Elections show local democracy 'not maturing'

2011-05-31 22:31

Pretoria - People's voting behaviour is evidence that local democracy is not maturing as the same underperforming political parties are constantly voted back into power, a local government expert said on Tuesday.

The country had seen a sharp increase in the number of protests, most of which were accompanied by violence, but people had still remained loyal to their parties, said Professor Jaap de Visser, of the University of Western Cape's community law centre.

"The voting behaviour is not based on the same consideration as protest behaviour.

"We see underperformance and frustration in many municipalities, but that does not translate to a change in voting behavior," he said at a conference on municipal services and tax, hosted by lobby group AfriForum at the Centurion council chambers.

De Visser acknowledged the high spirits during the local government elections on May 18 but noted concern at a "very dire" situation on the ground.

According to research he presented, violent protests increased in frequency from 41.6% in 2007 to 54% in 2010.

Most of the protests were about housing, water, sanitation, electricity and poor service delivery, and most were in Gauteng.

De Visser said statements issued by government showed that it was aware of the problem and was taking it seriously.

"Improvements in municipal governance are necessary," he said.

  • lance.trent.kilkenny - 2011-05-31 22:55

    i would like to change the heading to, Elections Show Education Not Improving, cos one would have to be a complete IDIOT to vote for the same people who keep stealing from you. then u go and burn tires, stone innocent peoples cars and hate others that vote for organizations that get the job done.

      Krolie - 2011-06-01 05:52

      An extract from: London Times " South Africa is the only country in the world where affirmative action is in the favour of the majority who has complete political control. The fact that the political majority requires affirmative action to protect them against a 9% minority group is testament to a complete failure on their part to build their own wealth making structures, such that their only solution is to take it from others." LONDON TIMES

      Risen Ape - 2011-06-01 05:52

      The ANC must be in powa but the DA must dieliva.

      Aish - 2011-06-01 06:16

      U think?

      Creeky - 2011-06-01 07:55

      Only reason the ANC is getting the masses to vote for them, is that they TELL THEIR PEOPLE THEY WILL LOSE THEIR SOCIAL GRANTS!!!! Thats enough to scare the Bejesus out of them!!!

      Masendelakho - 2011-06-01 08:15

      Haha, Krolie. That's a big slap in the face of these natives.

      penada - 2011-06-01 08:29

      i think it is too oversimplistic and inconsequential to label ANC voters as idiots...its an easy way out, perhaps if we all understood why, or if the DA did, maybe they could make great inroads into changing that psyche...calling people idiots, or whatever is really relative to one's own personal views, and maybe those "idiots" do not care how you label them or think you one as well. AS for SA being the only country where the majority has affirmative action to me is testament to the restraint with black people probably would have been easier to go into civil war and take everything forcibly. Also people the wealth that white people have is not their own 100% if it is built on the expense of black people (though the colour bar, cheap labour, forced removal of people from fertile lands, etc). maybe perhaps this is one of the things that will keep them from voting DA, i think black people get the sense that white people do not see the values of affirmative action (and that is not to say i agree with the ANC policy of RDP and BBBEE).

      Audacious - 2011-06-01 08:40

      I'd like to reply to most of you guys here and single out Penada. Penada, I dont know your age, but you put everything in the correct context. Shame on the rest of you. Just remember "if the poor dont eat, the rich dont sleep' The rest of you I think you are all priveleged idiots yourselves.

      Sho Fukamachi - 2011-06-01 08:51

      @penada: easier to take it by force? doubt it. and we will call ANC voters whatever we like, ie.racist idiotic voters. do you want to know why? the ANC is destroying the country, and they keep voting for the ANC because of what the ANC used to represent, not what they are currently doing. so while they close their eyes hope for better days, they are in actual fact being bent over and butt-f****. I for one, am sick and tired that my tax money is being used to enrich the corrupt pieces of sh*t in the ANC, and the poor stay poor. Affirmative action is just reverse racism, and if you can't see that, you are definitely not fit to hold a job, and should go back to school.

      Matt - 2011-06-01 08:54

      @ Krolie - wow, they said that back in England? I'm surprised - generally I found that their media's idea was "before it was evil white versus poor black, but then Super Mandela came, liberated everyone, and now everyone's happy and it's going well..." and at the same time people think SA's backward and the crime's terrible... quite some confusion PS - Krolie, - hope you like it :-)

      penada - 2011-06-01 08:59

      dear Sho quite heated words. i do not think my views reveal a lack of education on my part but i guess you called it, so we will differ on that. (ps i do actually want to do this course history, politics and economics, perhaps that will endow me with the intellectual propperties you so possess, well done you!). affirmative action can be seen as reverse racism i do not disagree, but truth be told we do need it to redress the imbalances offset by apartheid. i agree the ANC is driving the country, and i am as dispassionate about it as well, but that isnt the point i was making, i was merely suggesting that DA, and a lot of non ANC supporters fail to see why the ANC voters still vote ANC...and that the DA would be well advised to see the real issues at hand if they wanted to change the course of our lives

      Steen - 2011-06-01 09:07

      So white people wants black people's votes? and then what?

      Rea - 2011-06-01 09:17

      Tell me Krolie, which party did you vote for because the Da also supports AA?

      Slasher27 - 2011-06-01 09:27

      Ok Steen, keep telling yourself that.

      Bongza.GP - 2011-06-01 09:31

      Nice one Krolie. Must make you feel warm inside knowing that the natives are failing, nne? Democracy is growing. More people voted in these local elections than before. No noticeable political violence reported. The same underperforming political parties are constantly loosing votes.

      LagUTroll - 2011-06-01 10:17

      @Rea They support EE which caters for everyone (if the town has 60% women, then companies should be at about 60% employed with women, same applies for disabled, race etc etc) not so much as just for BLACK EE. This is why the ANC said "there are too many coloureds in capetown", because capetown is giving those "coloured" jobs (EE), rather than giving it all to the black people (BEE) and the ANC doesn't like that.

      schmerz - 2011-06-01 10:23

      @penada, "redress the imbalances offset by apartheid" - these imbalances are there because the Blacks of Africa ordered their women around instead of doing anything for themselves. We did not come here to take your stuff and we bought the land from you. We then built the whole of South Africa, which you simply took from us. If you had infrastructure before this, things would have been very different. So instead of sitting back and blaming whites for your colossal failure throughout history, why don't you put in some effort to uplift yourselves instead of feeding off a minority? Read what Krolie wrote? That's a piece of evidence that the masses are still in the same mindset, they won't achieve anything without being educated and able.

      Kabudula - 2011-06-01 10:56

      Democracy is not an instant process, if any group has been denied education for prolonged period of time you cannot expect enlightenment over night. It is positive to see more diverse engagement from the younger generations and focus on those small gains...Rome was not built in a day, yah cliché you might say but it is true. I'd rather acquire that way of thinking than go with most of your impatient comments...

      bling bling - 2011-06-01 12:03

      Penada...please man.....any lad that has already been taken NO LONGER fertile.....the blacks chased the whtie farmers off...and what happend.??.....the land died.....they broke the houses down and built shacks....and expected the govement to pay for their farming etcetc.....and when they got nothing......they just left the land to dont say that fertile land was taken back in the was already dead.....the white farmer breathed life into it.....get your facts straight

      Enuff - 2011-06-01 13:20

      @ Penada - "a lot of non ANC supporters fail to see why the ANC voters still vote ANC"??? Leading up to the 18 May elections I literally trawled social media sites and blogs to try to understand this very thing. Below are the only motives used by ANC supporters I could find : 1. loyalty to the ANC for freedom from apartheid. 2. race 3. expectation of elders 4. fear instilled by the ANC that a. a vote against the ANC is a ticket to hell b. a vote against the ANC will cause Madiba's health to deteriorate c. a vote against the ANC will anger the ancestors d. a vote against the ANC is a vote for the return of apartheid I believe that non ANC supporters understand very well why ANC supporters still vote for them. The problem is that there is no way any self respecting political party can put these "issues" ahead of education, unemployment, housing, healthcare and crime.

      penada - 2011-06-01 14:51

      enuff please, just because it is written on a website does not make it you really believe people are scared of worrying their ancestors by voting DA, ticket to hell...etc. it is interesting the very things you found are speeches to by zuma and malema rallying people to vote...please just be a bit more circumspect than that...just because zuma said one thing it doesnt mean people believe it, or took it literally...on that note why is that when anc politicians use figures of speech people take it u really think zuma meant it literally when he said anc will rule until jesus come...or that people believede that...that was just him illustrating that the anc will always surfed the internet, found a few zealous speeches by egocentric and extroverted people and you reduce the black populance to that, simply because they voted anc...sad

      Hott1 - 2011-06-01 15:26

      Just shows how bad white rule was, no matter how badly ANC does, people still vote 4 it.

      Hott1 - 2011-06-01 15:35

      Krolie is just an imbecile. corn bread eating sh*tface.

      Matt - 2011-06-01 16:01

      @ Hott1 - Krolie is one of the nicer commentators on here... unlike you. Now go wipe your ar$e on the new ANC tabloid and leave us all alone, thank you

      nic - 2011-06-01 20:35

      @hot1 What Krolie said is a fact. What is shocking is that you and so many other people are oblivious to facts. You know what that means??

      John Wilderness - 2011-06-02 04:30

      Penada I think you make a good point. Black people in SA have been very gracious and patient and do get very little credit for the big contribution thet have made to the country. The other side of the coin is that they do focus to much on the segment of whites who still find the need to hang on to past be singing the praises of apartheid and those whites who are very negative to black people. I think black people need to focus a lot more on change and delivery and not let these sour elements deter them obtaining what rightfully belongs to them. It is the racist, apartheid philic segment of whites that drives black people away from the DA and toward the ANC.

      John Wilderness - 2011-06-02 06:04

      strange how the same crowd that voted for aprtheid NP every election (1948 - 1990), against the advice a of the UK,USA,CAnada,Australia, Sweden, norway etc etc, are the same ones who cannot understand how people can continually vote for the ANC.

      penada - 2011-06-02 08:28

      morning john wilderness you raise good points, in both your blogs...your fist point...blacks focus a lot on elements that refuse change and racial integration, ashamed to say, but i feel i also fell into this trap...before i started reading news24 i was leaning towards the DA, truth be told i never voted ANC in a general election, i remember voting for them in the local elections in cape town when i was staying there around the turn of the century. i have always felt uncomfortable with the huge support the ANC enjoyed, and up until recently the DA was starting to sound sweeter..then i started blogging are right, sensible black people need to ignore "the bad apples", and we need to stop clinging to apartheid so much, it was there, we lived through it, we must all move on and get over is too disabling i think to keep blaming apartheid. your second point.... a lot of white voters clung to their NP vote all along like you said...change perhaps is hard for all humans and we need to respect that, and work constructively to understand one another, to love ane another and to better all our lives and society

      Psalm - 2011-06-02 08:49

      @ John Wilderness Both your comments are spot on.

      Shape Shifter - 2011-06-02 09:50

      I see so tell me why did was the apartheid Government voted over and over and over again and again ????

  • Monica - 2011-05-31 22:58

    Too many ill-informed and uneducated people in our country!

      mshini wam - 2011-06-01 05:49

      You mean by voting DA you are educated, civilised etc

      Victor - 2011-06-01 06:47

      And another someone looses the plot. By voting ANC you are. By voting something else your are not. Look at the toilet story. The anc jumps up and down because the DA had 50 toilets that was not closed. The walls having been stolen and the judge says in court the police didn't do their job in investigating. The ANC are later found to have over a 1000 toilets not closed. Never had walls. The anc local government even acknowledges they knew. Point is, why vote for a dysfunctional government. One that proofed how good they are for the last 12 years. How many times did the ministers upgraded their places with exorbitant amounts? Like the one case where the minister simply didn't like the color of the walls. Stuff like buying a Porches for the prisons, why? Expecting the ANC elite as inmates soon? One that gives contracts to companies they own of their friends owns.

      LOLWUT - 2011-06-01 07:00

      @mshini wam Still voting ANC shows a lack of education or a like for corruption. And if you call standing next to the road at an open fire in the middle of the winter civilized then you are also not too bright. I call it desperate and cheated. The ANC have failed - AGAIN.

      daaivark - 2011-06-01 07:04

      Mshini Wam. That is false logic. Because one thing does not apply does NOT mean that it's opposite does. Maybe you should stick to singing.

      Gaba - 2011-06-01 07:30

      Or perhaps one needs to ask themselves why the so called "performing" parties are not voted for!

      tkotze - 2011-06-01 07:45

      @mshini wam: No, by not changing your vote to another party if a party has shown to be so corrupt and self-centered show there is something amiss in your education

      Creeky - 2011-06-01 08:05

      What DEMOCRACY????? The majority of South African voters are to STUPID to think for themselves.... they cannot get their FLATHEADS aroud theword DEMOCRACY!!! Don't confuse the matter by comparing Democarcy with AFRICAN DEMOCRACY.... That's a total different ANIMAL!!!!

      Protest - 2011-06-01 08:16

      @mshini wam: Why must the debate be turned into a argument about "educated, civillised etc"? The article clearly states there are a lack of political maturity in South Africa. Why vote the people into power and at the same time run a violent protest against those same people. When you have the opportunity to vote, you can formalize your protest by voting for someone else. With enough votes against the people in power, they have no choice but to deliver what they are paid for, or else, they are out. When the people in power is voted in with a overwhelming majority, the motivation to deliver is greatly reduced. That is why it is critical to have a balance of opposing political parties in charge. To vote based on peer pressure or historical loyalties is not just politically immature, it is social suicide.

      Wow! - 2011-06-01 08:31

      @mshini wam - No we think that continually voting for a party that is not delivering is ill-informed and uneducated. Actually, I would add the word stupid. What this populace needs to learn is that democracy thrives on balance. If a party does not perform give the other one a go. You control the power base with your vote. Nothing would get performance from the ANC like knowing that they could be out next time.

      Notbuyinface - 2011-06-01 08:36

      White people never changed their voting patterns even if they get good service in Sandton and Bryaton. I guess they are uneducated too and idiots. What do you expect from an AfriForum kangaroo tribunal.mxm

      Lab-Rat - 2011-06-01 08:48

      mshini wam - "You mean by voting DA you are educated, civilised etc" - Isn't it obvious?

      Steen - 2011-06-01 09:10

      I am educated and civilized enough not to vote a white man party. ANC is the way to go for all black people.

      Reppie - 2011-06-01 09:19

      @NotBuyinface There 'might' be good service delivery in Sandton and Bryanston etc, however what about the corruption, crime and all the other areas that is still a large "FAIL". According to your logic, I can now start a Restaurant. I only need to give people a huge smile and excellent service. Meanwhile I can charge double my competitors prices, make sure the food is of the lowest quality and have no need to train my staff... perhaps even just give them the minimum wage, perhaps lower and take all the profits for myself. As according to your logic people should still "choose" my good service over all of these other factors. Just because the ANC gives 'good' service in areas this doesnt mean "white" people in those areas should suddenly start voting for them.

      Kgomotso - 2011-06-01 10:15

      @ Monica and Afriforum you are technicaly correct but your reasoning is un-informed and needs to educated. You and Afriforum do not know the difference between a strike and boycot. A strike is a way to show dissatisfaction where else boycotting is you are sick and tired of something and do not want it any more. When people where on strike they were not saying they are tired of ANC but simply saying there are things they are not happy about that they want to be attended to as a matter of urgency. You equated that to boycot that is why you and AFRI_FORUM are shocked by the outcome.

      Mike or Mpho - 2011-06-01 10:33

      @ Mshini wam - Oh man, I get annoyed by these sort of comments. Short answer yes, voting for the DA (or COPE, IFP, Pink Dinosaur doesnt really matter) indicates that the voter does not accept corruption, thieving, incompetence, racism ways. But why bother, you wouldn't understand anyway.

      Kpt_Keyboard - 2011-06-01 10:39

      Check the comments of steen and notbuyinface! The anc is not the real problem, its the ppl that put them in power! The scary part is that they(steen & notbuyinface) prob hav some sort of proper education and they r still making comments like these!

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 14:38

      And prey tell what exactly you are doing about educating the uncivilized?, besides sitting there typing this drivel. Maybe if we start treating them as equals, we will stop seeing them vs us, and finally we will all be people of SA. The Words that you use create perception, as long as that perception is negative or can be construed as derogatory, then "they" will vote for any party that liberated "them" from us. Do you Get that.!

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 14:46

      @Protest, you see you are as bad as the article itself. You fail to see that he was reacting to the statement made by Monica. If a person makes a comment about a decision you take, and calls it uneducated, without even bothering to understand the logic behind the decision, thats a derogatory remark. Dont get me wrong, i hate the ANC and their corruption etc etc, but if we carry on as whites bashing the black party, then are we ever actually grooming the democracy that we so desire, or are we just fueling their hatred for the pale face. Us vs Them cannot work anymore, typing on a website does not work if you are not going to engage constructively. We are all entitled to our vote, and we are all entitled to our logic of how we vote. but that does not give you or anyone the right to call me uneducated because of it. Make no bones about it if the DA was in Majority today, my vote tomorrow would be for someone else, thats my logic, does it make me uneducated by Monica's standards, or lack of.

      John Wilderness - 2011-06-02 04:33

      Creeky it is obvious that are a part of that stupid majority.

  • Thisile Mtyeku - 2011-05-31 23:03

    The DA needs to put to actions to their policies of catering for all and start transforming.Black people in this country will never trust white people with their freedom even if it means voting for the same idiots over and over again as they relate better to them than the DA

      Rob Roy - 2011-06-01 00:34

      @Thisile, then you and your mates need to accept poor service delivery etc and stop your toyi toyi, rock throwing and tyre burning antics when YOUR elected local government party does not perform. Rather quietly capture them and flog them in private instead of your disruptive and internationally publicised behaviour which just shows the international community how stupid you lot are since your voted, not once, not twice but a dozen times, for the ones you march against.

      TreeRat - 2011-06-01 01:30

      It depends on your priorities. The ANC wanted representivity. They achieved it and sacraficed service delivery. The DA wants service delivery, and they achieved it at the cost of representivity. You have to decide what you want. You can't have your bread buttered on both sides. Real transformation takes time... It would be nice if you could have both, and some of the expectations of the voters were unrealistic thanks to the populist campaigning of certain politicians, but the voters unfortunately need to start to realize that it is their vote that determines what they get... They can't keep blaming the past.

      FarmerBrown - 2011-06-01 05:18

      You right Thisile. The DA needs to do more. However the people also must realize that "free" is unsustainable and people themselves need to come to the party. Your comment of "Black people" means you are voting colour not wisdom or even what's best for you. Think clearly.... do you honestly think Africa's biggest economy should be run by a grade 3 tribal chief with 5 wives, and also has a bribery cloud over his head.His family has moved from extreme poverty to exceptional wealth and yet I see the working people who battle to afford education for their kids. In fact the quality of education is so low that at grade 8 these kids are unable to add? This would/should never happen in a 1st world country and Zuma and his cronies, to put it bluntly are incapable of doing anything about it.They will play the race card for a few more elections but the masses will eventually tire and then mayhem m8.The population needs education... not race alienation and unless this adressed, look North for the end result.

      Victor - 2011-06-01 06:56

      We are still joking about the ANC's election speeches/preaches. If you don't vote ANC... 1. You going to kill Mandela (Malema) 2. You going to go to hell (Zuma) 3. The ancestors is going to haunt you. (Zuma) All jokes aside. If this is the government we have, I wonder about them. I fear for the future of this country.

      Pencilgraffiti - 2011-06-01 07:11

      Agree with both Thisile and Farmer B but what really concerns me at this point is that it seems the ANC would rather face a revolt/violent protest than deal with their own incapabilities. They are the national leaders, they have been for many years now and they need to start acting like a mature responsible party and not like teenagers

      York Hunt - 2011-06-01 07:37

      @ThisMugu or whatever. Your logic is flawed and racist.

      bar-one - 2011-06-01 08:31

      Black people need to let go of their complexes , they will only truly be free when they think without the shackles of the past. The truly free man is the man who makes decisions based on merit and ability ,not on colour. Your mistrust is based on a lot of truths ,but also a lot of lies. Take a good hard look around you ,and see who truly seems to want to propagate this mistrust,and who just wants to see south africa prosper, and by prosper I do not mean instant wealth ,but long term sustainable upliftment and employment.

      Lab-Rat - 2011-06-01 08:54

      Thisile Mtyeku - The whole problem is racism which seems to be clouding your judgement. The moment you can get over your hatred for other races is the moment you'll start thinking logically and see the problem for what it really is. Until then, your beloved party, will keep using you and bankrupting the country.

      KPActivities - 2011-06-01 09:40

      @Victor, Exactly, the anc is putting fear into their people. How many people where threatened that their houses or shops would be burnt if they do not vote for the anc.

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 14:50

      Thankyou, you have just justified my argument all along, its not about politics, its not even about race, its about trust and sorry to admit it, even with the comments that fly around on these sites, how can a black person trust the intentions of a white person (specially when they are called uneducated) and how can the white man trust the blackman (specially when we are calling for machine guns and shooting the farmers). Words create perceptions, perceptions win elections not actions...sad but true.

      Hott1 - 2011-06-01 15:51


      John Wilderness - 2011-06-02 04:46

      @Thisile. These people don't get it. They think that the only reason that people vote for a certain party is to get better service delivery and and less corruption. Why worry about service delivery and corruption when for 100 years or more south africans were plagued with poor/non-existent service delivery and tons of corruption. Poor service deliovery will only affect the haves not the have-nots. For many decades and generations the poor of SA have already conditioned themselves to survive with nothing so why worry should they worry about what they don't have and are not getting ? By voting in the ANC the poor have nothing to lose while the verkrampte wealthier class have a lot to lose. Guess what ? What the poor do see is that the wealthier ones are often they same ones who insult the poor, call them un-intelligent, put their dogs on them and these wealthier ones get vey frustrated when the corrupt ANC get voted in again and again.

  • Benzo - 2011-05-31 23:04

    dear Professor, the answer lies in an analysis of the non-voters and the number of people who did not even registrate.

      daaivark - 2011-06-01 07:05

      How does one registrate? Go to a magister?

      Creeky - 2011-06-01 08:09

      How does one REGISTRATE? Noun of Verb? New one everyday!!!! Thank God for the OBE system... soon the Oxford English Dictionary will be DOUBLE THE CONTENT!!!!

      photonic - 2011-06-01 08:25

      @Creeky: Maybe it's a cross between register and demonstrate?

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 14:54

      sorry those that failed to "Registrate" and excersise their constitutional duty are absolute wimps, there should be a system that indicates whether you did or did not, because i somehow guarantee that most of the non-voters are on here bitching and moaning as usual... no vote no complaining, end of story.

  • jock van wyk - 2011-05-31 23:05

    has any country in africa ever showed signs of maturing?

      Rob Roy - 2011-06-01 00:35


      MK - 2011-06-01 04:16

      Then what are you doing there? Move man!

      ZipZap - 2011-06-01 07:02

      yes, Sa before 94.

      daaivark - 2011-06-01 07:05

      SO why are you racist jerks still here. Seeya!

      Creeky - 2011-06-01 08:17

      One of the reasons the ANC are continueing with the "STRUGGLE SONGS" is that they will KEEP the PEOPLE IN STRUGGLE MODE!!! They keep telling their followers that the "STRUGGLE CONTINUES"..... and they FALL FOR IT!!!! Malema and Co are all fighting to retain the "Kill the Boer" song, as it highlights the Struggle...and as long as the masses feel there is an ongoing struggle, no mater whom is the CAUSE of the Struggle... they will keep voting for the ANC!!! SAD!

      Badballie - 2011-06-01 08:24

      @ DAAIVARK and MK fACT: Western Democracy has not succeeded anywhere on the Afican continent...EVER, to call someone racist for stating the truth only make you look the unintelligent gits you are, especially you Daaivark, I would have expected more from you!!!

      ratex - 2011-06-01 08:47

      @badballie, yes you are right. Western Democracy has not succeeded in Africa. Africans apparently know better than anybody else in the known universe. So tell me, how's that African Democracy working out for you? Utopia, land of honey and wine, NOT. Africans do not know better. Africa is run by dictators, communists and subscribes to a philosophy of narcism. Africa will never change unless their leadership policies change. Africa’s worst enemy is not the so called "white man", it is THEMSELVES. Africans will destroy Africa, not the west. Let’s have a look at our track record, Sierra Leone, Angola, Zambia, Malawi, Senegal, Tunisia, Morocco, Ivory Coast, Kenya etc. etc. All of these have been run or are still being run by DICTATORS. These same people commit the biggest atrocities like ethnic cleansing against their OWN kind. These same people have the ordacity to turn around and blame the west for their crap? WTF

      one-way - 2011-06-01 08:50

      Yip. Zimmo. From a mature red wine to red acidic vinegar.

      Rea - 2011-06-01 09:22

      white people can any of you answer MK's question . What are you still doing here then if you think this counrty is sinking?

      Reppie - 2011-06-01 09:42

      @Rea, sorry we dont answer to racists and trolls, like the ANC-support base. You'll have to direct your query through their channels to get a response.

      kolobe - 2011-06-01 09:50

      jock van wyk and you think sa was matured under the apartheid regime?

      Stryder - 2011-06-01 10:11

      @Rea- We are debating the issues in the hope that a solution will emerge.

      Teemachine - 2011-06-01 10:24

      @Rea We're going, we're going! Will turn the light off when we leave. Ooops forgot there is no electricity.

      Rea - 2011-06-01 11:49

      @Stryder , ok then what is the solution?

      Stryder - 2011-06-01 12:40

      @Rea, I have no idea, maybe there isn't one, in fact that is what this article is about, I used to think that rational debate would lead to a change of mindsets, but apparently I gave to much credit. It is illogical to me that people vote for a party and then protest when the party does not perform, but then vote for them again. As I said I hope that through these debates we will find a solution, but I do not know what it is, do you?

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 14:56

      then why are you still here? exactly what are you waiting for, your dislike is so apparent that clearly you need to move. Stop wasting space and leave...There's your invitation, one whitee to another.

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 14:57

      @ZipZap, dude if you beleive that, then you were the perfect nationalist, you would have done hitler proud...The Nats were just as dysfuntional as the ANC, they were just better at hiding it.

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 15:05

      @Badballie, your assumption is that western democracy is a good thing, it and its little cousin called capitalism, where few enjoy the riches off the backs of the poor majority. Even in the Great US of A, the very essences of democracy are being questioned because of its ugly bedfellow, Greed and Power manipulation. Maybe just maybe we are at a time in history we we can redefine a democracy that works for us "Africans" (and yes i was born on the continent so i consider myself one).

      Hott1 - 2011-06-01 16:18


      John Wilderness - 2011-06-02 04:48

      Jock have you ever matured ?

  • Macho Mike - 2011-05-31 23:17

    Eish, no kidding ne? I can't belief you will ever find a mature African country. The blind leading the blind..........Poor service delivery, corruption, bribery, failure, broken promises, empty promises, violence,backstabbibg, fatal stabbings etc etc etc. An endless list of what failures you need to be successful in the new SA. People strike because of the ANC, then vote in the ANC. Just like clowns following the Ringmaster. It's not just local democracy that is not maturing, it's SA and Africa as a whole. Anyway, the pooples, eish p mean peoples have spoken and voted, now for the toyi-toying. Hau, life in Africa, she is one big almighty surprise...............

      daaivark - 2011-06-01 07:06

      Bye then. Catch a plane, a boat.... swim... anything. But save yourself and swim away.

      Tracer - 2011-06-01 08:12

      Daaivark, you are such a twat.

      Fision - 2011-06-01 08:35

      @daaivark : This country was raised from savagery and built up to be the best country in Africa by MY forefather. Now, because of politics a bunch of arrogant idiots are in power. People who, knowing they cant hack it, still refuse to ask for or accept help. No, I will NOT leave because a bunch people are being fooled into voting for power hungry idiots! Now do the world a favor and throw away your keyboard, pull your lip over your head and swallow!

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 15:16

      @fusion, so what exactly is your solution...Civil War????, do we go for guns, mow them down, blow us all to bits, what do you suggest, my fore fathers were here too, infact i guarantee they were here long before yours, they were literally involved in building much of the infrustructure that is now falling apart. But after all that i am still very proud to be a south african and part of this new country, as were my forefathers when they fought the english and then demanded independance both in Zim / Zambia and in SA. So Meneer where exactly is your solution, what do we do, because i sure as hell will not go to war for anything that the current afrikaaner stands for, specially when in Apartheid and still to a large extent, if you dont speak the taal, dan is jy maar net kak. And where the hell do you get off to judge, who says that we wern't the savages, and that maybe African liked the way that they were living. Have you actually done any research into what the tribes of Shaka and Dingaan actually beleived and taught their kids. You are a true South African Boytjie, Racist to the max.

      John Wilderness - 2011-06-02 04:59

      @Fision. Raised from savagery and built into the best country in africa ??? What kind of socks do you smoke because you are way into lala land. Since 1652 SA became a dump for most of its inhabitants so ple save us the "best country in africa" sh|t.

      Fision - 2011-06-02 08:33

      @ir8m8 : Strange that your very first reaction is to suggest violence. Makes one wonder. The solution is to get rid of any and all politicians that have ANY sort of criminal connection. Leaders should be beyond reproach. Elsewhere in the world a politician's career is over if they found out (s)he stole a sweet as a kid (for the idiots out there, yes, that was a hyperbole), but in SA it gets swept under the rug, there's alot of singing and dancing and couple of speeches that say nothing, a couple of million rands of tax payers money is wasted and everything is forgotten. The other part of the solution, and here YOU can start paying very close attention, is for the South African "majority" to drop their sense of entitlement. The world owes you nothing. You are what you make of yourself. If you keep sitting on your ass waiting for a "solution", as you just did, you will always be waiting and resenting. So please. Become part of the solution. Stop being like daaivark and asking people to leave. Instead get of your ass and do some work for a chance, if you dont know how to do it, let someone who DOES do it. ASK FOR HELP, don't just throw your hands up and blame apartheid, which is dead for almost a generation now. @John Wilderness : It IS the best country in Africa - admittedly, thats not saying much. But Im proud of what my fathers have built. And it saddens me that its all being torn down by self righteous, ignorant, arrogant and incompetent people.

  • velastardust - 2011-05-31 23:19

    Have to agree with the writer Prof. Jaap de Visser. The majority voted the 'African'way. For a one party state ! Africans have no true concept of democracy. An election is like an all out war. An election is not about voting in the best performing tax paid public servant. It is going to take a long time for the concept of democracy to sink in.

      Macho Mike - 2011-05-31 23:21

      We will never see it in this century valastardust. Evolution is a long process, with no time limits.

      John Wilderness - 2011-06-02 05:04

      You right MAcho Mike. Look how long it took Europe to understand democracy. Two world wars plus a load of corruption, disease and starvation and they only started to see the light after 1945 and some parts of it still grapple with it today. What makes you think that africans deprived of a decent education will be able to understand the concept in 17 years ?

  • Pat - 2011-05-31 23:50

    I'm sure Professor Jaap would agree, that there has been some progress in unifying the opposition, although the newspapers do not have the haziest idea how it happened. Patricia De Lille and Helen Zille merged their parties in August 2010, one month after my novel Hero of the Struggle appeared on Publisher Direct, contained in that novel was a political poster featuring three people. Patricia De Lille, Helen Zille and Terror Lekota. The novel was actually read by Patricia De Lille around June 2010, the other two may have read it by now, let us hope so for the sake of South Africa they have. The information presented by the press is often vague and ill informed, you readers have only a hazy idea of what is truly happening in South Africa, but thankfully there is still a flame of realism kept burning by writers like myself.

      FarmerBrown - 2011-06-01 05:26

      Pat you seem well informed and sensible to boot. I have not read your book but would like to.For the readers on this board, how about a reality check on the ANC perfomance past, and where they going to in future. Please bear in mind the quality of future leaders ... Malema stc.

      Lab-Rat - 2011-06-01 08:59

      Pat, where can I get a copy of your book? It sounds like interesting reading.

      Pat - 2011-06-01 13:42

      @Farmer Brown Reality check - On Friday, DA leader Helen Zille told City Press that her party was -preparing to govern South Africa after the 2019 national election, by which time “in all probability” it would be led by a black leader. @Lab Rat Books of Pat Stevens Hero of the Struggle – Amazon Books ISBN-10:978-1-58982-757-8 Hero of the Struggle – Publisher Direct ISBN-9781589827578 Politics is the Greatest Game – Amazon Books ISBN 1857565665 White Bird Under the Sun – Amazon Kindle – ASIN: BOO4URS5WO White Bird Under the Sun is under consideration by Penguin South Africa, they will give me an answer in one month’s time, while I’m waiting I posted the novel as an e-book on Amazon Kindle. The other two books you can obtain directly from Amazon or Publisher Direct, you may be able to get a copy locally from Red Pepper books, they showed an interest in stocking my books. Patricia De Lille and Steve Hofmeyr have read Hero of the Struggle, if you bump into either of them you can ask for a review, I’m sure they have some opinions on my writing. Professor Patrick Bond comments on The British Tribes of Africa (Robert Mugabe is weakening, this piece should be published now) Thanks so much Patrick, your research surely deserves a PHD in ethnography. In my e-address book there are only two others (One a KZN cane rat who wrote the attached with malevolent intent recently, and the other my auntie who whilst in Harare knew all these tribes foibles) who can appreciate your artistry so permit me to CC them. Patrick Bond EARLY REVIEWS You have a writing talent and have written an original book, something new in South African writing. Adrian Donker AD Donker Publishers Johannesburg Stunningly original, a true parody of the South African scene from the sixties onward, reads well and has tremendous atmosphere. Isabel Cooke Literary Dynamics Durban Hugely original, a clever book, brings to mind the novels of Joseph Heller and John Irving. Absurd; yet serious. Kirsty Fawkes Hodder & Stoughton London Picturesque and provocative, brash and funny, The Greatest Game does for South African politics what Catch 22 did for the Second World War. Jim Mc Evoy Janus Books London

      Lab-Rat - 2011-06-01 16:40

      Thank you Pat, I'll definitely give it a try. Hope you have lot's of success selling your books.

      Pat - 2011-06-01 17:47

      @Lab Rat Enjoy the read, you may also care to visit my website, where you will discover an alternative view on South Africa. Be careful the “free speech” neo-liberal press don’t have you arrested. The sinister fact about literary censorship is that it is largely voluntary, unpopular ideas can be silenced and inconvenient facts kept dark, without the need for any official ban. George Orwell

  • Ericthe - 2011-06-01 02:31

    They have not changed in the last 3000 years, what makes anyone think that they can change for one election over the course of 1 year! Zimbabwe personified!

      Roger 01 - 2011-06-01 07:27

      3000? More like 3 million! Evolution takes time, ask Macho Mike. Daaivark, that pain in your foot is where you shot yourself, keep digging!

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 15:20

      And again all your retorik just keeps affirming their hatred towards us, do you not realise what you are saying just embeds the idea that we are all racist, maybe thats why they wont vote a white woman in.

  • Hannes Perth - 2011-06-01 03:36

    "violent protest increased in frequency from 41.6%...) Since when is frequency measured as a percentage? It should be a number per year. Democracy takes very long to mature in Africa, I do not expect it to happen while the struggle generation is still around.

      Kenko - 2011-06-01 09:14

      First sentence - exactly. Second sentence - let me remind you that the current adults is indoctrinating their children to hate whites. They embellish as they please, painting whites as evil itself and the whole black nation, unable to think for themselves, lap it up. That is where the gruesome murders originate, perpetrated by young blacks who believe all that shit. To them, the torture, rape etc. is payback for what whites supposedly did. The reality of our past has long been repainted to look like whites were bad, and blacks good and just.

      Rea - 2011-06-01 12:28

      @Kenko It might come as a surprise to you but blacks also get killed ,raped etc. You obviously read Beeld because always the front page is about whites or famers killed by blacks .

  • Luvuyo - 2011-06-01 03:46

    no talk now,two parties are competing ANC and DA,in my point of view,It will be tough to identify which one is lacking in delivering service to citizens,but we have created competition by ourselves,ha!!!!,no one to be blamed

  • MK - 2011-06-01 04:11

    The opposition is not mature . For eg the da top policy makes are all white and you want black people to ignore that fact . The prof is crazy if he thinks we don’t see that . What do expect from a white afriforum prof anyway?

      sainsaudi - 2011-06-01 05:44

      MK, the very glaring fact is that South Africa is a multi-cultural, multilingual country, and Black people are a part of that melting pot. It is unfortunate that politics in South Africa is seen as a soccer match between blacks and whites, and then when the results are out, people resort to protests against the very people they voted for and killing people because they are different in belief or race.What has happened is that the ANC needs to play the race card in order to justify its very existence. It has in more ways than one failed the people of this country. Education is the first failure - a system that has dumbed down the population, not educated it, overnight wealth for the ANC elite while the rest of the nation suffers, and ignorant clinging to Marxism/Leninism which was more brutal than Apartheid, and a complete socio-economic disaster.And now the Info Bill to prevent people from knowing how the ANC elite are ripping the nation off! You do the arithmetic! We must start being South African, and look beyong the narrow confines of race.

      Stuartthom - 2011-06-01 06:12

      yes and tax payers are also all white and how many white officials do u see stealing taxpayers money that would have benefitted u and ur ignorant brothers. ur grandchildren will be pictured on western tv grovelling for food as is the norm in africa, begging for aid from the clolonial imperialist whiteys

      daaivark - 2011-06-01 07:09

      Afriforum? Don't be so thick. He's from UWC. Or is reading a problem?

      Mad Hatter - 2011-06-01 08:19

      The ANC is not mature .Anc top policy makers are black and you want white people to ignore that fact, MK is crazy if he thinks we don't see that .What do you expect from a black Anc unqualified anyway?

      Rea - 2011-06-01 08:52

      Ok then Mad Hatter good point , then black people should vote for ANC and da will get minority votes . ANC wins hands down. I think the solution is to get a party thats in the middle and the DA can do that if they can put more blacks in key positions otherwise nothing will change . Not tea ladies LOL

  • PikeLee - 2011-06-01 06:27

    I saw on the news this morning, from Journalists on the ground in Tripoli. They say it was clear that Zuma spoke about anything but an exit strategy. I would love to know what they did speak about then...

      daaivark - 2011-06-01 07:10

      So ask these journalist friends of yours, if they're so incredibly well informed. Don't keep us holding our breath in suspense. Break the news.

      PikeLee - 2011-06-01 07:55

      Do I look like your slave?. Try watching the news yourself. But then again, it was a western journalist reporting on a 3rd force. They obviously have an agenda and are lying. And you obviously cant read. Or you didn't register what I said. Go have your coffee and come back. What exactly is keeping you in suspense? Your attempt at sarcasm is dismal to say the least, and very out of context. Please, continue holding your breath otherwise...

      Matt - 2011-06-01 14:33

      Maybe they spoke about which taps are the best to install in a shower? Maybe JZ wanted to get tips on how to become a tyrant that can rule for 40 years? Who knows...

      PikeLee - 2011-06-02 06:13

      @matt. haha, that is more along my line of thinking. I hope at least that Anton Hammerl was brought up. "the freedom of information bill" is step one to a dictatorship(speculation), so who knows...

      Martin du Plessis - 2011-06-02 20:13

      They prob spoke about a "How to stay in power as long as humanly possible" Strategy. Sounds like a repeat of Bob, if you ask me.

  • Boerseun - 2011-06-01 06:29

    Thus black racism is alive and well.

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 15:23

      so is the white racism my freind, have you read the rest of the page?

      John Wilderness - 2011-06-02 05:08

      Yes we know that racism towards black people is alive and well in SA and has been around for quite a few centuries.

  • Thingamebob - 2011-06-01 06:41

    During the nationalist rule, the afrikaans voted NP and the English voted DA. There were very few that actually voted for the other side. The NP after winning in '48 divided the country up that allowed them to always win. They were no different to the ANC of today.

      daaivark - 2011-06-01 07:10


      allie - 2011-06-01 08:49

      The difference is that the NP didn`t steal the country dry and if you have proof to the contrerary,please show us.I have been around longer than the NP and i can see how you have been brainwashed.The money went mostly to the upkeep of 40 million black babies ,while trying to built an infrastructure for this land.Show some gratitude AH.

      Kenko - 2011-06-01 09:36

      I always wonder if statements like these isn't a bit simplistic. The NP those days really was convinced that apartheid was the correct way to run the country. They knew the limitations of blacks and wanted them to catch up with the rest, at a pace which suited blacks better. One thing they didn't count on, was that undertheir protection and care the black population would explode. It was pure numbers that turned the tide. While whites grasped the fact that many children would be to the detriment of all with all the mouths to feed, blacks did just the opposite because they knew their children would be looked after. And that is what must change - NO government can afford to support a useless majority with the taxes of a few.

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 15:24

      actually the CP held the opposition not the DA, they (the DA) were a very small minority party.

  • BigD - 2011-06-01 06:53

    The Prof has a point. My thoughts are abit different. The huge support for the anc and yet large numbers of protests take place is confusing. The people vote for the anc because they can know they can bully them and with strikes and protests and force the anc's hand. That shows me that the anc is a gutless party that does not know how to stand up to the people. Many also vote for the anc hoping to get on the gravy train.

      bent5000 - 2011-06-02 16:03

      You make a valid point BigD, but I think you're giving the "ANC voter" too much credit though.

      Martin du Plessis - 2011-06-02 20:15

      An interesting idea....

  • WoodworkPh.D - 2011-06-01 06:58

    It's an African thing. Surrendering of power is a no go, rather genocide

      Rea - 2011-06-01 08:23

      African leaders should work on that and follow the eg of Mandela but at the same time a president was recalled in my country peacefully , you need to give the ANC credit for that.

  • Prime_Evil - 2011-06-01 07:00

    NO SH!T Sherlock!

  • ZipZap - 2011-06-01 07:02

    lol, africans get what africans vote for. They enjoy violence, why would they change it?

  • anti crime - 2011-06-01 07:04

    This now is a good will steadily increase within the next 5 people work on an eye for an eye will NEVER change it..

  • Dgs - 2011-06-01 07:06

    Well what do we expect when 90%+ of the voters are uneducated.

  • Dgs - 2011-06-01 07:07

    Well what do we expect when 90%+ of the voters are uneducated.

      Rea - 2011-06-01 08:41

      Yes we are illiterate because of Bantu education . More and black kids go to white schools . Slowly but surely we will get there.

      Reppie - 2011-06-01 09:50

      @Rea, Nah think you got it a bit wrong and right. Bantu education was a contributing factor, but the main factor was the 'No Education, before freedom' stance alot of 'black' people took during the apartheid era. So in affect they were their own worst enemy in the end.

      Rea - 2011-06-01 12:00

      @Reppie - Are you saying we should have stayed in the Bantu class and got Bantu Edu? Then yes rather freedom before Bantu .Now my kids have the best education , same as whites .

      Reppie - 2011-06-01 13:07

      @Rea, nope not what im saying at all. I confirmed bantu education is a CONTRIBUTING factor to the illiterate problem we are facing today. HOWEVER this is not the only factor. The fact that people PURPOSEFULLY shunned ANY and ALL forms of education in the name of "FREEDOM" also made a large contribution... and now because they shunned that "education", in the long run we are sitting with a population that is mostly uneducated. They are also complaining because of daily problems, which Perhaps (or perhaps not) could have been resolved if they had the neccesary education. Education = Self Empowerment = Self Sustainability

      Rea - 2011-06-01 14:03

      @Reppie -Ja but if the parents are not educated and the teachers are sub- standard who will show a young black kid the way? Most black people didn't have the resources to shun anyway . Now there is internet and access to infomation . We will get there .

      Reppie - 2011-06-01 16:01

      @Rea. Exactly. (Though I wish to point out not all teachers are sub-standard) you get Excellent teachers both in white community and black community schools. But now because of the lack in foresight bny the previous generation (the parents) the country now sits with a problem. We cannot sustain the current population. As their are not enough educated people coming up with innovative idea, ensuring job creation. You should remember that bantu education was implimented so that the black people could easily adapt and basically start their own initiatives/economy on their own pace instead of immediately consuming them into the more advanced civilization. In retrospect this was perhaps not the wisest move, but however flawed the plan was (and it was flawed), the idea behind it is what is crucial. The alternative was ofcourse: The Roman Empire. They tried to 'conquer' the world by incorporating all of the lesser developed peoples into the Advanced Roman empire. In the end, they just killed themselves from the inside out. I see it as a decision had to be made between Subjugation vs Integration.

      Reppie - 2011-06-01 16:16

      Only problem is in the end the integration wasnt very succesful either.

  • Shorts1 - 2011-06-01 07:10

    I question the validity of this statement in certain respects. In my view, and I don't pretend to be an expert, local democracy is maturing, albeit very, very slowly. If one analises the results in each of the regions within the Western Cape and in the metropolitan / bigger cities right across the country, there is clear evidence of more voters showing stronger support for the political party that is seen to be highly capable of significantly improved service delivery. In the rural / smaller urban areas however this is not the case. Here most voters tend to be less educated & much more impoverished. Voting is therefore based on historic liberation ( from apartheid ) related sentiments. Municipal services delivery is nevertheless becoming increasingly more important to the extent that should the ANC fail yet again to deliver over the next five years, 2016 will see a further swing across to the DA ( provided of course that they now perform effectively in each of those areas in which they have established a majority position. )

  • kolobe - 2011-06-01 07:13

    south african whites treat blacks badly and for some reason expect the very same blacks to vote for them. da has reached its growth ceiling

      WoodworkPh.D - 2011-06-01 07:26

      Did you consult your sangoma on this? Be careful you will anger your

      FarmerBrown - 2011-06-01 07:34

      ????? Don't generalise. Your comment shows racial prejudice !Let me ask you... when you vote ANC ... what is it that appeals to you? Try this for a comparison Germany 1945 - bombed to ruins ... 1970 one of the top economies in the world. South Africa 1994 ANC inherit a functioning economy.... what the hell have these clowns achieved ? Surely Kolobe you have to question their capabilty.

      kolobe - 2011-06-01 07:52

      FarmerBrown thats the problem with whites,they think sa was 1st class. maybe in your area. the only difference now is blacks have better access to employment which in return affects you. bombing of germany didnt take their skills away thats they made a quick come back. how do you expect currently leading blacks to have sufficient skills when you fed them bantu education?

      Felix - 2011-06-01 07:56

      Your brain reached it's growth ceiling..... When you were three.

      kolobe - 2011-06-01 08:12

      Felix is that the best argument you could come up with?

      photonic - 2011-06-01 08:29

      Kolobe, the question is what has the ANC done to rectify the education system. Rather than improve it they have actually brought the standard down even more. Thank goodness for private schools....

      SYLVERSTAR - 2011-06-01 08:32

      The Bosch HAD (and still have) skills. Where are yours?

      Rea - 2011-06-01 08:41

      You are right Kolobe , and thats what white people don't get . If your poor and are treated badly by whites, the only weapon you have is your black vote and its working because its frusting white people . Treat us better and you will see real change .

      SOOTHSAYER - 2011-06-01 09:05

      Kolobe......the Devil Associates supporters always prove us wrong with their level of stupidity....and they expect us to respect them. They can't even derive logic in what U're trying to explain.....they think being white is always right, always smart, always better than any other race in the world! very soon they will claim that AA and BBEEE policies are not helping South Africa, and they will ask the UN to impose sanctions in our country...well the truth is, the world respects South Africa to the level unforseen by the oppressor....a very simply math equation, they fail every day they comment in these websites....."AA + BBEEE are a by-product of Apartheid & White Elegal Domination"......can U really undo the unjust of serving 4million ppl, at the expense on 40 million, when we inherited this governement we had huge backlogs, on Sanitation, Houses, Black Management Skills, proper Education......unfortunately for the racists........God prevailed....2day ANC is doing much better than the Apartheid Government, believe it....the rednecks & the whites supremists will always fail to convince clever darkies in voting against the ANC ..... 2014, is around the corner.....DA (Devil's Associates) will drop by 10%, and the ANC will get 2/3 Majority..@ farmerbrown, what functioning economy...the one that served only whites, South African economy improved from 1994 ..U will be shocked if you studied doing your economics properly...whites practised currency manipulitaion before 1994..

      Smaal - 2011-06-01 09:07

      I hate politicians but I’m forced to choose the lesser of two evils. Reality is a different beast all together. What I like about reality is that when I stand back and see what blacks are doing to blacks I can honestly say.... black deserves blacks. A black man will voluntarily suffer and be exploited as long as it is at the hand of a black man. Of course someone needs to be “blamed” for the failures. I don’t suffer from the liberalism plague nor do I suffer from the black guilt syndrome. I simply have no sympathy left. Hats off to the ones who refuse to be victims and stand up and do things for themselves and to the ones who don’t ..... I wish onto you rich a black man of ANC stature.

      liesl - 2011-06-01 09:18

      How are you badly treated? I honestly don't understand the argument that blacks are badly treated by whites, currently, in this day and age. I have many black colleagues - as a matter of fact I work for a corporate that has achieved and maintained its BEE status for a while now, meaning that in our whole department I think we are three whites. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. My colleagues and I do lunch and drinks together. I do not see this treating badly you are complaining about.

      Felix - 2011-06-01 09:32

      Sorry Kolobe but I have witnessed your 'debating' skills. You are merely trolling with anc rhetoric and engaging in an argument with you is about as usefull as pleading with my car to start. So I just resort to sarcastic insults as it makes me warm and fuzzy inside, much like the feeling you get by getting everyone worked up here. Have a nice day piggy.

      Psychotron - 2011-06-01 09:52

      I will treat you well if you treat me well. It's called mutual respect you moron and because you vomit up crap like this makes me not want to have anything to do with you as an individual. I always treat people fairly first and make my mind up about them once I get to know them (blacks/whites/indians etc.). It's just that people like you are trying to keep the racial divide whereas I am completely happy to live and work and be friends with blacks. You plainly just hate whites.

      Ian - 2011-06-01 09:56

      Kolobe - you must be like 85 years old! And if your treated badly, perhaps it because of your atttitude. Also, if you rape, pillage and kill the white people how else would you expect to be treated.

      liesl - 2011-06-01 10:12

      Sorry Kolobe, not where I work. In my department specifically, the people I am referring to were all appointed on the same salary scale as mine. Most corporates work in a very structured manner when it comes to salaries, promotional opportunities, etc. The company has a very active BEE policy, which means that as a white person I have distinctly fewer opportunities for promotion. This does not mean that I do not enjoy interacting or working with all my colleagues, despite my understandable irritation at the status quo.

      Kgomotso - 2011-06-01 11:27

      Sure Kolobe we inherited problems from their Apartheid regime now they think they can do better that we are doing. Only were they lived was habitable and that constitutes 10% of SA 90% were mankind lived was a mess nothing done and in fact if they were in power today nothing would have changed. Hypocrites. They are lousy and have failed and they think surely 17years should erased the memory of how they ran the Country it has not. You failed dismally you will not be entrusted ever again with Mzansi and have yourselves to blame.

      Matt - 2011-06-01 14:38

      @ Kolobe, may I just point out that Nazi Germany killed 6 million Jews, after subjecting them to years of discrimination... the Jews learned to forgive the German people after a while. It's been 17 years of black rule, don't you think that if the Jews could forgive the Germans for being exterminated, you could forgive the whites for lesser crimes?

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 15:37

      Actually FarmerBrown, one of the fundamental driving factors behind the colapse of the Apartheid system and its government was the failing economy, because of the widespread sactions that were imposed the country could no longer "cut it", its direct foreign investment had plummeted to next to nothing. The Rand was fixed by the government and because of the new dispensation and the releasing of exchange controls it spiralled downwards. Your comment also has alot of room for debate as most economists will agree that the economy from 2003 to 2008 was the best since 1964-74 (at the start of the sanctions era). So please dont pull spacial facts out of your rectal orifice to try and suit an argument that is somewhat based on a different ideal.

  • Slapper - 2011-06-01 07:18

    When a guy like Malema stands out and is branded as an "Intelligent" youth leader, we have real problems. If his supporters believe that Malema is intelligent, what does that make them?

      Rea - 2011-06-01 09:07

      Even the biggest critic of Malema on talk radio 702, Mr Robbie admitted that Malema is no fool . We all saw him during the trial . Ps understand this , he represents what black youth are thinking . He will be re-elected as president again .

      Slapper - 2011-06-01 09:28

      @Rea, Yeah, Intelligent like Stalin. The guy is super dangerous and though I agree that his moronic followers will probably re-elect him, It does not bode well for South Africa. John Robbie has never been a good judge of character and as a Rugby Player, he would probably think Daffy Duck was not a quack.

      Psychotron - 2011-06-01 09:54

      @Rea - so the black youth is waiting for racial genocide, is that what you are saying?

      Rea - 2011-06-01 12:05

      @Psychotron - NO that’s not what I mean . All I'm saying is he is not a joke as the media portrays him. That’s what the afri lawyer thought and all of us saw what who was a joke.

      Electronic Cemetery - 2011-06-02 17:08

      @Rea, simply not being a fool is a far cry from being intelligent!

  • Peter - 2011-06-01 07:29

    This is what happens when illiterate masses, who don't/can't/are not allowed to think for themselves, want to live in a democracy. Only free thinkers can hope to start a business and create wealth and prosperity.

      Rea - 2011-06-01 08:31

      Yes we are illiterate because of Bantu education . More and black kids go to white schools . Slowly but surely we will get there.

      Psychotron - 2011-06-01 09:56

      @rea - have you not had 17 years to study and become educated? Seems like your "students" prefer to burn down schools still rather than actually learn. There is an advert on TV where there are blacks kids playing soccer with no ball and shoes etc. Then you see them with a uniform and ball and the ad is about kitting kids out for soccer. Shouldn't they rather be getting an education rather than playing soccer?

      Kenko - 2011-06-01 10:07

      Rea, not to be belligerent, but you are illiterate not because of Bantu education. Bantu education was invented after it became clear blacks would never attain the level required in white schools. That's why the standard was lowered so drastically after apartheid ended; now blacks can think they made it in "normal" schools while in fact, the whole nation is dumbed down. The common denominator is also the lowest.

      Rea - 2011-06-01 12:15

      @Kenko - If it was true then why did they shoot the students and force the Bantu edu on us . If we are that stupid then it was easy to prove. Whites and blacks would get that same edu and let results speak for every 1 to see .

      Matt - 2011-06-01 14:40

      @ Kenko - dumbing down the curiculum is not just an SA thing - it happens in the West as well (UK, USA...). I was educated in Europe and yet watching the Learning Channel on S-ANC3, I was stunned - we never learned all that stuff in Holland...

      Bongza.GP - 2011-06-01 14:57

      Psycho, have you not had 17 years of reverse racism? Why still no white maids and garden boys yet?

  • Rikhogrande - 2011-06-01 07:36

    Its not indicative of democracy not maturing it is indicative of the fact that black people are scared of white people. In order for this to change white people must do more to convince black people that they will not oppress them if they ever come into power. It mus be understood that our recent history and current segregated society breeds fear among groups. Note the above also applies for white people.

      SYLVERSTAR - 2011-06-01 08:34

      The white people, I know arn't interested in opressing anybody. They just want to get on with their lives.

      bar-one - 2011-06-01 08:44

      What are you talking about? White people should never come into power again.There should be no party identifying itself with colour .The parties should be about policies and ability to realise them , not colour. You are no different to the ANC(they call themselves a black party) . How do you expect others to change if you are not evolving

      Abnox - 2011-06-01 09:18

      "Rome was not build in one day" Thus Racism will not collapse in one day. With all the strikes going on maybe this is a good thing. The masses are starting to realize that empty promises are being made. So the ppl are taking action against this. Sure ppl are getting hurt in this. But thus is life. "Equivalent exchange" You have to give too get.

      Greybeard - 2011-06-01 09:41

      The basis of democracy - One Man, One Vote. How is it possible for 9% of the population to rule? The DA cannot take power without their internal make-up reflecting the demographics of the country. Do you honestly think that the majority of their constituents will allow ethnically or racially based domination by a minority? This is not rocket science people. The whites had to make the decision to stop voting with their emotions, overcome the propaganda and brainwashing, and choose between civil war or relinquishing power. They made that decision knowing full well that their lives would change forever. Let's get on with building this country people, childhood is OVER. Time to make adult decisions and get on with it!

      Psychotron - 2011-06-01 09:57

      And you are still afraid of the minority for some reason.

  • HueyPNewton - 2011-06-01 07:41

    To all the whites who complain about blacks who keep voting the ANC back into power: Please note the ANC has been in power for 17 years. My question is; why did it take 48 years for you guys to vote out the NATS/Apartheid?? This is just an honest question. I'd appreciate honest non-racist responses.

      Stryder - 2011-06-01 08:35

      @HueyPNewton - No one denies that apartheid was a backward system. Basically the Zeitgeist of white South Africans had to shift, this is much like evolution, but in a mental/philosophical way. Much like the same countries that were leaders in the slave trade find in abhorrent today and would never ever allow it to happen again. The thing is that it is possible to learn from other's mistakes/progress, in other words when we see one group change something and it works, then that should lead to a quantum leap in other groups who then suddenly will shift in the same direction. Therefore one would expect that black South Africans would learn from the mistakes made by other groups, instead of having to go through the whole evolutionary process from scratch as you suggest i.e. 17 vs. 48 years. A second reason that Apartheid too longer than it could have to be removed was the white fear of what would happen should black people get the vote. Much like dictators hang on to power for fear of what will happen to them should they lose power. Unfortunately in many ways the fear of the "swart gevaar" is actually becoming more and more justified as the ANC continues to remain in power based very clearly on a racist voting mindset, alienating minorities and anyone opposed to their rule, as has been repeated time and time again in other newly born Africa democracies.

      Mad Hatter - 2011-06-01 09:12

      @heuy - many reasons ,fundamentally though the Nats strategists had engineered the policitcal and social paradigm to ensure retention of power dispite a deep divide. There had been a move away from the rigid enforcement of segregationist laws during World War II, amid fears integration would eventually lead the nation to racial assimilation, the legislature established the Sauer Commission to investigate the effects of the United Party's policies. The commission concluded integration would bring about a "loss of personality" for all racial groups(globalisation fears of today/cultural degradation ect).There were many lobbyists for the concept of seperateness ,using fears ,historical conflict and economic doom as tools.In the latter years of Apartheid rule ,the armed resistance served the Nats well to retain power ,it gave them a 'moral' footing and reason to perpetuate the status quo of racial division from the enormous international pressure of the late sixties. Another reason is back then there was no facebook , twitter and a restricted press which mean't getting the truth and adverse opinion out was a tough exercise(imagine if the ANC had Facebook in 1950's?).The first referendum on the issue which preceded the release of Mandela and the 94 elections was voted by majority for national unity. The issue with your question would be that voting against the Apartheid Govt was for its abolishment and not a transition of governance in a democratic framework .

      HueyPNewton - 2011-06-01 09:19

      @Stryder. "white fear of what would happen should black people get the vote.". Most black voters have the same fear, what would happen should white people get the vote. "one would expect that black South Africans would learn from the mistakes made by other groups". Why didn't white South Africans learn from the mistakes of other countries(Nazi Germany, USA etc) who had abolished discrimination before them?? "based very clearly on a racist voting mindset". Since 1994, the then NNP, DA, and FF have received a combined 25% of the vote. Guess which race is voting for those parties? Now how can you come here and accuse blacks of voting along racial lines?

      Stryder - 2011-06-01 09:26

      @Huey-The ANC's entire campaign was based on race. People who voted DA did so based on service delivery not race. If you look carefully you will see that 25% is more than just minorities. White people have already proven that they are evolved beyond racial oppression by voting yes in 1992, there for black people's fears are unfounded and merely the result of the ANC's racial propaganda. As for comparing the Nats to the Nazi's...well if that comparison was valid then there would be a lot less black people around.

      one-way - 2011-06-01 09:29

      Same reason as most countries pull out or disengage from current wars, the body bags of the soldiers comming from the bush war became unacceptable in numbers for parents ,population and politics.

      Matt - 2011-06-01 16:09

      Another factor for the NP getting power in 1948 (maybe not in later years) was that the Afrikaner was scared of the Brits. 50 years earlier the Brits slaughtered them in the most cruel of ways, and for many years a lot of Afrikaners were poor whites, competing with non-whites for menial jobs - whereas the Brits were doing just fine. Under Jan Smuts, SA was becoming more liberal and the poor-white issue was largely addressed, but the Afrikaners of the day felt FEAR - of a return to the bad old days. So they voted in the NP... and when you have Afrikaners voting NP and the English voting UP, and there are more Afrikaners than English, well obviously the NP woul stay in power for a long time...

  • mshini wam - 2011-06-01 07:43

    My post has been removed. Damn! when i taught we are engaging in healthy debate, making comparison between DA and ANC on election poll..Truth hurts

      kolobe - 2011-06-01 07:53

      the moderators here dont want to see any pro black post

      Smaal - 2011-06-01 08:09

      White male of European decent, employed, very successful and as such everything is my fault. Thus I’m oppressing you, Sorry! :(

      Tracer - 2011-06-01 08:17

      thats not true, News24 actually run a highly sophisticated idiot filter, you guys don't stand a chance.

      Ockert - 2011-06-01 08:23

      How is that possible - news24 are pro ANC, (taught ? - Thought), and the article is not about DA or ANC - its about non delivery and the voting for the guys that do not deliver on their promises - or so I thought.

      Lab-Rat - 2011-06-01 09:06

      Tracer - "News24 actually run a highly sophisticated idiot filter" - Then how come kolobe's comments make it through?

      Psychotron - 2011-06-01 09:59

      It's called clicking on the "report comment" link. @Kolobe - again you spew forth the racism. I am all for blacks uplifting themselves in the economy, the problem is they want other to do it for them.

      Tracer - 2011-06-01 10:21

      @Lab Rat.....the problem is the code was developed by the same guys that did the Joburg billing system........

      Kgomotso - 2011-06-01 11:47

      @ Psychotron Blacks have always been pushing themselves, it was the policies you placed that inhibited Blacks to progress economically. Black went and still going to school what happened when they graduated a stupid uneducated White man is placed to be his supervisor earning 100% more why Irish structure a White man on top. Today those stupid policies are changing Black people who have pushed themselves against all odds to acquire education, started businesses are climbing ladders and getting tenders and White hypocrites are crying tears because they thought it will be their territory forever.

      Tracer - 2011-06-01 13:15 what policies affected all the blacks north of South Africa?? They don't strike me as a race of people that are constantly pushing themselves to do better.....and there's certainly no white men inhibiting their growth....but I don't see any growth....go figure....???

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 15:43

      i am more than satisfied with the results, te DA Gained many more votes than the ANC Lost, that in itself means that the opposition is strengthening, it means that there is a much more healthier balance of power, it means that i am represented as well as you, now let them get on with doing their jobs, which means delivery to ALL South Africans.

  • Rasky - 2011-06-01 07:43

    If the masses never burnt their schools down in the 70s and 80s and the 90s they would be in a much better democratic way of thinking today.

      Mad Hatter - 2011-06-01 08:14

      If bobby skinstad didn't jerk off percy montgomery we wouldn't have won the world cup , doesn't excuse F'ing things up now

      Matt - 2011-06-01 08:56

      @ Mad Hatter - a little chuckle here - watch the movie Flash Gordon - I am convince Percy time-travelled back to 1980 to star in that movie ;-)

      Kenko - 2011-06-01 10:14

      HueyPNewton, come again with that "butchering" story? You got it wrong my man. Withholding the vote and moving unproductive communities from fertile ground in order to establish farms to feed a nation barely equates to butchering.

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 15:47

      but would they have burnt them down if we had given them an education system equal to ours?, if we had accepted that they were intellectually capable of being our equals. Think of it, if we had invested correctly in all the education needs of our people from 48 maybe then the people would be more educated about the votes that they are casting, so essentially we are responsible for (as Monica put it) their Uneducated vote.

  • Riley786 - 2011-06-01 07:49

    Politics remain politics and people loyal to their party will vote on loyalty not service delivery its a culture. I am however concerned that most of the money going to provinces go for salary payments hence you have a very low budget for improvements. Infrastructure improvements which also come from national budget generally happens thought quality of workmanship remain a challenge. Remember there are much more municipalities than what there was in the past hence a bigger spread of fiscal budget for salaries. So this could be one of the reasons why improvements is not happening. I believe society and government need to work together.

  • Lyndatjie - 2011-06-01 08:01

    Now according to the Congress of SA Trade Unions this is a racist article because we are grossly exagerating the lack of voter maturity. If I understand South African politics correctly - then reality based facts are not allowed because the government wants to grow public awareness ONLY when it shows them in a positive light. So ultimately its the media's fault that there are loads and loads more bad news to report than actual good news. Eureka! I'm now a politician because I finally have seen the political lightbulb and peered through the dimly lit field of broken promises and distorted facts. Viva Mushroom mentality - viva.

  • DeonOlivier - 2011-06-01 08:04

    Since the anc has been in power the eduscation system has collapsed black south africans will always remain ignorant its the only way the anc can remain in power. The anc has read mao tse tsung's handbook of how to stay in power, dumb up the population vote for your tribe and how to make a thousand children with one penis

  • rono - 2011-06-01 08:05

    blah! blah! blah! bLAH! blah! bLAH!

      SYLVERSTAR - 2011-06-01 08:37

      and BLAH

  • MacDaKnife - 2011-06-01 08:06

    Its a sorry state. People cannot make up their own mind who to vote for but swayed by empty promises by the ruling party. ANC have got their numbers and will continue with their failed promises. Maybe this is the reason education takes a back seat so that its easy to manipulate the uneducated.

      Enuff - 2011-06-01 13:42

      Not "maybe" bud ;-)

  • SYLVERSTAR - 2011-06-01 08:26

    If you keep doing the same thing and expect a different result, you are a prooven idiot. Imagine.............................

  • TheUgly - 2011-06-01 08:29

    The problem is intelligence. You can't suddenly make people smart.

  • ratex - 2011-06-01 08:31

    Hang on, are you saying that most of the protests are about what the cANcer said they would deliver and then did not? Shit you are an absolute genius to come up with that conclusion. And here we were, Joe Public, thinking that it was some other reason. We are truly blessed to have people with your intelect running the show. Bottom line is that most of the cANCer votes are an emmotional based vote, they have very little if anything to do with "what is right" for SA, until this mindset changes, the voting patterns and ultimate governance of SA will never change. It's like pissing into a fan, you do it once and you get wet, logic dictates that if I do it agin I will get wet again, so go pee somewhere else, but no the cANCer voters pee into the same fan again and suprise, suprise, they get wet again. The differnce is that they then say, oh this happened because a whitey put the fan there? WTF

  • ZumaDooma - 2011-06-01 08:56

    What is the point of democracy when idiots are in majority?

  • Matt - 2011-06-01 08:58

    Just a suggestion - how about cutting the municipalities up into far smaller municipalities? EG that Germiston has a municipality, Benoni area has one, instead of one big behemoth called Ekurhuleni that does 100% f*** all? That way, municipalities have less to focus on and can therefore focus on their own area better; they can also be far easier voted out if they don't deliver... just a thought...

      ir8m8 - 2011-06-01 15:54

      because genius, who then subsidizes area like thokoza and the like where the majority are living under the breadline. The reason the consolidation occured is so that the base could be widened and more funds made available to uplift previously disadvantaged areas.

      Matt - 2011-06-02 11:54

      @ ir8m8 - what is Thokoza etc. doing to uplift themselves? And even still, if Thokoza was its own municipality, or fell under another town but was still relatively small, those people could then vote out their councillors if they didn't get what they need.

  • Genesistt - 2011-06-01 08:58

    As long as the habit of voting for a party because your daddy and grandpa and uncle and brother's auntie's boyfriend's nephew votes for them remains nothing will change. People need to start voting for the party they believe will deliver the best service. Not the party that their tribal leader or patriarchal leader tells them to.

  • ratex - 2011-06-01 08:59

    @Penada, i agree with some of your comments, BUT. Taking the country back by force would have destroyed you in months. Nobody would do any business with you and you would not be able to travel anywhere. The entire infrastructure would have collapsed. Next, South Africans are NOT cheap labour, they are an overpaid, under educated and under productive labour force, FACT. We want more for less? What fertile lands are you on about? When the colonists arrived you lot were doing SUBSISTANCE farming, so all you ever grew were crops for your family. You never did mass commercial farming. In 80% of the cases where the govt has given farms back to the "rightful" owners, these same commercially viable farms have become fallow run down fields within ONE YEAR, FACT. No issues with RDp or uplifting poor people etc, but BEE, BEEEE or whatever you want to call it DOES NOT WORK. You cannot force tokenism or any of that crap into the workplace. Ability should be the driver, but in SA it is a skin colour choice. And the ANC says that they are not a racist organisation, No, you are a completely racisist organisation. I just happened to see a matric certificate lying at a photocopier at my work the other day. The highest mark on this certificate was a d? WTF. When i started to work a D was like kissing your sister, you know you enjoyed it but you dont want to tell anyone about it. We needed at least a c or even a b to get anywhere and this was before OBE, so you had to actually pass.

      penada - 2011-06-01 11:01

      Hi i agree taking the country by force would have destroyed us all, the fact that they didn't though is commendeable, esp wit all that animosity yes, SAm now does not pay its labour force cheaply, true...i was talking about during apartheid when the colour bar was in effect, which reserved jobs for whites (like what is happening today), and whatever jobs blacks had they paid cheaply in comparison to their white colleagues. we were subsistance farmers in the 19th the 20th century when racial segregation was formalis3ed into government policy in the form of apartheid subsistance farming did not exist. i am sure you are well aware that blacks were redistributed around the country to make way for white settlements and white businesses... i agree that land redistribution has been a mess, but so has the concept of willing buyer will seller never worked...perhaps the govt should look more into the use it or lose it policy and develop skills... i agree BBBEE does not work, i said that in my post above.... i am not ANC OBE cannot work in this country but that is another debate all together., but equally when i graduated there was a dumn white girl who should not have passed med school but she did, and i was there at her examinations, equally one white classmate passed both medicine and Bcom in the same year as a full time undergrad for both courses...this was u tell me...i think it cuts both ways...i am not saying tho that i condone incompetence

  • Sparkyisgoodisright - 2011-06-01 09:02

    Maybe its more a case of rather vote for the devil they know than the devil they dont know , or think they know of , because of the older generation who still speaks to the younger generation about the years of oppression ???? . As whites we may always be seen by the other races as the ones who oppressed while in power ??? Are'nt we as whites guilty of this too ??? Many of us have been touched by crime and what do we do ,,, we make it a racist issue and our children hear it thus we actually fuel the racism fire . Is it any different anywhere else in the world , i.e , the poor are usually responsible for most of the crime , the poor usually disadvantaged in some way , be it education or whatever . In time all will improve and democracy will too . How long ??? I would say about three generations before the sins of the fathers have less and less affect on the next generation ??

  • zwelihle - 2011-06-01 09:06

    So "The voting behaviour is not based on the same consideration as protest behaviour." My question then is what consideration is the voting behavior based on? Hope that the same people who failed to deliver during previous terms will deliver now? Or fear of change? Or what?

      Stryder - 2011-06-01 09:33

      It is based on Race.

  • Flash - 2011-06-01 09:13

    @penada, I just have to comment on your statements. So you think that by murdering and stealing everything from the 9% will enrich the 91%. Maybe somebody can educate you a little on mathematics: If everything the white people has built up is stolen and divided to all the blacks, all you will accomplish is more poverty, with each having 10% of what the white originally had. As for my 10%, they will still be ruddy poor! So go ahead! Knock yourselves out! You had 17 years of black ANC racist regime ruling and poverty has increased! Service delivery has disappeared, why do you not accept failure of your racism and repent of it? We did!

      Rea - 2011-06-01 09:27

      Even the Da steals from the rich and gives to the poor. As the madam or her tea lady.

      Psychotron - 2011-06-01 10:03

      @Rea - there you go again, can't keep your forked tongue behind your teeth can you? Have a little respect because you demand from us to respect your leaders. Why do you support a garden boy called Malema who is racist white hater? I support Zille and her Tea Girl because they don't hate blacks and other races.

  • Dan - 2011-06-01 09:32

    That's why I have to say: Those poor suffering people actually deserve what they are getting - they asked for it by voting. They suffer, receive NO service delivery, then some promisses before elections, then they vote for the same party, just to again receive no service and only promisses before the next election - then they vote for the same party again. Really have nothing to complain about - they gave their "unperforming" party the mandate to keep up the no service delivery.

      HueyPNewton - 2011-06-01 09:55

      Thats why I have to say "Those white people actually deserve what they are getting - they asked for it by oppressing us. Really have nothing to complain about - they gave their racist party 48 years to keep up Apartheid."

      DJ Lovett - 2011-06-01 12:20

      @HueyPNewton: You obviously had no problem with the Nats when they were in power then, some people forget the struggle was about in the first place. People like you don't want a better South Africa for all, you want vengeance. Pity you are not man enough to come out and just say it! The ANC is failing, sure they have accomplished a lot in the past, but that ANC is no longer the same ANC we have in power today, when you have members (Malema, Manyi etc) actively creating racial division, most times right in front of the countries leaders in some cases, you have to ask yourself about the validity of the Freedom Charter the ANC keeps referring back too, you know the one that was pushing for a "non racial South Africa" amongst other things. It loses validity, its like the bible in some respects you cant preach some passages whilst totally ignoring others.

  • phumlanimelusi - 2011-06-01 09:35

    It's easier to sit back and label voters as stupid, idiots etc but truth of the matter is if you are a responsible citizen you should respect the ballot decisions that other people make even if those decisions are opposite to yours. In short words it's called being democratic. If you are so smart, so educated, so superhuman then how come you are not an influential figure in the world? For all I know you are just bitter cowards who hide behind computers, spur us racial hatred against black people and pretend you are a good person when you have left the house. ANC is here to stay, supporters of ANC were labelled as idiots since 1912 but they liberated this country. They were labelled stupid but they forged democratic institutions in this country. But hey what do I know, I'm just a stupid ANC voter who has his stupid masters degree in Mechanical Engineering from UCT. Boers & haters do your job, call me stupid

      Stryder - 2011-06-01 09:49

      So what you are saying is that everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how stupid it is.

      Stryder - 2011-06-01 09:54

      Seriously though, I would love to hear why you vote ANC then, especially when faced with facts that ANC is corrupt, the president is a philanderer, that criminals within the ANC are simply redeployed, that Julias Malema is guilty of hate speech and just plain insulting low level politics, that the ANC wishes to follow policies that have been proven to fail time and time again, that the standard of living has diminished since they came into power, that average life expectancy has diminished since they came into power, that jobs have been lost since they came into power, that the gap between rich and poor has increased since they came into power. By the sounds of it you are way more intelligent than most people in the world and therefore I would like to know the reason that you vote for all of the above. Maybe your reasoning will convert me to vote for the ANC next time around.

  • phumlanimelusi - 2011-06-01 09:35

    It's easier to sit back and label voters as stupid, idiots etc but truth of the matter is if you are a responsible citizen you should respect the ballot decisions that other people make even if those decisions are opposite to yours. In short words it's called being democratic. If you are so smart, so educated, so superhuman then how come you are not an influential figure in the world? For all I know you are just bitter cowards who hide behind computers, spur us racial hatred against black people and pretend you are a good person when you have left the house. ANC is here to stay, supporters of ANC were labelled as idiots since 1912 but they liberated this country. They were labelled stupid but they forged democratic institutions in this country. But hey what do I know, I'm just a stupid ANC voter who has his stupid masters degree in Mechanical Engineering from UCT. Boers & haters do your job, call me stupid

      smahlaba - 2011-06-01 10:46

      Well said my brother. People should stop insulting black people behind their computers. Don't be cowards people; show your real profiles too.

      DJ Lovett - 2011-06-01 12:41

      "It's easier to sit back and label voters as stupid, idiots etc but truth of the matter is if you are a responsible citizen you should respect the ballot decisions that other people make even if those decisions are opposite to yours." I agree fully with this comment, your vote is your own, what I don't agree with is when people make their vote and then go and protest at lack of service delivery immediately afterwards against the very people they voted into power. It shows either a lack of understanding of what your vote means, or even worse a complete disregard for the power that vote gives you.

  • Nutsgp - 2011-06-01 09:39

    The Bottom line is, we are all suffering from the after effects of apartheid.

      Felix - 2011-06-01 09:48

      Except the instant billionares alla DuduZum & LilMandela.

      Psychotron - 2011-06-01 10:04

      Yes the current apartheid system is a problem I agree.

  • penada - 2011-06-01 09:50

    Victor - 2 hours ago Report comment We are still joking about the ANC's election speeches/preaches. If you don't vote ANC... 1. You going to kill Mandela (Malema) 2. You going to go to hell (Zuma) 3. The ancestors is going to haunt you. (Zuma) All jokes aside. If this is the government we have, I wonder about them. I fear for the future of this country. 32 this i find intriguing...why is that the media has so amazingly lapped up every single word the anc campaigners have said in the election, and you do we all take it so literally...(victor you mentioned to include that one where zuma said the ANC will rule till Jesus comes)... is it that we dont expect black people to be metaphorical, or to use other figures of it that we think the ANC electorate is so stupid as to take these utterances literally? Do we really think those utterances really conscietised the public to vote we really think malema and company really believed what they were saying literally...and why is it that Ma'am Zille's metaphorical instances were never so sensationalised?