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Land chair wants 'Bantustans' cleared

2012-05-23 20:14

Cape Town - The chairperson of Parliament's land reform committee wants people out of the over-crowded former "Bantustans" and says the government must make use of its right to expropriate land to do this.

Stone Sizane said after a briefing by the land reform department in Parliament on Wednesday that the government was not making sufficient use of its right to expropriate land.

"South Africans living in greater South Africa should not be over-crowded in Bantustans. Let's not blame the barrenness of the land, the over-grazing and the soil erosion... let's take people out of Bantustans."

Bantustans were largely rural areas set aside by the apartheid government for occupation by blacks, loosely based on tribal identity. They were scrapped in 1994.

Sizane said the Constitution gave the state an instrument of expropriation. If there was a land dispute, the government should "go to court and let the judges adjudicate".

The willing seller, willing buyer model of land reform was a market-driven process and very few rights in South Africa had been entrenched via the market.

"Let's stop flogging this willing seller, willing buyer horse and deal with instruments that will help us redistribute land," Sizane said.

People should be able to settle everywhere in the country.

"Let them settle in the Free State, North West and the Western Cape. Let's not use willing buyer, willing seller. There is a problem there. Let's buy land and distribute it."

Sizane said the research methodology used by the department in a study commissioned to review land acquisition was "questionable".

Ticking time bomb

DA MP Athol Trollip dismissed a suggestion by the department that it would take 54 years to reach the government's target of redistributing 30% of the land.

"A lot of work had been preparatory work to determine and define models," Trollip said.

"In those 18 years a lot of work was around preparation. Reform and meeting those targets should be accelerated in the next three to five years."

A land audit was needed because no one knew how much land had been bought and redistributed.

One ANC MP said the pace of land reform was "slow and ineffective" and was "a ticking time bomb".

"The majority of blacks capable of farming are not credit worthy to be loaned [money] by banks to buy farms," he said.

A ministerial national reference group on land reform had to speed up what it was doing before people started to revolt.

"This is a ticking time bomb," he said.

"This reference group appointed by the minister must speed up."

Comments
  • George Bennie - 2012-05-23 20:22

    You wanna move them again? Didn't it hurt enough the first time - when they were also promised Canaan? Is it just me or we reverting to the same policies as Apartheid and calling it 'liberation'?

      Charles-Bronson - 2012-05-23 21:10

      Corrupted goverment, F@ck you and etolls

      Godfrey - 2012-05-23 21:13

      Agree, currently they have brick houses, what will they received in the new Canaan? Shacks, open toilets??? more service delivery protests.

      Hugh_Influence - 2012-05-23 21:24

      Whole thing is just ridiculous.

      Mark - 2012-05-23 22:47

      Stone Sizane, I tell you what. Lease out just 10% of the "Homeland" ground to good Commercial farmers, with the rent going to the affected Community. That way, rental income is generated and the comparatively huge crops will result in cheaper local food. Instead you want to turn this country into a bigger version of the "Homelands". Get a life man.

      Heibrin - 2012-05-24 10:20

      @George: I'm smelling more a Zimbabwe-type cleanup.

      michael.i.wright - 2012-05-24 16:09

      Nope, this time we need the land to sell to Chinese corporations.

  • Squeegee - 2012-05-23 20:25

    Great idea. Not! Now the ANC can forcibly move people to new areas expropriated from unwilling sellers. Did they learn nothing from the failures of Apartheid? Can you imagine people from the Eastern Cape trying to make a living in the Karoo?

      Bear - 2012-05-23 20:31

      Can you imagine people from the Eastern Cape trying to make a living?

      Bennie - 2012-05-23 20:42

      LOL . The Kalahari Zulu ! Mwaaa haa hhaa

      Judith - 2012-05-23 22:04

      Bear - yes I can as I know many who do

      colin.dovey - 2012-05-23 22:06

      So Helen was right....now the ANC WANTS to make people from the E.Cape refugees.......:-)

      Lenisto - 2012-05-24 00:06

      What's the matter with the Karoo bro?

  • lerato.kay.3 - 2012-05-23 20:28

    Things are getting exciting now, Land to the people! Now that's service delivery !

      Nick - 2012-05-23 21:23

      whaha idiot

      Hugh_Influence - 2012-05-23 21:25

      Ya... er, good luck with that.

      Michael - 2012-05-23 21:43

      Service delivery and land redistribution are 2 totally different topics..you must be in governmont.

      Parys - 2012-05-24 08:41

      Service delivery is a dead duck, as the regime is to corrupt.

      Kala - 2012-05-24 08:48

      And what if they don't want to move?

  • chris.debeer1 - 2012-05-23 20:40

    The Fact that small scale black farmers in Rural areas can not get loans is due to Governments Clinging to Colonial Apartheid Tribal system where land is in Trust and farmer poor folks can not access loans Cause the do not own title to that land PLEASE give the people title to their land so they can develop and get the chiefs traditional leaders and kings to go work for a living and stop benefiting from Apartheid!!

  • Bennie - 2012-05-23 20:41

    Locusts

  • gavin.simpson.0 - 2012-05-23 20:43

    If the ANC and their supporters had blue eyes and blond hair hitler would have been proud of them.....just as stupid they are. Looking around the news these days it's pretty apparent the end is nigh. The ANC have no clue how to run a country, or manage it, so take whatever they can with the blinkers blocking the consequences. A ticking time bomb indeed......

      pws69 - 2012-05-23 22:17

      @Sean, he said ANC, and NOT blacks, don't know how to run a country. Oh, and by the way, the DA run Midvaal was voted BEST municipality in GP AGAIN, and 6th best in the country in the Municipal Productivity Index. Hahahahaha.

  • Crracker - 2012-05-23 20:43

    Land audit and what agricultural/commercial activities are taking place on the land. Why must only some get land? Millions and millions of others also want a piece of land to farm on and become self sustaining. Can see a few little confrontations looming. Not to mention how the urbanites will take it when food becomes a real scarcity because only some are so privleged to have their own little piece of land to use for their OWN little persona and familial benefits. And when land erosion takes over? Irreperable loss to the whole country. Be fair. MANY will want land as well, even if for that short little period before land erosion and overgrazing FANALLY destroy our food security. There is a lot of BS going on.

      bernpm - 2012-05-23 22:03

      "Millions and millions of others also want a piece of land to farm on and become self sustaining." Problem is that you cannot eat land, it has to be worked. This requires knowledge, skills and hard work to survive.

  • Bennie - 2012-05-23 20:44

    Maybe just maybe if not having 20+ Children as part of your Culture this issue may fade away over time??

      Bennie - 2012-05-23 20:44

      yes your culture is to blame !!

  • EricksonTL - 2012-05-23 20:44

    If over crowding is the issue, may I direct their attention to Khayalitsha, where people FROM the Eastern Cape live in a higher density than I've ever seen them in the Eastern Cape? Perhaps the issue for THOSE people, who HAVE homes in the Eastern Cape, and return there at least once a year, don't want to be shunted around the country on the whims of political string pullers (let's face it, it's at least half about voter demographics!) Perhaps the answer, instead of stealing from everyone else, is to leave people on the land they already own in the Eastern Cape, and focus on infrastructure and industry development there? I have not seen many factories in the Transkei area boys and girls. Why is that?

      Judith - 2012-05-23 22:06

      Yes I was surprised by the "overcrowded ex bantustans" as well. It just shows that government hasn't been there and doesn't know what is real!

  • Harold - 2012-05-23 21:03

    Is it not time that the government identify a growth point wherea new city can be developed. The people of the bantustans have already demonstrated their unwillingness to do agricultural work by leaving the ground in the bantustans under utilized. I Cities can be built the people can become indusrialised and more productive and wealthy.

  • Bokfan - 2012-05-23 21:05

    This madness is irreversible, and like rabies it will eventually kill its host. The anc is a dead turd flushing.

  • DanielEwens1 - 2012-05-23 21:11

    An excuse to keep persecuting Julius Malema, whilst the ANC pretend they are delivering on land reform. All hollow air. They dismissed the ANCYL calls to give people land, so anything they say now is simply hot air to get more votes at the elections!

  • pws69 - 2012-05-23 21:12

    Apparently whites own all the land, but no land audit has been done to verify this, only the racist ramblings of corrupt and inept cANCer cadres. The number of white farmers has halved since 1994 40% of the MOST fertile land in the country has already been redistributed over 95% of those farms now lie fallow We have gone from being a nett exporter to a nett importer of food since 1994 A study done a few years ago showed that MORE land comes onto the open market each year than is required to meet the targets, at a LOWER than inflation rate selling price. Why are government not buying this land?

      chris.debeer1 - 2012-05-23 22:03

      Our farm has been offered to Dept Land affairs 3 years ago still awaiting the proses.

  • pws69 - 2012-05-23 21:16

    No commercial bank will loan money to a farmer without collateral. The redistributed land is held in trust and cannot be used as collateral. The Government have a LAND BANK, that should be lending to these farmers at a preferencial rate. What does the LAND BANK do? Lend at a HIGHER rate than commercial banks, and then uses the rest of its money to buy soccer clubs, build golf estates, and townhouse complexes. I'm guessing that will be blamed on whites/apartheid as well.

  • Kevin - 2012-05-23 21:18

    Nobody sees fit to ask the residents of the overcrowded homelands what they want. This is simple they want to make it a political football ahead of the Manguang conference and parlay it as an issue to bolster support in the next general election. It is exactly what Robert Mugabe did in Zimbabwe. The step after this will be the corruption and patronage that follows. Then there will be a decline in food production, necessitating the import of food. This in turn will place the balance of payments under pressure, which in turn will lead to inflation and the rand will decline in value. Doesn't anyone in the ANC have basic reading skills combined with analytical ability. land reform requires that all land in the country be placed in the hands of the users, they need to have title to the land so its value can be unlocked and leveraged into increased agrcultural production, and all the resulting benefits. Before land reform can succeed the tribal title of land must be done away with and the traditional leaders put to work instead of acting as a brake on the development and advancement of the rural people.

      pws69 - 2012-05-23 21:23

      "Doesn't anyone in the ANC have basic reading skills combined with analytical ability." Sadly, it seems the answer is no.

      EricksonTL - 2012-05-23 21:27

      Also, the looming threat of sanctions thanks to our relationship with Iran seems to have been glossed over rather a lot. Imagine if that happens, and we have a fuel AND a food crisis? Eish, ANC. Eish.

  • stanton.clarke - 2012-05-23 21:22

    The large majority of black South Africans are not even natives of South Africa. Who gives the government the right to buy land with my taxes and re distribute it.

      Sean - 2012-05-23 21:37

      The definition of black South African are those who are eligible to vote. Our constitution does not talk about \natives\. These are the ppl who give government rights to do what is best for the country hahaha. is democracy painful?

      pws69 - 2012-05-23 21:39

      You need to understand how it works. ANC cadre identifies land. Tells crony. Crony buys land for R2 million, then sells it THE SAME DAY, to the government for R9 million. Then the ANC cadre complains that the land price is being artificially inflated, whilst pocketing his half of the R7 million "windfall".

  • Peter - 2012-05-23 21:28

    What's he going to do with the "Bantustans" then. Sell them to the Chinese to farm?

      Gladstone - 2012-05-23 21:42

      Who said anything about Chinese? Peter you are a scared moron. The minister is corect, we also have to benefit from our land.

      Crracker - 2012-05-23 21:59

      @ Gladstone The benefits from the land are the employment it offers and our food. What other benefits you may have in mind are definitely for only the elites who are eying that land. Not the average South African of whatever color or creed. By the way, what on earth are all the non-South African Africans doing in this country? They fled their own countries in search of some food and a hope of a better future. We have nowhere to run to.

      Koos - 2012-05-24 06:41

      Gladstone, you will have to turn into an earthworm as they are the only animal I know of that eats dirt and survive.

  • Hermann - 2012-05-23 21:37

    Shame Stone Sizane, have you asked yourself what are those migrants to elsewhere in South Africa are going to do without the spirits of the forefathers they must leave behind. Custom suites when convenient does it not, for the rest political gain at whatever cost. Why not suggest for example all the whites be expelled to the Transkei and the Xhosas invade the rest of the country. Soon the Transkei will be a breadbasket and industrial hub and then the Xhosas will all come back leaving a country destroyed into desolation behind them.

  • izak.greyling - 2012-05-23 21:38

    All the talk about taking land makes me sick. If government takes commercial farming land to settle the underprivileged there,where will our food come from? Who will want to invest in a country without a strong commercial agriculture sector, no one,not even the greedy chinese. Educate people about family planning,stop having dozens of kids you can't feed. We are on a oneway road to zimbabwe.

  • zolisa.dlokovu - 2012-05-23 21:39

    I agree with Mr Stone Sizani.The willing buyer , willing seller policy has failed.The land should be returned to its original owners,the black people.This land was stolen by our oppressors.Our municipalities are struggling when they want to build houses for our poor people due to the fact that a large percentage of our land is still owned by white people.Its unacceptable.Organisations like Azapo said it a long time ago that this policy would never address land redistribution in our country.viva Stone

      Tax - 2012-05-23 21:54

      Go get a job and buy land if you want it you brainwashed ANC stooge.

      EricksonTL - 2012-05-23 21:54

      Okay, then negotiate a repatriation program with Europe, and when we leave, we get to take everything we've paid for with us. Are you really that dim? If my grandfather owned something 150 years ago, and I can't find it today, I can't go and steal from someone else. Yeesh.

      pws69 - 2012-05-23 21:58

      @Zolisa, this is an offer I have made many times without anyone taking me up on it. If I'll convince the, maybe 6 million, whites to leave Africa, if you convince the 30 million plus blacks to leave Europe. Fair trade? I think I'll have the easier job. Deal?

      Christo - 2012-05-23 21:59

      Zolisa - Refering to reported coutcases during the apartheid era, expropriated parties where compensated or moved, I am not approving this, the point I want to make is that since 2000 there is a subsidy per house that local councils can access from province which is enough to build a proper 48m² house, but councils dont use this, Why NOT. Maybe the promised must get informed about this and asked the elected government about this.

      shaun.mcneilage - 2012-05-23 22:28

      don`t forget the land was not occupied by blacks only....remember the bushman, the original cape coloured, then all the different black ethnic groups eg, zulu, xhosa, venda....ok so how would you divide the land to the original inhabitants.....yes it would be great to have more black farmers producing crops, the benefits to have communities feeding themselves and producing crops for SA will have a huge impact for all.....it all must be managed properly...and yes the goverment should seriously consider options to get more black farmers farming

      Parys - 2012-05-24 08:43

      Long before your selective part of history, the land was stolen from the Boers, who had republics that was internationally recognized. That is the truth and that should be fixed, then the rest will fall into place.

      melania.nel - 2012-05-24 14:31

      Wow, you are right. As africa is the cradle of all that is human, according to most textbooks around the world, I count as a beneficiary. I have my eye on a beach property on the south coast. Can't wait to rectify the past!

  • itsdedphukenezi - 2012-05-23 21:39

    Does Stone Sizani have rocks in his head?

  • Christo - 2012-05-23 21:43

    The Chairperson has a point, expropriation works, it happens every day, as long as the compensation is market related and the actual financial loss is calculated correctly. There is funds allocated annually for the redistribution of land but it is not used correctly, in summary the system is there and is good, but the operator is unexperienced which cause problems.

      pws69 - 2012-05-23 22:01

      Christo, it takes up to FIVE YEARS, after all parties have agreed to the terms, to transfer the land. If the IMPLEMENTATION was done right, we would have already exceeded the 30% target, just on land coming onto the market each year, without expropriation having to happen at all. It has nothing to do with willing buyer, willing seller, or expropriation and everything to do with ANC incompetence.

      Christo - 2012-05-23 22:20

      pws69- I agree on the five years but if the initial notice is served with the relevant compensation offered a lot of time will be saved.

      pws69 - 2012-05-23 22:29

      @Christo, I agree. There is also the "decline" factor. Once the farmer has his offer, and all parties have accepted, then there is no incentive to invest further in the farm. By the time the 5 years is up, the farm has either stagnated, or gone backwards. It is a time sensitive transaction, yet there seems to be no urgency. It could, and should, have been done much better, especially after so many years. Instead, the process seems to be going slower than ever. In the end, we all pay for this, through increased food prices.

      Christo - 2012-05-23 22:45

      pws69- I assume you are aware of the green paper on land reform, to convert all land to leasehold, no farm bigger than 49ha,etc the chairperson above dont metion any of this. He is diverting from these proposed actions of Government, wonder how many citizens are aware of this

      pws69 - 2012-05-23 23:04

      @Christo, no, I was not aware of that green paper. I'll definitely check it out. Communism by stealth.

  • Judith - 2012-05-23 22:04

    Please with tears in my eyes give people title to the land they live on instead of leaving them at the mercy of greedy unelected chiefs! Then teach them how to make their land work for them or increase their skills. We need more agricultural colleges providing assistance and training to those who are happy to work their backsides off feeding the rest of us

      colin.dovey - 2012-05-23 22:15

      The first bit of sense on this page.....Agricultural Colleges!

      pws69 - 2012-05-23 22:22

      @Judith, I did some research a few years back. the government spent R20 million building an agricultural college near Middelburg. It did not have a single new student in three years. Part of farm redistribution should be a 1 year agricultural course, mandatory, for 10 selected participants. The successful black LR farms all have one thing in common, a transfer of skill.

  • stiaan1 - 2012-05-23 22:16

    Lets get a petition going for a indepented land audit of the whole SA. Then we can see if this 30% is already re-distributed or not. Because I, as a white south african which was raised in the new SA, am sick and tired of these games that are played to fit someones agenda. We as south africans can make this country a world leader in almost every sector. We have almost everything, but no we rather suffer and spread hatred so we dont have to work

  • jan.henning.14 - 2012-05-23 22:16

    So where will he move them? To the already over crowded informal settlements at the big cities (or Cape Town - to drive the DA out)? Or will he give them profitable agricultural land with no assistance and kill off the farms as the track record to date shows? Eish we need a government with some brains.

  • pws69 - 2012-05-23 22:38

    Another factor that no one seems to be taking heed of in government is the effect of policy failures WRT to farm labour. Over 1 million farm workers have been displaced (willingly or unwillingly) since 2000. Assuming an average family size of 4, 4 million affected people. Where have they gone? 2,700 informal settlements since 1994.

  • paulgerber969 - 2012-05-23 22:41

    i smell a rat! Where does all the squatters come from? Over-crowded "Bantustans" my ass!!! He is eyeing the Western Cape. ANC doesn't like a opposition province in its backyard.Wants too export his Banana cadres there. Land grabbing on the cards!!!!!!

  • paulgerber969 - 2012-05-23 22:52

    Unfortunately the word Separate development with the emphasis on development turned into "Apartheid" that's where the sh?t hit the fan

  • Parys - 2012-05-24 08:40

    Until a proper land audit is done, this whole issue is nothing more than legalized theft.

  • jomardl - 2012-05-24 10:04

    Eish I've seen what happens when land is given to people who don't want to farm. They just lease the land back to those who do. Sure it brings in some money but it's not sustainable. Teach a man to fish and all that. Now that we have failed at creating economic opportunities for the poor, the government wants to undermine successful economic ventures (agriculture)and, possibly food security only to entrench subsistence farming. It's like giving up and accepting poverty.

  • francois.dewet - 2012-05-24 14:14

    So, essentially Black leaders are reverting back to what their ancestors did to other black tribes, which is stealing land and then saying it is to benefit a larger cause!! Wow!

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