News24

ANC proposes single police force

2012-03-06 07:21

Johannesburg - The ANC advocated a single police service for South Africa in its policy discussion documents released on Monday.

"The municipal, metro and traffic police should be placed under the command and control of the national commissioner of the South African police service, as a force multiplier," the ANC said in a paper on peace and stability.

"The constitutional imperative that there be a single police service should be implemented."

Enhance functioning

According to the document, the debate was not intended to bring a wholesale integration of the police service into one monolith.

It was to enhance the functioning of the metro police, streamline command and control and ensure uniform standards.

This was a clause of the 52nd Conference of the African National Congress, but had not been implemented.

Section 205(1) and 206(7) of the Constitution stated that, in certain instances, metro police could exist, and although they were part of the single police service they were still distinct from it.

"Certainly military police, the [SA Revenue Service] customs unit, game rangers of national parks etc could not have been meant to be in the single police service," the ANC said.

"It clearly is intended to show how 'the municipal, metro and traffic police' are to come under the command of the national police commissioner."

'Force multiplier'

A "force multiplier" was specifically directed at centralisation of command and control and not on other aspects.

The ANC needed to decide on the appropriate mechanisms to implement the centralisation of command and control.

"The sub-committee is firmly of the view that the... proposals are the most expedient mechanisms to implement the conference resolutions," the ANC said in the paper.

Consensus was required on whether a single police service meant all law enforcement agencies and whether centralisation of control should take place at once or in stages.

It was also necessary to look at which law enforcement agencies should be regarded "appropriate" for local spheres of government and which services should be included in national and provincial spheres.

Comments
  • Herman - 2012-03-06 07:27

    Changing back to the past, showing that all ideas this incompetent criminal anc regime implemented was done by idiots.

      Boer - 2012-03-06 07:35

      The more things change the more it stays the same. It was a case of "it was the white man's ideas", we need to change it.

      Marion - 2012-03-06 07:37

      @Herman - Were the SAP, the traffic officers and the railway police all under the same 'commissioner' in the past? I can't remember.

      nikondaniel - 2012-03-06 07:43

      Herman. How exactly is it changing "back to the past" ??? This will be a first in RSA. Not that I agree with the ANC plan...

      Herman - 2012-03-06 07:56

      @Marion, my reply was posted lower down.

      Cindy - 2012-03-06 08:01

      In the Apartheid era the were 2 "police" forces. The SAP who investigated crime in civil society and the "railway"police who were responsible for security at stations, airports and so on. Traffic officer were similarly split into 2 distincts groups; municipal & provincial. The Municipal responsible for TRAFFIC law enforcement in toens and the provincials for TRAFFIC law enforcement on the open/national roads. Then there was a 3rd group created by the Regime, the municipal cops (Greenbeans as we called them). They were supposed to police the townships as a back up to the SAP. In reality they were ill-educated murderous thugs who were used as a tool of repression.When the apartheid regime want to swell the ranks of the "security forces", they combined the SAP & the "spoeries" (Railway cops), the SAP all bitched that the "spoeries" were ill-educated and couldnt investigate their way out of a paper bag (The standard being about Grade 12 for SAP and about Grade 10 for Spoeries) Later still, when the outcry over the brutality of the green beans became too loud to ignore, the regime incorporated them into the ranks of the SAP as "special constables. Now having read all of this, what is the ANC doing that is new? Nothing at all, they havent cleaned the inherited scoundrels out of the SAP, they have allowed Municipal police forces to exist (some good, some even worse than the green beans) Are they not also swelling the ranks of the forces of oppression?

      JasonEye - 2012-03-06 08:05

      Mark my words, this is not a good thing in the hands of the ANC, they are looking at reducing the amounts of Provinces and now the police for being controlled souly by them......this is all in response the the DA's continued gains and threat to the ANC! They see they are slowly loosing ground and they are now trying to put in place mechanisms that will assist them in gaining control of the Cape, and then controlling the police forces to keep the upset Capetonians in line. i know it sounds all cloak and dagger but its what i would do! The truth will be if they try and join eastern and western cape as one.

      JasonEye - 2012-03-06 08:06

      Im still half asleep, that was so badly written, but you get my point!

      Herman - 2012-03-06 08:28

      @Cindy, that is exactly how it was, all enforcement was done by the SAP as an overhead law enforcement institute. Is it the anc's goal to have better control over law enforcement or to enforce their law with this idea? I remember how the SAP was used by the NP and this sounds a lot similar to that.

      Xavier7034 - 2012-03-06 08:51

      Can anybody even NAME the current "Chief" of police....oh and what is his title and rank.....is it a Military rank? The ANC are so confused already in every aspect of administration, and now they are going to mess up something else even further....just wait and see.

      Spyker - 2012-03-06 09:41

      This is the definitive 'step' required to mobilise an internal army for the ANC - iow create a de facto POLICE STATE. All internal armed forces MUST be directly under ANC command, ie under the direct command of a centralised political command, via a single command to a single authority of the ANC's internal armed forces. This will allow the most efficient command of ALL the "firepower" within SA - viz with a "single command, to a single commander", the 'state' (ie the fascist regime) can instantly mobilise a massive armed force, strategically located within every 'nook and cranny' of the country. Juxtaposed next to the comprehensive disarmament of civilians, we face a situation where a largely unarmed group of people, can be "neutralised" almost overnight. The ANC's is practically preparing for 'civil war' - albeit by stealth. CRITICALLY - the provinces (the WC poses the single greatest threat) must be stripped of ANY measure of control over any armed forces. I reiterate: - Look up Zuma's past, then you will understand the reason the ANC put him in charge.., Hitler looks like a little naughty white boy in comparison. - The '92 - '94 negotiations were a farce. It was part of a comprehensive plan of deceit to disarm a force, the ANC had no means of ever defeating, in bona fide battle. - Few people understand what we are dealing with. - THIS ISSUE IS BIGGER, THAN THE 'PROTECTION OF STATE INFO BILL' AND THE ATTACK ON THE JUDICIARY, COMBINED, BY FAR...

      Boer - 2012-03-06 09:49

      Spyker, People read but don't want to accept what is busy happening. Mandela himself said that they (anc) had mo cjoice but to negotiate as they (mk) will be wiped out if they had to do battle with the SADF. Few people understood what he was actually saying.

      Isikhulu - 2012-03-06 13:23

      How is this for a starting point? The Metro Police get paid by the Municipality's and the Police by the Government. A Metro Policeman's starting salary is approx R7500 and a Police Constable R4500. Do you for one moment think they are not going to see / hear / action the difference in salaries and who is going to pay the salaries?

  • Boer - 2012-03-06 07:33

    The current police farce commander can't even control the scumbags under him at the moment. How is he going to control double that amount of scumbags?

      Ben - 2012-03-06 08:38

      They dont want the provinces to have any power. The government wants to be in total control. The A.N.C. wants to OWN the country.

      Art - 2012-03-06 09:02

      The two past Commissioners were BOTH ANC Cadre's... Corrupt to the core, and as SLY as 40 Foxes... Imagie the person they will be placing INCHARGE of this Combined Force????? What a JOKE...

      colin.dovey - 2012-03-06 09:54

      This is called "creeping communism" - their heroes are in Cuba

      Art - 2012-03-06 10:47

      Country is run by LOOTFREELY HOUSE.... not the Union Buildings!

  • johan.vanhoff - 2012-03-06 07:33

    THIS WILL MAKE THE POLICE FORCE ONLY MORE INEPT.

  • Brendon Alberts - 2012-03-06 07:44

    Plenty of infighting to get the parking under the best trees. Watch this space...

  • nikondaniel - 2012-03-06 07:45

    I wonder if Jackie Selebi will get the job?

      Kala - 2012-03-06 08:39

      With Schabir as his advisor. What has happened to Jax? Its all gone very quiet on that front.

  • Max - 2012-03-06 07:49

    Centralizing power all over the show, SA will become the last communist counrty in the world.

  • Mark - 2012-03-06 07:50

    I have just 2 questions for the ANC: Where are you going to find a competent, honest national commissioner as thus far you've had a little problem with those you have appointed? Are you talking a national police force or are you talking Gestapo because this sounds very much like the latter and thus a dangerous pointer to where you're going, and planning on taking us? I hate to point this out but many of these "new" ideas contained in your discussion document remind me, a lot, of how the old SA operated. Are you possibly running out of new ideas for your utopian state?

      Art - 2012-03-06 09:05

      Ok...George Fivaz was the LAST WHITE Commissioner.... but he was CERDIBLE, as he was a policeman that rose through the ranks, in order to get the job.... there after it was DOWNHILL, once they started with Cadre Placements.. Jobs for Mates program saw to that!

  • SarelJBotha - 2012-03-06 07:51

    I propose the police is removed from all political control. I propose that the police work directly for the communities they serve. I propose the police is forced to be peace officers under the common law and nothing else. I propose that the police may never be unionized.

  • Herman - 2012-03-06 07:52

    The SAP was the only real law enforcement in SA, they used to have specialised (working) divisions, then came the clever anc and removed these various divisions. No, the traffic police and the SAP were never one, but they all worked together as organised teams when need be. The biggest change the anc brought was the closing of specialised units and emplyoing people who are untrainable and totally incompetent. The quantity of police members not trained to use a weapon correctly is a sure proof thereof. The way the government is chopping and changing the SAP and the various other forces (Scorpions) just shows their lack of knowledge of law enforcement or even more, their wanting to enforce their own law of land on us citizens.

      JasonEye - 2012-03-06 08:13

      I have said for years that the police force should be combined. The traffic guys dont know what the metro guys are doing, and the saps guys dont know what the traffic guys are doing.....its a mess out there. Set up everyone under the same Title and uniform. Have a steady partner to work with. One week you are on traffic duty, next week your shift commander puts you on Crime prevention ops, next week you handle complaints and dockets. etc etc. Let becoming a detective be something officers strive for....instead of having detective constables running around. The local municipality can put their law enforcement budget directly into police stations within their area of responsibilities to improve training, salaries and equipment. Get the guys and girls proud of their uniform again. Make the public proud of their police force again. Crime will drop!!

      Cindy - 2012-03-06 08:50

      @Jason I agree that its chaos out there and many of your other sentiments but I never trust government motives, no matter what Party is in power. I am deeply suspicious of attempts to centralise the power of the police and incorporate make-believe cops like traffic & muni into their ranks. What criteria were used in the recruitment of both? What standard of investigative expertise do they have or are they merely going to be there to shoot & beat? We all saw how the Nats used the combined "police" to oppress the citinzenry and to pursue a National Party agenda. Just because the ANC brought liberation doesnt mean that they 100% trustworthy or that all their ideas are a)in the best interests of the country and its citizens b)only motivated by the purest of intentions and c)without hidden agendas.

      Herman - 2012-03-06 08:59

      @ Cindy, that word "oppresion" sure springs to mind with this type of thinking by the anc regime.....Apartheid doesn't seem a distant future anymore?

      JasonEye - 2012-03-06 09:00

      @Cindy i totally hear where you are coming from. My solution doesn't have to be at a national level. It could be reversed with the local government taking control of the police and national government handing over the budget. The useless ones would soon be worked out by the competent ones. I spent 10 years in the reserves and i cant tell you how many times we drove past traffic or law enforcement vehicles, on our way to a serious complaint, that had no idea that just around the corner there was a serious crime happening. All I want is to join them all together so there are more vehicles, personnel and equipment to police an already out of control crime rate!

      Hettie - 2012-03-27 14:32

      JIP THEY ARE ALREADY CLOSING THE CORRUPTION UNIT IN PRETORIA WHERE YOU COULD COMPLAIN ABOUT CORRUPTION FROM THE METRO POLICE PUT IT ALL UNDER ONE FORCE AND THE FULL PAY NO WORK HEAD OF POLICE

  • PieterWolf Lombard - 2012-03-06 07:55

    The new NATIONNAL CRIMINAL FORCE.....

      PieterWolf Lombard - 2012-03-06 07:56

      NATIONAL OOPS!!

  • Bernard - 2012-03-06 08:04

    Another step closer to Zimbabwe, and dictatorship. Keep sleeping, those who love the "rainbow" nation, and choose to be yeahsayers!

  • Phumi - 2012-03-06 08:06

    Even a unified or single police force will not work. Why not make the police force a devision within the SAND? Let's scrap the National Police Commissioner's role and let the army generals decide on the policing. South Africa is not in any kind of threat and we have the capacity in army for this. This will allow police to share the resources and expertise with them. The end result would be much more effect militarised police force!

      Bomb - 2012-03-06 08:14

      Have you seen the state of the military?

      JasonEye - 2012-03-06 08:23

      @phumi, unfortunately it has been proven time and time again in history that the military cannot police its own citizens. the reason for this is that soldiers are trained to kill, not arrest! they are trained to fight wars and not investigate crimes. Its two very different training regimes! Well it was, now its just a joke!

      winston.mullany - 2012-03-06 08:25

      The military is the military! The police is the police! Two seperate entities. Have you seen how the military of other countries have run those countries into the ground! You can't have idiots of our current military running the law, its like passing responsibility from one blind idiot to another!

      Herman - 2012-03-06 08:42

      You suggesting we become a military state Phumi......mmmmm, just another African country run by young and trigger happy terrorists....

      Mike - 2012-03-06 08:43

      I can remember a while ago when there was riots, about 2 years back, a government official proposed the military police a township and the reply was ' the military are not trained in policing', so theres the answer to that. With the state of our military at the moment zimbabwe will run us over, we've gone from being a force that scared western countries to a circus of HIV clowns, a statistic released a couple years back (+- 4 years) said that 75% of the military has HIV. Not a good prospect.

      Cindy - 2012-03-06 08:54

      @Phumi why on Gods green earth would we want a militarised police force??? Dont you remember what a militarised police force did to the citizens of this country under apartheid?? Are you willing to take that chance again? Steve Biko must be spinning in his grave...

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-03-06 09:06

      @Phumi. The Military stays military and are not good with policing. It also give a small group absolute power when it gets done like this. Think of the way dictators do it. Last but funny. Do you remember how a brigade or more military strikers run and fall around when a couple of police confronted them? I belief you suggesting it to, hopefully, create order, but the SAND do not have it anymore. Don't let them fool you. Look at when they do there "shows". It is a hand full of groups/divisions that get used on a rotating basis to show variety. Most of them can only be used to fill up figures and being use in line-fighting due to numbers. The SANDF generals is suppose to be strategists.

  • Abongile Mbauli - 2012-03-06 08:12

    With the last two commissioners being corrupt, why should the office gain more power? Just what is going on here?

      naude.andrea - 2012-03-06 08:37

      Well said and I am absolutely against it - only more power into the hands of incompetent political cadres. Sorry but now we are really skidding at break-neck speed towards a one-horse show. AND I THOUGHT THEY FOUGHT FOR DEMOCRACY? Come on.

  • Bomb - 2012-03-06 08:15

    Hey man, this circus is getting better by the day. Its so hilarious that its actually scary. Does the government not realise that all they have to do is appoint COMPETENT and QUALIFIED mangers.

  • Marnus Lamprecht - 2012-03-06 08:30

    At first money was spent to localize everything. Local government, district health care, metro policing...now they want to nationalize health care, enforced a national education system and expand the borders of the Western Cape. It might make one believe that instead of aiming to get the rest of the provinces up to the level of the WC, they will just pull it down to the level of the rest of the country. They probably know that if they combine all the money in one pool there will be so much more for them to steal.

  • Andres - 2012-03-06 08:37

    Centralise power is the pursuit of the regime with dictatorial aspirations. Cape Town is not allowed to have a Metro Police service if power is to be consolidated in the hands of the ruling party. 2014 Election: We must act before it's too late!

      Herman - 2012-03-06 08:42

      Any suggestions?

      Mike - 2012-03-06 09:01

      We could take up arms and fight communism, because thats where its headed very fast, but are we better than that? i should think so. The rest of the world needs to know whats happening, our media is so blocked from going out the borders that the world thinks everything is fine in sunny south africa, but its actually all dark. no pun intended.

  • markus.botha - 2012-03-06 08:39

    Why? Kinda obvious isn't it! Put criminals in jail not in government.

  • Johanwhk - 2012-03-06 08:48

    What scares me here is that with all the current corruption in all spheres of government and with our appalling history of abuse and corruption in the highest ranks of the police force, case and point our police commissioners.... How can we then even try to put all the power in one persons hands? All power corrupts, but absolute power corrupts absolutely.... sound familiar?

  • MSGRule - 2012-03-06 08:50

    The only single police force that will work here is an independant police force. Private police force that answers to whom i am not sure? That is impartial and upholds the law. is not dictated to by the corruption wing of the South African goverment the anc.

  • Jannie - 2012-03-06 08:57

    won cominishinah mo powa, viva anc, viva mother russia, viva china, viva mugabe, viva gadaffi, viva fidel castro, doawn weeth thee west, kill the fama, you know what? africa never learns and it is sad to say that africa could not produce real politicians that serve their country and not themselves. at least the west is apologetic now and are trying to help. Africa should get some vaseline and KY jelly, the Chinese are coming, and turst me, a shower wont fix what they can do.

  • Traygon - 2012-03-06 09:00

    Centralisation of ANY control or power is NEVER in the interest of the people - Fight against centralised control and you take your power back. Dont fall for this centralisation, whether it be on a ntional or global level -

  • Lebogang - 2012-03-06 09:02

    if all of u whining clowns were active citizens and spent most of your company time doing your jobs and spend less time on news24 this country will be a better place. stop this negative energy you wont achieve anything. people just chill the ANC is in government atleast they dont hit your buttocks like in zim.

      MSGRule - 2012-03-06 09:08

      What are you doing here. Just checking up on us? Chilling is the reason we are wehere we are. They negative energy is being spewed from the top down.

      Koos - 2012-03-06 09:13

      "they dont hit your buttocks like in zim"? Lebogang do you actually read? That is exactly what the ANC is doing.

      Cindy - 2012-03-06 11:27

      Theres more to being an "active citizen" than mere economic production Lebogang. I am economically productive and also take a very keen interest in politics. I cannot just "chill" because the ANC is in government, no sane citizen should. Governments of any hue want to stay in power and need to be watched just in case they try to find devious ways of subjugating their people. The old saying, "all that is needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing" is very true. The ANC govt is starting to show very alarming repressive tendencies and I believe needs watching. They have passed some very draconian and repressive legislation and are contemplating even more such laws (Secrecy Bill being one)We cannot excuse bad behavior simply because the ANC brought liberation!

      Leo - 2012-03-27 14:34

      check die d#$s

  • kseyffert - 2012-03-06 09:08

    And you guys actually think you know what you are doing??? It looks to me like the ANC does not have ability to think ahead. They keep changing their policy and dismaneling what they tried to build, take the scorpions for example... These guys just don't get it. You are the ruling party! Your job is to administer! You are no longer a "struggle" organisation!! Get over it! You won, now act like a governing party and administer the country properly based on performance and qualification not struggle credentials. Guys, you have been in power now for over 20 years!!! Start acting like a mature political party that you ought to be.

      Koos - 2012-03-06 09:11

      You are wrong! The job is NOT to administer but to control. The ANC aims for a one party state NEVER FORGET THAT.

  • Martin - 2012-03-06 09:11

    they are still f@cking gonna be an impotent mafia criminal cant even say force cos they just not around.. actually thats a lie, they are around, very visible but they do nothing, they just drive out their petrol, and cuff and shoot innocent people. w@nkers

  • jody.beggs - 2012-03-06 09:32

    If there is anyone that believes this cr@p , same on you ! Time for a Coup d'├ętat. Damn the man.

  • mmoledis - 2012-03-06 09:55

    It is going to be better if command of metro police services be under one command of a general or commander who then report to the National commissioner and take some commands from him and not all of them, then all metro police be governed by one act, the police act then provincial traffics also be integrated into metro police as they do almost the same duties.Or every metro police be under command and control of provincial commissioner.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-03-06 10:27

      No one trusts this... For good reason.

  • Herman - 2012-03-06 10:01

    @ Spyker and Boer, if the rest of the eyes wide closed bunch could have this insight, the criminal anc regime would be hammered into the ground, but, alas, our uneducated masses with the worst thing to happen to SA being One Man - One Vote will keep these facists in control.

  • Sean - 2012-03-06 10:21

    This is truly scary. The SAPS is already a useless corrupt entity that poses as much danger to the public as the criminals outside of the police. The only way it could be worse is to add the metro cops to the force.

  • ludlowdj - 2012-03-06 10:37

    For once I think encompassing corruption under one umbrella might not be such a bad thing.

  • ruben.maistry - 2012-03-06 10:41

    The anc wants total control in order to protect their corrupt cadres.Since in power they have still to find a leader in this field fit for purpose.Very unlikely, if ever, are they going to find one of their cadres fit for purpose.

  • Pur - 2012-03-06 12:10

    Great idea. Now all the bribe money can be channelled effectively instead of some to traffic cops and some to SAPS. And, of course, the blue light terrorists won't have to worry about being prosecuted for shooting at motorists and bashing them off the road either.

  • Stephen - 2012-03-14 22:15

    Make Cele the national commissioner and we will blow the national budget on premises for the top brass office space.

  • flysouth - 2012-03-15 14:06

    Classic Marxist/Leninist totalitarianism by increments! Bit by bit, piece by piece, week by week, month by month a new plan is implemented which has the effect of bringing closer the concentration of all power in the hands of central government. Done gradually over time in this way, most people seem unable to see the pattern - and yet history teaches us that all totalitarian states, unless they took power by sheer force of arms, have adopted this methodology as the easiest way to centralise all power without raising dangerous and militant protest.

  • Sharon - 2012-03-21 08:12

    first get a decent police commissioner then talk about intergration,you cant manage the current saps and now you lot want to chuck the traffic departments into the mix - the yanks have a word for this its called a cluster fu-k

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