Private healthcare a 'brutal' system

2011-10-09 22:21

Johannesburg - Health Minister Aaron Motsoaledi on Sunday said private healthcare was a "brutal" system because it had commercialised an essential service.

"How can we run such a brutal system...the government will not fold its arms when there is such rampant commercialisation in the healthcare sector," he said at a general practitioners' meeting in Durban.

He said the use of a public good for excessive profit was unacceptable, which was why the state had introduced the National Health Insurance (NHI).

Motsoaledi was consulting with general practitioners on the NHI as part of an interprovincial road show, following the release of the government's green paper in August.

He said private hospitals and specialists were receiving the majority of South Africa's R84bn health expenditure.

Private hospitals received R31.1bn and specialists received a total of R19bn.

"R14m goes to pharmaceuticals, R6.2bn goes to general practitioners and only the remainder [about R14bn] is for public healthcare and non-medical expenses."

The public would have till November to comment on the NHI discussion document.

A total of R125bn was estimated to be spent next year on preparations which include establishing 10 test sites.

  • crackerr - 2011-10-09 22:36

    OK. You Minister are a bloody fool. The real commercialization takes place when the staff who are supposed to act like caring health workers allow and even encourage the deaths of patients under the pretense of higher (understand "commercial") economic demands being made every year. You are a bloody fool.

      Charlie - 2011-10-10 02:11

      Yip, (1) better funding for health (less arms deals and expensive government buildings, gravy train trips and corruption) and (2) better management of health workers (not all - but some really have scandalously flawed values) will also make a huge difference to your department my beloved minister.....

      G.du Plessis - 2011-10-10 02:33

      If you make state health amazing like in Sweden or UK then people will switch. That's a big if though!

      Nunya - 2011-10-10 07:22

      Yes, but if you ministers get all run to the brutal system hospitals, idiot!!...let's see you first go to a government hospital.

      AMS-Dammer - 2011-10-10 08:12

      Mr Minister.... if your Cadre's in Govt, were competent and DID THEIR JOBS, placed COMPETENT PEOPLE in the CORRECT POSITIONS within the Health Dept, in the 1st Place, then all WILL BE HUNKY DORY!!!! As Nunya says, when you or your Cadre's get "SICK", you run to the very SAME BRUTAL SYSTEM for ATTENTION!!!!!!!!!! Get RID of those UNIONS IN GOVT HOSPITALS, and you WILL see things getting better.. Only took you 10 years to ROYALLY SCREW UP A FUNCTIONAL SYSTEM.... now pay attention and get things back on track, and leave the Private Health Care to the TAX PAYERS.... after all.... that is our ONLY guarrantee to quality of life and DIGNITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      MojoBa - 2011-10-10 08:36

      Agreed. That being said, Medical Aids are a rip off. They charge you exhorbitant premiums and then try to find any excuse not to pay your medical accounts. If you don't have a degree in their Medical Aid rules, you are stuffed.

      Koring - 2011-10-10 08:47

      @AMS, you have said it all. As usual, the ANC puts the cart before the horse. Why did Malema go to a private hospital for socalled flue, and not to a Gov hospital? If yo want to run an efficient system, then--1)--- Scrap AA and encourage more white matrics to train in this once nobel profession.-2-- Ban socalled "nurses Unions". The patient comes first, NOT your so-called pay packet and working conditions. 3---- Get back to basics at nurse colleges and teach EMPATHY, and CLEANLINESS. 1/2 these "nurses" who came from the raw outback don't have a clue what cleanliness and sterilization is. Just have a look at the claims in the EC against ANC run hospitals where "theartre nurses leave swabs and instruments inside bodies. What maths? they cant even count --- If you uses 14 swabs in an operation, surely before sewing up, you should have 14 bloody swabs in the bin afterwards? Maybe Malema was right.--- Too scared for a Gov hospital as they may have ended up discharging him to a morgue.

      Pollenated - 2011-10-10 09:18

      Crackerr, the medical aids allow us to die too. I've been very ill and was supposed to be admitted to hospitla twice in September but couldn't go in because pneumonia is not classified as a Prescribed Medical Benefit so I was expected to pay in a few thousand towards the hospital bill. As a pensioner that is impossible so I've just had to stay in bed. Both the government and medical aid need to upgrade themselves. If the NHI can get me treated for what is wrong with me then perhaps it isn't so bad after all. A medical aid, for which we pay a couple of thousand a month, that leaves you lying at home with pneumonia is no better than a government health scheme that doesn't care.

      crackerr - 2011-10-10 10:12

      @ Pollenated It is a deplorable situation. At least the more lucky ones have an alternative to public health care. Now that is also under attack. And for what? To achieve what? If they had any brains they would rather make medical aid available and affordable through subsidies if need be payable to medical aid funds for all and allow people the freedom to choose their doctors and health care facilities. To allow the government and officials to run the system after virtually monopolizing it underhandedly is disaster waiting. There is no reason under the sun to think the level of competence blah blah blah and whatever else will improve. Medial aid and costs is the one item that bothers us all - at least those who are not super rich. The level of competence seems to be deteriorating in this country instead of improving. Now they try to find excuses for it by shifting the focus to crappy arguments like the Minister is now using to discredit the only hope many have as an alternative to almost certain neglect or even death at the hands of the government sponsored public health care workers. They can try to find excuses and blame others but the fact remains that we are not experiencing an improvement in services. Very few people any longer really believe all the excuses. If the public hospitals and services were any good we would not have the scrambling by even public health care workers and trade unions for increased private medical aid packages in their remuneration.

      umlaut - 2011-10-10 12:29

      Yes cracker--this Aaron and his communist ideas must go to a private doctor and private hospital for some brain treatment. If he goes to the state HC he is definitely a goner. He is applying the anc recipe by nagging , nagging at people until they give in to an idea. They want to make the idea of Private health care a BAD thing with the masses and then they force the Death Chambers (state hospitals) onto us. Let this Aaron proof that state hospitals won't kill him or his family----they must from now ALL attend health care in their hospitals (ALL ANC MINISTERS AMD MEMBERS also) The Anc must not use private hospitals. If they still do, then THAT IS THE PROOF---STATE HOSPITALS ARE NOT TRUSTED BY THE ANC.(like malema)---Simple--- Good health care will be expensive--so everyone can choose the cheaper options in the system. A state hospital will be the parlour to the funeral parlour. One of the reasons africans from other states are coming illegally to this country is because of the health services. Even the killer state hospitals are better than what most of them have out there. Once they are settled with a good job here then they go for the private HC. Ask any of them. Tourists will avoid SA without private HC.

      texx - 2011-10-10 14:32

      Come guys we all know the only reason behind this is because it is privatised and therefore some fat politician is not getting a slice of that cake...... if the right person in government was getting paid we would never have heard of this

  • Spade - 2011-10-09 22:38

    If it were possible to replace private healthcare with an efficient and effective public alternative, then I will support such an endeavour. The ANC-led government has not really indicated that it is capable of pulling something like this off; in fact, its track record of mismanagement, corruption and paternalism seems to indicate we're better of with the "brutal" private healthcare until we can replace the brutal ANC government with a proper government.

      joshreader - 2011-10-10 02:13

      I agree with Spade. I have not read the NHI discussion document (although I intend to do so), but it is my understanding that it is lacking in key elements of substance and structure, that much of the minutiae has not been thought through (sound familiar?). This concerns me greatly. The implementation of such a widespread, complex and (many would argue) crucial system is a massive undertaking, of course. As the battle over so-called universal healthcare in America attests, this is highly contested territory. I wish I felt more confident about this. I don't. Perhaps it's a reflexive South African cynicism on my part. Or perhaps it's merely common sense. In today's SA, it's good to have a bit of both.

      Mattewis - 2011-10-10 10:22

      Exactly, Spade! Mr. Motsoaledi, the problem is that the ANC cannot run ANY system! There IS a public health care system in this country which YOUR government has run to oblivion - your Baragwanath hospital had 3200 active patient beds running during Apartheid! Rather than improve on that, you all but destroyed it, and so many other well-run provincial hospitals too. Frere Hospital in East London was world class in its day, now it is the epitome of ANC-corruption! YOU are the root cause of the fact that the profiteers have overrun the health care system. If YOUR government had acted with integrity, as opposed to the continuous scandals of R106M spent on parties, more millions spent on fraudulent rental agreements, tax payers supporting SEVEN wives & TWENTY+ children of their president, etc., there would have been no cause or reason for you to come up with this verbal drivel of yours. If only the government will "fold its arms" in stead of raping the tax base for their own personal benefit, we'd be better off! How can you even talk about this when your ANC Youth League plundered R66M from the tax payer for a singly PARTY? The only solution YOUR incompetent government can come up with to address the health care problem, is to further burden an already overburdened tax payer with your proposed half-baked so-called compulsory "government health care" system, which will create nothing other than further corruption on top of the current mind-blowing levels of it!

      Organist-1 - 2011-10-10 21:41

      Couldn't be better stated. I remember Groote Schuur Hospital in the 50's.. World class medical care, Hospitalisation free. outpatients fee 1 shilling ( 10cents) Wards were so clean you could have your food off the floor. Nurses who were caring, and kind. As Koring said earlier, The root problem lies with AA and Money. Gone is the Florence Nightingale empathy. Before the sustem is introduced ALL training colleges should have a major shake up and new recruits put through a grilling process to see if they are suitable for the Job waiting and expected from them. Hardly any white doctors accepted at Med universeties. and IF, 80% passrate for Grade 12 required where Black trainees are allowed in with a 55% pass rate. Would you like to be operated on by a greenhorn who just scraped through low standard exams or a doctor who graduated with a 90% honours pass? @pollinated, --- No don't slte medical aids in general,. There are good ones and there are deplorable ones. The choice is yours and in today's world as with everything else, you get what you paid for. Just remember that old saying --- The bitterness of poor quality long outlasts the joys of a cheap price. Select you medical aid and scheme carefully. My Med aid and scheme would have covered your hospital bill fully.

  • JohnPicarra - 2011-10-09 22:44

    Public healthcare is a 'brutal' system because the ANC ha destroyed it.

      cuz - 2011-10-10 03:04

      The Government is trying to deflect criticism of its poor management of the health sector on to the well-run private health system. The reasoning seems as follows: the public sector has been managed to the brink of collapse. The private sector continues to provide top-quality medical care, so much so that SA receives a significant amount of ‘medical tourism’ with foreigners coming to SA for high-quality care in our private hospitals. Despite the fact that taxpayers fund the public health system in its entirety, & despite the fact that they also fund the private sector out of their own pockets, the private sector represents some sort of ‘threat’ to the public sector. The ANC Government has a long history of attacks on the private sector. We need only look back at the last few years to see evidence of a sustained campaign to weaken or perhaps even eradicate private healthcare. It seems to have escaped the Government’s notice that the money spent on private health care is in addition to the money that taxpayers already spend on the public system. If the private sector did not exist, the public health care system would have the same resources it does now, but would have to take care of 20% more people than it currently does. Thus the hostility towards private health care seems misguided & lacking in logic. The debate about health has been hijacked so that it has become about costs of private care, instead of the ever worsening quality of the public health care system.

  • POLLENYS - 2011-10-09 22:44

    OK, so tell me why Malema and all the high ranking comrades always go to private helath care? Not to mention private schools? Ignoramus!

  • Coetzee - 2011-10-09 22:45

    I am a medical Dr in a Provincial Hospital. I do not quite understand the ministry's point of view. Does private medical institutions get funding from the state? Does greater public expenditure on private health decrease the funding to public health? Or increase the load on the already extremely strained public health sector? No, quite the opposite! What the ministry is trying to do is slaughter the goose who lays the golden eggs. I agree fully there is a major funding problem and resource shortage in public health, but they want to restrict and regulate free health economy, which in my view is self regulated by demand and availability. Thus we see yet another good idea, executed in the word way with the littlest possible foresight. I forsee a crippling of health in SA.

      leonard - 2011-10-09 23:02

      @Coetzee.......Thank you for the courage to voice an opinion whilst in the employ of Aaron.I hope you are not suspended or worse.If one looks back to the time of the evil Nat regime,SA had a world class health system both in the public and private sector.We now ONLY have this in the private sector.The question should be asked as to why this is?I am not a doctor or in the health profession but having followed the rapidly declining state of the public health sector must lay the blame fairly and squarely on gross incompetence by the ANC government.Government should be thankful for the fact that the private sector takes tens of thousands of potential state patients out of state hospitals.So Aaron,please think before making inane statements which lower an already not high level of confidence in you.

      barry.mcbride - 2011-10-10 00:08

      LOL, or to slaughter the geese that want gold from the public, the majority of whom face difficulties with basic needs daily.

      Denise - 2011-10-10 03:22

      Unfortunately the plan for a proposed national health insurance (NHI) scheme looks set to destroy private healthcare, and consequently cause a flight of skills from these shores that will cause untold damage to the economy. Some of the proposals include a 5% tax on earnings of those who are not members of medical aid schemes. For those who already have medical aid, some 85% of their contributions would go directly to a newly-created national health insurance body. Finally, all services that could be provided by the public sector could not be insured under a private medical aid. Therefore if public hospitals offered cancer treatment, individuals would not be able to have health insurance that covered cancer, and essentially would have no choice but to obtain treatment through the public system. If the choice is between public health care for a chronic disease, or emigration, many South African professionals will answer with their feet. Without a private health care system it is doubtful whether South Africa can sustain a professional class.

      Denise - 2011-10-10 03:35

      The public health sector is floundering and years of bad planning and poor management have taken their toll on a once well-regarded public health system. In 2006, some 32% of all professional nursing posts in the public sector were vacant. By 2008 the proportion of vacant nursing posts had risen to 40%. In the Free State and the Eastern Cape, more than 50% of all public sector nursing posts stand vacant. The story is the same for doctors, as vacancies in the public sector rose from 30% in 2006 to 35% in 2008. In the Northern Cape, 60% of public sector doctors’ positions stood vacant in 2008. The situation has become so dire that public sector health professionals engaged in protracted (and illegal) strike action. It is an indictment of the Government that it has allowed the public health system to deteriorate to the point that it has.

      Dogmatic - 2011-10-10 04:04

      I am another fool employed in the state hospitals. My medication is not available in state and my 'expensive' medical aid do not even cover it 100% so I do not see how NHI will. On the weekend I earn my salary plus in private and I provide the same me in both without the frustration of state. I will gladly pay that extra tax for health care like in France ect. if as an employee of NHI I can make a living better than now as well. I don't want a Porsche or a mansion in Waterkloof, but definitely better than my current situation. Sadly a good idea at the expense of the 1.5 mil tax payers. Will they cover infertility and reconstructive surgery I see women daily with one wish to become mothers of their own babies and can not help.

      Umfubi - 2011-10-10 09:49

      @leonard: While I agree in principle with much of what you say, I have to take issue with you about the 'world class health system' you say was in place during the Nat regime. There were certainly good state hospitals - there still are. But for the majority of non-medical aid members, healthcare was pretty much as scarce, as frustrating, as bureaucratic and as unreliable then as it is now. Do not believe, either, that there was no corruption: I have personal knowledge of an apartheid-era state hospital employee who made no secret of being able to supply almost any medication 'under the table'. Anyone who denies that the 'commercialisation' of private healthcare has an adverse effect is delusional. Some of the medical aids have become cash cows, and their behind-the-scenes machinations with respect to their rule-books and the fees they negotiate with their 'suppliers' are totally opaque, hair-raising and unjustifiable. Not to mention the institutionalised obfuscation with respect to claims assessments. They are a bunch of sharks in a feeding frenzy, and the waters are so muddied that the average member cannot even hope to see daylight.

      DW - 2011-10-10 09:53

      Didnt the government recently build a private health care facililty for government officials? What makes them entitled to this (at taxpayers expense) but private individuals are not entitled to a choice.

  • POLLENYS - 2011-10-09 22:48

    Story now on 24: "Three hospital chief executive officers (CEOs) in Mpumalanga have been moved to other hospitals amid allegations of corruption, mismanagement and negligence." I rest my case.

      Ula Gillion - 2011-10-09 23:22

      I agree up to a point with the minister. Health care is an essential service, but "brutal" would be more like a description of what one can expect in the public health care system.

  • JohnPicarra - 2011-10-09 22:49

    Virodene for you, Health Minister Aaron Motsoaledi.

  • JUNAID12345 - 2011-10-09 22:57


      daaivark - 2011-10-10 07:44

      HA HA HA HA HA Hold me down. Do you seriously think our government will pay the slightest attention to the inputs of the public? You must be joking. Our government couldn't have cared less when one of the liberation stalwarts asked for a visa for one of the greatest "peacemakers" in the world. DO NOT BE FOOLED. The recent "jam session" held by Manuel and co was a joke.

      DW - 2011-10-10 09:57

      Junaid, their public comments facility is a farce. Time and time again the public give an opinion which opposes theirs, in writing, in the correct format - and it is then ignored in the final outcome. It may seem like a small issue in comparison, but look at the name changing exercise in Durban - 85% of the public feedback was negative, but they went ahead in any case. They only ask for public opinion as this is a requirement ito the law. But it does not seem that they have to do what public opinion requests - that, somehow, does not seem part of the law.

  • sabc10 - 2011-10-09 23:08

    I would think the minister is preceding to commercialise it own its present health department with commericial wages to its employees. Its unsustainable.

      daaivark - 2011-10-10 07:44

      OK I don't understand your English. Sorry.

      Patience - 2011-10-10 15:16

      Daaivark - all you have to understand is that "Its unsustainable" :-D So give him a thumbs up.

  • Wishbone - 2011-10-09 23:08

    MR Minister you are speaking with forked tongue! One of the reasons why private health care is so commercialized is because YOUR department, yes the department that YOU control, is in such a mess. Perhaps if you fixed up the shambles that is supposed to be public health care, and gave the people of SA an actual choice, things would be different. But alas, that would detract from the mandate of looting the country!

  • Antwahn - 2011-10-09 23:29

    I actually agree, last time I spent 23 min in my physicians office -for that I was billed a brutal R1085. Who does he think he is; my lawyer?! But far more brutal is being in the hands of a public health hospital -I nearly lost my leg from a minor knife-wound, four years ago. The nursing-staff was positively brutally incompetent -and they were white! I am sure that it's a good idea to have a cyanide pill when you have to enter your average public hospital -better to die painlessly than suffer a lingering, ignominious death at the hands of lazy, obese black nurses who may toss your corpse into a broom-cupboard. Anyway, I digress. Congratulations Health Minister Aaron Motsoaledi. Your department is doing a fine job to curb SA's burgeoning population growth -which is as you agree, brutal.

      Tolerant - 2011-10-10 14:16

      Doctors pay should be at least equal to lawyers as not many lawyers study for 6 years like doctors. Your doctor probably did a few tests on you like ECG and lung functions? - Those machines are not given to drs for free.

      Antwahn - 2011-10-10 15:07

      Oh but I agree, some of my previous lawyers should pay ME -seeing what ridiculous incompetent rip-off artists they were. And I was speaking cheek in tongue -sorry if that did not come out. btw; I have the greatest respect for my physician, am well aware of the depth of his knowledge -I AM mos a critical consumer! And yes you are close.

  • africanwolf - 2011-10-09 23:32

    He is right medical aid companies are far too expensive

      leonard - 2011-10-09 23:41

      @africanwolf,,,,, I agree with you 10000%.But guess what,I would rather stop smoking and cut back on food to be able to pay my medical aid every month because, if I ever need a hospital,I would not have to use a state hospital.Sad but true.

      Blikskottel - 2011-10-10 07:20

      This can be managed, but a government run health scheme will never give proper services for ALL in RSA. it will just be a rip off of the tax peyer and actually very little will go towards real healthcare and the rest will go into ANC pockets. Face facts.

      africanwolf - 2011-10-10 08:30

      @ leonard I am not saying the medical aid companies must close down. I say the fees must be reasonable, and not R 6000 per month per family, if You pay for full cover, You still need to pay stupid admin fees , when you arrive at the hospital. this is a rip off. medical aid must not cost more than R 750 per month per person, and that is for full cover, without hidden costs anything more than that is a rip off

      Tolerant - 2011-10-10 09:13

      There are much cheaper options available at R500 - R1 000 p/m, but they are very basic. (Care Cross , Discovery Key etc.)

      Spade - 2011-10-10 09:38

      Africanwolf - if I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong. If our public healthcare were merely acceptable, private healthcare would have had to compete with public healthcare, not just among themselves. It could easily have led to lower private healthcare rates, and therefore lower medical aid. The fact that medical aid is expensive, is a symptom of a poor public healthcare, rather than a cause.

      leonard - 2011-10-10 20:10

      @africanwolf,,,,,,we agree totally.I will go a step further by saying that the medical aid business is run by a bunch of thieving CRIMINALS WHO SHOULD BE HUNG AND QUARTERED.In their own way they are as corrupt and without morals as the ANC government.But, as already stated,you know the reason why I pay as I do.Maybe it`s time for mugs and suckers like us to stand up to the might of these companies !!!!1

  • Ndlovu - 2011-10-09 23:40

    Have YOU ever been in a clinic.. in a state-hospital.. have you ever enjoied the official "service" of the state ordered system...? No! OK than go and you will love the private health-care.. love it very much!!!!

      Denise - 2011-10-10 01:21

      I have watched several poor folk die a slow and lingering death due to the lack of service received at State hospitals. Mothers in childbirth left to bring brain damaged babies into the world as they could not have C Sections. Misdiagnosed patients. Elderly left to rot away due to septic bedsores. The list is endless. I am not saying that this does not happen in private hospitals, but it is not a daily occurrence. The private hospitals have more accountability than our Government hospitals do. God forbid that I have to depend on one of these Hell Holes. I would rather take my chances on the street.

      Koos Poggenpoel - 2011-10-11 08:40

      @Ndlovu - Yes I have and not that long ago. After my visit at the state hospital I decided to budget in such a way that I could afford Private Health Care. That was my choice and I lived like a dog for a few years to afford it, but when I got ill I knew I was taken care of in a decent manner!

  • JohnPicarra - 2011-10-09 23:49

    Fits ANC’s long-term game plan 1 insistence by ANC proceeding with laws to imprison journalists exposing official corruption. 2 snubbing D Moseneke for chief justiceship. 3 suggestions the willing buyer, willing seller principle should not be allowed to retard land redistribution. In 1969, at its conference in Morogoro, ANC adopted a "national democratic revolution" (NDR) as its overriding strategic goal. NDR was based on Lenin’s theory of imperialism, adapted for S A as a "colony of a special type" because whites are indigenous. They are nevertheless viewed as the equivalent of the imperial powers blacks as the colonised victims. This means white wealth is seen as having been illegitimately acquired. Kader Asmal said before his death that it was time to abandon the NDR, there is no sign it has. "Baffling" policy developments are consistent with NDR, which ANC reaffirmed its commitment in various "strategy and tactics" docs for conferences in 1997, 2002 and 2007. Key components include the redistribution of wealth, income, and land. Political include affirmative action to make all centres of power demographically representative, cadre deployment to take control of all centres of power, and winning the battle of ideas to counter both "neoliberalism" and "ultraleftism". Among potentially adverse forces are a free press that can challenge corruption propagate "neoliberal" ideas, an independent judiciary a constitution that guarantees property rights. Extract of Kane-Berman.

  • Ndlovu - 2011-10-09 23:50

    Coutsee 22.45 self regulated??? yeboyess... because too (far to) expensive for the normal... There should be a basic insurance (compulsory)with free choice of Dr and.. medics from a pharmacy by law...

  • Croll13 - 2011-10-10 00:35

    What nonsence. Now that the public health care hospitals have been ruined through mismanagement, incompetence, corruption, nepotism and general indicipline, the governments greedy eyes look to the private healthcare facilities. It never ceases to amaze me how the obvious solutions are overlooked, namely, get your act together and sort out the Gov. hospitals. That is how you can best serve the people of South Africa and ensure that decent healthcare is available to all.

  • Denise - 2011-10-10 01:09

    We used to have one of the best public hospital systems in the world. We trained and produced many of the top specialists in the world and pioneered countless ground breaking procedures in those very same public hospitals. That all changed when the ANC stepped in to degrade our hospital system with their "free" medical care for all. This forced many of us to pay for private health care. This is a huge chunk out of most peoples salaries, but at least we are given the chance to get a better quality of care than we would otherwise enjoy in the cesspools they call public hospitals. The only reasons that I can think of for the Minister wanting to introduce a National Healthcare Insurance, is put more money into the hands of those who mismanage the public hospitals and hopefully cause the collapse of the private health care system, as it shows the "free" Government healthcare system is a very poor light. Since when do I not have the right to spend my money where I choose? I have no desire to pay extra tax in order to lie in the body fluids of some other poor person and wait endlessly to have pain relief in a filthy dirty State hospital! My money, my choice. Of course the have nots will be the first to voice their disdain for my sentiments, they think that they have much to gain, but I have more to loose by taking this lying down. The Government is yet again making a bad judgement call and hoping to garner more votes from it's ignorant supporter base !

  • Craig Louw - 2011-10-10 02:31

    Right! First of all the ANC is the reason why our public systems are in dire straits. I refer t

  • Craig Louw - 2011-10-10 02:36

    I refer to Geraldine frazer moloketi who so bravely admitted on national television that there were more than 200 000 posts vacant in the public sector and that they weren't even sure where those posts were. Secondly the government (of which the anc is the majority) have been closing down hospitals left right and centre. I have it on good authority that doctors in the eastern cape can't prescribe certain meds because state run anything sucks there hence the meds are not available.

  • Craig Louw - 2011-10-10 02:40

    Nursing posts left unfilled. replacing our well qualified doctors with cubans, so they can give more money to zim and Zambia and Gaddaffi etc... Billions leaving our country, billions on submarines and corvettes. Subs that aren't being used. Billions on renting buildings instead of owning. You want better healthcare get a better government cause those guys in parliament go to private hospitals and give our money to mugabe.

  • Craig Louw - 2011-10-10 02:44

    I'm sorry to say dithala and ndlovu, your hand out mentality will only get you more of the same crap you're being fed now. While you sit and militantly support these fools they are buying themselves another ten years of luxury. They know what they're suggesting won't work but it will take you the next ten years to realize it. All these overpaid private doctors will leave for greener pastures and you'll be knee deep in the sh1t

  • Craig Louw - 2011-10-10 02:53

    By the way doctors study for 7 years just to practice as a gp. 7 not 4, 7! Then if they want to specialize, it's another 4 years. If they want to super-specialize it's another four years. All of this education by the way NOT subsidized by the state!!!! And it's expensive. And the lawyer comment.... What's a lawyer gonna do when you have a heart attack or stroke? Pull out your will and testament. A doctor will save your life. Of course they should be paid. you won't bitch about paying for your new Beemer or that your new Toyota is still overpriced but hey I had to see a doctor to stay healthy, life sucks!! Boohoo.

  • Ancient - 2011-10-10 03:07

    Motsoaledi is right, pvt healthcare is ripping us the public off. I do not necessarily think that the government will run a successful NHI, but if you take discovery health, they are always trying to get items excluded, eg they do not pay for implants in dentalcare even if it is a procedure done in hospital and there are many more eg.s. They always increase your self payment gap which means that you have to fork out a lot of money after savings completed, before you get access to the pool fund. In essence you only get a third of the value you pay for.

  • DFSS - 2011-10-10 04:18

    Its amazing how the ANC like this brutal system if they must escape their hearings, or jail time

      Cheekiechops - 2011-10-10 07:36

      Very true. I would like to see Malema, Zuma, Motsoaledi, Winnie, etc. sit in the queue at a Govt hospital to see a doctor. This clown should think before he opens his mouth.

  • Blikskottel - 2011-10-10 07:13

    it is at least effective and not as brutal as the commie government system of hospitals and mediacal personnel where people that could have been save die, get mis treated etc etc. Mr Minister and I as a taxpayer would never want to give such a system any support whatsoever. Your ANC regime has stuoid and outdated idea, apart from its obvious criminally sick intent.

  • Deeteem - 2011-10-10 07:20

    Get the cesspits you call government run hospitals to operate at 100% and we can talk !!

  • viam - 2011-10-10 07:20

    Wait till the grubberment gets their hand on all that loot...then the word brutallity will gain a totally new meaning. We will (just like now) be paying through our necks for NOTHING

  • Martin - 2011-10-10 07:20

    "America’s abundance was created not by public sacrifices to “the common good,” but by the productive genius of free men who pursued their own personal interests and the making of their own private fortunes. They did not starve the people to pay for America’s industrialization. They gave the people better jobs, higher wages and cheaper goods with every new machine they invented, with every scientific discovery or technological advance—and thus the whole country was moving forward and profiting, not suffering, every step of the way. " - Ayn Rand

  • LarchStrober - 2011-10-10 07:32

    It is your government that has, through it's restrictive policies, drained the country of health care professionals. This has opened the door for the remaining few to sell their services at a rate which most South Africans / medical aids cannot afford. By destroying the public trust in public health care you've contributed to the huge "success" of private health care in this country.

  • isak.dippenaar - 2011-10-10 07:34

    and any person (rich or poor) just thinking he will be better off under a so called new system must be mad. The medical business world wide is like parasites sucking money and make sure we the public patients will never be without them. It is in no medical professionals interest to see you 100% healthy. Start here bring us alternative medical services. Merck and the rest of the suppliers can not survive on a healthy patient. Medical aids/GP's/specialist/hospitals the same. So where are we????

  • RogM - 2011-10-10 07:35

    Private healthcare is only an essential service because the public healthcare system is such a disgrace - put your own house in order, Minister!

  • parkavenue - 2011-10-10 07:37

    All because you f%&cked up the provincial hospitals ar$ehole.Just ask malema why he ran to one of the brutal hospitals when he took "ill" recently

  • JDW - 2011-10-10 07:37

    I will go to a State Hospital anyday if their standard is the same as Private hospitals, not the state where it is now, so clean up the Public hospitals and then maybe you have a chance.

  • Peacock - 2011-10-10 07:43

    I have used both, and Sh*t, I will go to the private sector any day due the treatment recieved, medication issued, the people, the out of hospital care etc etc. The pubic sector do not care and treat you like a number.

  • Ryan Tunney - 2011-10-10 07:46

    Not half as brutal as the public health care system. Public health care is a pig stye created by the pigs in government. In the Apartheid era the public health care system was world class and probably one of the best in the world. Now the so called "previ-arse-ly" disadvantaged governemnt pigs have taken it over and can't provide the same quality of health care. The pigs are you in government mr. minister - you are the pigs sinking this country.

  • pitbull - 2011-10-10 07:47

    Zuma and his ANC acolytes should take a pay cut. This money should then be spent on health and the upkeep of old people. The South African Pension (grant)system is a total disgrace as are the public hospitals. Hospitals should not be run by accountants, as they are as greedy and corrupt as lawyers.

  • FpeT - 2011-10-10 07:54

    It's true that the public health system is in a terrible condition. But I also agree with Motsoaledi that the private sector is a brutal system in that it is so expensive. It is all about money. Very few doctors these days have the right intentions.

  • Nzx - 2011-10-10 07:56

    SA public and private health both at the extreme ends of the social spectrum, nothing new in SA, it reflects SA in everybaspect of life. This gap, is the hole into wich SA is gonna fall.

  • Johnny - 2011-10-10 08:00

    Communist pig.

  • Marietjie - 2011-10-10 08:01

    Just a thought that occurred to me after I read how Juju tried to get out of his hearing - he is in a PRIVATE hospital nursing his wounded ego!

  • jgmentz - 2011-10-10 08:03

    Private hospitals exists, because you Mr. Motsoaledi cannot give us proper public hospitals. Rather channel your energies towards that which is broken, which is our public hospitals, rather than breaking that which is working, which is our private hospitals.

  • Hermann - 2011-10-10 08:04

    Damn idiot, I pay pay for private health care from my own pocket. They will say anything to justify the introduction of a national health scheme that with their lack of expertise, commitment and knowledge is bound to fail.

  • Jim - 2011-10-10 08:06

    Private healthcare and medical aids are profit making operations and nothing more. But with Gov healthcare you taking life into your own hands. So we are caught in the middle.Even Juliaas goes to Private care? Now why would that be?

  • Johnny - 2011-10-10 08:11

    i read somewhere that the NHI in britain was a failure due to the workload of each doctor, therefore mis diagnosis is a common error as the doctor has to rush through his/her consultation. it should be our choice whether we want to use a private doctor or not that is after all what democracy is all about is it not

  • Grannie - 2011-10-10 08:13

    What happened to freedom of choice, are they now taking that away from us - I choose to pay my yes exessive medial aid fees so that I can go where I will get the best care.Even England has private health cshemes and hospitals so if I need my hip replacing I dont have to wait on a list for over a year for my surgery.

  • JCWR56 - 2011-10-10 08:13

    During the next few months, the ANC regime will make a lot of these statements. I also expect to see an announcement of a parliamentary enquiry into "fraud" or "mismanagement" or such like into private health care. The reson? simple, the only way they can get health care for 45mio people is for the 5.1 mio tax payers to pay for it. so discredit private health care, talk up state care and watch people move across. Private health care will then have to be more expensive, more people will move and there you have it - state health paid for. maybe i should change my nick to cynicism 101, but okes, this is going to be a disaster. The ANC regime cannot run a damn thing with any degree of efficiency, state health care will go the same way and you and i will be forced to pay for it. and i'm sure there will be no option of private or state, you may choose private, but you'll still pay full whack for state on top.

  • Banana_Republic - 2011-10-10 08:17

    So storing bodies in cupboards is not brutal; making people bring their own food & linen is not brutal; watching chickens & cats have free range of hospital corridors is not brutal; making the old & critically ill sit for hours waiting for attention while the deployed cadres go from breakfast to lunch to mid afternoon KFC bucket meal without a care in the world is not brutal? Minister I would prefer to pay my medical aid fees for the use of a private "brutal" service than set a foot inside the one you were appointed to run. PS - it seems that the hero of the poor, Julius Sello Malema feels the same way!!

  • Roy - 2011-10-10 08:20

    A big pity that the the NHI is going to take so long to implement. When one looks at Doctors fees,Hospital fees etc and the private healthcare profits and the amount members pay per month one wonders who is winning and who is losing.

  • Bill - 2011-10-10 08:21

    You know, my faith dictates that I need to have reepect for the human dignity of all of God's people. but sometimes I despair at my own failing in this regard when I hear such absolute drivel and idiocy!! and then this is the same man that wants to force via law woman to breastfeed---Minister, with great respect, my opinion is that you really should not be in the position that you hold; you don't have the intellectual capacity.some of the utterances you come up with are plain stupid.

      MojoBa - 2011-10-10 08:34

      Exactly. Instead of forcing women to breastfeed, why doesn't he force the men that fathered the children to care for them, financially and emotionally.

  • whatno - 2011-10-10 08:30

    "The public would have till November to comment on the NHI discussion document." Can someone please let me know where and how we can do this. This topic makes me mad,who asked for this NHI, i personally am happy with whati get in Private Health sector. And them (political leader) also go there too.