News24

Mbalula: Talk about nationalisation

2012-06-23 22:44

Johannesburg - ANC members are afraid to talk about the nationalisation of mines, national executive committee (NEC) member Fikile Mbalula said on Saturday.

“Champion the course of liberation of issues that faces our people today, when the youth league says nationalisation [of mines], economic freedom, some among us are afraid to utter those words. It is like a banned term in the dictionary," he said.

He was speaking at the Peter Mokaba memorial lecture at Ga-Molepo outside Polokwane in Limpopo.

He described Mokaba as an uncompromising leader not easily driven by bitterness against his opponents.

Mokoba was a controversial leader, who was seen as championing the struggle against apartheid.

"[The] fight for economic freedom is defining the strategic future of the ANC, you can never say our people are liberated up until their economic freedom," he said.

He told party members that they would fail the ANC if they don’t raise nationalisation in the party's upcoming policy conference.

"We must never retreat, policy conference is about ideas, it is not about singing about individuals."

He said that nationalisation of mines has proved to be working in Botswana.

Mbalula also warned that if the ANC forget the “masses” it will be the end of the party.

Comments
  • smellarat.smith - 2012-06-23 22:56

    Mr. Mbalula at least you are not proposing the obviously, tragically flawed Zimbabwean model. I guess that is a form of progress judged by the utterly anemic standards of the ANCYL.

      alf.pop - 2012-06-24 07:14

      Mbalula should stick to his job, cut down on wasting tax payers' money and keep away from controversial issues he does not understand. The reason why the nationalisation of mines is suddenly so popular is because of the rising water levels from the mines, which government ignored for years. When people like Sexwale and Motsepe are in favour of nationalisation, it can only mean that they want to pass on the problem to government, so when the proverbial hits the fan they can wash their hands of it and let an incompetent government deal with it! As for Mbalula, shut up and come clean on the Beyonce matter!

      thandiwe.ngema.71 - 2012-06-25 02:58

      Zuma's "2nd transition" is just a ploy to capture some of the extremist votes the ANCYL hang onto. The government know that they cannot nationalize anything as this would send investors running and thus mines would stop working. It would destroy GDP and tax revenue and create masses of unemployment... Similarly the government cannot expropriate land without compensation as productive farms would no longer be operating (you need more than just land to farm - you need technology, business experience, farming experience etc), food prices would rocket (as SA would import more), unemployment would shoot up, and tax income would drop. South Africa CANNOT afford the number of tax-payers to fall as the government would be unable to provide housing for millions, unable to give out grants, unable to fund health and education, unable to fund infrastructure etc The implementation of aggressive policies like nationalization and land grabs will lead to an increase in unemployment, a decrease in productivity, and increase in poverty, an increase in food prices, poorer infrastructure, an increase in government debt (look at the effects of this in Greece) etc. The government does not have a big enough budget to buy the mines outright. If it took the mines illegally, countless international treaties with ALL our trading partners would be broken and we would lose most of our trading capability. Health & education must be a priority for any significant reduction of poverty longterm.

      daniel.jacobs.3766 - 2012-06-25 11:25

      Can somebody please give us an explanation of how the ANC and its Youth League (and their supporters) define and understand 'Economic Freedom'. It seems to me to be a vastly different interpretation of that which is generally understood in the financial world. Is it my imagination, or does the inclusion of the word 'Freedom' cause the phrase to catch on amongst the masses? Could it possibly be interpreted as 'Freedom from the white man's Economic reign'?

      mihaip007 - 2012-06-25 13:28

      LOL - so let me get this right! On the one hand they say that the ancyl needs to go to botswana and "bring about regime change", but on the other hand they make an example of their policies as being a good thing! I am confused! Oh I am saying this because wasn't mbalula buddies with malema? lol

      thabang.bonang.7 - 2012-06-25 13:51

      Fact - The mines in S.A. benefit foreign countries than S.Africans.

      Jacques - 2012-06-25 15:59

      I will be open to the full nationalisation of mines, banks, land, other financial institutions even my own home, if the government can show profit in their already fully owned enterprizes. Till then, I wont hear about it.

      Jacques - 2012-06-25 16:05

      @ Thabang. The majority of the shares in the mining industry are in the posession of South African pension funds. This means that majority of the money they make, goes towards the people who have worked their entire lives and when they retire can look forward to a pension that will sustain them. So if you want to get a piece of the pie, ask around which pension funds invest in the mining indutry in South Africa, and then start a fund with them. EASY

      downwiththeANC - 2012-06-25 22:02

      Nationalisation would MAYBE have worked if we had a competent government...BUT it won't because all the officials are corrupt and greedy. Come on now. Nationalisation won't and can't work in AFRICA.

  • geronimo.feather - 2012-06-23 23:01

    Chickens coming home to roost... Mbalula was previously a president of the ANCYL. In spouting ANCYL tripe he is revealing his true colours... What does "economic freedom" mean? Is there any country in the world where the masses are wealthy? How is nationalisation of mines going to benefit the ordinary unemployed Sipho and the ordinary unemployed Nonhlanhla? Who stands to benefit here, hmmmm? "Economic freedom" mean that the chosen, elite, few are economically "free" to plunder state resources.

      michael.deyzel.1 - 2012-06-23 23:27

      Well put!!!!

      Lincoln - 2012-06-24 00:54

      Geronimo, we cannot afford to behave as is everything that is going on now is fair. We must not be hypocrytes here and continue to ridicule, undermine and criticise what we do not understand or pretend as we do not understand. Capitalism is very inhumane, it is a dof eat dog policy and the only greedy survive. The poor are getting poor and the richer getting poor. Mr Mbalula is making an example that nationalisation works in Botswana and let me inform you it also works in Zimbabwe Implts have a sister company called Zimplats and the shareholders have never run away. The economy of Zim is growing despite the sanctions by the devilish imperialsit west. Imagine the possibilities or the growth would have been if there were no sanctions. Countries like Venezuela have been criticsed by simply using using character assisination propaganda against the resileint, tenacious and visionary leaders of those countries and purpoting them as human rights abusers. How many american and britain soldiers have killed innocent victims, what about the lies that we were fed in Iraq. Saddam Husein was sentenced to death without a fair trial, there my friend is evidence enough to charge the west for human rights abuses. But because we choose to believe a humanitarian policy of nationalisation where it is working in Norway, a european country, Venezuela, China and many countries, we choose to ignore this fact. I am appalled at people like you who seem to want to scare us with your uninformed opinions

      Trevor - 2012-06-24 03:01

      @Lincoln - you ever been in China boetie? I work here and what you sprouting is pure rubbish! You want to see the divide between the rich and poor, come here so try to educate yourself on what is REALLY happening in the world, basing your "experience" on propoganda is not better than what you have just sprouted about the Americans...numb nut.

      oscar.vanriel - 2012-06-24 06:30

      Lincoln, read very carefully: “He who knows not and knows not he knows not: he is a fool - shun him. He who knows not and knows he knows not: he is simple - teach him. He who knows and knows not he knows: he is asleep - wake him. He who knows and knows he knows: he is wise - follow him.” Lincoln, you are just a fool but we cannot shun you so just FOff to your utopia deep in your primitive skull somewhere.

      Ed - 2012-06-25 10:05

      lincoln, yes you dumbo. YES, nationalisation CAN work in SOME instances, although i would definitely not look at Zim as the human rights abuses that occur there in a daily basis, or even what happened in the matabeleland massacres, are shocking. one key element though is that you need a governemnt with the skills and capabilities to handle big business. look at pretty much every state enterprise, from Denel to SAA and you will see a system that is doomed to fail. please go back to school or even varsity, get a degree, then we can talk. PS: maybe also get at least 50% of government ministers and mayors to also at least geet a matric (with maths) before we talk further.

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-06-25 23:28

      Shivers down my spine...SPOT ON!!!!!

  • cameronjohnprice - 2012-06-23 23:10

    Go ahead - talk about it, but the only way that economic freedom wil ever succeed is if we educate the youth (anc fail) Employ the youth (anc fail), maybe create a less violent society (anc faiil)

      dennis.vermaak.5 - 2012-06-24 05:30

      @trevor.bush.9655 : You have hit the african nail on the head !!

      Mart - 2012-06-25 14:08

      MOST OF THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS STEM FROM ONE THING AND ONE THING ALONE, VIS OVER POPULATION. IT IS QUITE ILLOGICAL TO EXPECT THE POOR AND MARGINALISED TO HELP THEMSELVES OUT OF A HOLE IF THEY ARE CONTINUOUSLY WEIGHTED DOWN BY PURE NUMBERS. CREATING EMPLOYMENT FOR THE YOUTH OF THE WORLD WOULD BE DO-ABLE IF THERE WEREN'T SO MANY YOUTH TO CONTEND WITH. i FEAR THAT WE ARE ALSO MUTATING BACKWARDS AND THAT THE AVERAGE INTELLIGENCE OF PEOPLE AROUND THE GLOBE IS DROPPING BECAUSE IT IS NOT THE PRIME STOCK BREEDING, BUT UNFORTUNATELY THE 'WEAKER' MASSES.

  • Robin - 2012-06-23 23:14

    Botswana doesnt have a corrupt and thieving ANC. Already licking your fat lips for a slice of the pie with some gravy. Government can't deliver even text books to schools what about running the mines.

      Brad.Kopping - 2012-06-23 23:30

      Give ROBIN a bells!

      lownabester - 2012-06-24 00:04

      I say give him a few bottles of the good stuff. Well said, Robin.

      gary.wilby.18 - 2012-06-25 15:34

      Exactly Robin, that is AFTER the courts have instructed them to do so!!

  • Brad.Kopping - 2012-06-23 23:27

    Mbaluba...whatever the f**k your name is...nationalise the mines, which will cost just over 3 TRILLION rand, destroy the economy, lose all investors and tourism, leave 100's of thousands jobless, and give the odd thousand rand to the poor people and "liberate" them ok? Just let us people with brains get out of the country and watch from afar first OK??? >:( what a tosser.

      bheki.khumalo.737 - 2012-06-24 10:05

      you should have left yesterday already are still here

      btosuffer - 2012-06-24 12:03

      @Oopiniation...Wil onli stop voting for anc onli wen "JEIZUS" has decided to cum bek.n by the luks of things he wl neva cum bek ani tym soon.until then wl continue to vote for anc.ther is no alternative.ANC FOR EVA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Irene - 2012-06-24 14:18

      borntosuffer ~ Well I sure as hell hope he teaches you to spell if he does come back. You can't even spell his name Bwahahahahahaha! Keep voting cANCer and we'll keep laughing at you while you suffer.

      channing.froom - 2012-06-25 08:46

      @btosuffer HAHAHAHAHA the only spelling in the whole comment you got right was "continue to vote for anc.ther is no alternative.ANC FOR EVA" , shows how powerful propaganda is and the effects. Please dont embarrass yourself by showing your blatant lack of intelligence

  • atholl.canterbury - 2012-06-23 23:28

    Botswana has virtually nil corruption. If there is an 'enemy' in the house then it is crime and corruption - as proven in Hong Kong. { 0% crime + 0% corruption } by the { Few } = { 100% economic freedom } for the { Many }

      Rodney - 2012-06-26 00:55

      Rather disingenuous of him to claim the Botswana mines are nationalised in the first place, they aren't. The government has an agreement with the mining industry that works well for both sides. Problem in SA is that the ANC are so corrupt that any good deal made with the mines will only be for the ANC leaders benefit.

  • kabelohendrick.tshoke - 2012-06-23 23:29

    Mr Mbalula knows very well that has nothing to do with economic freedom, this is about the ANC trying to more money into their pockets, as if stealing from the poor is not enough. What good will it if u gonna steal money as well?? That's what you people know best

      lownabester - 2012-06-24 00:03

      Well said Kabelohendrich, how tired we are of this drivel. All they do is steal from the poor.

      boltonbarry - 2012-06-24 00:38

      Well said Kabelo

  • tobydt - 2012-06-23 23:33

    Mbalula forgets to mention that Botswana is hardcore on corrupt politicians. I dont think the ANC top dawgs will like that model.

  • tobydt - 2012-06-23 23:35

    Fighting for economic freedom... Meanwhile, their education systems are breaking down. Textbooks being destroyed by the government. Half of the year through, and learners dont have reading material. Epic fail.

      Irene - 2012-06-24 02:16

      Not just education. Name a department that isn't broken down.

  • bernardbenz.ripinga - 2012-06-23 23:45

    Minister Mbalula, my enquiry is wether we have the right people with the right skill to run the mines fruitfully so? Seemingly the idea of nationalisation is feasible but iam of the view that government is currently not ready and well armed with the right people until further notice.

      greg.quinn.353 - 2012-06-24 10:43

      Well look what happened to the mines at Aurora. They turned to a pile of crap within months and left thousands unpaid and jobless. I don't see how nationalisation will be any different. The mines in SA are in the most part well run. I honestly don't see how the money will 'go back to the people' if nationalisation happens. Will taxes decrease? Will education get better? Will corruption decrease?? Will people get free diamonds?? No... I don't think so..

      janet.pretorius1 - 2012-06-25 08:52

      What about Bheki Cele to head the new nationalisation initiative???? Already pronounced incompetent to run the police force but the anc has also already stated that he will be reassigned. As with all other corrupt officials - the punishment is a transfer to a newly created position. All this while developing "strategy" to address "credibility" .......... and now this highly credible, newsworthy piece - just to put the nation at rest. What a joke. Just like the NHI and toll gates - none of this is credible with this incompetent, corrupt, greedy bunch at the helm.

  • neels.ferreira - 2012-06-23 23:59

    We need to create a self sustainable environment. Create wealth through jobs/tertiary education, and not redistribution! What will happen if you hand over land or mines today, and there is no money to manage it after a short while? Who will bail them out if rates and taxes or electricity bills or salaries at the mines, cannot be paid? The government cannot even afford more than 6.5% for their employee salaries currently - where is the money going to come from when they have to be bailed out???

      gary.wilby.18 - 2012-06-25 15:41

      Exactly Neels, profit made would be stolen and/or missapropriated leaving nothing for maintenance or re-investment even salaries (Auroa), so after a short period the mines would become unsustainable.

  • lownabester - 2012-06-24 00:00

    He told party members that they would fail the ANC if they don’t raise nationalisation in the party's upcoming policy conference" Fikile are you looking for a demotion??? Zuma will get rid of you so quickly. You are a fool just like your "brother" Malema, Both fools.

  • bongani.ngobeni.5 - 2012-06-24 00:00

    \it is like a banned term in the dictionary\why ban a word when you can ban the whole dictionary?

      boltonbarry - 2012-06-24 00:39

      What is your point

      Irene - 2012-06-24 02:18

      Who knows.

  • mkhuseli.njamela - 2012-06-24 00:10

    There nothing good about country ANC destroyed it...

  • sisa.mtwana - 2012-06-24 00:21

    http://www.marxist.com/south-africa-mines-nationalisation-debate.htm

  • Gielman - 2012-06-24 00:29

    Fikile Mbalula is a grand FOOL!!!

  • boltonbarry - 2012-06-24 00:31

    Mr Mbalula. If your ANC led government actually govern for a change there will be no need to Nationalize anything. Get rid of these incompetent fools who run our education system so that our youth can be empowered. teach a man to fish........Our Children and youth need education not gold plated empty promises

  • Thanduxolo Galada - 2012-06-24 00:42

    I'm a UCT qualified young black professional working in CPT. Business is owned by few white SA's with black as a front to have government sales, PR and marketing. In reality, this is a matter of class - one would feel at ease relating to people sharing your own class than uncertainty with another. The resentment that builds is that money moving around the few, followed by nepotism, subtle discrimination (worse than racism) and reluctance to share wealth/power outside white/black elite boys club. Nationalization not the answer but when Shoprite CEO Whitey Basson takes home R627m in 2011, no outcry! Is this not corrupt, evil?

      jack.oosthuysen - 2012-06-24 01:06

      Well at least his income is above the table. But you make a valid point, Shoprites prices are too high.

      andrew.pottow - 2012-06-24 01:14

      Its called capitalism.. As the old Polish proverb says \under capitalism man exploits man, under socialism the reverse is true\. Unfortunately the world isn't fair by nature. Once you accept that everything is a powerplay and that no one is going to give anything to you unless you fight for it and take it from someone else - you can start using it to your advantage. Carpe Diem - seize the day, take your opportunities and make the most of them! Don't sit back and wait for someone to want to share their success and wealth with you. They didn't get to the top because it was given to them. They got to the top because they worked for it! And as we know, the prospect of reward is the best motivator we know and if that reward is in the for of 600mil, so be it - as long as he performed and lead the company in a manner befitting of that pay check.

      andrew.pottow - 2012-06-24 01:23

      To give you an example of what I meant above - an associate was raised by a single mom, is bipolar and ADD and had to flee SA for fear of his life when he was 20. 7 years later he's a pound millionaire and just ordered his dream car - a Bentley. He started with nothing, taking his first job working in a restuarant as a dishwasher earning minimum wage and took his opportunities. He now owns a franchise fast food outlet and has shares in various other enterprises and is well on his way to becoming one of those elite at 27!

      harry.vermaak.3 - 2012-06-24 02:01

      These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read: 1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. 2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. 3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. 4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it! 5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

      Irene - 2012-06-24 02:29

      Harry ~ Excellent piece, but how does one go about getting this message understood when reasoning ability is zip.

      dewaldmontgomery - 2012-06-24 07:13

      By the same argument, you do realise that the overwhelming majority of taxes (which is being abused by your government), is then PAID by 'a few white SA's) also? Yebo yes. Let's see what happens when they stop paying taxes! Aaah! Now don't that feel GOOODDD!

      mikenortje - 2012-06-24 10:07

      and Patrice Motsepe sits on R23 Billion .... did he share with you?

      mikenortje - 2012-06-24 10:15

      Whitey Basson also saved 16 500 jobs and created many thousands more when he bought Checkers (which was technically bankrupt) and turned it around and made it profitable. He also bought out OK Bazaars and saved 33 252 jobs and turned them around as well ..... does he not deserve his salary?? He never stole anything .... his pay out is linked to success .... now imagine if say the Minsiter of Education's salary was linked to success??

      maseratifittipaldi - 2012-06-24 10:50

      A very good summary, and something worth remembering, harry.vermaak.

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-06-25 23:50

      That much, Thanduxolo? Wow. I hope he spreads it around some. That is a gigantic dividend/salary for one person.

  • patrick.hoppe.7543 - 2012-06-24 01:36

    The ANC will play exactly the same game as Bob Mugabe. The more they lose their grip on power, the more they will grab to give to their people to buy their votes. And they ARE losing their grip on power, with the DA making steady inroads into previously held ANC areas. Be worried people, be worried.

  • Billy - 2012-06-24 01:56

    listen, just because your neighbour buys a holiday house does not mean you can too.

  • boulvy.selala - 2012-06-24 02:05

    Going down this comments i can't help it to notice that nationalisation is not the issue here,people are just jealous especially when they feel they are the superior race and they think the black race is inferior.So they dont want to see us looking superior coz it peeves them off big time.I say forward with wealth redistribution forward...

      Nicki.Labuschagne - 2012-06-24 02:11

      What a stupid inferior comment. I doubt it very much if anyone is \jealous\ about corruption, incompetence, thieving, murdering and stupidity.

      Irene - 2012-06-24 02:35

      Boulvry ~ When you have studied for 8 years, as I have done, and are enjoying the fruits of your labour let me know what you think when some tsotsi comes along and demands what you've worked for. Get over yourself, get over your skin colour and get over your 'jealousy'.

      dewaldmontgomery - 2012-06-24 07:20

      It's not about race. It's about idiocracy. You bunch always cite the "nations where nationalisation" has worked. But you forget a few other things while doing so, e.g. that such nations have more tax payers than tax consumers; that such nations are primarily not run by uneducated peepols; that such nations usually don't have a one party state and where one party dominates, that party actually includes in its government the minorities its democracy claim to represent; etc. etc. All in all, of all of them, only ONE is in Africa, and its very same government the pathetic ANCYL wanted to 'overthrow' not too long ago? Savvy? Didn't think so. It's clearly some greedy 'leaders', and has nothing to do with the ordinary Mma and her suffering children in the township. They will benefit in exactly the same why they have benefited from things like street name changes. eYes, your Tshwane government had spent millions on street name changes, yet they claim the 'improve the lives of all' who still, after 18 years, have no decent toilets, drains, schooling, food or housing. eYes, lovely to vote ANC, yes?

      mariaan.bester.50 - 2012-06-24 11:10

      Boulvy.selala, what do you expect you are going to receive from nationalization ? It would be interesting to know what you expect to gain personally

  • Thanduxolo Galada - 2012-06-24 02:50

    Sadly injustice and unfairness falls on blind ears to our white counterparts - wrongdoing in business is treated with impunity, diverting attention to ANC only. Let me give you an example of white discrimination... My line manager (white) is not qualified (not even tertiary diploma) he got the job because of clique with director. We start as 4 interns (1 darkie) all from same institution, qualification, myself having worked extensively and with business degree undergrad. At first instance we receive equal chance to apply for a post. Suddenly 2 Peers leave admitting same director connected them to jobs. They earn X2 my salary while I continue doing their work, no assistance same pay. That is white echelon for you, who reports these abuses? We suffer as black professionals entering the passages of resentful white management determined to keep control of private sector and wealth.

      harry.vermaak.3 - 2012-06-24 03:19

      I can easely tel you ten similar stories where it is white people experiencing exactly the same problem as you describe, where they are working under unqualified black managers with no experience(thanks to AA and BEE) and that is only in my circle of friends and family. I suggests you start looking for another job. You probably have a better chance of finding a better, more fare position, unlike most of the white people stuck with no chanse for promotion, openly acknowledged by their black management.

      harry.vermaak.3 - 2012-06-24 03:45

      What I forgot to add to my pervious post, all of the ten people I previously mentioned are very grateful that they are at least still employed. Many others have lost their jobs, and are struggling to find another job, some where lucky enough to find a opportunity abroad and have left SA with no other alternative, my family at the moment are spread over 4 different country's, a very sad, difficult situations for everybody.

      fairness.iseverything - 2012-06-24 06:03

      @Thanduxolo. Please help me understand. I work for a large company, I am black. I went through the same about 6 nonths ago, except we are all black. They got the promotions becuase they know the MD, I still get the same pay and I am doing their jobs as well. Can I take their house beacause the are limiting my ecoonical freedom?

      dewaldmontgomery - 2012-06-24 07:24

      It's got nothing to do with black or white, Thanduxolo. It happens everywhere, even in lilly white Europe. Get over it.

      Nicolaas - 2012-06-25 21:19

      @Thando, you could have laid a complaint, but did you? NO, you could have taken the matter for arbritration but did you? NO, So stop playing the victim, there is means available for you to fight your case if it bears any merit. By the way, DOMBABWE degrees does not count in SA!

  • Trevor - 2012-06-24 02:56

    Suprise surprise, the X ANCYL Leader uttering the exact same words as the fired ANCYL Leader, Julius Malema...you idiots are all the same. Spend some time in China if you want to see the result of what you are preaching, utterances of dead era that even Nelson Mandela stated in the 90's, is NO LONGER RELEVANT in the current WORLD economic enviroment unless you speaking dictatorship and self enrichment of a few which has proven to be the case! Mbalula, goto Zim and Bots if you think it works so well and...stay there...take Julius but he may be busy farming cattle.....in Sandton, freaking hypocrits.

  • lerato.kay.3 - 2012-06-24 06:09

    SA is a democratic country and nationalisation should be discussed and a consensus must carry the day. Nationalisation has worked in UK, US, France to mention just a few! When these gvts nationalised banks they called it \bail out\. Another alternative is to tax these mines heavily like in Australia, foreign mines pay up to 75% tax! But guess what they are still mining. We also need laws that ban exporting ore or unprocessed minerals. Diamonds have to be cut and polished in SA!

      dewaldmontgomery - 2012-06-24 07:40

      You bunch always cite the "nations where nationalisation" has worked. But you forget a few other things while doing so, e.g. that such nations have more tax payers than tax consumers; that such nations are primarily not run by uneducated peepols; that such nations usually don't have a one party state and where one party dominates, that party actually includes in its government the minorities its democracy claim to represent; etc. etc. All in all, of all of them, only ONE is in Africa, and its very same government the pathetic ANCYL wanted to 'overthrow' not too long ago? Savvy? Didn't think so.

      lerato.kay.3 - 2012-06-24 09:36

      With all due respect to the Americans I don't see democracy in a 2 party state! Its either republicans or democrats! In SA we have democracy the fact tht the majority votes for the party you detest its your baby!

      el.torro.509 - 2012-06-24 10:00

      Firstly the nationalisation occurred in FAILED businesses to stop the entire banking sector collapsing. Secondly this nationalisation has resulted in a LOSS of jobs not a creation just look at RBS! \r\n\r\nOn the point of democracy yes there is a 2 party system in america, but in america all politics is local, as a result they do not always obey the party line and the people directly elect All of their officials - they are not given a list chosen by dictatorial leaders.\r\n\r\nThe only thing I will agree with is the export comment - we definitely need to be processing our own goods - however that needs education. I'm afraid education always comes before liberation.

      Louis - 2012-06-24 12:44

      You are obvious a moron. The Uk nationalised their motor industry so much so that if you but an Aston Martin, Jaguar, Lotus, MG, Bentley, Mini, Land Rover etc it is not British anymore. The proud new owners who actually makes it work for them are the Indians, Germans and Chinese.

      dewaldmontgomery - 2012-06-25 21:18

      You just contradicted yourself on democracy. You fail to see democracy in a two party state where people actually vote out either of the ruling parties based on performance, yet you believe SA is a democracy where the ruling party (I'm citing it's latest education disaster in Limpopo, one of its 'strongholds' and bases of 'loyalty', and also one of the 'poorest' in the country) keeps the masses uninformed and oblivious to its failures through propaganda, doing everything in its power to prevent the opposition from participating actively, overrules everything based on 'majority' view? So, if the majority of the world thinks Africa should not participate in world affairs (UN, IMF, etc.) - is that OKAY then? (Based on YOUR idea of democracy?) Absolutely not. What we have is Afrodictohyponeopcracy. Nothing more, nothing less.

  • fairness.iseverything - 2012-06-24 06:14

    There is no \Zim\ where we can hide when this fails, were will we get food, money and healthcare? Its not a matter of if, its when. Something like this can only work if managed and controlled perfectly, all we can do at the moment is arrange perfect parties and take for oursleves, it will be no diffrent to the current situation except 1000's will lose their lives due to violenece.

      dewaldmontgomery - 2012-06-24 07:41

      Which sadly mean this will cause a civil war, just as predicted in the 12th century.

  • tlamamak - 2012-06-24 06:30

    We as South Africans can't share a common ground because we are still led by greed, selfishness and envy thus we are facing a different kind of racism. We are being led astray for our lack of knowledge.We can't have peacefull debates for the good of all because our opinions are primarily rooted on skin colour regardless of the truth thereof. Let us unite and work collectively as country and we shall march on together as a unit. LET LOVE LEAD.

      ratsaka.eugene - 2012-06-24 06:54

      So true. Anyone who'll give you a thumbs down is a retard.

  • hein.helmand - 2012-06-24 06:40

    The death penalty also works in Botswana

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-06-26 00:12

      I "like" your comment a 1000 times! The difference is that they have a competent police force and judiciary - and a heck of a lot less citizens. They are also very strict on border control. My Father died in Botswana 11 June 2010, in the middle of the Kglaligadi Game Reserve. If it wasn't for the help from the local police, we would have had to bury him there. The autopsy was also quick and professional, and my brother (who travelled from Port Elizabeth to accompany my Father's body on his way home) was treated with courtesy and respect by all. Here the funeral homes were so greedy - I felt for every SA that has to fork out a year's salary to bury their loved ones.

  • super105 - 2012-06-24 06:43

    U have failed to up the standards of our public hospitals, education, sport systems, meanwhile coruption and tax is on the rise! I thought it would make perfect sense to rectify your failures before u can take on a new chalenge! Ironically bafana bafana representing 49 odd millions couldn't beat the 2 million odd boyswana nation! Mbalula the ANC veterans have left a strong legecy of success, but you greedy indivisuals are dragging everything into the mud! But wait; ANC will again produce moral, riteous, people serving leaders soon! Very soon!

      dewaldmontgomery - 2012-06-24 07:44

      Dont' stop there. They failed with Eskom, which belongs to the state. They failed with SABC, which belongs to the state. They failed with SAA, which belongs to the state. They failed with Transnet, which belongs to the state. They failed with the municipalities. They continue to focus on the 'inequality' in Cape Town, yet they conveniently forget of 8 other SA cities, controlled by the ANC, Cape Town had the LOWEST inequality of them all. Cleanest drinking water. Cleanest streets. Cleanest beaches. Cleanest sidewalks. Most working street lights. Lower crime rate. Best traffic regulation. Etc. etc. etc. Shameful, isn't it?

      Irene - 2012-06-24 14:30

      Dwaldmontgomery and super 105 ~ Have you noticed how none of the cANCer supporters are able to comment on your posts. Even though you've shown them the results of cANCer's leadership and they cannot refute it, they'll still post elsewhere of their desire for nationalisation, land grabs and economic freedom. Proof that you can take someone out the bush but there's just no educating them.

  • morama.sebata - 2012-06-24 07:06

    David Brown,CEO of implats has given Zimbwabwe 51% and clearly explained that the plan would definately benefits both Zimbwabweans and implats!!! Now because we are number 1 in platinum in the world then what makes it difficult for the same to happen here...Just asking?

      super105 - 2012-06-24 07:16

      Which zimbabweans are bennefiting from this? The rich politicians, or the poor masses, or those who fled to other neighboring countries? Do yourself favour and have a chat with a zimbabwean who has fled their country; See the pain and disapointment in their eyes when you talk about zim!

      super105 - 2012-06-24 07:34

      Fair enough, but the mines capital boost into the gov funds is not the only sorce of income for thier system! In simple words, unless you get rid of coruption and greed, change leadership / management style you are doomed for another cyle of failure!

      dewaldmontgomery - 2012-06-24 07:46

      The main difference? He GAVE it, willingly. It would have been a different story if it was TAKEN. By GIVING, he could prescribe the conditions. By TAKING, he would have had no say.

      sam.brink.92 - 2012-06-24 08:01

      Those shares are for Government, Mugabe had to do it to generate new income for the country, agriculture and well pretty much everything else disintegrated.

      norman.resado - 2012-06-24 08:33

      if the right path is taken going about the nationalisation everything will be possible.However we should be careful of those greedy and corrupt as it will fail as with the mining of diamonds in Zim's Chiadzwa area

  • Millos Mpofu - 2012-06-24 07:12

    Nationalization shall never open job opportunity lets work together and people especially my fellow blacks lets behavior and respect our elected president and lets stop tribalist .Zuma comes from the ANC and was elected by branches of the ANC to lead the ANC as well as the country

  • sizwe.bwana - 2012-06-24 07:17

    I say nationalize the banks, we pay R9000 a month for a million Rand bond and in America they pay R3000. Our bank charges are the highest in the world and our banks are the richest.q

      dewaldmontgomery - 2012-06-24 07:47

      Yes, and that's why America's economy is collapsing. And that's why Obama won't win the election again. Don't be an idiot. We all agree our banks are robbing us, but we should address that through legislation, not nationalisation. Introduce a tax on EXCESSIVE profits (not ALL profits, there's a big difference). The banks will sing a different tune.

      hannes.vanwyk.9 - 2012-06-24 07:52

      Please note it is not the bank charges that make it R9000, it is the interest rate. Which is governed by the reserve bank. A government entity. Its already nationalized my friend.

  • luzukotosh - 2012-06-24 07:18

    And give beyonce R17 million, nonsense

  • shavhanieric.netshifhefhe - 2012-06-24 07:30

    nationalize everything mines,banks,universities etc that will b perfect communism which is counterproductivity,mother of laziness

  • Franco Duma - 2012-06-24 07:38

    I am so surprisd tht some ANC members are not learning frm Zim's mistakes. They talk abt land seizures, nationalisation when millions of Zimbos are right here in SA as a result of those policies.

      dewaldmontgomery - 2012-06-24 07:49

      They know it, very well. Which is why the ANC is in the state it is. You simply can't have capitalists, communists and socialists in one party. It won't work. It's like marrying a person that speaks another language all together while you can't speak that language and you don't have a common language between the two of you. Your marriage will fail.

      tnmunyai - 2012-06-24 09:05

      The situation in zim is not the same with the south africa situation. The problem that made zim to be what it is today is not becs of land reform or mine nationalisation. It is becs of sunction that have been imposed by USA, EU and IMF. If it was not that, zim would be more far economically. Give zim a time to reform their economy themself, you will see the results of being economical indipendent and you will give them a bells.

  • fezile.somraba - 2012-06-24 07:38

    it is true comrade mbaks that economic freedom 2 be specific nationalisation is the way 2 go.ppl r so allergic 2 these issues,we need 2 remind them abt freedom chatter this is not something new.it is there in the freedom chatter.it is just that it is a high time now for the implementation of the freedom chatter.even the so called the venn guards of the poor of the poorest some don't want 2 buy the idea bcz they want 2 protect a home boy(zuma).the likes of s'dumo dlamini, nathi mthethwa we need 2 expose these individuals who r within our liberation movement as well as those who r in our alliance partners.anyone who is against this idea of nationalisation is not different 2 the person who is supporting Democratic alliance (DA).we don't need such ppl in our movement,they r selling this revolution 2 the capitalists

      matsepe2 - 2012-06-24 07:50

      Its a fact Fezile some of our comrades are\r\nSelling our movement, we shld consider \r\nBringing Malema back I thnk he has grown now\r\nFikile Mbalula for General Secretory *Asijiki*

      dewaldmontgomery - 2012-06-24 07:52

      You're crazy. The DA is PRO-BUSINESS (which some translate as 'pro-capital'). By being pro-business and introducing more flexible labour laws, changing the requirement to FORCE people to employe AA en BEE into a tax credit for businesses that uplift communities and create jobs, is exactly the solution we need. I would employ at least 20 blacks if I had the guarantee they can't make unfair demands and can't run to the union for things like being late, drunk, or not doing their job properly. But sadly, I can't, so therefore the ANC is hampering job creation, not promoting it. Nationalisation won't solve a thing.

      Keith - 2012-06-24 07:53

      fezile, I am not sure whether you are taking the mickey out of us. If your ideas are as good as your spelling you might make a different point by brushing up on both.

      dewaldmontgomery - 2012-06-24 07:54

      O yes, and you do know, that proportionally to demographics, Cape Town (which is run by the DA), has created more jobs and improved more 'black' lives in its short term of governance than the ANC in its stronghold provinces in 18 years? eYes, it hurts, I know.

  • luvo.luvos - 2012-06-24 07:45

    One point I agree with is that economical liberation is essential for black people before we can say freedom has been achieved. Whichever way you look at it, SA's economy remains white based and black people are just mere participants in a world that doesn't really wish them in.

      Keith - 2012-06-24 07:56

      Does the ANC want economic freedom for its supporters? With economic freedom, presumably wealth, comes a change in attitude and therefore possibly a change in support for the ANC.

      el.torro.509 - 2012-06-24 09:44

      Firstly there is no such thing as economic freedom - we are all slaves to the economy in some form. Secondly the basis for meaningful participation in an economy, which I believe is what you are trying to get at, is through education - which I'm afraid the government cares little for. Rather focus your attention there than on failed policies of failed economic regimes.

      Zahir - 2012-06-24 12:13

      The anc govt takes over R900 Billion in taxes mostly from these white co's so how is the money spend it disappears to the anc cadres

  • billidp - 2012-06-24 07:47

    And nationalisation has NOT worked in many, many more countries. Nationalise the mines and the banks and it will be the end of SA!!!

  • matsepe2 - 2012-06-24 07:55

    Fikile Mbalula as General Secretory of the ANC,Galema Motlanthe the President of the ANC *Asijiki*\r\nNationalisation is the wy to go.

  • Muffin_man_can - 2012-06-24 08:04

    When the anc came into power, they changed a perfectly operating education system into something that is now a joke. By changing the fine balance that existst in our current econonomy through nationalisation of mines they will mess it up aswell. Why tamper with something that works? The problem is those that are shouting nationalize are thinking with their hearts instead of their brain.

      Muffin_man_can - 2012-06-24 08:34

      Manners seem to not have been part of your education idiot. Here's a thought for you: Bantu education was better than the current education, at least the learners got their books in time and teachers didn't strike every year. The black proffesionals you are talking about are those that went to a private school (white administration), studied abroad or was just plain simply favored through the racially discriminating process of BEE. The anc should promote creating business instead of stealing from existing successfull businesses such as mining groups.

      ratsaka.eugene - 2012-06-24 09:04

      BakesManCan, if you don't have anything to say, shut up, pleaaaase. Did you know that the area I come from, shools were built by the communities, the school I attended, families had to fork out money to build it. Because your government did not see it fit to build a school for us. We forked out money to build at least three blocks, for primary and two block for secondary. You can lie to those stupid coconuts you live with in sandton my friend but some of us know where we come from. You government build a school after every ten villages. Find out who build most schools in the Blouberg Municipality in Limpopo, goverment or community. Google it.

      el.torro.509 - 2012-06-24 09:41

      At the end of the day gentlemen the ANC has failed on education. Yes bantu education was a joke, but I think what muffin man is trying to get at is the government should have used these pockets of excellence (prev white schools) and used the expertise to help the new schools rather than change everything. And nationalisation is purely about heart.. Esp the land - agriculture is 2 percent of gdp, what we have is an emotional attachment to the land - well every other country in the world the majority of the people have urbanised due to changin economies, SA is no different - forget the land and rather develop industry and value add to the natural resources. And no I don't own a mine or a farm neither am I economically free - everyone is a slave to the economy whether you believe it or not!

  • ratsaka.eugene - 2012-06-24 08:11

    Reading the comment that follow this story, I've realised just how stupid most of my fellow countrymen and women are. That is not only the problem. I worry more about the next generation. I'd say most you that commented here have at least a post matric qualification of some sort, but education did not do your brains any good. You still call people names, like Zimbos and uneducated, (I know some of you when you are alone with your children you teach them that that race is uneducated and they are called 'huotkops'). I have a son and I'm gonna teach him love. He'll grow colour blind, just seeing an indian boy as my buddy with a different complexion, or a white boy as just my buddy with a brighter complexion. To choose friends carefully, u know, make sure he doesn't mix up with your contaminated children. You make me sick.

      goodman.segage - 2012-06-24 08:21

      Well said brother, this forum such brain! Tanx n supported

      goodman.segage - 2012-06-24 08:35

      I suggest we all vote for this concept(Nationalisation). People should nt drive our minds like running water. They ought to engage with us the public and check if we all want Nationalisation. It cannot be allowed to meet few individuals.

  • duma.nkabinde - 2012-06-24 08:11

    On March 17 1992, white South africans had a referendum, whereby they asked if they supported the new reform process through negotiations. I suggest we need a referendum on land reform and nationalization, a simple yes or no vote will do.

      el.torro.509 - 2012-06-24 09:33

      Land reform isn't going to make lots of people rich. Agriculture accounts for 2 percent of the gdp. What the land debate is about is an emotional attachment to the land. In most modern economies the majority of the people have been driven off the land in all countries and urbanisation has occurred. Rather focus on educating our people to manufacture and add value to the minerals and products we make.

      duma.nkabinde - 2012-06-24 10:48

      Referendum YES or NO ???

      el.torro.509 - 2012-06-24 13:43

      You can't have a referendum until the people properly understand the consequences and the fact that 3 percent of the gdp is not going to help a country where 60 percent are urban dwellers! Not to mention that there are international stakeholders including the chinese who own mines and banks here and are our major trading partner. We are already a net importer of food. So no given the fact that the majority of the population have absolutely no education and no economic training a referendum would be a stupid idea. That is why you are supposed to elect people with the expertise to do direct policy.

      Irene - 2012-06-24 14:38

      el.torro ~ Exactly! Bit pointless having a referendum when people don't understand the consequences. That's obviously why they keep voting cANCer yet protest the next day. Unbelievable!

      duma.nkabinde - 2012-06-24 16:07

      And by people you black people, so I for one have embarked on that journey and trust me the people are not clueless at all. Now in this beautiful country of ours has had 3 referendums thus far and if our white counterparts felt it was fine to take that route, in order for us to live in a democratic country then I suppose we can take that route once more. In fact we are in a unique position to have a bloodless REVOLUTION= rapid change- to stem out the inequalities that these Chinese you speak of have been able to perpetuate to great lengths. Mzansi needs a referendum.mayibuye i-Africa

  • busane.khasibe - 2012-06-24 08:11

    SG mbalula you are very clear my leader.. We want Economic freedom in our life time..... Via asijiki

      el.torro.509 - 2012-06-24 09:28

      Nobody is economically free! It can't exist we are all slaves to the economy in some form or other.

      sisa.mtwana - 2012-06-24 11:08

      This one is for all of us Black and White .

      Zahir - 2012-06-24 12:03

      I don't see how anc is going to share mine profits with 50million people I do see more billionares like tokyo and motsepe coming out of anc govt

  • atisang.mosepelovic - 2012-06-24 08:12

    Nationalisation = no pressure to perform aswell as with the amount of corruption goin on now only god knows how much more corruption will go on resulting in the masses being in a worse situation u don't have to look far look @ zim

  • pistonpete.outriders - 2012-06-24 08:24

    Read...nationalise mines...ride them into the ground...get gov bailouts....blame something/someone else. The end.

  • Rational100 - 2012-06-24 08:26

    Good people ..Nationalisation comes in various forms and notions. E.g Almost all national roads are nationalized and it's good.....if u privatize them u get e-tolling which is bad. The Reserve bank is nationalized and if u were to privatize it, it wud be bad for the majority of money users. Nationalisation of mines is also good as long as u ensure that the product coming out is sold for the benefit of nation. As is now, mines are owned by foreigners and they repartriate both minerals and the revenues derived from the mines ...which is bad. The degree and extent of Nationalisation is therefore the issue that must be debated to avoid a situation whereby it becomes a gravy train for a few.

      duma.nkabinde - 2012-06-24 08:38

      I agree 100%.

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-06-26 00:22

      Well said! But do the people calling for Nationalisation understand this?

  • Sean Wasserman - 2012-06-24 08:29

    The government will not add any value to the mine by owning part of it. On the contrary, it is more likely that the mine management will not have any motivation to perform (they will still take their bonuses) and the mine performance will be average at best. It would makes more sense for the employees (black and white) to hold a share in the mine. A profitable mine means more tax for the government.

      ratsaka.eugene - 2012-06-24 09:19

      I think you must be the president of this country, you are such a thinker. That worked for Massmart, they are now one of the biggest companies in South Africa. I just hope someone with half your brain can chair such a policy talk if it's gonna happen. I haven't seen such a smart comment on News24 ever, and you are white, such a pitty. I wish you were black. Lol

  • raymond.abrahamse - 2012-06-24 08:32

    What is Economic Freedom? Does it mean that you don't have to study and you don't have to work for anything,and you are entitled to get everything free-don't pay anything.South Africa is the only country in the World that implements rules to protect the majority against the minority.And the only country where babies are raped.What a sic stupid lot of incompetent beast like people.

      Muffin_man_can - 2012-06-24 08:38

      A very good question Raymond! In that case nobody is economically free. Even if it means having enough money to do what you want whenever you want, there are few that have that luxury.

      bernard.bracka - 2012-06-24 09:05

      Something you won't understand as long as you living in an inherited posh life. Ask the man from diepsloot what it mean for him and his family to get three meals a day then you'll understand.

      Tiaan Liebenberg - 2012-06-24 09:17

      Bracka - That is NOT anyone else but the ANC's fault. 20 years on and they are still as incompetent as ever in addressing the needs of the majority they supposedly serve. Nationalisation is not a golden ticket for the masses!!!

  • goodman.segage - 2012-06-24 08:40

    Let's debate it. Nationalisation debate is opne. Plse forum members don't personalize your opinion when raising your views. I suggest we all vote for this concept(Nationalisation). People should nt drive our minds like running water. They ought to engage with us the public and check if we all want Nationalisation. It cannot be allowed to meet few individuals

      duma.nkabinde - 2012-06-24 09:49

      We need a referendum, a simple yes or no vote!

      Clayton Richard Delport - 2012-06-24 10:20

      It won't happen, ignorant uneducated fools like yourselves would drive this country into the ground...

      goodman.segage - 2012-06-24 17:22

      @Clayton Richard Delport, you are missing a mark friend. We should finding solution, not to your disgusting labeling. @Nkabinde, I take that as solution. Then we should have some body to mobilise that idea. Supported!

  • phumlani.veliti - 2012-06-24 08:44

    Fikile Mbalula im sure you will defenately benifit from it but what about ordinary citizens? what will they benefit? and when.\r\n\r\nYou all BLAAAABING about nationalisation and land expropriation.Will the country(black community) have relevant skills to manage those resources.\r\n\r\nAt least a 20year Formulated plan is a necessity if you guys(ellits, gov officials, secreate societies) want to proceed with it.

  • bernard.bracka - 2012-06-24 08:45

    People dont understand the word nationalisation...there's bad type of it like in zim and here at home where companies are forced to surrender stakes to bee political cronies free of charge not for the benefit of masses and there's a positive form of it like in botswana where government bought a 50% stake in de beers' debtswana diamond venture or the communist uncompetitive local is lekker china style mining industry. It all depends on what option of it ANC chooses...more money for political cronies or more money for treasury.

      Sean Wasserman - 2012-06-24 08:52

      Communism failed

      busisiwe.kubeka1 - 2012-06-24 09:00

      Tell your whites counterparts in usa n europe to remove sanctions they imposed in Zim,infact the whole Africa from Cape to Cairo should go Zim way n take back land n economy to empower its citizens

      busisiwe.kubeka1 - 2012-06-24 09:00

      Tell your whites counterparts in usa n europe to remove sanctions they imposed in Zim,infact the whole Africa from Cape to Cairo should go Zim way n take back land n economy to empower its citizens

      busisiwe.kubeka1 - 2012-06-24 09:00

      Tell your whites counterparts in usa n europe to remove sanctions they imposed in Zim,infact the whole Africa from Cape to Cairo should go Zim way n take back land n economy to empower its citizens

      busisiwe.kubeka1 - 2012-06-24 09:00

      Tell your whites counterparts in usa n europe to remove sanctions they imposed in Zim,infact the whole Africa from Cape to Cairo should go Zim way n take back land n economy to empower its citizens

      busisiwe.kubeka1 - 2012-06-24 09:00

      Tell your whites counterparts in usa n europe to remove sanctions they imposed in Zim,infact the whole Africa from Cape to Cairo should go Zim way n take back land n economy to empower its citizens

      Clayton Richard Delport - 2012-06-24 10:18

      Those are the same white counterparts who put sanctions on south Africa in apartheid to help you.... This is why you won't be anything else than a garden boy.... You have no clue how things work and your mentality is of a child

      Rational100 - 2012-06-25 12:42

      People forget that Capitalism has also failed a number of times. The current global crisis is a failure of Capitalism and when Governments rescue banks thru quantitative easing or whatever, THAT IS NATIONALISATION! ... whichever way u look at it! So, let's stop playing philosophical games and address economic and socio-political problems as they are instead of this historic bickering.