News24

Mulder denying our history: DA

2012-02-16 14:49

Johannesburg - Freedom Front Plus leader Pieter Mulder needs to be reminded about the "real history" of South Africa, the DA said on Thursday.

"Instead of denying our history, as Mr Mulder does, we must do everything we can to ensure that people have access to land. We have to put right the wrongs of the past," Democratic Alliance national spokesperson Mmusi Maimane said in a statement.

"We cannot simply wish it away. Redress is a democratic imperative. But we have to remedy the sins of apartheid in a way that is sustainable so that all South Africans may benefit from the richness of our soil."

On Wednesday, Mulder suggested in Parliament that black "Bantu-speaking" people had no historical claim to 40% of the country.

Plenty of land available

"Africans in particular never in the past lived in the whole of South Africa," he said during debate in the National Assembly on last week's State of the Nation address.

Maimane said there was plenty of land available for land reform, and South Africa needed a land reform programme which was fair and economically viable, and the answer was not to do away with the willing-seller, willing-buyer model.

"The solution is an efficient department of rural development that can process claims quickly and can facilitate the efficient and fair distribution of land.

"If we can get that right, there will be no need for anybody - whether it is Julius Malema or Pieter Mulder - to use the emotive issue of land to pander to their own narrow constituencies," said Maimane.

Mulder's remarks on Wednesday provoked an angry buzz from ruling party benches, which rose in pitch when he explained: "There is sufficient proof that there were no Bantu-speaking people in the Western Cape and north western Cape."

These areas formed 40% of South Africa's land surface, he told MPs.

Emotional issue


Mulder serves in President Jacob Zuma's Cabinet as deputy agriculture minister.

In his State of the Nation address, Zuma said the willing-buyer willing-seller option had "not been the best way to address" land redistribution.

Mulder said the question of land ownership was an emotional issue that had caused many wars. He took issue with land ownership figures cited by Zuma in his address.

"The president quotes in his address the department of rural development's figures on land reform.

"According to [these], white people possessed 87% of the land, and the government had reached only 8% of its 30% [land reform] target. I seriously differ from these figures.

Calculations


"How does the department calculate the 8%? There isn't a completed land audit against which we could correlate these facts."

The Development Bank of SA calculated in 2001 that 44% of the country's land belonged to whites, 20% to blacks, 9% to brown people and 1% to Asians.

"The way in which the department has calculated the 30% and 8% figures creates the impression that they are setting themselves up to fail."

Mulder said he seriously differed with the claim that white people had stolen land.

Referring to Zuma's remarks on the willing-buyer, willing-seller option, he said that, in plain language, this meant the government now believed in the nationalisation of agricultural land. However, anyone who had dealt with land reform knew the problem was not with the willing-buyer, willing-seller principle.

Mulder said he hoped there would come a time when both white and black commercial farmers did not have to look for opportunities elsewhere in Africa.

Comments
  • Mlungisi - 2012-02-16 15:00

    are you drunk papie?

  • Merkwaardig - 2012-02-16 15:00

    Dear Mr. Maimane, please identify the factually incorrect sections in Mr. Mulder's presentation. I would be very interested.

      Nick - 2012-02-16 15:34

      No thanks Craig.

      Alisha - 2012-02-16 16:52

      http://hookingup.co.za/DSC_0056.JPG

      Kusleg - 2012-02-16 16:56

      All he said is treasonous...it cause uncalled for death to the other peace loving SAcans on this forum

      Joe - 2012-02-17 14:56

      Mulder was spot on. Out of all the responses from various SA political players not one could challenge his statements. The majority of South Africans will resist Mulder's comments  for obvious reasons. The truth is unfortunately not one of those reasons. Mulder only scraped the top of this iceberg. Comprehensively researching this land issue will reveal just how many lies have been fed to the voting public over the last couple of years. The ANC and DA can deny this all they want, but something very wrong is busy happening in this country. You cannot build a sustainable future on lies. In addition, DNA research has proven that all people living in SA are settlers. http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/we-are-all-settlers-in-sa-1.366860

  • justin.pretorius - 2012-02-16 15:01

    It is a fact DA! The Khoi-San are the true indigenous population of SA! The DNA tests conducted by univeristies prove this beyond all doubt. Accept the facts and stop being PC about it!

      Francois - 2012-02-16 15:18

      how can DNA tests confirm land ownership? Everyone knows that the Khoi - San was the people inhabiting the land when Van Riebeeck came here, but who owned the land before the Khoi - San came here? From where did the Nguni tribes come? There are two questions that must be answered and are difficult even for politcians to answer: How far do you want to go back - 1913, 1838, 1652, 1492, 1215, 1000BC and then what about the rule of law that applied at that time? In the 1400s it was accepted that if your tribe was defeated, you loose your land, that rules applied to conquests of the Allied forces made in 1945. Thus - somewhere a line has to be drawn and in SA it was at 1913 with the Natives Land Act and Mbeki as representative of the ANC agreed and 30% was the target which was also agreed. Now let us get the facts out of how much land is really transferred or black owned and take it from there. Mulder is right, Zuma knows that his party inefficient running of the land distribution forces him (Zuma) to play the nationalization card and it also will detract some of the support from those who wnat to step in the gap that Malema will leave that is if the latter does not form his own party. Zuma, you are managing the country to civil war, this time however it will be in the open. I think you must pay attention to Mulder and get the facts on the table.

      Patrick - 2012-02-16 15:27

      What Pieter Mulder has said I've heard before. The extreme right wing organisations and white supremacists have propagated it before. Its just that it had not been articulated so boldly in PARLIEMENT as it was by him. Actually others take it further and allege that by the time of the arrival of the white settlers Africans had occupied no land to the south of the Orange River and therefore the entire SA area was up for grabs by both black and white "settlers". So we have equal claim to the land therefore. Good thing its now in the public domain so that we can once and for all remove it from their psyche!

      mariuskowie - 2012-02-16 15:28

      The DNA testing an all the related hoo-haa is just smoke and mirrors to distract from the core facts. When the relevant areas in the Cape was colonized there was no Bantu speaking people. Also, the current regime is constantly distorting the statistics relating to land ownership to suit their own dark agenda. The propaganda tends to become the "facts" and the truth becomes unacceptable when it comes to politics.

      justin.pretorius - 2012-02-16 15:39

      The Nguni moved down from Africa - why does everyone assume that I mean "universities" are the previous apartheid universities? Have a look on the web regarding the studies by overseas universities for further clarity

      Nkulekweni - 2012-02-16 15:42

      At least this is a step forward from the claim that this land was empty of any inhabitants and that bantu people moved south at the same time as the settlers arrived. ...My family is a bantu/khoisan family...and bantu languages have clicks because of the centuries old proximity of the bantu peoples and the khoisan people before the arrival of any European settlers. Fortunately for us accounts on the arrival of settlers in this part of Africa were not written only by apartheid scholars...but were also written by Europeans and Arab scholars who had nothing to gain from distorting history.

      Zion - 2012-02-16 15:43

      justin, just a point to moot: The khoi-San were concentrated only in the coastal regions of the Western Cape so how can they be the rightful owners of the rest of south Africa then SA did not even exist.

      msendi - 2012-02-16 16:40

      We can go on and on with this cheap theory of who came first, who have the rightful ownership, but the truth is, Historically, South Africa don't belong to people of European origin. They took it from Africans by force. People of African origin died trying to defend this land from Europeans. At the moment, as South Africans, we have a chance to resolve this issue peacefully. Nobody knows what will happen in future. Time of lies and brainwashing people with cheap propaganda is over…

      Wim - 2012-02-16 17:45

      Presuming they have a brain. All evidence points to the contrary.

      Nkulekweni - 2012-02-17 11:57

      Evidence in this case being what you want to hear Wim. There is also evidence I believe that grass is pink. Those who are interested in fatcs and not apartheid fiction can use this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion as a start and there is bibliography there for those who are interested in reading further. Apartheid scholars in South Africa have admitted in papers delivered in different forums of being forced to hide evidence that supports the fact of centuries of Bantu presence in what is now called South Africa. In doing this they actually compromised their own careers as scholars since Linguistic and other evidence (e.g. agriculture) cannot however be hidden nor twisted.

  • AyGeewils - 2012-02-16 15:04

    The Past cannot be remedied – that’s a pipe dream - but the future can be positive and productive for all South Africans if we are able to stop corruption - put in place a competent government and become citizens of one country. Our biggest enemy is racism - ie each other. Only we as a dispirit people can destroy this land or we as a nation can save it.

      AyGeewils - 2012-02-16 16:03

      I do nor support the DA or the ANC - I believe a competent goverment can come from within the pragmatic and informed members of our society - It requires a dynamic individual - who can carry the hopes of a nation and not the selfish aspirations of a politician or a party - statesmanship that is what we need. Possible - yes - but probably - maybe not ... sadly. But what is brewing now if not stopped will destroy everything and sooner than we imagine.

  • Julie - 2012-02-16 15:05

    NEVER ever will I vote for the DA again; I will rather place my vote in the toilet!

      henterkriel - 2012-02-16 15:15

      Since when did the DA actually had a political solution for SA. They are just the alternative party whying about Zuma on the on hand and trying to gain the popular blacj vote on the other hand but no real program

      Gavibear - 2012-02-16 15:16

      You are not alone, they have gone far lately to alienate their white voters. They are fast going the way of the ANC, willing to say anything they can just to get the black vote.

      Mtizozo - 2012-02-16 15:50

      It has never been an alternative at all,,

      JohncarlosBiza - 2012-02-16 16:20

      They are targeting the younger people, the future of the country. It was your generation after all that left us with a political mess. If this country wants to join the modern world, certain things will have to be done differently. You may make great parents, but politically you lack a lot.

      Skhanyo - 2012-02-16 16:48

      ok you know that the DA is right this time. whites stole the land from blacks whether you will vote for DA or not, is not relevant to the facts. Go on and vote for the extinct FF+ but that will not chane the fact that whites stole from us!!

      Vaaldonkie - 2012-02-16 16:56

      If I had to vote for a party other than the FF+, I'd vote IFP.

      Kusleg - 2012-02-16 17:02

      Thank you...vote ANC

      phathuchicos - 2012-02-16 17:37

      lolest

      nthabiseng.priklopil - 2012-02-16 22:56

      Ooh poor Julie, you though they replaced AWB. Good for your future exile vote. It means a win to a derserving party. Keep it up

      Fidel - 2012-02-17 13:01

      Hello porkchops, the DA can afford to alianate white votes if it could attract significant black votes. It's a no brainer, phew........

  • mariuskowie - 2012-02-16 15:06

    DA, you bunch of backstabbing ANC lookalike politicians. Just for once, use your own brains instead of regurgitating ANC hogwash. Address the issues Mr Mulder tabled and prove his facts wrong instead of launching this moronic attack on his interpretation of history.

      mariuskowie - 2012-02-16 15:34

      "great congress movement" Craig, you comment made me laugh aloud.

      John - 2012-02-16 16:53

      Are you a DA supporter out of interest?

  • Muligan - 2012-02-16 15:11

    I'm sure the ANC is loving this tit-for-tat amongst minorities. The more they fight amongst themselves, the stronger the ANC becomes. SO SAD.

  • Shistirrer - 2012-02-16 15:14

    Disappointed, DA! Mr Maimane, Pieter Mulder has the factual history (as opposed to the ANC's propaganda history) 100% correct. Mulder is not "denying" any history, he simply says that any land claims in the Western and Northern Cape should not be allowed. Give that man a Bells, he already has the Balls.

      david.lebethe - 2012-02-16 15:36

      He referred to unpublished expert report, which he didn't trust his audience with its citation and which could either prove that he was lying or he is a plain right coward.

      JohncarlosBiza - 2012-02-16 16:27

      There is always an omission of facts when both sides speak about the land issue. I'd be careful before I call someone's opinion "100% fact". Personally, I don't care anymore what's true and what's not. I just want my country to maximize its agricultural productivity.

      Shistirrer - 2012-02-16 16:44

      @JcB: "I just want my country to maximize its agricultural productivity." Fact: Nearly 100% of "restituted" land has failed as far as agricultural production goes. So you agree then that restitution should not take place unless the recipients have the expertise and wherewithal to conduct productive farming? (Keeping a few cattle for lobola doesn't count).

      JohncarlosBiza - 2012-02-16 17:22

      @Shistirrer That's just common sense. People should love farming and know how to do it before they are handed commercial farms.

      Elle-Black - 2012-02-17 07:31

      What's FActual about what Mulder said, he said it himself "this is according to Afrikaaner history". They will distort historical facts to suite them and they are dillusional,can you trust an Afrikaaner with anything?

  • MoAfrika - 2012-02-16 15:15

    Brown people? news to my ears...

      Martin - 2012-02-16 15:18

      lol, i just heard im apparently pink, wtf

      Martin - 2012-02-16 16:04

      lmfao, a few yrs back pink was the new black bwahaha

      Mercha - 2012-02-16 16:08

      LOL!!! Sounds like something out of the apartheid years.

  • martin.vandermerwe - 2012-02-16 15:21

    Ok so you give then the land and then what?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????still nothing??????????????????????????????????????????????????exactly.....Nothing

  • Hermann - 2012-02-16 15:22

    Is the DA now also going to start living in history instead of moving forward? Makes one wonder.

      Vaaldonkie - 2012-02-16 16:58

      It seems more like they are goiing to live in their own fairy tale.

  • Barefoot - 2012-02-16 15:29

    Brown people? lol let me sit back watch this from the comfort of the screen and chair, no comments, lest i be labelled a racist lol politicians

  • david.lebethe - 2012-02-16 15:33

    His remarks are deeply entrenched in his believe for separate development and super race, which are running deep in his family tree. While I might expect to come from ordinary man in the street, but it was shorking to hear it from a cabinet minister. I am surprised that he is not summoned to explain himself?! In fact, he must just go as he doesn't deserve an honour bestowed upon him by the country.

      Tommy - 2012-02-16 15:46

      They won't summon him, because what he stated was facts. Summoning him will lead to media publicity, which may just reveal to the world some inconvenient truths about historical land ownership. And who's going to feel sorry then for the people who's land has been "stolen", when in fact the land never even belonged to them in the first place.

      Marcus - 2012-02-16 15:47

      Bad troll, try again.

      Mtizozo - 2012-02-16 15:55

      That's why this country will never go any where with people like him.

  • Johan - 2012-02-16 15:33

    For a change Mulder has a point. i dont understand what the DA is on about. He is simply asking for a better detailed analysis of the so called land ownership issues that are currently being presented as "facts".

      Mtizozo - 2012-02-16 15:57

      there is no analysis required, land must be brought back to where it belongs,,scrash the willing buyer willing seller thing, it helps no body,,

      Johan - 2012-02-16 16:19

      The issue is who does the land belong to in a historical context. Mulder calculated 40% should be eligable for redistribution to the bantu - speakers. What is your calculations? You cant just take something without substantiating it?

  • Zion - 2012-02-16 15:38

    How can we argue a case when it is done on an unlevel field? The fact that the Black nations do not have a history cast in concrete gives them a massive advantage because their proofs comes from traditional origins. DrMulder is aware of these facts and all he is doing is levelling the playing field. The question will always orbit The perception of who stole land from who.Who are the villains and who are the victims. That conundrum will haunt South Africans for a long time to come.

  • Senzo - 2012-02-16 15:42

    Because of the greediness of the whites, this country will go to war over land. You watch! How is it possible that in less than 200 years you legitimately own the majority of the land???

      Johan - 2012-02-16 15:49

      No one said the whites are entitled to the majority of the land. Just that the amount of land that should be eligable for redistribution equates to 40%. Simple math.The remaining 60 or so percent should be available to everyone according to Mulders argument. It does make sense in the historical context. And why are so many people so obsessed with owning a farm? It is hard work and does not always guarentee profits. Rather ask the ANC to create more jobs, than long for a farm in the dry Karoo!

      Tommy - 2012-02-16 15:54

      If you are talking hectares, then majority of land belongs to Government, not whites. If you are talking Deeds - then yes, maybe a bit more then the rest of the population (this is changing very fast with the growing black middle-class). You must analyse what you are being told...not everything your government tells you is as simple as it seems.

  • kgatit - 2012-02-16 15:42

    Nkosi sikelel' iAfrika, and not to let any of the above fence-sitters run this country. They were all for DA, before Freedom Front Plus leader's utterances, they spontaneously are for FFP's skewed accounts of history.

      MSGRule - 2012-02-16 15:51

      Really. http://www.southafrica.info/about/history/history.htm

      Johan - 2012-02-16 15:53

      FF+ is a dying party, however their leader has a good point. It is plain simple math. Just a different angle on the landownership issue. Would you really want a farm in an area where nothing but sand grows? Only 13% of South African land is eligable for agricultural purposes anyway? So you really want to opt for the tough life of farming in the Southerm Kalahari?

      kgatit - 2012-02-16 15:56

      Dear MSGRule, well a better source will be http://www.sahistory.org.za/, for your own information...Please you don't even know how trustworthy the web master/editor of that site is...

      MSGRule - 2012-02-16 15:58

      @johan - How much of that land is owned by the government?

      MSGRule - 2012-02-16 16:03

      @kgait - suppose the goverment of the day writes their own history. the first site is no bias and this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_South_Africa the other has too many anc banners on it to be objective sorry

      kgatit - 2012-02-16 16:16

      MSGRule, I guess 'citation' means nothing to you...

      Johan - 2012-02-16 16:22

      MSG - Probably 40%

  • MSGRule - 2012-02-16 15:53

    Why is the government not giving their land to the people. there are millions of hectares lying ununsed along the highways. Has the lessons nto been learnt in neighbouring countires about giving land to people without teaching them how to use it.

  • John - 2012-02-16 15:55

    @Craig I thought the Eskimos also got in on the act somehow?

  • Cassius - 2012-02-16 16:13

    I think Mr. Mulder is being defensive more than anything. Truth of the matter is that Africans are the natives of African Continent and their migration shouldn’t be a topical issue. White people have come from East to South for economic reasons and eventually become settlers in Africa; we should not be diffident about restitution of land. They have colonized Africa with force and when is time to answer their wrong doing we should not be apologetic. It is correct that land is a sensitive topic and it is therefore critical to be addressed as national concern. We must not be caught in between with questions of whether we are nationalizing or not. I am not surprised thou that he is defensive on this matter he was protecting his position as a FFP president since the minority are very much affected on this one considering the imbalance of land ownership. His suggestion that Cyril Ramaphosa and Tokyo Sexwale have massive ownership of the land is outrageous; we have the Oppenheimer and many more that still in control of the land in western and Northern Cape while majority of blacks are without land in their own country of birth. it is gullible of him to assume indirectly that both gentleman are the representatives or the only beneficiaries of wiling seller willing buyer policy.

      Heiku - 2012-02-16 16:23

      This land was taken by force and I'm afraid the only way to take it back is by force so stop complaining on the internet and eat your mieliepap.

      Tommy - 2012-02-16 16:29

      Considering that the whole world population originated from Africa, where do you want to draw a line and say Africa for Africans.

      Skhanyo - 2012-02-16 16:54

      the only we are ever going to take back our land is by force and that is how it was taken from us!!!

      Francois - 2012-02-16 17:07

      Jojo - if the cradle of humankind is close to Pretoria, the land is humankind's. If you follow your logic, you also stole the land and those from who you stole it stole it from others etc until you get to the origin of mankind. Thus like stated, you have to draw a line and that line was drawns for SA in Codesa at 1913. Dont open the whole debate on why the Europeans had taken it so easy or why you have given it away. The peace settlement was 1913 and willing buyer willing seller to get to 30% for PDIs. Then it is done. That is what settlement means. If you want war, you will get it. The majority people of SA in 1994 said that they don't want it and I think they still don't want it. If you don't like the settlement, get a party with more that 75% in parliament and get them to change the constitution. That was also one of the conditions of the settlement or otherwise, go to Zim where they have other settlement rules, but I don't think you will have a computer after the first evening and food every evening - your choice. Either one of the two or shut up.

  • JohncarlosBiza - 2012-02-16 16:23

    I don't get the fascination with farming. I thought it was 2012 and everyone would be emphasizing education? Let good farmers farm.

      Johan - 2012-02-16 16:34

      This is probably the best comment of the day! It does not take years to build a succesfull farm, it takes generations. Let those who are good at it and willing to put in the blood sweat and tears that comes with farming, do their job. The ANC is in charge of the country. Let them create more jobs and better our education.

      joseph.henkeman - 2012-02-16 16:52

      i could not agree with you more, but yet all the land goes to the uneducated fools thats ends up destroying it.

      Skhanyo - 2012-02-16 16:59

      are you tryin to us dt we must forget about the land that was taken from us? well i guess I should have expected that from a man of your calibre&race.. dream on buddy!! we will take back our land it is just a matter of time, and when we do it will be far worse than when you took it from us. Whilst there is a need for education that is no substitute for our land.

      Vaaldonkie - 2012-02-16 17:00

      Yes, we can buy our food from the supermarket now. Who needs farms?

      JohncarlosBiza - 2012-02-16 17:28

      @Sikhanyiso a facepalm for you. @Vaal-Donkie you intentionally misinterpreted my comment(you couldn't have misread it-you once claimed your IQ was 140/160).

  • joseph.henkeman - 2012-02-16 16:32

    hmmm all the facts stated below wheter they true or not (i dont have time to google them all) does not say anything about the land that should be giving to the afrikaans speaking coloured people of this country, maybe we dont matter now, but we sure do matter when it is election time, people/government should start giving the lsnd to the people that can work the land and make a livingout of it what is the use the land is given to a bum, who cant even grow a weed or build a sand castle, if the land is given to black/white/coloured let it be given to black/white/coloured who will be able to let the land feed his or her people, house his/her people, give protection to his/her people. We will argue and throw insults that wont help no-one.

      Johan - 2012-02-16 16:36

      Amen!

  • Alisha - 2012-02-16 16:34

    So the DA are indirectly denying that Nguni tribes have no claim to 40% of the country's land? What a bunch of turn-coats. It is a historical FACT that Nguni tribes (Xhosas) had only settled as far south as the Fish River by 1865. See the proof on this official map in the Swellendam Museum, drawn up by the Dutch in 1865. http://hookingup.co.za/DSC_0056.JPG I wish the liberal DA would stand up for real facts for once, and stop muddying the waters and tacitly supporting the ANC's cocked-up version of history.

      Francois - 2012-02-16 17:15

      No Alisha, the DA are saying that the FF is denying our history. I think you must go and ask our English teaching tax back, as you do not comprehend that lekker. How about you say how big a part of SA KZN and the eastern part of the EC is and then we calculate that percentage - will be interesting. You are also playing with a very dangerous card here called ethnics. If you want to restrain the Nguni speaking people to the places that they have inhabited by 1865, then Gauteng will become a DA stronghold. The facts are 1913 will be taken as the benchmark and 30% of land will be redistributed by means of willing buyer willing seller. The fact that the government takes long, is the government's problem, not the seller's. The fact that the government cannot say what % is transferred is everybody's problem as as long that is not put into a clear fact by government (not the DA), it is a political toy which Zuma likes more than Khoza's daughter.

  • Jenny - 2012-02-16 16:34

    The majority of black people in this country doent know their own history, what they need to do is discuss these issues with the old Indunas in the respective areas and they will note that Shaka did not even feature when the white man had established himself in the Cape, furthermore if they will check their own history they will note that millions of acres of land was signed over to the Boers for helping various Kings to obtain their cattle back from other waring tribes. It is very easy for a number discontent black people to continually claim the land as their own. They need to wake up and smell the roses.

  • Alex - 2012-02-16 16:35

    For a moment, i would like to look at some current information on this Land issue Relatives of mine own a Small farm in Limpopo. This farm and most of the surrounding farms have land claims against them, many of these claims have been resolved. When my family became aware of the land claim against the farm, they investigated various ways to resolve the issue, for all parties. What they discovered was: 1. In most instances where the claim had been resolved, those instituting the claim had CHOSEN monetary compensation for their claim and not to own the land itself. 2. As this was the preferred solution to claims, land ownership was not transferred and therefore the goals of land reform were not being reached. Due to this, and the government running out of funds for land reform, this process was stopped. 3. As in England, a 99 year lease option was introduced. The individuals with valid claims would own the land and would lease it indefinitely to the current occupants. I cannot comment on the success of this and how many claims were settled in this manner. 4. My relatives felt that they would like to lease the land from the community claiming it. They had the land, buildings, and infrastructure of the farm valued and approached the necessary parties with the proposal. 6 years later, there has been no response from the community claiming the land or the department. (I have run out of characters :) )

      Johan - 2012-02-16 16:41

      Exactly - what about the thousands of monetary claims that have been resolved? Is that even included in the calculations.

      joseph.henkeman - 2012-02-16 16:45

      who does the calculations anyway? are those calculations avalaible for all to see cause i think i need to claim some land of someone as well!!!

  • Mike - 2012-02-16 16:37

    Mulder - you behave like An Inkomzai Sour Milk Cow-with a Red Bantana on its head and a full teet breast.Whites in SA should never lie that they originallyb are from Africa, for Africa in originally for dark skinned Africans not the pink and blonde long noseies.

  • phathuchicos - 2012-02-16 16:38

    people can be stupid sometimes...the fact that one group was living another part of the country doesn't mean the own unoccupied space also. The fact is the Khoi where in their Karoo region in peace and the the decendent of niger-congo came to the unoccupied savannah region of South Africa. The problem is with those who displaced and divided the comminuties that were starting to fuse instead of seeking their own terriotory that is not occupied. I don't have any record of any unoccupied place that a white man discovered in South Africa. In Capes they wiped the khois and suppressed the xhosas, north west they tried but failed, transvaal success in dividing sothos vendas and tsongas, natal success due to the pathetic zulu king dingaan. The only place that a white can claim in SA is the Karoo desert.

      sonet.vd.westhuizen - 2012-02-16 17:36

      And exactly how did the colored come about?, or do you think they were imported from else where? If you go learn history you will find that the Khoi & San were civilized by the settlers who ALSO married and had children with them. It was NOT only Whites who killed the Khoisan, Koisan attacked Whites, stole their belongings in raids etc. Different tribes were ALWAYS killing each other!.. Hell BROTHERS killed each other just to become Kings and leaders of their tribes!!

  • Mike - 2012-02-16 16:41

    Land is still going fallow in Zimbabwe becoz when the white man had it he used it to abuse Africans, sjambok them, murder and injure at will.Then the land was taken and now they are beginning to think clear about their mistakes - what brutish fellows we have on this earth!

  • Alex - 2012-02-16 16:45

    Cont... 5. The community with the claim are in fact from Mozambique and had never own the land. They have worked on the the for a period of several months. 6. The claims where ownership was transferred, much of this land stands vacant and unused. In one incident, the new owners moved onto their farm, lived there for a month or so. Once the electricity and water had been cut off due to lack of payment, they moved off the farm and it now stands vacant and unused. In another incident, the new owners lived on the land, and off it until the established resources where finished, at which point they left the land and it's remains vacant and unused. My family's neighbor entered into negotiations regarding their claim. They were happy to sell the land. However, those claiming it wanted them to remain on the land, continue managing the farm and orchid for them, for free. People are willing to sell their land and reach agreements on claims. However the department and claiming communities are often not taking steps to reach a solution.

  • Alisha - 2012-02-16 16:52

    The amount of News34 censorship on this thread going on is insane. People's opposing views are being deleted. So the DA are indirectly denying that Nguni tribes have no claim to 40% of the country's land? What a bunch of turn-coats. It is a historical FACT that Nguni tribes (Xhosas) had only settled as far south as the Fish River by 1865. See the proof on this official map in the Swellendam Museum, drawn up by the Dutch in 1865. http://hookingup.co.za/DSC_0056.JPG I wish the liberal DA would stand up for real facts for once, and stop muddying the waters and tacitly supporting the ANC's cocked-up version of history.

      joseph.henkeman - 2012-02-16 16:54

      isnt the truth alwayse being censored you can hide many things but you cant hide or distort the truth!

      Skhanyo - 2012-02-16 17:02

      you do not know what you are talking about maan. you are just a beautiful girl with no facts, that is what you are! stay away from politics plz

  • Vaaldonkie - 2012-02-16 16:54

    I note the DA's statement with a mixture of surprise and horror. How's that scene in animal farm go with the pigs looking like humans and the humans like pigs?

      joseph.henkeman - 2012-02-16 16:57

      carefull they might remove your comment cause its true!!

      joseph.henkeman - 2012-02-16 17:01

      The pigs elevate themselves to positions of leadership and set aside special food items, ostensibly for their personal health. - hmmm the rich getting richer

      Vaaldonkie - 2012-02-16 17:02

      Big brother is watching ;)

      Peter - 2012-02-16 17:05

      @Joseph. Explain how it is true?

  • phathuchicos - 2012-02-16 17:14

    Dear who ever is dictating this forum...you can delete the truth so that others may not open their minds from nonsense that they are being fed. May God open your mind and see right and wrong so that you may not mislead this fragile country in the brink of a racial war.

  • sibusiso.kuzwayo - 2012-02-16 17:29

    This s some BS. How did settlers get the land in the first place? U ppl r only talk in about WC, wat about the rest of SA? The Nguni ppl (the next time u call a black person Bantu u better b in parliament, never in public) inhabited most of the southern tip of Africa long before any settlers arrived, as did BaSotho, baTswana, vaVhenda, etc. The Caucasian population came from elsewhere and thru years of state sponsored oppression, repression and extortion; came to own all of Africa, not jus western Cape. No one ask the indigenous population nicely, there was no willing buyer/seller principle, no real negotiations. People were swindled and killed off the land of their ancestors. An artificial dependence on the settler population by the indegineous tribes was enforced over centuries in rural SA. That dependence still exists, to the continuing detriment of our collective society, and must be redressed, as soon as possible.

      Tommy - 2012-02-16 19:32

      Some guy named Piet Retief asked nicely and got killed for asking nicely.

      sibusiso.kuzwayo - 2012-02-16 20:52

      That one guy! For every 1 guy u can claim I could show you hundreds of families! Whole generations of a ppl deprived of a means to improve their lives. Deliberately, actively, completely. GTFOHWTBS! This government of communists and corrupt morons as u would have us believe has actively, deliberately, completely insisted on not taking the land the way it was taken from the majority, most of whom are still poor! I bet u Piet Ritief's kids are still sitting pretty wherever they are. Ppl please!

      Tommy - 2012-02-17 11:15

      Are you sure you were a majority then. What if there were more Europeans in South Africa at that stage. Remember, the census of (i think 1910) place the white population & black populations very close together regards to numbers. Now consider when Retief was killed. Just because some people bred faster, doesn't mean they were a majority then.

  • Morama - 2012-02-16 20:51

    The comments are full of denialists!!! Either you like it or not,DA which the majority pretends to be supporting are simply against it in at this point....please understand politics and DA is on the rite direction of convincing majority to vote them...Keep it up DA we are behind you unlike the majority of this site that always comments on racial lines,denying the truth just simply cz is from ANC.I wish they can grow up and smell the coffee!!!

  • Morama - 2012-02-16 20:56

    I am full DA member but with the stupid racists fake DA members on this site i opt to go against their opinions and comments as they are not true reflection of what my party is standing for....wake up!!!

  • Corne - 2012-02-16 23:57

    All DA supporters should take note. On this issue of land the DA took sides with Zuma and the ANC. As the old Nedbank advertisement always said "It makes you think !! "

  • Fidel - 2012-02-17 13:05

    Will Mr Mulder concede the land to the Khoi and the San if they so demanded? Nothing but cheap political caricature to whip the jelly brained into an orgy of hyperbolic righteous indugnation.

  • Fidel - 2012-02-17 13:10

    There's an awful lot of Afrophobia mixed with colonial thinking in many of these comments.. This is land is controlled by whites because their forbearers were efficient murderers. The liberation struggles in both South Africa and Zimbabwe was about land. The panic at the back of Mulder's mind is that black toleration of white domination is coming to an end. Mugabe had the front to challenge wealthy white landowners who exploited the local population. If any whites are mystified as to why Mugabe remains so popular among black South Africans, there is your reason. If this admission of reality makes people sick in the head, then you're entitled to your opinion.

  • Nlgga - 2012-02-17 13:34

    Since Most Xhosa people are mixed with Khoi San, will white "Pepul" give us the land as they argue it belongs to the Khoi san?? I doubt they would be willing to do that..

  • bonnita.hill - 2012-02-21 13:54

    It is an historical fact that only brown people lived in the Cape. It is also a fact that they are being marginalised now, as they were under Apartheid - too black then, too white now! But to link this to demands that blacks be excluded on that basis, is amoral. This country belongs to all of us and it is crucial that we forge an equitable land reform policy which will provide in the needs of an expanding population.

  • bonnita.hill - 2012-02-21 14:16

    @Francois - Feb 16. Read : New History of SA by Giliomee and Mbengu - it'll answer many of your questions: The Bantu peoples came down from Congo, Cameroon, Niger BC in waves, and settled at different times all over, down south and east. The Suthu are descendants of those who settled in Tanzania. The Nguni speakers settled along the Eastern border, but were only welded into a 'Zulu' nation by Shaka 1818 - 1828. The 'Xhosa' (name of a clan, by the way as is Zulu)bumped up against the Settlers only in 1770 west of the Fish river. There were no Bantu in what is now the Cape Province. The Xhosa and settlers lived in peace until competition for pasture increased. Old story: overpopulation!!!!

  • bonnita.hill - 2012-02-21 14:32

    @Nkulekweni. Read: New History of SA by Giliomee and Mbenga. Your claim that you have Khoisan blood, is shared by many white S.Afs as well. There were few white women in the Cape and men need women. 7% of Afrikaners have a brown ancestor - Ingrid Jonker (poet) is one of them. By the way, the hunter gatherers spoke v. different variants of a shared language with at least nine clicks, of which only the Nguni speakers retain a few.

  • bonnita.hill - 2012-02-21 14:58

    @Sikhanyiso Jojo. The land (as all land by invaders & colonisers) was not 'stolen'. It was won by the gun, and traded with beads, and cattle (as in the case of Retief who returned, by the way, not just the 300 stolen by Sekonyela but thousands more, to Dingane in exchange for the land promised him). Since the advent of human rights (United Nations Charter 1948)it is taken by the ballot box. History is being reviewed through the prism of human rights now and we must be very wary of reading it out of context. By the very same token one can accuse black people of being 'colonisers' and 'stealing' the land from those who had inhabited it prior to their arrival from Congo, Niger, Cameroon. If the truth be known, we are ALL colonisers - people move due to hunger and population expansion. Point is: we must unite and make it work for all S.Africans.

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