News24

AfriForum miffed after SABC says no to ad

2012-06-04 19:34

Johannesburg - Television channel SABC3 is refusing to air a video calling on South Africans to take a stand against certain ANC policy proposals, AfriForum said on Monday.

"SABC3 has rejected a video that civil rights group AfriForum wanted to air on the channel as a paid advertisement," said spokesperson Ernst Roets.

"Last week we got a message from a staff member at the office of the operations manager [that] the advert is putting the ANC down and the SABC doesn't want to be seen putting the ANC or any other party down," he said.

The video entitled ANC, the conmen, alleges that the ANC plans to make fundamental changes to the Constitution.

AfriForum approached SABC3 on 13 April to ask if the video could be aired as a one-off during the 19:00 news on a Tuesday, Roets said.

The broadcasting of the two-minute video would have been paid for by AfriForum.

Roets said the SABC initially agreed, but three days later told AfriForum it could not show the advert and would not give its reasons.

After AfriForum complained, it was told last week it was not the SABC's policy to broadcast adverts criticising political parties, Roets said.

SABC spokesperson Kaizer Kganyago said AfriForum was "just climbing on the Nando's bandwagon".

He was referring to the public broadcaster's refusal to air an advert by fast-food outlet Nando's that mocked xenophobia.

The SABC said it contravened the Electronic Communications and Transactions Act and the Advertising Standards Authority Act.

Kganyago said AfriForum had not spoken to anyone in the central SABC sales division which dealt with all advertising sales for the broadcaster.

"I realise that they don't even know how the SABC works. There is no ways SABC would talk to them about sales. We have a central sales division...

"They are using the SABC to publicise their own issues."

Awareness campaign

Roets said AfriForum was disappointed by the SABC's decision, but would use social media to get its message across.

"The video is not hate speech and it's a paid for advert. If the SABC is advertising something, it doesn't mean it has their stamp on it, they are offering a service for advertisers.

"It may be controversial, but there is nothing wrong when it comes to freedom of expression," Roets said.

The video suggests that the ANC plans to amend the Constitution to remove the right to private land ownership. It contains selected excerpts from ANC policy documents to make its point.

A number of the references refer to ANC discussion documents to be debated at the party's policy conference later this month.

If adopted at the policy conference, they would then still need to be ratified at the ANC elective conference in Mangaung in December.

AfriForum hoped the video would put pressure on the ANC from civil society.

"It's an awareness campaign to make people aware of what the ANC national democratic revolution is all about," Roets said.

He said people should be aware that the ANC was considering changing the Constitution.

"It's more than just a Constitution, it's an embodiment of an agreement.

"If the ANC were to change the Constitution, not just small changes but drastic and fundamental changes... it amounts to a breach of the peace agreement."

Comments
  • Godfried - 2012-06-04 19:49

    And they call themselves an independent broadcaster. Why should we pay their license fees?

      Jack - 2012-06-04 19:55

      They simply can't take the truth.

      TSOTSI Smilification - 2012-06-04 20:04

      SABC IS UNDER STATE CONTROL. THEY WOULD NOT AIR THAT KIND OF ADVERT! Haven't you noticed the SABC does not give the DA and other opposition parties as much airtime as they do to the ANC. Remember the ANC and Cosatu march? They never aired Zille's speech that got interupted, but showed a whole segment of VAVI mouthing off? The ANC has got Zuma's spear so far into SABC it's like listening to propoganda 24/7 in 11 different languages ! SHm... They should try Naspers: MNET, DSTV, NEWS24, DIE BEELD, CITY PRESS. VIVA DEMOCRACY! VIVA DA! VIVA COPE!

      rowen.loretz - 2012-06-04 20:54

      I don't pay my TV license - will never cause there is sh*t on it anyways. Maybe if i could see some cool Nando's adverts I would pay mine.... But the ANC will eventually take all our rights away as we edge closer to a %*#)_ dictatorship country. I will burn the SA flag too if that happens. I think people are really starting to get gatvol of this cowardly government. People are starting to feel ashamed of their own country and I am not the only one.

      grant.hide - 2012-06-04 21:09

      Hello internet, Whoop whoop. Who watches TV? lol.

      Koos - 2012-06-05 08:02

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn9ycRP2Wro

      eric.vanvuuren - 2012-06-05 09:21

      Because if you don't, they have this huge Lawyer on a steeeck, and he will try and intimidate you into setting a trend (president) which is not just unfair, but seriously wrong in the sense that, they are allowed to use the law to extort money from people who happen to believe that the "law" should have a primary function above all others; to protect its' citizens and make politicians and corporation change the way they think and operate around its' citizens. No more profit chasing. Abolish the concept of credit, loan, Dept, corporate, etc, to Living freely with no brain washing from television.

      eric.vanvuuren - 2012-06-05 09:47

      @Jack - no man they simply can't air the truth. They are the anc' publicly funded private broadcaster.

      Junebugg - 2012-06-05 14:27

      I wonder if anyone take these clowns serious...Afri-forum are a bunch of idiots. Their views are so one sided and narrow minded.

  • goyougoodthing - 2012-06-04 19:50

    The filthy lies and deceit of the ANC and their minions, eroding the fabric of democracy faster than whiskey gets the panties off of a whore.

  • christian.helberg - 2012-06-04 19:51

    no worries Afriforum, put it on youtube and let us know via facebook we will all share it on facebook, and ask our friends etc to do the same, it will be global then.

  • marko.miladinovic.52 - 2012-06-04 19:54

    Just more proof of the state run National Broadcsters democratic agenda. Well done to Afriforum, these undemocratic practises are being more and more exposed.

      Kanetso Michael Moleeko - 2012-06-04 20:18

      To HELL with afriforum and its morons!

      Tankiso Mogoje - 2012-06-04 20:25

      You can even give out some flyers and see who cares marko.To hell with your Afriforum

      goyougoodthing - 2012-06-04 20:26

      Kanetso, I hope there never comes a day when you want to say something and realise it's too late... When a government takes away one freedom it invariably wants to take away all of them.

      bertie.brink - 2012-06-04 20:51

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17m8OnHC7dQ&feature=youtu.be for the black people who hate us whites so much have a look dont be lazy!

      phillip.havenga - 2012-06-04 21:13

      Kanetso and Tankiso to hell with you and your idiocy, you little muppets.

  • dewaldmontgomery - 2012-06-04 19:54

    No, what really bothers the SABC, is that the 'masses' will learn that the ANC have NOT achieved 'freedom' on its own, but by accord of a majority of NP voters who SUPPORTED negotiated peace. NEGOTIATED PEACE AGREEMENT. Which means, the very fact that the ANC is talking about its 'second revolution', the very fact that they complain 'how they would never have settled for this or that', implies the original AGREEMENT is null and void, which renders SA back into a state of war, which will hardly benefit anyone, but may let the ANC loose its grip, the support of its 'international allies' (yes, those 'colonialists' who 'helped' the struggle through financial means to advance their own agenda). That of course gives both radical blacks and white a mandate to engage (military speaking). That's what the SABC, and ultimately, the ANC is afraid of. Particularly considering earlier reports THIS YEAR that the defense force would hardly be able to protect this country against an enemy - foreign, or domestic.

      schalk.mattheys - 2012-06-05 09:47

      “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!” Franklin, Benjamin

      nigel.burgess.52 - 2012-06-05 10:04

      Yes the referendum is a terribly inconvenient truth for the ANC.

  • Lacrimose - 2012-06-04 19:55

    Wonder which organsation's going to take them to court? This is censorship and political bias. Every day I think things can't get any crazier. Every day I'm proved wrong!

  • mogomotsi.sello.9 - 2012-06-04 20:02

    WE WON'T BE AFRAID TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION IF IT IS NOT TRANSFORMIMG OUR LIVES...Y HAVE A TOOL THAT IS NOT WORKING FOR THE MASS...WE ARE NOT APOLOGETIC AT ALL......

      Brad.Kopping - 2012-06-04 20:23

      You are the only tool thats on this post xD

      jruppersberg - 2012-06-04 21:07

      You better get off your madam's PC before she catches you... Garden boy jobs are hard to find...

      IcemanGP - 2012-06-05 06:58

      Not transforming your life?, What, you expect everything for free? I see more black people today driving luxury cars than ever before, ... what, you got no friends to give you a cushy BEE job, where you do fkk all but get paid a sh*t load.

      ro.jhb.1 - 2012-06-05 07:15

      Mogo if you think the constitution is the roadblock to a better life then you are seriously misinformed. Its a peace of paper - Do you think changing it will give you a job? You live in a delusional state

      Ntshobs - 2012-06-05 08:01

      This constitution was drafted & passed by people so if there's a need to change it , why not? We have people who are only happy when things favours them(minority mostly reach liberals) and compromises others.

      Merven - 2012-06-05 08:33

      Typical African thinking, there is a reason why Africa will ALWAYS be a third world country.

      nigel.burgess.52 - 2012-06-05 10:06

      There is nothing in this creation that will work for the masses until they themselves understand the meaning and principles of democracy.

      lerato.kay.3 - 2012-06-05 11:11

      Whats the point of keeping the constitution that’s not working for the masses, this is a living document and must be changed to suit the times. To show how many SA want this change the government must run a referendum and see how people are waiting for  drastic changes in the constitution. At the same time we need to see a true representation of SA on the bench, all courts that is because at the moment there are biased towards one race and we all know which one

      Sharon - 2012-06-05 19:58

      it dosent matter what constitution this country has,under anc rule the black masses will never have anything,this world is not a zoo where the inhabitants get fed daily,you have to grow a brain and be prepared to work to succeed,if you cant do that and want to carry on the way you are then please stay out of my dustbins

  • zolisa.dlokovu - 2012-06-04 20:05

    Although I do not agree with what the Afriforum was planning to do but I find it very difficult to understand why is it okay to mention Polokwane resolutios-govt. print media advert-Mr G Nkwinti's dept. but this org is not allowed to use the SABC to express their views. I dont think allowing parties to criticise each other in an advert will address problems facing as a country.Some parties will not afford to pay for tv adverts.They are very expensive

  • jason.joao - 2012-06-04 20:11

    Thanks SABC! Viewed, and shared :) Probably wouldn't have happened otherwise!

  • louise.minnie - 2012-06-04 20:11

    This country is becoming like Cuba where everyone jumps on boats to be free. This is definitly not a free country.

  • Richard - 2012-06-04 20:16

    I think people should not panic, ANC will be history soon. My hope is on the fact that divions in the party are deepning. There will be considerable no. Of votes the DAwill get in the next elections even in deep rural areas of transkei like where I am

      TSOTSI Smilification - 2012-06-04 20:27

      Kanetso - You make no sense! STFU

      meleli.mathebula - 2012-06-04 20:45

      In your dreams..

  • sakhi.TheNextKent.dlala - 2012-06-04 20:33

    Between AfriForum and SABC...I cant take any of them seriously, both are pathetic losers. Thank You.

      phillip.havenga - 2012-06-04 21:21

      kinda like your comment.

      nigel.vanysendyk - 2012-06-05 08:29

      have to agree there

  • Andrew - 2012-06-04 20:45

    Like afriforum or not, however if it wasn't for afriforum and other parties we would never find out about what's really happening in government. It's healthy to know what's happening. If you want to walk around blind you'll break your face. Rather see where we're going. Viva democracy, viva all parties that voice their views and opinions. Viva south Africa.

      JohncarlosBiza - 2012-06-05 01:37

      Agreed. You don't have to like the messenger to appreciate the message

  • jruppersberg - 2012-06-04 20:46

    The SABC is owned by the state and is thus owned and controlled by the ANC. For this reason I will not pay one more cent in TV license fees. They can all go f*ck themselves....

      mtizozo.nsele - 2012-06-04 21:22

      Not suprise from afrifroraaam. Even an old blind magogo can seen die agenda for these idiots. They still canthin bilive theit time is over. You still bring all your crab apartaid derty kark trics. Nxxxxxxxxaaaaaaahhhh.

      jruppersberg - 2012-06-04 21:26

      Mtizozo. Learn to spell before making idiotic comments on a public forum.

      Kirchner Van Deventer - 2012-06-04 23:30

      Charles, I couldn't care less what the colour or sex of my president is, as long as he or she is capable of running an effective and progressive government that takes the interests of all its citizens into account. I don't care about the racial demographic of government, as long as it's transparent and corruption free. If you really think all this hullabaloo is about getting a white person in the presidential seat again, then you really are narrow-minded.

      nigel.burgess.52 - 2012-06-05 10:59

      Kirchner Van Deventer - Exactly. The 'revolutionaries' are so scared we're pushing for a 'White Government', when in fact we just want an honest Government with the b#%ls to stand up for true democracy for all S/Africans. An added advantage would also be one without corruption. But, they'll never understand.

  • Shirley Van Heerden - 2012-06-04 20:57

    Just as you think it can't get any weirder- here we have it again!!! First artistic cencorship (I am against public display of nudity by the way, but do stand for freedom of speech) and now the censorship of a political statement. I wonder where this was when the Julius Malema made crap out of the ANC leadership. No really guys, One rule for all, this is not constitutional. In fact it is discrimanatory.

  • zama.mhlongo.14 - 2012-06-04 21:02

    Why not go to eNews (eTV) Afriforum? I think this was intentional from Afriforum, they purposefully targeted the SABC. Well Mnr. Afriforum some of us can think you know and we can judge. This plot of yours is just a political stance, and the agenda that you have hidden will come out soon and very soon my friends.

      Andrew - 2012-06-04 21:09

      They may have done this on purpose to proof a point about freedom of speech. Thought about that? If someone says something that you disagree with, must we remove their freedom to say it? Sounds a little like the government you hated. Doesn't it.

  • grant.hide - 2012-06-04 21:02

    So you have to be on a band wagon to know the truth? Utter rubbish, They should climb off these gravy trains and start taking their jobs seriously.

  • Henk - 2012-06-04 21:04

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17m8OnHC7dQ&feature=youtu.be

  • malcolm.oconnor.58 - 2012-06-04 21:05

    Initially they agreed to air the advert,3 days later refused to , wouldn't give reasons , typical "AFRICAN NATIONAL CROOKED" democracy , independant broadcasters my ar....e !

  • Sidney Gilroy - 2012-06-04 21:12

    Whites under-estimate the power of the intellectuals amongst the black population. Just as we aren't all Flag waving AWB members...neither are they sheepish rock-throwing ANC members. They fear a totalitarian state as much as we do. It is time we put race aside and JOIN each other in fighting for South Africa's future and the future of our children. I dare you : The next protest against E-tol...JOIN them.

      Andrew - 2012-06-04 21:14

      Nail on the head. The minority of both colours hate each other. The rest of us see the future

      Charnelle - 2012-06-04 21:24

      Sidney your fabulous!! Lets do this!

      mtizozo.nsele - 2012-06-04 21:31

      That cannot stop if were still havel stpid organisaatio like afriforumm. They pull this country backwards. They confuse the portion of remaining minority in this country. I fil dey area die bigest enemy of this country. They cannoy be disbandled for good.

      Andrew - 2012-06-04 21:44

      Mtizozo. You fit in the minority I'm talking about. Let's work together for the future. You can't push against a wall and expect to go through the door. Rather open the door and find opertunities

      Johann - 2012-06-04 22:55

      Greate comment on all counts.

      Ivan Overton - 2012-06-04 23:50

      I agree - most of us, regardless of race or religion, want exactly the same things. And most of us are basically good at heart. We just need to find better ways to talk (and listen) in order to find the common ground that already exists. The ravings of the racist trolls (of all races) that also sometimes pop up here are not representative of the majority at all - just like a drunk at a bar, they just talk louder and are heard more than they deserve.

      JohncarlosBiza - 2012-06-05 01:33

      Great comment. The white numbnuts(esp online) feel they are entitled to hurl racial garbage and support simple-minded people each time something bad happens(eg recent Delmas murder). They don't get that they alienate themselves from the black folk you talk about with attitudes like that. Unfortunately, the simple-minded ANC stone-throwing folk are always waiting in the wings for 'I told you so about whites' comments. In a country of mistrust, I'd think a sober, rational prrson who wants some kind of improvement would hold back on furthering the mistrust through showing bigotry and prejudice to a wide audience. Just recently, a News24 paid columnist wrote arrogantly about how as qn Englishman he doesn't care for local languages and went on to rant and boast about his ignorance and bigotry. How someone can promote such backwards thinking when we are meant to foster unity is beyond me.

      nigel.burgess.52 - 2012-06-05 10:15

      JohncarlosBiza - speaking of backwards thinking......

  • cylvesta.tshungu - 2012-06-04 21:28

    Ther is a fine line btn critisizm and the truth.

  • Michael - 2012-06-04 21:36

    cant have the sheeple seeing this...keep the voters dumb wena

      nigel.burgess.52 - 2012-06-05 11:01

      Yip - that's how desperate they have become. I mean honestly what kind of party are we dealing with when they refuse to face historical facts, the one thing that could just unite us.

  • Mike Purchase - 2012-06-04 21:48

    You can run but you cannot hide,the always need candles are so caught up in their own rubbish that they are going to fall.

  • Mike Purchase - 2012-06-04 22:16

    Another insecure agent going ballistic here mind you dont murder yourself you damn fool,wake up and smell the coffee the world belongs to everyone not only you arrogant brainless let me rather not say.

  • cheslin.white.7 - 2012-06-04 22:26

    Why agree and then backtrack. The Sabc needs the revenue though.

  • ro.jhb.1 - 2012-06-05 07:14

    Thank goodness we dont need the SABC to show how useless the ANC is

  • eric.martinsich - 2012-06-05 07:19

    Afriforum is a far white wing group that "HATES" the idea that the black majority runs this country. The previous white masters (mainly afrikaners) took land through various means. They lived off the milk and honey of this land. Now Afriforum who is actually Solidarity trade union in disguise, supports Freedom front and Orania(white homelands). Their whole focus is racist and now looking for Brownie points.

      Merven - 2012-06-05 08:54

      Correction: Afriforum hates the idea that the black majority is ruining this country.

  • Charles - 2012-06-05 07:37

    ANC knows that the advert will expose them but don't worry AfriForum they do a good job exposing themself with there incompetence and corrupt actions

  • johannes.modise2 - 2012-06-05 07:54

    But the story is not clear AFRIFORUM must follow SABC SOP that all people!!

  • paul.papenfus - 2012-06-05 08:21

    This looks like the ad that was refused http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn9ycRP2Wro

  • mkgatla3 - 2012-06-05 08:32

    Afrikaaners knows exactly that SABC belong to govenment thus it belongs to ANC.....So stop messing arround with your racist adverts!

      schalk.mattheys - 2012-06-05 10:01

      What is racist about this advert?

  • badballie - 2012-06-05 10:22

    SABC needs to be disbanded and their buildings torn down and plough'd back into the ground, The SABC has never been anything more than a government spokesperson, and a drain on the resources of the population. There is not valid reason for the need to pay TV license fees or any other fees for that matter, e-tv has more than proved that without any license fee and only making money from advertisers they are able to provide a much better service and show lineup. Why pay for no existent service just so that the "spears" at the SABC can pay for their DSTV.

  • lerato.kay.3 - 2012-06-05 11:01

    People on this forum are always saying the never watch SABC because it is just another ANC mouth piece and their boring programmes. Given that so you should actually be glad that this good advert won’t be associating with a loser channel. In as much as I have read from most comments here nobody watches SABC so why bother. Let the people who loves SABC decide what they want to watch. I suggest they flight the advert on DStv Indian bouquet

  • Ivy - 2012-06-05 11:48

    A new apartheid movement has been formed the afriforum. You will never take us back.

  • Voiceinthedesert.co.za - 2012-06-05 12:29

    And the SABC says it is not influenced by the government. lies lies lies, they must all go to hell i'm sick off this country and its double standards.news 24 also they keep removing comments damn idiots don't like hearing the truth

  • Dee - 2012-06-05 13:28

    Maybe it's not being aired because of the production quality? I've watched the youtube version 2x - and it left me cross-eyed and confused. What is the message they are trying to put across????????

  • mzwakhe.mbuyazi - 2012-06-05 13:37

    Is there any white South African who has one good thing to say about South African Government? I mean...its your Government too u know.Working together we can do more.

      Kevin - 2012-06-05 13:58

      I used to think like this. I used to try giving credit where it's due, but its not long before im once more disappointed by how each and every one of 'our' government officials are pretty in it for themselves, their friends and buddies - not the puclic. a) Telecommunication - FAIL b) Policing & Security - FAIL c) Education - FAIL d) .. The list goes on. And now there are rumors that 'our' government wants to take what some have worked their whole entire lifes for and give it to others in the name of equality. Im sorry, but i dont see why i have to give away what ive sacrificed blood, sweat and tears for to those that dont even want to try - but of course to have this word spread until its too late (and its been implemented) is taboo and will get blocked. Why?

  • mzwakhe.mbuyazi - 2012-06-05 15:28

    kevin, cant say i know how you feel but my grand father does.It happened to him in the early 20s...for real. He and other residents were moved away from a very productive land they owned, simply beause the "superior race guy" wanted the land for himself. To cut a long story short, Im now told that the grand son of the "superior race guy" (who inherited the land)is now selling the land for R43m to some developers.????????It seems that this "injustice" has been going on for a long time, but what can we do.

      Dee - 2012-06-05 17:28

      Yes - true in both farming and city suburbia. I have friends who were forced to buy only in "segregated areas". They made a beautiful home - but would now like to retire and buy an equally high quality but smaller place closer to good amenities for their old age. The truth is - the property value in their "non white" suburb remains MUCH lower than in former "white" areas - so they cannot afford to move. I don't know what the solution to this is - but I'm sad that it hampers 'integration".

  • Ricus - 2012-06-05 18:00

    Maar die ANC mag maak soos hulle wil? Dit is uit en uit Rassistiese beleid!

      Ricus - 2012-06-06 10:10

      Wie dra die meeste Kapitaal by tot die Land, natuurlik die Wittes en hulle is in die minderheid, wanneer gaan die Swartes hulle bydra vergroot dat die proporsie Kapitale bydrae met die meerderheid, persentasie gewys, hulle bydra balanseer? Ek sou glo indien dit die geval was sou ek kon verstaan dat die ANC meer beheer het, maar ons moet ons beheer terug gegee word want uiteraard het ons baie meer vir die land gedoen as wat hulle ooit in hulle termyn, hoe lank dit ookal mag wees, gaan lewer. Resultate is uiteindelik die vertoonvenster van aksie!!!! Hulle het 'n loergat geskep en gedink dit bevredig ons, beslis nie! Hulle het gefaal en dit begin nou daagliks deurdring tot mense, lees maar net die koerante, hulle probeer alles in hul vermoë om die DA te verneder, maar hulle is deeglik nie bewus van Helen Zille se veggees nie. En sou 'n oorlog uitbreek sal ons Wittes baie vinnig ammunisie kan bekom, ons het immers die kanale, die distribusie sal uiteraard ook vinnig behartig kan word. Julle mag dink ek het 'n rasistiese uitkyk, maar toe ek klein was het ek as 6 jarige in Weltevredenpark koeldrank enn hoenderlewer uit my ouers se yskas/vrieskas geneem en aan die swart konstruksie werkers oorkant ons woning verkoop, sou ek kon, het ek saam met hulle gebraai, anders het hulle my kos vir my huis toe gebring. Ek het ons huishulp met respek behandel want dit was in my kultuur en het selfs haar seun gered in ons swembad van verdrinking. ANC julle het my denke gevorm met julle optrede!!!

  • rakoma.thabiso - 2012-06-05 18:18

    i hv watchd SABC 4 almost al of my lyf bt i hv naver seen an advert critising other political parities.ths is madnes!!

  • Mondli - 2012-06-05 18:26

    I HATE this BoerForum, they must burn in Hell

  • Cuteandbronzed - 2012-06-07 00:19

    '' To remove the right to private landownership'' Dead!# If I were white Id be packing like serioulsy white people You guys cant complian when it happens the writtings on the wall sreioulsy Im not being mean! Forced removals are around the corner for whites I mean think about your children, your families just leave people why do you want to live in a country that hates you just go! On another note umm Im vating ANC next elections whos with me? hands up everybody! Win Anc Win Win ! YAY

  • freeman.freeman.501 - 2012-09-22 10:37

    The SABC is a propaganda machine, just like the BBC is. It is designed to control peoples minds. The problems that we are facing today in south africa were planned by the NWO; of which QE2 is the head of. Come check out her crimes against humanity here: jahtruth.net/britmon.htm. Please watch 7/7 Ripple effect 2 and the Nazi bankster crimes documentary here http://JforJusitce.net for proof of just how corrupt the British government is. Now ask yourself, why did Zuma visit the Queen [behind closed doors???] Google it for yourself.

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