News24

Pretoria name changes upset Dutch party

2012-03-29 08:27

Pretoria - A Dutch political party has demanded action from the Dutch cabinet in support of the retention of Afrikaans street names in Pretoria.

"The Netherlands Embassy situated in Queen Wilhelmina avenue should refuse to accept a new name," the "De Partij voor de Vrijheid" (the Party for Freedom), PVV, said in a statement issued in The Hague on Wednesday.

The suggestion was contained in a parliamentary question to Dutch deputy minister Halbe Zijlstra on Wednesday.

Zijlstra was asked if he was aware of the planned name changes and whether he thought the plans were a "slap in the face of the Dutch royal family".

The PVV said the ANC planned to change 27 Pretoria street names, including Beatrix street and Queen Wilhelmina avenue.

Many of the names were a reminder of the anti-colonial struggle of the independent Boer republics against the British empire, the statement said.

"The name Queen Wilhelmina avenue is an ode to the young queen who in 1900 dispatched a Dutch warship to fetch a beleaguered President Kruger," PVV parliamentarian Martin Bosma said.

Other street names commemorating historical characters were "Voortrekkers" with Netherlands backgrounds who helped establish Pretoria, the PVV politician said.

The PVV is a minority rightwing partner in the current governing Dutch coalition, led by the controversial politician Geert Wilders.

Comments
  • Linda - 2012-03-29 08:43

    Tshwane should spend less of its budget on street name changes and fancy new logos and divert funds to maintenance. We had no electricity last week (it happens at least once a month) and no water today. A leaking water pipe is the problem and the maintenance department has only one truck so who knows when it will be fixed. Why is it leaking - because it is old and poorly maintained. Clearly my rates and taxes paid to Tshwane each month are not being used to maintain the infrastructure.

      wesleywt - 2012-03-29 09:11

      Tshwane is a good name for a township, which Pretoria is becoming.

      Julie - 2012-03-29 09:26

      Linda, you would get a better response from the east wind, as the ANC who - under the rotten leadership of one Mike sutcliffe in durban, renamed over 90 street names to 'honour heroes of the struggle.' One very controversial issue was that of renaming the main street of Amanzimtoti, Kingsway, to that of Andrew Zondo, who planted a bomb in a shopping centre a few days before Christmas,killing and maiming people. There were thousands of protests against this - including Zondo's father who said his son did a bad thing, but no, Mikey and his ANC mentors went ahead and now Durban and environs is a shambles as people try to navigate their way through those areas... And I was born and bred in Pretoria, and like in Durban, I refuse to acknowledge renamed streets, the bastardized anthem and this rag that goes through as a flag... All that money wasted could have been far better spent in welfare, housing, schooling, etc., but no - I hope people will vote with their eyes wide open in the next elections and get rid of the ruggish we are now saddled with... PRETORIA STAYS PRETORIA - AND SO DOES ITS STREETS...

  • clinton.badenhorst - 2012-03-29 08:49

    The Dutch should just send another warship and take out the ANC for good! To think of it... When they go home, they should take me with them!

      mfudzi.wamambo - 2012-03-29 10:21

      Pythagorus, you are hallucinating as usual.

      clinton.badenhorst - 2012-03-29 10:32

      @ mfudzi.wamambo - Well then 50 other people are hallucinating with me...

      djgmaestro - 2012-03-29 11:28

      you r free to go... we dont need that kind of hate

      VaMbozha - 2012-03-29 14:11

      boring just like the pythagoras theorem...and you cant solve a pythagoras equation

  • Kurt Seafield - 2012-03-29 08:51

    As much as I'm against most of the ANC's antics why the hell should some dutch party have any say what so ever to the happenings in SA.

      clinton.badenhorst - 2012-03-29 08:54

      Cause Afrikaans was greatly derived from the Dutch... And they played a BIG part in the establishment and history of SA.

      betsy.compaan - 2012-03-29 08:55

      Because they have a shared history with SA whether the ANC denies it or not

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-29 09:58

      @lovenergy, true that. and that history is important to who? majority of this country? i dont think so.

      Hettie - 2012-03-29 10:36

      BECAUSE WE NEED EUROPE TO TAKE NOTE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN S.A. AND THAT IS NOT ONLY STREET NAMES BEING CHANGED.

      betsy.compaan - 2012-03-29 11:25

      @siyadyosiba, history can't belong to one group of people because they are the majority. You can't just refuse certain parts of history like that, we call that rewriting history, reminds me of the NP government. The fact that you don't even grasp the importance of this history says it all...just because it's not important to you doesn't mean that it never happened

      thami.mhlanga - 2012-03-29 17:12

      Kurt I was shocked as to the Dutch Party itself. This is South Africa and we have our own problems and if someone wants to elevate and prolong Dutch roots in this country we should be worried about this so called democracy. They have no right to open their mouth here and as far as I'm concerned - whether this names a re changed or there's no place here for a Dutchmen and his culture that he can publicly claim unless he claims his supremacy that was promised by his forefathers. We, as Africans have our government back from the Dutch and the British and still fighting for more wealth, it is disrespectiful and a disgrace to claim any ownership of Africa from an European. Dutch and all its European Royal families donnot deserve anything from Africa - you developed this country with tears and blood and sweat of Africans, therefore you cannot claim that you did everything, you just led the way and now the ANC governemtn is leading that way, with their vision, and even them will lie to their people and promise them heaven and earth like the NP did to its supporters of the riches of this country. By the time you realised you've been played, you will be both drowning in your own sorrows.

      Jannie - 2012-04-02 17:42

      wITH A NAME LIKE KURT WHERE DO YOUR ANCESTORS HAIL FROM ??

  • pule.bokgwathile - 2012-03-29 09:19

    yall should go to holland if you wanna hear those names, this is S.A we have to name it after south african people white, coloured, indian or black

      Ulrich - 2012-03-29 09:53

      One thing that most people don't understand is that if it wasn't for the Dutch, French & English settlers South Africa would never have existed. Long before we where born they came in small boats to setup a trade route. Yes, that's the true history which have never been taught to the new South African youth cause according to them South Africa only became a country in '94. So yes they formed part of our history.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-29 10:03

      @Ulrich, I think u are still asleep and your imagination is confusing you.

      Simthandile Mpondo - 2012-03-29 10:03

      Ulrich, they were never asked to come here so they must not come with those tendencies here.

      clinton.badenhorst - 2012-03-29 10:17

      @ Simthandile Mpondo - Neither did they ask the blacks to invade from North Africa. So you should not come with your tendencies either!

      Mesulie Vince' Ntombela - 2012-03-29 10:25

      ''...if it wasn't for the Dutch, French & English settlers South Africa would never have existed.'' iyo! @Ulrich are u hearing yourself...''existed'' do u even know the meaning of the word???

      clinton.badenhorst - 2012-03-29 10:28

      @ Mesulie Vince' Ntombela - What he says is true... The black would still be running around in their animal skins and living in huts! We modernized you people!

      janet.pretorius1 - 2012-03-29 11:12

      Yes - and there is so much infrastructure going up daily. So why not use common sense and name new streets, cities, bldgs etc after non whites. The ANC can barely maintain current infrastructure - so why would they want to come into previously white populated old, decaying areas and rename them? No one whinges about going into Soweto etc to rename street names there. The focus (if one had a modicum of common sense) should be to focus on maintenance of infrastructure - rather than changing decade old street/city names. Doesn't anyone notice how the health, defense, education systems have gone down the tubes to misapplication of funds! Surely this is more important.

      djgmaestro - 2012-03-29 11:48

      The only reason why the streets/towns are been renamed is that those who named them then never even acknowledged us [Black people if thats what you call us.] Now the current government is going to change the street / town names and is giving you a chance to follow procedures and voice out your opinions, but you still feel like this is not right? We have democratic country now. If you bring out your victorious past[which is undermining black people]you bring out the the rehabilitated we had suffered. We are trying hard to forget...

      janet.pretorius1 - 2012-03-29 11:58

      @djgmaestro. All the more reason to keep current names to remind you of the hell of oppression and the joys of well maintained infrastructure. 20 yrs from now (or more) you can look back and tell your children how a country should not be run - by referring to the old names and point them to the new infrastructure and the new names and brag about how history has not repeated itself. Assuming the ANC hasn't taken us down the same path followed by countries north of SA by then (aka poverty and dictatorship).

      Tanie - 2012-03-29 22:00

      @Lazlo, who the fu£k invited them to bring their 'changes' including yourself. We are not the generation of our forefathers and you take it or you f-off.

  • Mike - 2012-03-29 09:29

    What boggles my mind about the anc is last night i saw on the news that theres nursing homes for disabled and mentally disabled children and adults that are closing due to government not paying their subsidies for years, theres schools that are falling apart and learners have to sit under trees in fear of the building collapsing, government have been promising for years to build new premisies but dont have funds. But theres money to change street names?

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-29 10:01

      I feel you Mike. So u think the funds allocated for "name change" can address all that you mentioned?

      Mike - 2012-03-29 11:53

      Thank you news24 for once again deleting my comment. I dont give a s@!t about Afrikaans street names, its not my heritage or culture, you dont see us English up in arms about the Afrikaaners changing the name of Roberts Hill to Voortrekker Hoogte which is now Thaba Tshwane? My point is, im not happy that my tax money gets used for name changes that could be used for priorities, it can wait, and yes, the funds put towards name changes can address the issues mentioned, it costs millions to change street and town names, its not a cheap exercise. And some history, Yes the English were colonialists, but, Great Britian and the English in SA were opposed to opression and apartheid, and thats a fact. Why do you think apartheid only came into being after independence?

  • Junebugg - 2012-03-29 09:39

    Hey Dutch party..how about we keep the names and you also rename some of your streets in Netherlands to MUGABE,GADDAFI,EDI AMIN????

      mfudzi.wamambo - 2012-03-29 10:36

      Junebugg, you are an intellectual

      Jo - 2012-03-31 08:48

      The Dutch have change some of their street names for South African names. There is now a Nelson Mandela Square in the area where I used to live.

  • luyolo.mgodi - 2012-03-29 09:55

    Why TF does some Dutch party feels they have in any way a say to what is happening in South Africa. GTOH!!

  • siyadyosiba - 2012-03-29 09:57

    Shame poor Dutch. So these names remind of the history the Dutch made in SA? SA is not interested in your history, so what should SA do? Keep the names that remind of Dutch history? U guys are clowns.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-29 18:39

      Poor Lazlo, cry baby. Truth is, Dutch history is gonna be extinct in this country. That's the unfortunate truth.

  • lytteot7 - 2012-03-29 10:12

    Yes we have history with the dutch but that doesn't mean they can dictate to us a sovereign country what to do. We don't tell them what names they should use in netherlands so this guy and his minority party in his home country shouldn't be too forward. He is a foreigner and should toe the line and obey the laws of the country. Only the citizens of this country have a right to say yes or no, not some foreigner.

  • nkanyiso.brille.khumalo - 2012-03-29 10:12

    these names must change, to reflect our resent history, we must change them to our heroes of today so that our kids knw our recent history, da dutch mst jst go jump in a lake!!

  • petbosh - 2012-03-29 10:19

    I think this Dutch party should just send a Tatanic to come fetch their children back to netherlands whr they could enjoy this afrikaner street names without being bothered

      clinton.badenhorst - 2012-03-29 10:37

      @ petbosh - What a beautiful idea! Please come right away!

      eddiebant - 2012-03-29 11:57

      Petbosh and you back to the Congo and further north?

      siyolise.matyila - 2012-03-29 14:07

      Highly doubt that petbosh, an international student(dutch) on my campus once told me they feel nothing for the afrikaaners, no affiliation, sympathy or any brotherhood, and he said the dutch people are quite liberal compared to the afrikaners who are quite conservative.

      petbosh - 2012-03-29 16:26

      After reading some of the comments iam of opinion that the commission of truth and reconciliation didn't work at all. The majority of whites people are still having the very stupid ideology that their forefathers had. Aint suprised if farmers are being killed because farms are like the institution of apartheid.

  • mfudzi.wamambo - 2012-03-29 10:20

    surely there is something absolutely wrong with people of colonial origin in Africa. so the fact that you are in Africa as a result of colonial policies which were and still are detrimental to the African does not affect you even a single bit, to the extent that you want colonial oppression to remain intact with all the horrors it represents? i think you must be taking the African for some sub-human who deserves not even the soil on which he was born. what has the Dutch Queen got to do with street name changes in an African country? what does an African have to do with street name changes in Europe or elsewhere for that matter?this article goes to show just how fast asleep these colonial left-overs are. wake up this is Africa and names of streets will change in order to reflect the current political dispensation. wake up from your deep sleep. Africa shall never be a colony again!

      clinton.badenhorst - 2012-03-29 10:35

      This country does not belong to the blacks! What don't you understand about that??? It's just a pity the ANC promised the uneducated masses so many good things in order to get their votes! This country would have still been a beautiful country under another democratic party. The ANC are oppressing the white people with all the BEE/AA crap which does not make it democratic! It's a dictatorship! So you are no better than the old regime! No wonder we all want to leave! Has 18 years not been enough???

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-29 11:00

      @pythagoras, i like your everyday claim that SA doesnt belong to blacks. Keep convincing yourself, you are amongst the thousand people that believe that crap history taught purposefully to you by the architects of apartheid, just to make you feel better when you robbing blacks that its both not ours. Learn truthful history and be enlightened.

      janet.pretorius1 - 2012-03-29 11:26

      @mfudzi.wamambo (South African or foreignor?). Look to the countries to the north of SA. What do you see in the majority of them? Abject poverty? Zero infrastructure as zero maintenance was done after gaining independence? Homelessness? It goes on and on. Is this what your definition of the African way is? Compromised comms, compromised education and health systems, joblessness because the economies are being run into the ground by corrupt African government politicians. Seen Zimbabwe lately? (To name but one). As ex Northern Africans - isn't it better to work WITH whities aka ex colonialists - than to design and support more policies that create poverty for all?

      djgmaestro - 2012-03-29 12:06

      @Pythagoras: I dont blame you for thinking that you are superior and absolute. You were raised that way. [A daily dose of whites only brain wash!]. In other words you never got a chance to learn and think on you own, adapt to forever changing times. Let go, it all in the past and it is been documented. If you want to relive the moment you must go to the "Apartheid Museum "... Not only street/town names should be changed, there is a lot that has to changed. i.e. the group areas act should be eradicated, people that were born b4 1994 elections should all go to rehab for racial issues that they may have encountered, to name a few...

      lytteot7 - 2012-03-29 12:15

      Pythogaras if u want to leave why don't u just bounce? Oh I got it, maybe u don't have the means or the skills needed by the country u want to move to. I respect those guys that left without threatening to leave and those guys that vowed to stay no matter what than people on blogs saying "we will leave, we will leave" as if they are insecure teenage girls. If u want to leave, leave you are not bound to stay where u don't want to. There is no dutch party that will stop a government from renaming what's build on their soil.

      clinton.badenhorst - 2012-03-29 12:24

      @ djgmaestro - Born before 1994? That would include the whole of the ANC and your fathers and grandfathers poephol! I do not live in the past so by the way... Every single time I am being told to go back to Europe by blacks! So I am simply defending myself. I just want to open these pricks eyes who think SA owes them something and that this country only belongs to them! It makes me sick!

      Loo - 2012-03-29 14:05

      What the heck are you talking about? Let me remind you :: The whites also suffered under colonialism. We also died in the anglo war, concentration camps etc. cause of it. Yes call the whites settlers and ill call the blacks migrants. Yes "black people migrated from middle and North Africa to "South Africa" as its known now. And yes WE both blacks and whites actually displaced the Khoi-san, Which in actual fact was the earliest known inhabitants of the area now know as RSA. WHAT now? Do we dwell on that or do we say ... Were one country now, regardless of race and move into the future. Or do we try and "demolish" and "rename" everything including references to the war heroes that fought and died to save US all from colonialism ?

      djgmaestro - 2012-03-29 16:47

      @Pythagoras: I thought it was your idea to go back? But are you ready to leave everything here, man? Really? Just imagine when you get there at the airport, strange people all around, strange language [Afrikaans is not exactly as Dutch]. Then you realize that dutch people aren't racist at all what would you do? OK! Back to reality! ANC is the only political party in SA that has ever won[snatch]the democratic elections, Hence they are the ruling party. [I think that is fair.] And it is still fair to tell you that you are free even if you did or not vote. One thing we black people don't want is to be undermined, hated on, cast out etc. because we know of this we wont allow SA to go the same route again even it means that different people on the receiving end, we wont. For SA to be a developed country means you should stop staying putt and pointing fingers. If this is your country as you strongly believe come up with ways, ideas, etc that will help it to be what you want it to be.

      Jeremy - 2012-04-02 23:19

      England has plenty of African street names, plenty of names from all over the world in fact. But you see the people who built the roads got to name them. Why don't you try building something? Or are you also to deeply fall asleeping long time to do that??

  • Den - 2012-03-29 11:28

    just imagine when they find out about the farm murders, they may declare war..

  • Den - 2012-03-29 11:29

    @ siya, atleast our ancestors kept records.....or better still were able to.

  • Den - 2012-03-29 11:41

    your comment just concretes what im saying.

      Junebugg - 2012-03-29 11:44

      You don't even know how to reply to your comment but we gotta thank you(Specifically)for coming to save us with computer literacy ??

  • romeo.xolani.dludla - 2012-03-29 12:09

    wow just reading this shows me we hav achieved nothing as country. 90 percent of these comments are purely racial enuff to start a civil war. and i dont mind if adults have their own views, im just worried as to what do you teach ur child to hate a black person if yes why? do u teach him /her to hate a white ? reality is this we all live in this country and nobody is forced to be here black or white if you dont wana be here leave. but dont go around talking bout a history if u know nothing of it.

      Blessed Ndlovu Maratuza - 2012-03-29 16:30

      I agree with u 100%.. This racial s**t will not end well for SA. And like in Zim, both black n white folks will lose out big time. Racism is still ripe n it'll bring SA down to de knees..

  • Den - 2012-03-29 12:25

    sorry we just really upset at all the stupid things the anc does. do you not see thousands of poor people? how in the last 20years has our government fixed these problems?, im white and i see this. the masses do nothing but keep these people in power. how buy chaging street names, are we helping the core problem in SA? Yet those that can change things for the better do nothing. this is our home to and we see it falling apart.

      Mike - 2012-03-29 12:42

      Agreed Den, what the Black nation doesnt understand is its not whites trying to hang onto apartheid, most of us were and are against it. Its the unethical, pointless misuse of much needed money that upsets us so much

      romeo.xolani.dludla - 2012-03-29 12:44

      true i get your point but how do intend to get through to the black population out there who have not an interest in politics but rather a retention of power, sure white people have done a lot for the country, but at the moment even if a white party were to have the the potential they would need a black vote to win an elction, and so with that in mind how do white minority plan on winning elctions if this i the mentallity ppl have. we have debated what white people hvae don an not all white ppl feel the same of blacks, and not all blacks want name changes but wen the moment u make this ratial you loose the plot preiod

  • Loo - 2012-03-29 13:47

    Ahhhh .. the old name change debate.. daaaaammmnnnn ,, change all the names you want ANC ,, im even happpy if you change the atlantic ocean's name to "Freedom Ocean" .. BUT one condition .. JUST stop stealing k ????

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-29 18:43

      That's the funniest comment today hahaha @ "stop stealing" ...lol

  • Lazlo - 2012-03-29 14:24

    For all you black posters out there. Please read this. http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2012/03/29/another-downgrade

      Morena - 2012-03-31 12:35

      You should post another one for the White pigs about how European Economies are going down the drain...

  • Manu - 2012-03-29 14:30

    Wow so some of you here agree with the Netherlands dictating street names to SA? Talk about a total lack of national pride. Not surpsingly the people who support this are white. As a black person I am reading this and thinking, "Why do you (particularly a white person) expect to be treated as an equal citizen when you can't even defend your country's right to do a simple thing as naming its own streets?" Some people are just shameless hypocrites, claiming to be Africans but only when its convenient.

      Mike - 2012-03-29 15:25

      Read up on my comment earlier, i dont give a dam if they want to change names, i dont agree with it cause its money that can be used for better things. im not afrikaans, cant speak afrikaans, have no affiliation with duchties, but really, use the money to improve health, education etc, things that need it desperately.

      Den - 2012-03-29 16:04

      how many streets in black areas have no name, just a street number? this ever occured to you? ANCS wasting money on stupid things, its ultimatly poor blacks that loose out, ie no money for housing education etc.. do you not see this? not trying to argue with you, majoritys right to to as it wishes. just think money could be better alocated

  • Den - 2012-03-29 15:36

    @ romeo,i dont think white want to rule this place and we do except that we are the minority, we just so sick and tired of the really bad soapie called the news, whos main star is the ANC and all there dirty laundry constantly in everyones face.im quite sure most whites dont really care what the dutch have to say, this is not there country.

  • petbosh - 2012-03-29 16:30

    After reading some of the comments iam of opinion that the commission of truth and reconciliation didn't work at all. The majority of whites people are still having the very stupid ideology that their forefathers had. Aint suprised if farmers are being killed because farms are like the institution of apartheid.

      djgmaestro - 2012-03-29 16:57

      sometimes i think this "New" South Africa is not new at all. Lately it is Whites vs Blacks. [This is wrong we all know how it ends up.] SA biggest Challenge: Integration between races. Dividing resources against race /group area act only will course an uprow!

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-29 18:50

      @petbosh, the current generation that is commenting in this forum was born and bred in accordance with apartheid principles, that's the reason. Hence change is painful to them. They still wanna hold on to the legacy of their fathers and it was tasting "very sweet". as soon as it is phased out, all will be fine.

  • thami.mhlanga - 2012-03-29 17:22

    South Africa must change, the face of apartheid is showing itself everywhere no matter how many musk it present, the attitude and actions always tell of its true nature. Dutch you need to leave this country and go leave in your home land if you going to misbehave in this country. Africans have tolarated a lot of nonsense from former oppressors and all they know is always opening big mouth when change take its course, you have lost. Get lost! You want retaiin your apartheid culture and be in governement again bit the ANC fairly on elections and do as you wish. But, Dutch party AND deceived you on their freedom charter because this country is not for everyone who leaves in but an African, Euro-Africans and those who abide by south african rules and culture and traditions. You do not get used to this, you're going to suffer. I certainly do not want to be counted in the generation that bought to every little thing your parents and your community told you so. Nothing is for free period and you cannot have your cake and eat it. This is not a Dutch colony, especially Pretoria, its not a Dutch colony. I am very upset myself seeing all the memorials of Afrikaaners on Queen Whelminah at Charles, it is slap on my face, my family, my children. Who cares if ANC slap the Royal family, they dont have a place here anymore. Finish and Klaar.

      Jeremy - 2012-04-02 23:09

      You sad pathetic moron. Can't we see your hatred. Jacob Z is slapping you so hard in your face you can't feel yourself getting robbed of your future. You are clearly the product of your government. Why in the name of everything simple can't this excuse for a government start building some NEW TOWNS AND CITY's? Its not hard, even us stuuuupid white people managed it!!!! Just think, (hard concept I know) this would create jobs, ,revenue, schools, shops, hospitals and pride. Did you know that the bands of thieves who pretend to run this country are still sponging billions from the Europeans you seem to hate. And Europe still thinks that Africa will one day manage to stand on it's own two feet. Well with fools like you who cut their nose to spite their face, there is not a hope. Africa will continue to die from AIDS, Hunger, greed and crass stupidity

  • Wilna - 2012-03-29 23:28

    It would be a good thing if these people would remember what Mandela said when the ANC came into power and wanted to change all names everywhere; he said "No! if you want to honour the heroes of the struggle, go build new buildings and bridges and streets and towns and name those after your heroes. But leave the names that are there already -- those names are also part of our history and should never be eradicated"

      Jo - 2012-03-31 08:55

      A thousand thumbs ups to you!

  • Nicardo - 2012-03-31 13:24

    I will meet you at corner Maleswena & Matlala just next to Masemola Shopping Mall or else at Sekwati Taxi Rank on your way to Nchabeleng Army Museum next to Mokaba Police Station...how does it sound?

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