News24

It's not over, Zille warns on info bill

2011-11-22 22:34

Cape Town - Vociferous protests in and outside Parliament failed to stop the ANC majority driving the contentious protection of state information bill through the National Assembly on Tuesday.

The so-called "secrecy bill" was adopted with 229 to 107 votes by the 400-member chamber, drawing a flat warning from opposition leader Helen Zille that the legislation was heading for constitutional review.

"It is not over. This will undoubtedly end in the Constitutional Court," Zille said on the steps of Parliament, surrounded by journalists wearing black in symbolic mourning at the bill's feared impact on media freedom.

SA National Editor's Forum chairperson Mondli Makhanya said the press corps felt "broken inside" after watching it move closer to becoming law .

"We never thought we would come here dressed in black to witness the Constitution of our country being betrayed by those who built it."

Makhanya said the battle against the draft law criminalising publishing classified information would continue and that editors would work with unions and activists to fight it.

Zille raised the prospect that those MPs who voted against the bill could use clause 80 of the Constitution to refer the bill for review within 30 days of the president signing it into law.

"Don't forget, we got a third of the vote," she said.

Opposition heckled

The bill was debated last week, but what was meant to be a simple vote on Tuesday turned into a second, hour-long debate as opposition parties first took recourse to every rule in the book to delay the inevitable, then finally appealed to ANC MPs to ignore a three-line whip and reject the draft law.

It fell on deaf ears, with senior ministers like Trevor Manuel heckling opposition members who warned that the party was betraying South Africans and its own struggle for democracy.

The Inkatha Freedom Party said the unpopular legislation that drew hundreds of protesters to Parliament on Tuesday would lead the ANC to lose its legitimacy and challenged it to take it to the people in a referendum.

Congress of the People leader and former ANC minister Mosiuoa Lekota invoked the fate of the Rand Daily Mail and said the African National Congress would, like the apartheid state, suffer the shame of jailing journalists and whistleblowers who alerted the public to wrongdoing.

"I shudder to think that the men and women who say that money is being stolen will be locked up in the name of the African National Congress," he shouted to applause from the opposition benches and a packed public gallery.

Sustained opposition has led to several amendments to the bill in the past year and DA parliamentary leader Lindiwe Mazibuko said her party would fight for further changes in the National Council of Provinces.

If that failed, she would petition President Jacob Zuma not to sign the bill, but to send it back to Parliament.

"But if this bill is signed into law, I will lead an application to the Constitutional Court to have the act declared unconstitutional," she added.

Media houses, a coalition of 400 civil rights groups, and ANC ally the Congress of SA Trade Unions have also vowed to go to court to challenge the bill

Cosatu's main concern is the bill's lack of protection for whistle-blowers who pass on classified documents to expose corruption, but it also supports widespread calls for a public interest defence.

Such a defence would enable people prosecuted for publishing classified information to argue in mitigation that they had done so in the public interest.

State Security Minister Siyabonga Cwele reiterated last week that the ANC would not allow such "reckless practice".

Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe has suggested that the ANC may strengthen the related public interest override, but this would allow journalists only to ask courts to rule that they may publish classified documents and would not offer any defence once they landed in the dock for doing so.

The draft law introduces prison sentences of up to 25 years for publishing state secrets and up to 15 years for revealing information about the operations of the intelligence community.

The provision raises fears that the intelligence services could amass too much power and become embroiled in political power struggles.

Public Protector Thuli Madonsela wrote to the Speaker that the bill would impact on her work because she relies heavily on information from whistleblowers and the media.

In a radio interview on Tuesday, Madonsela said the media was also integral to public discourse in a democracy.

"If it's not going to be possible to have a dialogue on public life, that's going to be a problem."

National security

The Office of the ANC chief whip welcomed the bill being passed in the National Assembly, and maintained that whistleblowers will be protected.

Spokesperson Moloto Mothapo said the bill was essentially a security bill, not a media bill.

He said it was aimed at protecting the national security of the country.

"It is firmly in line with best international practice as states have constitutional obligations to protect their people and territorial integrity."

He said the bill was a consequence of the acknowledgement that there were still inconsistencies and discrepancies in the current Protection of Information Act, of 1982, which presently regulates protection of disclosure of certain information.

"A review of the current Act revealed that it is outdated, as it contains some provisions that are contrary to the Constitution and other legislation in that it contains legal presumptions which are deemed to be unconstitutional."

He said the rights of whistleblowers were not prejudiced in any manner.

"The bill provides that any person who unlawfully and intentionally discloses classified information in contravention of the Act is guilty of an offence, except where such disclosure is protected under the Protected Disclosures Act, 26 of 2000."

The Protected Disclosures Act, commonly referred to as the "Whistleblowers Act", sets out detailed procedures and steps that whistleblowers must follow when disclosing unlawful activities, incompetence or corruption in organs of state.

"The bill does not interfere with these rights of whistleblowers," he said.

He said the ANC prefers an approach where if anyone comes across classified information and wants to use it, that person must follow the procedures set out in the bill and apply for permission to do so.

"The bill also has a faster procedure where a person can apply for access to classified information if it is linked to an imminent and serious public safety or environmental risk."

Comments
  • Transkie Sun - 2011-11-22 22:56

    Communist, Shameful, sickness, uneducated, lying, selfish, blasphemy, no god, poor, disease, greedy, gluttony, anger, lawless, racist, SOUTH AFRICA may god save your sole

      Ulvenkai - 2011-11-22 23:06

      Yeah, "soles." I guess it's a long walk to freedom. Ironic then that the godless countries are the most free, liberal, open and crimeless. I firmly blame superstition and backward mindsets for the evils that have befallen this country.

      Heinrich - 2011-11-22 23:16

      I always thought there was something fishy going on.

      aardvarkie - 2011-11-23 00:55

      Uhm good luck with that rant, may you learn the difference between a sole and a soul, and may you remove yourself from your keyboard and make a difference instead - one that is constructive and positive - is my wish for you.

      steve.luckie - 2011-11-23 01:09

      @Refilwe First of all your view doesn't represent the entire black population and your argument is irrelevant because it's base on your deep rooted hatred for white people. The bone of contention in this blog is about the secrecy bill, no need to turn a blind eye when the ruling party introduce a bill that the NATS used to suppress the media. The media (btw SA is not yet a fully fledge democratic country) is the cornerstone in a democratic system and should remain free and independent.it's quite obvious that the ANC government is above everyone else. No accountability or responsibility! Obviously, this will help them to cover up all their corrupt arms deals.

      Wilbert - 2011-11-23 02:06

      Too true and the politicians have a law to allow them to hide all these things from the people.

      Stefan - 2011-11-23 05:55

      hahahahahaha!!! Refilwe.... buddy buddy buddy... I take it the government is doing everything for you right now right??? hahahaha.. they are going to backstab you just like the backstab the whites.. you watch and see my friend.... look at Zimbabwe... because ONE person wants power... DICATORS FREE THEMSELVES, BUT ENSLAVE THE PEOPLE... and you are that PEOPLE TOO!!... i was born there 1985... i went through appartheid... and guess what... IM A SOUTH AFRiCAN too!!! You have NO RIGHT to say that we are criminals and should be treated as criminals.... OPEN YOUR EYES MY FriEND.... Cause you TOO SHALL SUFFER your OWN GOVERNMENT

      Renny - 2011-11-23 06:48

      Its time for the uprising! Let's all fight the cANCer, it's time we take back our democracy!

      Bob - 2011-11-23 08:20

      Refilwe, you are the epitomy of all that is wrong in this country, you are hateful and a complete racist, you have clearly been brain washed by the sick people that want to take everything this country has for them selves, and trust me it is for themselves, you will get nothing but crumbs, most of the people commenting on here are doing so with a free mind and not clouded with racist views, they just want a just and fair life for all South Africans.

      Paul - 2011-11-23 08:29

      @Refilwe - you need some psychological help. Would you accept my offer to pay for some counseling and psychiatric guidance from a professional? I'll even take you to the sessions if you cant get there yourself. I hate to see someone suffering such persecution as you do.

      Ryan - 2011-11-23 08:42

      Refilwe, you ignorant fool. this bill has drawn widespread condemnation from the Nelson Mandela Foundation, the Helen Suzman Foundation, Archbishop Tutu, all opposition parties (including COPE and IFP), your black brothers in COSATU and SAMWU, a SA anti-apartheid activist and Nobel Prize winnner Nadine Gordimer ... just to name a few here in SA. how do you explain that ??????? are these people not black or respected enough ??????

      Kay - 2011-11-23 08:44

      @refilwe, simple question, how old are you? I hope you arent like 20 cause then u need a fat slap, im 20 never knew apartheid just btw , and i didnt support it and im white, but you want to come and tell me cause im white im nothing , im not racist i just hate u. patheitic small minded creature. Tired of being nice to people like you to try save this country but you know what f u and just for your little information you are going down with all of us so get a back bone open your eyes and fight with us or let sh.t hit this country and trust me theres millions pretty much against what you said now, goodluck when you down with us cause i will not give you the slightest bit of help... a$$hole, excuse my outburst but this is becoming pathetic now.

      Ryan - 2011-11-23 08:49

      by the way Refilwe, in case you didn't know, Ironman is actually a WHITE guy. so since you got this chip on your shoulder, don't you think you should find yourself a black superhero. if there are any.

      MadMorgs - 2011-11-23 13:53

      EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION!!!!!!! EDUCATION IS KEY!!!!

      Willie - 2011-11-23 13:54

      Make a difference your ranting is not gonna help you buddy

      Lordwick - 2011-11-24 21:05

      What do you know about education? Most of you guys has bought the qualifications pre-94 cz u were scared...and you are now benefiting from that? Most of you are so stupid that they fail their studies even if they are taught in your mother tongue?Dum nation!!!

      Lordwick - 2011-11-24 21:07

      You see now trollers,why deleted refilwe's post,i hope the post was getting into you like Julias Malema's vision.

  • Mantsho - 2011-11-22 23:03

    It is not over,its just the beginning.This man with double head is a one term president,he will never see the second term!

      Atholl - 2011-11-23 05:20

      The Info Bill is not bigger that the Bill that matters : the Bill of Rights. Not even a Judge in the High Court, Supreme Court of Appeal or ConCourt has the right to remove the right to Freedom of expression: See the Evidence at : http://respondsa.co.za/Evidence/U_LL_Intimidate_the_Truth.htm

      Sthe - 2011-11-23 06:34

      @Do u really want our president to be removed in Polokwane nxt year? then who must b nxt president?lol

      Jerhone - 2011-11-23 08:14

      to Sthe next president anyone with brains who really cares for his people

      jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 08:28

      @Sthe anyone outside of the cANCer would be better. I want Zille to be president, mainly because she isn't controlled by her balls ! We have never had a woman president , why not ?

      Ryan - 2011-11-23 10:19

      I hope you right Mantsho. but more so than that, I hope the ANC doesn't see another term because they stuffing the country up for everyone, black and white

      Sthe - 2011-11-23 14:37

      if u all u want to remove Zuma, obvious the new President will agree on these Risky ANCYL demands, meaning you want S.A to be like Zimbabwe,Why u people dont give credit where its due?

      Sthe - 2011-11-23 14:42

      I thought we r serious here, but if u saying a member of an opposition party can b a president,seems as if u DREAMING. *keep on dreaming* Pissed

      Randomhero6661 - 2011-11-23 15:08

      I will be your president people! believe in me... What you say

      Vuyo - 2011-11-23 16:40

      Sthe, next year's conference will be in Mangaung. And Jacob Zuma will most likely be replaced or perhaps recalled. We will be purged of this thug - just watch.

      Sthe - 2011-11-23 22:18

      @Vuyo, u prefer Cde Zuma to be replaced buy someone who will implement these ANCYL polices easy,like taking Land 4rom the farmers by force.

  • Etienne - 2011-11-22 23:05

    All the other comments have been deleted :p

      Heinrich - 2011-11-22 23:19

      What do you expect? It's illegal, mate!

      ezekiel.ratshefola - 2011-11-23 09:47

      to sensetive to be published I geuss.

  • paul.maarman - 2011-11-22 23:07

    ANC majority 1994-2019, thank you and good bye!

      jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 08:37

      @paul.maarman , I would agree if the cANCer used best political practices to get the majority vote , but they didn't. Making promises that you can't keep , handing out food parcels from TAX money for cANCer propaganda , is unethical at best. Watch what will happen closer to voting time , the cANCer will openly flaunt food parcels and promises that they will not , not can't will not follow through with. Its a shame really , we used to have a beautiful country when Madiba was president ! What happened ?

  • Eduard - 2011-11-22 23:09

    The poor dumb ANC, this bill is going to cost them millions of votes (and even Cosatu does not like the bill). And as for Trevor heckling the opposition, sies man, I thought you are a decent man.

      TamaraSays - 2011-11-23 01:43

      Nope. It's to protect the corrupt cronies who are robbing us all blind. Idjit.

      Wilbert - 2011-11-23 02:21

      The tragedy of this case is that many blacks see it as a black vs white issue and will therefore vote accordingly. The reality is it is about freedom and democracy and that knows no race, gender, or any other division. What ANC leaders are doing is play the race card just to confuse the blacks for their own selfish gain. This is the price the whole nation is paying for the years of racism by the whites!

      Juan - 2011-11-23 04:33

      @Refilwe this bill protects the corrupt and wrongdoers. The ANC has now shown it's true colours by steamrolling this unconstitutional act into law by threatening MP's to vote in favour or else.... Absolutely disgusting. This has nothing to do with race

      Albert - 2011-11-23 07:47

      of course ,Trevor will support this bill.Most of the corruption in this country took place on his watch,like the arms deal.

      Jack - 2011-11-23 07:52

      Look no further than Africa, the biggest failure of the world. Without whites this country would have erupted in civil war many years ago, now it';s just a matter of time before the locals burn it down to the ground. A lovely country ruined by these bafoons, what a pity. Atleast will still have the Western Cape and declare that an independent state where we can all live in peace without crime, murder, corruption rape....etc. A place where we can be left alone!!!

      Sammy - 2011-11-23 08:23

      Refilwe, Sounds like you're getting some lekka kick backs from someone in that siff corrupt goverment? white & black bla bla bla piss OFF you Verwoerd wannabe!

      Paul - 2011-11-23 08:33

      Refilwe wrote "because we speak good english" - No you don't sir. Not at all. And none of this discussion is centred around who can speak what in which way one little bit. Its about something else entirely. You just cant understand it because of your persecution complex. Get some help !!!

      ronald.stilianou - 2011-11-23 09:05

      Refilwe Rakoma- I find it hard to think that you have a B comm in economics, because surely you will understand what this kind of thinking leads to (just look at Zim.) another thing, does everybody at SUMA AFRICA PRODUCTIONS share your racist views?, I'll be sure to send them some of your views and maybe some to your clients as well.

      caryn.dawson - 2011-11-23 09:17

      Uh, Refilwe last time I looked Trevor Manual wasn't black?? Also I'd hate to live in your paranoid brain where it would appear white people are out to get you - catch a wake up bud, my South Africa that I live in everyday doesn't have a race or colour, it just has normal people who want to live a life in a beautiful country not governed by a bunch of dictators - sound familiar??? To be you with all that hatred must be exhausting!!

      Repline - 2011-11-23 09:26

      @ Refilwe, Lol keeping telling yourself that, babes. You probably also believe that the tooth fairy is real don't you? I am sick and tired of this sick, corrupt and mis-managed ANC government. Their promises are worth as much as their integrity. Come vote day, they have one less vote on their tally. This is not the party that led us to a free and fair democracy and it is time, refilwe, you start to see what the party is standing for. Stop blaming the white people for your own pathetic excuse of a life. And rather joing their hands as I have and build a new SA... one we can actually be proud of.

      Pennylope - 2011-11-23 12:20

      Unfortunately, number of votes won't matter to this dictatorship. This is the first step, second step is to have unfair elections where they will keep themselves in power to continue stealing from the country. Sound familiar?

  • Alva - 2011-11-22 23:10

    Ask for permission to expose corruption and incompetence? Persons should have the RIGHT to expose! How safe are state secrets anyway when Cwele did not even know his wife was a drug dealer! It is blatantly obvious that this bill is a move to cover-up corruption fall out. The Zuma government is the worst thing that could possibly have happened to our country!

      Juan - 2011-11-23 04:39

      I apsolutely agree 100%. The ruling party has lost it's moral compass since Zuma took power. We need an ethical and stong leader for a president. But with a president taking office who recently had more than 700 charges against him squashed due to a technicality, what was one to expect would happen to the ANC?

      Grim - 2011-11-23 14:04

      Lets thank Julias for this one again as wasnt it him who faught so hard t o get JZ into presidency. What a dumpty.. as it goes they couldnt put it back together again.. sorry SA but first step is silencing the media.

  • corrinne.pillay - 2011-11-22 23:13

    As a person who holds a Communications degree, I am utterly apalled by this Bill and what it stands for. As an expat, even though I miss my home it's these things that make me fearful for the future of South Africa.

      Raymond - 2011-11-23 22:36

      If you were here, you have helped fight the cANCer with your vote. You ran ~ now be quiet

  • rlong1952 - 2011-11-22 23:18

    I have always maintained that the ANC want to turn SA into a Communist State and this is the first step towards that goal. They deny wanting to nationalise mines and banks but I think we are in for a rude shock, they will be next, then it is finally bye bye for SA. We will sink to the levels of Zimbabwe and North Korea. So sad to watch the demise of a once great country at the hands of criminals posing as members of Parliament.

      TamaraSays - 2011-11-23 01:44

      If this is forgiveness, then my friend, what do you do when you hold a grudge?

      rlong1952 - 2011-11-23 01:59

      Refilwe.......... you are so naive. 'Black people have done nothing but love you'. What about all the farm murders? Is that nothing? Remove your head from the sand before it is too late. Your 'leaders' are conning you.

      rlong1952 - 2011-11-23 02:00

      By the way Refilwe....... I don't hate blacks, I hate criminals who steal from you all.

      Perfume - 2011-11-23 08:10

      Refilwe, do you have anything positive to say regarding the passing of this Bill. Do you know what this actually means, do you really think your precious ANC had you or any other that voted them into power in mind, when voting for this Bill yesterday???? There will come a time that you will wish that you thought otherwise.

      jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 08:50

      @Refilwe IronMan Rakoma lol. "black people have done nothing but love you but you still hate us" Awesome response. What about white farmers being systematically killed ? And extremely high crime rates against all citizens ? And the blatant AA , BEE that excludes everyone else except black people ? Why is it always about race? But what happened to the rainbow nation ? During apartheid black people were not the only victims , white had to keep away from other races , it was illegal to mix , Indians and people of colour were also segregated , why aren't they included in BEE and AA ? Is that not racist ?

      MadMorgs - 2011-11-23 13:54

      ONCE AGAIN - EDUCATION IS KEY!

      Grim - 2011-11-23 14:07

      JZ was part of the communist party in his younger days. Then the relationship with MAlema who also has ties to communism are so worrying. The first step to communism is silencing the media which is almost through and the next steps are the mines and banks which have already started. Sorry but its now time for Apartheid in reverse and communism knocking on the door.

      Randomhero6661 - 2011-11-23 15:13

      Guys i think Refilwe is a troll! and everyone is sweating it out ah this is racist and that and refilwe just chuckles away! Its the second thread he just mysteriously disappears... What's a troll? -> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling

  • Ismaeel - 2011-11-22 23:35

    We with you all the way Helen, Somebody has to stand up against ANC.... It's unfortunate that ANC supporters stay narrow minded and cannot see what’s happening.... Eish

      Ronald - 2011-11-23 00:21

      Refilwe, at least this is one f-up that cannot be laid at the door of apartheid. You will have to shoulder that burden yourself with all the other people that kept these self serving politicians in power. You can't even say "the devil made me do it".

      Rugby-World - 2011-11-23 00:56

      Refilwe IronMan Rakoma: If you think narrow minded means dumb then you are the only dumb one!

      Juan - 2011-11-23 04:54

      @refilwe your comments have nearly left me speechless. Your view is so off base it's asstounding. I bet your ANC comrades who voted in favour of this bill thinks the same way. God help us all

      jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 09:00

      I can see why our schools systems don't work ! Its easier to control an uneducated country , because they don't follow politics (except when you vote for cANCer or not), they don't ask the right questions, its usually about food or alcohol and its make the public really gullible ! The cANCer has purposely left the majority uneducated so the general public will believe there lies , can't get decent work and have to rely on hand outs ! I find it scary that the Government use grants from TAX payers money to keep the poor's votes.

      Grim - 2011-11-23 14:11

      suppose thats where MAlema was good.. at rallying his troops. Its time the rest of the country stood up and took action instead of waitng for others to do so. Yes Helen may say things but when was she last in Kyalitcha or in soweto or in the townships getting the name out. Drive through soweto and you will see so many posters of Juliass and the anc so if thats all they see then surely thats all they know. Time to stand up yourself and get out there yourself.. lets stand up and educate to make the change from the current dismal situation.

      Raymond - 2011-11-23 22:45

      @Grim ~ The ANC have started this 'use the land properly' thing. Saw Jacob Showerhead with a spade (on TV). I thought that the DA had missed a chance there.

  • Heinrich - 2011-11-22 23:42

    I am very disappointed in you, Helen. In fact I am the Helen. You are in charge of the entire Western Cape, and you allow these ANC clowns to come down here and make a mockery of our demockery. You did nothing to stop them. You could have shot off that cannon on signal hill all the time and frightened the lot away. You could have told all of Cape Town to park their cars at the Government buildings and hoot the whole afternoon. You could have gotten the seagulls to divebomb these crooks and steal their Kentucky and chips.You could have put thumbnails and itching powder on their seats.You could have swopped the red and green voting lights around. You could have demanded a recount. And a recount. And a recount.You could have fed the speaker some special chocolate. So much you could have done, and you waste your time on silly little things like ethical, accountable, efficient and transparent local government in a country where the inverse attracts votes.

      Heinrich - 2011-11-23 06:46

      Ironman : How can I be unhappy with democracy if I've never experienced it? Thanks for allocating a problem to me. You seem to be one of those who have a problem to match every solution, and its always black and white. Try seeing wrong/right. And try looking forward, in stead of backwards.

      MissusMads - 2011-11-23 06:49

      Hahaha! Haven't laughed this much in ages! Sadly, we already have a 'prankster' and foolish government making a mockery of things...

      Paul - 2011-11-23 08:40

      Yes Heinrich, sure. All of these things could have been done. But just think of the day when the Constitutional court announces that this Bill is unlawful. The ANC will be wiped clean. Perhasp this is what is needed to finally show thos bigots and bullies that they are only government for the people and not the owners of SA. I look forward to that wondrous day. over 300 civil rights movements will apply to the CC plus the DA plus Cosatu. The ANC MP's gleeful childish faces shown yesterday will soon turn into "slinking dark misery" when they get put into their place. This huge event is coming and that will be a big party day for us all I'm sure of that.

      Barbicus247 - 2011-11-23 12:27

      Paul if i may ask who are the rightful owners of SA?The whites, Cooperates and white judiciary protecting white media interests?Why is it this Bill troubles you people.I went thru the whole 30 paged Bill last night and in my opinion it is very fair.Tell me what it is that you oppose in the Bill. The time has come for you white folk to stop blindly opposing everything the government proposes.How has SA been operating all along?Our can your intelligence's info be so exposed to the media?Every democratic and non democratic gvt has this law, and why should SA be an exception?

  • Polotic - 2011-11-22 23:43

    Although an Opposition supporter, I have always had respect for Trevor Manuel. However his conduct in Parliament today has disappointed me no end. Methinks he has also something to hide with regards to the Arms deal. Why did he have to sue Terry Crawford-Brown some while ago. To cover up?

      Jimmy - 2011-11-23 00:04

      Spot on - now it all makes sense

      Adam - 2011-11-23 07:21

      Polotic, Trevor was never the one with the brains,Maria Ramos was the clever one, and without her Trevor would have bankrupted this country when he was playing minister of finance.Trevor Manuel is a no brainer.

      Albert - 2011-11-23 07:53

      You are right adam.I have met some of his schoolmates.

      Kay - 2011-11-23 08:55

      refilwe you need to go see a physcologist , cause u have some deep insecurities about being black, and why u so defensive all the time, we talk about the bill you make it a racist issue dude seriously i think white people are so gatvol of people like you, dont call me a racist when i help your kind on the street, and i bet u turn a blind eye on them, you need serious help.

  • david.klompas - 2011-11-22 23:56

    I have read the bill and am appalled. I was able to find more than two dozen ways to use this bill to promote corruption and cover up important information that the public should know. And Trevor Maneul. I cannot believe it.

      Trudy - 2011-11-23 14:39

      Trevor is 'n moegoe

      glyn.morgan.96 - 2013-02-26 21:23

      Tip for Trevor - Get lost, your popularity is history.

  • Darryl - 2011-11-23 00:38

    Why the secrecy bill is pointless Step 1) Upload state documents anonymously to a wiki-leaks or similar site (using TOR and taking necessary precautions) Step 2) Delete and destroy the documents that are in your possession (they're on the internet now!). Step 3) Post links to it in a few random forums (Fishing forums, civil rights forums, create a fake account) Step 4) As a journalist, reference those links and quote from them (it's already in the public sphere!!! They're on the internet not in your "possession"). Step 5) Congratulate yourself for circumventing this retarded bill. So I ask to the politicians, what exactly have you achieved? When last did spy's infiltrate South Africa and cause us harm? Why are you not spending more time dealing with POVERTY, CRIME, CORRUPTION and INEQUALITY?

      aardvarkie - 2011-11-23 01:16

      Exactly.

      Sean - 2011-11-23 01:35

      Spot on !

      Perfume - 2011-11-23 08:15

      SPOT ON!!!!!!!! I like this Step 3) Post links to it in a few random forums (Fishing forums, civil rights forums, create a fake account)

      jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 09:10

      The cANCer doesn't need spies ! They are destroying themselves from the inside.

      frans.visserdsb - 2011-11-23 16:19

      What worries me - who are these enemies of the state this bill is supposed to protect us from? What external force threatens our National security? Zimbabwe? Botswana? Ethiopian pirates? Or are they scared of the Boeremag? No, the only threat the govrnment faces is public scrutinyu of their nefarious activities...

  • Secrecy - 2011-11-23 01:07

    Get all the information and help create a central place to fight the Bill - http://www.secrecybill.co.za

  • aardvarkie - 2011-11-23 01:15

    I will never cower to any law where my honour, my truth and my integrity is in question. I swear an allegiance to myself and not to any religion, politician or powers that be. I will allow myself to make mistakes and give myself opportunity to apologise, failing which I will allow others to educate me when I am unanimously wrong. I will never benefit off others hurt, or seek pleasure in other peoples pain, should I do so I accept any punishment by rational and compassionate beings. I endeavor to further the human race, not because of my offspring, but for the offspring off others who are like myself - blood, meat and bones.

  • rlong1952 - 2011-11-23 01:56

    Perhaps they should do what they do in Korea when they can't reach agreement!! http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2011/11/116_99339.html

  • Wilbert - 2011-11-23 02:03

    This is a very sad day for SA!

  • Ettiene - 2011-11-23 04:46

    The media mostly brought this over themselves. Their reporting became elaborately focused on attacking the ANC. An ex DA councilor was arrested in George last week by the HAWKS for tender fraud amounting to +/- R1.2 million, while he was in elected office. Now, this is indeed far less than the cadres have been accused of defrauding, but still...it should be news worthy don't you think? I just don't see newspapers reporting on it, and I know for a fact that certain big newspapers were contacted with regard to this matter. This in itself gives me reason to doubt the independence of the media. But the secrecy bill may not be the way to handle the problem.

      Siotine - 2011-11-23 12:28

      oh...Shut up ettiene...just a personal dig at you. ettiene is a crap name. Its a very winey name and sounds a bit mosquito like, very irritating.

      Joseph - 2011-11-24 00:49

      WC and Midvaal are o corrupt,but hey they are run by a white person.Its not news worth hence they are not on the frant page of the Sunday Times and the Mail and Gurdian.

      Kevin - 2011-11-24 15:37

      STFU...you two morons!!!Why don't you girls together and have a Whitey Bashing tea party.Wake -up it's about the Bill and not racism iceholes.

  • Tony - 2011-11-23 05:07

    This is a dark day for SA and one all will come to regret but probably too late. Now is the time to set-up an Internet site where these excesses can still be reported without fear of being suppressed. By passing this piece of legislation surely everyone can see where we are heading. Cry the beloved country.

  • Linda - 2011-11-23 06:04

    IF THE DA WINS THIS BATTLE, THEY ARE CERTAIN TO HAVE MY MEMBERSHIP, WHAT PROMPT UP THE NEED FOR THIS ACT? WHO IS BEING PROTECTED HERE?

  • Ben - 2011-11-23 06:12

    It appears as if the sudden urgency with passing the Bill into law has everything to do with the Weapons scandal - by the time the Commission of Enquiry appointed by the President commences its work, most if not all of the documents relating thereto would be classified as secret under the new Law and not be accessible!

      Kevin - 2011-11-24 15:40

      You think Ben???...great assumption,the rot goes all the way to the top,some even say to the old man himself.

  • mr.james.preston - 2011-11-23 06:27

    Wow, the spelling on these forums is astounding. Such educated readers.

      Ian - 2011-11-23 07:27

      people are angry and frustrated, do you blames us????????

      Paul - 2011-11-23 08:45

      Perhaps mr.james.preston, the ANC government should be rather teaching some of the journalists to write and spell in more correct form instead of being concerned to cover their own self-expanding rhetoric?

      Silvana - 2011-11-23 14:04

      @mr.james.preston. English is my third language. Which is your third language? If your sole purpose of coming onto this sight is to correct people's spelling, I would suggest that your time would be better spent doing a crossword puzzle.

      Barrie - 2011-11-23 14:30

      @ James = Rpick sorry....Prick

  • visko.vandermerwe - 2011-11-23 06:49

    Why on earth would they make a law like THAT in SA? I can only imagine....

  • Simon - 2011-11-23 06:54

    Haven't these people learnt yet , in the 17 years since the 94 elections this country have gone from bad to even worst. Personally I think that what was decided yesterday was the end of SA. Why do you want to hide anything from the people who voted for you and the residence of this country, I will tell you why , If you can hide all the money you take illegally , buy all the firearms and weapons , plan a war without any public member knowing about it because the media is to scarred to report as they will get arrested , guess what , all that happens now is get CCN, Sky news , outside the borders of SA to report it as you have no say over them and cant arrest them , remember ANC their is always something you miss and slip up with and how do they say , where their is a way their is a will. We give you rope and more and will even buy more that you can hang yourself

  • Ruan - 2011-11-23 07:03

    WESTERN CAPE INDEPENDENCE NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Ruan - 2011-11-23 07:10

      Theyre too ignorant to remember that theres wikileaks,facebook and twitter to exploit their pillaging and criminal activities,the world is much smaller today,the truth can still be exploited for all to see on this little screen,what they gona ban twitter and facebook??? dumbazzes

  • malcolm - 2011-11-23 07:06

    I was too young to vote during apartheid, but at the time, like many young South Africans, I was taught the evils of apartheid, and my parents voted in opposition to the National party. If I was old enough, I would certainly have done the same. The sad thing is that I believe that apartheid existed only because of the fear of many whites what chaos would happen if blacks ruled South Africa in a democracy. The ANC sadly are proving the apartheid regime correct. Its exactly what is happening. It is my wish that a genuine government representing all walks of life in South Africa and with their true interests at heart, could take leadership of this wonderful country. We have possibly more potential to prosper than any other country in the world. The ANC is a disgrace and have definitely betrayed the people, and in particular the disadvantaged.

      nhlakanipho.maseko - 2011-11-24 23:30

      if you believe that apartheid existed to quell the "fears" of white people you seriously need to see a shrink, you've been utterly brainwashed. Just look around you - the mountains, the sea, rivers, the gold and platinum. What white man would want these in the hands of a BLACK. Wise up young man.

  • Ian - 2011-11-23 07:12

    morning all, a line from inglorious bastards, 'All the rotton eggs are converging into 1 basket, well blow up the basket' They are all getting together for there tax payer sponsered 100 million rand piss up.

  • Wesley - 2011-11-23 07:13

    Seriously.... we cant let this happen... now the fat cats can do what they do without any worry... seriously we need to fight these corrupt and immoral leaders...

      Ian - 2011-11-23 07:25

      read my comment above, they used violence, why shouldnt we, except the targets will be THEM the corrupt anc fatcats, not innocent people

  • Elle-Black - 2011-11-23 07:17

    "It is firmly in line with best international practice as states have constitutional obligations to protect their people and territorial integrity." What sort of suckers do they take us for? so they are gonna lie to us for our own good coz they know what's good for us more than we do? Anyway it's cool they have no idea just how many voters they have just shoved into the DA with this bill,Helen Zille knows this and that's why she not making too much of a noise about this

  • Bobo - 2011-11-23 07:21

    @ Refilwe The Strong man : By your comment on News 24 you just branded yourself as a RACIST.

  • Gerry - 2011-11-23 07:46

    Why should we pay tax when these conniving ANC marxist steal the fruits of our labour to feather their own nests?! Lets withhold our taxes and see how long these pontificating imbeciles last without any money. The time for a tax revolution is here!

      Kevin - 2011-11-24 15:46

      SARS works so efficiently...takes a crook to catch a crook!!!Look who's at the helm!!!

  • Siyanda - 2011-11-23 07:48

    I personally did not like the new Bill at all and when I took a closer look at how the media has been destroying characters through its freedom of press I immediately changed my stand and becam absolutely in support of this Bill. The media has done so much damage. We are sick and tired of hearing how bad our black leaders are. We are still bearing the scars of the apartheid governement through poverty, inequality etc and you have a bloddy NERVE to claim a right to assissinate our freedom leaders. This Bill we support to hell with you. You have manipulated everything through this media. The judgement you are passing on Maharaj is your latest project to destroy, kill, and steal. Bloody white agents!

      Paul - 2011-11-23 08:50

      and you will always carry the scars of apartheid as long as this ANC led government is in power. They have to helped heal on part of the 'past' but rather continue to keep our people living in a manipulated state. The very fact you still continue to hold 'freedom leaders' as important in your concepts shows that you are and never will be truly 'FREE'. You're an "Agenda Agent' dude.

      Polotic - 2011-11-23 09:15

      @Kenny. You are blinded by the truth. The media is not passing judgement on Mac Maharaj. All they have done is to report on uncovering of a document which proves that his wife received over R2million from one of Shabir Shaik's companies. Mac himself protests too much accusing the media of breaking the law. And he refuses to answer questions directly. Was it not the illegally obtained tapes that torpedoed the case against President Zuma? Obviously what is good for the goose is not good for the gander!

      jody.beggs - 2011-11-23 09:21

      WOW , how many more years would the cANCer government need to stop using the past and a base line. We've just dropped one racist government, to a worse racist government ? Instead of a white elite its a black one ! Where is the rainbow nation everyone needs ?

      Adam - 2011-11-23 09:40

      You say "passing on maharaj", I surely would love to be " pissing on maharaj" ....as for trevor my dog can also roll over and look cute for me,but he has more brains than trevor.

      Elle-Black - 2011-11-23 11:42

      Kenny you trylu sound like you havent taken your pills today,please do so immediately becuase yoy sound like you are a danger to yourself and those around you

      Silvana - 2011-11-23 14:16

      I have never EVER read an article that refers to the colour of our leaders. Even though I didn't vote for them they are leaders of this country, therefore they are my leaders too. You are free to support whomever you like, that's democracy, but to cling to a party for old time's sake is ludicrous. They are NOT the ANC of the apartheid era.

      Kevin - 2011-11-24 15:48

      Hey my black agent....what are you smoking???

      monkinsane - 2011-11-30 13:26

      If they weren't bad - the media would have nothing to report. Wake up and smell the ashes, this country is on a one way road down the toilet - and this bill is the first step. Stop sticking your head in the sand and pretend that nothings wrong - OPEN YOUR EYES!

  • Perfume - 2011-11-23 08:03

    The draft law introduces prison sentences of up to 25 years for publishing state secrets and up to 15 years for revealing information about the operations of the intelligence community...this should of been implemented to every minister that has been STEALING taxpayers money, for their own self gain. This surely makes us South Africans believe that the ANC believe they are untouchable, nothing lasts long.

      MadMorgs - 2011-11-23 14:28

      Agree with you Perfume - starting to like you - besides that... lets start with imprisonment for murder, rape etc etc we all know the story... before we start worrying about secrets being let out..

  • Sarel van Deventer - 2011-11-23 08:11

    internet is n wonderlike ding. Maak n web site oop soos wikileaks en publish als da in, so kan die media van dit af aanhaal, dis onmoontlik om goed weg te steek met n free flowing internet

      Paul - 2011-11-23 08:52

      and next to come under ANC attack will be 'the internet'.

      Sarel van Deventer - 2011-11-23 09:58

      dis moeilik, dis soos om porn weg te steek vir n orige laitie, so te se onmoontlik

      monkinsane - 2011-11-30 13:30

      Hulle kan die internet ook reguleer - kyk na China.

  • Cameronl - 2011-11-23 08:18

    AH man this is all just crazy!!! If only we could put Helen Zille in presidency, she really is something amazing, I have no doubt if she were in the driving seat of this country, things would change and for the betterment of the nation (for all skin colours)

  • Sharkshoot - 2011-11-23 08:59

    Heading towards another Syria.

  • rulinda.engel - 2011-11-23 09:08

    Oi daar is altyd a drol in die drink water....

  • Keith - 2011-11-23 09:09

    What a tragedy to see the way South Africa is becoming more and more like the rest of Africa. Who ever thought that the struggle by Mandela and many others would end like this. As a frequent annual visitor from the UK to SA we see changes every year and not many for the better. Only more gravy for some and a lot less for others. Oldflyboy

      Joseph - 2011-11-24 00:54

      For as long as black people are suffering the recently voted media bill will not be of any significant to the black majority,it wont be worth fighting for.

  • Transkie Sun - 2011-11-23 09:12

    Communist, Shameful, sickness, uneducated, lying, selfish, blasphemy, no god, poor, disease, greedy, gluttony, anger, lawless, racist, SOUTH AFRICA may god save your sole

      Vuyo - 2011-11-23 17:15

      I believe our fishing supplies are in fact under threat Transkie Sun. But that's a discussion for another time.

  • Nola2711 - 2011-11-23 09:20

    @Refilwe you certainly fall under the dumb category. You don't know the difference between "ALLOWED" and "ALOUD", "NARROW MINDED" and "DUMB". If you going to have a big mouth you should also have a Big Brain to back it up you Retarded Freak!!!

  • george.efstratiou - 2011-11-23 09:22

    The Rand plummeted to R8,43 against the Dollar after yesterdays outcome.... Enough said

  • Nathi - 2011-11-23 09:50

    Who's fooling who? You may cover and pull wool over the eyes of the masses, but sooner or later the wool gets eaten by moths and the masses eyes are open to see what's happening. Our current government is walking down a road that is gonna destroy all that my parents (and I'm sure alot of others' parents) fought so hard (enduring attrocities) for. I thought Apartheid was over, but clearly I am mistaken. I say to all of us, are we gonna stand around and watch our future get ruined?

      Joseph - 2011-11-24 00:52

      i do not think so,the media can`t be governmant.If they want to rule they must form a Media Political party with Helen and Lekota as presidents

  • david.joffe - 2011-11-23 10:02

    We should make every tuesday 'Black Tuesday' until this bill is revoked and freedom restored

      Silvana - 2011-11-23 14:23

      GREAT IDEA! I'm going to do that from now on. Or maybe start a ribbon campaign like they do for breast cancer and aids. Or both. I'm going to get me some black ribbon.

  • Transkie Sun - 2011-11-23 10:39

    Honestly speaking. The honest god fearing people should move to the promise land. Let's go some were peaceful and respectful. Let's leave these shameful people to rot in there own hell. Black., white, Indian, let's go some were safe. We dont need this for our children. I wish transkie was still a independent country.

      nhlakanipho.maseko - 2011-11-24 23:52

      ..TRANSKEI was never an independent country..just a homeland..a ploy by racists to steal our fertile pastures..wake up..

  • Cheryl - 2011-11-23 10:46

    'The government is scared of spies' ...hahahhahahahaha. more like the government is scared they will be caught for ALL THE STEALING THEY HAVE DONE and have got planned for the future hahahahahaha..... Better than the 'Boswell Wilkie' Circus.

  • Cheryl - 2011-11-23 11:06

    There is a perception amongst many black south africans that when a white person critiszes the ANC that is racist....This is a result of the memory of apartheid. How can we as whites make our fellow black south africans realise that 99% of us support a democratic south africa as it is..BUT THIS DOESNT MEAN WE CAN ACCEPT ALL THIS BLATANT CORRUPTION AND FRAUD... in fact our fellow black south africans are foolish nor to join us in this struggle to keep the government on the straight and narrow path... In fact those who support the ANC can be held responsible for the corruption until they vote these thieves out of power...

      Adam - 2011-11-23 11:13

      My view exactly, hold the supporters responsible.Do not pass on any of your skills or knowledge until they vote resposibally

      nhlakanipho.maseko - 2011-11-24 23:56

      ...we just know that 99 percent of you support the DA...leave us BLACK uneducated MASSES alone..we will never..ever put white people in power...not that we hate you..

      nhlakanipho.maseko - 2011-11-25 00:03

      ..the first response (from Adam) is the reason we still bare the pain of oppression...undermining and belittling us won't get you anywhere..."...hold the supporters responsible....until they vote responsibly"...who are you to dictate what a responsible vote is...keep your intelligence an I'll keep my anc...

  • sorryson3 - 2011-11-23 11:17

    Hawks and Doves !! Fear not South Africans, look upon this event in our History as ground breaking !! The current role players in Govt pulled the rip cord as they jumped off Mandela's South Africa and believed that a gentle float down to earth was engineered blind to their electorate. Expected nett result -- personal enrichment !! BUT,..... the fools keep having to contend with shots being fired into their parachute canopy ( service delivery riots, con-court decisions, Juliaaaas, Cosatu and so on ) so the prediction is that BLACK TUESDAY will ultimately fire off the mother of all shotguns into the current ANC Government's Parachute with a ground breaking result SELF DESTRUCTION !!!!! Keep it up if you can comrades !!!!

  • Cheryl - 2011-11-23 11:21

    ''Press freedom will never be under threat in South Africa as long as the ANC is the majority party". Nelson Mandela 19/11/1997

  • Jayne - 2011-11-23 11:35

    @ Refilwe..... is that you Julius????

  • KristyCollis1 - 2011-11-23 11:36

    BUNCH OR CRAP!!!