News24

Pretoria street changes 'will cost millions'

2012-03-31 07:31

Johannesburg - Pretoria street name changes will cost residents millions of rands, the Freedom Front Plus said on Friday.

"[They] now have to have addresses, business cards, maps, [and] marketing materials... changed at their own expense," FF Plus Tshwane council member Conrad Beyers said in a statement.

"Why, 18 years after the ANC took power in 1994, this haste now?"

Beyers said the ANC was thinking more about the advantage it would have in view of its elective conference later this year than of Pretoria residents.

Tshwane metro spokesperson Pieter de Necker said the decision to change the street names in Pretoria was taken at a council meeting on Thursday.

It was expected that 27 new street names would be considered.

Afrikaners not hated


City Mayor Kgosientso Ramokgopa said Afrikaners were not hated and their heroes were not being targeted in the process to change street names in Pretoria.

Ramokgopa said the decision "technically" rested with Arts and Culture Minister Paul Mashatile, and the Tshwane metro council wanted to meet with him to discuss the matter.

Beyers said the ANC was a "dishonest" negotiating partner.

"During the negotiations, the ANC, in the person of the mayor himself, made an offer to the FF Plus to retain Pretoria's name while a solution about the street names was being found. Nothing has come of this," he said.

It was a mistake to change historically sensitive names.

"There are enough neutral street names and new street names; after that, the ANC could use their heroes' names," said Beyers.

Comments
  • Hermann - 2012-03-31 07:42

    Does the ANC care about money - yes only when it can go into their own pockets for the rest the feel nothing.

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 08:29

      Refugee - 60%, down by 10% from last elections. How much more do you think it will drop next election?

      amananga - 2012-03-31 08:32

      Since the City of Cape Town is also on a process to change street names, I wonder if those will be free of charge or at what level will the ANC carry the blame

      spartanx93 - 2012-03-31 09:03

      The ANC mud pelicans are more concerned about some lousy street name, rather than feeding or housing their own people. Talk about mess up priorities.

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 09:12

      amananga - Thing is CT, is changing one or two streetnames, with apartheid connections (Verwoerd drive). ANC is changing 20-30 street names. Things like "Church street" etc.

      Refugee - 2012-03-31 09:18

      after that "refugee" comment and that "Mazibuko" issue expect a huge knock within the DA...The need the black vote yet within the part they dont want black people in high positions. Here is the fact about black people : we would rather not vote than vote for DA that why there was a drop and now its a matter of going back and convince those who didnt vote to vote

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 09:29

      Refugee - After the R20 billion annual corruption, and R1 billion spent by ANC MP's on luxury vehicles, and the Jacob vs Julius spat, and the Aurora mines scandal, and the thousands of open toilets in Freestates, and the numerous service delivery protests, and the eToll, expect a big drop in the ANC next elections. The ANC needs your vote yet they dont want to see intelligent, competent black people in power. Only greedy connected cadres. Unfortunately its getting so desperate, that people who dispise the DA will be voting for them. Thats how bad the ANC is nowadays.

      Tanie - 2012-03-31 10:17

      If there was no budget for the name changes, they wouldn't be doing it in the first place. Name changes are for the good of me and you in this way, I affirm that South Africa is mine and remind you that this is not Holland. You get it? herrrrrmaaaannnhhhh

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 12:13

      South Africa is also mine, I remind you that this isnt Zimbabwe. You get it?

      bluzulu - 2012-04-01 07:15

      This cost is a drop in the ocean considering RSA's GDP. So lets move on with creating more RSA history. Now is the time for the NEW RSA history. Get on board OR...........

  • Refugee - 2012-03-31 07:43

    DA sure killed this party, now they just barking and no one seems to be listening

      Grootrot - 2012-03-31 08:53

      Refugee, your OBE and that given to your generation is not only killing the party, but a whole generation of PDIs, they are what is called SDIs (Still Disadvantaged Individuals) - it is unfortunate that it is not being picked up by intellectuals like you. Then the DA is not mentioned in the article, still you refer to them. The barking is done by the FF+ and it is saying what people like you should be picking up and the message in is essence: For the garnering of a few quick votes, the ANC or a couple of its leaders will lie to its people and break its promises and spend a lot of money on useless nitty witty and fail to do what it is suppose to be doing - like educating the youth of SA. I would like to see a memorial of the Kerkstraat bombing with photos of all the women and children killed in the bomb blast along that of all the brave MK cadres that bravely planted that bomb!

      Refugee - 2012-03-31 09:10

      The MK did what had to be done at the time because of the state this country was in and i believe it still is. its just unfortunate that in the world we live in its every men for them selves and its unfortunate on the way up some people have be sacrificed.. Politicians all lie whether we like it or not .

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 09:18

      "Politicians all lie", but the ruling party, lies, cheats and steals on a grand scale.

      bzengetwa - 2012-03-31 13:53

      Refugee you are embarrassing me man, your comment is retarded. do you follow politics or you some lousy arrogant fool with a dead brain matter??? ANC has worsen people's standard of living for the past 18 years and all they care about is celebrations, naming of streets and giving away low grant to gain votes.

      Jonathan - 2012-03-31 16:28

      Refugee, are your postings an indication of your level of responcibility towards your country. I surely hope that your views are not representative of all black people in SA, if so we are all going down in flames.

  • Dikgapeng - 2012-03-31 07:46

    honestly i don't think it's important to change the street names, as it is going to cause complications and instead of spending so much money on street names why don't they use it to improve school facilities in rural areas not forgetting that there are still many services which haven't been delivered.

      Rob - 2012-03-31 08:57

      amanga: If you are thinking about, and affected by the name of the street whilst you are driving then two things appear very obvious: 1. You have nothing better to do, so why not become productive? 2. You are not paying enough attention to your driving and other road users, probably should not have a lisence to drive. Get real, deal with important things that can really impact on the future instead of living in the past.

      amananga - 2012-03-31 09:07

      @ Critical I surel would think you can engage and exchange views, I have stated mine and I really can't figure out what you're saying. 1. Are you saying its not important to you so it shouldn't be important to me? 2. Are you saying you have forgotten about the past so we should forget about it too? How different is what you're saying to telling a raped woman to forget about it.

      Rob - 2012-03-31 10:14

      amananga: You knoe exactly what I am saying, but just in case...I will repeat myself. Get real and deal with the future. Now, if you were personally violated by the person who the street is named after I am not suggesting that you should pretend that it didn't happen, but it will be a real benefit for you to accept, deal with it and move on. But if you were not persoanlly violated then you are dealing with your own mental constructs....of course you are entitled to them, but at the same time you should try to understand that they are yours and nobody elses AND they are only real in the sense that they are in your head. So, now go back to what I am saying, make an effort to work with the future.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 10:32

      Good point Amananga. Do we really have to keep calling these names everyday of our lives? Not at all. We need to call and drive in names of our hereos, the hereos that brought us liberation. @Dikgapeng, the issues in service delivery is not unavailablity of funds. Its mismanagement and corruption. So, your suggestion wont help in any way.

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 12:12

      OOM KRIEL - Only a fool will think renaming a street will give him an education and a job and self-respect.

      bzengetwa - 2012-03-31 13:58

      @amananga, Dude it is not about the people, it is about the history behind the naming of the properties. firstly a street was created and named after the person who brought about development of that particular property or street. so you being a coward by claiming something that was not you created by you. you cannot erase yesterday

      amananga - 2012-03-31 20:06

      Bzengetwa, firstly we are debating the issue of street naming in PTA and has nothing to do with my personal circuimstances or me being coward or brave and I view that aspect of your point as very narrow minded, Secondly your point about street naming being something to do with the developer makes me really question your IQ level seriously. We are talking here of streets named after the likes of Smuts who were responsible for the passing of the Native Land Act of 1913 which forced black people out of their land, Verwoed who formalised apartheid and many men who made us this divided society that we are today. Men who legislated racial division and left a legacy of hatred. I don't care who the streets are named after, even after you and this go a long way to healing the imbalances of the past.

  • Rowan Cranston - 2012-03-31 07:52

    Keep an eye on who gets the tender for the street name changing....

      werner.smidt - 2012-04-02 09:11

      Which is really what it's all about :)

  • Cathy - 2012-03-31 08:03

    Really? And this has not been the case since the first name changes came into effect? This policy has cost the country big time! Why not spend the money on housing, eduction and medical facilites? Genius news reporting by the way!!! NOT

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 10:38

      The problem in poor service delivery is not shortage of funds, its mismanagement and corruption. So, I see no point of pouring more money in a vessel with big holes. This money was allocated for name change, so use it for that.

  • Genesistt - 2012-03-31 08:08

    More money in the water that has to come out of my pocket in the form of higher taxes and levies. Yay.

  • michelle.kirsten - 2012-03-31 08:12

    Well it must be terrible for the poor and homeless to beg on Voortrekker street! Let's change it to Sipho Drive, then they'll feel empowered. Look I agree that change is good, but there are so many more worthy causes!!

      amananga - 2012-03-31 10:12

      That's an insult and a racist statement Spartan

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 10:40

      @spartan, cry baby cry. bring kleenex please... lol

      Themba - 2012-03-31 11:03

      spartan, go and hug a tree you sad little person

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 11:33

      We love you too Spartan... lolset

  • Rashida - 2012-03-31 08:15

    I DONT THINK ITS IMPORTANT TO CHANGE THE STREETS NAMES.MANY CHILDREN ARE ORPHANS WHY DONT GOVERMENT MAKE MORE SHELTERS FOR THE STREET KIDS OR THERE ARE MANY OTHER WAYS TO USE THAT MONEY.SPEND IT ON THE CHILDREN BECAUSE THEY ARE THE LEADERS OF TOMORROW.

      amananga - 2012-03-31 08:44

      Try and find out why is it important to others and understand.

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 09:22

      amananga - Try and find out why its important for others and understand why you shouldnt change the street names.

      amananga - 2012-03-31 10:08

      We are the ones who suffered in the past and felt the difficulties and no one else should ttell us to get over with it. You tell that to those who grew without parents. people disappeared without a trace at the hands of the regimes of the verwoeds and Malans.

      amananga - 2012-03-31 10:08

      We are the ones who suffered in the past and felt the difficulties and no one else should ttell us to get over with it. You tell that to those who grew without parents. people disappeared without a trace at the hands of the regimes of the verwoeds and Malans.

      Themba - 2012-03-31 11:05

      sinudeity, the name "Malan" may be precious to you as it reminds you of your apartheid dynasour who made sure you thrived as a white person in South, but everytime I see it it reminds me of the hatred and subjugation simply because I am black. That is why it must go, verstaan jy

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 12:01

      Themba - Like I have said, changing apartheid related names is fine. But why change things like "Church street"? Verstaan jy?

      Themba - 2012-03-31 12:18

      Sinudeity, hier is wat jy eers gese boeta: "Try and find out why its important for others and understand why you shouldnt change the street names." Now that you seem to have changed your mind, ek verstaan jou boeta

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 13:23

      Themba - I just reversed the original statement to try and make you see the opposite side of the spektrum. Earlier dated posts stated, that I dont mind renaming of apartheid related street names. There arent many of those left. This name-change thing is merely political. Its easy to turn on the white-hatred of black people. One method is to threaten to rename streets. You rename things like "Church" and "Main" street, and then the racists will assume, that its actually apartheid street names that are being changed. Meanwhile...

  • Hugo - 2012-03-31 08:26

    Why not add the Names to newly built streets or if a street is majorly upgraded then it perhaps warrents a name change. Afrikaans street Names like Potgieter as an example should be respected as well.

  • africanwolf - 2012-03-31 08:29

    I suggest to name streets after people who had something to do with building these streets, and not after people who had nothing to do with it. build new streets and call them what you want, leave old streets alone.

  • Herman - 2012-03-31 08:37

    People oposing name changes should not pay for this, only people that want the names to change must pay for it fromtheir own pockets. This proofes the ANC IS A BUNCH OF RACISTS!!!!!

      amananga - 2012-03-31 09:56

      Contact the City of Cape Town for further info

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 10:42

      @amananga, thank you.

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 12:09

      amananga - "Contact the city of Cape Town" So you dont know? Why bring up a discussion if you have no facts on it?

  • Christelle - 2012-03-31 08:43

    Maps, etc. are changed over time, so to say ti will cost milliosn is really pushing it.

  • Piet - 2012-03-31 08:46

    Let those retards pay for the name changes out of there own pockets and see how far they get.....Then pay all expences to the the people involved...

  • Matase - 2012-03-31 08:51

    that money must be used to subsidise fuel and part of the gauteng highway improvment project

  • Ian - 2012-03-31 08:57

    One thing I have a problem with ANC, even though I still vote for them, is that it lacks proper planning. ANC needs to have its priorities straight. How the hell is changing the names going to help poor people in Pretoria. Even though changing the names is important, but it is not the priority. Remember we black people are voting you because for sentimental reasons i.e. Struggle credentials and that there are no alternative parties. 20 years from the political landscape would have changed. Your friends you put in positions are damn lazy.

      an0nthinker - 2012-03-31 09:25

      @Ian How much longer are you going to vote for a party that isn't doing anything for it's people? Every year it's the same. How long before they have everything and we sit with nothing?

      hoyingomane - 2012-03-31 09:36

      Our people must remain in power no matter what@Ian

      Rob - 2012-03-31 10:36

      hoyingomane: For as long as you see this as a power issue you will be stuck in the past. Government is about administration not power. Elected representatives are there for the benefit of all in South Africa. Maybe maturity will come one day, and then we will all be living in a better place.

      Bless Boswell - 2012-03-31 10:45

      Ian, do you really think there is room for sentimentality where people's lives are at stake? When you cast you vote you should do so because that's what you REALLY believe. Not because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside.

      Themba - 2012-03-31 11:08

      "Remember we black people are voting you because for sentimental reasons i.e. Struggle credentials and that there are no alternative parties." You sound like a Zimbabwean who kept voting for corruption until he had to crawl under a barbed wire and come crowding SA. Wake up!Ian mfana

      valcooperRSA - 2012-03-31 15:14

      I'm sure the struggle ended a few years ago.....you live sooo in the past...this cANCer that is eating away at this country is just what it is...A.......c*ANC*erous ...bunch of ...PARASITES

  • snagdee - 2012-03-31 08:59

    A waste of money,time and effort..

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 11:10

      according to who?

  • Martini De Villiers - 2012-03-31 09:09

    And there goes another part of Afrikaner heritage because our is the only one that the government doesn't give a damn about!!!

  • hdbrink - 2012-03-31 09:19

    I want to write hate mail to the council but no one reads it anyway. I refuse my tax to be used for this "popularity quest" in the run up to the ANC leadership campaign. Should they not first teach us who the heck some of these "icons" are to deserve a main street in the capital city. Where is the "unity in diversity" this is just a way to replace one part of history with another instead of promoting both.

  • Morne - 2012-03-31 09:20

    Rather spend that money on the poor!

  • hoyingomane - 2012-03-31 09:33

    "It was a mistake to change historically sensitive names" my left foot!africa for africans.

      Rob - 2012-03-31 10:58

      hoyingomane: Now define 'africans'!!!!!

      malcolm.molver - 2012-03-31 14:44

      I'm an African you retard. I was born here, so thus I'm an African. Take that and shove it up your @ss! Amazing how the oppressed have become the oppressors- biggest racists I've ever seen and you prove that!

      valcooperRSA - 2012-03-31 15:19

      @hoyingmane....then go back to the part of africa you came from....this part of Africa actually did belong to the Bushmen....Koi People KoiSan...so put that in your pipe and smoke it....you all migrated from top of Africa...I'm so sick of these whinging people I can't puke anymore i puked enough already

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 15:31

      Poor Malcom, you can’t help it hey? You can only use indecent and insulting statements to state your point. Apartheid style! Your parents have done a good job in you. Well done dude, keep it up. I’m enjoying seeing you like that coz I can imagine your face turning red in the process of making your point heard HAHAHAHAHA..Shame

  • Gideon - 2012-03-31 09:37

    If they want to do this they should do it when there is eh actually eh money for it.

  • Frank - 2012-03-31 09:40

    Stuff the poor! Let them change names and squander tax money as if not for the stupidity of the poor to vote these thieves into power every time, they wouldn't be poor! Let them eat cake, even if it comes out of a rubbish bin!

  • Logan Porter - 2012-03-31 09:48

    What a waste of tax payers money

  • tmukosi - 2012-03-31 09:53

    Street names should be changed because these white people still have the feeling that this country is still theirs and blacks dont belong here...I'm talking from experience...

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 10:05

      No, street names need to be changed so that certain individuals can believe that white people had nothing to do with building the country. They think whites dont belong here... Im talking from experience.

      Bless Boswell - 2012-03-31 10:40

      That's not true. Changing the name of a street suddenly makes you feel like you belong?? Changing the name is not going to change history. We all belong here. It's only a small minority that have a problem - both black and white. If they can't live here then they must find somewhere else to live and spread their poison.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 11:00

      @Sinudity, you are right there, whites played a role in "building" the country hence they have their names palced everywhere. Now, we are changing the names to honor the people who have played significant role in bringing liberation and making SA what it is now, whether that category is met by a white or black, to me it doesnt matter, relevant authority will decide who. So I see no point to resist the change. @Bless,blacks and whites equally belong to this country. We just need to be tolerant of each other here. Its a fact that, the current names we call everyday have played very minimal role to liberate the majority of this country. This is a democratic country and majority rules. So lets not resist change imposed by majority in a democratic country.

      Morne - 2012-03-31 11:31

      @Bless, 100% with you.

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 12:05

      siyadyosiba - Heres an idea, you "build" something, then you can rename it. If the name is offensive (apartheid connection), rename it. Otherwise, dont rename a street just to stroke your ANC cock.

      Thami - 2012-03-31 12:42

      @siyadyosiba, take a drive down Voortrekker street in Gezina in the evening and see how many people are sleeping on the side of the street. I think we would honour our struggle heroes by making sure those people are taken care of rather than change Voortrekker to something else. I, for 1 can live with the street name remaining if that money is used to improve the lives of the people who sleep there.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 12:50

      @Thami, do you know the main reason why they are sleeping there? If you know, you have an answer to that statement you posted.

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 13:24

      siyadyosiba - "do you know the main reason why they are sleeping there? If you know, you have an answer to that statement you posted." Apartheid? Or maybe its because the ANC corruption totals R20 billion annually. And then, instead of building houses for the people sleeping on the street, it would rather rename the friggin street.

  • George Mabunda - 2012-03-31 09:56

    bt dis names hv been de 4 ages so its our turn nw plus we r in power n we do hv money so why nt

      Bless Boswell - 2012-03-31 10:37

      George, that's just plain dof. The ANC does not have the money and is in debt to the tune of millions. They are creating new debt when they have not even paid their other bills. Would you not rather have really nice schools for your kids or a nice retirement home for your aged than new street names?

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 10:49

      @Bless, you are right ANC doesnt have money, that is why the name change is done by the government (you and me) not ANC. Hope you now enlightened.

      Themba - 2012-03-31 11:10

      Mabunda sit down and shut up

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 13:25

      South Africa's foreign debt is almost a trillion rand.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 14:26

      @Sinudeity, inherited from previous regime.

      malcolm.molver - 2012-03-31 14:48

      George and Siya, you guys really aren't that bright hey? The light upstairs must be really dim. Your argument that we have money and can thus do it is severely flawed! The money will be better spent on uplifting the poor and improving service delivery. Seriously, what will changing stupid street names do for us? Bet you dumb idiots can't answer that!

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 15:19

      Ok, bright Malcom, the constant under-spending by government departments, education and health in particular, means they are broke in your very intellegent mind hey? I wont play your game and call u anything like idiot as you did. Respect is what I was taught by my parents and I am glad not to be one of your kind.

  • Henry - 2012-03-31 10:01

    'tis sometimes amazing that our Govt embarks on unnecessary projects, like street name changes just to please some ruling party (members) there are essential issues they shuold be focusing on (job creation for example) street changes is just unnecessary. Shame on taxpayers, as they'll foot the bill.

  • Logan Porter - 2012-03-31 10:05

    Mmmmm

  • Jacques - 2012-03-31 10:12

    You know, I don't care. Because they can change the names, break everything down, leave it all to turn to dust- they can NEVER change the past. No amount of votes can change the past. So change the names. Ons Afrikaners het dit gebou! Dis nie asof daar name sou wees om te verander as dit nie vir ons was nie!

      Themba - 2012-03-31 11:21

      Jacques, what are you smoking boet? Blacks and whites built this country - TOGETHER!

      Jacques - 2012-03-31 12:26

      I might come across as this real "Afrikaner volk" lunatic, I really am quite liberal, but honestly. Who started sasol? Whose millitary was literally world class in spite of all the sanctions against SA? So ja. Everyone was here, but the prosperity was brought about by Afrikaners and that is a fact. Today everything is "in decay". To be in decay it had to be working at some stage- who made it work? Think about it.

      Themba - 2012-03-31 12:38

      "Quite liberal?" Do you even understand what you are saying? It's time to go and take your medication boeta

      Jacques - 2012-03-31 13:28

      You see, this also proves a thing or two. I'm expecting an effort of convincing me otherwise, but all I get is a patronising name and some idiotic "time for your meds" line. I know exactly what liberal mean. I also know a thing or two about history. Not a lot. But something. So please. Either make an effort or take a hike. Boet.

      rrakoma - 2012-04-01 23:52

      Here is a point for you Jaques, 'Interception! Now our team has the ball'. Look buddy this is Africa, the gold, platinum, coal and diamonds that funded your beautiful exploits, your armys, your science project, your architecture was our to begin with, heck we should have hired the Yanks, paid them in gold, maybe they would have build better power stations that accomodate the majority of the country. That argument about we did this and we did that is tired, you where guys we unwitingly hired and you got paid well for it, but ITS OVA lets move on for crying out loud. I mean we embraced white ppl, we chose to forgive, and not slaughter, we are a kind race and you should be thankful and carry on playing your part in making SA better for all.

  • elize.wessels - 2012-03-31 10:20

    I dont know why we should spend millions on street name changes if there is people living in shacks and on the street. Can this money rather be used for things that will realy make a differance in peoples lifes? A street name is not going to keep me warm or put food in my tummy. I think they must as the people if they would rather have a house or would they preffer a streets name to change?

      Dok Mbini - 2012-03-31 11:03

      thanks Elize you couldn't have said this better, id rather have bread and starch water than 'change' of my residential street from Schoeman to Khumalo

  • Bless Boswell - 2012-03-31 10:33

    Trying to obliterate the whites' part in the history of this country is not going to change anything. To change names is no more than window dressing. Spend the money on something worthwhile - like homes, food, medical facilities, children or the aged - or even settling some of its very overdue accounts. But, perhaps in the eyes of the ANC this is not worthwhile - putting their stamp on something is much more important. I wonder which corrupt entity is going to get the signage contract?

  • Logan Porter - 2012-03-31 10:37

    What a waste of tax payers money! I am sure map studios, Tom Tom and garmin are not complaining

  • Johann - 2012-03-31 10:39

    Realy what a noise when union became a republic the nats changed names big time and now they are gone so is their names ecept van Schalkwyk who also underwent some name changes 1 kort broek2 sonder broek when he got into bed with the DA 3 stertriem since getting in to bed with the ANC..And as sure as the moon follow the sun these ANC names will disappear but only much faster

  • siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 10:46

    Change the names to honor heroes who brought liberation in SA. Dutch heroes can do the same in Ducth countries. Talking of millions of rands, it really doesnt matter whether its thousands or millions, what needs to be done have to be done.

      Bless Boswell - 2012-03-31 10:56

      I agree with your sentiments - but do you think that changing the name of the Baragqanath Hospital to honour Chris Hani has honored him? No, it hasn't - the hospital is a disgraceful danger zone. Equipment vital for saving lives is broken because bills have not been paid, more babies die there than ever before. The mortuary staff put their lives at risk every day because the fridges don't work properly and they have no protective clothing. This honours Chris Hani? I think not.

      Bless Boswell - 2012-03-31 11:01

      Sure, but don't do it to the detriment of the people. Do it when there is accommodation, medical care, food and jobs for all. Do it when they have something they can be proud of. Don't you think?

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 11:07

      @Bless, so you think changing the name to De Klerk or Verwoed Hospital will suddenly change the situation. I'm failing to get your point. "Detriment of the people" who are you talking about here?

      Rob - 2012-03-31 11:16

      Bless, you may well be correct in what you say about giving such issues less time and effort, maybe sooner or later the utter pointlessness of it all may sink in. But I do have a problem with resources being diverted away from areas needing practical improvement such as education, health, and other social infrastructures.

      malcolm.molver - 2012-03-31 14:50

      Siya, your stupidity really is astounding. You dumb racist retard.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 15:23

      Thanks Malcom, I still have not heard any point from you. your comments are just bubbles in water, only indicating presence of air, what kind still unknown.

  • Johann - 2012-03-31 10:46

    @Tmukosi you amase me you nundu aren't we. All equal before the law and don't this country belong to all of us your remark has proven you for what you are a rabbit racist

  • Elsie - 2012-03-31 11:04

    Why change names the future generation won't worry who it is named after. Spend the money on the poor (black and white)

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 11:22

      As a matter of fact they will do. My son asked me the other day "daddy who is Verwoed?", that was a very difficult question to answer.

      Themba - 2012-03-31 11:31

      Elsie is a sangoma - she can see into the future as relates to how "the future generation" will think :)

      Elsie - 2012-03-31 12:24

      @ siya and Themba,, what would fill your child"s belly a street name or a plate of food.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 12:38

      @Elsie, does changing the name take away food from my child?

      Themba - 2012-03-31 12:43

      Elsie do you honestly think that when the United Party pretended that SA was little England and started naming everything after the English they knew that one day the Nats will take over and rename everything after HF Verwoerd, Andries Treurnicht, DF Malan, Hertzog and other apartheid dynasours? Of course not! That is why I admire your sangoma powers to know before hand what the future generation will "worry" about when it comes to SA's history, which is where the names come from. To answer your question: food

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 13:27

      siyadyosiba - "As a matter of fact they will do. My son asked me the other day "daddy who is Verwoed?", that was a very difficult question to answer." You mean you didnt take the time to educate your son about apartheid? I guess thats good news. Your son wount rely on 'wit gevaar' to vote ANC. You see, Verwoerd street is about history.

      Elsie - 2012-03-31 13:47

      A person cam teach their child everything eventually it up to the children to use what they were taught. When a person drives down a famous street name, eg verwoed,,,, are they going to have a history lesson or continue listening to the musuc they play

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 14:31

      @Sinudeity, it was difficult in a sense that I had to be careful not to instil hatred against whites to my son. I'm not like white parents who raise their children to spit on black people in gyms, let alone killing a homeless. I learnt the better way, forgiveness and forge forward for the better of all of us and thats what I'm teachning my children.

      Elsie - 2012-03-31 15:48

      Good for you siya,,,, I guess your child is still young,,,And you got it wrong that whites teach their kids to spit on blacks,,,,I taught my kids not to hate other race and my kids played with black kids,,,,the mistake people make is if one white hate blacks then all whites hate blacks and vice versa

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 16:06

      @Elsie, my son is 9, yes still very young and vulnerable age. I did not mean all whites teach their children that, I'm talking about the ones that instil superiority mentality over blacks on the children. Sorry, if it sounded general, if you are amongst the good parents, I'm happy. At least we still have a chance of making this country a better place for our grand children.

      Elton - 2012-04-02 11:06

      @ siyadyosiba - My 6 year old asked me the other day why blacks hates whites so much? Asking why, she said she saw it at school and on TV. Careful dude, you have become the Verwoerd and PW Botha now...

      Elton - 2012-04-02 11:09

      @ siyadyosiba - In 1993 whites voted in a 80% majority to have a black government in a referendum you racist prick. Are all black criminals??? Stop to justify your sick racism by thinking all whites are bad.

  • Manu - 2012-03-31 11:18

    I find it strange that any SA should be against the change of street names. Maybe it's the result of living with unrealistic expectations. To understand what I mean, suppose you buy a house. Is it reasonable for the previous owner to say, "don't change anything in this house that I have sold you because it has sentimental value for me and my family. The painting and grandpa and grandma must always hang over the fire place, the walls must remain a light shade of blue becuase our son Joubert painted it, ..."? Marking your territory gives people a sense of belonging. Why expect anything less from the majority of this country? Symbols are important and it is reasonable to expect that the majority will want to reshape their environment to enhance their sense of belonging. It's just human nature.

      Themba - 2012-03-31 11:29

      Manu you are comparing public property with private property. SA belongs to all who live in it, blacks and whites - as the Freedom Charter says. Your house belongs to you. If SA belongs to all who live in it, it must also look like it belongs to all who live in it, not just the majority. Your argument is no different from that which the Nats made when they named everything after their apartheid heroes because at that time, they saw SA as "white" and you and and I "belonged" in Bantustans. Yes by all means, names such as Verwoerd must go because they represent the system that was declared a crime against humanity. But other names which had nothing to do with the oppression of one race by another should not be wiped off. By the way, the majority to which you refer includes whites who vote for the corrupt ANC, Kortbroek and his family being one of them

      Bless Boswell - 2012-03-31 11:35

      I agree with you, but would you reprint the house if you didn't have money for food? In the issue under discussion, government is making that decision for you. It's saying we're changing the names, even though we cannot provide houses or better education for you. Sorry. They have not asked what the people want. They have decided that this is necessary - more important than food or housing. How do you feel about this?

      Manu - 2012-03-31 11:49

      Themba the point of my house example was that "When you do not dominate you can't expect to dictate." The language of the FFP is as if they still own the place. If it were me I would compromise and say ok these are new times and we are willing to surrender names A, B, C and D but we would like names E, F and G to remain. But to say NO there should be no name changes is so unrealistic. But you are correct the country belongs to ALL and it's reasonable for us to expect that it's character reflects the ALL. The problem is that although there is the idea that the country belongs to ALL, the character of the country still reflects the FEW. For the FEW to expect the MAJORITY to leave things as is for the benefit of the FEW is unrealistic. For your interest the NATs were a MINORITY who dictated the fate of a MAJORITY. Those roles have reversed. The power is now in the hands of the MAJORITY. To expect the MAJORITY to adopt a passive role is unrealistic.

      Manu - 2012-03-31 12:07

      Bless Boswell, of course if you have to decided whether to buy food or clothing, the normal person will always prioritise food ... but only if they are not naked. If they are naked the priorities reverse. So when you enter your house you will plant something to mark your presence to say, "I belong here." It doesn't have to be a big thing. Now how many streets does Pretoria have? I presume thousands. In the context of the bigger picture is changing the name of 27 streets such a big deal? Yes its going to cost money, but that money will be spread over many people. The cost to the individuals will be manageable.

      Bless Boswell - 2012-03-31 12:08

      @manu: I think the minority would adopt a much more passive role if the ruling party had not made such a mess of everything.

      Themba - 2012-03-31 12:10

      Manu, ever heard about the "tyranny of the majority?" Mugabe is raping his country in the name of the majority. In SA, once the majority has voted, there is not much else it can do. It does not even elect its representatives remember? The ANC makes up a list. That is why the so-called representatives don't give a rat's ass about their constituency. As long as their handlers in the ANC are happy, stuff the majority. The vote of the majority is being be used to fix what is not broken, such as to force down our throats the Info Bill when everyone knows that the ruling party is only interested in covering up corruption and punishing the media for exposing it. The majority my friend, is hardly dictating anything. Ask any squatter camp resident whether he/she cares about name changes. Their concern is service delivery, jobs and food security. By the way, if the majority was "dictating" at all, they would not be on the streets every week toyi-toying

      Rob - 2012-03-31 12:14

      Manu: 'Dictate, dominate'. Sounds like you want to live an an oppresive society. If that is where SA is, or is going to, then it will be joining North Korea, Cuba and a few other countries. Is that really what you want, and before you answer do consider that dictators and dominators are guided by the self interest of the few.

      Bless Boswell - 2012-03-31 12:15

      Changing the names of 27 streets requires at least the following: every sign needs to be changed, all stationery of every business in those streets needs to change, every map finder on Garmin, Tom Tom etc will have to change as will the digital maps on the web. It's huge and unnecessary right now. Surely it can wait until we are not in a recession? Industry is reeling, people are losing jobs and going hungry - and now, changing names is a priority? Really?

      Manu - 2012-03-31 12:20

      Themba, FYI Mugabe represents a minority and not a majority. He lost the last elections. Of course he may want to argue that he does but the numbers say otherwise. As for the tyranny of the majority, that would aptly apply to Nazi Germany. Do you believe that there exists a tyranny of the majority in SA?

      Themba - 2012-03-31 12:36

      Manu, the "majority" is mere voting fodder. The current Zuma administration is using its majority in a tyrannical way. Was the voting majority consulted on e-tolls? What about the spiralling petrol and food prices? The Info Bill? The rampant corruption where only the ANC connected are beneficiaries of BEE? In short, the answer is yes: we are officially experienceing the tyranny of the majority in the form of the ruling party using its majority in the legislature while claiming to represent the majority when in fact they are representing themselves

  • Bless Boswell - 2012-03-31 11:31

    @siyadyosiba: I can't get this comment to go where it should - hope you see it! What I am saying is - lets not fight the name change now, in fact let's not do it now. Because its not going to better the lives who need it most. Let's rather address the issues of accommodation, health care, job creation etc, and then, when that's under control, then look at changing names. That way, it may actually have a more positive outcome. Is there any point in spending money honouring fallen heroes when the majority of the people have informal housing, empty tummies and inadequate schooling?

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 11:51

      Now I hear your point Bless. My argument is , service delivery ills are not caused by shortage of funds, its mismanagement and corruption. To me it doesn’t make sense to stop all other things we could do simply because we have a problem with addressing these two causes of poor service delivery. In my view, they can go concurrently as they are disparate issues. Name change something to do with honouring people and addressing service delivery problems has something to do with “how to run the business”.

      Bless Boswell - 2012-03-31 12:05

      Gotcha! But ... How to get them to feed, educate and house before they go and spend funds on something non-edible and non-essential? Do the people of SA have no recourse against those who raid the coffers? Can they not have lifestyle audits and be brought to book? We all only have one crack at life - does government not care about this at all. Some people out there will never experience a fair deal, or even a normal life. The very people they represent are the ones who suffer most ...

      Manu - 2012-03-31 12:14

      siyadyosiba, I agree with you. Maybe others should consider that there are many things that cities spend/waste money on that could be better used to help the poor, e.g., build houses. For example catering. Thousands are spent on feeding people sitting in meetings. If people knew how money is used by City fathers they would see that changing street names is a minor issue.

      Themba - 2012-03-31 12:23

      siyadyosiba, how about using that money to take the incompetent civil servant to courses on "how to run the business"? and once they can run the business, start with the name changes. Honestly, what is more pressing? Street name changes or social and economic rights? I have yet to see the "majority" toyi-toying for street name changes

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 12:43

      @Themba, we already have sectors and programmes to address that need and the custodians, ie DTI, SETAs etc, of those programmes are under spending every year because people are either not utilizing these opportunities or they don’t know that they exist. Does that mean there are no funds? No. Funds are not an issue here, please comprehend this fact.

      Thami - 2012-03-31 13:24

      @siyadyosiba: so instead of cleaning up and trying to improve the "mismanagement and corruption" lets change focus from these real issues to something that's not going to really honour our fallen heroes? That is so sad! @Themba: well said, the young men sitting on the side of the street trying to find a job are not going to benefit from street name changes.

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 13:32

      Funds are an issue here. Otherwise the government wouldnt be bringing in e-Tolls for additional funding.

  • Bless Boswell - 2012-03-31 11:48

    @siyadyosiba: I don't think I am missing the boat at all. What it all boils down to us this ... Government is contemplating spending money it does not have to do something that is not going to enrich the lives of those who need it most. Those who should have benefited from the new regime are not - they are still poor, hungry and have no formal education or accommodation. This is true - yes? How can you justify spending money on something that is not essential right now when our people (and yes, I belong here too - I am a 10th generation South African) are hungry and don't have jobs. Those names have remained unchanged since 1994 - let them stay there until there is enough in the coffers to go round and then change them. If you were to ask those who do not have what they prefer - food or new names, what do you think their answers would be?

      Rob - 2012-03-31 11:54

      You know what, there will be people who deserve a street name....people who will have done something practical about improving the life of poor people. But, right now there are no votes in it!

      Elsie - 2012-03-31 11:58

      Well said, because how many people do worry about street names.

      Elsie - 2012-03-31 12:06

      @ criticialyhonest,,,,are the poor going to eat street names to fill their belly.

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 12:33

      @Bless, I am now concluding you will never a get my point. What I am saying here is “money is not a problem is SA, corruption and mismanagement of funds is. Departments are under spending every financial year, yet they are not delivering what they supposed to. Now, my question is, does the Department of Arts and Culture have to halt everything else because other departments are not doing their jobs?The answer is hell NO, they can’t afford to. Why, there are people who are appointed to address these problems ie Department of Education, Human Settlements, Health etc.

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 13:32

      siyadyosiba - Money is a problem in SA dude. Why do you think Julius and his clowns want to bring in nationalisation?

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 14:40

      @Sinudeity, to ensure that wealth of the country is shared proportionately. Does that enlighten you or you require more elaboration? In simple terms, the masses must reap the fruits of their land equitably.

      tobydt - 2012-04-01 05:46

      siyadyosiba - You dont seem to have all the facts you need for this debate.

  • Bless Boswell - 2012-03-31 11:58

    I embrace change gladly especially when it enhances and improves the quality of life for those who need it most. It is no secret that the government of the day has failed to enhance and improve the lives of the majority - the very people they represent. They have shamelessly enriched themselves and offer no apology for it. I don't care who governs the country - but only that it be done fairly and provides opportunities for all. The entity that can do this fairly, honestly and without corruption or greed will have my vote. (or am I building castles in the sky?).

  • Thami - 2012-03-31 12:28

    This is window dressing. Please use that money to ensure there are no streets with sink holes in Tshwane. Please use some to encourage entrepreneurship and job creation. Please use some of it to clean up Marabastad, etc. What a street is called is not as important as whether it has potholes or not. Please use that money to subsidise the Tshwane part of the e-tolling, etc

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 12:46

      U guys are either stupid or ignorant, is there any shortage of funds in Pretoria in the areas that you mentioned as needing attention?

      Themba - 2012-03-31 12:54

      siyadyosiba, do you mean there are no social and economic challenges in Pretoria? Marabastad must now be developed and there are no squatter camps and every employable person is employed? If not, then money could be channeled in those areas of development by the Department of rts and Culture don't you think

      siyadyosiba - 2012-03-31 13:12

      @Themba, my question was, are those challenges caused by shortage of funds? The answer is NO. If Minister Sexwale (Housing) and Minister Patel (Economic Development) are not doing their job, does it mean Minister Mashatile (Arts and Culture)must not do his own job? The answer is NO. Why, they are all funded to carry out their individual mandates. Is this difficult to comprehend guys? Really.

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 13:30

      syadyosiba - This is the fourth attempt to try and rename Pretoria. It has already failed. Now to stroke the ego of the ANC mayor, he's targetting streets. And yes, there is a shortage of funds. Education in South Africa is the lowest in Africa. 25% unemployment. Over R800 billion worth of foreign debt.

      tobydt - 2012-03-31 13:31

      In fact, with the money wasted on street renaming, you could have built more streets and named if after whoever you wanted to.

  • Rob - 2012-03-31 12:47

    Why not manage street name changes in the same manner as street closures. If the owners of the properties in the street agree to a name change, then start the proces.....and maybe make the property owners contribute to the costs.

  • Jo - 2012-03-31 13:00

    Yesterday this was posted: Wilna - March 29, 2012 at 23:28 It would be a good thing if these people would remember what Mandela said when the ANC came into power and wanted to change all names everywhere; he said "No! if you want to honour the heroes of the struggle, go build new buildings and bridges and streets and towns and name those after your heroes. But leave the names that are there already -- those names are also part of our history and should never be eradicated" It looks like today's ANC has forgotten those words.

      rrakoma - 2012-04-01 23:19

      hi Joe, here is what I call a #GlassBreakMoment, Mandela is not above the will of the people, in 94' he voted to save 'the boks', but the Northern Province was changed to Limpopo so Pretoria will be changed to Tswane. The thing you have to understand is that there are other heroes either than Mandela and we love them equaly, we lost fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, friends who fought just like Mandela or any other struggle hero, so Mandela is not our mesia, or our higher power, you cant base arguments on the words of one man.

  • bzengetwa - 2012-03-31 13:46

    I will support this street re-naming process if they offer to change 'Pretoria' to 'Zengetwa'. It is such a poor practice done by ANC, waste millions in renaming instead of constructing and create jobs.

  • Sharon - 2012-03-31 14:59

    I REALLY don't care what the street names are, but sure we can spend money, that we DON'T have, on something better. As someby previously said, fix the potholes that causes accidents and damages to our vehicles. Lets rebuild this beautiful country first and become a solid unity, then let the next generation worry about crap like this. Me, like I am sure every other white, brown, black person out there is more worried about food for my children and good health in a safe enviroment.

  • Jonathan - 2012-03-31 16:25

    for how long is the ANC still going to waste money on unimportant things like this. People are dying of hunger and sickness but changing street names are a bigger priority!!!! Don't vote ANC, they are destoying this country.

  • Robert - 2012-04-01 06:23

    Lead SA, because its the right thing to do

  • Kim - 2012-04-01 14:52

    Why worry about feeding the poor if you can change a street name???? Typical African mentality!!

  • Dejavu - 2012-04-01 19:57

    dis is is useless

  • werner.smidt - 2012-04-02 09:12

    It's naïve to believe this has anything to do with ideology . . . Cash. Money.

  • Patrick Craw - 2012-04-02 09:21

    why change when it's all fine,why spend millions for no reason,and how are we suppose 2 pronounce the names?just leave it,it's not necessary