News24

ANC 'shutting down debate on NHI'

2011-08-17 22:54

Johannesburg - Instead of encouraging a constructive discussion around the National Health Insurance (NHI) Green Paper, the chairperson of the health portfolio committee closed down the debate, the Democratic Alliance said on Wednesday.

The chief whip of the DA, Ian Davidson, would be writing to the speaker to raise the party's concerns over what seemed to be a concerted attempt to prevent meaningful discussion on the NHI, Mike Waters, shadow minister of health said.

"It is the duty of members of the health portfolio committee to ask questions and seek clarity on aspects of all presentations before the committee. It is unacceptable that an issue as important as the NHI is not open for discussion.

"Today, the chairperson closed the meeting before the director general of health answered any questions relating to the NHI proposal. The questions included a request for more details on the package of services to be offered by the NHI, the independence of the proposed office of standards compliance, access of people in rural areas to quality healthcare and the role of medical aids under the NHI. "

Waters said that the DA representatives on the committee had expected to gain clarity on these and other aspects of the Green Paper.

"This is crucial in order for us to formulate a constructive response to the proposed NHI. In the coming weeks, the DA will be formulating a comprehensive position in consultation with party structures and other stakeholders."

Waters said the party shared the national government's goal of improving access to quality healthcare for all.

Whether or not the proposed NHI achieved this would be the central question the party would ask in the weeks ahead.

"We hope that the chairperson of the portfolio committee will give opposition parties the space to engage constructively with the department's proposals," Waters concluded.

Comments
  • Fred - 2011-08-17 23:45

    The discussion was closed because those who are promoting it don't have any answers to any of the questions...... it just seemed like a good idea at the time, but how to implement and fund it .... eish !!!!!

      Netherlands - 2011-08-18 04:36

      This whole NHI debarcle, sounds ALOT LIKE THE NATIONALISATION scenario. They ARE GOING TO IMPLEMENT IT.... BUT THERE IS NO VISIBLE CLEAR BUSINESS PLAN! GOOD GOD.....The LUNATICS have TAKEN OVER THE ASSYLUM!!!!!!!!!

      Goose - 2011-08-18 07:23

      True Fred, it bseems the ANC get brain-farts and act on them without ever bringing forward a proper business plan. 5 million CANNOT support 50 million! If the NHI and tolls or even just one of these hare brained schemes goes ahead, SA will take a permanent dive. They still have not evolved past the stone age.

      fjoub - 2011-08-18 07:37

      Typical ANC. Rush into something and halfway they forget what they were busy doing

      Netherlands - 2011-08-18 08:14

      Almost like JUMPIN OFF the EDGE OF A CLIFF.... AND BUILDING YOUR WINGS ON THE WAY DOWN!!!!!!

      York Hunt - 2011-08-18 08:49

      Can we all get our heads around the idea that the NHI is basically just like the corrupt ARMS DEAL, please It's simply a mechanism to syphon funds out of the coffers of SA. This is how it will work: The ANC government will loan the money from international banksters at compound interest. They will then syphon billions off the top for themselves through corrupt tender processes. They will deploy incompetent cadres into strategic positions within the NHI to defend their corruption. And then they will have the SA taxpayer fit the bill. It worked for the ARMS DEAL, why not do it again?

      Organist-1 - 2011-08-18 09:18

      Probably quite right. The basic trouble with the ANC is that when they were thrown in at the deep end in 1994, they didn't have a clue how to govern or what democracy was. Before unbanning, they lived in a dictatorship era, doing what the "boss" told them to do. This mentality is still running through the organisation. They now have the mentality of getting hold of everything that works to "fix it" so that it doesn't work. They cant even get primary health care off the ground let alone NHI. Get primary to work first and retrain these "kraal mentality" nurses who know nothing about health issues.

      Mixyez - 2011-08-18 13:17

      The only way to get a level playing field for all the people in SA is to have a qualified vote. Every person over the age is entitled to one voting point. If you own property you get another voting point. If you are a registered tax payer you get another voting point. If you have no criminal record, you get another voting point. If you have a clear credit record you get another voting point. For those of us who are mathematically challenged you now have a five potential voting points. This way the people who are essentially funding the country would have a bigger say in how it is governed and how the money is collected and spent. If we continue along the current track, we will have mob rule by a bunch of ill educated, unemployed and unemployable who will continue to court the belief that they have the right to demand 'free' electricity, 'free' houses, 'free' medical treatment, 'free' education, unsustainable wage increases, grants for countless children and the list goes on and on and on... you get the picture. There seems to be a common thread running through the posts on all these blogs and that is that there are numerous people(blacks and whites) who are actually sick and tired of the way in which the country is governed. Until those who are responsible for perpetrating the corruption are brought to book nothing will happen or change. We just need a few examples of people in the higher echelons of government being brought to book with a serious penalty,long jail time.

      farmworker - 2011-08-18 15:08

      This DA thinks they are government. I mean what is there to discuss becuase the NHI is about to be implemented, rather raise the issues about the Nationalization of the remaining sectors, Minerals,Farms(without compensation)

  • struth - 2011-08-17 23:46

    Well are you surprised DA and other opposition parties?? This is a dictatorship of a Government and clearly NOT a Democratic one. I suggest everyone pull out of your Medical Aids NOW or you will pay the price from next year. The funding for this fiasco is going to come out of your own pockets starting from next year for the next fourteen years. Dont say I didnt warn you.

      Ian - 2011-08-18 00:24

      appreciate your point, but what about some of us who need chronic medication, what if something happens (accident etc) and i need medical attention, me go to a government public hellhole, no thanks

      JohannV - 2011-08-18 09:19

      Democracy is when a bunch of jackasses vote for a jackal to rule them.

  • Doublepost - 2011-08-18 00:15

    Send a clear message. No more tax till the ANC go! That should be the DA's new slogan!

      postmanpat - 2011-08-18 07:01

      How about those who live and work in DA controlled areas pay our tax into a trust fund which we allow the DA to use Impossible I know but worth a dream

  • PinkAndProud - 2011-08-18 01:02

    The NHI is just another way to steal from taxpayers. As one of the 5 million taxpayers, I'm getting pretty darn sick and tired of having to pay for the masses. The fact that it's compulsory is disgusting because who in their right mind would rely on anything provided by the ANC? They couldn't organize a pi.. up in a brewery and the NHI is nothing more than creating a new gravy train to steal from.

      tryanything - 2011-08-18 06:45

      Mal

      Ian - 2011-08-18 06:47

      you said it, and as i said before so long as i got the peace of mind knowing that with my monthly contributions to my medical aid i will be take care of in a private hospital or clinic, the nhi will not benifite the poor, its only there to finance there arms deals, and holidays and cars and mansions and dronk gat parties, can you omagine sharing a ward with some drunk fool who has an ax in his head, that would be the end of private health care as we know it

      Millie34 - 2011-08-18 07:03

      You are so right they are just a bunch of thieves and now they also want to implement a wealth tax!

      Roadster Babe - 2011-08-18 07:11

      @ Ian - once the NHI is implemented you won't have the peace of mind of belonging to a medical aid. The services provided by your medical aid will now be provided by the NHI. The role of medical aids in the new set-up will be to cover procedures not covered by the NHI - like boob jobs

  • Atholl - 2011-08-18 05:33

    There is a clear pattern of (unconstitutional) conduct taking shape ... The pattern seems to revolve around the diminished protection and importance of the public. ..... to silence voices of reason. ..... to create chaos ... then nominate another to carry the blame. ..... to provide a solution to the chaos that benefits to ones who created the chaos. in favour of Power, Control and Money. Is this a veiled attempt to rule 'til Jesus comes'? Is it possible that if valid questions are answered truthfully ... then the conclusions may lead to a situation where, at election time, a situation arises where those in power use the 'systems' that have been implemented to coerce by subversion : if you don't vote for me 'democratically' then you don't get your medication 'democratically' !

      umlaut - 2011-08-18 07:33

      Yes and when they control the banks and other big businesses they will also say if you do'n vote for me you don't get paid and the dictatorship will change the constitution with a 90 % vote and there won't be elections ever again. And who must we thank for all of this? --only ourselves--we have been fooled and we trusted mankind too much.

  • Trevor - 2011-08-18 05:38

    South Africa=Zim, if you don't see it, then also read the latest on the Varsity attack by the ANCYL.Kids that after 17YEARS, I mean they were 2-3years old back then, experienced this "New SA", are now fighting, this time Black on White attacks, complete 180 role reversal...like we have gone back to the 80's...only difference, now the Riot Police are Black.......

  • HumanKind - 2011-08-18 06:29

    What do you eexpect from this type of mongrel?

      daaivark - 2011-08-18 07:21

      Eexpect?

  • Millie34 - 2011-08-18 06:50

    Why would government want to discuss the NHI? It is more money for the top brass to finance their lavish lifestyles

  • postmanpat - 2011-08-18 06:58

    There would be justification for the scheme if the contributors knew that the money would actualy be used properly to create a viable and operable health scheme but because a lot of the money to date and proberbly in the future will be wasted on bad management, wasteful tenders theft and corruption it is not justified. It would be better for the health department to show that they have managed thier current resources efficiantly and then ask for more money, than to do what they have done, which is to squander the money allocated and then ask for more current health care in some goverment hospitals is a shambles (Eastern Cape for example) throwing more money at it will not solve the problem competant management will

  • daaivark - 2011-08-18 07:18

    Deomcratic dictatorship. Novel, anyway.

      BigMoose - 2011-08-18 07:24

      "Deomcratic"?

      Manningi - 2011-08-18 10:19

      Should be "Dom-cratic"

  • umlaut - 2011-08-18 07:27

    We are on a road of CONFRONTATION--the incompetent anc is set to destroy SA. SA is in deep trouble. When malema started screaming the hate speech a few years ago-that was the turning point in the history of SA. The anc proofed themselves unable to govern a democracy and they prefer the retro style governance of central control-popular with uneducated people who can only understand the principle of king and slave. Nothing that happens is in isolation anymore-from the seemingly insignificant demonstrations for the control of the UFS (and to oust a coloured person) to this NHI that is unconstitutional to penalize whites to pay for it. The aim is a racist central control dictatorship born out of hate and revenge and greed. To judge by the lust for confrontation by black bloggers in SA the spark to run riot, will probably come with the death of mandela and the farms will be targeted, and taking that will feel like brave victory by hordes of attacking savages. The spirit of the revolution will be all fired up then and all other institutions will be liberated and the anc generals will clap their hands in joy and the overseas bank accounts will start filling up as they load it with state funds converted into private accounts. But let us look at the positive side--they will be happy--for a few years until reality kicks in. And to think that we voted for this. Let us hope that history here will teach other countries that you can't trust the blacks and good luck trading with them.

      Pieter van der Merwe - 2011-08-18 09:25

      Yes Umlaut, the revolution is upon us. Be it formal or informal as is now the case. Things are going to change fast. The need for money grown out of a false perception of entitlement and 'rights' will push us over the edge. Time to start doing something. Time for those brilliant white minds that used to explore new worlds to start thinking again. The social fabric of our society is starting to tear apart and the problem is terminal. Our society will persistently push forward into chaos because of a lack of morality, education and goodwill, while the status quo will be sustained by those who manipulate the structures and popular sentiments on false and devious rhetoric. There's just too little tax payers and too many uneducated barbarians. Gosh, that was a mouthful of pseudo-intellectual crap if I may say so myself :-)

  • Ruggerman - 2011-08-18 07:31

    Stop corruption and all wasteful expenditure,and there will be sufficient funds. In addition, govern correctly at all levels and fix the crisis at the hospitals and the 'Wealth tax' will not be necessary

  • Goose - 2011-08-18 07:32

    Not one of the schemes the ANC is implementing is aimed at educating the masses or creating jobs. Has anyone noticed? Without fail, each scheme is just a further tax on the middle class of some sort. And each one an unsustainable monster. I reckon a point will be reached where even the poor whites will emmigrate as refugees.

      Ann - 2011-08-18 07:44

      Well spotted Goose - you are 100 % right in your observation.

      umlaut - 2011-08-18 08:13

      Yes goose it is very simple --you tax the whites into poverty (that can be fought in court as unconstitutional). The anc plan is to make you a beggar after having lost everything (even people like Leon Schuster) and then they will 'release' the trillions that they have kept hidden and spend it on only the blacks and they are quickly uplifted and the whites surpressed. Why do you think is malema such a sweet quite little baby now?---they ordered him to wait, they have this Grand Plan and he will be greatly rewarded later on--but leave all for the old guys now--malema's help will come later when needed.

      Pieter van der Merwe - 2011-08-18 09:31

      Umlaut, those 'youth' training camps are already up and running, proudly brought to you by Lindiwe Sisulu, proud chief in charge 'soldier' of the new SA. What do you think is done in those 'training' camps? They are outlets for the youth's political re-education and structures that will easily be adapted into paramilitary training grounds. Simple. They have a plan no-doubt. Kristalnacht! It's already here, we are just hanging on because of our inate sense of civility. 4500 White farmers have been slaughtered since '94. Farmers, mind you. They were isolated and targeted. Those in cities are only shielded by a false sense of security in numbers. Our perceptions are going to change towards the government and racial relationships. I am scared and soon those who are not informed will also be scared.

  • Goose - 2011-08-18 07:36

    Most folks think I am mad, but I truly doi not see any other way for SA other than separate development. Whites will never accept the "African way" so I don't know why we don't start talking about this as it will come to it sooner or later. Fact: The black African mind will not change. If anything, the problems on the continent have got progressively worse and the masses just can't see that they are always the common denominator. Africa is the best continent in the world but has the most pathetic beings inhabiting it.

      Pieter van der Merwe - 2011-08-18 09:46

      Goose, I'd love to start over, but since I am considering this option, why not start over on a continent where the value of life is held in high regard. Where culture is more than a string of coloured beads and geometrical shapes. I'd rather make plans to leave or, if you can still find something to contribute (like your taxes with or without your say) then stay.

  • Ann - 2011-08-18 07:40

    This is very worrying. According to news broadcasts on TV, etc there was to be a 3-month period in which the public could participate in the debate. It smacks of the same type of railroading which took place on the tolling of highways in Gauteng.

  • Jaco - 2011-08-18 07:43

    Ok. I know I am about to P of a lot of folk out there. Fact is, my parents are not of the wealthiest folk in SA even though they worked hard and dedicated giving me a brilliant upbringing. They however now rely on goverment medical as I simply cannot aford medical aid for them and with the horrible pensions they receive they cannot either. I would gladly pay x amount to the NHI provided the service in public hospitas drastically improve. This would be the only way my parents may ever receive better health care which we all need at some point. I am sure there are thousands and thousands of other folk out there with the same problem they have. I thus support this initiative provided it is run properly. (unlikely though)

      allie - 2011-08-18 08:05

      The truth is,you`ll be paying for yourself and five other no good s-ithouses.

      umlaut - 2011-08-18 08:29

      Yes Jaco we all agree that to help everybody to get good medical care would be nice but with the anc it is not the only issue--they are open racists and the price you as white will pay will not be fair and they do have the funds but they want YOU to pay. The hospitals will not improve because Discovery life as administrators will be taken over by incompetant greedy black racists ousting even the owner of Discovery and you will sit with a disfunctional hi-jacked disaster.They will sit in lonnnnggggg queues waiting for service and Sa is short of 10000 chemists and of nurses and of doctors. With this crap coming the doctors have surely already made other plans. We /you are doomed.

  • Don_Hoffman - 2011-08-18 07:45

    The NHI topic was launched to take the focus off Malemas Trust Fund.... When last did we hear anything on that...

  • Notuagain - 2011-08-18 08:02

    The NHI fund is just a creation of another fund to be pilfered from. The masses will never benefit from it. Just look at how corrupt healthcare is at the moment funded by taxes paid already. No-one is ever accountable, scams are swept under the carpet....blah blah. The toll scams will be the same. Roads will deteriorate, toll money will vanish...etc. Bah humbug.

  • pewpewpew - 2011-08-18 08:04

    all i have to say to the ANC is ,f**k this S**t im not gona pay...

      umlaut - 2011-08-18 09:01

      They are going to force your employer to deduct it directly from your pay if you are white--blacks won't pay or if they do eventually they will get it back with their tax return but not whites. You won't be able to deduct your PRIVATE medical aid contributions as usual because you are WHITE. (blacks will probably be allowed to do so) Aaron isn't the brightest guy but he threatened the private hospitals to drop their prices or else? so the private hospitals will become uneconomical and not attractive for investment purposes. Doctors with shares in such ventures will leave SA for SANE countries. A Cuban doctor will become your standard for all hospitals and their pay will be regulated. All good doctors will go. Your kids will see that once they get old they will receive the worst of medical care--guess what,-- brilliant kids will leave SA (even brilliant black ones). The term anc and destruction is one and the same thing.

  • Linda - 2011-08-18 08:37

    According to Health Minister Aaron Motsoaledi - the NHI will require R125 billion next year. That is R125 thousand million - to be paid for by 5 million taxpayers. Which is R25 000.00 per taxpayer or R2 083.00 per month! Why dont we just get our employers to pay our salaries directly into the government bank account - because they are hell bent on taking 100% of our earnings!

  • Pieter van der Merwe - 2011-08-18 08:38

    I think it's only fair to warn all those who can read that what we have here in SA cannot be sustained for much longer. The party (ANC party partying with our taxes) will continue until all the momentum of Western civilization which has built this country has expired and for as long as whites are willing to be raped literally and figuratively and are exploited for their innate tendency to be civil. My friends, a black man will kill you for R5. Our old old forefathers saw the bark from the tree because they KNEW them for who they are. Lying, stealing, raping, killing, scheming, indifference are all traits now commonly associated with the government. I associate it with a particular race because there is no culture. Culture is not selling coloured beads at the Zoo or painting your house in colourful geometrical forms, or mouthing the lyrics on Jam Alley. Culture is language, education, philosophy, discipline, individual responsiblity, the pursuit of beauty, charity and the idea that to serve is to be great, yes, I may throw in western or eastern religion as well. This is a continent filled with demon posessed greedy devils ready to rip the innocent apart. The first lie they will tell you is not to have an opinion, not to voice your concerns, not to be radical. If Julius can stretch his sphincter of a mouth then why can't we?. Soon we may find an armed struggle agains an evil regime of selfappointed, self congratulatory selfserving mini Gods. Africa Renaissance my white arse!

  • FJ2 - 2011-08-18 08:39

    It's going to be implemented, regardless of the fact that even countries like the USA, with a very much broader taxbase can't seem to make it work. Like the law on firearms were implemented, regardless of the fact that it didn't work in Canada, from whom it was copied. Like fracking in the Karoo will be allowed, even though it will destroy a very fragile ecosystem. It shouldnt be, but populism and votes, and money above all else, will tip the scale.

  • bill - 2011-08-18 08:45

    The apartheid leaders were right in one regard, the anc does not understand or support the basic principles of democracy.With regard to the NHI , it is another attempt to centralise control.The leadership of the anc seem to be stuck in a stalinist time warp and are incapable of running the sabc , the Robben Island ferry and a host of others , let alone the NHI.

  • Pieter van der Merwe - 2011-08-18 08:53

    I want to talk about Love. Real love is not soft or sentimental. Real love has a sense of justice and a vision for peace. To love our neighbour, the poor oak on the street, the shackdweller, the street kid, the whore in Arcadia, is to tell them the truth and engage them with more than money. True reconciliation will not be found through a guilt tax but a change of heart. The same truth are perceived differently by two opposing cultures in this country - Western post-modern secular humanistic civilization vs. an indigenous African world view. The two are vastly different and the most obvious would be the I vs. we. Africa 'understands' socialism because they are community inclined and self perceived. You are only somebody because of the crowd. What makes it even more interesting is that Africans have cleverly adapted and twisted principles like democracy. They are using the Jamie Uys coke bottle to stamp their mealies with. Novel, but extremely detrimental to this country. There is no way of stopping it. The end of Western rule has come for SA. The sooner we realise this the better. Start packing, arming or make plans. Start doing SOMETHING because sooner or later we are all going to answer for our choices. Whites are now exploited and slowly exterminated like the rhino. Think I'm over reacting? Please read your newspaper. We are on the slippery slope of chaos while we delude ourselves thinking it will become better. It won't. We are fighting the sea and it's a matter of time.

  • george60 - 2011-08-18 08:54

    Seems the proposed NHI will be the same as the current failure just on a broader scale to include other african states for free my man? I hope the ANC has made provision for more Sacomas?

  • Pete - 2011-08-18 09:02

    being in the healthcare business, and wishing to play devil's advocate, I hope to get an intelligent repsonse from people out there who are slating NHI. The question I have is: If YOU were contracted to provide healthcare services to the masses, how would you do it? What we have had in SA for decades (even before 1994) has been woefully inadequate. The government has a clear mandate to provide for all, and an NHI is actually the CORRECT thing to do, from a moral and ethical perspective. Most first world countries have social health structures funded by taxes, and the desire by the ANC to do the same cannot be faulted. The problem is actually that it is a HUGE challenge, which any government (ANC or DA or any other) can screw up easily. So what should the ANC do? Nothing? Plan for another 10 years and do nothing (which has been happening since before the ANC took power)? Or at least start a process? As a society and a collective, we should put aside personal issues and acknowledge that the NHI is the right thing to do.

  • Alpahbrutus - 2011-08-18 09:07

    This is how the "ANC-ocracy" works, they tell us what we will do and what we must pay for and if we don't like it, they tell us we are racist or unpatriotic and we can just leave the country. They are running the jackboot banana republic playbook word for word ...

  • Ben - 2011-08-18 09:33

    Seriously? The DA thought there is going to be a debate.... The ANC has never and will never do debates. Zuma, ANCYL fat ass... nobody.... They don't have the brain power for thinking on their feet. It's a alien concept to them.

      Pieter van der Merwe - 2011-08-18 09:59

      One must first be able to think, before you are able to speak. In order to speak one must be able to read in order to form a good enough vocabulary and syntax in order to debate. Zuma, our most high esteemed buffoon has yet to learn the art of oration and debate. He might do oral, but I don't know for sure. You are however allowed to be somebody in government if you can achieve an F for woodwork and have a Standard 4 level education. That, I think is very ubuntu of the new all-gone-south Africa.

  • Megan - 2011-08-18 09:44

    Correction here please - The anc can only get brain farts if they actually had a brain between the bunch of them

  • Andre - 2011-08-18 10:00

    Debate is closed because they will themselves make millions in corruption and stealing money from this scheme. If they can not even run smaller departments with the government, how will they manage a scheme of this magnitude? It will end line the Road accident fund that is permanently out of funds.

  • Malleus - 2011-08-18 10:34

    White Cash Cow for the corrupt.

  • Badballie - 2011-08-18 11:13

    Nothing new in Africa today.

  • Mixyez - 2011-08-18 12:06

    The only way to get a level playing field for all the people in SA is to have a qualified vote. Every person over the age is entitled to one voting point. If you own property you get another voting point. If you are a registered tax payer you get another voting point. If you have no criminal record, you get another voting point. If you have a clear credit record you get another voting point. For those of us who are mathematically challenged you now have a five potential voting points. This way the people who are essentially funding the country would have a bigger say in how it is governed and how the money is collected and spent. If we continue along the current track, we will have mob rule by a bunch of ill educated, unemployed and unemployable who will continue to court the belief that they have the right to demand 'free' electricity, 'free' houses, 'free' medical treatment, 'free' education, unsustainable wage increases, grants for countless children and the list goes on and on and on... you get the picture. There seems to be a common thread running through the posts on all these blogs and that is that there are numerous people(blacks and whites) who are actually sick and tired of the way in which the country is governed. Until those who are responsible for perpetrating the corruption are brought to book nothing will happen or change. We just need a few examples of people in the higher echelons of government being brought to book with a serious penalty,long jail time.

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