News24

ANC releases policy discussion documents

2012-03-05 11:34

Johannesburg - The ANC released its policy discussion documents in Johannesburg on Monday, saying these would take the country into its "second transition".

"There are no holy cows when the ANC discusses and assesses its policies," said Jeff Radebe, speaking in his capacity as the chairperson of the national executive committee's policy sub-committee.

"We believe it is through vibrant debates, self criticism and constructive criticism, even from outside the ranks of the ANC, that we are able to come up with policies and a programme of action that will accelerate the improvement of the conditions of the lives of our people in order to create a better life for all."

Land reform was one of the main discussion points mentioned in the documents.

"The document also notes that land reform is a cardinal part of realising the objective of vibrant, equitable and sustainable rural communities," said Radebe.

"The recommendation in this document expresses the view that the current willing-buyer, willing-seller model tends to distort the land market through inflating the prices of land earmarked for restitution, and this has the dual effect of making land reform expensive and delays the process of increasing access of the poor to land."

It also proposed that the ANC government needed to develop a "blueprint policy to underpin and guide the task of reforming, rationalising and strengthening of provinces.

"The task must be carried out by government through appointment of a panel of experts."

Comments
  • Trevor - 2012-03-05 11:55

    The more the ANC changes, the more they are going BACK to how the National Party ran SA, proof, Soldiers back on the borders, education system shifting back to what it was, this multi tier province setup to create jobs for their buddies/families has failed and we going BACK to the larger single provinces, Media well, Secrecy Bill just like the Nats did...land grabbing will be nexted,people will be forcefully removed from their land in the interest of "land reform"...does it sound familiar.......AA & BBEEE will be pushed even harder once again....also, sound familiar...Not what I'm saying, what has and is being documented as part of our history and you can call it what you want, being politically correct does not change the true intentions of the ANC.

      Brett - 2012-03-05 12:08

      The Nats also allocated around 50% of the national budget to black upliftment year on year. I bet the ANC wont be doing that...

      Alan - 2012-03-05 14:21

      WTF - let's just change the Constitution, and Bob's your uncle....

      Abram - 2012-03-05 15:26

      Zim,Somalia, fonyo fonyo,this is south Africa if u r not happy fly to Britain,we need changes now,since 1994 they never try to share the wealth of this country now because people want changes they talk about our leaders who are corrupt.11% of whites were sharing the wealth of this country for over 50yrs.removing people from their land by force.today they act like angels of god because poor people talk about changes. It took apartheid gov more 30 years to run things properly for its people. Let them wait and see or emigrate

  • Cast53 - 2012-03-05 11:57

    In my opinion I can only see famine and the unemployment sky rocketing with a rapid destruction of infra-structure and investment. I am not negative but facing reality if you just take farms at will and lets say the production of food goes down with 20% and the population growth goes up by 20% in the next 10 years anyone can see where we are going and that is heading for hunger.

      asteyn - 2012-03-05 12:26

      Im wondering how is this any different to Zimbabwe...

      Alan - 2012-03-05 12:29

      How come you are wondering? It's not rocket science.

      Sinudeity - 2012-03-05 13:24

      Use your brain for a change,Chinese production is increase we won't starve,we'll import :)

      Cast53 - 2012-03-05 13:31

      @Sinudeity - With what money, China can not sustain the whole African continent. So I really think you need to wake up and smell the roses. Chinese is not helping us because they want to help us they are waiting for us to fail so they can take over

      Freddie - 2012-03-05 13:55

      Sinudeity, exactly how will you pay for these additional imports? Have you ever heard of balance of payments? or current account deficits? We already have this, more imports will simply accelerate inflation and increase poverty.

      Freddie - 2012-03-05 14:19

      Furthermore Sinudeity, Chinese production increases pertain to manufactured goods, not food. But then you can always eat the imported plastic toys and cheap clothing. China does not have excess capacity in food production, it can feed itself, not begging bowl Africa as well.

      Sinudeity - 2012-03-05 14:28

      Land reform or not South Africa is not producing to it full capacity.Gauteng is the worst people would rather build townhouses and make a quick buck.Sooner or later we must start thinking about which country will be cheapest to import food from and sooner is better. So are you saying land should not be distributed,the economy should not be deracialized?

      Sinudeity - 2012-03-05 14:38

      Imposter stole my nick.

      Sinudeity - 2012-03-05 14:46

      fredi the media is only focused on toys,china's food companies are more powerful than South Africa's.

      Sinudeity - 2012-03-05 14:51

      The real Sinudeity. Who the f*** are you?

      Freddie - 2012-03-05 14:52

      Sinudeity, Gauteng is the smallest province by far. How do you propose to feed the country from agriculture there? Please wake up, Gauteng is the mining, manufacturing and financial centre of the country. This attracts and employs many people, so of course additional housing is needed. This also brings in much needed foreign currency to pay for those Chinese imports you are so fond of. Agriculture is where it should be, in the rural areas and around smaller towns. We are pretty near our agricultural capacity levels at the moment, we should protect and nuture what we have, not destroy it because of short term political motives. The only country to have consistent food surpluses and exports is the USA, and China and the far east already buys up most of this. Biofuels are also starting to reduce the annual surplus. Care to stand in line behind that? I certainly don't. We are a small fish is a huge pond, and all resources, especially food, are becoming more and more scarce.

      Sinudeity - 2012-03-05 14:57

      Dont worry, asked news24 to look at the dates of creation. Your account will be deleted shortly, and from Facebook.

      miguel75 - 2012-03-05 15:00

      @sinudeity- shows how narrow minded you are. if we import everything then our local industries will collapse and we will be sitting with an unemployment rate of over 50% or more.

      Sinudeity - 2012-03-05 15:12

      Freddie I'm not expecting Gauteng to feed the whole country,but some land more land than current must be used for agriculture.Gauteng might be the smallest but it is larger than some countries.I agree the us always has surplus maize and more.The government must stop fighting for the greedy farmer who doesn't care about the citizen and come up with a food security strategy that doesn't depend on the local greedy and arrogant farmer.

      Sinudeity - 2012-03-05 15:17

      I can see why we should protect the food processing industry,but I don't see why we should protect the farmer and help him export to eaurope.The farmer doesn't provide jobs,only slavery,the sooner those so called farm workers realize it the better.

      Cast53 - 2012-03-05 15:19

      A country is trully in danger when it can't produce enough food for its own people!!!

      Sinudeity - 2012-03-05 15:31

      Bye fake Sinudeity. News24 staff have removed your account.

      Sinudeity - 2012-03-05 15:35

      As for the discussion, its typical of ANC fools to hate farmers. Its in their indoctrination. China's food is often poisoned, as with the baby-milk/lead case of recent. Dont know how one can expect to import all our food from China, to feed 40 million people. Are those commentators high?

      Steve - 2012-03-05 16:05

      @ the fake Sinudeity. You seem very quick to call everyone else brainless however I do feel this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Your main arguments is that we should import more food to aid the countries food security - this I'm afraid is an oxymoron. Say the South African government follows your misguided view and starts importing the bulk of our food, what happens when that country , we importing, has a drought, has a civil war or is in dispute with South Africa or one of its allies? South Africa would be putting its food security in someone else hands and I guarantee that, that other parties primary interest will not be South Africas food security. you can not have FOOD SECURITY if you are importing your food. Its similar to the reason China invaded Tibet and South Africa invaded Lesotho(1998), so that these countries could secure important water sources that were controlled in other counties.

  • James - 2012-03-05 11:58

    What they ACTUALLY mean is, "second destruction". Just remember, you get what you vote for, so no more complaints about service delivery.

  • SARealist - 2012-03-05 11:58

    Why can't the ANC just work in a true democratic framework? Why is it looking for ways and means to force non-democratic processes through by changing the constitution? Has the ANC lost its principles? OR is Bob guiding the process? Or was JM public rants actually the voice of the true ANC colours? and was JM just the ANC preconditioning methodology? TIME WILL TELL!

  • Genet - 2012-03-05 11:59

    I would suggest that the land audit as requested by the DA be urgently finalised before any more "land reform" is talked about. Let's see how much land is owned by the government before going any further.

  • wehan.victor - 2012-03-05 11:59

    Give the poor the State's Land!

      Brett - 2012-03-05 12:10

      Its not farm "land" that they want. They want everything that the farmer developed or put on that land. Ther farmhouse, the cattle, the vehicles etc etc...

      Alan - 2012-03-05 12:14

      yeah - teach a poor man to fish .. and he will have food. Feed him, and he will starve to death.

      NrGx - 2012-03-05 12:40

      Its not "state land" that they want. they want what the "white man" has!

      Alan - 2012-03-05 12:46

      Only country in the world where a 95% majority has to legislate against a 5% minority. What does that tell you?

  • Shirley - 2012-03-05 12:00

    Not worth the paper its written on! No holy cows only fat ones!

      liam.galt - 2012-03-05 14:18

      More like cash cows.

  • Traygon - 2012-03-05 12:02

    The ANC are not doing very well at all on anything in this country. Why not focus on the current problems before making new ones? If there was no service delivery strikes, or any other strikes relating to inadequate governance - I would support them trying to improve - but alas, their heads are so far up their own arses - they are not in touch with the reality of this country currently.

      Jacqui - 2012-03-05 12:55

      Traygon, if you focus on the current problems you may have to solve them.That is an altogether different kettle of fish. Creating them is easy, fixing them needs brains.

      Jacqui - 2012-03-05 13:35

      Tshililo, no government in the past? What are you talking about?.

      Sinudeity - 2012-03-05 14:30

      The majority think the ANC is doing a good job which is why they keep re electing them.

      Sinudeity - 2012-03-05 14:43

      Sinudeity is an imposter.

      Sinudeity - 2012-03-05 15:33

      ANC is doing a crap job by the way.

  • Shivaskar - 2012-03-05 12:02

    Why isn't CORRUPTION a discussion topic in the policy document?

      Cast53 - 2012-03-05 12:22

      They oviously do not think that it is a problem

      Poloyatonki - 2012-03-05 12:55

      Shivaskar. Do you have evidence of corruption?

      Dexter - 2012-03-05 13:03

      @ Poloyatonki are you retarded?? Wow can you possibly like the current Government?? just because they are the same race as you? How stupid... If the DA was as corrupt and utterly useless as the ANC, I would stop supporting them and look elsewhere. This is Africa's curse.

      Rudie - 2012-03-05 13:16

      @polonytotie Go grab yourself a cup of suicide.

  • ReunionofIntelligentMinds - 2012-03-05 12:15

    Experts? which experts? The ANC has already long ago decided to just take the land. And here I was under the impression the Constitution was safe from their little grubby fingers but it seems I was wrong.

      Alan - 2012-03-05 12:26

      Experts and ANC are mutually exclusive words.

  • Tom - 2012-03-05 12:17

    "willing-buyer Willing-seller distorts prices". Wow, even a first-year economics student would realise what utter communist trash that statement is. Taking land without compensation is expropriation. If they have guts they will admit that their language use is pure euphemism, and that this is a discussion of how to take something for nothing and hope nobody will be upset by such an outrageous and unconstitutional act. Which is not-so-coincidentally they are taking aim at the constitutional court as they know this hogwash is a complete contravention of our constitution.

      Jacqui - 2012-03-05 12:57

      Banele, stolen from whom/. Like stolen from the Khoi by your ancestors?.

      Alan - 2012-03-05 13:01

      @ Banele - and you come to that conclusion...HOW? Remember - SA is already facing a massive food and usable water crisis. Productive land should be a priority of our Govt. My own view is that people and Govt's are just passing through on this earth, and the land should belong to nobody. It is nobody's to abuse and destroy. The trouble really is that humans are generally materlialistic and greedy, and have little regard for the future generations.

      Alex - 2012-03-05 13:12

      Banele let's discuss The land issue for a moment. The process of forced removals from land was despicable and immoral. However, and here is the irony. Laws instituted the process of land expropriation and as a result of these laws, it was in fact done legally. Law and morality are too separate ideals and the one is not always represented by the other. Also interestingly enough, a person cannot be found to have done something illegal or criminal if at the time the action was not deemed a crime. To call white land owners thieves is defamatory actually.

      Alex - 2012-03-05 13:14

      And Banele And how is land distribution going to work? One cannot simply wonder onto a piece of land and put their name on the postbox. Who will be given first priority when it comes to land? Those who were displaced first? And will everyone who, in their history and that of their families, have a claim to land? Surely then Black Americans also have a claim to land, as their decedents were taken from their homes, families and land and taken to America? And as the earliest victims of forced removals, claims should be settled first?

      Banele - 2012-03-05 13:17

      Jacque- forcefully taken from Africans by European descendents. Khoi and Africans are indigenous South Africans, not the aggressors of violence who took our land by conquest. It is what it is and it aint what it isn;t. Don;t be fooled by Pieter Mulder, he wasn't here and has no traceable roots in Africa, Africans and the Khoisan do.

      Paul - 2012-03-05 13:23

      @ Banele. When did Africans actually own the land under their feet anyway? No African was able to just claim a piece of land. Chief and Headmen designated where and when whomever could reside, and how much land they could farm and under what conditions. The real fact is that giving land to someone does not make a farmer. It creates a liability. How many agricultural schools has the ANC Gov opened? Are they offering bursaries to deserving candidates? What rural farming policies are in place ? How many co-op development start-ups are economically viable? The issue is not who farms the land but for whom the land is farmed and who will profit from the labor. It wont be the farmer that i can assure you whether they White or Black Beyond that deeper issues are the willingness to bow to Genetically Modified seed manufacturers and Pharmaceutical/Chemical industry. (The reason why Hemp and Marijuana is banned b.t.w. 40 000 products patent free produced before 1937) Do some research into codex alimentarius http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/codex-alimentarius.html Check out Hemp Production. Which would be an immediate economic solution for the most desperately disadvantaged. Which could create a sustainable and viable up-liftment platform, guaranteed employment. Best of all ECO FRIENDLY but why would we want that?

      Alan - 2012-03-05 13:27

      whaahaa Banele.... yeah the original inhabitants of Africa were peace loving fellah's driving off in their BMW's to do a peaceful day of cattle tending. There were never any wars over territories. The only Blackberries known to those people were really berries. Hyenas in those days were animals (not the Vavi version of Govt.).All was peaceful. You are a Khoi right Banele? The biggest problem of course is the notion that humans (or some anyway)evolved from apes. Maybe we should all agree to let the apes rule the land rather.

      Alan - 2012-03-05 13:59

      @Banele - seems to me that that ANC is recreating the apartheid era.

      Mano-Lee - 2012-03-05 15:49

      @banele - I cannot understand why you are treated by whites the way you are. But i can take a good guess. Be that as it may, without getting into a full debate about it again, you guys stole the land from the Khoi and San people. Will you give it back to them? Secondly, it was a minority of a minority that forced apartheid on the whole populace of SA. Most whites were lied to about the going ons of apartheid. The NP used propoganda and fear tactics to keep the voters in their pockets, much like the anc is doing today. Difference is, when the whites were given an oportunity to vote for democracy and the emancipation of the black man, 83% voted a resounding yes to democracy. (still think all whites were bad?) Unfortunately benele, you live in a global community. The whole world works on capitalism. And again, should you, the mindless masses, believe you can just nationalise this and expropriate that and still believe that this economy will work, well, just like the masses, you are misled. Time after time, liberation after liberation, the results for all these african countries ends up the same. Destruction! For you to look in the face of such FACTS and still you cry for the same reform leads me to a single conclusion... you guys are dumb! You have seen the destrution up north, brought about by the same things you cry for, yet you still want it. Dumb and dumber. To think that you can do all this and maintain the current economy just cries out 'stupidity'.

      Mano-Lee - 2012-03-05 16:01

      @benele - as for africa belonging to africans, well, thats utter rubbish. Thru out history, nations conquered nations. Never has any nation returned the land back to the original populace. Cypruss an example. Israel and palestine another. You africans were conquered by another nation or nations. You could not protect your lands against superior technologies and war machines that overwhlemed you. Sticks against gunpowder and loin skins against steel armour. Just accept it. and not only where you conqured, but you were conquered and gave up land you already stole from the Khoi and San people. I think you need to grow up and accept reality. Stop the begging bowl mentality and start working for your future. You want land, then go buy some. You want money, then go work for it. What irks "whites' as you put it, is your constant bitching about free hand outs. We want this, we want that. GO WORK FOR IT!!

      Alex - 2012-03-05 17:19

      Banele, I am sorry that you experience racism in your professional arena. I take prejudices of any kind from any source and use that as a source of motivation to prove people wrong, showing them what I am capable of and how competent and able I am. It is far more effective than attacking people, placing them on the defensive and making them feel justified in their judgement. Barabus in right about how apartheid was implemented and the tactics used. It was indeed a minority of the minority. They threatened and intimidated whites that stood against them. A friend of my family was standing next to her husband (A white man) when he was shot in the head through a window, because they were in a "mixed" marriage. The propaganda used was most effective. I'm sure you have heard of the "swart gevaar" and the concept of "paternalism" The reason not much has changed since democracy is the fault of the ANC government. They have only enriched themselves and forgotten about their citizens. To suggest that a white person born in south Africa is not an African further enriches racial hatred between all race groups. Africans are Africans because it is the land of their birth, their home. Not their skin colour.

  • Den - 2012-03-05 12:17

    eish anc experts. does the anc know that poor people given food producing farms will end up destroying them through lack of knowledge? or are we living a fairytale existance.

  • Nigel - 2012-03-05 12:18

    2nd transition, spend the money we stole

      Rudie - 2012-03-05 13:22

      Yes whooza weekend.

  • Den - 2012-03-05 12:20

    just ask zanupf, they are experts at steeling land? old rob with his swollen nuts can lead the pannel?

  • mark.p.vrdoljak - 2012-03-05 12:20

    At the end of the day don't they need the 2/3 majority to change the constitution something they are currently short of?

      Alan - 2012-03-05 12:27

      what they want -- they take or get.

  • Den - 2012-03-05 12:21

    @ nigel, no they misapropriated that money, and some of it now goes to gucci.

  • Michele - 2012-03-05 12:21

    I find this incredible. The biggest land owners in the country is Govt, which owns roughly 27 % of all land. leave the commercial farmers alone so they can carry on feeding the country and rather look at leasing existing government ground to emerging farmers. It's not rocket science, but the government would rather take over existing productfull farms and then have them run into the ground.

      Rob - 2012-03-05 14:36

      To some the only thought for correcting the perceived errors of the past is to destroy everything. Thus returning the country to some sort of ideological paradise. You can already see the scrabble for big-man influence of the few at everyone else's cost.

  • Dhavandran - 2012-03-05 12:26

    "no holy cows" so don't expect much,this says it all.just move the goal posts to distract the peoples attention away from the anc govt theft,corruption and non-delivery of services and wet their appetites with land grab ideology and you are safe once again.go $%&^ yourself jeff .

  • Thandi - 2012-03-05 12:26

    H.K.G.K.

      Alan - 2012-03-05 12:28

      GK is already here

  • Anthony - 2012-03-05 12:27

    proof that they don,t know what they doing.

  • Den - 2012-03-05 12:29

    aahh poly, you can really see that your a product of south africas defunct education system.

      Alan - 2012-03-05 12:32

      make that edyoukayshin

  • Den - 2012-03-05 12:30

    tata my land i tata ur life! i could get a job at hallmark

      Alan - 2012-03-05 12:34

      and tata my Tata

  • Shirley - 2012-03-05 12:32

    Its really sad to see how the ANC mentards are running this country into the ground. Give it enough time we'll end up worse off than Zimbabwe. Perhaps if they focussed on dealing with crime and job creation i could say fine but at the end of the day all they want to do is find new ways to suck this country dry... ANC stands for 'Ag Nog Corruption' Will the last person to leave the country please switch off the lights!!! oh ja they cant coz the light bulb has been stolen ;-)

      Jacqui - 2012-03-05 13:48

      Dolly 'aculi' have a degree. Can't even be Home Science I think. Don"t you 'cum' here and talk nonsense again. Give me a break.

  • Cracker - 2012-03-05 12:32

    The most astonishing argument so far is that the Constitution has been amended something like 19 times before. So what? As if it gives you a license to go on amending the Constitution as if it is your personal political instrument. The issue is NOT that the Constitution has never been changed and therefore can never be changed. The issue is the rights and freedoms in the Constitution that now once again seem under threat. That is the concern. Astonishing how they can manipulate issues into so-called non-issues or innocuous issues. Almost like the straw man tactic. Set up an argument about a subsidiary issue which is not the actual issue and then shoot it down so everybody can think their other plans are justified. They take the people for fools. But perhaps they have a point. They intend going to the electorate for that two thirds majority needed for change based on lies like the current provisions in the Constitution are the impediments to greater wealth distribution and therefore must be changed. That is what the so-called discussion documents are all about.

  • neville.mclean - 2012-03-05 12:33

    i dare anyone on this site to say something positive!!!!

      Alan - 2012-03-05 12:38

      Sure - here goes - I am positively sick to death of the way this country is governed. Give me a Govt. that cares for it's citizens, and I will give 100% to that Govt.

      deon.fourie - 2012-03-05 12:44

      OK, I'll give it a bash. At least when corruption, mismanagement and inflation murders our Bank Accounts for the last time we'll have good weather (most of the time) as we cart around our last few belongings in a stolen Pick&Pay trolley.

      Cracker - 2012-03-05 12:45

      Here also: We are at least STILL allowed to say negative things in public about the ANC and the SACP.

      Alan - 2012-03-05 12:47

      Hmm Cracker - not so sure about that - my comments get deleted as fast as I can post them.

  • Banele - 2012-03-05 12:36

    Why will farming only work in white hands and not black hands. Why? Is it only whites who have the "superior" abilities of farming? Again, lets confront our prejudices. The idea of a white master and a subordinate black worker is old fashioned and unsustainable in Africa- where Africans right to their land and resources is unquestionable and unconditional. Dutch descendants who are not happy can go fly, change is coming soon. Finish and klaar!!!

      Alan - 2012-03-05 12:40

      You are missing the point completely with your own predjudice. We need a Govt. that makes decisions that make long term sense to benefit every single citizen, not decisions that make it easier for the select few to plunder.

      Cast53 - 2012-03-05 12:45

      Nobody said that a person with a darker skin can't farm what they are saying is that you can't give a farm to a person with no farming skiils or experience and still sustain a nation with food. This should be slowly integrated over a period of time with training and assistance. Together the people of SA can make a difference but taking from one person and giving to another based on skin colour how is it any diiferend then what happened in the history of SA? Like the ANC believe all people are equal some just more equal than others

      nolan.brunsdon - 2012-03-05 12:46

      @Banele Why only Dutch descendants? You my friend are racist!

      Cracker - 2012-03-05 12:48

      You know what Banele, you talk plain rubbish. That is not the issue. If you don't like it you can also return to the land of your forefathers. The people are being fooled to think that change for their benefit is coming.

      Jacqui - 2012-03-05 13:01

      Banele never mind. Tell me why is the rest of Africa not able to feed itself?.

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-03-05 13:10

      Lets turn your question around. Why is it that new allocated top productive farms in black hands goes to ground? Even with financial aid. Why are they now produce even less than the substandard, still white, farm that borders them while they produced a few times more than that 'white" farm in the past? Simple. The system, of changing hands and develop farmers, is not working. It all get done wrong. They more concentration on politics instead of what is really needed to have a multiracial farming community. The white farmer did not fall out of the sky and than successfully farming. They went generations through developing to be a better farmer. I know of some black(Tswana) farmer in North West that are successful(or at least when I last spoke to the uncle), but he had a method of becoming part of the existing system around him and he was proudly one of there members and successful. It was in the Apartheid years. According him, he was not the only one. Yes, we do not have generations available to address the land issue, but land issue and farming is not 100% the same issue. One is ownership and one a "calling" A Culture on its's own. Why not get existing farmers involved with schemes where they also benefit, but must produce results with new farmers. If we started it 18 years ago, we would have had our new offspring of black farmers already that was born into farming and now start helping there dads or going for more education into this field. The reason? Politics!!!!

      Banele - 2012-03-05 13:23

      I agree with Du Toit- we must start now, the process you are talking about has been hampered by whites who don;t want to let go of farms that do not rightfully belong to them, and as such we have a backlog. Indeed, we must start the process and move on swiftly. Not every black person wants a farm, I don;t. But the land cannot be monopolised by white minority. No more. It must be shared equitably.

      Dolce Dolly Mapheto - 2012-03-05 13:26

      Banele i agree with you. That land was stolen from black ppl mayb these ppl dnt knw or understand the history of South Africa. That land must be returned BACK 2 RIGHTFUL OWNERS!! Ppl mustn cum here and utter nonsense and funny enough these are white ppl's utterances!

      Shirley - 2012-03-05 13:28

      Let us guess... You also failed wood-work class hey

      Alan - 2012-03-05 13:29

      @Shirley - whahaa - we have a new 'splinter' group!

      Alan - 2012-03-05 13:31

      Hello Dolly ..... and of course you don't reap any of the benfits of the development brought to SA. You just want to still sit in a hut like in the good old days? Very convenient to ignore the positives you live with.

      Dolce Dolly Mapheto - 2012-03-05 13:35

      Shirley dear u honestly sound so pathetic i aculi have a degree. But dnt worry our government is in good hands THE LAND WILL GO BACK TO ITS RIGHTFUL OWNERS, and the thieves will have nothing. Failing or passing woodwork dear, has nothing to do wit it!

      Cast53 - 2012-03-05 13:38

      @Banele are you just stupid or are you trying to be stupid, for whites to steal the land it first had to belong to the blacks. So by your argument whites shuold give it to the blacks and then the blacks should return it to the Khoi-San people (they killed they Khoi-san and forced them of their land) and the part that was not inhabitat should stand empty without anybody using it, why stop lets go further the Khoi-San should return it to the people before them etc etc etc. You can't just have it the way that works for you

      Alan - 2012-03-05 13:40

      Eish Shirley - Dolly has cast an educated 'Spell" on you.

      Banele - 2012-03-05 14:04

      Again- you do not insult people to get them to agree with you. You are being immotive and have poor skills of engaging in a critical debate. You may distort history as you like, as if you and your forefathers where here when we "killed" khoisans. I know Hitler said "repeat a lie, until the unsuspecting believe you" but unfortunately, we are not fooled. What positive experiences have you given to black people to convince them that there are alternative ways to handle this? None, you probably still spend fortunes on your dogs than pay your domestic worker the amount she deserves for looking after your families. You "falsely" assert that people who are educated will agree with you, well I know a lot of educated people and I am one of them. This country will never again be ran by minorities with narrow interests, the fact that we didn;t kill De Klerk like Gaddaffi was killed doesn;t mean we are stupid. We are peace loving people, who are not incapable to starting a revolution which will see such come to pass!!!

      Alan - 2012-03-05 14:08

      @Banele - I think you need to take an enema

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-03-05 15:14

      @Banele. I think you will be surprise how many farms is available for relocating to black people. Farms that are even productive and where everything is already iron out, but for some reason the gov. cant close the procedures There are offers on the table of farmer unions and individual farmers to speed the process with a success connected to it, but it gets ignore. Why? I do not say that there are not difficult people and no problems, but the bot that we have are getting ignored by gov. Do you know that some farmer unions offered to gov. to help them to establish a strong black farmers community that will be integrated into the white one and becomes a multiracial one, costing less than now, but gov. is hearing death? Farming communities that decided to get involved to ensure a stabilized system where they as well as the new black farmers will benefit from. We must not allowed that political goals blind us for what is going on. This will be the only system where we can transfer knowledge, divide land and still ensure prosperity. We all long for a prosperity, peace, no sick, poorness and hunger. The perfect picture. "Stolen" land: Do you know that they discover parts of a boat, that resembles a Viking boat, against Table Mountain, many moons ago. They dig it out and made fire with it. Being so high up in the mountain only means that the mountain was still an island in those years and could not be reach by foot. Does it now means the mountain belongs their decedents?

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-03-05 15:37

      Not stating the Viking part as a facts, but use it as an example that is equal to the "fact" that black(Bantu) people were in South Africa since the begin of time.

      Kirsten - 2012-03-05 16:18

      white people must definately take responsibility for the poor informed and badly educated comments of some black people regarding land reform. Fact; they didn't have the greatest schooling (if any) under the apartheid dictatorship.... so many (younger than 25) have not been taught/ had the opportunity to learn to think/act and engage rationally! now how's a generalised comment like that make black people feel? exactly- so think before you say rubbish like "white people stole our land" we can also make generalisations...

      Mano-Lee - 2012-03-05 16:26

      @BENELE - DUMB AND DUMBER AGAIN. Plenty farms have been given over to blacks and have been ruined within a year!! Thats the whole point, idiot! Its not whether they can or cannot farm, its just that the current facts prove otherwise. Whether it be poor support from the goverment or whether they just cant farm, so called whites fear not being able to feed their kids because of some narrow desire by the masses to own a pice of land, which incidentally i can guarantee that the anc will not give to them.

  • Andre - 2012-03-05 12:37

    The ANC is a useless government and has lost the vision that made it something. It's leaders are weak, corrupt and don't understand what democracy means. Messing with the Constitution spells the end of a potentially sucessful state in Africa and condemns it to another disfunctional african disaster. Rather alow democracy to take it's course in the ANC and elect the best leaders, not based on race and dumbness.

  • Philani Nxumalo - 2012-03-05 12:41

    The issue of land cannot be overlooked; BLACK people have no land in this country. We still find ourselves living in societies that are every much unequal in everything. Most developments earmarked for blacks keeps being pushed further away from the economic activities. The income impurities that exist along racial lines create a divide that does not needs written policies to side-line, and segregate people. There are very few black people who can afford the outrageous amounts required for a roof over your head in the Suburbs. That mean blacks will have to remain where the oppressive government left them. They are the ones travelling long distances to and from work because the houses they can afford are developed further and further away from the economical hubs. The hatred and animosity that exist amongst us is enough fuel to spark such a regrettable, and preventable unnecessary war. There is but one way that can be stopped. Equal redistribution of wealth and land. What Malema utters publicly is what the majority of the black youth say inside. It’s what the young black professionals feels inside, it’s what the homeless man feel inside, it’s what the taxi driver feels inside. In short, there is a little bit of Malema in most blacks. So, ANC is correct in raising the issue of land.

      Kyle Olivier Beningfield - 2012-03-05 12:51

      You use the term 'blacks' with such disdain. Firstly, your use of Malema's views as evidence prove that you are either uneducated with regards to the socio economic impact such policies will have, or you are blatantly naïve. Maybe if the powers that be, aka ANC, actually delivered on the promises they made in election time, more black people, other than those politically connected, would share in the wealth of our country. Millions and millions of rands, earmarked to develope infrastructure and develope housing, are lost due to the high levels of corruption that is evident in government departments.

      Alan - 2012-03-05 12:53

      You have valid point .. however this Govt. needs to educate the citizens at grass roots. This has been ignored from the beginning. No education = no productivity = banana republic economy = a worse life for all. To my mind - the Govt. has got the methods and priorities of uplifting the average citizen all wrong, and the current methods are absolutely unsustainable, and I even doubt that the plight of the average citizen even enters into the equations. The priority is to hoodwink voters into keeping the current Gravy Train brigade just where they are.

      Banele - 2012-03-05 13:07

      I agree with you Philani- there is a strong denial amongs whites, that they benefited from racism. That they turned property owners into slaves by force. What happened here was a crime, how do we move on when we don;t deal with this elephant in the room. Banana republic or not- things cannot remain the way they are, either you help in tranforming our society or you go to Australia or Dutch or wherever. Truth is blacks are still being marginalised and for as long as that happens, the DA has no chance.

      Jacqui - 2012-03-05 13:13

      Philani if and when the people start warring about the conditions they have to live in and the corruption and inadequacies of their leaders, I will understand. Redistribution of wealth and land without having to do anything for it will never happen. Just like now, it will go into the hands of the few and the majority will still be left without nothing. What you want is a handout, how long do you think that will last?.

      Cracker - 2012-03-05 13:15

      @ Banele The strong denial of what is taking place is really among those who deny the clear evidence of what has been taking place in certain sectors over the last decade. And of course the denial of the presence of MANY people from our north who are the direct victims of the land policies in their countries of birth. They come here where some denialists like yourself want the same land policies to be applied.

      Christian J Denyschen - 2012-03-05 13:53

      i agree on some parts of your comment but do you think that in apartheid us white people got free houses no i don't think so every thing i owe i have worked for hard work is the only thing that pays of as soon as the government realize this and stop blaming apartheid for there sort comings we as a nation can move forward. so lets build schools, hospitals and proper houses(not these doll houses the government is building) in rural areas and i bet you that in no time you would have a fully functional town with up 2 date infrastructures. and lastly anc stop telling your voters that the whites is their enemy, we have enough guilt for apartheid we want nothing more then living in harmony with our fellow black south africans.

      Alex - 2012-03-05 18:42

      Your view that black people remain as oppressed as they were under the apartheid government 17 years into democracy is a little strange to me. Surely it is the fault of the current government for not improving the current situation for their citizens? Your view highlights that the ANC government have not improved the lives of the majority in anyway. This is their failure... The ANC raises the land issue repeatedly, promising reform, saying that willing-buyer willing-seller was ineffective. Yet they never once state HOW they are going to achieve reform. Promising reform, offering no solutions. Repeatedly. Unemployment - they promise to create more jobs, but they never say HOW they intend to do this. Again no solutions. Only 3.4 million jobs have been created since 1994, not even enough to employ 10 % of the country's majority? So many promises, no solutions and no action... Lip service if you ask me, to settle an increasingly dissatisfied nation.

  • Den - 2012-03-05 12:43

    ok lets be positive, the new owners of my farm, promissed to sell it back to me once they destroyed it.

      Cast53 - 2012-03-05 13:41

      It is a crime to buy it back according to the ANC, they gave a farm with cattle to a black guy and when he went bankrupt they bought it back for him on the auction and they same happened all over again

  • Al-ameen - 2012-03-05 12:44

    Any of these clever commenting clowns ever read the discussion documents? Perhaps they can give me a copy. I am trying to find out what the discussion documents say.

      Alan - 2012-03-05 12:54

      a discussion document is a smokescreen for implementing what has already been decided.

  • Wayne - 2012-03-05 12:47

    This sounds like land take and lets stuff it up! Oh and then blame apartheid for that as well....

  • Gavin - 2012-03-05 12:48

    OK, so we went from a country that had a decent healthcare system, the roads were well maintained and we had decently priced electricity. To a country where government officials can steal R300 million and no bats an eyelid. The next transformation will probably allow for Zuma to serve as many terms as he feels like. Corruption will be legalized and you will no longer receive a pay cheque, instead you employer will pay the government and you will get coupons that you can then use to get water and a loaf of bread. The ANC idiots think that by finessing the constitution they can make up for their weaknesses/shortcomings. How about you just do your jobs and appoint the right person to the job. This will give you great traction with masses. Oh and last but no least, good riddance to Malema the enema.

  • Jacqui - 2012-03-05 12:52

    Self critisism!! don't make me laugh. The word critisism do not appear in their vocabulary. The first transition took us from bad to worse, the second will take us to the pits.

  • Vicky - 2012-03-05 12:53

    Cannot believe News24 deleted my comment! I have freedom of speech just like everyone else and I am entitled to my opinion. What you just did puts you in the same boat as what the government is trying to do to you as the media, shut you up! My comment was not hateful, it was honest and to the point. Shame on you News24.

      Alan - 2012-03-05 13:05

      Join the club Vicky. Big Brother is clearly watching.

  • Dexter - 2012-03-05 12:58

    Let's throw more productive farms down the toilet.

  • Herman - 2012-03-05 13:06

    Makes me think of Dingaan!! Cant be trusted!!!

  • Ed - 2012-03-05 13:07

    PS: at Polo guy...admit it, if you could, you would take some white guys productive farm land wouldnt you? just be honest...even if you had NO clue on how to farm, you would. i would bet on that...and then 10 years down the line you will wonder why you are having to get the UN to truck food into the country so as to support millions of starving people. putzah.

  • jacqueseng - 2012-03-05 13:09

    oh , so now they going to propel us into the abyss at higher speed........? I can see the headline's in 5 years time : " every south african ownsa piece of land - now that it's worthless" Land reform is fine , but for heaven's sake, the people you give the land to dont know how to farm or grow a crop.... FARMVILLE skills aint really going to cut out in the field. Doing the rain dance and throwing a few bones is not going to yield good crops.There will be farms everywhere with nothing to EAT. Goverment needs to fix EDUCATION first so people will know what to do with land and how to farm on it.

      Alan - 2012-03-05 13:15

      spot on!

      Vicky - 2012-03-05 13:20

      Great comment!

  • M.C. - 2012-03-05 13:11

    @Poloyatonki R300m stolen from state coffers 2012-03-04 08:02 Johannesburg - Civil servants stole more than R300m of public money in the past financial year, the Sunday Times reported. This was according to a report by the Public Service Commission (PSC) tabled in Parliament this week. The PSC probed financial misconduct in 39 national departments and nine provincial governments. A total of 1135 cases of financial misconduct was committed by civil servants during the 2009/2010 financial year. Of these 998 were found guilty of taking R346mn from state coffers, the newspaper said. This figure was the highest recorded in five years - representing a staggering 346% growth compared with R100m in 2008/2009. The PSC slammed the government for not robustly pursuing criminal prosecution. "Failure to institute criminal action... may encourage acts of financial misconduct to continue to be on the rise," said the report. Need more proof? - SAPA

  • Dolce Dolly Mapheto - 2012-03-05 13:15

    We the ANC voters want equal redistribution of land and wealth. And the ANC will listen to its voters, so u ppl here making a noise prepare your masses wait for elections and pray and hope the hueva u support win the elections. As for now the ANC WILL RULE and will continue to rule! Follow democratic processes

      Banele - 2012-03-05 13:32

      Couldn;t have said it better. And why do people vote ANC? There is no alternative. Plus we are marginalized by whites 18 yrs into democracy, do they honestly think if they do not change their attitudes towards us we will trust them with our vote. Please!!!

      Alan - 2012-03-05 13:35

      eish Dolly - fact is that in SA like the rest of the world - handouts are unsustainable. The Govt needs to focus on education for upliftment. We have one of the laziest and most unproductive workforces in the world - but still "WE DEMAND......". Anybody with a vision of saving this country, would look forward with determination to educate themselves and their children, and to work for betterment. The Govt. should be assisting with this, rather than feathering their nests.

      Cast53 - 2012-03-05 13:45

      How can the minority of the population have such a hold over you? A lot of people in SA work to achieve their goals and dreams not like you DOLCE, BANELE and POLI that sit back and shout like a child GIVE ME, GIVE ME, GIVE ME. Here is an idea work for what you want and stop blaming everybody else for your laziness and entitlement issues

      Dolce Dolly Mapheto - 2012-03-05 13:50

      Please go and read the history of this country. That land was taken in a brutal apartheid government, blame that government for stealing land. But now we are living in a democratic country that will serve its people and do them justice!

      Alan - 2012-03-05 13:56

      @ Dolly - Sounds to me like a case of a 'chip on the shoulder' rather than anything else. This aint a perfect world, but looking back all the time is negative energy. If you want to look forward, use your brains and look for long term viable solutions, rather than falling for self enriching politician's ploys.

      Jacqui - 2012-03-05 13:57

      Dolce you may want all that you desire. But tell me what are you prepared to do for it?. I always get the impression that black people think whites needed to do nothing. My father worked seven days a week and when he died he still had nothing. In fact he wasn't any better off than you are. We aren't all rich and we don't all own farms and I wish this whole race thing will die. You as an ANC voter should ask where the progress is for your fellow human beings, instead of desiring that what others own. I am certain that the black child going to bed hungry tonight should be your priority if greed isn't colouring your outlook on things.

      Christopher - 2012-03-05 18:58

      @dolce and banele...they do not listen to you, they listen to money...white man has most of it...

  • Mtizozo - 2012-03-05 13:32

    The only time this country can benefit all is to re-view the constitution, from being compromised to face and or to show a true reflection. We cannot turn a blind eye into this. I see some of you are very negative on this matter. This does not mean kill or forcely grab from the whites, NO NO NO it does not mean that. ANC is the only party that is capable to help this country from the previous mess by the apartheid biggest corrupters. That cannot be achieved if the current law does not drive us to that goal. i.e “Willing seller willing buyer”, what a crap”” this gives you enough chance to corrupt the land and sell it once it’s useless and you go around and say they cannot farm. Ridiculers prices are put on the land to ensure that you cannot recovered even if you some cash to buy it.

      Alan - 2012-03-05 13:45

      well yeah Mti.... In essence in may not be a bad idea to make some changes to a constitution at times. My own fear is that based on the history of the ANC, we have a lot to fear! There is precious little the ANC have promised or said that has ever come to fruition. They have a shocking record of sweeping corruption under the carpet when it comes to themselves. I think I would trust Schabir more. (How is he BTW, all there years on withhsi terminal condition?). I think that the Govt should lead by example, rather than enforcing by legislation.

  • Mtizozo - 2012-03-05 13:34

    ANC should have some means to speed up this process. who ever is not happy with tough luck, boarders and hubbers are oppened,,you are not forced to stay in the country you are not happy with, lets see where will you go and how long will you stay there,,

      Alan - 2012-03-05 13:46

      huh?

      Jacqui - 2012-03-05 13:59

      Mtizozo, try again.

      Mano-Lee - 2012-03-05 16:45

      @mtozozo - you are exactly the reason why i became a racist. I am a proud product of the anc. Now you cannot call me bad because the beloved anc created me.

  • Den - 2012-03-05 13:36

    all you going to do with the land is put cow and goat.

  • francois.visagie - 2012-03-05 13:36

    With regards to land reform, it's the age-old story - instead of acknowledging that WE failed to properly implement our current plan, NOOOOO, we say it was a bad plan and make, ANOTHER PLAN!!! I see it as nothing else than covering up the government's failures and an attempt to turn "land inequality" into an emotive issue for buying votes. And as for the provinces issue... that's just shameful, blatant power-grabbing - a trojan horse attempt at undermining the non-ANC provincial government in the Western Province.

  • Georg Hendrik Laing - 2012-03-05 13:37

    We desperately need a conservative party in this country. There is an assumption that if you are black, you're automatically liberal, and if you are white you're automatically conservative. I know of quite a few black people who oppose "big government" and government's attempts to determine morality, as if right and wrong were up to them to decide. The more power we give to government, the more we will forfeit our freedom. Let's take land redistribution as an example. If government maintains the right to take land from one group and give it to another without consent, what stops government from doing the same thing in the future but along ethnic instead of racial lines? Or political instead of ethnic lines? It's a slippery slope... The NHI will allow government to determine what illnesses deserve treatment and what illnesses don't. Do we really want to allow a government who previously denied the correlation between HIV and AIDS to have even more power over how we spend our money on health? We need a multi-racial, conservative party, before government takes away even more of our freedoms.

      Psalm - 2012-03-07 12:30

      @ georg.laing While I agree wholeheartedly with you view that we need a multi-racial conservative political party in SA, I am curious to learn how this conservative would resolve the land issue and ensure that past injustices are addressed? While I lean to the conservative political spectrum, I am skeptical that any true conservative party would be able to address the land issue and bring socio-economic redress and level the racial playing field. I think a lot of Africans while conservative in values (hence leaning to conservative moral values), still support big government for the purpose of land reform, AA, BEE and other necessary means of socio-economic redress (which a proper conservative party is unlikely to tackle adequately). This is why parties with conservative values (ACDP, etc) are able to find support among Africans on the basis of values - but cannot translate that support into significant votes as they do not adequately address socio-economic injustices (a key point for Africans). Just my observations...

  • Georg Hendrik Laing - 2012-03-05 13:40

    We desperately need a conservative party in this country. There is an assumption that if you are black, you're automatically liberal, and if you are white you're automatically conservative. I know of quite a few black people who oppose "big government" and government's attempts to determine morality, as if right and wrong were up to them to decide. The more power we give to government, the more we will forfeit our freedom. Let's take land redistribution as an example. If government maintains the right to take land from one group and give it to another without consent, what stops government from doing the same thing in the future but along ethnic instead of racial lines? Or political instead of ethnic lines? It's a slippery slope... The NHI will allow government to determine what illnesses deserve treatment and what illnesses don't. Do we really want to allow a government who previously denied the correlation between HIV and AIDS to have even more power over how we spend our money on health? We need a multi-racial, conservative party, before government takes away even more of our freedoms.

      Kanetso Michael Moleeko - 2012-03-05 16:06

      Continue to vote the ANC in numbers because it is our only hope, even the minority you are welcome.

  • Den - 2012-03-05 13:40

    mtizo, id give you land just to watch you destroy it for my entertainment

      Alan - 2012-03-05 13:47

      Destroying land is actually a tragedy, one that SA can ill afford.

      Mtizozo - 2012-03-05 13:58

      doing that will also not be a problem, at least I will have a platform to start at,,why you think like an idion deon? thii is what you forefathers did, took all the goats and cows for blacks,,

      Alan - 2012-03-05 14:04

      You know what Mti..... a platform to start with is an attitude and ethic of hard work and self improvement. Hand outs - aint ever gonna work Bob

      grahamedoupe - 2012-03-06 16:12

      Ha! I don't know whose side Mtizozo is on with that last comment!

  • liam.galt - 2012-03-05 13:57

    Zimbabwe extension 1 - feel it. It is here.

  • Den - 2012-03-05 14:10

    Sorry mtizo, what was that about my forefathers? i dont quite get what you mean? My argument, is you people want the land, but have no skills on it. You want economic freedom, by simply taking land and businesses you will not prosper.

      Mtizozo - 2012-03-05 14:36

      I think it has been ackowledged that this country to survive, it needs blacks and whites to work together and respect each other. "Please stope the white tendancy, of thinking what you know is what I thought you". I have stated on me previous comments also. At the moment it's me and you sitting on one table and need to work together. It has been tested in the last 18years of democracy that our current laws does not support that. Hence ANC needs to re-view the constitution to make the systems conducive for us to survise. Not once to enjoy the fruits and one be a slave.

      Mano-Lee - 2012-03-05 16:47

      in other words, you need black tendancies to make sa right

  • Mark - 2012-03-05 14:22

    I see that my comment didn't make it into print so here goes again. Mr Radebe, you're talking political clap-trap. You cannot seriously expect anyone to believe that you believe that giving productive farmlands to individuals for small-scale farming is a workable initiative. Furthermore, if you abandon the willing-seller, willing buyer principle you may as well close the country down - in fact that will close it down. Make up your collective minds ANC whether you are socialists or democrats because you can't sit on the fence any longer - it's being pulled down by your own people.