News24

Death penalty won't reduce crime - Zuma

2011-12-15 16:48

Pretoria - There is no credible evidence to prove that re-introducing the death penalty in South Africa will reduce crime, President Jacob Zuma said on Thursday.

"I do not think there is justice in killing another human being," he said at the official opening of the revived Gallows Memorial at the Pretoria Central Prison.

"Quite often I hear commentators saying bring back the death penalty to combat crime. Our Constitution prioritises the right to life and dignity, and the good judges did well to abolish it."

He said those advocating capital punishment did not understand how it felt to be on death row. South Africa did not need to kill people to prove crime was wrong, he said.

"We can be tough on crime without executing people. Our police will continue to use effective methods to make our communities safer."

He assured the families of the political prisoners who were executed that government would make contact with them "to look at the difficulties they are facing".

Two members from each of the slain prisoners' families had been brought to Pretoria to take part in a two-day "cleansing" ceremony which began on Wednesday.

Zuma said all South Africans had contributed to the attainment of freedom and many lives had been sacrificed in the process.

52 steps

The gallows at the prison, now known as the C Max Correctional Centre, was dismantled in 1996. The memorial museum was erected to honour 134 political prisoners executed there during apartheid.

Zuma, accompanied by several government ministers and ANC leaders, walked the 52 steps leading to the execution chamber, where he was briefed by correctional services commissioner Tom Moyane.

Moyane said 4 300 people went through the hangman's noose, the majority of them common law criminals.

Said Zuma: "We hope this occasion contributes to bring closure and healing to the families [of the executed prisoners]. They should remember that their beloved ones made huge sacrifices for the country."

Prison warders

He paid tribute to the prison warders who served in the gallows, saying they were abused by the apartheid system.

"I want to recognise the prison warders who worked in the execution room, some of whom I'm told were recruited at tender ages of 16 and 17. We all need to walk the path of healing together."

Zuma was happy that some of them were still employed by correctional services and willing to share their experiences.

"Government will assist the officers in the healing process," he said. Correctional Services Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula said the project had to be done despite the financial cost, which could not be disclosed.

"The TRC [Truth and Reconciliation Commission] did not give an opportunity to the families of those who were executed to speak out," Mapisa-Nqakula said.

"Even those who were executed did not speak for themselves, they were silenced."

Healing

She said interactive mechanisms, including a Facebook page and a website would soon be launched for the museum.

Mapisa-Nqakula encouraged South Africans to visit the centre to understand the history and acknowledge how the museum played a role in the country's healing process.

The museum would open next year.

She said the operations of the museum at the prison would not compromise security, and the museum would have a separate entrance.

The presidential entourage visited the chapel, execution room, autopsy room and fridge room.

Comments
  • Marius Koen - 2011-12-15 16:52

    Says who??? Just look at the mushlim countries.

      Boetjan - 2011-12-15 16:53

      Lets try it and see...

      Jack - 2011-12-15 16:59

      He's only worried about his own hide.....he could loss his entire cabinate. Actually South Africa's population would drop by 50%

      Citroes - 2011-12-15 17:02

      He likes using the constitution when it suits his argument, but let Zoomer want to get away with a crime, then the constitution is a rather big pain. I reckon the death penalty will reduce repeat offenders at the very least. It will stop a guy getting out on parole for murder from going straight out again and murdering somebody else.

      adrien.mcguire - 2011-12-15 17:06

      But we wouldnt have to use our tax money to pay for their board and lodging for 20 years ! That is worth a thought for those who abuse our right to life and dignity.

      Jean - 2011-12-15 17:09

      Its just criminals protecting criminals...

      clivecorbz - 2011-12-15 17:30

      Says the studies that have been done. Go look it up. And if you look at the Muslim countries, you'll see that they have higher murder rates than Western Europe... Which is quite a strong argument for education being the biggest deterrent of crime. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

      jruppersberg - 2011-12-15 17:50

      Personally I am against the death penalty. Ask yourself the following: 1. Is our judiciary accurate enough for the death penalty? 2. Do you trust your government with that power? 3. By approving of the death penalty you are directly involved in that death. How will this affect your concious? Many people are still convicted of crimes whilst innocent and it happens all over the world. Yes, there are people that deserve the death penalty but not even a 1000 deserved deaths can justify one innocent's death. It shocks me to see all the comments of people demanding the death penalty! Have you thought of all the implications? Rather have extreme levels of segregation. Lock the criminal up in a hole for the rest of his life with no contact with other humans and no chance of parole but do not play God!

      Penny-wise - 2011-12-15 17:53

      Sounds just like Mbheki saying HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Typical ANC regime. These ANC are SO stupid it makes me sick !!!

      Rob - 2011-12-15 17:57

      Margie, Referendum, good idean except what mechanism? The mind boggles when thinking about the basis/mindset for the two 'thumbs down'!!!!!!!!!!

      Graham - 2011-12-15 18:07

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/capitalpunishment/against_1.shtml

      jacques.vermaak - 2011-12-15 18:14

      Where me,my family and property is concerned,I WILL practice Mushlim Law.

      Atholl - 2011-12-15 18:26

      Ruppersberg is right. If the Constitution safeguards : the good: .. freedom of speech .. child protection .. slavery .. religion it also safeguards the 'bad': .. right to life (even) for alleged criminals .. right to protest .. right to strike .. right to sexual preference The death penalty in the wrong hands could (will) be abused.

      Steyn - 2011-12-15 18:36

      I wholeheartedly agree with you. Every execution sends chills down people's spines -that's what we need, a game-changer.

      clivecorbz - 2011-12-15 18:56

      Steyn. Show me one study that show's a substantial, or any, decrease in crime after a death penalty has been brought into law. It is NOT an effective deterrent. You wouldn't hire a security company that made no difference. Don't let people be killed in your name, for nothing.

      Mike - 2011-12-15 19:02

      With all due respect! Show me another SA taking drugs into China? "Our Constitution prioritises the right to life and dignity ...!" And tell that to the numerous farmers and innocent victims out there! Oops, they can't raise their opinion anyway?! BTW, don't the anc changes the constitution daily anyway??? Duh!! "Our police will continue to use effective methods to make our communities safer" OK, and the man in the moon is eating the cheese?!! And visiting the "frige room" does not refer to a free beer!!! The "cleansing ceremony" must refer to a shower of some sort? Another museum for the cadres, and another 100 houses for the poor not buildt! I just love this country!!

      clivecorbz - 2011-12-15 19:11

      @Mike Nolubabalo Nobanda was arrested taking drugs into Thailand the very next day! And you won't hear about them if they don't get caught... No victorious posts on Twitter! The ANC has not changed the constitution. When committing a crime, people do not think of the consequences, or if they are, they do not think they will get caught. To think otherwise shows a blatant misunderstanding of simple psychology and human nature.

      goyougoodthing - 2011-12-15 19:20

      @Ruppersberg 15 Years ago I shared your viewpoint. Heck 5 years ago even. However the state of this place has got so bad I am all in favour of the death penalty. These people are SCUM, they have no consideration for others. If you are worried about who the executioner will be, I will take the job. I honestly feel rocks to end the path of destruction these creatures travel. I am also happy to chop off hands for burglars and other bits for rapists. And jail would mean chain gangs and hard labour. Heck we could do with free new roads. Make them pay.

      Mike - 2011-12-15 19:36

      @clivecorbz: Agree with your paragraph 1, yet, until caught! Yes the anc did not change the constitution, only those who make it! Sorry but I can't agree with "When committing a crime, people do not think of the consequences...." My parents taught me the difference between right and wrong and so did I with my three children! They are now basing this foundation to my grandchildren and they are all aware of the consequences! Ever heard of the cliche: " The wheel turns?"

      jruppersberg - 2011-12-15 19:41

      @goyougoodthing. I understand your frustration and also believe that some people deserve the death penalty. But what about the innocent? How would you feel if your brother lands up in the wrong place/time and receives the death penalty for a crime he did not commit? Will you still feel the same?

      Dirk - 2011-12-15 20:00

      The irony is that those who are in favour of abortion, are very often the ones who are opposed to capital punishment- a matter of killing the innocent and protecting the guilty. Makes one think, does it not?

      Blip - 2011-12-16 01:20

      Guess what? Those Muslim countries all STILL have all the same crimes that the non-hanging majority of countries have! The criminals weren't deterred. What DOES deter criminals is the strong expectation that if you do a crime, the police are so on the ball that you WILL be caught.

      Blip - 2011-12-16 01:25

      Margie -- would you also support a referendum asking the people whether the white peoples' property should be confiscated by the state and redistributed to the poor? Can you imagine how that vote would go? That's why we have a constitution -- to protect us against the tyranny of a vengeful majority. And the death penalty debate has already been heard by the nation's highest court -- the Constitutional Court. And they ruled -- fully and finally -- that it is "unconstitutional". So not even a referendum can overturn it.

      Erba - 2011-12-16 08:10

      Neither is there credi ble evidence proving that the death penalty does not work.

      Anthony - 2011-12-16 08:52

      BRING IT BACK ASAP.

      Ven.saDhammananda - 2011-12-16 09:47

      what is mushlim ? countries

      Walter - 2011-12-16 09:58

      The death penalty should only be applicable to politicians who spend tax payers money on luxuries instead of the needy.

      Sue - 2011-12-16 10:03

      agree. what about those murdered, don't they have a right to life and dignity?

      rbphiri - 2011-12-16 10:38

      Let's see how he feels if someone killed his family members brutally

      J-Man - 2011-12-16 10:39

      "He said those advocating capital punishment did not understand how it felt to be on death row. ".. well Mr President, as it stands now with violent crime as it is, every South African is on Death Row at the moment and knows EXACTLY how it feels!

      RA - 2011-12-16 10:57

      blood 4 blood.. time mandela pays for all the people he blew up....

      hannesenbrianda - 2011-12-16 11:00

      Surely the worst criminals cannot be recycled into society to kill more victims. If the prognosis for rehabilitation is weak, I cannot see much harm in promoting the death panelty. Surely if a person was innocent the prognosis for rehabilitation should be good.

      Ryan - 2011-12-16 11:48

      zuma you idiot. so the murderers have the right to life and dignity but their victims don't ???

      Ryan - 2011-12-16 12:00

      and why would taxpayers like you and me want to support the filthiest of scum out there. the only problem is I dont think the police/detectives/prosecutors are too reliable in this country. putting an innocent person to death is unimaginable, but then again, so is putting him in prison for life if he's innocent. I say bring back the death penalty. and as a final safeguard, give him a lie detector test. if he passes it, then commute his sentence to life impisonment

      Theo - 2011-12-17 01:26

      @phuti - Dude, seriously... Every comment you make is a racial slur... Do me a favor, go out and make some friends. Some real friends. Go out and enjoy the sunshine, you'll see South Africa is a fantastic place to be. (Rhyme not intentional)

      jruppersberg - 2011-12-17 09:46

      @Phuti. Are you messing around on your madams PC again?

      Sharkshoot - 2011-12-17 10:45

      Hanging will definitely reduce the repeat murders of which there are plenty. In this country the authorities give repeat offenders license to hone their killing skills.

      Louis - 2011-12-18 09:07

      Mr shower you have not tried it yet, so how do you know? I think it's mostly because more blacks will be executed which will expose their lies to the world during the "liberation struggle" when they said to the world that more blacks were executed than whites by the white government just because they were black and not because of their crimes

      Ayesha Osman - 2013-05-14 22:18

      i agree

  • Grant - 2011-12-15 16:53

    Of course it will reduce crime - those executed will not re-offend, as a very high percentage do! Secondly it would save a whole lot of tax money that is spent keeping these vermin in jail until such time as paroled and set free to offend again!

      Blip - 2011-12-16 01:31

      Hanging people to save money? And you call yourself a HUMAN? I'd call you a sociopath and you pose a real danger to other humans, especially those in your own family and workplace.

  • Tertius Coetzer - 2011-12-15 16:53

    it will reduce the number of murderers!

      Blade - 2011-12-15 17:02

      It will decimate the number of ANC supporters...

  • Daft - 2011-12-15 16:55

    Guess the majority will loose alot of votes if the death penalty is implemented...

      The Real Unskinny - 2011-12-15 16:57

      The one and ONLY truth. IMHO prisoners shouldn't get a vote.

  • Kala - 2011-12-15 16:55

    "He said those advocating capital punishment did not understand how it felt to be on death row." I wonder how those who have lost children, parents, siblings and friends to murderers, rapists and other criminals feel going the rest of their lives without their loved ones. I wonder how many people now plan to smuggle drugs into China after hearing about the end results if you get caught. The death penalty makes you think... Doesn't it?

      Wes - 2011-12-15 17:12

      South Africa did not need to kill people to prove crime was wrong. So what about the innocent people being killed is that ok. Remove the rubbish so they cant do it again

      Rob - 2011-12-15 17:59

      Did not understand how it felt.........that is exactly why it must be re-instated, and soon before the population of criminals is in the majority.....or is it too late already?

      Blip - 2011-12-16 01:35

      Anthony, that old-school "eye for an eye" punishment was comprehensively rejected by none other than Jesus Christ, who taught his followers to turn away from wrath.

      Ryan - 2011-12-16 12:04

      Zuma clearly can't think that far. what a muppet

  • Musa - 2011-12-15 16:56

    Personally I think Zuma's talking through he's hol. Bring back the death penalty for murderers! "He said those advocating capital punishment did not understand how it felt to be on death row"...what about the people that gets murdered?

  • The Real Unskinny - 2011-12-15 16:57

    "There is no credible evidence to prove that re-introducing the death penalty in South Africa will reduce crime, President Jacob Zuma said on Thursday." Let's compare the murder rate BEFORE the death penalty was abolished to now.

      Blip - 2011-12-16 01:41

      There's hardly any difference (when fairly measured on a per capita basis). No properly-informed research supports capital punishment as a deterrent. Obviously it is 100% useless as an instrument of rehabilitation But it is, undoubtedly, an excellent instrument of retribution. But what judicial system in the 21st century has retribution as its main objective?

      Blip - 2011-12-16 07:32

      "Exactly that dont measure APPLY." What on earth does this mean? It's gibberish.

  • Karlien - 2011-12-15 16:57

    so now we care how child rapists and murderers FEEL when they are on death row? in my opinion, these people give up their rights when they murder innocent people.

  • Trudy - 2011-12-15 16:57

    so, our poor justice system, and repeat offenders are going to reduce crime? Wake up, seriously, how on earth do they investigate this type of fact? Why not execute those who murder and rape continiously? Where the logic in putting them back on the street?

  • Jos - 2011-12-15 16:58

    careful what you wish for. Before you know it sabotage, racists remarks, espionage will be punishable by death. Do you get the drift....?

      Gerhard - 2011-12-15 17:26

      And those that break the Secrecy Bill

      Doublepost - 2011-12-15 18:11

      Yes, but that's a punishment for having a corrupt, self-serving ruling party. It's got nothing to do with having the death penalty. As said before, the only REAL reason to not reinstate the death penalty is because the ANC would abuse it.

  • rowen.loretz - 2011-12-15 16:58

    Well it will get rid of alot of scum that sit in our prisons and eat of the taxpayers money. Bring back the death penalty!

      Bryn - 2011-12-15 17:50

      It costs more to execute someone than to imprison them for life.

      Gerhard - 2011-12-15 18:11

      Bryn, a coffin costs about a grand but feeding them for life and providing medical care for life costs a whole lot more. Skipped a couple of maths lessons? I got an "A" for woodwork, so I can make them in my spare time at a fraction of the cost.

      Blip - 2011-12-16 01:48

      Another sociopath? What do you suggest be done with people who are also a drain on our tax wallets? Insane people? Severely-disabled and permanently-incapacitated people? Other serious criminals sent to jail? Terminally-ill people? Juvenile delinquents? People with severe drug or alcohol addiction? People with bad brain damage? Shall we save more money by giving them all a quiet wee jab in the arm? Are you a human?

      Bryn - 2011-12-16 08:33

      Gerhard, use Google before making yourself look like an idiot. Executing someone isn't as simple as putting them in a room and injecting them.

  • Blade - 2011-12-15 16:59

    Its not up to you Showerhead. Have a referendum and let the people who waste their taxes on your salary decide.

      Peter - 2011-12-15 20:18

      Zuma used the referundum on the death penalty story to get votes for his current job. Conveniently forgotten. Besides if we were a 1st world country I wouldn't consider the death penalty, but we are 3rd world country, run by corrupt people without scruples or sense of humanity. How many have been jailed for killing, then given amnesty and promptly killed again?---ask Mbeki, he knows, he let them out.

      Blip - 2011-12-16 07:35

      Zuma didn't use ANY referendum on ANYTHING. The last president to call a referendum was F W de Klerk in 1992, in which the voters chose to approve his aim of holding one-man-one-vote democratic elections in 1994.

  • Mark - 2011-12-15 16:59

    zuma ... you are so wrong , by killing criminals you know that person CAN`T commit another crime and anyone planning to commit a crime that involves the death penalty will think twice before commiting a crime so the death penalty will work and save the tax payer millions in accomadation costs .

      Bryn - 2011-12-15 17:55

      No Mark, it is you who is wrong. There is no evidence that capital punishment reduces crime. Furthermore, it costs more to execute someone than to imprison them for life.

      Gerhard - 2011-12-15 18:14

      No Brynit is you that is wrong and Googled the wrong stats, a coffin costs about a grand but feeding them for life and providing medical care for life costs a whole lot more. Skipped a couple of maths lessons? I got an "A" for woodwork, so I can make them in my spare time at a fraction of the cost.

      nspaynter - 2011-12-15 20:10

      Mark, unfortunately criminals do NOT think of the consequences of their actions. I wish they did. It would make life so much easier. Cost of accommodating prisoners: A serious problem in our country with many really overcrowded prisons. The ideal, and that's in the White Paper for Correctional Services, is to get to the stage that every prisoner should be working to earn his own keep thus relieving the pressure on the tax payer. But in a country where unemployment is rife for law abiding people it becomes a problem to guarantee employment for prisoners.

      Marc - 2011-12-16 00:00

      Spot on, @ Bryn FOOL.

      Bryn - 2011-12-16 08:37

      You guys amaze me. I'm surprised that you have sufficient brain function to use the device you're commenting from. If you think the only costs involved with capital punishment are coffins and syringe fluids then you should evaluate your level of ignorance.

      Ryan - 2011-12-16 12:08

      Bryn, why dont you tell us what additional costs there are huh ??????

  • Max - 2011-12-15 17:00

    No you tjop, there is no justice in killing a another human being. That is why you must get rid of those who don't understand this.

      Blip - 2011-12-16 01:50

      Why misspell "chop" as "tjop"?

      Bardy - 2011-12-16 08:03

      @ Blip - Tjop is Afrikaans and chop is English. No misspelling there my friend...

  • Bob - 2011-12-15 17:00

    Okay, then what will Mr Zuma? Because you do not seem to have the alternative answer!

  • Josh - 2011-12-15 17:00

    I don't know what he is worried about... Embezzlement isn't punishable by death... On another note, all one needs to do is look at the GANG LORDS running the prisons. If the death penalty was there those guys could not exist in prisons the way they do. We don't ave evidence to show that the death penalty works if applied correctly, but we do know what happens if it is taken away.

  • LekkePerd - 2011-12-15 17:01

    "I do not think there is justice in killing another human being," he said......... Please stop thinking. If a "human being " kills another Human Being on purpouse,\, he should be Killed Mr Pressedent. We will see a differance. Crime has many explenations, Murder only one. An eye for an eye. Please re "think" and bring back death penalty.

      Blip - 2011-12-16 02:00

      Jesus rejected the "eye for an eye" and told his faithful to turn the other cheek.

      alansmartSnr - 2011-12-18 00:01

      @ Blip... Yes, and look where it landed him ! I say "Hang em high"!

  • dave.leverton - 2011-12-15 17:02

    I have to agree with JZ for once - and probably only once. The notion that the death penalty is a deterrent has been shown to be a myth time and time again. But it's one of those arguments that we will never reach consensus on - just like abortion, so I expect a few dozen thumbs down. What is needed is a change of attitude from the courts - those charged with serious crime should be denied bail without question, and sentences of life should be just that. I doubt whether some will find being behind bars forever with no hope of release until the day they die of old age preferable to instant death.

      Blade - 2011-12-15 17:07

      Please elaborate with facts as to how you come to the conclusion that "the notion that the death penalty is a deterrent has been shown to be a myth time and time again" you made a statement now prove it.

      Gerhard - 2011-12-15 17:19

      Have to agree with Blade, same as an extra public holiday will cost us R7bn. All a bunch of statisticians sitting behind their computers throwing a few theories out there. Let's give it a bash and see if crime goes down when it is reimplemented. If it doesn't go down after 17 years, then I agree, let's abolish it.

      dave.leverton - 2011-12-15 17:21

      There is so much info out there - from both sides of the debate. 'Surveys and polls conducted in the last 15 years show that some police chiefs and others involved in law enforcement may not believe that the death penalty has any deterrent effect on individuals who commit violent crimes. In a 1995 poll of randomly selected police chiefs from across the U.S., the officers rank the death penalty last as a way of deterring or preventing violent crimes.' 'Most homicides are spur-of-the-moment, spontaneous, emotionally impulsive acts. Murderers do not weigh their options very carefully in this type of setting. It is very doubtful that killers give much thought to punishment before they kill'. Whether it is or is not a myth is actually a moot point - while the ANC are in power the chances of the death penalty coming back are zero, nil, absolutely none at all - and that will not change if they are ever ousted by the DA. Blade - being able to prove it is not a deterrent is as impossible as you proving that it is - there simply is no agreement either way. I do find it odd how many were outraged at China executing a drug dealer, yet want that kind of punishment to be reinstated here at home.

      Mike - 2011-12-15 17:33

      Most homicides are spur-of-the-moment, spontaneous, emotionally impulsive acts. Murderers do not weigh their options very carefully in this type of setting. It is very doubtful that killers give much thought to punishment before they kill'. IN THE USA MAYBE. DO YOU THINK THAT YOU CAN APPLY US STATISTICS TO EVERY COUNTRY? GAL

      Mike - 2011-12-15 17:36

      Fire 12/13 rounds at 4 people during a house robbery and only take cell phones? Where are you getting your guidance from? Amnesty International? And yes, I have been a victim and am lucky ( blessed) to still be here.

      Gerhard - 2011-12-15 17:39

      'Surveys and polls conducted in the last 15 years show that some police chiefs and others involved in law enforcement may not believe that the death penalty has any deterrent effect' May, as in they are not sure. And agreed, we are not the US. Why constantly quote stats from the US and Europe, we are not the US and Europe. We tried democracy, that worked well, BBBBBBBBBEEEEEE is a total success, so let's give this one a bash and if doesn't work, we can say we have challenges (aka problems).

      dave.leverton - 2011-12-15 17:54

      Criminals are criminals - whether they live here, the USA or anywhere else. The only reason I use American studies is because that's where most studies have been done.

      Simon - 2011-12-15 19:49

      @ Dave Leverton...whilst I agree with some of your sentiment and whilst JZ may be right about the Death penalty not detering murderers he is only right about the first crime. No one who has been executed has ever re-offended!! They also leave space in prison for other offenders so we don't have to parole people early! The do-gooders have turned prison from a punishment (hence the word penalty, from penal) into these so called rehabilitation centres! This is crap, you don't feel rehabilitated when you get a speeding fine for breaking the law...Same government system but different motivations!! It is not the job of the government to rehabiltate criminals, merely to punish them to the fullest extent of the law! Remove all the privilages and get the facilities back to penal colonies and those first time offenders will think twice before going back!

  • Silver - 2011-12-15 17:06

    You Zuma you give your criminal brothers all the rights. You give those the rights who take the rights away from good human beings. Why Zuma why? Why should normal South African suffer so that you can protect your criminal friends? Why? You say the criminal have the right but I don’t have the right to protect my property or my families lives – well not until the criminal has murdered me or my family at least. You give criminals all the power and take away the power of normal South Africans!

      nsilongo - 2011-12-17 22:10

      Are the waterkloof 4 Zuma brothers?would they not be fitting of the noose too. News 24 seems to be a place were racists gather n spew nonsense.

  • lance.trent.kilkenny - 2011-12-15 17:07

    apartheid has been abolished, and good riddance, but citizens are now being slaughtered with impunity. we dont have space in our jails. we can use the money used to feed and entertain murderers elsewhere. anyone that murders has given up his/her right to any sort of freedom, let alone dignity. what about the dignity of those left grieving? another foolish statement from mr.showerhead!!! sigh

  • Comrade - 2011-12-15 17:08

    ZUMA - Nothing you say makes any sense anyway. So who cares what you say. eedjit.

  • Saksak Motsepe - 2011-12-15 17:08

    Mr President these supporters of death do not understand that allowing your life to be determined by one and then five and the 11 judges is dangerous

      Blade - 2011-12-15 17:14

      Stay off the papsak Saksak.

      Theo - 2011-12-17 01:38

      No we understand that allowing your life to be determined by one (Murderer) and then five (Rapists) and then eleven (Corrupt) judges, is dangerous... that is why we want the death penalty, so we can hang them, shoot them in the knee and pull out their finger nails( not in that order) #Manitisgoodtobealive

  • Stanley - 2011-12-15 17:10

    So over 4000 convicted guilty by law citizens were hanged by the (then) regime... but what about the 20 million+ innocent babies murdered through the laws of the current regime by the butchers of babies through abortionists. Just die (if not repented), and you will see what the Judge of all will verdict...

      Josh - 2011-12-15 17:20

      Mate, the difference is that you cannot by definition murder by accident. A woman or girl/child can become pregnant against their will... and if that happened ( G-d forbid) to someone you love, then you would be arguing a bit differently no?

      Bryn - 2011-12-15 17:58

      This isn't about abortion, but it's sick that you think that anyone who falls pregnant should be forced to bear the child.

  • Juan - 2011-12-15 17:17

    We are so preoccupied about the human rights of serious criminals, that we forget about the victims. Where is the right to life of murdered victims? The criminals didn't give a stuff about the victim's right to life. Our prisons are bursting at the seams, and there are clearly no deterrent for these criminals if you have a look at our runaway crime statistics. If paying the ultimate price doesn't serve as a deterrent then nothing will.

      alansmartSnr - 2011-12-18 00:19

      @ juan.. You'r so right. I like China's attitude.. Biggest population in the world.. Lowest crime (google it)..also the Muslim's attitude towards crime..Stone to death or chop an arm off..what more needs to be said?

  • Michelle - 2011-12-15 17:24

    what!!! it will reduce it by 90%. zuma knows if the death penalty is legal in SA, he wont have enough votes for a next term, all his anc voters will be excuted by then!

  • Shirley - 2011-12-15 17:24

    Zuma where did you suck that theory out of???????? Its fair for murderers to daily take away human lives only to be given a 15 year sentence with facilities to study,free board and lodging etc! Wait till your loved ones are brutally murdered then see what song you sing. DEATH PENALTY WILL MAKE A CRIM THINK BEFORE HE KILLS!!!!!

      Judith - 2011-12-16 19:47

      Also with Cele's 'shoot to kill' we have something like execution in this country anyway, without a trial....

  • Spartacus - 2011-12-15 17:25

    So what ? ... its main purpose would be rid society of such undesirables and save the taxpayer a lot of money ...Mr President I dare you to referendum the decision to the populace

  • Martin - 2011-12-15 17:28

    DEATH PENALTY awesome bring it back . RAPE , Murder , Drugs. these are the type of crimes that need the death penalty. If you can take a life then you have no right to live. Bring It BACK!!!

      Judith - 2011-12-16 19:47

      They should also give the death penalty to sociopathic conmen, at whose hands I have suffered....

  • edwin.netto - 2011-12-15 17:29

    HELLO..........., if you eliminate the murderers they cannot commit murder again - they dead! Clever man - get your colleagues in those over paid government departments to do some work for a change instead of spending money on hotels and check into how many repeat offenders there are committing murder, then you might be able to make an educated comment....

  • Mike - 2011-12-15 17:29

    It won't reduce crime, it will just reduce the number of cold blooded killers out there. If one looks at the statistics and extrapolates, its obvious that we have in our society people who have murdered more than once. If you do not believe me do the math!

      Blip - 2011-12-16 07:42

      The stats prove quite massively that hardly any murderers kill in more than one murder spree. By far the most multiple killings take place in only once incident.

  • Neeus - 2011-12-15 17:31

    That of course all depends on how low we set the bar to qualify for the death penalty... If we include bribery, corruption and graft as capital offences, it will include half of the current parliament which would stop a lot of further fraud and crime...

  • Ayavuya - 2011-12-15 17:31

    I can't believe this jack a$$! So the Secrecy bill wont violate our constituion? Please!

  • Peter - 2011-12-15 17:33

    Sorry Mr president i do disagree.!!!

  • Neeus - 2011-12-15 17:33

    Anyone who says that the death penalty does not serve as a deterrent should place before us a person who has served his death penalty and then gone on to do something wrong again. Of course it is a deterent it stops multiple offences...

  • nspaynter - 2011-12-15 17:34

    For once I agree with our president! We used to have a death sentence, it never worked. It's not going to work now. Give heavy sentences which can be reduced if there is a marked improvement in the attitude of the criminal. I work with prisoners and amongst them are men who were due to be executed but had there sentences changed when the death sentence was abolished. I have also worked with murderers and rapists and seen some of them reform and change. Remember Madiba was almost given a death sentence. He deserved it at the time. And he turned out to be the best President we've ever had......

      nspaynter - 2011-12-15 17:44

      I believe the answer is in education, skills development and mass employment.

      Gerhard - 2011-12-15 17:50

      "I work with prisoners and amongst them are men who were due to be executed but had there sentences changed when the death sentence was abolished. I have also worked with murderers and rapists and seen some of them reform and change." WOW!! So you have seen some of them reform! Very comforting to those who have been raped and the families of those murdered. Maybe you should go with to their grave sites on the weekend to drop off a few flowers. I am sure by reading your comment all of those that have been victims will now really understand. Those women raped will now fully understand and will no longer hate those that raped them. And those that have not been reformed???? Well I suppose some you win and some you lose. Ever had someone close to you be raped or killed? I think not.....

      nspaynter - 2011-12-15 18:18

      Gerhard said: "Ever had someone close to you be raped or killed? I think not....." Actually I have. A very dear old lady who had somebody climbing through her bathroom window to rob her. She was raped and she died a few days later.

      Blip - 2011-12-16 07:44

      One seldom makes any sensible decision when it's all wrapped up in first-hand personal emotional trauma.

  • Vuyo - 2011-12-15 17:34

    The president seems to be insensitive to the families whose loved ones are executed by murderers everyday . I dare him to drive around without bodyguards and see what these criminals would do to him. The death sentence wolud remove from society those who are not prepared to share this space with their fellow men . Also if the death penalty is incorrect , why not scrap the army , as their duty is to kill when defending their country .

  • edwin.netto - 2011-12-15 17:36

    Fair Comment : S v Makwanyane and Another (CCT 3/94) The Court held that, in practice, there was an element of chance at every stage of the process of implementing the death penalty: The outcome may be dependent upon factors such as the way the case is investigated by the police, the way the case is presented by the prosecutor, how effectively the accused is defended, the personality and particular attitude to capital punishment of the trial judge and, if the matter goes on appeal, the particular judges who are selected to hear the case. Race and poverty are also alleged to be factors.[4]

      alansmartSnr - 2011-12-18 00:39

      @ Edwin...Very good comment.And informative to. The factors are obvious but I don't think anybody thought this through before commenting. You mirrored exactly what I would have liked to say

  • sylvester.kuisis - 2011-12-15 17:37

    There's a huge difference between political prisoners, and rapists and murderers.

      Johan Britz - 2011-12-15 18:08

      Yep. The one group is white the other is black.

  • TamaraSays - 2011-12-15 17:41

    Of course, you'd cut down on all them re-offenders, innit?

  • dave.leverton - 2011-12-15 17:41

    Emotion seems to blind everyone to facts. You can bash those against the death penalty as much as makes you feel good but it won't make the facts any different. There is no correlation between the murder rate and the death penalty - that's just the way it is. If you accept then, based on all evidence that the death penalty is not a deterrent then you can only want it reinstated as an act of revenge - and that is a whole different topic. Proof - it can't be clearer than this:- In the USA, states without the death penalty have consistently lower murder rates than states with the death penalty. In addition, while southern states account for over 80 percent of the executions , they have consistently had the highest murder rate of the nation's four regions. Give me a thumb down or a 100 thumbs down, it won't change the facts.

      Gerhard - 2011-12-15 18:00

      Excellent point!! So here are the facts: - 1. Person murders or rapes. 2. Kill person who murders or rapes. 3. Dead person cannot get parole and go out and rape or kill again. So 100 thumbs up from me for getting us all to focus on the facts. Now go hug a bunny or buy a Prius.

      dave.leverton - 2011-12-15 18:18

      I'll see your facts and raise you this - The possibility of the death sentence has in every study shown either no reduction in the murder rate or to the contrary an increase in the murder rate - often due to the need to eliminate witnesses. So while your one dead person may not commit further crimes, the bigger picture is the carnage will ultimately continue regardless of the threat of execution and may in fact increase the ruthlessness of those in question.

      TamaraSays - 2011-12-16 01:00

      Might not reduce the likelihood of people committing their first serious crime, but it would stop re-offenders from doing it again, in 100% of cases! I don't think any of us are unaware that bad people will do bad things. But why let them have the chance to do bad things over and over again?

      adrien.mcguire - 2011-12-17 17:01

      @Dave Leverton You get statistics and you get staistics. Before you belive and quote them you should take time to investigate how the figures were gathered and interpreted. I would suggest that if you investigated things like the demographics, the wealth situation, the effectiveness of the police, the community environment etc etc you might find a different set of statistics to quote. So, it is not "just the way it is", it is the way you want to portray it.And your other statement " Proof - it can't be clearer than this" is not factual , but simply ONE interpretation of the statistics. Think carefully before you quote statistics.

  • Neeus - 2011-12-15 17:41

    "Good Judges" remember that when you try to change the constitution to extend your term or alter the course of an investigation you chop!

  • raymond.kok3 - 2011-12-15 17:51

    funny that the crooks dont care if they kill anybody else so why are you so worried about the rights of the idiots ,or are you scared you will wipe out a whole lot of your support ,there i said it lets try it on a ten year bassis or better yet mr so called democracy put it to a referandem and lets see what happens

  • jruppersberg - 2011-12-15 17:53

    Personally I am against the death penalty. Ask yourself the following: 1. Is our judiciary accurate enough for the death penalty? 2. Do you trust your government with that power? 3. By approving of the death penalty you are directly involved in that death. How will this affect your concious? Many people are still convicted of crimes whilst innocent and it happens all over the world. Yes, there are people that deserve the death penalty but not even a 1000 deserved deaths can justify one innocent's death. It shocks me to see all the comments of people demanding the death penalty! Have you thought of all the implications? Rather have extreme levels of segregation. Lock the criminal up in a hole for the rest of his life with no contact with other humans and no chance of parole but do not play God!

  • Rob - 2011-12-15 17:54

    And if you take a shower after.........! Typical politiucal double speak. The debate around whether or not the death sentence impacts on crime is far from conclusive or closed. Yes there are advocates for no effect, but there are also advocates, including citations, for its deterrent effect, especially for murder rates. Like several bloggers have said, look it up for yourself! BUT two issues cannot be challenged. 1. Most of the articles/research supporting the poor eficacy of the death penalty are based on North American or European data; This is really important because the murder rate in SA is multiples higher than in these countries. One can argue that none of the research/conclusions has much bearing on the local situation. 2. Whatever your views about the death penalty's preventative value the question of punishment stands as a seperate issue. That opens a completely different discussion, and one that has so many implications. But is it time? I think so.

  • Dries - 2011-12-15 17:59

    At least it will save millions keeping those bastards in jail and feed them on tax money. Get rid of the scum.

  • Tim - 2011-12-15 18:03

    JZ is correct. The death penalty is a drug that nations and states become addicted to. Execute one and next thing you're executing thousands with no impact on serious crime. Have a look at China and the state of Texas. Muslim countries do not have low crime rates because of the death penalty, but because of the overall moral imperative that Islam inculcates on Muslim societies as a whole. Actually the death penalty is really dumb. I mean it goes something like this: The State says: "Hey Joe, you did a wrong thing when you killed that guy. Killing someone is barbaric and cannot be condoned in a civilized society. People who kill are wicked and evil. Now,hold still while we kill you." The death penalty corrupts the soul of democratic societies, lowers the society that uses it to the level of morality of the criminal it executes and numbs society's ability to sense instinctively what democracy is all about. Have a look at China and the Republicans in the state of Texas.

      alansmartSnr - 2011-12-18 00:55

      @ Tim.. You got the cat by the balls. China has the lowest crime rate in the world and the largest population. (Go and Google it) As for the Muslims their method of punishment as sure as hell does serve as a deterent. They may have other extremes but but interna crime hardly exists. Do your homework, I just have my friend.

  • jacques.buckle - 2011-12-15 18:04

    and neither will talking. its not bout reducing crime its about an eye for an eye

      Tim - 2011-12-15 18:22

      and an eye for an eye makes both sides equally vrot

  • Eric Schollar - 2011-12-15 18:11

    No executed murderer ever killed again.

  • Perfume5 - 2011-12-15 18:12

    More than half of government would be dead, should the death penalty be re-instated.

  • dhuysamen1 - 2011-12-15 18:15

    It sure as hell would save us a lot in taxpayers money and DEFINITELY reduce the numbers of the murderous criminals that have run rampant under the ANC kid-glove approach to the punishment of their criminal Bruthas