News24

No abandoning land reform, Mantashe says

2012-02-20 22:24

Johannesburg - Dropping the land reform question from the government's agenda would be betraying the ANC's history, the party's general secretary Gwede Mantashe said on Monday.

Transformation should be an ongoing topic as it was of historic importance to the liberation movement, he said in Johannesburg at the launch of a book on the ANC's centenary, Unity in Diversity: 100 Years of ANC Leadership.

"The dialogue must continue. It is happening and is catching fire every day."

The issue should not only be entertained by "a monopoly of sections of society".

Mantashe said the party's year-long centenary celebrations helped South Africans to "re-engage" in dialogue.

He said Freedom Front Plus leader Pieter Mulder was trying to rewrite history by suggesting in Parliament last week that black "Bantu-speaking" people had no historical claim to 40% of the country.

Mantashe said the first war of resistance was fought in 1659 by the Khoi and the San people.

"He [Mulder] believes the genocide that followed that war left no Khoi and San people... He believes there were no people left."

Mantashe emphasised the importance of the ANC centenary in educating South Africans, saying "a nation that doesn't know its history is like a tree that doesn't blossom".

He hailed former ANC leaders for instilling the importance of education in black people through establishing education institutions.

"They played a role of providing Africans with intellectual capacity. I can see and feel it in the history of the ANC."

He urged people to buy the book, costing R250 a copy, as it was an important "historical tool". ANC treasurer Mathews Phosa handed the first copy to former president Nelson Mandela last month.

Comments
  • Chris - 2012-02-20 22:35

    The ANC is getting MIGHTY defensive about Mulder's claims, how about some independant researchers are employed to actually investigate this issue? We have no problem pissing a hundred million into the wind for an ANCYL party, surely we can come up with the money to research this vital part of history to take us forward as a country? By the way, with "independant researcher" I don't have Zuma's third cousin winning a tender to write up a load of S^*& in mind, but rather academics held in high esteem by their peers in their respective fields internationally.

      Koos - 2012-02-20 23:01

      Will never happen.

      Ian - 2012-02-20 23:03

      Let aas reefom de land......froom prodaktiv to non-prodaktiv!

      Farta - 2012-02-20 23:26

      @Chris, The ANC won't do it because it would only reveal the truth.

      Geronimo - 2012-02-20 23:43

      Very true, the ANC are extreeeeeeemely defensive about Mulder's comments... What is a fact is that the Bantu people are trespassers in this land just as much as the white folk are... That is a FACT. They walked south from central/western Africa and displaced the Khoi/San. There may have been Khoi/San in the Western Cape when the Dutch arrived, but that's because the Bantu had pushed them to the very furthest corner of the African continent. The Bantu had not reached the Western Cape by 1652. Fact.

      thozi - 2012-02-20 23:43

      @Chris I have a different take on land. I'm not concerned about Dr Mulder's assertions, nor the retort by the ANC & Co that followed. All I need is land that belongs to all South Africans who can work the land to produce food, feed the nation and care for it. I want to see South Africans succeed in mining and creating job opportunities, not enslaving the poor and starving them, while forcing large steaks into their bloted bodies, donating millions of Rands to useless political celebrations. I also want to know that when I talk of South Afrcans, I mean just that - ALL the citizens of our country. I want to see us moving away from the suicidal paths of Mugabe and his ilk, overcoming our stereotype prejudices and defeating our racial fears and hatred. Oh, what a dream! Did I have to wake up?

      Marcell - 2012-02-21 00:40

      Thozi, it is not to the benefit of the ruling party to have a UNITED SA. Disunity keeps them in the pound seats.

      SiphoMalele - 2012-02-21 01:31

      If I am president, I will end military conscription and the Laws of Gravity will no longer apply in SA! Vote Sipho for President!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Antebellum - 2012-02-21 02:31

      I think the term that gets thrown around the most by South African politicians is the word "TRANSFORMATION" Can anyone please give me a definitive explanation of what this actually means?(In the context that the ANC uses it) I've never heard anyone define it, ever. From what I've gathered (from every scenario that they have used it in) it essentially means whites out, blacks in.

      SiphoMalele - 2012-02-21 04:44

      What came first - the struggle, or the revolution? Many politicians are no longer struggling - just revolting.

      SiphoMalele - 2012-02-21 04:54

      If I remember my grade 12 textbooks well, Peter Mokaba always said, "One settler, one farm". So all settlers who took land from the Khoi-San - that is the Bantus, the Brits, the Boers - may now divide the spoils of war. (I think I got a distinction for African History at school)

      John - 2012-02-21 05:39

      @ Geronimo. ACTUAL FACT: In around 1750, a whole hundred years after the founding of the Cape Settlement(1652), White met Black formally for the first time ever, near where Port Elizabeth is today. Those "blacks"(no racial meaning) were Xhosas their homeland was Nigeria. FACT

      Renny - 2012-02-21 07:16

      Stop messing about and use that money to manage the bloody government departments properly. There is already about 40 kids in my sons grade 1 class, some extra classes or schools. What about the the public transport system or the bankrupt hospitals in Mpumalanga. You have to admit as a government you guys suck & I don't care what colour you are.

      Hugh - 2012-02-21 08:28

      The ANC are good at reinventing the wheel. We have a small taste of their capacity to tell half truth.

      psebetlela - 2012-02-21 11:54

      @JohnB & any1 bearing reference to 1600 & 1700 yrs bk...have you considered the FACT dt de same ppl who wrote dt history deliberately left out important info to potray blacks as seconders and nt deserving?

      Mattewis - 2012-02-21 13:58

      They may be getting mighty defensive, but what is true is that dropping the so-called land reform will betray their history of bar bombings, church & golf club shootings, necklacings, torture camps, farm murders, etc.! These GenocideWatch people are just spreading "mischievous" lies!

      oscar.manamela - 2012-02-21 13:59

      People like you really like holding on like a dog to a meatless bone ne, OK let say you are right, but what did your idiot mulder get his facts , maybe clarify that before youe question the responce by Zuma or the ANCYL who had nothing to do with what mulder said

      richard.hipkin - 2012-02-21 15:27

      New settlers were black and white In fact, the whole country had actually belonged to the San and the Nama or Khoikhoin for centuries (Khoisan is the collective name for these two groups). They were equally “non-black” and “non-white”. Over a long time, Bantu-speaking nations migrated from central Africa southwards and the Khoisan communities were driven away, exterminated and absorbed. From 1652, Van Riebeeck and his successors also fought the remaining Khoisan communities in the south and decimated their numbers. In addition, diseases overwhelmed the original nomadic occupants of South Africa. So, in effect, both black and white were actually colonialists and new settlers.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-02-21 15:28

      Occupation patterns Now let’s examine the occupation patterns of these new settlers. South Africa covers an area of 1 219 090km². Historically, not a single Zulu, Tswana, Basotho, Pedi or Swazi resided in the Western Cape and few Xhosas were to be found in the northeastern region. The Western Cape has a surface area of 129 386km², which is 10,6% of South Africa. In the Northern Cape, no Zulu, Xhosa, Basotho, Pedi or Swazi was to be found and very few Tswanas. The province covers 361 830km² or 29,7% of South Africa. What all this ultimately means is that black tribes did not have historical residence in 40% of the country and our borders are not even a century old. Regarding the other 60%, we are faced with contradictions. The Voortrekkers occupied areas where, at the time of the Great Trek, there were no settled black communities.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-02-21 15:28

      The Free State and Transvaal were largely uninhabited back then, especially in the aftermath of the Mfecane genocide which was launched by black tribes against other black tribes. These two Boer republics were under threat from England and not from black tribes. In fact, there were several agreements made with black chiefs to recognise borders and promote good neighbourly relations. But in Natal and the Eastern Cape, things were different. There Britain ruled. At the time, the Boers of the two republics and the Colony of the Cape of Good Hope occupied 60% of South Africa. Historically, the Tswana, Basotho, Pedi, Swazi, Shangana, Tsonga and Venda did not occupy more than 40% of the land in these provinces, that is 15,3% of the whole country. And even if they had occupied 60% , it would have only been 22,9% of the whole country.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-02-21 15:29

      If the colonial powers hadn’t carved Africa into pieces, the Tswana of North West and the Tswana of Botswana would have occupied one huge country. KwaZulu-Natal comprises 7,6% of South Africa. If we were to accept that the Zulus can claim 85% of this area, it’s still a mere 6,5% of South Africa. The Eastern Cape comprises 13,9% of the country. If we accept that the Xhosa can lay claim to 85% of it, this amounts to 11,8% of the country. So from a historical perspective, this leaves us with 15,3% + 6,5% + 11,8% = 33,6%. Or 22,9% + 6,5% + 11,8% = 41,2%. And what percentage of the best agricultural land is occupied by blacks today, including their traditional tribal land? Obviously much more than 41,2%. It’s easy to deny historical facts, but these facts can’t be erased.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-02-21 15:30

      Tribal land and expropriation A very important, often-overlooked aspect of land reform applies to the vast areas occupied by traditional tribes. Whites, coloureds and Indians don’t have such tribal areas, compared to millions of blacks who enjoy privileges in theirs such as being exempt from taxes. Questions which remain unanswered, are: what is the yield/ha in the tribal areas? How many employment opportunities are created there? What do the income tax proceeds amount to? Is land tax levied there? What are the expenses in terms of education and health care? Who pays these expenses? Who are the beneficiaries? Can agricultural units be surveyed and allocated to skilled black farmers, who’ll be able to use them as security to obtain capital for agricultural activities? In terms of the proposed expropriation legislation, will it be possible to expropriate tribal land in the public interest and how will its value be determined? Percentage claims (or the quota occupancy) must also be subject to a proper analysis of, for example, rainfall, pasture carrying capacity, arability, distance from markets, etc.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-02-21 15:31

      Land reform White farmers aren’t opposed to this country having more black farmers, but it’s imperative to ensure that they have the necessary skills and capital and that their farms don’t end up being sold, rented, unproductive or squatter camps. The decisive point in our negotiations of 1990 to 1994 was when we jointly realised that we needed each other to bring about prosperity for all of our people. And just as in the case of affirmative action, white and black need each other to conclude land reform successfully.A country which can’t feed its own people faces problems. The proposed Expropriation Bill is unconstitutional and instead of contributing to the welfare of black South Africans, blacks will eventually pay the highest price. Zimbabwe is a tragic example of this. Within ANC ranks voices have been heard saying, “We can’t all be Mandelas.” We can, however, all emulate Mandela’s legacy of reconciliation, tolerance, equal opportunities for all and the upliftment of the poor in a fair and effective manner. I am convinced that blacks will agree that we need each other to ensure that black farmers become successful. It’s also in the interest of white farmers, because then we can feed our people together.

      nchukana - 2012-02-22 12:07

      You are a lunatic Chris. Jealous down

  • maseratifittipaldi - 2012-02-20 22:47

    This is interesting. If I remember well, Jan van Riebeeck and myself landed at the Waterfront in 1652. By 1659, it was still only me and him and a few mates who came to help us plant carrots and grapes. I remember no massacre. We were too busy trying to produce our own food. I did hear, however, that there were plenty of Koi-San people in Kwa-Zulu Natal and the Eastern Cape when Jan and myself came to the Cape, but they disappeared somehow. Perhaps they did not like the way these provinces were being run by the ANC.

      Antebellum - 2012-02-21 02:48

      I'm sure the San-bushmen (who still live in Kalahari) would find it interresting to know that they do not exist anymore, that they are a figments of white people's imaginations. I suppose this solves a few problems for the ANC. 1. It lets them move up a rank in the "who was here first?" debate. Since the people who held the first place no longer "exist". 2. They do not have to deal with the nasty fact that their forefathers had hunted these poor people like animals to near extinction. 3. An since these people do not exist, land claims by them can be ignored or clasified as a "gimmick" just like the Botswana government.

      Joe - 2012-02-21 10:07

      ANC and their supporters accuse other people of exactly what they are guilty of. They distort the truth. They onveniently & selectively focus on only the items that forward their agenda. As a start here is an interesting observation - Shaka annihilated almost 2 million people. Yet this government names an international airport and a marine facility after him. This following link details wars, armed conflicts & genocides (world wide). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll On the flip side of the coin everything to do with the name Verwoerd needs to be changed. This is one of the many examples of how the truth is conveniently ignored. Although Apartheid and its evils are an abomination, the truth is the more you objectively start researching this topic the more you realise what an over exaggeration of facts took place. This government is so pre-occupied with the past that they are of no use in the present. This obsession is busy backfiring. I for one have always believed in most of the statements. I always thought that white people in this country did blacks a great injustice. Although this is true for a small % of whites, the truth is that most white people had and still have a spirit of reconciliation. This is however busy changing, more people are busy researching this topic and sympathy is on the decline, while anger is growing.It is all over the internet from objective international sources. Mulder is correct!

      Max - 2012-02-22 10:49

      R250 for propaganda BULSH%T. I'd rather buy a bottle of BELLS thank you very much.

  • Corne - 2012-02-20 22:53

    I am amazed at what mr Mantashe claims. Pieter Mulder never said that there was no-one residing in the western and northern cape. He never said that. Its nonsens to claim that he said certain things and then try to attack that

      Koos - 2012-02-20 23:03

      Guess Mantashe was misquoted.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-02-21 15:35

      I often wonder if his bottom teeth will come flying out...

  • Mark - 2012-02-20 22:53

    Khoi and San people are not Bantu in terms of ethnicity, Mr. Mantashe.

      Koos - 2012-02-20 23:05

      Guess that depends on how the ANC feels that day.

      Marcell - 2012-02-20 23:23

      Yip, the San an Khoi just want to live on their own, very simular to the whiteys of today. But then the bantu came along and didn't like that idea. Now they are feeling all left out as they don't have the mental capacity to build something out of nothing. The only capability they do have is to create nothing out of something.

      Fidel - 2012-02-20 23:40

      Since when are you elected spokes person for the Khoi and San. Both the Khoi and San are African, which is a lot more than I can say for you lot.

      Piet - 2012-02-21 00:04

      Fidel i am glad not be branded an african if I see how you lot behave day to day....

      Merven - 2012-02-21 07:25

      That is like coloureds been too 'white' to enjoy the spoils of the New SA, but 'black' enough to vote for the ANC.

      Jomah - 2012-02-21 08:20

      Fidel, go burn down a mine outside Rustenburg with the rest of your Bantu horde you idiot!

      richard.hipkin - 2012-02-21 15:36

      If you speak to a Khoisan you will see they hate white and black people equally, we both are colonialists and thieves in their eyes... Black people just have a hard time accepting that they too stole the land.

  • maseratifittipaldi - 2012-02-20 23:12

    A good idea to settle this argument: Mulder must bring all the scripts supporting his version and Mantashe must bring all the scripts supporting his version. ( I am talking of scripts written at the time).

      Fidel - 2012-02-20 23:43

      You're in danger of becoming a reactionary caricature - is the any right wing cause that you won't leap to the defence of?

      Piet - 2012-02-21 00:05

      Well just show us your cities....oh yes off course they where destroyed and burned to the ground

      Phillie - 2012-02-21 00:13

      Now please somebody explain whattf Fidel is trying to say, he is just as incoherent in his written language as Gwede in his spoken language

      maseratifittipaldi - 2012-02-21 00:15

      Fidel : You should know. One cannot fly with one wing. If the right wing breaks, what will be left? What is left and what is right today, anyway? Right has no name, and what is left is shame.

      Kevin - 2012-02-21 05:59

      Mantashe still has to have his written

      barabus2012 - 2012-02-21 10:11

      @Fidel - i see you have learnt all the important words from your leader... 'reactionary... right wing...' Go be a victim elsewhere. Has it ever occured to you that you, as a sheep, drink all the vile rhetoric that your leaders spew forth?Has it ever occured to you that all their leadership style come from pole pots '101 on Communism', specifically the propoganda chapter? Speak a lie often enough and the masses will believe it.

  • Marcell - 2012-02-20 23:18

    "He hailed former ANC leaders for instilling the importance of education in black people through establishing education institutions." Liberation before education. Somehow this guy got his facts all mixed up.

  • Getafix - 2012-02-20 23:18

    VOTE DA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Corne - 2012-02-20 23:39

      No Getafix - not so easy. The DA in a statement supports the ANC and Pres Zuma on this issue.

      Ben - 2012-02-21 09:17

      Let the D.A. then come out loud and clear and make themselves heard. I dont want to vote for the wrong party.

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-02-21 23:08

      I see us voting for the FF+ at this rate...'-)

  • Fidel - 2012-02-20 23:42

    Is mulder and his supporters willing to concede land to the Khoi and San if they so demanded?

      SarelJBotha - 2012-02-21 08:17

      No need to, the Khoi and San also never owned any land. The were people who moved around all the time and never laid claim of ownership to any land for that matter. How on earth those few people could 'OWN" the whole Cape province is beyond me.

      Felix - 2012-02-21 08:19

      Are you?

      Fidel - 2012-02-21 08:36

      @Sarel You see how mulder's assertions are stupid and neanderthal then.

      betsy.compaan - 2012-02-21 08:39

      I think you need to direct this question at the ANC. Mulder and his supporters are not in charge the ANC is. Thought you would know that

      barabus2012 - 2012-02-21 10:16

      @fidel - the question is not whether Mulders supporters will concede the land, but rather, will the bantu's also accept it? After all, they believe its theirs...

      barabus2012 - 2012-02-21 10:30

      @fidel 'You see how mulder's assertions are stupid and neanderthal then.' Sounds exactly like what the anc are claiming. So i guess one is more neanderthal than the next. But which is more primitive than the next?

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-02-21 23:17

      I would. I found remnants of their cave dwellings - mussels and carving implements - when an entire hillside washed away. Since this must have happened thousands of years ago, and there is no mention of the Khoi in the Eastern Cape - the Xhosa should pay compensation. Do you catch my drift? This entire argument is a waste of time.

  • Nkosinathi - 2012-02-20 23:56

    Mulder as party of government serving as a deputy minster of agriculture fisheries and land affairs displayed utter foolishness by his speech. It was my view that he was considered for that position because ANC wanted reconcilliation and as it is very clear and accepted that Afrikaaners play a pivotary role in farming therefore the land issue was to be handled in a responsible manner by roping withing this delicate matter of land by involving them. That was uncalled for and I wonder whether FF Plus does not ever consider that it must shape itself as a party not for minority but a party that can win the hearts people, not one group of people, more like what DA is trying to do. Land is someting that must be carefully handled with sober minds, if handled recleskless that can mark the end of democracy and reconcilliation. It boggles my ming when I think of the genocide of Herero and Namaqua under general Lothar von Trotha. Pieter Mulder will have to start reading before he breath his acid speehes to the nation. I still believe in reconcilliation, democracy and the rule of law. Lessons must be learnt just on our door steps Mugabe has disaterously reddressed land that calminated in complete collapse of his country. I call upon both black and whites with brain tostart debating like citizen on one country with an aim of addressing and reddressing successful a thorn issue.

      Piet - 2012-02-21 00:02

      Well then please do it in the contest of history...nobody never got any land for free, somebody albeit it be government demanded payment. Even if land is leased like in Moz you still have to pay. Black people always think white people got everything for nothing during apartheid. Well i would like to tell you that income tax was a shocker during those days. If you want it, buy it!!!

      Daniel - 2012-02-21 06:01

      It is the good fortune of democracy, that minority groups can pull together to have their voice heard. Currently the ANC has an outright majority (shrinking every day) and party members believe they need not listen to minority groups. A democracy without diversity is a contradiction

      SarelJBotha - 2012-02-21 08:19

      I think he spoke the truth as he understands it and that is what distinguishes real leaders from the rest. Why is the ANC so dead set against a proper, independant land audit? The answer is simple: The know it will show something that does not suit them: THE TRUTH. The same goes for history.

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-02-21 09:23

      @ Nkosinathi. I agree with some of your points, but I also know that one have to provide hard facts before calling some-one else's statement "foolish". I prefer that one speaks his mind. It makes it easier to prove him/her wrong or convince him to your own point of view. Putting a statement/point on the table is the basis of good discussions. From there one can progress, but one can't when some-one do not make himself clear and do the egg-dance to please all while buying time to rip benefits through dark motives. Let's at least see this as a starting point. I still believe we must not allowed history to pull us in too much because we can loose focus on the future.

      oscar.manamela - 2012-02-21 14:03

      aah Finaly someone with some sense, Thank you Nkosinathi, White think we are stupid and dont know our history, Its a shame that there a few blacks who are ashamed of themselves here, Viva black power and history

  • Marcell - 2012-02-21 00:07

    Are the book in all 11 languages? Gwede, why do you think your supporters would like to read(Yip, those that went through the education provided bu your ANC) why the are still struggling after a 100 years? I don't think they need to read it, they are experiencing it on a daily basis or are you more interested in the 250 mandelas?

  • MastersVoice - 2012-02-21 00:18

    Mulder, just like Zuma, Gwede, Zille and all the other so-called "leaders" will say anything their support base would want to hear. Actions speak louder than words, and the ANC regime have not being doing to well on most counts. In fact, I'd say they're worse than the NP regime! At least they (the Nats) took care of their own (at the cost of everyone else), but the Zuma so-called "government" is only looking after themselves. So when the ANC call for more land reforms, I can only imagine the outcome...

      Marcell - 2012-02-21 00:45

      Yip, the Nats gave us an education and if my fellow citizen did not burn the schools down they to would have got an education, albeit not as good as mine(maybe), but a lot better than what they are getting now.

  • Charles - 2012-02-21 00:21

    @ Rustic, who is a Bantu? How different is a Bantu from a Khoi/San? Are these all Africans or not? Who curved up Africa into small territories (countries) with artificial borders? Were it the Bantu, Khoi or San and when were these borders imposed on them? Who wrote the history of the Bantu/Khoi/San? I suppose it is only fair for us on earth to write the history of the inhabitants of Mars and profess to know everything about them.

      Marcell - 2012-02-21 00:52

      San: The indigenous people of Southern Africa, whose territory spans most areas of South Africa, Zimbabwe, Lesotho, Mozambique, Swaziland, Botswana, Namibia, and Angola, are variously referred to as Bushmen, San, Sho, Barwa, Kung, or Khwe. These people were traditionally hunter-gatherers, part of the Khoisan group and are related to the traditionally pastoral Khoikhoi. Starting in the 1950s, and lasting through the 1990s, they switched to farming as a result of government-mandated modernization programs as well as the increased risks of a hunting and gathering lifestyle in the face of technological development. There is a significant linguistic difference between the northern Bushmen living between Okavango (Botswana) and Etosha (Namibia), extending into southern Angola on the one hand and the southern group in the central Kalahari towards the Molopo, who are the last remnant of the extensive autochthonous San of South Africa. Historical evidence shows that certain Bushmen communities have always lived in the desert regions of the Kalahari.

      Marcell - 2012-02-21 01:03

      cont.. Between the 14th and 15th centuries, Bantu-speaking states began to emerge in the Great Lakes region in the savannah south of the Central African rainforest. On the Zambezi river, the Monomatapa kings built the famous Great Zimbabwe complex, a civilization whose origins and ethnic affiliations are uncertain. From the 16th century onward, the processes of state formation amongst Bantu peoples increased in frequency. This was probably due to denser population (which led to more specialized divisions of labor, including military power, while making emigration more difficult); to increased interaction amongst Bantu-speaking communities with Chinese, European, Indonesian and Arab traders on the coasts; to technological developments in economic activity; and to new techniques in the political-spiritual ritualization of royalty as the source of national strength and health.

      Tony - 2012-02-21 01:21

      I fully support you Charles. We need answers for these pertinent questions.

      MastersVoice - 2012-02-21 04:22

      Good comment Charles. The borders were not artificial simply because they were carved out by colonialists. Borders are carved out either due to geographical features, e.g. rivers, lakes and mountains, or areas of control. Both of these are artificial, because the concept of a border is man-made and the criteria used in Africa was consistent with the way Africans themselves would have used at the time. We all know the real spoils of victory is who gets to write the history. There is no such thing as the "real", "true" or "proper" history. It is always clouded by some form of purpose (e.g. "I want to expose the real history of the Khoi as seen by them"). We can debate history till the cows come home and never agree, because we have different points of view or backgrounds. So when the issue of Land Reforms is raised, it is done so on an acceptance that historically this land belonged to a specific race of group of people, and that it was taken from them unlawfully. I believe the real question should be "who introduced the principle of land ownership to Africa?". I doubt it was the Khoi. I doubt they ever saw land as something that is owned. The colonialists certainly did, and so did various tribal Bantu. If we had to reform land ownership along these lines, we'd probably end up with a racially separated state, with the White "colonialists" in the South and the black Bantu to the North. We'd have to kick some groups out, because they were not around at that time.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-02-21 14:55

      @Charles, a few hundred years ago if you were a Xhosa and you wandered into Zulu territory you were killed... Who made that border?

  • brett.macdonald1 - 2012-02-21 01:28

    Start with pople like Malema, who through ANC inside knowledge buy plots up for redistribution, mark up the price, then frustrate the process...

  • Fidel - 2012-02-21 01:33

    Whilst mulder and his supporters want to debate the issue of the WC, the government should in the interim disposses all land in other provinces where European immigrants found Africans'presence without any compensation. We should then wait for the Khoi and the San to demand "their" land in WC.

      Leroy - 2012-02-21 07:39

      you will remain poor and powerless with a attitude like this, you can take back the land, but please its not your land and its not the ANC's! This is the peoples land, we all have a right to live on it! You and your Struggling(aka life) comrades will always struggle ne?

      chwama.mahlulo - 2012-02-21 08:11

      To some point I agree with you Fidel. My take is, ANC leaders of today are having different agenda than what they are mandated by their voters. I say this simply because of our forever call of (Mayibuye I Africa) this statement alone tells those that always raise their right hand in every ANC gathering when they shout (Amandla ngawethu- Ilizwe lelethu) but those who represent us are not saying this to those that stole our mother land by forcefully remove us, Instead, anyone can see that, their main concern is to attract as many white voters as they can, just for the news papers and the world to view them as peaace makers at our own cost. carry on ANC to try and win a Nobel peace price at the expense of those who were brutally murdered by these colonisers for just their God given land. You don't have to be a spy for a foreign gorvenment to be a trator. Anyway, the strugle is about one's stomack and business recognition.

      Fidel - 2012-02-21 08:35

      @Leroy Mulder is stupid and so are you. You se how daft his comment is if it were to be applied to the whole country. Stop digging up a hornets'nest!

      elemental777 - 2012-02-21 17:42

      I would love you to F..king try that my friend(NOT). Be very careful about what you start as my dad always told me

      Lungani - 2012-02-21 18:05

      @chwarma.Mahlulo...You should have remained in Zimbabwe or around countries ovewr there. You are the types that accept food bundles from Mugabe without considering ecinimics of the world and keep him in power like no one else can rule Zim. Just get the list of lands that have been given to Blacks in this country and travel across the country to see which of them have been put to profitable production stage. Then you will shut-down your hollow motherland stroy and start thinking of reconcilliation and togetherness(black & whites etc); if only you a South African. Otherwise please.............

  • jcalitz3 - 2012-02-21 02:10

    Many people make the land issue a political issue we must look at the hard facts if we give land to people there primary responsibility is to produce food. In 2001 a scientific study was done according to the surface land area owned by people in South Africa [km²] Blacks owned 248 588 [km²] 20,20% but no food production was coming that way only small pockets of production for household use even far short of demand for locals. Whites owned 540 326 [km²] 44,08% but producing 98% of the countries need for food, Indians owned 12 651 [km²] 1,03% and Coloureds owned 11 4827 [km²] 9,37%. The Government owned 310 492 [km²] 25,33% of the land. Since 2001 so many land was added to the Black population that they are owning roughly over 30% of good agricultural land but no production of food is coming from those areas. About 95% of the Black people who received land and production money to start to farm. Left the farms and moved to the cities and took the production money and erected shacks and rent them out. That is far more easier to collect rent every month than work on the farm in the sun. Some sold or rent their land they have received back to white farmers and also overseas investors. Historically the Black people in the Southern African region were not farmers they are cattle, goat and sheep farmers. But because of the stealing between themselves and other people they never got this farming from the ground. Unless it is offerings to their forefathers, weddings, deaths

      Bandile - 2012-02-21 05:51

      You speak wise words, my bratha.

      Hugh - 2012-02-21 09:39

      We forget that southern afirican tribes never owned land. Land ownership is a new idea instilled by the ANC. Even today the tribal trust lands remain. Not one metre of that land has been divided using the same formulae as applied to white owned land. Government as experienced by the San in the Free state refuse to part with one square meter. Even when forced to do so by the laws of the land. In truth we have another of the ANc's hiden adjenda projects filled with lies and half truth.

  • Bandile - 2012-02-21 05:50

    Eish, comrade Gwede he lie through his own teeths! He get -4% for history.

  • Kevin - 2012-02-21 05:57

    Worst of all the bloody goverment uses tax payers money for land reform and again to build the owner a house. Its called buying a vote. We do not owe anyone land or a house. They must buy it for themselves so that they have a sense of achievement.

      Retardus - 2012-02-21 08:35

      @Bongani Mthembu Bling UHM we tried to buy it. Go look at what actually caused that little 'Bloed Rivier' Battle. Cattle and guns. Look at how well Dingane honored that agreement with Piet Retief.

  • Carel de Lange - 2012-02-21 06:22

    It is defies believe that ANC politicians are all of a sudden masters in the field of history. Not a single historian has thrown his weight behind ANC claims. The reality of it all is that Pieter Mulder is probably the best educated person in government. Yet the least educated are trying to rewrite history. Accusing Pieter of it is typical ANC misinformation tactics aimed at the uneducated masses which by the way is the legacy of the ANC and not apartheid!

      Elle-Black - 2012-02-21 07:42

      @ Carel keep dreaming "piter Mulder the best educated person"yeah right,he is grasping at straws like all of you,he has a farm to protect and he will say anything in order to keep it

      Masocha Nthane - 2012-02-21 09:04

      if mulder is educated maybe u 2 are right? RRRRIGHT!!! LAST time i checked the xhosa and coloured people a direct descendants of of the khoi people who were there long b4 1652 and to you mulder is educated DREAM ON!!!

      Gil - 2012-02-21 10:07

      Mudler the best educated person in government?.....somebody shut this joker up!

  • Ad - 2012-02-21 06:39

    Just because the ANC is in power they can write their own history. It is and was clear all the years Bantu people came from up north .Is it that they dont want to be associated with Zim? Khoi/San was the original inhabitant of this land.This history still needs to be proven wrong.Which brings me to this question, What part of Pietr Mulders statement is incorrect?

      Masocha Nthane - 2012-02-21 08:55

      where up north are you talking about. EVER HEARD OF MAPUNGUBWE the 1st city of trade or THE KINGDOM OF ZIMBAMBWE seems as if the only history denialists know is that of 1652 SKAM JOU!!!

  • Gregory Jurgens - 2012-02-21 06:46

    Take the farms , when there is no phutu to stuff in your fat face blame the whites again. Looking forward to see how you distribute 100 000 farms among 10 million people.

  • Lavida Koekemoer - 2012-02-21 06:54

    People r missing d point here ....the government cannot whatsoever land from anyone forcefully and distribute among black people ...What they trying to do is to dig and find out how dat land was obtained and follow protocol... We cannot afford to have a Zimbabwe situation in South Africa ....

      Bernadette Amir - 2012-02-21 07:33

      @Lavida I fully agree

  • ISO - 2012-02-21 07:05

    This land belobgs too all South Africans, give the unprocessed land too people thats wants to make a difference! Leave the processed land alone, its already in use!

  • malcolm - 2012-02-21 07:11

    The book sounds like yet another ANC propoganda tool. When the ANC push to meet their land reform targets, there are two key factors they need to bear in mind. 1.)They need to include land that lies in less fertile areas, such as the Karoo, and not just target the white mans land in arable areas. 2.)The willing sellers need to be paid speedily. Its no use offering money to a willing seller, and then expect him to keep investing and farming the land while he waits months and years for payment. They need to pay quickly, and hand over a productive farm speedily. Of course we all know that the ANC are incapable of planning, and ruin everything they touch, and then blame the white man for their failures. Instead of looking good, and achieving nothing with the farms, it may be an idea for the ANC to employ the outgoing farmers for a year, to teach and assist the new black farmer correct farming practice, to ensure the new farmer keeps the farm sustainable and profitable.

      Aphiwe - 2012-02-21 08:33

      malcolm i love your last point and i so agree with it and i've stated before that thats the intention of the ppl. any now to ur 1st point, there is no such thing as 'white mans land' in africa ohk, that on its own is laughable, lol. secondly The willing seller needs to not set up the future buyers of the land for failure just after his farm has been identified as one of the ones to be redistributed by not even maintaining it or keeping the going on's of the farm worth while. Dont be selfish, you have been for so many years and dont you think its time you did something good for the children of this land.

      Ben - 2012-02-21 12:00

      Aphibe, except for some parts there is also no such thing as black man's land in S.A. If you are as ignorant as your leaders, please dont comment.

      Aphiwe - 2012-02-21 14:34

      well Ben, atleast im from the continent, you my pale frend have no land whatsoever. By the way, who told you i have no Khoi blood running thru my veins dimwhit!!1

      richard.hipkin - 2012-02-21 15:00

      @Mayola, did you make Africa? No? Then you have no right to claim her... You and me were born here, that makes us both African, deal with it.

  • Ruan - 2012-02-21 07:15

    Let each province produce its own food for its own people,then we will see,,,actually screw that. Time to seal off the borders of the Western Cape and declare it a Republic of its own and build a berlin type wall and kick our all undesirables and illegals,koeberg is enough to supply us with power and we have one of the largest narutal water catchments in the world and tourism will flourish with the biggest game farms and golf courses,we already support the rest of the countries provinces from our tourism infastructure.Autonomy NOW..... ps,,,for all you racists,the Republic of the Western Cape would be for all who want to make a country work no matter what colour you are.

      Bandile - 2012-02-21 07:18

      What about my meny meny meny brathas that will plak there end then vote the Cape beck into Efrica ?

      Masocha Nthane - 2012-02-21 08:50

      what a waste of time dont you have anythng better to do or think about instead of the BS you are posting

      Thabo Mabotsa - 2012-02-21 09:44

      Republic of western cape my foot , just because its DA run thus not mean they will escape this issue , the clock is ticking ruan my white friend , I hope the minorities dismisive attitude changes soon otherwise there is going to be war ,I say it again two choices we have , kill each other for land or correct was such as evil system of land disposition on blacks by the white minority government ,

      Ruan - 2012-02-21 09:51

      @bandile @masocha @Thabo if you scroll up you will see that there are more thumbs up than thumbs down,now who is really writing BS and has nothing better to do??????

  • Ruan - 2012-02-21 07:16

    The DA needs to step up or us citizens WILL,A National Homeland Security would be established and run by its citizens to control the border,much like certain countries armies,you will be givien a grant for education if you join and serve X amount of years or join full tim

  • malcolm - 2012-02-21 07:18

    @ Thozi, A great comment. You have the right idea. This would in all likelyhood make South Africa the greatest country in the world. We desperately need to take emphasis away from mining and industry and concentrate on farming our most valuable resource. The worlds future and South Africas future lies in Agriculture. Squabbling over land won't help. We have to find ways of working together to achieve far higher agricultural output. Unfortunately The ANC doesn't have the vision required, nor do other political parties. They would prefer to stand up and squabble like kids fighting over sweeties.

  • Theprodigy - 2012-02-21 07:21

    its ridiculous arguing about things that happened in 1659, both Matashe & Mulder are being stupid, what they should be discussing is how to ensure that those that want to farm get the proper education, have access to land at an affordable price, & produce sufficient food to feed our rapidly growing population, in other words our food security is protected & we don't have to import food. The government has plenty of land, why not distribute some of this to the top agricultural students both black & white so that they can start farming.

      Henri James Christie - 2012-02-21 07:32

      Well said.

      Masocha Nthane - 2012-02-21 08:41

      well said indeed. Glad there are people who still THINK B4 they post a comment, thats what i call nation building.

      betsy.compaan - 2012-02-21 08:54

      The problem is that most of the ANC supporters won't believe that their dear ANC actually owns any land...same thing as in Zim that land is only meant for the Government officials yet every ANC voter thinks that their dear government will give them a slice of the pie. I am sure Bob's supporters thought the same thing.

  • Merven - 2012-02-21 07:26

    'Dropping the land reform question from the government's agenda would be betraying the ANC's history,' So true, it will go against the entitlement mentality completely.

  • Elle-Black - 2012-02-21 07:38

    It's funny how white peole all of a sudden have such great concern for the khoi San people,where did that come from?

      J-Man - 2012-02-21 08:48

      The history books.

      Elle-Black - 2012-02-21 09:07

      @ J-man written by? the white oppresor

      betsy.compaan - 2012-02-21 10:29

      get over it the, only opressor left is the ANC. Elle-Black you are as rasist as they come

      barabus2012 - 2012-02-21 10:41

      Absolutely elle. Its now of concern to the whitey because they cant take another theft from the ruling party. I'd rather give it to the khoi... hell i'd even give it to the bloody chinese than see it go to ungrateful people of entitlement.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-02-21 15:02

      @barabus, next time you shove a pie down your fat throat just remember where the ingredients came from...

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-02-21 23:39

      Speak to the people that went to the Border about their respect for the Bushmen (San). Speak to the people who integrated the Khoi as part of their families, before 1948. Ask yourself why so many Khoi have Afrikaner surnames and blue eyes. Eventually slaves are masters, and masters, slaves. Elle, we can't fight forever, or this Country will be in ruins. Let's find points of agreement - and leave the conflict to those with 'fringe' benefits.

  • Eldon.Swart - 2012-02-21 07:39

    Politics....

  • Fred - 2012-02-21 07:39

    Dear Mr. Mantashe, do you want the people of South Africa to have food? Or do you have enough in your fridge at the moment? Look at the future, and drop this "historical" bull now. We all want to work together to provide for everyone in this country. Stop this stupid living in the past inferiority complex now, and think of ways of providing. I know it's difficult for you to grasp, but there IS a tomorrow too.

  • SarelJBotha - 2012-02-21 07:41

    Not doing a proper , complete and independant land audit, is nothning more than downrigh dereliction of duty, morally corrupt and leads to theft.

  • chwama.mahlulo - 2012-02-21 07:48

    The writing has been long on the wall. Majority white South Africans pretend not to know about the land grab done by their auntsisters to the first people who occupied this land and yet the ANC's approach to it is just going to take us back to the days where we said we want our land back first, then everything else follows. We understand that there are those genuine white people who do not dispute such a fact but continue to engage in efforts of us living in harmony, knowing the need to redress the ills of our past. It's a pitty political organisations such as PAC do not have that impact on recruiting and coming with reasonable direction for the victims of this did. Imagine blacks claiming 40% of the land in Britain as theirs, what would the indeginous British people think? Obviously, they'll be seeing a challenge of war.

      mariuskowie - 2012-02-21 08:00

      The majority of white South Africans have been in South Africa for at least as long as the majority Black people. We are as much right to be and to own land as any of the other ethnic groups in South Africa. Imagine if Whites are told they stole the land and they are all criminals, as well as extermination squads going around executing their farmers, would that not be seen as a challenge of war? The ANC's pet racist even declared that if the farmers give up 80% of their land that the farm murders will stop. No it is not a challenge of war, it is GENOCIDE!

      Elle-Black - 2012-02-21 08:07

      @ Rebel i fully agree with you that white South africans have as much right to be here and own land like everyone else, however I disagree with the distortion of historical facts,saying black people have no claim to land in WC is the equavelent of saying white south africans dont belong here,comments like that throw us right back to the past and do nothing for the good of the country as whole

      mariuskowie - 2012-02-21 08:19

      @Elle-Black. Did you actually read my comment? I quote "We are as much right to be and to own land as any of the other ethnic groups in South Africa." I am not denying any ethnic group's right to own land ! When it comes to the distortion of historical facts, it seems that in South Africa, Democracy means that you can vote about versions of the "truth" and what the majority then decide, is the supposed to be historical truth. The ANC propaganda about land statistics is so contradicting with any other source, that it is clearly fabrications and lies. Just go to the Deed's office and a very different picture emerges. The statistics from the various banks also disagree vastly with the ANC lies. The challenge to the ANC is to present un-distorted raw data regarding real land ownership. Me think that they cannot dare as it will destroy much of their campaign towards the next election and will expose the extent of Afrikaner Genocide that is desperately getting hidden.

  • CALAMITYSA - 2012-02-21 07:49

    BEFORE PROPER RESEARCH CAN BE DONE BY ANYBODY - WE NEED A SUMMARY OF ALL LAND REFORM ACQUISITIONS DONE TO DATE, AND A REPORT ON WHAT IS HAPPENING ON THAT FARMS TODAY. IN THE MALALANE AREA A BIG AREA HAS BEEN EARMARKED 3/4 YEARS AGO, AGREED ON BUT THERE IS STILL NO MONEY AVAILABLE FOR PAYMENT. NO FARMER WILL INVEST IN PLANTING NEW CANE - IT IS 6 YEAR INVESTMENT WITH PROFIT ONLY REALISING AFTER 4 YEARS. IN THE MARICO AREA FARMS ARE BOUGHT FROM WHITE FARMERS - ONLY AFTER IT BECOMES IMPOSSIBLE AND VERY DANGEROUS NOT TO SELL - AND NOW NOTHING IS LEFT ON THOSE FARMS - NO CATTLE NO INFRASTRUCTURE. IN THE LIMPOPO - OFCALACO AREA - FARMS ARE RE RESOLD TO THE PREVIOUS OWNERS OR LET OR NOTHING IS HAPPENING. IN SOME LANDCLAIMS THE CLAIMANTS WANTS THE FARMERS TO STAY ON AND FARM IN PARTNERSHIP. OBVIOUSLY THE INVESTMENT SIDE - CONTRIBUTION TO WORKING CAPITAL ETC PART IS NOT UNDERSTOOD. IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET SUCH A REPORT? I WILL TENDER TO DO IT.

      betsy.compaan - 2012-02-21 09:04

      I personally think that all South African farmers should take up the farming opportunities further up north in Africa. There are loads of countries that are inviting our farmers to farm their soil. Our farmers are no longer safe and we stand to lose the skills that they have. Go and live in a country that's safe and where your worth is understood because until South Africans starve to death they will continue to hate and blame you. We all know that with every farm murder we are producing less food. Save yourself and your skills

      Aphiwe - 2012-02-21 15:32

      Go well bets buddy. Bon voyage. Asta la Vista. Tot siens (hopefully never). Peace Out. Dont call us, we will call you.

  • Phumi - 2012-02-21 07:50

    NMantashe and Mulder are of the same ilk and deserve to bein the dust bin of history. Why is he then desciplining our leadership when we are talking about land reform? Maybe he is been spending too much time massageing the feet of greedy white monopoly capital. Come Mangaung in December we will staff the ANC with leaders that are going to persue agenda radically. Those who think they can silence us will think Polokwane was a picknick compared t o the wrath of the people they will experience. Land exproriation without compensation will be adopted as a policy and next year we are going to parliament to rubber stamp it! Mantashe is a stumbling block to progress and we have it up to here with leaders wearing too many hats!

      MSGRule - 2012-02-21 08:06

      @Phumi - Is the kind of speak we need in South Africa. Are you serious "rience. Land exproriation without compensation will be adopted as a policy " and the have it rubber stamped. Seriously why rubber stamp it if you just going take it. Is it Zimbabwe on the way. With your mind set the poverty and hunger will be widespread itn eh next few years. Rid South Africa of the farmers and the country will DIE. You cant just take productive farms and give them to people that have no interest to farm. Think a bit, are you capible to farm, young people do not strive to be farmers they want glamourous jobs as we have seen, monitary things are important.

      Robert James Penson - 2012-02-21 08:27

      @ Phumi - you want my land?!? come and get a-hole. best bring your cahones though....

      Davedinosa1 - 2012-02-21 10:15

      Phumi!!! How will doing the same thing as the previous Governments, be any different,The white Governments of the past, you say took the land from you ancestors! Murdered and ill treated "your People"! Now that Your people have the power, do you think it makes you any better than what you think you are from what they were! if you do the same then you are the same! Your ignorance and Blind brainwashed ideals will get you know where! Why harbour so much hate? You cannot go through life Blaming your current downfalls on the way you were treated in your past! You are free to peruse your own destiny without the help of others, Madiba set Us all Free! Put the Past Behind us and move on! Threatening the people that might try silence you may provoke something, No Real Free thinking South African from any race group want WAR! I was forced to go to fight in the SANDF, join national service or go to jail! My parents didn't send me off to a foreign country to get a qualification then when its all over come home to a Great Job, and live in Sandton with all the bells and whistles! I went to fight another man's war because they hated the black and were in power in a country were I was Born, Thats my HISTORY! in my past! I have worked my ass off to get where i am now! I was also only freed from my bonds as a citizen of the NP run RSA in 1994, the end of apartheid freed us all! so let it go already! Go work for what YOU want and leave us all in peace!!!

  • pws69 - 2012-02-21 07:57

    All I expect from land reform is that it is done PROPERLY. Why does it take 3 to 5 years AFTER the sale agreement has been concluded to transfer the land? Why is there no financial support from the LAND Bank for these new farmers?? Why do the recipients not attend an agricultural college as part of the deal? Land Reform is not failing, but bureaucracy is failing land reform. Now the ANC try to redirect attention away from their failures by trying to make it a racist issue.

      MSGRule - 2012-02-21 08:09

      @pws69 - well said. You can't take a productive piece of land and let someone that has no idea of farmign to take it over. There must be theoretical and hands on training and it takes years. Zimbabwe is callign if this kind of pushing by the anc is continued. Way to militant for a supposed peace loving rainbow nation.

      pws69 - 2012-02-21 08:18

      @MSGRule, There was a recent article of 5 (6) recipients ranging in age from 22 to 45 if memory serves, that were running a successful farm. How did they do it, they retained the farmer as a farm manager for 5 years, who taught them how to farm properly, they attended management and finance courses, and split the workload among themselves. THAT is how it should be done. But the crux of the 96% failures (of which almost 100% in on the MOST fertile land in SA) is a lack of the RIGHT support for the recipients. Another factor though is that very little government land seems to be part of Land Redistribution, and therefore it does come across as less of land redistribution, and more of white land dispossession. It is all very murky in detail, and therefore a massive amount of distrust.

  • Hein - 2012-02-21 08:06

    History is history, it can't be changed. What is bothering me is if I work hard, earn enough money and buy land which I have earned and what is rightfully mine can just be taken away by someone saying that his ancestors lived their, this land is his and the land is given to them. Or that thousands of farmers are being murdered which is supplying food. Farms are being given to blacks for nothing and what happens to that farm?

      Davedinosa1 - 2012-02-21 09:25

      The ANC hard-liners that continue with this "Absolute Crap" way of just taking what they want in the name of land reform, they don't want to work! not on farms or anywhere, they want the Voters to do all the work and they will just get rich off of their Voters sweat! they preach and Punt the famous words of Madiba as part of their Sales pitch, "Freedom for all South Africans, all race groups will be equal" Bla bla bla! but what they leave out is : We are the rulers and you will obey!while we rob you blind of all your welfare, we talk the Good talk but still walk like a sneaky snake, whats good for you is Great for us, and whats Great for us is Great for Us too!!!!! Unless your a White south African! The Leading Nation of This country is still doing what it has done for thousands of years, Pillage and Plunder! just now they call it Land Reform!

  • betsy.compaan - 2012-02-21 08:12

    How should their ANC followers afford the R250 to buy a copy of the "history" of South Africa? SO not only are they spending the taxpayers money, they are also making money off the taxpayers money.

  • Ziggie - 2012-02-21 08:14

    No need to abandon it, just get non-money suckers to work the land and make a success!!!!. If you do not understand the above, it means qualified farmers, if you still do not understand, go back to school and complte your grade 12. Your previous policy did not work, but I assume you are too illiterate to understand that also.

  • Deon - 2012-02-21 08:21

    What the ANC so conveniently forget is that the Nguni people (the Bantu), settling from the North East of Africa (yes they too are settlers in this part of Africa), drove the San and Koi people out of the land before them and at stages literally committed genocide by exterminating whole Koi and San communities in their march southward. Therefore they too must take responsibility for the deeds committed by their people.

  • Davedinosa1 - 2012-02-21 08:37

    Back during our history, at the same time that the cape was being taken by the British, the Black Africans were settling throughout the more northern parts of SA,having moved down from other African countries looking for grazing and new settlement places to start their own nations, The Zulu Nation for instance , was not born of KZN! They settled there from Zimbabwe. None of Us whites or Blacks are the indigenous people of SA, so if through land reform the ANC wish to give the land back to those that OWN it, then all land in SA belongs to the SAN Bushmen, not the Xhosa, Zulu or any other black SA race group, Having land taken by foreign country is what happens when a country is conquered! The Bloody ANC want to take Everything and use Nothing of it except line the pockets of corrupt officials! if the land you as the "Current Leading political", party want to take back to give it to who you think is the rightful owner, then take land that is still occupied by the original land takers, If they sold it ,post 1994, on the open market, & it was purchased by a white, doesn't mean you can take it because you were to fast asleep to get it when it was for sale! You can't blame the non-success of your land reform on the fact that there are not enough "willing sellers". It Is Because you as the leading power are too asleep and are hell bent on corruption, focusing on only the Profit spinners and letting the Bargains slide past!

  • Jadon - 2012-02-21 08:40

    "a nation that doesn't know its history is like a tree that doesn't blossom". Gwen never said that. He said it's like a tree THAT DOESN'T HAVE ROOTS and will never blossom. To hell with 1652. We may as well admit that there was a general beating and shooting and stealing going on in Southern Africa. All guilty. The locals were just as free to chase Mr Settler back into the sea as he was to peg out a few hectares of 'their' land. The big difference came in the 20th century when some evil bastards brought in legislation that discriminated against a specific ethnic group or groups. Kicking folk out of their houses or farms and moving them to a shanty town in the bondooks. Those persons or their families must be compensated plus interest. This is a totally different issue, and no right thinking South African would have any objection to this. But to take it back to 1652 is tantamount to saying: "Whites: We'll accept what you have done in helping to build up this country. Thanks very much. Now f&*k off home." Home? This is home.

      MSGRule - 2012-02-21 08:49

      @Jadon - Poetry! If those boats never stopped in the Cape, South Africa/South West Africa/Mozambique would not be developed. There will be grass huts etc as is still the norm up North in Africa

      Elle-Black - 2012-02-21 10:20

      @ MSGRule and maybe we were doing just fine in those grass huts

      Aphiwe - 2012-02-21 14:52

      A man after my own heart! Thank you.

      Aphiwe - 2012-02-21 14:56

      MSGRule, btw, all the infrastructure in the world and development in the world is not worth my pride and dignity. not worth displacement and disposition. Not worth our ancestors having to die at the hands of the oppressor for. Where has a white man's boat ever stopped and not caused harm. You like to preach entitlement but when you were killing ppl and forcing them off their land and 'pegging hectares' of their land are you telling me there was no feeling of entitlement?

  • Morama - 2012-02-21 08:41

    Share the land cz it belongs to all who lve in it,But do it wisely and attentively.Please only to those who are interested in feeding the whole nation or else leave as it is!!!

      Nigel - 2012-02-21 09:26

      exactly

  • David - 2012-02-21 08:43

    When the Zulu settlers came to S. Africa ,they committed genocide, and we see their pride in this, as they have name an airport after the perpetrator.

  • SarelJBotha - 2012-02-21 08:44

    However – according to a March 2011 land-registry survey summary to parliament, the SA State already owned 64,976 of the 85,000 (+) ‘white’ commercial farms and 5,448 agri-holdings registered as ‘white ówned” in 1994 – but the ANC-regime doesn’t know the exact extent of its own state-land holdings because its Land Registry Records do not include the 41% of the total SA land surface of 1,214,470 sq km which used to be the independent tribal homelands – where millions of black people still farm and have settlements today. All this tribal land now is also owned by the State although not lodged in any land-registries.

  • Steven - 2012-02-21 08:46

    Matanshe you plonker, no one said it should be dropped you a-hole. it should be discussed in a different light. Land and funds should definitely be made avaialble to the people, it should just be done differently. Besides Mantashe, dont you have a party in Zim to attend and get ready for. As for you Pieter Mulder, could you really not talk a bigger load of bull than you did. The land was up for rent/to let!!!??? Really? REALLLLLLLYYYYYYYY? who were the renting agents? Pam Golding??

  • SarelJBotha - 2012-02-21 08:48

    In 1994, the SA revenue registers showed that there were between 85,000 and 100,00 privately-owned, food-producing farms in South Africa, which employed more than 1,6-million workers – all taxpayers who lived on the farms with their families. These farms ever only produced this excess-food on less than SIX PERCENT of the entire surface of the country – although according to the CIA, 12,1 percent of SA is considered ‘arable’ land. 2011: Only 14,000 privately-owned, registered commercial farms remain on the taxpayers-registry: However what this careful survey of the disreputable records in the SA Deeds Registration Office did reveal, was that there’s considerably more land owned by the State than they realise: that from the original 85,000 privately-owned food-producing farms in the hands of ‘white’ owners - (“Boer farms”) , only about 14,000 farms and smallholdings in 2010 were registered at the SA Revenue Office as being revenue-producing ‘white-owned commercial agricultural sites’- all the other farms are in the hands of the State, including of course all the former homelands, municipalities, huge parcels of unused military land, etc.

      betsy.compaan - 2012-02-21 09:20

      Just wish that all South Africans can understand the truth for themselves but unfortunately it's easier to just keep your head in the sand and to believe all the lies than believing facts and facing reality. Next thing they will say that the SA revenue system is lying

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-02-21 23:54

      Daar's hy, Sarel - the facts I have been searching for. Unknown and unspoken.

  • SarelJBotha - 2012-02-21 08:49

    The CIA observations from space have also registered the fact that semi-arid South Africa’s crop production has dropped dramatically since 1994: by the end of 2008, SA ‘s total land surface comprised of 12.1% ‘arable’ farmable land’ — but only 0.79% of this land was under permanent crops : of which 14,980 sq km were irrigated in 2008. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sf.html

  • Polly - 2012-02-21 08:49

    Choose a person, stay with your whole life.stdster.,.c0m

  • Morama - 2012-02-21 09:00

    And let's leave history cz it wont help the present with the present!!! Share the land and will see how it goes and stop coming with wrong assumtions!!!

      betsy.compaan - 2012-02-21 09:26

      And if everyone starves? Is that a risk you are willing to take. I agree with you that we are not going anywhere by harping on about history but we need to understand that there are 50 million people in South Africa, you cannot gamble with the lives of 50 million people of which you are one. So no we can't just see how it goes there needs to be a proper plan in place with proper training except if you don't mind taking a gambling with your own childrens lives because in the end it will be our children that suffers if we don't get this right.

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-02-21 23:56

      Read Sarel's comments, Morama. That is defenitely not a thumbsuck. I see the reality around me.