • Fhedzani Sadiki - 2012-05-07 08:25

    I cannot believe some of you are bringing God into this...God made Adam & Eve? Based on text written centuries ago but man who were probably homophobic. Homosexuality is not a 21st century thing, gay people have been with us from the dawn of time. And if you believe in the bible you will know to judge others is a sin....

      atholl.hay - 2012-05-07 09:27

      Agreed Fhedzani. I'm so fed up with all these ignorant bigots throwing the Bible and God at me. The Bible was written by a bunch of ignorant peasants (not faxed from heaven by God!) a very, very long time ago and has nothing to do with the world we live in today. It is not my frame of reference. Those ridiculous ancient texts mean absolutely nothing to me. Through history they have been constantly re-translated to suit political agendas. My heart, brain and conscience are what guide me...

      William Teixeira - 2012-05-07 12:09

      yes gay people have been around since early times but if you read the Bible you would know that even back then God condemned homosexuality. it is not my place to judge but I have the responsibility to warn any one as a christian when I see them sinning as is your right to inform me if you see me sinning. I'm sorry if you feel offended it's not my intention.

  • Ashliegh - 2012-05-07 10:28

    hulle is die stereotipe mense wat is die rede waarom hulle trou met 'n lot van vroue om die dwaasheid te bewys

  • Gena Pretorius - 2012-05-08 14:08

    You know it's funny how the people think that we as the gay community has no religion. SURPRISE. We do, only difference is that we believe in loving behavior and love itself more strongly which is the only law since we are not living under the restrictions of the law (biblical law) anymore.

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