News24

Hostility justified, Cosatu says

2012-05-15 22:49

Johannesburg - The hostility displayed by Cosatu members during a DA march in the Johannesburg city centre on Tuesday was justified, the trade union federation said.

"DA policies... will create no new jobs... and [will] lead to the impoverishment and enslavement of workers and [an] economic meltdown for South Africa," spokesperson Patrick Craven said in a statement.

"That is why workers are so hostile towards [DA leader] Helen Zille's party and want to express their justified anger, most especially when there are confronted on the street outside their federation's head office," he said.

Earlier on Tuesday, police used teargas and water cannons to disperse Congress of SA Trade Union members who stopped the Democratic Alliance from protesting outside its headquarters.

The DA wanted Cosatu to stop stonewalling a government youth wage subsidy which it believes will create thousands of new jobs for young people.

The DA march, headed by Zille, youth leader Makashule Gana, parliamentary leader Lindiwe Mazibuko and national spokesperson Mmusi Maimane, began peacefully.

The police kept the groups of DA and Cosatu members apart for an hour while they traded insults.

When rocks and pieces of cement were thrown into the crowd during Zille's speech and a DA member on the VIP truck was seriously injured, the DA retreated.

Craven congratulated Cosatu members for causing the DA to make an "ignominious retreat".

"Regrettably, there was some confusion amongst the demonstrators as to precisely where the DA's memorandum would be handed over," he said.

"This led to a confrontation... during which there were a few incidents of stone-throwing by individuals, which led to a number of injuries by people on both sides of the confrontation. We wish them all a full recovery."

He said Cosatu condemned the violence, but said most of its members had "conducted themselves "with exemplary discipline and restraint". "We recognise the DA's right to demonstrate, but insist that Cosatu members have an equal right to counter-demonstrate."

In a counter-memorandum, Cosatu said the majority of South African workers were opposed to all DA policies, as they reflected the interests of its "backers in big business".

"The basis for these differences are rooted in the fact that while Cosatu represents the working class and the poor, the DA speaks for big business, the wealthy and the privileged," it said in its memorandum.

"That is why we can see no benefit in discussing these matters with them [the DA]."

Zille, who addressed marchers in Xhosa and in English, said the DA was marching in solidarity with unemployed South Africans.

"We all want to live lives that contribute to society. We all want to support ourselves and our families. We all want to ensure that our children have more opportunities than we did," she said.

A few blocks away at Cosatu House, Cosatu general secretary Zwelinzima Vavi told a crowd that a youth wage subsidy would use workers' tax money to enrich company bosses and had to be opposed.

"What will happen is when workers get old? Bosses will throw them into the street and replace them with 18-year-olds receiving a subsidy," Vavi said.

Comments
  • michael.a.devilliers - 2012-05-15 22:56

    Sadly, I actually expected less savage and criminal behavior from COSATU. However I was wrong. Do we really live in a democracy with rights? Or does that only apply if you follow the ruling party?

      Fred - 2012-05-15 23:17

      Isn't amazing how stupid the leadership of Cosatu is? Here they had the perfect opportunity to show South Africa and the World that they can control their members, and here they go acting like a bunch of morons. Round one to the DA who certainly showed them up. Again Cosatu aggressively showed South Africa and the world that democracy in South Africa is a pipe-dream. That old cliche comes to mind .... "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." Cosatu is entitled to march, but no-one else who opposes them is allowed to. Some democracy !!!! Another thing they did was to show the unemployed youth of South Africa that Cosatu does not feel anything for them and will not support initiatives to help them get jobs and technical skills, while the DA do. Round 2 to the DA I would say, on the face of it, the DA wins by a knock-out !!!!

      lownabester - 2012-05-15 23:26

      Cosatu are so jealous, will do anything to take the limelight away from the DA, So glad I live in the Cape. One guy was running around with a taser gun, Incredible or Un-bloody-believable.

      Dave - 2012-05-16 04:27

      Yes Michael that's exactly how it is. Also in their opinion they have the right to "counter protest" if they don't agree!!! That amounts to civil war, period. The whole reason we have laws and must apply for permission to demonstrate is avert this kind of lawlessness and allow people the opportunity to voice their complaints without fear. But no COSATU and the ANC thinks it's alright for them to behave like this and stamp all over our constitution and the rights of citizens. If they felt so strongly about it, then yes they can at a later date apply for permission to protest and voice their disapproval. But no they choose rather to act like a bunch of animals with no tolerance or discipline…..times like these I am ashamed to be South African.

      Vince.York - 2012-05-16 04:30

      UTTER RUBBISH that any hostility is justified in a democratic dispensation and the POLICE must be seen to publicly act against the union members and the union itself WITHOUT EVEN NEEDING PROMPTING from anyone else. What is it with this union? - just because the ANC has resorted to becoming a gang of communist 'wont work' thieves, surely cannot mean that what was once an organisation to protect workers rights must now equally become a gang of criminal thieves and bullies. COSATU = FAILURE

      Warren - 2012-05-16 06:01

      Spill a drink on the prez and you get hauled off to court, but it's OK to throw a brick at someone because they have different views...amazing. One really has to be civilised before democracy can work.

      Eduard - 2012-05-16 06:35

      well, COSATTU displayed their true colours.....

      Benn - 2012-05-16 06:40

      Slowly but surely, SA is awakening to the fact that we do NOT have a democracy.This is Africa for goodness sake, and then we have an English communist import in Craven, in true Arthur Scargill fashion,who tries to justify this action.

      Jack - 2012-05-16 07:05

      Goodness people - BOTH sides threw stones and rocks! BOTH SIDES!!! I repeat BOTH SIDES!!! The DA is equally guilty here. If the DA were so civilized, they wouldn't be marching - they'd be releasing a media statement. Marching is for animals!!! If you're going to act like one too - don't be surprised when you get violence! Marches typically lead to violence in SA. That's the nature of the beast and you wanted it!!!

      spartanx93 - 2012-05-16 07:11

      Trust cosatu to find some way to justify their animal behavior. Imagine how they would be complaining if DA supporters came and disrupted one of their refugee marches!

      Smell - 2012-05-16 07:11

      No Mr. Craven, there are more than one version of the truth, and it is not on your side this time. This was not a violent rightwing extremist march. The DA is the multiracial offspring of the Progressive Federal Party that bitterly opposed Apartheid and the Nats for decades. If anything the DA is the party in RSA that represents moderation, and the ANC and COSATU are absolutely wrong to associate the DA with the sins and baggage of the Nats. The COSATU members behaved like uncivilized hooligans that would have done Mugabe's ZANU-PF militia proud - the thugs that beat up innocent civilians prior to elections to ensure they vote for Mugabe. Shameful.

      Christo - 2012-05-16 07:36

      The sad thing is DA members also threw stones... They should have controlled their anger. But, I'm sure if I got hit by a stone, I would through it back =/ Quite sad to see the union fighting against job creation.

      Brigitte - 2012-05-16 07:46

      Where is the spokesperson with the cojones to point out that unemployment will never get better while the population rate is increasing so fast. No more than 2 kids or you lose your child grant - too many people having kids just to get the grant - those kids have no future! Shame on the 'loving parents' of south Africa.

      Alan - 2012-05-16 07:48

      Well - my take is that Cosatu were 100% in the wrong, and their members were undisciplined, and their leadership were absent. Cosatu may have a different belief to the DA, but the DA have the right to protest. I think Cosatu did themselves and their image immense harm yesterday, especially after they had gained a little credibility with the toll roads stance. Fact is - if you dont allow people to express differing points of view, you are not a DEMOCRACY. So, once again, behind all the smoke and mirros - COSATU showed itself as being no different in essence to the anc and sacp. I am therefore glad that Cosatu has shown it's true colours and lost a lot of credibility.

      Alf - 2012-05-16 07:50

      That is how the ANC and its allies perceive democracy "We tell you what your opinion has to be and if you doun't accept it we will use any means, legal or illegal, to make you see things our way"! COSATU and the Unions claim to fight for the interests of the poor, workers, unemployed. There is something wrong with that picture: 1) How will the unemployed find work if they do not have any training? The unions are not providing it. 2) Labour Brokers are at the moment the only sector providing jobs. By shutting them down, COSATU will have more people in the streets without work. 3) The so-called leaders of COSATU and the Unions don't have an idea of what it means to do a honest day's work. When they talk about jobs, they mean jobs that pay well, but do not involve any work. The whole situation is a recipe for abject poverty and disaster, ably supported by an incompetent, corrupt government.

      Peter - 2012-05-16 07:52

      @jackblack so whats your point exactly? That because they are the DA they arent allowed to march like the rest of the country? Marching is for animals? So protesting throughout history is a sign that half the population of the world are animals? Marching isnt a south african thing you idiot. And actually theyve released plenty media statements dont know if you noticed but that never solves anything. If you have something stupid to say rather not say it

      Burtfred - 2012-05-16 08:02

      Uncle Patrick, You are talking a load of socialist hot air - you sound like Napoleon in Animal Farm. The "workers" in the Western Cape are not hostile to the DA's policies - they voted the party into power in that province. If Cosatu's policies are are so popular, why don't you stand on your own in an election? You would go the same way as COPE.

      Martin - 2012-05-16 08:06

      @ Chris.So you one of the people that does not vote?and just given up?DA has the balls.Atleast they trying.

      GrootWitHaai - 2012-05-16 08:10

      You know you're in Third World Africa when a political party spokesperson openly gaffes by condoning violence...

      colin.dovey - 2012-05-16 08:25

      The COSATU guy using a Taser Stun Gun against the DA Marchers was identified this morning by a caller to Radio 702 as being a "Volunteer policeman" from Yeoville Police station..........action needs to be taken.....they say criminal charges need to be pressed..

      Hugh - 2012-05-16 08:35

      Right off. Government should allow the experiental training of youth free of toll. I am willing to train as many as I can if government allowed the return of the vocational testing and they gave their labour freely. The former is because too many see work as a job and not a calling. Aprentices and trainees are not profit making people. For the most part they loose money. It is even worse when they do not see their chosen trade as a calling and lack natural ability. Lack of natural ability is not one one the allowable reasons for dismissing people. The real problem is that Cosatu and others have not real skill except rabble rousers and therefore think anyone can do any job and do it well. Sadly if that were true this countries government would be tops.

      Fly - 2012-05-16 08:38

      Welldone to the DA and all thier supporters. U asked that the Youth Wage Subsidy be implemented throughout South Africa but were opposed. Now take it back to the Western Cape and implement it there. With the amount of people flocking to the Western Cape u will be creating well needed employment for the unemployed youth, oh and a better Education!!!

      Marion - 2012-05-16 09:09

      @Brigette - the population growth rate is on the decline. More dying than being born.

      Jack - 2012-05-16 12:00

      @Ian - thank you! At least someone has a brain!

      Bob - 2012-05-16 12:21

      Michael, surely you are kidding me, this is exactly what I would expect from Cosatu, bunch of uneducated thugs, hostility justified ? pathetic.

      Denise - 2012-05-16 12:32

      What the DA attempted was they decided to march to the viper’s den (Cosatu House) and protest…not about the Troika gang’s extortion, but because they are not delivering the protection they promised. The DA thought that with this gang they could play it by the rules and play nicely. After all the Rule Book (SA Constitution) states in section 17… 17. Everyone has the right, peacefully and unarmed, to assemble, to demonstrate, to picket and to present petitions. And that is what the DA did. They got permission for their march and arrived unarmed and demonstrated peacefully on their march to the Cosatu offices. Cosatu, did not have permission and did not play by the rules. They arrived armed with stones and bottles to intimidate and scare the DA. Not just illegal, but totally unconstitutional of course. Understandably, the DA got their a*ses kicked… or did they? The DA are amateurs when it comes to mass action and protests. Cosatu are the experts and have organized hundreds of thousands of people before and brought cities like JHB and PTA to a standstill. In the first round the DA backed off… it is going to be interesting to see who backs off in the next round. Personally I love the arrogance of the Troika. Maybe they should study how mass action can be your downfall. Ask the French who outnumbered the British at Agincourt. Ask the Zulus who outnumbered the Voortrekkers at Blood River...

      Daniel - 2012-05-16 13:37

      I disagree Jack, I was extremely sceptical on the prospects of a DA march but I it has turned out to be a savy move. If the DA hold themselves too high and mighty to march when issues which are of such importance to our society as unemployment need to be adressed, then they won't ever have stood for anything.

      Edward - 2012-05-16 14:39

      "The basis for these differences are rooted in the fact that while Cosatu represents the working class and the poor, the DA speaks for big business, the wealthy and the privileged," it said in its memorandum. "That is why we can see no benefit in discussing these matters with them [the DA]." While I don't believe that the DA only represents big business, the wealthy, and the privileged it should be remembered that business and those who invest in business (that would be wealthy people) create jobs. Cosatu, like other large unions often forget this. Someone is always feeding them the lie about socialism and communism being for the worker. Cosatu show me one country where communism or socialism has benefited the worker in the long term. Yes it's true when there is a "take-over" there is a short term benefit to the worker as all of the wealth of the businesses are doled out, but once they have run the companies into the ground that dries up. Often the only benefit is that the wealthy aren't there any more. Then who starts the new businesses? Who then invests in a country where there has been a take over of business by labor? The answer to that one would be no one. It's interesting to note that until China went to a state controlled capitalist system their economy was stagnant and the middle class almost non-existent. So many countries have tried this experiment, but in 20,30, or even 40 years they are always the same, at the bottom of the economic pyramid.

      Smell - 2012-05-16 19:02

      Jackblack, it is ironic that you raise the issue of "lack of brains" when you evidently cannot differentiate between the DA and the AWB, and the people who support those groups. I also wonder what Martin Luther King would have thought of your ridiculous claim that "marching is for animals". Or people that have historically taken part in Women's Rights, Gay Rights, Worker's Rights and Political Rights marches. Perhaps they should have heeded your sage advice to just make a "media statement"? In South Africa, because of our contorted history, people keep on voting for the ANC not because of good governance, but just because they wish to make a statement. And in the process, citizens are still denied safety and security, even at home, and prospects for employment and decent education remain bleak. This is basic failure of governance. And minorities apparently also have not gained the right to demonstrate without being brutalized. I thought 1994 brought us freedom too.

      Christopher - 2012-05-17 12:39

      It funny when the tables turn, how people on the other side of the coin react. Next time Cosatu has a strike would they like it if a private organisation throws stones at them?

      louis.langenhoven - 2012-05-17 14:53

      hostility my @ss it was plain old aggression/ violence and bias and it can never be condoned

  • Daryl - 2012-05-15 22:57

    Are we living in the stone age? it is "justified" to throw or stone someone? Everytime when either party tries to engage in some resolution to a problem it must always resort to violence. Why not have a simple forum and have cookies and tea and discuss the issue.

      Sharon - 2012-05-15 23:05

      @ Daryl - At least cookies don't no nearly as much damage as stones do..

      Sean - 2012-05-15 23:17

      @Tsotsi-Baby - Nothing between your ears !!

      Oneant - 2012-05-16 00:21

      this is a foretaste of what will happen if the ANC ever loses the election. this country is just another banana republic waiting to happen.... why? because the natives seems to not have realised we live in 2012.. and not 1612. you get what you proverbially pay for, and if people dont have a change of attitude towards civil liberties, this country will soon be another failed African state with blame laid squarely at either apartheid or colonialisms feet. go figure.

      Keith - 2012-05-16 06:06

      Cookies & tea? Surely you mean Johnnie Walker & Sushi.

      darryl.maze1 - 2012-05-16 08:30

      Cosatu and the ANC are still living in the stone age. For Cosatu to justify that hostility from its members was accepted just shows you there is nothing between there ears. Its just disgusting and pathetic at how they have got to act. It also shows you how brainwashed they are by there leaders. When a leader says jump they all jump and all the time they dunno what they jumping for. They only hear what there leaders tell them and cant think for themselves. Thats why education is the way it is cause they dont want there members to be brighter than the leaders.

      Steve - 2012-05-16 08:34

      As long as it's not tea and rock-buns.

      Tracy - 2012-05-16 09:04

      There is NO justification to violence!!!

      JuditVictor - 2012-05-16 09:07

      It's strange that the peoples from Africa have almost THE most rights in Western countries... AND they can't wait to get to live in the first world where the toy toying never stops. But here in Africa I'm afraid the white man's time is out. It's now almost 20 years. After second world war, Germany, Japan, America and England very quickly got back on their feet and became super bodies. Here the breakdown is escalating. Why do the state have to stand in for people who never stop having babies when they're excruciatingly poor. What motivation makes them do that? I would worry myself to death if I were pregnant with no hope of ever sending that poor little kid to University or to be able to feed him the best? What is this strange phenomenon? I guess I'll be moderated out again as usual.

      Jack - 2012-05-16 11:07

      because the DA is trying to gain some street-cred. They're like a snot-nosed teenager picking a fight with another kid - just hoping that it causes a crowd to gather and thus the snot-nosed brat believes himself to have gained respect. Oh how I wish SA had a decent political system...

  • francois.smith.7 - 2012-05-15 22:58

    Patrick, does this give the bosses the right to counter demonstrate when Cosatu Unions ask for higher wages? Also the poor in SA are those without jobs, just how do you represent those?

      lownabester - 2012-05-15 23:27

      Good one Francois, Never thought of it like you put it.

      Press - 2012-05-16 01:52

      "The basis for these differences are rooted in the fact that Cosatu represents the working class and the poor . . " Come again - Cosatu representing the poor - really - like a wise man once said - its more like "COSATU are primarily responsible for the poor and the lack of new job opportunities for them".

      Althea - 2012-05-16 08:15

      Excellent Point you mentioning Francois

      mariuskowie - 2012-05-16 08:22

      Chinese protesters- We have a right to protest. Chinese military. We have a right to counter protest. (remember Tiananmen square) See the parallels between what happened there and the actions of Cosatu?

      Steve - 2012-05-16 08:37

      Cosatu only claim to represent those who can pay their membership dues. What a bunch of wayward commie wallies.

      Vicker - 2012-05-16 08:50

      My plans are in place already to systematically downsize, and ultimately gt rid of all 23 of my employees. This also means that another 30-odd contract wekkers will no longer have an income. So there you have it, over the run of the following 2 years another 50+ wekkers unemployed. Ironic thing is I will then be making more money, with far less stress and frustration. Gives me a real warm and fuzzy feeling when I think about it....

      Denise - 2012-05-16 12:37

      To me there are bigger forces at play in SA at the moment. We have seen SA moving into the start of the endgame of an international political chess game. To me it is all about posturing at the moment. The thought of a possible “Arab Spring” scenario in SA is being presented to the Ruling Troika. Unless they toe the line they will be unseated just like Ghadaffi.

      Denise - 2012-05-16 13:14

      Are we approaching our "Tunisia moment" (a youth-led uprising) that Moeletsi Mbeki predicted .... currently around about 2,5 million well paid union members are holding the rest of the country to ransom. If we freed up labour practice and especially for the youth, we would be able to employ so many more people. Over time a good education system will move more people from the working class into the middle class.

      Jan - 2012-05-16 18:21

      triparteid alliance = reign through terror. period

      abrie.burger - 2012-05-17 15:17

      Cosatu represents the poor and unemployed. If there are no more poor and unemployed they will be obsolete... No wonder they want to keep as many people as possible in that state.

  • Edwin - 2012-05-15 22:58

    If all parties start working together to actually help the poor and oppressed, instead of promoting their own interests, South-Africa would be a completely different place.

      ideal.selepe - 2012-05-16 00:52

      U r 100 percent spot on

      Keith - 2012-05-16 06:11

      Yes, but the ANC communists wouldn't fit in this different place where most people would have jobs if they wanted them.

      Philip - 2012-05-16 07:22

      @ Edwin, 100% correct, however, through the last generation the older ANC members have forced their "kill the boer" and "Its all appartheids fault" ideas on the youth and they now feel entitled to just get the jobs they want without being in any way quilified for them, the lazyness i experience with these muppets on a daily basis amazes me. their sense of entitlement to go to varsity when they dont have the grades, remember what happened when they couldnt get in? same as what happened at the DA march. it seems that in South Africa, if you want something you take it, if someone stops you from taking it you resort to violence and start destroying and burning property. I have a 6 month old baby girl and a wife that is Austrailian, and i can say without a doubt that withing the next 3 years, i will no longer be in this country i love, because of idiots like ANC and Cosatu.

      Brad.Kopping - 2012-05-16 07:41

      THe problem is that the ANC dont care bot helping the poor or opressed...they only care about greed, power and influence. quite pathetic actually, quite.

  • Sharon - 2012-05-15 22:58

    Hostility is NEVER justified!! Where has it ever solved any problem. All it did was show up Cosatu for what they are and what they stand for. It seems that the ANC (Tripartites) don't need unemployed youth votes either. Seems they think they can run the country without any support!

      caz.wardfaulha - 2012-05-15 23:25

      Tsotsi-Baby, usually when one is attacked you would report the crime, unfortunately this was not the case, the DA applied for a permit and Cosatu didnt plain and simple.... Yes power to the people those who truely have the interest of the rainbow nation in the right place, this demonstration was not about colour it was about empowering the youth to be able to gain work experience, cos unfortunately you cant get a job in SA unless you have experience, irrelevant of race colour or creed.... And at least Helen Zille and the DA are trying to come up with solutions and not sitting in a cosy office (which doesnt benefit the youth of SA), I am sick and tired of reading the race card.... Oh and before you shoot of your venom, I have been attacked, and held up at gun point, I dont hate the people, I feel pity cos the group that attacked me had wealthy parents and all owned businesses of their own.... I paid for what i owned and sure as hell didnt take anything away from anyone.... By that single act caused 20 people to lose their jobs, I chose to want a life with my children, and went to work for a big company...So when investors lose interest in South Africa it wont be because of the white monopolies its because of incidents like today,how many of those people out there today just want the right to live, how many of them want a safe place for their children to grow up in, well guess Vavi showed how safe it is hey.....we all have a common goal in the end and that is to LIVE!!!!!!

      Keith - 2012-05-16 06:17

      This may have been an altruistic move by the DA, but I think it was more of a political, point scoring demonstration. However, the point was and is worth scoring, unemployment amongst the youth is going to lead to much bigger problems when that youth becomes adult.

  • Neil De Witt - 2012-05-15 22:59

    I am appalled at Cosatu and Numsa's lack of discipline

      Arvin - 2012-05-16 00:08

      Hi Neil, You shudnt be my friend. It is expected from Morons.

      Koos - 2012-05-16 00:20

      Are you really surprised?

      Ian - 2012-05-16 08:09

      Msika, How does coming to your doorstep provoke you, exactly? If I stand there and want to give you a letter, wouldn't you just come out and accept it? Or is it bred into you to attack me just because I dare to come to see you? Cosatu warned the DA. The LAW and police gave permission. Who do you think should be obeyed? It is idiots like you who make some wish for Apartheid again.

  • Eduard - 2012-05-15 23:01

    People should not worry about the "workers", worry about the people without jobs. Cosatu has taken food of SO many people's table (by lobbying for laws that kills jobs). Government should make it easier to hire and fire. Just look at America (despite the credit crunch / sub prime crisis) as a whole ... that is how employment is created.

  • EricksonTL - 2012-05-15 23:03

    Does anyone else get reminded of a petulant child, throwing their toys, when they look at Cosatu an company? Shame on you. Violence is the preserve of the intellectually stunted, and you've clearly shown the world where you stand in that regard. These violent idiots make me sick.

      Keith - 2012-05-16 06:21

      You really have some, no many bright thoughts; why aren't you in politics? You would have one supporter in me, at least.

      EricksonTL - 2012-05-16 11:20

      Politics is a dirty game, and I have a short fuse. It's entirely likely that I might klap someone who was being moronic... not good!

  • Paul R. Gonsalves - 2012-05-15 23:03

    That's so disappointing Mr Craven.

      Press - 2012-05-16 01:44

      The unemployed youth in this country will one day realise it is the employed elites that make up COSATU that didnt gave a damnn to anyone other than enriching temselves at the cost of entrepeneurs who create jobs and the unemployed in desperate need of new employment opportunities. Is should by now, given our horrendus unemployed statistic, be obvious to everyone that COSATU's claims are going way beyond the rights of workers to organise themselves. COSATU is throttling the living daylights out of our economy and its future prospects - no - it is simply detroying it.

  • Blip - 2012-05-15 23:04

    DA accomplished their mission 100%. Bravo! It's another resounding success to the Blue Team.

  • yummyhamster - 2012-05-15 23:05

    and the animals get congratulated for acting like rabid dogs. if it can create much needed jobs then why appose it? they appose it because they didnt think about it and dont want anyone else to create jobs because if they then they will lose their leverage over their blind and dumb followers. this country is becoming a bigger joke by the day...

      Erna - 2012-05-15 23:16

      Most of Cosatu and ANC members don't even understand what they are protesting about!

      Kent - 2012-05-16 07:49

      This is a goverment initiative and they are the ones proposing a 5 billion rand subsidy not the DA. The DA also thinks it is a good plan and only Cosatu thinks it is wrong.

      sven.gohre - 2012-05-16 13:36

      @Kent, it was the DA who proposed the Youth Wage Subsidy and the CancER agreed and set aside R5 Billion for its implementation, it is just COSATU who is against it and therefore keeping a quater of a million young people out of work.

  • dave.j.colquhoun - 2012-05-15 23:09

    This is typical behaviour of the uneducated masses responding to a situation with which they disagree. Throw stones and insult anyone who disagrees with you. One just has to look back at the recent murders that took place during past strikes to see that COSATU actually does condone violence by its members to get their way. I'm sure that if COSATU were demanding to deliver a memorandum to the DA they would not be met with an organised bunch of hooligans with rocks and shamboks. Typical "WEKER" mentality at work here. I also see that the ANC hasn't bothered to issue a coment as yet which goes to show that they also condone the actions of the COSATU hooligans. Irrespective of who started the violence here, the fact remains that COSATU set out to organise a "counter march" to disrupt a peaceful march and the end result was inevitable.

      sven.gohre - 2012-05-16 13:39

      @dave, COSATU delivered a memorandum to the DA's KZN office and it was accepted, there was no violence from the DA members, they acted in a civilised manner, something COSATU cannot.

  • Crracker - 2012-05-15 23:11

    Cosatu, Now go out and create the jobs. Nobody is going to create jobs because you say so.

      Keith - 2012-05-16 06:26

      Since when was Cosatu's mission to create jobs. Its sole aim is to get more and more money for less and less work for its supporters - and to hell with the cost to the country. Cosatu represents "workers" not the unemployed, who pay no subs.

  • Erna - 2012-05-15 23:12

    The DA exposed Cosatu to be a bunch of uncivilised hooligans! Imagine how good everyone would've felt if they had accepted the memorandum with some attempt at dignity and grace. To hear Patrick Craven making innumerable excuses on 702 is nothing short of scandalous.

  • Chris - 2012-05-15 23:13

    So Cravan congratulates them for disregarding the rule of law! And to Think I assumed he was intelligent!

      Koos - 2012-05-16 00:22

      Mandla, please try and talk/type properly. We don't understand the cosatu lingo.

      Daniel - 2012-05-16 01:59

      koos - he's texting, if you don't understand it do a word search (and seeing as it isn't particularly challenging text I'm guessing that if you don't understand it, you won't be able to make much contribution to the discussion)

      Koos - 2012-05-16 02:20

      I use my phone and prefer to type clearly to make my comment readable to everyone. That way there can not be any confusion. WTF = Welcome to facebook.

      Keith - 2012-05-16 06:30

      Replying to Mandla; the "rules of law", one that allows the ANC and its allies total licence and the other that we hoi polloi used to have.

      Peter - 2012-05-16 07:55

      @Daniel - this is not a mxit chat if he wants to communicate and voice his opinions he can do so like a normal person

      Sharon - 2012-05-16 08:11

      @ mandla - cosatu mentality

      Truthis - 2012-05-16 08:13

      @mandla - the law that says that a legal peaceful protest should not be interfered with by an illegal gathering of savages. Who you clearly worship so what does that make you? I love those pictures you see of chimpanzees in suits. They make me laugh.

      darryl.maze1 - 2012-05-16 08:39

      @Mandla and koos. U are both brainwashed idiots. The DA had permission for a peaceful march. But then came the wild savage cosatu members who might i add had no right to be there, so cosatu should be had up for the ilegal gathering. I dunno why with u cosatu members and ANC member why u gotta go out and F*@! up everything. No bloody mentality. I wont achieve anything.

      Michael - 2012-05-16 08:48

      @mandla - press the "post comment" once! That is the way of an intelligent person, not that of a savage who spews forth utter rot.

      Daniel - 2012-05-16 11:00

      @koos granted he's flouted the forum's rules by doing so, but now look at the comments board without him... it makes us look like a bunch of back slapping ra ra clowns who are only interested in preaching to the converted. At least he was sincerely attempting to engage and it made him look like a lone desperate voice trying to find reason in his madness (I much prefer it that way don't you?). I think given the way COSATU has reacted to this strike, all that's needed to sink them is to give them the platform to air their skewed unconsidered views.

  • WhiteNut - 2012-05-15 23:13

    Irresponsible leadership

  • Crracker - 2012-05-15 23:15

    As for the DA, if you had planned your evidence gathering properly (video recordings the accuracy confirmed) you may just be in a position to sue the hell out or Cosatu and their bosses.

      michael.a.devilliers - 2012-05-15 23:22

      Don't count on it - DA wouldn't win a cent. Just remember who runs the justice system.

      Alex - 2012-05-16 00:03

      Who does run the justice system? AS far as I can tell it's pretty independent. Or else why is the DA accused by the ANC of trying to achieve in the courts what they failed to achieve at the ballot box?

      Keith - 2012-05-16 06:33

      Alex, it's not the 'system' but the people in high places who manipulate it.

  • Antonio - 2012-05-15 23:17

    Patrick Craven, I am deeply disillusioned. You have always come across as a principled and ethical individual. Another illusion shattered in a country losing itself to cheap and ugly political expediency

      John - 2012-05-16 05:15

      Antonio, look who's paying his wages he has to be a yes man to that moron vavi. If he gets fired who in his right mind would employ him?

  • Svetlana - 2012-05-15 23:17

    How can we expect our kids to have good morals and values when adults are displaying such barbaric behaviours?

      EricksonTL - 2012-05-16 01:01

      Holy crap. That, I think, is possibly THE worst spelling and grammar I've seen in a long time. Are you sure you're actually alive - because if you're dumb enough to write like that, they might not be able to tell, just by monitoring brain activity!

      John - 2012-05-16 05:43

      @Mandla. Jagiellonian University must be really proud of you and your achievements in the English language.

      dewaldmontgomery - 2012-05-16 05:59

      This is what happens to schools if the ANC appoints teachers who have grade 3.

      Michael - 2012-05-16 08:45

      @mandla.shikwambana - I would expect you to behave exactly the way your fellow gangsters/savages behaved yesterday - because that is the way you interpret the freedom of choice.

      curbylee1 - 2012-05-16 08:52

      @ Mandla.....Only the educated do not throw stones, try to kill, try to intimidate....They use their brain to correct the uneducated...You make me think that education is an abomination... ! !What as sad state of thinking...

      Polotic - 2012-05-16 08:52

      @Mandla - Get an education.

  • Waldo Moulder - 2012-05-15 23:17

    Craven you are an absolutely excuse for a human being! In what civilised world would a person in professional standing, supposedly educated, such as yourself condone behaviour where people throw stones and cement at people who are exercising their democratic right to protest?! A remark like that in civilised politics would have you handing in your resignation! I know you will never see this post but I sincerely hope you get what you deserve for justifying violence amongst fellow countryman! You are a disgrace to South Africa and people like you are the reason that South Africa is losing the fight for a better future!

      Keith - 2012-05-16 06:40

      But remember, Mr Craven says that BOTH sides threw stones, and where you throw mud, some sticks. I should have thought that Cosatu's illegal mob should have been censured by Cosatu, but then I must be stupid to expect anything but their normal response - "It's the DA's fault".

  • DIESELDBN - 2012-05-15 23:18

    DA marched very peacefully. Does Costau or Anc marched peacfully? NO they don't. Look around u, there is far too many unemployed youths and it can lead to higher CRIME and HOMELESS! Wake up and smell lovely Roses! Can u leave a Roses alone without water? No, it gonna die, same as unemployed people! I often go to Johannesburg City, how many people walked around and talking and joking each other? Its staggering shocked me! They supposed to WORK! Shame on u Costau and ANC!

  • cmkhize - 2012-05-15 23:22

    In WHAT world is hostility against people exercising their constitutional right justified Mr Craven? #justasking. Clearly I missed something.

      Nigel - 2012-05-16 07:41

      Thank you cmkhize, it seems that this has yet again been turned into blacks vs whites thing, rather than a debate about job creation, when south africa can debate issues without playing the race card & throwing rocks, like the EC schooling collapse or this issue, then we will make progress, as long as every issue is reduced to the color of ones skin, were are going backwards

  • Keegsvb - 2012-05-15 23:26

    There is absolutely nothing that can justify that "animal like" behaviour from COSATU.

      Msika - 2012-05-16 08:07

      Dont be fooled by what you see on the media Keegsvb, DA provoked COSATU and COSATU retaliated to the provocation. Unfortunately are our media houses are so biased this days and misleading the nation. Please asnwer me on this: Why is the media only showing injured DA supporters whereas there were surely injuries from both sides?

      Kirsten - 2012-05-16 10:50

      "surely" insinuates assumption; Msika you are WORSE than the media

      Jacqui - 2012-05-16 12:35

      Msika, well the media can fool some people some of the time, you are fooled all the time. Your Cosatu brothers and sisters brought the law of the jungle to the city streets and that's that. I wonder why they weren't at work.

  • gideon.rossouw - 2012-05-15 23:29

    Justified violence and hostility? - I am sorry that is just a lot of fascist nonsense!!

  • charmaine.mcdonald2 - 2012-05-15 23:32

    Politics and God, should they mix? Some very good comments here.

      Keith - 2012-05-16 06:44

      I don't think God wants to be involved here.

  • Crracker - 2012-05-15 23:32

    It is plain lip service to freedoms and expression of opinion and the right to march from Cosatu. The true nature of that organization is being revealed. They are the biggest capitalists around. They are two faced.

  • Paul - 2012-05-15 23:32

    Cosatu must be mad they can march destroy property and it is fine but as soon as somebody else does it it is wrong! Crazy bunch sitting in Cosatu House

  • Carrie - 2012-05-15 23:33

    Unbelievable. When one justifies extreme and brutal violence because someone has a different view. People wonder why we have a nation filled with violent crime and utter disregard for your fellow human, but there is no need to wonder when the very people who we are meant to look to for hope are setting an example of acceptance of savagery. I am ashamed to call myself a South African. The complete lack of common sense and rational thinking among the masses leaves me utterly speechless. This is what we have to look forward to as South Africans. We are more than likely the laughing stock of the world. From the e-tolling saga, to the corruption in government, bickering and utterly childish behavior within the ruling party, the never-ending fueling of racism among the people of South Africa, the horrific crime rate and the abuse of woman and children, young men being murdered trying to save their girlfriends from attackers, children raping children, the murder and mutilation of farmers and South Africans in their homes, failing education, this is a sad state of affairs for every single person living in our borders. I don’t know much about the ins and outs of politics and I don’t claim to either. All I have to rely on is my ability to use rational thought and common sense, my ability to tell the difference between right and wrong and the application of logic to a situation so it has the best possible outcome. Something needs to happen fast or I fear we will all sink into decay.

      Keith - 2012-05-16 06:46

      Arvin "Brute force and bloody ignorance" (Count Zborowski)

      Keith - 2012-05-16 06:49

      Morticia they would find differences in the size of the dots! But in this case, it does boil down to 'Us' and 'Them'.

      Keith - 2012-05-16 10:30

      Sorry, Arvin & Morticia have both disappeared.

      Jacqui - 2012-05-16 12:37

      Carrie, I am afraid that for the rest of the world South Africa is just another failed African nation.

  • dougmayger - 2012-05-15 23:33

    COSATU seem to believe that they are the only organisation ALLOWED TO MARCH/PROTEST. Mr Craven you are full of S--T. No wonder this country can't attract overseas investment.... the govt is bad enough, throw in COSATU and any level-headed investor will run a mile in under 4 minutes. Even the Indian,s are having 4th thoughts, which will leave South Africa with only Chinese investors - then where will COSATU be??

  • Nkosinathi - 2012-05-15 23:43

    There is an intellectual genocide within the federation. What does COSATU real want?? It is an alliance partner but it behave like Julius Malema within that alliance. DA has a right to march and voice their concern comrades! DA has now turned its energy and it is dealing with the painfully tooth and if COSATU or those who are easily entertained by COSATU empty slogans or hate towards Helen then they must continue dreaming. DA was spraying a snake on the eyes with doom today

      keith.ngobeni - 2012-05-16 00:33

      Well said nkosinathi, I have been following your comments lately, all of them they're very mature and make sense and really sounds like someone who is highly educated keep it up, these so called parties of people ANC,COSATU,SACP and NUMSA are all the same these organisations are blinding their followers with a slogan of fighting for them the (poor people) hence they're the ones who are stealing for the poor people by their corruption ways, COSATU and it's followers should be ashamed of themselves they have lost the plot and run out of ideas that's why their only voices is thuggery and violence against unarmed DA people you (COSATU and ANC) your time is nigh you will be history soon.

      Sannie - 2012-05-16 00:35

      Cosatu have the right to defend its building and has a right to refuse to receive the memorandum.

      Daniel - 2012-05-16 00:58

      Keith I couldn't agree more about the so-called parties. I wouldn't say that the DA is above all that, but until they can be regarded as a threat (as they have become since winning cape town and because of their significant success with cape town), the lot that are in the lead won't have anyone breathing down their neck to make sure they run harder! and this lot looks like they've been lying down for the last 15 years

      Daniel - 2012-05-16 01:03

      Ah Sannie, so the DA supporters arrived with what? tanks? battering rams? grappling hooks? siege ladders? cannons? catapaults? maybe they were planning on marching around the building for 6 days to get it to fall like the walls of Jericho. Last I checked, they rocked up with placards, a memorandum and a loud speaker now I wasn't around when they stormed the bastille but I don't think they would have done it by throwing the wall to death with a bunch of papers (pardon my grammer)

      Daniel - 2012-05-16 01:19

      Mandla - last time I checked COSATU was in the ruling tripartite alliance so why pretend they're not a political institution?

      Daniel - 2012-05-16 01:50

      Ah well said... but if this is the case, then surely what they are doing with this bill goes against their policy i.e. when the church gets involved in politics everyone justifiably cries foul and when COSATU uses political means to achieve its agenda then surely the DA has the right to cry foul and protest against it. You can't have your bread buttered both ways - COSATU can't be a political force so long as it suits them and an independent bystander when the going gets tough. Either way there is still no law giving a private institution the right to assault protesters just because they are protesting. What Patrick Craven is saying flies in the face of our constitution, either he must fall on his sword for speaking out of turn or COSATU will be asked to justify their complicity in and endorsement of the violence. (BTW I am enjoying our little conversation)

      Keith - 2012-05-16 07:00

      Mandla, it must make perfect sense to you that, if I have a successful business with trained staff, I would rather employ untrained young people and fire my trained staff. Perhaps you should try to run a business, i am sure you would be VERY successful.

      Colour.me.curious - 2012-05-16 08:08

      @Mandla. Are you honestly unable to spell or do you just enjoy annoying people? I've seen texting before. It looks nothing like what you are doing. Have some respect and communicate properly when you are debating someone's opinion. How is anyone supposed to take you seriously?

      Kenny - 2012-05-16 08:12

      @ Sannie - STOP SMOKING THAT TWAK "IT IS ILLEGAL"

      Kenny - 2012-05-16 08:15

      @ Mandla - I will not employ you! Where did you get your info from? Let me guess CUSATO? lol just as brain dead as they are.

      Jacqui - 2012-05-16 12:41

      Sannie, tell that to Cosatu members next time they march and steal the belongings of their fellow brothers and sisters trying to make a living by selling stuff from their little stalls.I suppose you could find it in your heart to agree with me that they too have a right to have their property respected.

  • Wilfred - 2012-05-15 23:45

    This is NOT what democracy is about. There must be tolerance. Cosatu has been marching for decades to bring an end to the apartheid regime and usher in democracy. Now what you do Cosatu is to p*ss in the very ideals our struggle veterans gave their life for?! Cosatu will toyi-toyi itself out of the workplace struggle in the years to come and be irrelevant. What a pity.

  • Mewik - 2012-05-15 23:45

    Yay South Africa!!! Welcome back to Africa!! We can quite safely say we are back in the 3rd World. Well done!! We don't even get affected by the recession because we are too busy with regression. Sigh sigh sigh, least we have nice weather.

  • Wilfred - 2012-05-15 23:57

    I must add that I have worked for years with some of the comrades in Cosatu and perhaps, like many ex-trade unionists, now must bow my head in shame. It has become a club with 1 mindset and if you do not subscribe to the one line of march you are seen as reactionary; so I suppose an allergy to democracy comes naturally to the Congress of South African Trade Unions.

  • ian.levinson.7 - 2012-05-16 00:01

    craven, the money loving wannabee whitey scapecoat commie, ha ha ha loser

  • Thabo - 2012-05-16 00:05

    Did the JMPD authorise both marches?

      Arvin - 2012-05-16 00:13

      No Thabo. Only DA sought permission. Cosatu gathered illegally. They should be locked up in terms of the law (what law).

  • Crracker - 2012-05-16 00:06

    They actually meant "VIOLENCE" JUSTIFIED. Their little kingdom was never under physical threat.

  • jomardl - 2012-05-16 00:14

    Politics aside, I seriously think Patrick Craven is becoming senile. His pronouncements are becoming ever more erratic and strange. Defending political violence? Well I guess his name says it all: cra·ven/'krav?n/ Adjective: Contemptibly lacking in courage; cowardly.

      Jacqui - 2012-05-16 12:43

      Omnivore, maybe he has always been senile.

  • michael.a.devilliers - 2012-05-16 00:17

    Just saw this on international news - what the world must think of our country :(

      Daniel - 2012-05-16 01:07

      Ah Sannie... but then they'll see that picture of the white guy in a DA shirt with his head gushing blood that's going to go viral and your sentiments wont even enter their heads

      Juan - 2012-05-16 02:08

      @sannie I watch the news overseas on CNN, and trust me the impression that my Western colleagues get is that it's darkest Africa with it's savages. We just made our names "gat" my friend.

      Kenny - 2012-05-16 08:25

      Sad but true! England thinks that the country is run by Criminals, Rapists, Murderers and worst of all Corruption. And it goes on and on and on...

      Malcolm - 2012-05-16 09:16

      kenny.liebenberg - Why do you say that as if what they believe is not true? Even our 'president' is a criminal and that is a fact.

  • glen.e.huysamer - 2012-05-16 00:22

    Patrick Craven should be arrested and criminally charged. Casatu has shown that they are nothing but thugs, who do not have the youth and or the workers needs at heart, they take millions each month from the workers but give nothing back, where does the money go, ZARS should investigate Casatu spending and reveal to the country how much corruption is going on. Down with Casatu, South Africa is sick of their non-policy.

  • Daniel - 2012-05-16 00:27

    Really surprised - never took Patrick Craven for the demagogue. And he isnt singing from the hymn sheet of (it wasn't our members acting undignified) instead he's coming out and saying "We were right to defend ourselves"... from what... having a memorandum handed over...? In any self-defense explanation you have to motivate that you were in direct danger of being harmed... if people protesting is considered such a danger then it should be outlawed altogether... if not then the law must be applied equally and COSATU must be penalised for escalating a situation that was not inherently violent to begin with (not to mention the lack of application for a legal counter-protest) I think he's gonna have a far harder time because of his statements to the media than he would have if he'd kept his mouth shut.

  • ideal.selepe - 2012-05-16 00:41

    Let us stop using d names of DA n COSATU wat I saw was black ppl fyting each ada bt in d names of diz 2 organisations n m so worried yl d midle men z loughing @ us dis reminded of d early 90z war between Xhosas n Zuluz

      Michael - 2012-05-16 12:42

      Get your school fees re-imbursed! Or join The New Age

  • mnbain - 2012-05-16 01:15

    Just when I was starting to like Cosatu again, this sounds like a bunch of people hurling spear and insults in a tribal battle.

  • Mlondolozi - 2012-05-16 01:28

    yes, i get it, COSATU does not agree with the DA with regards to this youth job susidy business. but there are ways and platforms to show disaproval and disagreements, not violence. am disgusted and ashamed right now.

      Kent - 2012-05-16 10:48

      @ Mlondolozi. This is not a DA plan but a goverment plan = ANC. DA just happens to think it is a good plan aswell. So, why would Cosatu be againts an ANC plan?

  • Lourens - 2012-05-16 01:38

    Yes, my black brothers. No matter how far we have come - turn to violence at the drop of a hat. And please note - it's not an African thing. Some of us are civilised.

      Tshepo - 2012-05-16 02:18

      yes sir i do agree with u 100%

  • Daniel - 2012-05-16 01:56

    Anyone seen the rand?

      Daniel - 2012-05-16 02:04

      was + - 8.10 this morning, 8.30 2 hours ago and 8.33 to the dollar now... lets keep a count going

      richard.hipkin - 2012-05-16 09:34

      That has nothing to do with what happened, it has to do with concerns about the Eurozone. Basic economics...

      Daniel - 2012-05-16 10:15

      sure PointBlank, the same day there's and unprecedented event like this march which provokes COSATU's irrational and unacceptable behaviour the rand drops roughly 3%... when what's been happening in the Eurozone has been going on for years now... what did all the Euro speculators get together to synchronise their sentiments... maybe they've got watches like the one in my childhood cartoon. Maybe that's what basic economics teaches you... then when you get to studying advanced economics (with things like CAPX, derivatives, Risk financing etc) you learn that the country's risk profile affects how much return investors expect from an investment i.e. when a country is seen as more risky, the current investors lose interest and sell off shares (or currency) at a cheaper rate because it doesn't meet their investment risk profile. The currency stabilises at a level where the higher risk profile is balanced by the cheapness of the currency i.e. There is a bigger risk but investors see more opportunity for reward. Economics 102 - when making an investment, select your required risk level and look for the best reward prospect given that risk level... look it up

      richard.hipkin - 2012-05-16 10:57

      The rand went into freefall a week ago, keep your eyes open rather then slapping yourself on the back..

      Daniel - 2012-05-16 11:22

      I'll concede that the rand was in a more gradual slide, and that it was at R8.18 to the dollar, not R8.10 as I said earlier (just checked on http://www.tititudorancea.com/z/usd_to_zar_exchange_rates_dollar_south_african_rand.htm) However, that is still a dramatic drop (2%) in one day far in excess of any one day's movement for the previous week when reaction to the concerns about the Eurozone were more immediate, also there was no significant news about the fate of the European union which struck yesterday while the story of masses of South African demonstrators hurling rocks at each other (looking very similar to Arab spring uprising scenes) was being plastered across international media. Investors are very quick to react and I don't see how the effect of such negative publicity can be overlooked when speculating on the S.A. economy.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-05-16 11:26

      Yes the market may jitter on news like this but will hardly make a dent. Here, read this: http://www.iol.co.za/business/markets/commodities/rand-follows-euro-weaker-1.1297805

      Daniel - 2012-05-16 13:45

      Fair enough, the rand has weakened against the Euro but only marginally -you're right... enjoy the pat

      richard.hipkin - 2012-05-16 14:50

      Lol... Can't reach, my head is too big ;)

  • Trevor - 2012-05-16 02:27

    Well, lets see how this goes as the leadership has now actively supported the brutal attacking of citizens in SA..this on it's own is a criminal offence as stiputaled by law and infringes on the freedom of expression so COSATU is spitting on the constitution so ANC, will you act...I bet not.

  • gghtssmop - 2012-05-16 03:44

    Clearly COSATU was out of line in this case, its argument on the opposition of the subsidy issue, does not make any sense and has no merit. It is disgraceful for Vavi to condone such actions. Vavi is a respected member of society but if he allows himself to bully other organisations, then he is not the ideal person to lead, the workers or any institution. But on the other hand, the DA approached this issue with no clarity on how they were going to go about it, on where to hand over the memorandum, or who they were addressing they issue to. Is it the government or COSATU. Cosatu is a union but has no say in government although they have influence, but they influence is at par with that of the DA. I think on it was lack of strategy on the party of Zille, and he provoked Cosatu for no reason. DA was suppose to march to government offices responsible with dealing in such issues. Lastly these 2 organisations are so opportunistic, we would not take them serious at any point in time!!

  • James - 2012-05-16 03:50

    It looks like we are heading for a new beggining.such huge turn out of DA black membership?The DA made its point through is demonstrations.There is an urgent need to address high youth unemployment in our country.Free education for poor young children whether pink , yellow or red.What i fail to understand is Cosatu's reasons for a counter-demonstration!

  • George - 2012-05-16 04:07

    Notice they DID NOT throw rocks when they demonstrated against e-tolling. Makes you think doesn't it?!

  • Daniel - 2012-05-16 04:56

    Just shows me that even if another party won the elections, the anc cosatu and all will make it unrulable! Such a pity that the war mentality is in south africa too! Thaought we might not have been like the rest of africa. Down down we go.