AU will not recognise Libya rebels - Zuma

2011-08-26 17:02

Addis Ababa - President Jacob Zuma said the African Union would not recognise the Libyan rebel National Transitional Council as the legitimate government as long as fighting continued in Libya.

"If there is fighting, there is fighting. So we can't stand here and say this is the legitimate [government] now.

“The process is fluid. That's part of what we inform countries - whether there is an authority to recognise," Zuma told reporters after a meeting of the AU's Emergency Peace and Security Council on Friday in Addis Ababa.

Rebels and forces loyal to fallen Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi fought near the country's coastal border with Tunisia on Friday. There was sporadic gunfire in the capital Tripoli, although it was quieter than in recent days.

  • Hamner - 2011-08-26 17:07

    Does our dithering President think the Rebels give a damn whether the AU gives it a blessing - wise up

      Netherlander - 2011-08-26 17:12

      AU only recognises DESPOTS and DICK-TATORS!!!!

      k1dbl4ck - 2011-08-26 17:19

      unfortunately for him - unlike our local politics - global politics comprises less fart, and more s*#t.

      msendi - 2011-08-26 17:21

      If we put aside personal hatred and deal with reality… As an African it is very difficult to take a decision in the situation of Libya. Libyan's are locked between the coalition of greedy West and Rebels, on the other side there is greedy Gaddafi… Those people are locked between two mosters and no one is better than the other…

      Wes - 2011-08-26 17:26 people who fight for their own freedom are greedy.

      jontheb - 2011-08-26 17:29

      Goodness, I don't know why I bother...ppl like you never learn. OK - the AU sent a negotiating team to Libya to negotiate a peaceful settlement and avoid the use of force. NATO actually threatened to shoot their plane down, so they had to turn back. Before you carry on spilling your baseless bile, may I remind you of the peaceful settlements negotiated in places like the Sudan and the DRC by the AU. NATO isn't interested in peace in Libya - they actually want this anarchy - it gets them oil concessions (coincidentally, the UK based The Sun actually advertised a 4 pence reduction in the fuel price if Gadaffi went - this is TRUE)This civil war will continue because this wasn't a popular much as CNN and the right wing media try to make it appear so...OK, now I await the responses of the uneducated blind right wing masses. read it yourselves:

      Grayman - 2011-08-26 17:29

      @msendi: your argument is quite correct, however you have omitted one other greedy party:- that of the council of the AU. The only reason why they have been so vociferously pro Gaddafi is that he greased their palms with oily dollars and now they are fearful that the Libyan coalition government may not be quite so 'generous' in buying their favour.

      Wes - 2011-08-26 17:40

      @jontheb NATO wants anarchy on their doorstep, so that large amounts of refugees can invade the EU? You as delusional as your hero, the butcher of Tripoli. When will people stop using the oil excuse. It makes no sense, especially when the major oil produces in the middle east SUPPORTED NATO. You buy oil on the market, not by invading countries. When will you supporters of evil dictators learn this simple little fact?

      SolomonMagalefa - 2011-08-26 17:53

      You could be wrong @Hamner. Just an observation to you and many others who comment here and on other News24 articles/letters. It seems that, according to some, there is nothing good can come out of Africa, the AU, the Government, et al. It is as though you view it as your sacrosanct right to criticise everything and everyone that does not conform to your world view or has a different viewpoint. Many of you insult anything and anyone (I have had plenty thrown my way today so go right ahead) because of their political persuasion (perceived or stated), race, background, etc. Imagine if our media conducted themselves in such a manner. Our freedom of speech is a hard earned right enshrined in our constitution. We should exercise that right in a responsible and mature manner. So please fight clean and acknowledge differing viewpoints (even though they might differ from yours)and cut the pessimistic forecasts until you have all sides of the story - it's the mature and responsible thing to do. Please!

      slg - 2011-08-26 17:54

      Msendi, I suggest you take a closer look. The contrast is clear when measured against human rights and freedom from oppression.

      slg - 2011-08-26 17:56

      Jontheb, are you saying that you believe Gadhafi would have ended hostilities against the Libyan people and allowed free and fair elections after he had ranted from his balcony they he would kill everyone who wanted this and had already killed thousands of people? Would you have allowed him to participate in these elections, assuming he truly would have allowed them to happen, notwithstanding his crimes against humanity?

      Grayman - 2011-08-26 17:58

      @jontheb: ah! the infallable accuracy of reporting from a British tabloid that needs to print a topless model on page 3 to get sales. A fine reference for your argument ... NOT!

      SolomonMagalefa - 2011-08-26 18:02

      Spot on @jontheb... well said.

      slg - 2011-08-26 18:02

      solomon, but then you can only support the Rebels, not Gadhafi. If ever there was suppression of freedom of speech and human rights, it's by Gadhafi.

      Anonymus - 2011-08-26 18:07

      and i dont recognise the ANC is the legitimate government of South Africa!

      Pigscanfly - 2011-08-26 18:09

      Sorry Baas

      Dominic - 2011-08-26 18:21

      Three African countries bordering Libya; Chad, Egypt and Tunisia have recognised the TNC. Others, all in northern Africa, are Gambia, Morocco, Nigeria, Senegal. AU has always been Gaddafi's club and his most ardent supporters are those who are furthest away and know least about him.

      Valis - 2011-08-26 18:24

      @Wes: Please stop flaunting your ignorance. It's not about the oil per se; It's about Ghadaffi wanting to be paid in gold instead of dollars for Libya's oil. The moment he announced he would only be accepting gold not dollars the massive propaganda and dis-information campaign was started by the West. I find it incredible that people can comment on a subject they know absolutely nothing about (bar the soundbites fed to them by the corporate media) and actually think they've contributed something.

      Grayman - 2011-08-26 18:30

      @ Valis; Pray tell where YOU get your unbiased, all-encompassing, conspiracy theory-free news from.

      slg - 2011-08-26 18:52

      Valis, how much power did Gadhafi have when Libya only produced 2% of the world oil and was an outsider as far as OPEC was concerned?

      czovczov - 2011-08-26 19:02

      Who the hell is AU? AU is as useful to Africa as tits on a boy dog.

      JWM24 - 2011-08-26 19:16

      @Valis. I look down at all your contributions, and notice three things in common with your writing - (1) Only you can see the conspiracy that is hidden; (2) Everyone but you is an media-propaganda-believing idiot; and (3) All others deserve to be insulted. I realise it must be really difficult being the Fountain of All Knowledge, but please wont you leave a little room for everyone else' opinion?

      Valis - 2011-08-26 19:41

      @JWM24: Please scroll down for my reply, I hit the wrong button :P

      jontheb - 2011-08-26 20:02

      @slg: yes, you allow Gadaffi to participate in an election. It's called democracy you ignorant toss! Oh, I forgot - you actually enjoy seeing ppl shooting, killing, pillaging and raping - which would you actually prefer? A negotiated settlement with minimal violence or this anarchy? Like I said, the anarchy will continue. This wasn't a popular revolt...

      slg - 2011-08-26 21:32

      That's not democracy, Jontheb. That's delusion and foolishness. Could be naiveté too. Gadhafi is a sociopath who would do anything to undermine democracy. Until he changes, and it is clear he has changed, it would be self-sabotaging, naive to include him. A central principle of democracy is that mass-murderers do not get to run for office. That you insult others so easily shows strong weakness in you. We all have weakness, but just saying. You're throwing yours at me. Now piss off. :)

      whereu - 2011-08-26 23:17

      Don't recognise those who are fighting – even if for their freedom? Just add another criteria. Don't recognise those states in which corruption rules. That should decrease the list of recognised states.

      Alan - 2011-08-26 23:56

      Grayman .. and AMEN TO THAT.. and to msendi.. "Greedy West" - They are no worse than the top echolons of our present goverment

      Spyker May - 2011-08-27 15:22

      Somebody has to ask the question – perpetually denying it, is just like an alcoholic refusing to admit it – NOTHING WILL CHANGE UNTIL COMPLETE DESTRUCTION, viz the African model... The idiots mentioned before, present such incongruous arguments, the greatest struggle is to attempt to classify it somewhere between babble of an infantile toddler and that of a delusional retard. To attempt a few arbitrary examples: Jontheb: “...the AU sent a negotiating team to Libya to negotiate a peaceful settlement...” I am still stumped... Like they sent a “negotiating team” to Zimbabwe, Darfur, the Ivory Coast, etc..? The AU do not “negotiate a peaceful settlement”, they simply maintain an axis of despots. Their purpose is solely to maintain a neo-feudalistic order, to repress those who are too stupid to know how stupid they are. As I said before – reserved euphemisms are a luxury that rapidly disappeared after ’94. The ‘West’ is simply grown ‘g@tvol’ that their benevolence is exploited by a bunch natural born criminals – ie deceitful, insidious, nincompoops. Peace in Sudan..? What is this freak on..? Sudan was so dysfunctional it had to be split into two countries (for a start). Peace in the DRC “negotiated” by the AU..? What unremitted trash. The “peace” was the consequence of UN Security Council imposing sanctions from ’04. cont. below..,

      Spyker May - 2011-08-27 15:22

      The civil war, supposedly ended in ’03, ACCORDING TO THE AU, that is..! Yet the crimes against humanity and war crimes against civilian populations – incl murder, rape and sexual slavery, recruitment and use of child soldiers, and forced displacement – continue unabated. NGO’s reported “rape as a weapon of war in Congo exists on a scale seen nowhere else in the world” (does it ring a bell..?). All of this under the “auspices” of the AU... I am prepared to say: the AU is the most profound RING of EVIL the world has EVER seen. Asking if certain parties are involved in (eg) Libya because of oil.., is like asking if a frog’s @rse is water-tight. What are you – a toddler..? Of course they are..! Has anybody bothered to mention the infinite number of weapons supplied to the Gaddafi regime by Russia..? Massive stockpiles of (some seriously sinister) Russian weaponry have been discovered in eg parks in residential areas. Do you think the Russians supplied weapons to Gaddafi because his wife bakes nice cupcakes..? Has anybody bothered to mention the mercenaries used by Gaddafi..? Mercenaries from Zimbabwe’s Zanu-PF and other AU despotic regimes..? Whose fault is it that the “mercenaries” on the rebel’s side by far outclass the feeble freaks used by Gaddafi..? We have also conveniently forgotten there is an ICC warrant for the arrest of the Gadaffi’s – BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE. cont. below..,

      Spyker May - 2011-08-27 15:24

      As we have conveniently forgotten that not too long ago, the ANC were exactly where the Libyan Rebel’s are today... The shoe not so comfortable on the other foot is it..? Has our ‘confuddled’ friend jontheb actually read his (own) link..? O ye, sorry, perhaps his gold fish did... SolomonMagalefa: The impetus for criticism is NOT the individual who presents the criticism – it is solely the recipient of the criticism. The defining matter is the way the recipient processes the said criticism – it almost exclusively defines the recipient’s intellectual capabilities. I would unashamedly suggest, the manner the ANC’s has made every effort possible to legislate away criticism, they simply do not possess the cognitive critical mass to process criticism – IOW, THE ANC ARE SIMPLY ADMITTING THE CRITICISM AGAINST THEM IS 100% VALID..! Note: all despotic, totalitarian regimes’ single greatest hate is criticism. This is the ONLY “sacrosanct” matter relevant here. It was so very comfortable to criticise the National Party – how does it feel to have the shoe on the other foot..? BTW – “...pessimistic forecasts...” are not by any measure the exclusive domain of subjective opinions, NO WAY..! It is almost exclusively, in the case of post-Apartheid SA, the domain of every single economic measure unequivocally pointing that post-Apartheid SA is an economic failure in the happening. cont. below..,

      Spyker May - 2011-08-27 15:24

      The only ones, who would deny the above, are those who want to steal from others with impunity..! Briefly: The ‘West’ remains the unchallenged leaders in delivering clinically un-politicised aid in the world.., in the known universe.., indeed in known history. Take some arbitrary examples – Bill Gates and Richard Branson. Do you see the same philanthropy amongst their ‘Eastern’ peers..? Western NGO’s do not only lay down the wealth of those of a European lineage, to aid the underprivileged for NOTHING in return, some of them have offered up their lives. Eg – do you see the Chinese fighting to protect the only planet we have..? Or do you see them salivating for the horns of rhino’s slaughtered in the most heinous manner imaginable, gulping up shark-fin soup from defenceless animals, from animals slaughtered in the most savage manner conceivable – they simply hack off the dorsal fin of a live shark and throws it back into the ocean alive, without it; it is like hacking off the arms and legs of a living person and then throwing him into the open ocean – I am sure our friendly protagonists will enjoy such a final outing at sea... And then there are those who attempt to suggest the “West” is THE evil force... cont. below..,

      Spyker May - 2011-08-27 15:24

      Mmmm.., who offers their citizens the highest standard of living..? If the AU was so great, why are/ have people (been) fleeing across the Mediterranean, literary in waves, from the lands of the AU to the supposedly evil West/Europe..? If Cuba was so wonderful – why are Cubans flooding the USA and not the other way around..?

      Al - 2011-08-27 16:51

      @SolomonMagalefa: Your missing the point. Hamner is just complaining how stupid Zuma is again and how useless the AU is, which we all agree on in any case.

      DoublySalmon - 2011-08-27 22:52

      Hey we recognized terrorists and murderers in our government why the sudden standard when it comes to Libya?

      tellthem - 2011-08-28 13:17

      so the rebels should give a damn about EU/Nato's blessings? shut up

      john_jones - 2011-08-28 15:30

      My golly Spyker. It seems that you have hit the proverbial 'spyker' on the head !. If I 'May' say so that was a brilliant summary.

  • BigMoose - 2011-08-26 17:09


  • Martin du Plessis - 2011-08-26 17:10

    Like they care at all what you decide, zoooma. They rejected all your "roadmaps", asked NATO for help, willingly accepts training, funding, supplies from the west and will start selling them oil soon. What do they need you fro exactly?

      msendi - 2011-08-26 17:25

      Soon, the eyes of the rebels will be opened and they will see reality… The West doesn't help you for nothing… They are there to fight their own battle, not to help the people of Libya…

      Wes - 2011-08-26 17:41

      you got GG for woodwork didn't you.

      RandomDude - 2011-08-27 00:57

      @ Msendi ... Yeah welcome to reality, nations do and SHOULD act in the interests of their citizens . And to the people that claim that the dictator has popular support in Libya please explain to me this.. If he is that popular how come he never allowed any political opposition and open elections ?

      O'forth - 2011-08-27 09:24

      @msendi: That is right. But the Libyans are predominantly fighting for their right to chose. The AU would have sat on this for years like they do in all the conficts they bring "peace" to which is in effect after everyone is fought to a stand still ie: I have been buying a leather arm band from a Sudanese refugee for at least 14 years waiting for the "Freedom of the people of Sudan" and many rotted off my arm while we waited. Now even more war is probable. How long did you expect the educated dynamic Libyans to wait? As long as Zimbawians? When did the AU bring peace to the Tutsi and moderate Hutu of Rwanda? 500 000 hacked to death. If I was Libyan and got given the window of oppertunity the Arab spring gives I would not negotiate, the Tunisians did not, the Egyptians didn't and the Syrians and many others are not taking this family politics anymore. What the AU is doing is driving the Libyans into the camp of the colonialists. That is no way for any "Leadership" of peoples to act. But it is understandable because they are not the leaders of any people but indeed the dispotic enslavers of their own peoples. Sorry mate, it doesn't work with North Africans. They have been pirating the Europeans for thousands of years, had huge empires and seen many invaders, they can give as good as they get. The AU is making a big mistake messing with the wrong people here, and so is the West if they think they are going to walk over them.

  • Hilary Ojukwu - 2011-08-26 17:10

    Great decision by the AU. It's not time to recognize anybody when the fighting is still ongoing. An all-inclusive government is needed to avoid further tribal dispute in a post-war Libya. Great decision indeed. Now, I am proud to be African.

      Dominic - 2011-08-26 17:28

      I'm ashamed by how we're obstructing democracy and freedom for the people of Libya, yet it's a source of pride for some Africans. Maybe that's why Africa remains a haven for dictators.

      Wes - 2011-08-26 17:28

      Poor decision. Further reinforcing that the AU is irrelevant and Africa is a hole where dictators can continue to murder and rape their people.

      JWM24 - 2011-08-26 17:30

      Hilary, don't you ever stop beating your pro-AU drum? This position has little to do with a well-considered response; rather it is the AU trying to save face after years of pro-Gaddafi support, despite what the Libyan people suffered under him. Its very difficult for the AU to change direction with one foot in its mouth!

      Hilary Ojukwu - 2011-08-26 17:36

      The AU is not, by taking this stance, obstructing freedom and democracy in Libya. From the beginning, the AU wanted peace, but the blood-sucking NATO countries, who are experts in deceiving and manipulating the world, would not let that. What AU is saying now is, "There are so many factions and tribes fighting in this war and all of them are not under NTC. So why recognize only one faction as the legitimate authority? Again, up to this moment Gaddafi enjoys a lot of support. The proof is that the war is not over."

      slg - 2011-08-26 17:36

      Recognition would add pressure to Gadhafi, bring him closer to surrender and end the fighting. It would however enrage him further, which is it's weakness. Light and dark in everything. Where's the most light?

      Anton - 2011-08-26 17:54

      Hilary, At every possible opportunity, you show your anti Western believes. But in the context of Libya and especially in the context of the gaddafies, it is total BS. Untill February this year, the gaddafies were not anti Western at all !!! They LOVED the Europeans and spend most of their time, in bed with them. They addored the European politicians, like Burlusconi and Toni Blair. They did not do much international trade with Russia, China, Iran or Venuzuela, BUT MAINLY WITH EUROPE !!! Because, with them ,they could do business, the way they liked it; --------CORRUPT---------- The gaddafies made billions US DOLLARS with Libyan oil deals !! And where did these gaddafi playboy kids spend most of their time ?? Moscow, Beijing, Teheran, Harare or Caracas. NO. it was in these "monstrous" capitals; London , Paris and New York !! What happened with Europe, when the Libyan uprising started? Did they suddenly turn into Mother Theresa ? No, not at all, these Europeans are just a bit smarter than most of us, and early in the uprising, THEY PICKED THE WINNING TEAM !!! C`est La Vie So, why don't you , give up on these gaddafies. They are NOT those strong principled heros, as you want us to make believe. Instead they are weak as, and plain scum!! Most of these anti Western sentiments is just plain BS. IT IS MORE LIKE SOUR GRAPES !!!

      john - 2011-08-26 18:04

      Why is an "all-inclusive government" needed? Why isn't there an "all-inclusive" government in SA? Why aren't there any Cabinet Ministers who belong to the FF+ or the AWB? Democracy doesn't need to be "all-inclusive". The party who wins the election governs, the second-placed party becomes the official opposition, parties who finish lower than that must be content with parliamentary seats and alliances with the larger parties to have impact. Merging them into an all-inclusive "government of national unity" is not democracy. If Africans aren't ready to embrace true democracy and prefer instead "rule by multi-tribal committee, regardless of election results", then they need to call it that. It sure ain't representative democracy.

      JWM24 - 2011-08-26 18:17

      Really Hillary, "blood-sucking NATO countries"? And what was your comment the other day "NATO-infested lies"? If you cannot make a proper contribution to this forum without resorting to outdated Marxist-like rhetoric, why don't you go back to Nigeria and have a look at what your kind of crazy-talk has just done to the United Nations building in Abuja?

      Valis - 2011-08-26 18:31

      @JWM24: Please explain what the Libyan people suffered under Ghadaffi? Are you saying they suffered from being provided with free, high-quality healtcare? Or did they suffer from the free education they received? Or the free housing, clean water, zero taxes? All these things were supplied by Ghadaffi and paid for with oil revenues. Do you really think the greedy, predatory oil companies, once they get their hands directly on the oil, would keep on supplying and paying for all this? Good grief, do you people just believe everything you're fed without question? Bunch of sheep.

      JWM24 - 2011-08-26 18:47

      @Valis Oh really? Gaddafi did all that? If such a humanitarian, then explain why he is being considered for a front row seat at the Hague? Why not wait a while before offering such a comment, and once the dust settles and everything comes to light, then we shall discuss who is eating what.

      john - 2011-08-26 18:56

      Valis, people who believe that the US "stole Iraq's oil" shouldn't be deriding others for "believing everything they're fed without question". Because you're the biggest culprits. Can you cite me an example of which Iraqi oilfields belong to US companies and not to the Iraqi people? No, I didn't think you could. Libya's oil was drilled/pumped by Western companies WHILE Gaddafi was in power, and sold to Western markets (Spain and Italy being the largest). So it was WESTERN petrodollars that enabled Gaddafi to supply services for the people, just as most oil-producing nations do. What makes you think that ANYTHING is going to change under the new government? Has anything changed in Iraq? No. The oil still belongs to the nation of Iraq and is controlled by the Iraqi government in partnership with foreign oil companies. Most of whom are Chinese and Russian, incidentally. The oil goes towards the national fiscus, just as it does in other oil-producing states like Qatar and Saudi Arabia. It is used to provide infrastructure and services for the Iraqi people, just as it is in other oil-producing states. Why don't you do yourself a favour, stop cruising the conspiracy theory sites and rather read a credible report on what has happened to Iraqi oil? Like this one: The truth might not set you free. But it will at least open your eyes a bit.

      slg - 2011-08-26 19:03

      Valis, they've suffered from being detained, tortured, maimed and killed if they even so much as disagreed with him in public. They also were denied the fundamental human right of electing their leaders. Libya's growth has been retarded by Gadhafi. He has pocketed billions of dollars and corrupted Libya's business practices. This is well known in international business and circles. It's not rocket-science. It's de-rigeur in any dictatorship or controlled, centralized form of government throughout human history. Those stats are propaganda intended to keep the masses happy while the dictator is enriching himself and feeding his ego with aggrandized ideas of his worth to humanity. :) One ego with so much power is a recipe for disaster, for the ego itself and those around it.

      slg - 2011-08-26 19:18

      I'm not saying dictatorships are all dark. They have light too. But history has shown they have far more dark than light.

      fraidycat - 2011-08-26 19:19

      Hilary - all inclusive like, the one party state we have in SA??? Is the AU waiting to choose the new dictator or do they have a buddy already in mind? Hope the evil west now see what kind of people they helped get rid of Apartheid!!! The AU has no balls and is a toothless joke, they could not even resolve Zim's problem, as that dictator is still in power...

      JWM24 - 2011-08-26 19:24

      Attaboy SIG - spell it out for our Valis!

      Anton - 2011-08-26 19:32

      Valis, You want to know how the Libyan people suffered under gaddafi ?? how about adding this to your hero's great achievements; UNMARKED SHALLOW GRAVES !!!!

      Valis - 2011-08-26 19:59

      @Anton, sig et al: Are you aware that the reports of Ghadaffi "slaughtering civilians" are based solely on a single Twitter message sent from a dubious source? No? I didn't think so. Yet you will happily swallow everything you are told without question? (At least, as long as it is being told by the Western corporate media.) The West automatically tells the truth and everyone else automatically lies? Is that how you see the world? I feel very sorry for you in that case. @sig: The reason for the insult was because I am sick and tired of seeing you spreading your lies and propaganda every day on these forums. So tell me, are you being paid by the word or by the hour?

      Phaedioux - 2011-08-26 20:02

      @Biko-Lives (or is really and truly dead) - nobody gives a continental what you think or say. I wonder what would happen to either Zuma or Mbeki if they were to go to Tripoli and repeat today's same speeches there? - They probably wouldn't need a lift back home, or it would be in a box.

      john - 2011-08-26 20:12

      Valis, almost all oil-producing states offer attractive benefits to their citizens. Look up Qatar, Abu Dhabi and others, and you'll find free education and healthcare, zero interest loans, government jobs for life, etc. Libya was nothing special in that regard. However, what all of these states lack is democracy. The ruling families dish out generous social services in exchange for everlasting political power. Some electorates are content with that, others aren't. However, just to drive the point home that providing social services isn't necessarily indicative of a beneficent leader, do you know who: 1) Established annual paid leave 2) Reduced the working week to 40 hours 3) Introduced overtime pay and 4) Introduced labour tribunals where workers were represented alongside management/owners into German industry and society? I'll give you a clue. It was a man with a little black moustache who went by the nickname of Der Fuhrer.

      Anton - 2011-08-26 20:49

      Valis, No,what made people the world over, clasify gaddafi as a crimninal thug, was not at all, just one twitter message. Early in this uprising, there were a few decisive moments, which made most people make up their minds, who to support in this struggle. The first was gaddafi's media conference in the first few weeks. Many knew already that this guy was eccentric, and supporter of terrorism. But few realised the level of his madness, and the name, psychopath, started to emerge in the media. the second decisive moment came after gaddafi utttered two sentences: "The blood of the rebels ( meaming the opposition ) will run in the streets of Libya" and "We will go door to door to flush out these rats" After these, the world community made up their minds, that a guy like this is not fit to be a leader of any country!!! And although one was maybe not happy with some in the oppostion , they got their full support !!!!!

      slg - 2011-08-26 21:37

      Valis, one Twitter message? Funny. I mean really. So everything we're seeing on TV and hearing about, the interviews, the women being raped, the history of abuse, the billions of dollars taken for personal use, the well known corruption, doesn't exist. On another note, the Arab Spring was started by one act: a Tunisian street merchant who had had enough of being oppressed and set himself alight. This was to show the extent of the pain caused to him. Whatever the reason for your insult, it's still weak.

      Ryan - 2011-08-27 00:21

      Hilary, wake up girl. the AU recognised Gaddafi's illegitimate government, so there should be no problem in recognizing the rebels "illegitimacy" right ?????????

  • Hilary Ojukwu - 2011-08-26 17:14

    It is sad that News24 has deliberately left out some important part of the AU decision, the part that called for an all-inclusive government that includes Gaddafi's supporters. I wonder why News24 wants to keep its audience ignorant.

      levit8 - 2011-08-26 17:19

      Hilary, Most News24 users understand what real democracy means and don't need them to point out the bleeding obvious. Its only the old Libyan regime, Egypt, Zim, Syria and the like where "democracy" is conducted Africa-style.

      msendi - 2011-08-26 17:30

      News24 is in business. They do everything they can to entice their audience…

      slg - 2011-08-26 17:33

      I agree with you on this, Hilary. The TNC and world powers are aware of the mistake made in Iraq, when the Bathists were excluded from government. Those among Gadhafi's people who truly decide to support the new dispensation should, and I expect will, form part of the new government. Are you still supporting the rape of Libyan women Hilary?

      Hilary Ojukwu - 2011-08-26 17:44

      slg, there are millions of Libyan women fighting on Gaddafi's side. Stop making up things.

      Dominic - 2011-08-26 17:51

      @Hilary fortunately neither you nor I are ignorant of the "all inclusive" call by the AU. The AU are overly proud of their roadmap - to the point where they are trying to force the Libyan people to follow it. The Libyan people quite clearly support the TNC in overwhelming numbers. They have their own well publicised roadmap which includes reconciliation. Perhaps the AU should prick their over-inflated ego's and follow the humility of their American, European and Asian counterparts who all say that it is up to the Libyans themselves to decide.

      john - 2011-08-26 17:56

      "Inclusive democracy" is tautologous because democracy is, by its nature, inclusive: everybody gets a vote. If Gaddafi supporters are not allowed to vote then it's not a democracy, doh. I understand that Africans might have become confused about this over the years, due to the various flavours of African "democracy" which allow everybody to vote - as long as it's for the government. But certainly, among Westerners, there is no confusion about what democracy is nor any reason to emphasise that people who don't support the government will still be allowed to vote and still be part of the democratic process.

      slg - 2011-08-26 17:58

      You're wrong Hilary. This will become clearer. But you're ignoring the fact that Libyan women are being raped into submission by Gadhafi's forces by order of Gadhafi himself.

      Worker - 2011-08-26 18:02

      All inclusive meaning Gadaffi controlled or manipulated. He spent billions on inciting and propogating murder worldwide, enough is enough.

      Valis - 2011-08-26 18:35

      @sig: I see you're spouting your ignorance again. Don't you ever learn? The so-called "mass rape" of women was completely made up. It was a complete and utter lie. Of course the media couldn't be bothered to print a retraction when it was shown after an investigation to be completely untrue. So stop spreading your dis-information, ignoramus.

      slg - 2011-08-26 19:06

      Have you forgotten Eman al-Obeidy? Did Steve Biko fall out of a window at John Vorster Square?

      fraidycat - 2011-08-26 19:23

      OK, Hilary, but must the Libyan people then wait like the Zimbabweans for their freedoms, while the AU dithers? Democracy will most probably ensure that both teams of supporters will get their say in elections. Is that not what the AU should push - elections as soon as possible - instead of withholding money and help???

      Phaedioux - 2011-08-26 20:04

      @Biko-Lives (aka Hilary Whatnot) - does it matter? There probably won't be too many Gaddafi supporters left.

      RandomDude - 2011-08-27 01:33

      Hilary, millions supporting him you say .. that's why he has mercs doing all the fighting for him ? Why didn't he allow political opposition & open elections then ? .. with all those millions of supporters he would have won I'd imagine.

  • MartinB - 2011-08-26 17:14

    His @rse must be REALLY sore sitting on that fence!

  • Mthandi111 - 2011-08-26 17:15

    The EU/US sponsored war against African is incorrect and the victors of such atrocities should not be recognised. Zuma is right at last he just waited to long to take a stand.

      Wes - 2011-08-26 17:29

      By your logic the ANC should not be in power because they waged a war against a legitimate National Party government. Please try and think just a little bit now.

      slg - 2011-08-26 17:30

      Mathandi, I think you missed the beginning of what happened in Libya. Did you not follow events in Tunisia and Egypt? Did you miss Gadhafi's rantings from his balcony and the killing, detaining and rape of civilians that he caused to try and hold onto power? Are you saying you supported Apartheid? Right now you're undermining the very forces bringing positive change to Libya, freeing Libyans from 40 years of oppression and securing them the right to vote. Right now your view is creating the exact opposite of what we fought for under Apartheid and that which is enshrined in the ANC Freedom Charter.:

      john - 2011-08-26 18:08

      The EU and US helped the ANC to overthrow apartheid via sanctions, isolation, sports boycotts, diplomatic pressure, etc. So, by your logic, the ANC should not be recognised either.

      Valis - 2011-08-26 18:37

      sig, stop spreading your lies and dis-information, you lying twat.

      slg - 2011-08-26 19:08

      This is an open forum, Valis. I'm free to express myself, as are you. This is more than Libyans had under the dictator Gadhafi.

      JWM24 - 2011-08-26 19:27

      @Valis - I rest my case - please see above!

      fraidycat - 2011-08-26 19:27

      Mthandi111, wow maybe you should stand up, let blood get to your forget that your mighty ANC also fought this kind of battle - so logically SA is also an illegitimate state??? Shame man, where have you been? This battle was between the Libyan people and they actually requested and got assistance. This was not the west taking over Libya...oh I give up...

      john - 2011-08-26 19:28

      Talking of spreading lies and misinformation, Valis, are you (or any of the other "America stole Iraq's oil" imbeciles) going to provide the information I asked for regarding US ownership of Iraqi oilfields? I've given several links over several threads over several days enlightening people about how Iraq's oil has been managed and who has benefited most (China and Russia mainly). I see that the conspiracy theorists are curiously reluctant to take me up on the discussion. Not that it stops them, of course. You find the same people in the next thread, mindlessly intoning "It's all about stealing the oil" again. And then calling anybody who disagrees with them "brainwashed sheep", LOLOLOL. If anybody is a brainwashed sheep, it's someone who takes his world view from They're obviously working under the assumption that if they repeat "it's all about stealing the oil" often enough, then it will come true. Nobody has stolen anything from Iraq. The Iraqi govt has driven EXTREMELY hard bargains with oil companies - so much so that many haven't even bid for oil rights in Iraq. But good for them. It's their oil, their income, their prospect of a brighter future, they have every right to drive a hard bargain on it. If they can find oil companies that agree to their terms, why not? That's how business works. Either way, the suggestion that Iraqi oil is now controlled by the US, or that US companies get special deals, is just so much hot air. Prove me wrong.

      Al - 2011-08-27 16:59

      Your right the EU/US should have left SA alone during the apartheid years and not bother about democracy and human rights. These guys fought for YOUR freedom you dumb-ass. Zuma and Malema et al doesn't give a damn about YOUR freedom. How grateful you are... Africa is poor because of stupid people like you keep bad people like Zuma in power.

      Neles - 2011-08-27 17:30

      @Wes and by your logic neither were the boers

  • letsee - 2011-08-26 17:16

    I don't think it matters. As usual the AU is out of synch with the rest of the world and I'm not a happy black African. Africa should learn from successful countries for itself is not an example to be followed. Thus what the AU does and says is only to the expense of Africa.

      slg - 2011-08-26 17:26

      Couldn't agree more, and bring it's own positive thoughts to the table, not these delusional, corrupt ones.

  • SolomonMagalefa - 2011-08-26 17:19

    Seems like a fair enough decision. I have been following this closely and it is clear that there are many differences between the various rebel factions. If they support the rebels now, then which faction should they actually support? There needs to be some form of "unity" government involving all role players. It's also by no means certain that pro-Gaddafi elements are finished. The AU cannot/should not support any interim movement unless there is certainty that there won't be a civil war.

      slg - 2011-08-26 17:25

      The world is supporting the TNC, which is a conglomeration of all the tribes.

      Lyndatjie - 2011-08-26 18:13

      Bravo Solomon! A lone sane voice in the sea of zuma-haters. I wish everybody here would just remove the name "zuma" from the article and understand the reasoning behind this decision. Rebels are not a government. Only once an ELECTION is held will an ELECTIVE GOVERNMENT be recognized. People - we need to stop lashing out at keywords and start applying comprehension.

      Valis - 2011-08-26 18:38

      Ah yes, the TNC. That would be the Al-Qaeda tribe, the Qatar tribe, the French tribe, the British tribe...

      john - 2011-08-26 18:40

      Solomon, there is no need for any unity government. There are many factions in the US too - people of British descent, Irish, Germans, Swedes, Italians, African-Americans, Hispanics, Mexican immigrants, Cuban refugees, Latin Americans, etc. There is no need to have an all-inclusive committee. They have two parties and the various different groups align themselves individually (via their vote) with one of those parties. Neither party is defined by race or creed or tribe. There is no "black" party or "Hispanic" party or "white" party. If Libyans align themselves with tribe over everything else, then democracy will be a failure there. The only reason democracy works is because it overcomes the mindset of "my tribe, right or wrong, uber alles". With democracy, the idea is to vote according to policies, not according to skin colour or tribal affiliation. If Libyans are going to vote according to tribal loyalties, then there's no need to hold an election. They already know which tribes exist and what numbers they have. So that is the election result. A democratic election is not a census. It should go a little further than merely determining how many voters there are in tribe X and how many in tribe Y. If that is all the Libyans care about, they are in no position for their vote to guide national policy and "democracy" will be a disaster.

      Dominic - 2011-08-26 18:59

      @lyndatjie - Problem is Zuma was blocking the release of funds needed to stabilize the country through transition. He threatened to continue blocking those funds unless the AU recognised the TNC. He changed his mind, as he does. It's the nature of the man - he's always two steps behind. Foresight is not one of his talents which is a problem for any "leader". The TNC is there, by definition, to prepare for the transition from dictatorship to democracy. The country and its economy couldn't wait until elections are held. Anyway that's over now, and the AU has lost even more of it's diminishing relevance.

      fraidycat - 2011-08-26 19:32

      So at least assist them to make a start at it - don't just sit back and say, NO money and NO help until you can conform to AU "standards". The AU should grow some balls and help to ensure elections are held asap. But guess its easier to do nothing...

      Alan - 2011-08-27 00:47

      SolomonMagalefa..You say "The AU cannot/should not support any interim movement unless there is certainty that there won't be a civil war." Wake up man! what do you call the current situation there, now. Fortunately it seems as if its almost over.. Oh Yes, and why would the international court issue a warrant against the tyrant and his top cronies if he had not committed "crimes against humanity" They had nothing to gain in doing this. He's been a ruthless tyrent for long enough.

  • vegetarian - 2011-08-26 17:21

    This decision deserves applause, especially that these so called rebels are now committing atrocities against innocent Libyan civilians. Not being recognised as a legitimate government is a serious blow to legitimacy hungry western paid mercenaries called TNC.

      slg - 2011-08-26 17:25

      The reported atrocities are not against civilians; they are against Gadhafi soldiers.

      George - 2011-08-26 17:26

      I think you should stop smoking your veggies...

      JWM24 - 2011-08-26 17:40

      Rhubarb! All this action (or rather inaction) will achieve is to create a power vacuum. You need something in place to take and keep control - who is going to do that, if not the TNC? Note, this is a "Transitional" arrangement, elections will follow

      Valis - 2011-08-26 18:41

      @sig: Wrong again! Go have a look around the net, there are hundreds of pictures reporting the atrocities perpetrated by the "rebels" on civilians. Although I suppose in your little fantasy world they simply don't exist. Moron.

      slg - 2011-08-26 19:10

      Depends on the sources, Valis, wouldn't you say. In any event, what point are you making? I am strongly opposed to all forms of hum a rights abuses. Even for war there are rules, and the Geneva Convention is clear. Your insults reflect an inner vileness and weakness.

      JWM24 - 2011-08-26 19:30

      @Valis - I rest my case...again!

      fraidycat - 2011-08-26 19:35

      @JWM24 - I think we are misunderstanding the AU's intentions - they want to start their own colonialisation, cause look at all the oil out their, the AU and their fat leaders need all the funds they can pilfer!

  • slg - 2011-08-26 17:24

    I understand the point JAcob is making, but it's immature. The whole idea of recognizing the TNC now is to make Gadhafi realize he's fighting for nothing. It can held end the fight.

  • levit8 - 2011-08-26 17:24

    People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, so the AU resorts to throwing marshmallows at these despots and dictators. Makes them REALLY effective and credible.

  • Foreigner - 2011-08-26 17:24

    Whether or not the African Union recognises the rebels is irrelevant and the wider world couldn't care less, and rightly so. The African Union is not known for solving problems but creating them. To prove its credibility why doesn't the AU solve the embarrassing privacy problem off the cost of Somalia or the drug trade along the west coast of Africa. Not forgetting the long-running Zim political stalemate? Well they can't, but only good at making daft statements where they are not welcomed. AU's interest in Libya is the cronyism AU leaders have long enjoyed from Qaddafi. Now that he is on the run the gravy train is all but over. A point ordinary and long suffering Libyans are all too well aware of and one that makes them bristle at any pronouncements coming from anywhere south of the Sahara.

      JWM24 - 2011-08-26 17:48

      Well said Foreigner! The AU is irrelevant - its agenda is biased; its responsiveness, reactive; its impact, counter-productive; its influence, negligible; and its presence on the world stage, merely tolerated.

      jm21 - 2011-08-26 18:20

      Actually this post doesn't make sense because all the countries involved are sovereign countries and there's nothing much AU or any other body can do apart from impose some kind of sanctions e.g Zimbabwe. As for Somali, the AU sponsored AMISOM is actually on the ground fighting the Al Shabab militants and is staffed by soldiers from Uganda and Burundi. You seem like another one of those types who believe nothing good comes from Africa, try to learn more bout African politics, could help you stop embarrassing yourself

      john - 2011-08-26 18:43

      I don't think there's a "privacy problem" off the coast of Somalia. Quite the opposite, in fact. Passengers on boats aren't getting quite the level of privacy that they'd hoped. :p

  • George - 2011-08-26 17:24

    Zuma..u either thick..or dont's coming your way...the people are "moeg"..

      will294 - 2011-08-28 14:46

      It is well known that he is thick - what other explanation is there?

  • maydayza - 2011-08-26 17:26

    So funny that Zuma thinks he is important enough for anyone to listen.

  • Mike Hoxbig - 2011-08-26 17:27

    By his logic, the ANC government should not have been recognised since '94, because "fighting is fighting".

  • nic - 2011-08-26 17:31

    For once I agree with old JZ. Never thought this day would come :) There has to be a free and fair election before any Libyan government should be recognised by anyone.

      RandomDude - 2011-08-27 01:57

      Someone needs to run the country until then

  • PAR - 2011-08-26 17:34

    Shame man Zuma is going to be short one dictator to do him favours so now he is peeved. What a pity Zimbabwe cannot do likewise but it is a sad fact that no global powers will help them cause they don't have any minerals worth saving.

      kurtvs - 2011-08-26 18:54

      OIL the keyword oil they were not too keen to intervene in Rwanda during the genocide and we all know why. Look at Iraq and Saddam it is all clear.

      john - 2011-08-26 19:09

      kurtvs, please supply us with details of what Iraqi oilfields are controlled by the US or by US oil companies. Either back up your lies with facts or stop posting propaganda and misinformation.

  • mcirha - 2011-08-26 17:40

    way to go..don't recognize the SAS, M15 and selfish interest driven vultures, the poor rebels think these care for them....AU remains central to the solution in the african country of libya by the way...

      Alan - 2011-08-27 01:04

      The AU is a bad joke.. Just look at the Zimbabwe problem. Worst of all is that Zuma is always backing the wrong horse..To me he is a worse joke and the worst leader S.A. has ever had. He is on par with that lunatic Mal Emmer

      will294 - 2011-08-28 14:44

      The AU couldn't organize a P... U. in a brewery. How can an person hold up the AU as the solution when the situation in Zimbabwe gives the lie to that !. The AU is indicative of the fuzzy thinking that pervades Africa and is why Africa is known globally as the failed continent

  • Lestor - 2011-08-26 17:41

    As if anyone cares what the AU thinks.

  • SlapTjip - 2011-08-26 17:44

    Does shower-head honestly believe the rebels gives a rats backside what he thinks. I suggest our beloved well educated president points his nose back towards the problems in Banana Africa. Before the ANC will not be recognised by the western world.

  • rustic - 2011-08-26 17:47

    SA government is consistant in supporting "Big Men" and other assorted dictators and despots, but it has blown back into their faces this time.

  • anfield - 2011-08-26 17:50

    greedy West, greedy Gaddiffi? You above all must recognise when it comes to greed, your fellow 'indiginites' can show the rest of Afrika how it's done.SA the compete finished article handed over to promary school level, recipe for disaster. To get shut of a man on the verge of committing genocide, the West were decades too late. Should have levelled him after Lockerbie.

  • renesongs - 2011-08-26 17:51

    I don't think that Libya give a tinkers f*rt about what AU after their truly "African" response to the drought and famine in Somalia

  • Worker - 2011-08-26 17:56

    I can see who's paying this piper.

  • Bill - 2011-08-26 18:02

    So the debating club continues to support a despotic dictator rather than democracy?

      RandomDude - 2011-08-27 02:41

      Yes, so much for their moral high ground.

  • burtfred - 2011-08-26 18:04

    Whatever the AU has decided in their talking-head chinwag get-togethers has never been of any consequence to anyone anyway. So who cares what JZ and his mates down at Dictators Club have to say? The AU are a waste of taxpayers money and should be scrapped entirely. Their list of previous leaders is a rogues gallery of corrupt, murderous and crooked dictators.

  • Benniten - 2011-08-26 18:06

    Ping and the corrupt au mafia will only support the evil. Au good for nothing

  • gatvol4corru - 2011-08-26 18:10

    Quite rich,coming from a terrorist,freedom-fighter! AU is known for being run by idiots that tend create more dark holes in Africa for western money.

  • longgone - 2011-08-26 18:10

    The African what. Zuma stand up your voice is muffled.

  • ITseller - 2011-08-26 18:11

    @Msendi - how is the WEST GREEDY here - a typical response from troubled Africa - blame the west - the problem is that Momar is an evil human and brutal dictator who oppressed his people, finally they had enough and rose up. The west - because they are good, democratic and respect freedom - used their resources to assist. As long as you continue to blame the west for every problem you will never see success on your continent - once you realize that parting with the west to bring justice and freedom to the world and stop supporting brutal dictators and corrupt leaders - then and only then will you see success. It makes sick that your jealousy of the WEST blinds your ability to see how evil the leaders in many nations of Africa are.

  • Godfrey - 2011-08-26 18:11

    I really believe the AU and the president need to address the problem in Zim, which is causing a problem in our country rather than worrying about Libya.

      slg - 2011-08-26 21:40

      They can do both. South Africa is a power-house. It's power is just being misused at the moment.

  • tootingdel - 2011-08-26 18:17

    It would be very interesting to see if the people who suppport Gaddafi in these comments would have been willing to live under his despotic regime. I doubt it. his regime was one of apartheid where his tribe benefitted and all the others did not. So my logical conclusion would be that the Gaddafi supporters were supporters of apartheid in South Africa. The so-called rebels in Libya are freedom fighters and therefore doing what the ANC did to overthrow the SA Nats party - so why doesn't the ANC support them? Seems when you come to power and become corrupt yourselves it is amazing how your position changes!!

      ITseller - 2011-08-26 18:24


  • Bess - 2011-08-26 18:22

    Sure! Violence is unacceptable in Libya. But its okay in Zimbabwe, in the DRC, in Angola, in Sudan, in Nigeria. In fact, wherever one of our brutha-despots is in charge, violence is A-OK!

      slg - 2011-08-26 18:26

      Yes, it's strange, isn't it. I think it comes from a sense of powerlessness. They don't know what to do or how to do it. But when an outside influence steps in, then they have a point of reference, and often it triggers this sense of powerlessness even more and they oppose that influence. SA did get it right with UN Resolution 1973 though.

  • Nesomaniac - 2011-08-26 18:25

    Zuma. Stop fiddling while you own 'Rome' burns! Who in the real world pays any attention to what the AU says or thinks?

  • 106SA - 2011-08-26 18:28

    Yes Zuma!!!No surprises!!!The AU only recognize and support DICTATORS like Mugabe.And that despot from Swaziland.And others!Your AU head himself, is a criminal.And so, the story continues, of how the African brothers(presidents) look after each other,in their quests for dominance,in those murderous,scandalous corrupt banana republics!!Viva la continue!!!VIVA LA USELESS!!

  • Hedda-Louise - 2011-08-26 18:32

    zuma is jy bedonnerd?just shows what kind of calibre the anc is made of! absolutely disgusting!

  • Die Bees - 2011-08-26 18:35

    The AU are turning a blind eye to the fact the Gaddafi unleashed his army on the people of Libya, that is why Nato got involved.

  • Boxxer - 2011-08-26 18:37

    STOP THE BUS... Jacob has something to say... F*** it! Bombs away!

  • nkhadi - 2011-08-26 18:44

    my lovely president, you guys need not to be the problem. you are busy shielding Mugabe in Zimbabwe and Mswati in Swaziland. what do you want us to do presidends of Africa. Europe and America will always be selective on an African issues because of you leaders. Act now against the African dictators before is too late.

  • Mafele - 2011-08-26 18:58

    AU must first earn repect. Otherwise, NATO and their friends will only see them as clowns. For serious issues, like NO FLY ZONE over Libya they consulted the individual states, not AU. As to why Zuma gave them a go ahead without first consulting with other AU members is anybody guess.

  • BryanJhb - 2011-08-26 19:01

    You not legitimate showerhead!

  • fraidycat - 2011-08-26 19:11

    Wow what a surprise...not - the AU only supports dictators. How quickly they forget how they pleaded for help to get out of Apartheid and now that the Libyans also want freedom, the AU will not help. AU = Scum of the earth???? Get what you want, but then be selective when it comes to assisting others into freedom!

  • OzzieCPT - 2011-08-26 19:15

    Mr President - quiet please.

  • witboy - 2011-08-26 19:22

    This is why we cannot get zimabawe right the boys club wont let it happen Gadafi purchased arms from sa therefore the leaders are big connections.

  • witboy - 2011-08-26 19:23

    Funny how they are terroist one day and then think they can run the world the next

      StoneAngel - 2011-08-27 16:35

      Sounds like the ANC - terrorists one day next they are trying to govern but are screwing up the RSA!

  • rasklot - 2011-08-26 19:24

    Zuma and AU, I gather that you are fully aware that there are many African men on Gaddafi’s payroll brought in from other African countries to fight against its own Libyan people. Take these “pay to kill thugs” out of the equation and whats left? A handful of hopefuls brain washed and or paid to fight their own people. Get back on the tax payers plane and come home and sort our own back yard out first before getting involved with matters that should not concern you.

  • SP - 2011-08-26 19:26

    To all the blind people screaming about Gadaffi's human rights violations and that NATO are the knights in shining armour. Wake the $#$% up! If NATO really was that concerned about the Libyan people's welfare, would they be bombing residential districts in Tripoli? People are incredibly gullible to believe that NATO is there for the good of the people. They couldn't care any less about the people of Libya. They're there for profit and profit alone. The AU are actually the ones making the right decisions at the moment.

      Phillip - 2011-08-26 20:34

      SP, What profit are you talking about. How much do you think this operation by NATO cost all the participating countries. The operations were sanctioned by the United Nations thus are legal in global terms. Strange how Italy and all the Imperialist NATO countries have started to give the TNC billions in frozen Libyan assets. People of Libya need these assets to rebuild Libya. These are humane acts that are positive. The entire GCC and 90% of the Arab states and neighbours support these initiatives. Who are we in the southern tip of Africa to contradict the world majority point of view.

      slg - 2011-08-26 21:42

      They're not. They're surgically targeting Gadhafi's military resources. This is not perfect though. Mistakes happen. I know this sounds trite when human lives are concerned, but what would you rather do: let Gadhafi slaughter Libyans to stay in power for another 40 years and loot more billions from the Libyan people?

      ITseller - 2011-08-27 16:03

      Wow! why bother with people like SP. This is costing the US and NATO over 20billion $. Wake up! IS it possible NATO and the US actually are trying to help innocent people? To you SP - no - becasue you are brainwashed into thinking NATO and the US are all bad and you and your corrupt commarades are always right.

  • Valis - 2011-08-26 19:36

    @JWM24: You are most certainly entitled to your own opinion, but you are most certainly not entitled to your own facts. If you look at my comments you will see I offer no opinions, neither pro- or anti-Ghadaffi, I just keep pointing out the lies and falsehoods being spread by the media and people such as yourself, either deliberately for propaganda purposes or through ignorance. You simply can't go spouting off about a subject you only have the vaguest and most tenuous grasp of, like you actually know what you are talking about, when you only get your information from one or two sources that are only reprinting baseless rumours and speculation as if they are fact. That is simply wicked. What you should do is try and get back to the source as closely as possible and see what the original report said, which is what I like to do. I have no doubt if you do that you will be flabbergasted at the way the media twist, spin, mis-report and flat out lie about a lot of events happening around the world. I know it must be difficult for all the obedient little sheep to believe that they are being lied to on a daily basis. Please open your eyes and look beyond the surface and start thinking for yourself, instead of swallowing everything you are told without question! Once again, I'm not saying Ghadaffi's a saint, but I draw the line at letting the predatory, imperialist West get away with such outrageous lies; That simply goes against the grain.

      Phillip - 2011-08-26 20:06

      Yes Valis, you are so right...these reports about hundreds of Libyans and Tunisians fleeing in boats to Italy and Greece is all just Western propaganda. The true facts are that it is boatloads of Italians and Greegs heading to Tunisia and well as the thousands of Spaniads heading to Morroco or the hundreds of Yemenis and Saudi citazens trying to get into Ethiopia and Somalia...This famine in the horne of Africa is just Western propoganda to try and show this region in a poor light...Yes Valis when will these blind pro imperialists ever see the truth...Don't they know that the Pope is a Zionist bigot...I admire your periscope of world events...

      slg - 2011-08-26 21:44

      The pointing out that you do is expressing your opinion. And clearly you have a core belief about "the Imperialist West" which in itself is an opinion, a largely faulty one at that. What about the Arab League and Turkey's involvement? And what about Tunisia and Egypt?

      slg - 2011-08-26 21:45

      Geez, Phillip, that is truly way out there, cloud cookoo-land.

      JWM24 - 2011-08-27 15:45

      @Valis - I have absolutely no problem with you presenting an alternative view and thereby contributing to the richness of the debate. My issue with you is your attitude towards anyone who dares express an opinion which is different to yours, particularly when you believe that you have license to hurl insults at them. As for your statement that I am "...spouting off about a subject (you) only have the vaguest and most tenuous grasp of, like you actually know what you are talking about..." what gives you the right to such a judgement call? You know absolutely nothing about me, and what I do or know about, particularly in regard to the situation in Libya. I may be the British Under-Secretary for African Affairs for all you know! And herein lies the real problem - you condemn others for believing in their sources, while you are guilty of doing exactly the same thing! And even if both you and I were reading from exactly the same source, that does not mean we would arrive at the same conclusion. It all depends on your particular frame of reference and agenda, which becomes fairly obvious when you start using phrases like "...the predatory, imperialist West..."! So, if you want to participate in a forum such as this, you should begin by recognising that others may be just as well-informed as you, but hold a different viewpoint or perspective. If you cant do this, then rather not engage with others, but talk to yourself - you'll find no dissension that way!

  • Valis - 2011-08-26 19:39

    @JWM24: You are most certainly entitled to your own opinion, but you are most certainly not entitled to your own facts. If you look at my comments you will see I offer no opinions, neither pro- or anti-Ghadaffi, I just keep pointing out the lies and falsehoods being spread by the media and people such as yourself, either deliberately for propaganda purposes or through ignorance. You simply can't go spouting off about a subject you only have the vaguest and most tenuous grasp of, like you actually know what you are talking about, when you only get your information from one or two sources that are only reprinting baseless rumours and speculation as if they are fact. That is simply wicked. What you should do is try and get back to the source as closely as possible and see what the original report said, which is what I like to do. I have no doubt if you do that you will be flabbergasted at the way the media twist, spin, mis-report and flat out lie about a lot of events happening around the world. I know it must be difficult for all the obedient little sheep to believe that they are being lied to on a daily basis. Please open your eyes and look beyond the surface and start thinking for yourself, instead of swallowing everything you are told without question! Once again, I'm not saying Ghadaffi's a saint, but I draw the line at letting the predatory, imperialist West get away with such outrageous lies; That simply goes against the grain.

      Phillip - 2011-08-26 20:21

      Valis, I have worked and travelled the entire GCC region since 2005 and am presently in the city of Yanbu next to the Red Sea. I provide services to the petro-chemical industies in the region. If you have not lived in an Arab country to understand the culture, religious beliefs and thinking of the average arab, then it is dangerous to comment about the politics of the region. The Arab countries are a huge tapestry of interwoven history that goes back at least 1800 years and goes beyond borders....Beyond kings and kingdoms, beyond dictators and oppressors. Pull a strand loose in the tapestry and one will find that an event in one country quickly cascades into another eg. The so-called Arab Spring

      JWM24 - 2011-08-27 15:52

      @Valis - you see what I mean about others being just as well informed? You should read what Phillip has to say with a measure of respect for his opinion as here is a man who obviously has some experience of the environment and issues facing Libya. That way you may learn something new and enrich yourself - providing that you keep an open mind, which unfortunately from the evidence, seems unlikely