News24

Minister unfazed by criticism over Israel

2012-08-17 22:16

Pretoria - Israel should cease the displacement of Palestinians and its occupation of their territory, Deputy International Relations Minister Ebrahim Ebrahim said on Friday.

Ebrahim said criticism on his discouraging of South Africans to travel to Israel was missing the point.

"We do not encourage people to go to Israel because we think the whole question of Palestine and Israel has to be looked in the context of what is taking place in Palestine," he said.

Palestinians were increasingly suffering as a result of Israel's occupation of their land and the matter had to be urgently resolved, said Ebrahim.

"Most of the criticism does not seem to address the main issue here. The main issue here is not whether you go to Israel or not. The issue is 'are there any steps taken by these people to stop the increasing settlement'," he said.

"There has to be a move to address the suffering of the Palestinian people. The daily humiliation of Palestinians is a cause for concern."

Ebrahim said government was not discontinuing the travel of South Africans to Israel.

"It's a Constitutional right of every South African to go wherever they want to. It is also a Constitutional right of every South African to have a passport," he said.

Ebrahim was addressing reporters on the sidelines of the second meeting of the Vietnam-South Africa Partnership Forum held in Pretoria.

After engaging the Vietnamese delegation led by Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister Le Luong Minh, Ebrahim said both countries had expressed deep concern over the ongoing illegal hunting and trafficking of wildlife products, particularly rhino horn.

"The two sides agreed to work closely together, through bilateral and multi-lateral mechanisms, to address concerns in this area to protect these endangered species," he told reporters in Pretoria.

A memorandum of understanding in the fields of bio-diversity management and law enforcement had been agreed upon, said Ebrahim.

The agreement sought compliance with the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) and other legislation.

The pact would now be tested in the legal processes of both countries before being signed.

Minh said his country was intensely concerned about the widespread poaching problem.

"We discussed and shared the concerns over the illegal hunting, trade, and trafficking of wildlife," said Minh.

Media reports cited the "obsession" with rhino horn products in Vietnam as a serious threat to the world's rhino population.

Rhino horn products are perceived to have curative powers for an assortment of ailments, from headaches to cancer.

Comments
  • www.hephzibah.wapsite.me - 2012-08-17 23:10

    Ebrahim is a typical muslim.Taking out his own personal religious feelings to incite hatred against Israel. The usual propaganda rubbish.Sis on you!

      zaid.personal - 2012-08-18 07:07

      Yawn...another ill informed victim. So is Kasrels also against the Israeli policies because of his race? And go do your homework. Ebrahim is not a typical Muslim. In fact, I'm pretty certain that you are ignorant of what a typical Muslim is because you appear to be educated by the main stream media. How sad.

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-08-18 07:46

      Typical ignorant racist you are. This happens to be ANC policy.

      parys.fotograaf - 2012-08-18 08:22

      Funny how silent he is about the muslims in Nigeria killing Christians, or about the North Sudanese muslim who are killing and occupying south (Christian Sudan) land ....it is religious whether he admits it or not.

      jason.faraday.3 - 2012-08-18 09:39

      There is nothing religious about Ebrahim's post; he hardly mentioned religion. You are creating a strawman to deflect away from the historical and political facts. If you don't agree, provide me with a link to a forum where we can discuss this.

      boaz.yarmarkov - 2012-08-18 23:46

      The world is a fickel place, Anti-Semitism hasn't gone away; it's merely morphed into hatred of Israel. The Jews will never be "loved". The world will love the Jews greatly were they to roll over and die, and that is not going to happen. I'm with Machiavelli - it is far, far better to be feared than to be loved. When the Palestinians choose peace they will get peace, but until such a time they must sleep in the bed they make. Their charter (Hamas) still calls for the destruction of Israel; Google it if you dont beive me - I don’t see why Israel should respond with handing over any land to them... it’s like giving your murderer a gun in order to be polite. I do hope the Palestinians change their ways... there has been enough death. Israel will keep waiting until the Palestinians get rid of their corrupt and fanatic leadership and vote in one that wants peace. Israel wants peace. always have always will.

  • 19SideWaysView - 2012-08-17 23:11

    If this half wit has any credibilty he needs to make the same statement with respect to human rights violations in Zimbabwe, Syria, Iran and North Korea. Is there a selective morality when it comes to human rights?

      jason.faraday.3 - 2012-08-18 09:45

      Why should he? Why can he not exercise his democratic right to choose which country to villify which violates international law? Or can't you respond to his claims and need this deflection?

      zaid.personal - 2012-08-18 12:17

      Thank you Jason. Refreshing to see someone else on here that has a clear head, rather than racial and religious biases that supposedly inform their world views.

      19SideWaysView - 2012-08-18 20:44

      No Jason - while I will concede that Israel has certainly committed human rights violations wrt the Palestinians, I still make the point that the present S.A. government continues to remain silent when it choses. Why do they selectively make these comments? I see that the U.N. resolutions have been quoted in this thread to substantiate the claims made by the anti Israeli lobby - yet SA choses to ignore the resoltions made by the UN with respect to Omar al Bashir of Sudan (crimes against humanity) and treats the ruthless dictator Teodora Obiang of Equatorial Guinea as an honourable head of state - in spite of the fact that both these individuals came into power via coups and have no semblence of democtratic rule in their respective countries. I ask the question again - how can this country appear to adopt principals of selective morality?

  • fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-17 23:15

    Sad that South Africa has sunk so low on the international character index. Disappointing that our own ministerial official is uneducated about the real history in this matter, and is unwittingly falling for the manipukatiobs of the unelected dictators in the region, who are being deposed by their own people one by one. This is the same government that licensed MTN, which does business with two highly repressive, illegitimate regimes in the world. The same government that didn't have the moral compass to grant the Dalai Llama a visa. Deeply disappointing.

      Desilusionada - 2012-08-17 23:47

      "We do not encourage people to go to Israel because we think the whole question of Palestine and Israel has to be looked in the context of what is taking place in Palestine," he said. The other day he said it was everyone's own choice to go there or not. Can't even make up his own mind.... Wait a bit Fred and you will see how low they still will go

      ari.potah - 2012-08-18 08:20

      Fred - Another hasbara troll paid for by Israel. Tell me, Sir, do you know the "real history" of the area? Or are you just parroting what your masters tell you to say?

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 08:27

      Sadly Ari is not used to freedom of expression. He automatically assumes people are paid to express their minds.

      Desilusionada - 2012-08-18 10:08

      Ah Fred I now understand. Ari read a book published in 2008, called 'The Invention of the Jewish People". Based on this he now is an expert on the history of Israel, and therefore can parrot, not from a master like he alleges you do, but from a piece of drivel paid to be written by some anti-Semite. Freedom of speech does not enter into it as fundamentalist minded persons will will always, and stubbornly, cling to their erroneous self beliefs.

  • walter.lebza - 2012-08-17 23:36

    You should have seen the smiles on the faces of vitnamese officials When they mentioned rhino horns.

  • irene.buthelezi.1 - 2012-08-17 23:44

    I'll travel to Israel, not because I want to, but simply because this ignoramus has told me not to. Who does he think he is? Not all of us are sheeple.

  • mohamed.ismail.338863 - 2012-08-18 00:06

    To all who seem to think that Mr Ebrahim is wrong.. Please visit the UN list of Resolutions against Israel.. then talk.. To clarify his statement.. he said that everyone has a right to go where they want.. so please visit israel if you wish.. Israel has commited Major Crimes against Palestinians.. and that is a fact that even dead people know.. If anything... is worth my two cents.. then please ask your self why is it that Israel continues its settlement activities despite UN resolutions against such land theft..May peace be upon all who follow the guidance.\r\n\r\nSalute Mr Ebrahim... Remain Firm.. To all that support Israeli crimes for they are open supporters of an Apartheid regime.. an in South Africa if you support apartheid.. you aint fit to be here..

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 02:36

      How and when was the land stolen?

      jason.faraday.3 - 2012-08-18 09:49

      @mundu.olewega How many Jews were there in Palestine in the 1860s? I can tell you - 10 000. How many Muslims were there in Palestine in the 1860s? 140 000. So what is this nonsense about Palestine/Israel belonging to the Jews. They stoped being a majority in the 2nd century AD. Do you advocate turning back the sovereignty clocks all over the world back to 2 AD? If so, the San people will be VERY happy.

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-08-18 09:53

      Israel rightfully occupies the West Bank in terms of the Laws Of War, since it conquered this territory in the 1967 war not of its making. it is up to the Palestinians to accept the terms of peace made by Israel, if they want their land back and their own state. UN resolutions were passed by the overwhelming voting bloc of Muslim, communist and fawning Third World countries, the majority of which are undemocratic governments enjoying the democratic character of the UN. No sanctions, economic or otherwise has been imposed by any UN country because of the legality of the occupation by Israel.

      cameronrh1 - 2012-08-18 12:02

      @mohamed. A predominantely Arab UN assembley condemning Israel for everything, no wonder most resolutions past are against Israel. Yet no resolutions are being past against their own countries, or any other human right violating regime. Because that would be counterproductive towards the Palestinian libel.

  • Ken - 2012-08-18 00:37

    We boycott all goods from Israel and the occupied Territories. The west like to enforce UN resolutions against such as Iran, north Korea, but NEVER against a Terrorist state as IsraEl.

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 02:32

      Who's we?

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 02:33

      Not the 100 million Muslims, the new generation, who have just freed themselves from the lies you're still falling for. Get with it. You're falling behind.

      iceman196 - 2012-08-18 03:00

      you, not we, dont dictate to me ok, you and the anc dont tell me what to do

      noesfa.isaacs - 2012-08-18 06:08

      well said...israel should remove themselves from the land they have stolen and end the suffering of the Palestinians insha-Allah it will happen..it is inevitable

      zaid.personal - 2012-08-18 07:11

      Fred, it's actually 1.6 BILLION MUSLIMS. Like so many commentators on this article, it seems you're out of touch with reality. That tends to happen when you receive an education at the hands of main stream media.

      iceman196 - 2012-08-18 08:19

      @ISAACS, SURE IT WILL, AS SOON AS YOU WAKE UP FROM YOUR WET DREAM, TIT

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 08:23

      Zaid, I suggest that you reread my post.

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 08:23

      Israel was created in 1948 from 52% of the land formerly occupied by the Jewish and Palestinian people, and Palestine 43%. Most of the Israeli territory was the Negev Desert. Jerusalem fell into neither territory. Palestinians with their unelected, self-serving neighbors declared war on Israel the very next day. In the 1960's they even invaded Israel twice. Full military invasions. The result: Israel survived and pushed them back, gaining territory in the process. This is the origin of what you wrongly call "stealing land". There have been almost daily attacks by Palestinians, incited by their self-serving unelected backers. Palestinians even teach their children at Kindergarten to attack Israel, rather than be peaceful. Children. Kindergarten. From day one, and even today it's wage war on Israel. Israel defends herself. Yes sometimes going too far, which is unacceptable, but self-defense nonetheless. All that needs to happen is for Palestinians to choose peace side by side with Israel. This is more likely going forward now because the unelected dictators are being removed from power by their people one by one. They will no longer use the Palestinians for their own internal political ploys.

      jason.faraday.3 - 2012-08-18 09:54

      @Fred Fraser When did the Palestinians and their neighbours invade Israel (twice) in the 1960s? You appear to be a slave to Zionist Myths. Please supply a link to a debating forum of your choice and we can continue this there.

      jaba.kov - 2012-08-18 23:04

      The Muslims aren't happy! They're not happy in Gaza. They're not happy in Egypt. They're not happy in Libya. They're not happy in Morocco. They're not happy in Iran. They're not happy in Iraq. They're not happy in Yemen. They're not happy in Afghanistan. They're not happy in Pakistan. They're not happy in Syria. They're not happy in Lebanon. And where are they happy? They're happy in England. They're happy in France. They're happy in Italy. They're happy in Germany. They're happy in Sweden. They're happy in the USA. They're happy in India.They're happy in Norway. They're happy in every country that is not Muslim. And who do they blame? Not their leadership. Not themselves. THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!

  • Rashida Patel - 2012-08-18 00:38

    Well done ,minister ebrahim. About time south africa spoke clearly on the illegally occupied palestine issue. All those who don't like it ,are probably defenders of aparthied

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 02:31

      Rashida have you done anything yet about the hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims being killed or maimed by the Jihadists and unelected dictators in your midst? 100 million Muslims of the Middle East have freed themselves from such. Are you, or are you still blinding yourself with the obvious manipulative lies that were being told by these dictators. It's the very lies Muslims of the Middle East have seen through. You're being slow in your evolution, behind the curve. You should get with it, step up. Women especially, and children are being slaughtered right now. And no, not by Israel. That's the lie.

      iceman196 - 2012-08-18 03:02

      how about the simple people in pakistan and iraq etc who get killed by suicide bombers, not a peep there hey, damn you lot are slow

      zaid.personal - 2012-08-18 07:13

      @fred...get your facts straight and stop assuming to be an authority on the matter. And please don't contaminate this discussion with issues that are entirely irrelevant and unrelated.

      lotus.river.5 - 2012-08-18 08:05

      So because people are dying from their own kind its ok to take over their land illegaly?israel is in existence after colonial palestine under british rule signed over land for them,now when palestine is free,the israelites are still occupying this land and taking over more.face that problem and stop hiding behind jihadist muslims and all.

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 08:24

      Zaid, what facts are you speaking of? The one's you misread in my last post?

      wally.williams.148 - 2012-08-18 08:56

      Why are issues said to be irrelevant when they are relevant, Zaid and others? Why are the true facts not placed on the table? Why are you silent beyond belief over issues that are so atrocious in the spirit of human rights, and have been for centuries? No, Rashida, you miss the point completely and utterly...apartheid? Plz, find some other argument. Apartheid has nothing to do with this. I do not support apartheid and will not. My eyes are not closed though to the truth. I am not brainwashed and a Jewish hater by birth. Why are Shi'ite muslims pulled from a bus and killed on the spot and you are quiet with your dear minister? Why are you silent about Palestinians crossing into Israel an killing Jews and Jewish soldiers on patrol only to run back into their own territory and dragging the bodies with them? Do you believe those are the kind of ppl you would want in your territory? But then again, our govt are friends with countries with no respect for human rights, no, for humans full stop and yet they want to profess and prescribe to others wearing blinkers.

      zaid.personal - 2012-08-18 12:22

      @Wally...I'm confused. You would know that I am silent on other atrocities around the world because...? You engaged with me on those issues at some point? No. You asked me about it? No. You're clutching at straws to establish some legitimacy to your jaundiced view of the Middle East? Yes. Let's focus on the issue at hand, shall we?

      jaba.kov - 2012-08-18 22:45

      Having experienced first-hand the debilitating effects of the criminal society of apartheid and having lived in Israel in the past, I must unfortunately conclude that Rashida is either hopelessly misinformed or deeply deluded because self defence is not a crime. Rashida do some research; it will open your eyes and help you realize that you also have been duped by the fifth column and its twisted propaganda machine against Israel. Israel is a wonderful place that strives for peace, however, peace can only be achieved when the Palestinians renounce terror against Israel and vote to live in peace with Israel - for some unknown reason, their leaders (Hamas/PA) refuse to choose the path of peace – Google their Charter and see how their religion will not allow them to have peace with us ‘Infidels’. We will keep waiting for them to choose peace with us, if we have to, we will wait forever…

  • JohncarlosBiza - 2012-08-18 03:02

    I will visit Israel. The girls are hot there (pun unintentional)

  • louwc - 2012-08-18 03:58

    Dear Minister - fix our country, then comment on others...

  • muazzam.jasper - 2012-08-18 04:07

    http://www.chrishorner.net/2010/02/18/israel-palestine-the-israeli-occupation/

      jaba.kov - 2012-08-18 23:06

      Fact is the indigenous people of the land were Jews around 2000 years before Islam was created

  • michael.taylorw - 2012-08-18 04:34

    And SA should cease the displacement of whites to counties who accept you no matter what colour you are. Latest example, SAA. What a bunch of hypocrites. And since when does our country have such a strong muslim influence? And why does our govt not mention anything about the genocide of white farmers, or of the genocide throughout Africa? Why is the efforts of our govt so misplaced?

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 08:25

      Rid, Jewish people played equally important roles in the overthrowing of Apartheid.

      RID1LAHER - 2012-08-18 09:58

      Mr Fraser if u claim such why did SA board of Deputies release an apology late last year for its not playing a part against apartheid! They worked happily with the apartheid government! Look @ this link: http://m.forward.com/articles/143231/south-african-jews-struggle-with-legacy-of-aparthe

  • beryl.knipe - 2012-08-18 05:46

    Ebrahim Ebrahim is, probably a Muslim and his vicious diatribe is then, understandable. Deputy International Relations Minister my foot! Minister, YOU, Sir, CANNOT and WILL NOT - EVER fix the Israeli/Palestine conflict so have another cup of whatever you drink and move along!!!

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-08-18 07:39

      What's the point of picking on muslims. Let's not show racist tendencies here. Don't you understand that this is ANC policy?

      cameronrh1 - 2012-08-18 12:10

      @vernon its ANC policy because of hate indoctrinated fools like Ebrahim, and sponsored Arab nations who influence our foreign policy. Take for example the visit of the Dalai Lama, he was not allowed into SA because of our pupper masters in China, and the real occupation of Tibetans by the chinese governemnt. Yet we never hear anyone condemning them.

  • mkyounus - 2012-08-18 05:46

    well done mr ebrahim,this apartheid israel has to be brought to justice for the warcrimes they have comitted,and stolen land from the palestinian people with the help of the jewnited states of america offcourse!

      Gcodi Mahomed - 2012-08-18 06:52

      the downward spiral of israel has gained momentum since the first intifada ,the zionist including the ones that post here have realized this,so they comments are futile,to the zionist the end is near

      Gcodi Mahomed - 2012-08-18 06:52

      the downward spiral of israel has gained momentum since the first intifada ,the zionist including the ones that post here have realized this,so they comments are futile,to the zionist the end is near

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 08:28

      Israel was created in 1948 from 52% of the land formerly occupied by the Jewish and Palestinian people, and Palestine 43%. Most of the Israeli territory was the Negev Desert. Jerusalem fell into neither territory. Palestinians with their unelected, self-serving neighbors declared war on Israel the very next day. In the 1960's they even invaded Israel twice. Full military invasions. The result: Israel survived and pushed them back, gaining territory in the process. This is the origin of what you wrongly call "stealing land". There have been almost daily attacks by Palestinians, incited by their self-serving unelected backers. Palestinians even teach their children at Kindergarten to attack Israel, rather than be peaceful. Children. Kindergarten. From day one, and even today it's wage war on Israel. Israel defends herself. Yes sometimes going too far, which is unacceptable, but self-defense nonetheless. All that needs to happen is for Palestinians to choose peace side by side with Israel. This is more likely going forward now because the unelected dictators are being removed from power by their people one by one. They will no longer use the Palestinians for their own internal political ploys.

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 08:29

      Shockingly racist to boot.

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-08-18 10:02

      Israel is stronger than ever, and will continue to grow stronger, while the Arab and Muslim world becomes weaker and more ineffective by the day. 6 million versus 500 million in the Middle East and nothing can break Israel. I understand your humiliation but you brought this upon yourselves. Now you express this humiliation as hatred, and nothing good can come of it for the Muslim world. To hate is to fail.

      peter.stedman.16 - 2012-08-18 13:34

      @ Larry Tell Lehi, the Irgun, the Stern gang and the other Zionist terrorists that hate is unjustified. Tell the Palestinians that the death toll from Operation Cast Lead was 1400+ Palestinians and 3 Israelis, so their hatred is unjustified. Tell Hezbollah that the slaughter of 20 000+ Lebanese gives them no right to hate the Israelis. Tell the 750 000 Palestinians who were depopulated from their settlements that they should thank Bibi and his mates. Tell the families of the 3500 Palestinians massacred by Sharon's instigation at Sabra and Shatila that that is no reason for hate. You are joking, aren't you, Larry? Please tell me you cannot expect us to believe you.

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-08-18 16:34

      Is that all? Irgun and Stern gangs are over sixty years ago. Your figure of 750 thousand is overinflated - estimated at less than 300 thousand Arabs displaced. It is important also to acknowledge that very few of these 300 thousand even saw a Jewish policeman, and were asked to depopulate the region by the leaders of the Arab nations ammassing to attack Israel. When Israel consolidated and secured its borders, absent Arabs (were not known as Palestinians at that stage) were excluded as Israeli citizens. Those that stayed are now very pleased with their full and democratic Israeli citizens. You can row yourself down that river you are crying.

      jason.faraday.3 - 2012-08-18 17:48

      Oh Larry, Larry!! Yet another Zionist Myth. The CIA and BBC monitoring of radio broadcasts at the time (see Eskine Childers' and Khalil's correspondence in The Spectator - 1961) in fact show that the Arab leadership exhorted their followers to stay in their homes!! Would you like to challenge that? If not, please can that stale old Myth.

      jaba.kov - 2012-08-18 23:10

      IN ISRAEL, all civilians Muslims, Jews & Christians alike, A. Have equal rights. B. If you are gay you are a protected minority. C. freedom of speech D. Freedom of protests. E. Free press. F. Freedom of religion. G. Woman have equal rights and can vote, work and study. H. DEMOCRACY - All citizens vote! FACT I. No racist distinction between Shiite Sunni or Druze J. A justice system that is above even the prime minister K. Both Arab and Jewish representatives in their Knesset parliament.... L. any Muslim, Jew or Christian can live anywhere they want in Israel Etc. Etc. Etc. so, sorry no Appartheid in Israel, just a democracey under daily threat. Name 1 country in the middle east that treats its inhabitants that way. Visit Israel and see for yourself why the Israeli Arabs are so grateful to be Israeli citizens.

  • dean.ramjoomia - 2012-08-18 06:20

    Fools die for want of Wisdom!! U long gone Ebrahim sorry brO go and make u ramadaan speeches at mosque u a moderate Muslim who seek to pacify majority extremist in islam go eat a Samoesa en vat a slaap.

  • Vince.York - 2012-08-18 06:41

    These fools live and think in "silo's". Like bitter and twisted frog eating (zuma) snakes, they can only see from within their own perspectives and have no capacity for greater & broader leadership - therefore the result of SA plummeting to the depths of despair when comparing African growth in economies and societies. RACIST on top of it - terribly so and worse than apartheid racists ever were too - BLACK RACISM the name of this new anc game. Verwoed setup the apartheid structures that culminated in Sharpville and Zuma undid the ANC zip that culminated that party's Marikana dripping spear.

  • chris.vanlennep - 2012-08-18 07:27

    Blind lead the Blind into history by one

  • zaid.personal - 2012-08-18 07:52

    So let's get this straight. The sum total of the arguments in favour of Israel is that they're apparently under attack by Palestinians how supposedly have no claim to the land they've been living on for who knows how long. And this is despite the FACTS that confirm that Israel is the only illegal nuclear power in the Middle East, Israel has numerous UN resolutions against them that they have consistently violated, the latest Israeli policy is to deport African emigrants and import white ones to replace them (but they're not an apartheid state), Israel deliberately contaminates fresh water sources for the Palestinians in direct violation of international law, Israel was developing atomic weapons with South Africa in the 1970's already in support of the apartheid government against the 'swart gevaar', and the list goes on. Yet we're to believe that Israel is the victim of Palestinian missile attacks? Hmmm...right.

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-08-18 08:20

      Zaid, I have read numerous articles, posts, letters, etc on the issue and I still have no idea who is right and who is wrong. I have finally decided that both israel and palestine are wrong and just trying to decide who is more wrong than the other. As for this forum, people attack based on their prejudices, not the facts. Just look at their blanket condemnation of islam, just because one muslim man speaks. Imagine if you said that all blacks were stupid just because Malema is? Or all christians are misguided because one fanatical bishop rapes choir boys? Sadly, nothing will change their biased, and largely idiotic, viewpoints.

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 08:30

      Israel was created in 1948 from 52% of the land formerly occupied by the Jewish and Palestinian people, and Palestine 43%. Most of the Israeli territory was the Negev Desert. Jerusalem fell into neither territory. Palestinians with their unelected, self-serving neighbors declared war on Israel the very next day. In the 1960's they even invaded Israel twice. Full military invasions. The result: Israel survived and pushed them back, gaining territory in the process. This is the origin of what you wrongly call "stealing land". There have been almost daily attacks by Palestinians, incited by their self-serving unelected backers. Palestinians even teach their children at Kindergarten to attack Israel, rather than be peaceful. Children. Kindergarten. From day one, and even today it's wage war on Israel. Israel defends herself. Yes sometimes going too far, which is unacceptable, but self-defense nonetheless. All that needs to happen is for Palestinians to choose peace side by side with Israel. This is more likely going forward now because the unelected dictators are being removed from power by their people one by one. They will no longer use the Palestinians for their own internal political ploys.

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 08:31

      The Iranian regime adjusts elections to hold onto power. It has stolen the Iranian government from the Iranian people. It funds the Jihadist movement that has killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, mainly Muslims in the Middle East, Africa and elsewhere. It is supporting Bashar Assad's brutal oppression of Syrians wanting nothing more than the right to vote. It supports the stoning of women. It openly calls for the elimination of Israel and denies the Holocaust, the single biggest attempt at human genocide in human history: six million people exterminated. It is dishonest, highly repressive, and self-serving at the expense of the Iranian people and humanity. It's days are numbered, and it knows this. Under no circumstances should it be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

      JohncarlosBiza - 2012-08-18 10:27

      Red Herring there, Mr Fred Fraser. Rather not reply if your opinions are not too relevant. Just me.

      zaid.personal - 2012-08-18 11:52

      @Fred...Erm, ever consider the FACT that Israel constantly threatens its neighbours with pre-emptive attacks? Just wondering if that fact crossed your mind at all. Ever wonder why Israel is never dogged by the IAEA for inspections to confirm their claim not to have nuclear weapons? Nah, didn't think you did. But you'll regurgitate, like so many other illiterates on here, the rubbish that is spewed by the Americans and the main stream media because that's easier than letting go of your prejudices and actually looking at the facts and formulating an objective opinion, right? Right.

      jaba.kov - 2012-08-18 23:12

      You can’t have Genocide or ethnic cleansing if the Palestinians are not dying in mass like the Holocaust, Rwanda, or Congo... or even the way Kadafi or Syria are killing their own. If anything Israel has always wanted and voted for peace. Palestinians attacks, deaths and their use of human shields (Children) is a war crime done by Hamas! You want to see an area cleansed then where did all the Christians and Jews that lived in the Arab world go? Why are Gays disappearing in Iran and Saudi… why are women stoned for being raped in this world you seem to represent? Israel has a 20% Muslim population who earn a better living then any of their neighbours... who vote and live anywhere in Israel... if anything your comment of human rights atrocities are more true to Israel's neighbours rather than Israel...

  • Tiaan Liebenberg - 2012-08-18 08:04

    Whatever. Minister of wara wara what what.

  • Gcodi Mahomed - 2012-08-18 08:05

    the downward spiral of israel to the point of self destruction gains momentum unabated,i know it ,the zionists know it,and the zionist commenting know it that israels end is near,

      Frank Cornelissen - 2012-08-18 08:18

      And here I was under the impression you lot are not supposed to get sloshed! Chop!

      iceman196 - 2012-08-18 08:21

      hey broken cd, you wanna tell us again, chop

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 08:32

      Only you "know it". Sadly, what you know is the rhetoric sold to you by self-serving dictatorships being removed from power one by one by their own people. They've seen through the lies. Unfortunately you haven't yet.

      zaid.personal - 2012-08-18 11:55

      @Fred...those same dictators that you and others so conveniently refer to now was actively and openly supported by the very same governments that actively and openly support Israel without a peep from Israel. But of course, we've already established that facts mean nothing. Conjecture is the order of the day, and the opinion of the uninformed masses is what determines which country will next be the victim of Israeli/US aggression because of the suspicion of something happening there, right? Hmmm...don't bother responding. Your arguments are vacuous at best, and ridiculous at worst.

  • J.Stephen.Whiteley - 2012-08-18 08:17

    Israel is no more an Apartheid State than Iceland is an apple orchard. The Jews know what persecution is

      zaid.personal - 2012-08-18 11:58

      hahahahaha, so now we're going to pull the holocaust card? Come on, surely there's a more intellectually grounded argument than that? Last time I checked, Palestine had nothing to do with the Nazis, and Israel was getting handsomely compensated by Germany and others for the holocaust that happened about 6 decades ago. But it must be the Palestinian's fault, right? Gimme a break.

      cameronrh1 - 2012-08-18 12:22

      @zaid.personal you would be surprised actually, ever heard of Hitlers Arab army led by the Führer's Mufti ( Haj Amin el-Husseini ), who pretty much started the whole Palstinian libel that we hear today. He was hoping that after the end of the war he and Hitler would wipe out the entire Jewish population in Israel. http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/medigest/may00/arabnazi.html Do some research.

      zaid.personal - 2012-08-18 12:30

      @Cameron...being selective, are we? So when you quote non-main stream views, we're supposed to swallow it wholeheartedly and accept it as fact, but when we quote non-mainstream views with references to sources to substantiate those facts, it's dismissed because we're Muslims with an agenda? Hypocritical, no?

      jason.faraday.3 - 2012-08-18 17:52

      @cameronrh1 And I am sure that you will be equally surprised that the Irgun (a Jewish terrorist group in the real sense of the word) also tried to get the Third Reich on their side. Quits?

  • parys.fotograaf - 2012-08-18 08:18

    This minister is clearly out of touch with what freedom means. Keep on adding paint to the target on your back mr Minister, make it even bigger or shut the hell up.

  • wally.williams.148 - 2012-08-18 08:31

    The dear minister must go get his facts straight. There never was a Palestine Territory, save for a vast area so called. It never was a country. Go see where the so called Palestine got the land from they want to stake claim to and how. Go look in history how the Jewish ppl have been persecuted and killed and litterally driven off their land and out of their country. The part claimed to be Palestine Territory is land agreed upon by Israel to be given them. This in contrast to the Holy Instruction as I view it, or what ever you would prefer to call it. They are fighting to protect their borders while ignorami like the minister want Israel to give away land that will leave them totally exposed an indefensible. These grouops of ppl have not yet seen Israel as a ppl suffer enough at the hands of Germany, Islamist countries over centuries and other. Why is it so difficult to allow Israel for once to have true peace in the land and country of their own? Why not for once be true to yourselves and protest against the nations causing the anxiety and unstability ALL the time? Do you expect Israel to sit idly by and "negotiate" while others are planning to "wipe it from the face of the earth"? What do you do, minister, when your ppl are attacked from the Palesatinian side on a continuous basis only to hide and run away and shout foul when Israel hits back? How, minister, do you protect your own citizens from these attacks? Not by harbouring them on your doorstep, but by clearing land.

      brendan.k.shaw - 2012-08-18 08:47

      @ Wally as I understand it were the Palestinians not interested in that area that the Jews claimed as Israel as it was like dry desert and then the Jews built it up into a country. These Arabs/Palestinians got jealous and wanted the land and invaded Israel only to come a cropper

  • brendan.k.shaw - 2012-08-18 08:32

    @zaid.personal:\this is about human rights and dignity\. The same human rights and dignity of those in China, eg. Tianenmin Square, Iran, North Korea, Tibet, Syria, etc. I wonder why Minister Ebrahim has not commented on that. Is it possibly that they do not want to upset these 'friends'? He is showcasing his hypocrisy. It does not matter how you try to explain it.

      zaid.personal - 2012-08-18 12:01

      That's like saying that if we don't condemn every single crime out there, we're not allowed to speak out against any of them. Get real. That logic is ridiculously flawed. If the minister was CONDONING something similar in one land, and then criticising the same act in another, then perhaps you would have some merit in your statement, but he didn't, so you don't. Let's be reasonable, shall we?

  • Gcodi Mahomed - 2012-08-18 08:34

    those people that hate south africa,pack your bags and go to the promise land

      frank.cornelissen.1 - 2012-08-18 08:51

      Why don't you go live in Palestine where your heart so obviously is. Go and manufacture a rocket and let the IDF shoot your stupid head off instead of soiling SA with your BS! Idiot!

  • mohamed.ismail.338863 - 2012-08-18 08:44

    UN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992 1.Resolution 106: "...‘condemns’ Israel for Gaza raid" 2.Resolution 111: "...‘condemns’ Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people" 3.Resolution 127: "...‘recommends’ Israel suspend its ‘no-man’s zone’ in Jerusalem" 4.Resolution 162: "...‘urges’ Israel to comply with UN decisions" 5.Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations’ by Israel in its attack on Syria" 6.Resolution 228: "...‘censures’ Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control" 7.Resolution 237: "...‘urges’ Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees" 8.Resolution 248: "...‘condemns’ Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan" 9.Resolution 250: "...‘calls’ on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem" 10.Resolution 251: "...‘deeply deplores’ Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"

      cameronrh1 - 2012-08-18 12:24

      @mohamed yes an Arab majority UN assembley with all their funded puppet countries i am sure they would pass countless resoultions against Israel just to dim the light on their own human right violations.

  • mohamed.ismail.338863 - 2012-08-18 08:45

    21.Resolution 285: "...‘demands’ immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon" 22.Resolution 298: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s changing of the status of Jerusalem" 23.Resolution 313: "...‘demands’ that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon" 24.Resolution 316: "...‘condemns’ Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon" 25.Resolution 317: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon" 26.Resolution 332: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s repeated attacks against Lebanon" 27.Resolution 337: "...‘condemns’ Israel for violating Lebanon’s sovereignty" 28.Resolution 347: "...‘condemns’ Israeli attacks on Lebanon" 29.Resolution 425: "...‘calls’ on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon" 30.Resolution 427: "...‘calls’ on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon’

  • mohamed.ismail.338863 - 2012-08-18 08:46

    31.Resolution 444: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces" 32.Resolution 446: "...‘determines’ that Israeli settlements are a ‘serious obstruction’ to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention" 33.Resolution 450: "...‘calls’ on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon" 34.Resolution 452: "...‘calls’ on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories" 35.Resolution 465: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel’s settlements program" 36.Resolution 467: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s military intervention in Lebanon" 37.Resolution 468: "...‘calls’ on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return" 38.Resolution 469: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s failure to observe the council’s order not to deport Palestinians" 39.Resolution 471: "...‘expresses deep concern’ at Israel’s failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention" 40.Resolution 476: "...‘reiterates’ that Israel’s claims to Jerusalem are ‘null and void’

  • mohamed.ismail.338863 - 2012-08-18 08:48

    51.Resolution 520: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s attack into West Beirut" 52.Resolution 573: "...‘condemns’ Israel ‘vigorously’ for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters 53.Resolution 587: "...‘takes note’ of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw" 54.Resolution 592: "...‘strongly deplores’ the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops" 55.Resolution 605: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians 56.Resolution 607: "...‘calls’ on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention 57.Resolution 608: "...‘deeply regrets’ that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians" 58.Resolution 636: "...‘deeply regrets’ Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians 59.Resolution 641: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s continuing deportation of Palestinians 60.Resolution 672: "...‘condemns’ Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount

  • mohamed.ismail.338863 - 2012-08-18 08:49

    61.Resolution 673: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to cooperate with the United Nations 62.Resolution 681: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s resumption of the deportation of Palestinians 63.Resolution 694: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return 64.Resolution 726: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians 65.Resolution 799: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

      frank.cornelissen.1 - 2012-08-18 09:48

      Oh give it a rest you self-serving fool, we really and truly don't give a damn as the Palestine plight is self-inflicted due to the fact that they shun any peaceful solution to their problem! So let them eat cake!!

      jason.faraday.3 - 2012-08-18 10:04

      @ Fred Fraser - Arabs continuously attack Israel? # Who ethnically cleansed 200+ Arab villages before the Arab states declared war? # Who assassinated the UN representative charged with the implementation of UN GA resolution 181? # Who attacked Egypt in 1956? # Who attacked Syria in 1966 and invaded Jordan in the same year # Who rejected Anwar Sadat's peace proposal of 1971? Cut with the Zionist Myths, Fred. If you disagree, please supply a link to a forum where we can continue this debate. # Who attacked Egypt

      jaba.kov - 2012-08-18 23:27

      jason aka Mo; Arabs were not expelled from their homes. Israel went to enormous lengths to reassure them, and to get them to stay. In fact, the ones who did stay are citizens of Israel, enjoying all of the rights and privileges of citizenship, although not all of the obligations (such as military service). The ones who left were voluntary quits, who heeded the call of their leadership to get out of the way of the "conquering Arab armies" (I trust you are aware that one day after Israel's declaration of modern statehood, it was attacked by five Arab armies). No one expected Israel to win, but win they did. Won five more subsequent wars, too, all of them started by the Arabs. If you are serious about the question of expulsion, I suggest you look no further than the one million Jews expelled from their homes in Moslem and Arab lands in 1948, with little more than the clothes on their backs. It happened again, on a lesser scale, following Israel's stunning victory in the Six Day War.

  • david.wolpert.39 - 2012-08-18 08:57

    While Israel develops as a nation,Ebrahim and his buddies are turning SA into a basket place,and under the ANC there is more racism,hatred and apartheid than anywhere else.

      zaid.personal - 2012-08-18 12:07

      *yawn*

  • fred.fraser.12 - 2012-08-18 09:15

    Has Mohammed Ismael EVER posted ANYTHING about the hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims being killed or maimed by unelected dictators and Jihadists in his mists RIGHT NOW? Never. Tragically stupid.

      jason.faraday.3 - 2012-08-18 10:05

      Nope. Just his democratic right to attack the Apartheid State of his choice.

      RID1LAHER - 2012-08-18 10:08

      http://m.forward.com/articles/143231/south-african-jews-struggle-with-legacy-of-aparthe Fred my friend please read this !

      mohamed.ismail.338863 - 2012-08-18 10:46

      You are really something else.. I posted facts and resolutions against Israel and you still wanna change the topic.. But to ease your concerns ... The new middle east in the making is opposed to the Policies of Israel. In fact even the UN is opposed to it.. so sir .. please stop supporting Apartheid

      zaid.personal - 2012-08-18 12:10

      Erm, how about sticking to the issue at hand? Or is your only way to get ahead in this debate to try to distract people's attention by raising issues that have nothing to do with the issue at hand? How we view or treat any other situation or crime in no way legitimises or de-legitimises what's happening in Israel and Palestine. Feels like I'm having a discussion with first graders given the ridiculous logic on this comment stream.

  • Malose-Nyatlo - 2012-08-18 09:18

    Straight from the heart, or has it become government policy. Israel, for all practical purposes, is a spiritual home for South African Christian majority - any attempt at dissuading from visiting the Holy land will be tantamount to discouraging Muslims from visiting Saudi Arabia. Can we be guided by the United Nations on this Minister.

  • RID1LAHER - 2012-08-18 10:07

    Israel the Apartheid State aswell as those settled in SA were in full support of our Apartheid Gowvernment let us not be ignorant of tha facts and attack on race and religion. Look @ this article http://m.forward.com/articles/143231/south-african-jews-struggle-with-legacy-of-aparthe. FRED FRASER please read! Let's remember what Madiba said South Africa will never b free until Palestine is free! I think we shuould 1st understand where he is coming from! Could any1 advise people to visit a place where their is a violation of human rights and a place which built a wall around the Palestinians making it a open air prison and still expect to live in peace! Expecting them 2 b happy with their condition?? I was with Sepp Blatter in Palestine he was shocked!! Why do we think the likes of Christiano Ronaldo/ Messi have strong support for the Palestinian course? Let's all google images of war in Palestine and occupied palestine(israel) and you will see Tanks and fighter jets of Israel vs homemade equipment of the Palestinians,the you can decide from there! Thank You God Bless Us

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-08-18 10:11

      Peace is possible between Palestinians and Israel. All they have to do is swallow their pride, banish their hate induced humiliation, and accept Israel and its Jewish character. Along with other terms and conditions that Israel has won the right to insist upon.

      JohncarlosBiza - 2012-08-18 10:37

      @Larry won the right based on which international laws?

      RID1LAHER - 2012-08-18 10:45

      You can't xpect Palestine to bow down to bullying tactics it needs to be a win-win situation, if they have your attitude they will never be peace! And yes won on what right??? By violating human rights??? Please I beg everyone to familairise yourslef with the facts and know what's going on on the ground than comment! And you will never know this until you go there! Its inhumane you can't xpect these people 2 sit back and be happy in these conditions!

      Larry - 2012-08-18 13:23

      Based on the International Laws of War, if a country is invaded, and territory is won by the invaded country, as was the case in the 1967 war, then the terms of peace and the return of the conquered territory are decided by the winning side. In the same war Israel conquered the Sinai Peninsular of Egypt, Golan Heights of Syria, and Shatilla Farms of Lebanon. The Sinai was returned to Egypt in 1972 after a peace deal was struck which remains to this day. The Shatilla Farms were relinquished on Israels terms. The Golan Heights remains occupied by Israel in the absence of a peace deal and they are still technically at war. The same applies to the West Bank. An attempt was made to relinquish Gaza in a brokered deal called 'Land for peace' and see what Israel got in return. Israel will not be making the same mistake with the West Bank. Israel has all the leverage and has won this from hostile attempts to destroy the Jewish State. Palestinians have nothing but their humiliation and hatred to feed themselves. It is up to them to realise that they cannot exist alongside Israel unless they change their attitude.

      jason.faraday.3 - 2012-08-18 16:00

      From Larry: "Based on the International Laws of War, if a country is invaded, and territory is won by the invaded country, as was the case in the 1967 war, then the terms of peace and the return of the conquered territory are decided by the winning side." Absolute rubbish Larry. You made that up. There is no such entry in the Laws of War. Check the Kellogg-Briant pact. Check the League of Nations covenant. Check the charter of the UN. Check UN Security Council resolution 242 which clearly summarises all of this with "Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war" - http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/un242.htm

      jason.faraday.3 - 2012-08-18 17:56

      @Larry "All they have to do is swallow their pride, banish their hate induced humiliation, and accept Israel and its Jewish character." As a Zionist Larry, does this mean that you support the racist underpinning of the essence of Israel = Jewish by definition and by Law? When South Africa tried that it was vilified.

      jason.faraday.3 - 2012-08-18 18:18

      @ Larry Why don't you pop over to http://www.theforumsa.co.za/forums/forumdisplay.php/45-South-African-Politics-Forum where we can continue this discussion. I will post your comment on 'the Laws of War' there to facilitate that. Let me know if you are interested in a better archived discussion. fred.fraser.12 can join also, as can anyone else, because this thread will soon be buried ... Zaid.personal; mohamed.ismail.338863; Wally; cameronrh1?

      cilliers.vanniekerk.1 - 2012-08-18 23:58

      As may be expected from a true believer seeking selfish justice, you are also wrong, Jason, since your citation of UN Security Council Resolution 242 is selective. Its main points, sensibly and justly given even weight, were: (i) "Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict (i.e. the 1967 war); (ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force." You are happy to correct your opponent by means of the first point, but deny him the justice of the second by suppressing it. That is deceptive and dishonourable, and in the end necessarily destructive. What do you hope to accomplish?

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-08-19 08:59

      "To the victor goes the spoils." Ageless quote. The West bank territory presents an anomoly in International law as it is and never has been a recognised soveriegn country. Having rejected statehood in 1948, Jordan 'annexed' and 'occupied' the West Bank right up until the 1967 6 day war with Israel. Israel won the West Bank, among other territorial conquest, as an outcome to this war and 'occupied' this stateless territory on similar terms to Jordan's occupation between 1948 and 1967. The territory is now under 'dispute'.

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-08-19 09:50

      One must also consider another stark realisation. The Palestinian people as exemplified by Hamas, along with Arab nations and their proxies, are not fighting solely to free the West bank from occupation. They are specifically intending to rid themselves of Israel entirely. If allowed, another genocide would occur. In this context, Israel is at war, and all of the West Bank, and Gaza I suppose, are occupied or under siege. The Laws of War relating to 'prisoners of war' and 'occupation' applies, and Israel acts within the Hague Convention. The only contravention is the 'settlments' of Israeli citizens, however this is murky from a law perspective as the west Bank territory is not a sovereign nation, and is therefore up for grabs (dispute).

  • Savourcard - 2012-08-18 14:27

    @ Fred.fraser.12 -- the Islamists have no answer for you because they'd cannot change the hard facts. Another fact they do not like is that until midway through the 20th century, the word "Palestinian" referred to JEWS and not to Muslims. The word was coined by the Romans and referred to a JEWISH state, not Muslim (which did not exist as a religion at the time since Mohammed hadn't even been born yet). In fact, at the start of the 20th century, Muslim leaders themselves said Palestinians were JEWS and that no Arab should call themselves as a Palestinian. The so-called Palestinians of today are in fact refugees from Jordan who illegally occupied the territory they now live in as they fled from Jordan since they did not recognize the newly-formed kingdom. The fact is they have NO claim on ANY of the territory of modern Israel. They never did.

      jason.faraday.3 - 2012-08-18 15:56

      Which means that you are not aware that the Jews who remained in/returned to 'Roman Palestine' converted to Christianity and then to Islam. In the mid 1800s there were some 140 000 Muslims in Palestine compared to 10 000 Jews. Those Jews-->Christians-->Muslims are now called Palestinians. You can confirm this by checking the incredibly close correspondence between their DNA and that of the Mehradi Jews. The story about them being mainly immigrants from surrounding countries is a Zionist Myth, easily refuted.

  • john.cryink - 2012-08-18 16:32

    At least in Israel I can pray to God in all forms people want to worship. But the day that Palastine could become a state a Mulim constitution will be forced on people by far there will be discriminated agaist other religions

      mohamed.ismail.338863 - 2012-08-18 18:48

      Dear John \r\nYour information about the Islamic Constitution is totally biased and not more than islamophobic. The Islamic Constitution makes it very clear that no person must be forced to change his or her religion. In fact under a true muslim constitution if a muslim kills a non muslim the Islamic Judge can order the death penalty of the killer. A non muslim has all the rights of a muslim and more. in a true islamic state there is a minimal tax for non muslims set @ 2.5% which is applicable to those than are of working class. Islam commands muslims not to Force people to believe. So rest assure that you will be free to practice your beliefs in a church or synagogue of choice. \r\n\r\nAs muslims we believe that God the almighty is one we also believe that all the prophets of god came to enlighten mankind we believe that all prophets from Adam to Muhammad pbuh are messengers of the lord .. With Jesus the son of Mary as one of the best Prophets along with Moses pbuh Abraham pbuh David pbuh and Soloman and all others.. I sincerly hope that we as a nation can prosper without being biased but rather being among those that seek the true God and follow the teachings of all Prophets..

  • phillip.havenga - 2012-08-18 19:36

    Israel has every reason to stand it's ground. If the Palestinians didn't start something then there would be nothing. So all I can say to you bleeding heart liberals is my heart pumps custard for you.

  • jaba.kov - 2012-08-18 22:41

    If Hamas and the other political groups in the disputed regions began acting more like civilised political parties rather than terrorists with the sole aim of killing Israeli civilians (remember, if Israel had the same aim this whole issue would have been put to bed years ago due to their military might) then Israel would not have a leg to stand on and the US and the West would have no choice but to put pressure to bear on Israel to make concessions to the now truly peaceful and democratic Palestinians. Israel has every right to use what ever it needs to fight Palestinian terrorism in self defence. I have never and can never support any terrorist organisation that supports the killing of innocent civilians no matter how just they believe their cause. When the Palestinians side renounce terror there will be peace... and that is the sad truth. It is not Israel’s fault that they are stronger than their attackers… you can’t start a fight and then cry when you get beaten to a pulp…

  • Jason Farber - 2012-08-19 09:29

    DEAR Deputy Minister Ebrahim, You are a minister of the South African government, appointed to advance the interests of the republic and the people of South Africa in an impartial and rational manner. As a citizen and as a national religious leader of South Africa, I object to the way in which you are abusing your high office to promote your personal agenda. You obviously have a "blind spot" when it comes to Israel; you lose your sense of objectivity and rationality when dealing with the Jewish state. You have used your platform and title in an active campaign to prevent South Africans — and especially members of the government — from visiting Israel. This is but one example of your irrational obsession with Israel to the detriment of the proper execution of your governmental duties. You have acted in breach of your government’s own foreign policy, in terms of which South Africa and Israel have full diplomatic relations. Your actions hark back to apartheid-style control of information and censorship. Why would you try to prevent South Africans from travelling to Israel and seeing the situation for themselves? Do you think, Mr Ebrahim, that the South African people are not as clever as you are, that they cannot think for themselves and that they need to be protected from the facts? Maybe you are afraid — and rightly so — that if people go to Israel and see the situation for themselves, their perspective will be completely different. Are you worried that they will see that, in fact, there is no apartheid in Israel? South Africans visiting Israel will find a multiracial, multi-ethnic vibrant society in which more than 1.5-million Arabs live as full and equal Israeli citizens, vote as part of a single national voters’ roll and have full legal rights in all areas of society. Are you concerned that when South Africans travel on buses, visit parks, malls, hospitals and university campuses, attend the Israeli parliament and the Supreme Court, they will find Jews and Arabs living and working together in complete equality? They may hear, for example, that, in fact, it was an Arab judge who convicted former Israeli president Moshe Katsav on rape charges. Maybe you are afraid that South African Christians will find that Israel is the only country in the Middle East where they can practise their religion freely, without fear; that South African women will find that Israel is the only country in the Middle East where they can be fully equal citizens; that South African trade unionists will discover that Israel is the only country in the Middle East where there are legal and active trade unions that protect workers’ rights; that South African journalists will see that Israel is the only country in the Middle East where freedom of expression is properly upheld. Are you worried that our fellow South Africans may learn that successive Israeli governments have supported the establishment of a Palestinian state as part of a negotiated peace agreement? Are you concerned that South Africans may speak to Ehud Barak, the dovish former prime minister of Israel, who desperately tried at the Camp David and Taba negotiations to create a Palestinian state, only to be rebuffed by the Palestinian leadership? Are you concerned that South Africans might hear for themselves directly from the current Israeli government how it seeks to return immediately to the negotiating table without preconditions, and that it is the Palestinian leadership that refuses to do so? Maybe you are worried that our fellow South Africans may discover that the so-called "separation wall" is actually a security fence; that before it was erected, waves of suicide bombers killed more than 1,300 Israelis and wounded more than 10,000, and that since its erection these attacks have stopped. Maybe you are afraid that South Africans might speak to members of Hamas, who openly call for the destruction of the state of Israel and the murder of all Jews around the world. Mr Ebrahim, your personal bias against Israel prevents you from fulfilling your legal and ethical duties as minister of international relations and co-operation, who, with impartiality and sound judgment, is supposed to further peace, justice and South African strategic interests in the world. Your actions to discourage South Africans from travelling to Israel are but one manifestation of your extremist views. In so doing, you are jeopardising SA’s international credibility and strategic interests. It is indeed the ideological allies of Hamas and Hezbollah — Israel’s sworn enemies — who have also launched a terror campaign against Christian communities throughout Africa. In recent months, scores of churches have been burnt and hundreds of Christians have been murdered because of their faith. Nigeria, one of our key African partners, has borne the brunt of some of the worst attacks. As a leading African nation, South Africa must condemn these attacks and express support and offer assistance to its fellow African governments in Nigeria, Somalia, Sudan and elsewhere. To South Africa’s shame, you have remained silent. You have been too hesitant and weak in condemning Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s actions, which have resulted in the deaths of more than 20,000 of his citizens and the displacement of nearly 150,000 people. These are but a few examples of how your prejudice precludes you from fulfilling your role as a minister of this government. You seem to forget that your mandate is to serve the interests of the people and the government of South Africa and not your own personal allegiances. A judge who is biased or perceived to be so is legally and ethically required to remove himself from the case, in the interest of integrity, justice and truth. These same values require that you do the same and resign. Especially during such turbulent times, how does a minister of international relations discourage people from travelling and seeing for themselves? Why do you repeat the sins of the apartheid regime and shun dialogue with and understanding of the "other"? Peace cannot be achieved by withdrawal and isolation; as the Book of Psalms (34:15) says: "Seek peace, and pursue it." The dream of peace will become a reality only when people proactively pursue it and move beyond their prejudices and preconceptions and truly understand the complex realities of the Middle East in an open-minded and balanced way. Your actions support the forces of extremism, hatred and violence, and undermine the forces of tolerance, freedom and peaceful negotiations. For the sake of peace and justice, we need more information, not less; we need more dialogue, not less; we need more connections with other societies, not less. You clearly do not believe so, and hence you are unfit to hold public office. Do the honourable thing: resign. Dr Warren Goldstein Chief Rabbi

  • Jason Farber - 2012-08-19 09:39

    When will the Arabs learn. You start wars with Israel you get beaten to a pulp then you cry to the world that the big bad Israelis are to big and strong and it's not fair. Never in history has a nation given back land it won in a DEFENSIVE war. Only silly Israel does and what do they get. More rockets and more bombs. This has all happened before and will happen again. STOP attacking Israel and abandon the anti Jewish rhetoric and maybe things will change.

  • mohamed.ismail.338863 - 2012-08-19 16:05

    Mr Faber.. The only thing that needs addressing is your stance against Muslims and Palestinians in general. You mention that Mr Ebrahim is Biased.. if thats true then so is the United Nations. Your selective cheering for Israel is obviously one sided. Lets get this clear.. Israel and other countries asked for there to be a democratic election in Gaza, and there was.. which was won by hamas. Hamas is and was a resistance movement. When they won Israel started to target the People of Gaza. There is never enough drinking water. never enough electricity for thw people and most importantly there ares traces of uranium in the little water that the Palestinians have due to the use of Uranium bombs on civilians. Your overwhelming support that you afford the Israelis is contradictory to Human Rights watch , Amnesty International as well as The United Nations. If any reader wants to clarify any of the fraudulent claims made by any supporter of Israel then do one thing Visit the google webpage and search for all resolutions against Israel .You the honest reader will be amazed at the propaganda posted in all comments that stipulate Israel as innocent as a baby. To learn the conflict each person must conduct his or her ob research into the subject and visit United Nations list of Attrocities against Palestinians in Palestine Gaza Lebanon Syria and Golan Heights see what these international bodies say and then take a stance.. i did and now i support True Jewish Faith and not Zionist Jewish propagandists. May the All mighty Lord Guide us all.

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-08-19 19:35

      Mr Ismail. You are a liar. What is worse is that you know that you yourself are a liar. Mr Ebrahim is clearly biased and it is quite obvious. The United Nations is also very clearly biased, as it is top-heavy with non-democratic Muslim nations, communist countries and third world despotic regimes, exploiting a democratic institution to further their non-democratic goals. Hamas may have won the Gaza elections, but within a week of doing so, they banished the fatah opposition and threw fatah officials from rooftops to their deaths. hamas immediately began indiscriminate rocket fire on Israeli civilians. This escalated until Israeli IDF put a stop to it and not the other way round.

      zaid.personal - 2012-08-21 07:25

      @Larry, perhaps you should respond to specifically what Mohamed is putting to you rather than try to discredit his statements by asserting that he is a liar. Strange how the UN is good when they veto resolutions against Israel, but suddenly they're manipulated by incompetent and impotent Arab states the moment they speak out against Israel. The truth is, the UN will only ever speak out against Israel if they know that their statements will be of no effect. But numerous independent organisations as pointed out by Mohamed in several comments confirms the atrocities that Israel commits on a regular basis, let alone being guilty of using Palestinians as human shield, including the wanton use of absolutely disproportionate force.

  • mohamed.ismail.338863 - 2012-08-19 16:05

    Mr Faber.. The only thing that needs addressing is your stance against Muslims and Palestinians in general. You mention that Mr Ebrahim is Biased.. if thats true then so is the United Nations. Your selective cheering for Israel is obviously one sided. Lets get this clear.. Israel and other countries asked for there to be a democratic election in Gaza, and there was.. which was won by hamas. Hamas is and was a resistance movement. When they won Israel started to target the People of Gaza. There is never enough drinking water. never enough electricity for thw people and most importantly there ares traces of uranium in the little water that the Palestinians have due to the use of Uranium bombs on civilians. Your overwhelming support that you afford the Israelis is contradictory to Human Rights watch , Amnesty International as well as The United Nations. If any reader wants to clarify any of the fraudulent claims made by any supporter of Israel then do one thing Visit the google webpage and search for all resolutions against Israel .You the honest reader will be amazed at the propaganda posted in all comments that stipulate Israel as innocent as a baby. To learn the conflict each person must conduct his or her ob research into the subject and visit United Nations list of Attrocities against Palestinians in Palestine Gaza Lebanon Syria and Golan Heights see what these international bodies say and then take a stance.. i did and now i support True Jewish Faith and not Zionist Jewish propagandists. May the All mighty Lord Guide us all.

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