News24

SA an Irish-coffee society, Mantashe says

2012-10-10 22:21

Johannesburg - South Africa is an Irish-coffee society, African National Congress secretary general Gwede Mantashe said on Wednesday.

"The black is at the bottom and white on top with a sprinkling of chocolate," Mantashe said in Newtown, Johannesburg.

"We can't have a society that is described as equal when it is not."

He said things were improving, but there were still problems when it came to unity and nation-building.

Mantashe was giving a keynote address at an Ahmed Kathrada Foundation seminar titled "What does the ANC mean by unity in diversity?"

In certain sections of society, integration was noticeable, Mantashe said.

There were black elitists moving into neighbourhoods that were predominantly white.

"That's where I see some integration. These neighbourhoods are becoming non-racial," he said.

It was also evident in the mix of races in the school in those areas.

However, this was resented by some because black children in model C schools were seen as "betraying the cause", he said.

"In separate townships, non-racialism is not visible."

Mantashe said there was also a problem within companies, especially when it came to employment equity.

"Employment equity is malicious compliance in some companies, not an imperative. They only do it cause the law says so."

Looking at the yearly employment equity statistics, Mantashe said it was clear that the country was still far from its target of non-racialism.

Despite this, no one will say they are a racist, said Mantashe.

"Look at the Freedom Front [Plus], the [Democratic Alliance] DA, the ANC - not one will admit to being racist.

"Non-racialism is a floor standard in South Africa," he said.

It is what was accepted and everyone wanted to identify with people such as former President Nelson Mandela and Ahmed Kathrada.

"Look today, no one was a beneficiary of apartheid," he said.

During apartheid, South Africans were deprived of the right to know each other and appreciate each other's cultures.

Undoing this was the task of today, but people could not pretend apartheid had never happened, said Mantashe.

"We will make more progress when we become more tolerant of each other," he said.

In terms of nation-building, South Africa was limping on.

Mantashe said an emerging respect for national symbols let him know "we are getting there".

Comments
  • debduplessis - 2012-10-10 22:29

    oh get over yourself... and its the sprinkling that is killing this country & its economy - its called CORRUPTION like we have never ever ever known it!

      kobie.nel1 - 2012-10-10 22:55

      No man, you got it wrong. The sprinkling is just BEE decoration. But yes, you are right, it is poisonous.

      marcusvandermerwe - 2012-10-10 23:15

      Read between the lines. Everything about race, as with all other articles. It's one way of keeping us divided along racial lines. In that way we will always remain obsessed with race and never actually start fixing or acknowledging the real problems.

      aj.oosthuizen.7 - 2012-10-10 23:31

      I don't think I believe my ears..they are pulling the race card, again? It is now an entire generation later, every person that was born free could have done something with their lifes, they were not oppressed, previously disadvantaged nor should they benefit from BEE....god, can't we all just live in harmony, this race bash is childish and has become a weak excuse...

      wize.man.31 - 2012-10-10 23:33

      By the way. I wasn't brought up to be racist. (Born in the 70's) But our NEW corrupt, ignorant, selfish, arrogant, biast, hatefull and idiot government made me think twice!!!

      mark.p.oberholzer - 2012-10-10 23:35

      Wonder who he is talking to? How many of the so called (rural) bottom of the coffee even know what an irish coffee is?

      atholl.canterbury - 2012-10-10 23:55

      Marcus van der merwe is right ... 'Read between the lines' Mantashe : "We can't have a society that is described as equal when it is not." The Constitution (which Mantashe swears an oath to protect) states explicitly {Section 9 } : ' .... everyone has the right to equal {protection and benefit} ...' === Divide by Race === The Constitution (which Mantashe again swears an oath to protect) states explicitly {Section 16 } : ' .... no person may advocate hatred that is based on Race, Ethnicity, Gender or Religion ...' === Between the lines === In all countries where there is conflict (especially Africa) --> the 'Rulers' maintain their power and control by advocating hatred (division) on the basis of: Ethnicity - Zimbabwe Ethnicity - Angola Race - Zimbabwe Race - South Africa Gender - Punjab (India) Religion - Kenya, Sudan, Nazi's, Arab States, Israel, Pakistan/India == also between the lines === In all conflict areas that are divided -- except India/Pakistan -- the ones who Rule by division, pave the way for 'foreign forces' to seize the wealth. ... can I have cake with my Irish Coffee?

      heinrich.swart.3 - 2012-10-11 00:13

      It's actually the educated on top and the uneducated at the bottom, just because demographically there are more black people in this country, obviously there's going to be more black people at the bottom. EDUCATE the people ANC. Stop making it a racial issue. Uneducated masses, of any race will always be at the bottom.

      thandiwe.ngema.71 - 2012-10-11 00:13

      Come on Mantashe - there are poor white and rick blacks too.. I employ a black metallurgist and a white metallurgist and neither of them are exactly rich - both are highly grateful to have a job!

      eduard.homes - 2012-10-11 00:24

      this pork chop is the same as JZ...he brings up race to hide his lack of ability

      claudia.meads - 2012-10-11 00:42

      Just another RED HERRING, more detached decoys to draw attention away from the fact that the ANC and its waste products (eg the friends of the Woodwork class) are busy destroying SA. http://www.fin24.com/Economy/Marcus-SA-outlook-deteriorating-rapidly-20121010 For what their king and his jester are too dense to fathom, even if you take everything from every single white South African and give it to black South Africans, then NOTHING will change. SA's GDP/capita will remain exactly the same, the productivity will not improve one iota - in fact it will likely take an even greater nose-dive (in an exponential entitlement rage) - all the ANC would have achieved is to kill the goose that lays the golden egg - iow Zimbabwe here SA comes... The reality is that the entire planet earth is an ‘Irish Coffee’ - it has NOTHING to do with white South Africans. Eg, Less than 8% of the world’s population lives in the USA, Germany, France, Canada, Australia, Switzerland, the Netherlands and Norway – yet they contribute to more than 40% of the world’s GDP. 11% of the world’s population lives in Africa – yet Africa contributes less than 2% of the world’s GDP. There is an old saying Mantashe – JELOUSY MAKES YOU NASTY..!

      pieter.calitz - 2012-10-11 01:32

      South Africa is actually more like a healthy person that got cANCer.

      tw2066 - 2012-10-11 06:17

      Another go from the RACIST ANC REGIME at one of their pet hates. Its either the WEST or the WHITES, or the MEDIA or APARTHEID. Today it the turn of the whites..... And his suppotas forget, the ANC and NOT THE CREAM are architects of such problems as ,, tolling, book saga, Marikana murderes, Nkandlagate, corruption, two corrupt police chieves, the power crisis, SAA crisis .... need I go on..

      frank.kistler.31 - 2012-10-11 06:36

      After 300 plus years America is not over it......black and white will always be apart.....live with it Amen!!!!!!!!!!

      beverly.young3 - 2012-10-11 06:45

      Imagine how long it took him to think of this comparison? Isnt it about numbers? There are more people of colour in this country than whites? I am gob-smacked by the stupidity of this statement...the sprinkling are the 'black barons' who are so mega wealthy, that it seems their acquired wealthy is unexplainable. Last weeks 'y' magazine shows a list of these guys. I was amazed that 'they' had so much money, without errr......education, or working for it. None of them invented google or fb?? *sgh* It goes on hey? We are forever gonna be apologising for being born pale.....

      ISO - 2012-10-11 07:00

      You want to build a nation, i suggest you get over the irish coffee out of your mind at first and stop spreading propaganda!! If you know your maths, the ratio 80% black & 10% white is basically already in line on a work level, ....look out your window and see the difference, you are the racist!

      hein.huyser - 2012-10-11 07:22

      The anc is the problem here.

      GordonT - 2012-10-11 07:22

      This is an old mentality. Considering the black middle-class was around 9.3m in 2008 (http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/benchmarking_progress/black_middle_class_totals_9.3m_unisa_study.html), and that there are only 4.5m whites (http://www.statssa.gov.za/publications/P0302/P03022011.pdf), Mantashe's statements cannot be further from the truth and border on incitement or at the very least, a serious lack of knowledge. Granted, there are many poor people in SA, but the facts clearly show that just the black middle-class is double the total white population, never mind including the black elite. I'm sure there's another drink that might accurately describe the real situation in South Africa, but it would probably not be as neat as the Johnnie Blue preferred by those spouting incorrect facts like this.

      lownabester - 2012-10-11 07:32

      The white foam is the sober part, nuff said.

      deabreu - 2012-10-11 07:42

      I wish these power hogging, greedy, manipulative, vindictive, fat cat ANC politicians would choke and die on their expensive Irish coffees at the Sheraton Hotel at the Union Building - the poor cannot even afford Ricoffy!

      ian.dejongh.562 - 2012-10-11 07:45

      If we are not allowed to forget about Apartheid, should we also still remember the bomming and killing of innocent people while attending church and all the other things that is conveniently never mentioned? There is always two sides to a story .......

      mattewis.kat - 2012-10-11 07:48

      It actually starts prior to corruption, with DEMOCRACY! You cannot qualify aforementioned solely on age. You have to look at education and tax contribution to decide on voting power of individuals. The problem in SA is that we have too many non-tax-contributing members (as well as illiterate people). You have informal business owners driving R1M luxury vehicles and mockingly and openly declaring that their wealth is earned tax-free! Isn't it fair to then forfeit your democratic right? You have murderers & rapists casting votes in prison, which is utterly preposterous! You cannot guarantee "equal education for all" with less than 1% of the populace paying taxes! Where is the money going to come from? This is not rocket science, but seemingly still too complicated for the semi-literate brain of a typical ANC "leaduh"!

      boltonbarry - 2012-10-11 07:49

      So the sprinkling on top must be the cANCer riding on the cream

      georgi.mcguire - 2012-10-11 07:50

      @wize.man.31 Black people do not get lice, your kids were getting the lice from white kids.

      anthro45 - 2012-10-11 08:12

      This is how you spread racism and ensure votes.

      heathway.master - 2012-10-11 09:33

      Lovely words from an entire Government and Political System which is completely based on racism, discrimination, vengeance and entitlement. Every nation in the world has rapidly forgotten an oppressive past, and moved on to success and prosperity. Certain cultures in this country appear to be born losers and defeatists, blaming everyone but themselves for an inability to move upwards in a normal and standard competitive environment.

      tc.convulvulous - 2012-10-11 09:41

      I suppose the ANC's hatred for non-Blacks will let them prefer Irish Coffee without the cream? They are sytematically getting rid of the cream anyway!

      thandiwe.ngema.71 - 2012-10-11 10:24

      Lol we can all come up with silly analogies Gwede! How about the coloureds are the alcohol, asians the sugar, blacks the coffee and whites the cream. The sprinkling on top are the ANC officials who by their corrupt ways are preventing everything mixing together. The spoon which mixes us all together is SPORT!!

      omrisho.za - 2012-10-11 10:41

      lerato... i sure as sh*t did not get a house, farm, tender or any other such thing... nor did my father, nor his, nor his... get with the program here ffs... ignorance and generalisation are holding you and south africa back... when a criminal is elected to be president, one has to look at the capacity of the voters... doesn't look good at all, heard the saying before?? "you get the government you deserve" - yip, that's right, the citizens vote for this corruption and cadre system... and that is what is failing south africa, you, me and our children, open your eyes and see

      Andrea - 2012-10-11 12:00

      lerato.kay3, good luck in getting your riches back from the Queen of England. Because you are ignorant, you obviously don't know that the Brittish were the ones who put apartheid in place, the whites of the "previous regime" only enjoyed independence from England on 31 May 1961. Happy digging up the UK!

      johan.fou - 2012-10-11 12:14

      There were black elitists moving into neighbourhoods that were predominantly white. "That's where I see some integration. These neighbourhoods are becoming non-racial," he said." Mr. Mantashe, have you seen what those parks, streets and neighborhoods look like now?

      sean.carbutt - 2012-10-11 12:22

      Finally, the man reveals his true colours - communist

      elgh.elgh - 2012-10-11 12:51

      The black part only lies at the bottom because of volume. It's like putting a rock into a glass of water and then putting a feather on top, it is logic that the feather will float. Many more blacks than whites. O and Mantashe, go stuff yourself and your racist tendencies.

      sauvignon.blanc.31 - 2012-10-11 13:13

      why is every news24 reader a racist who uses anc's incompetence as an excuse for their racism. the anc is corrupt so now its 'those stupid blacks'' and ''oh they bringin out the race card again making excuses bladdy useless blacks''....do you have any clue how racist and redneck you sound? to deny the fact that whites benefitted from apartheid economically is just plain dumb. we did benefit, we still benefit from cheap black labour, just as corporates and the developed world benefits from poor countries and cheap labor. use your brains news24 people , you all just jump to react without ever thinking. whites are not to blame for the current state of affairs, the anc is corrupt (as every governentment in the world is), but the fact still remains that blacks in the majority are poor and do not have the opportunities to move forward. stop denying this fact and going on about how you are white and was once poor but now you worked your way to success. no one cares. try being an uneducated xhosa speaking poor person and working your way to success- much harder. so have all the hate you want for the anc but DO NOT HATE THE POOR PEOPLE, THEY ARE ALSO VICTIMS OF THIS GOVT. and stop pretending you did not benefit from apartheid, when you live in a huge house with 3 gardeners and 3 maids, and your company plays your employees 2 grand a month. thanks and go well (im white )

      rodney.bevan.58 - 2012-10-11 13:41

      @Sauvignon. I agree with some of your comment, I know of maybe 10 white families who had more than one domestic worker, I know of no one who had a full time gardener. I have never had a domestic worker, not since I left my parents home and most of my friends don't have one either. I don't think most whites hate black people, they may hate the irrational behaviour of voting for an incredibly corrupt government again and again, they may hate the fact that all whites are lumped under the same label, ie; racist, better off etc. Whilever the majority vote for the ANC they are voting for further hardship, poverty, lack of jobs, high crime levels, strikes and general mayhem, lack of infrastructure spending, corruption, nepotism etc. It is very hard not to get extremely upset with the majority when you see this going on and you know the only way to stop this is to kick the ANC out of power and yet the population act like sheep and continue to vote for them.

      sauvignon.blanc.31 - 2012-10-11 13:56

      rodney - i agree with you. its a bit of a catch 22 because this base population that votes for the anc is uneducated and the anc is not improving education so we are stuck in this cycle. but you cant hate on people who themselves feel stuck in a hopeless cycle of poverty and resort to violent strikes or support a govt just because they refuse to ever consider white leadership, when they dont have the luxury of being politically aware because they are too busy scurreliing to put food in their mouths. i think most privileged whites have no clue about the extent of the poverty most of this country experiences. how can you escape this cycle of poverty with no education, bad english, and no opportunities to advance yourself. you have whites who just think blacks are too lazy and stupid, when in reality,blacks just feel frustrated and hopeless. wouldnt you feel hopeless if you were paid 2 grand a month and the most you could ever hope for is to earn another couple grand maybe after years of employment. there are ways out of that poverty but most humans dont have the will power or resourcefullness to find a way. we expect so much of people but fail to realize where they are coming from, and never will until we really understand what its like to walk in their shoes

      ivy.malema.3 - 2012-10-11 14:47

      In the old days when whites were ruling CORRUPTION was everywhere nobody had the guts to talk about it(you will have been arrested and served a jail time). PROOF check all the ministers they are now multimillionaires OR corruption is more visible when is done by blacks

      hamish.drake1 - 2012-10-11 14:49

      Most restuarants can't make an Irish(read Scotch) Coffee worth a damn...Ohhh now I get the analogy...SA is like a rubbish Irish Coffee. I agree. And Mantashe must be the chef

      msophiasharp - 2012-10-11 15:11

      Yuuup!!! All the way!!

      janet.pretorius1 - 2012-10-11 15:21

      The sprinkling on the top is brown for a reason ........... and that sprinkling is the ANC government!!!

      KennySven - 2012-10-11 17:33

      That beautiful good looking well made Irish Coffee is picture perfect.But if served stirred/mixed up,guess what it's not worth ten cents or is even drinkable for that matter.On top of this no body even want's even for free,its F@cked.

      ray.priestley.79 - 2012-10-11 18:41

      No,it is a Johnnie Walker Blue society for the ANC.

      John - 2012-10-11 19:11

      I wish they would stop wasting time coming up with cute catch-phrases and thinking they're clever. Rather spend time getting rid of corruption. The upper ANC strata are the ones benefitting from apartheid and forgot the man at grassroots. Zuma, Malema, Yengeni, and all cronies related to them benefit and pillage. Instead of seeking other smaller parties to 'admit' they're 'racists', rather work with them to get rid of corrupt MP's in public office. It's a much nobler cause than pointing fingers and living in the past. Learn from the past and work on the future. Pointing fingers when your own group is corrupt and rotten helps no one.

  • evanknowles - 2012-10-10 22:31

    I really thought this was going to be an alcohol reference.

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-10-10 23:09

      It is. They're all drunk on power, totally intoxicated by the gazillion Rand at their indiscriminate disposal and all their hangovers are delegated to the citizens to deal with.

      eduard.homes - 2012-10-11 00:24

      this pork chop is the same as JZ...he brings up race to hide his lack of ability

      JohncarlosBiza - 2012-10-11 06:38

      He doesn't realize the problem for all he mentioned is right under his nose....or is it part of his nose?

      stefan.madden - 2012-10-11 07:09

      Congratulations news24, you have succeeded in pissing off another 6000 white people today, the repercussions of which will be far reaching. Your articles are written with pure intent, not to report on a "story" but rather to initiate racial hatred. Whoever you reporters are, please realise the power you stories have at dictating the events of the future. Also remember that your actions will become you. You cannot hide behind your keyboard all year, when that war starts that you had direct influence on creating, you will be out in the street amongst the bullets, the regret will be massive.

      kala.bafazi - 2012-10-11 08:52

      In an Irish coffee most of the alcohol is in the coffee (black part).

      vicker.man.3 - 2012-10-11 13:02

      Ja well cream will always rise to the top - physics says it will in literal terms, and history shows it does so in figuritive terms. Not my fault I am the cream, and you, Mantashe, are the whiskey-soaked grinds...

  • benjamin.doyle.351 - 2012-10-10 22:32

    Bet you he did not think that one out by himself.......

      godfrey.welman - 2012-10-10 23:08

      @Jymiro...so things will not changes for the rest of the blacks, as he must protect his "original phrase" LOL 18 years later and his original phrase still holds true.

      geronimo.feather - 2012-10-11 00:23

      Jymiro - if Gwede was saying this waaaaay back in 1996 how disappointing that he is playing the SAME race card 16 looooong years afterwards..... How much longer will the race card be played? What must whites do? Go live in townships as Gwede suggests? Julias Mampara was asking a while ago why there are no white maids? Does the ANC honestly think "integration" and "transformation" means turning whites into maids and garden boys and seeing whites live in townships? Don't make me larf. Rather think of ways of uplifting and improving the lives of the poor folk. Decent education standards would be a good start.... Build and improve, don't break and destroy.

      eduard.homes - 2012-10-11 00:24

      this pork chop is the same as JZ...he brings up race to hide his lack of ability

      audrey.lang.10 - 2012-10-11 02:48

      Well Jymiro if he has been saying this since 1996, then he's surely part of the chocolate sprinkles on top. No comrade stays in his job because of civic duty. I guess the perks must be quite good on top.

  • gnoise.prod - 2012-10-10 22:33

    if the blacks are at the bottom & whites on top,where are you Mr Mantashe & all government officials?

      sabine.dittmann - 2012-10-10 22:35

      They are the chocolate I presume...

      BulletProof. - 2012-10-10 23:42

      In this case they made a mistake and they put the chocolate on the top of the milk.The chef must be fired.

      stirrer.stirrer - 2012-10-11 10:44

      They are the black part mixed with Johnny Walker Blue Label.

  • patricia.dewet.92 - 2012-10-10 22:33

    I feel so sorry for him, if after 18 years that is what he thinks then it is a blacks problem. Even with BEE and AA the problem is a black problem sort it out yourselves. You are keeping yourselves down, this comes with striking and children not at school an people living above their income.

      eduard.homes - 2012-10-11 00:25

      this pork chop is the same as JZ...he brings up race to hide his lack of ability

      jomar.delange - 2012-10-11 12:42

      Poor leadership is what's keeping the blacks down.

      marius.j.rensburg.3 - 2012-10-11 15:16

      Black kids sitting in the VELD attending school is what is shocking!! Kids did NOT ask to be treated this way!! Build MORE SCHOOLS. I don't give a **&&%% what it cost. Just build more schools employ more teachers and raise the standard to pass matric. (Now these kids too grow up thinking us "bad" white people are responsible.) We are not, i'll say it again, we are not, get it?

      sedeshan - 2012-10-12 14:32

      @ Mannie777 - I agree. All that money going to nkandla could be better spent...the kids are suffering and so the cycle continues -> no education = poverty = crime.

  • Roelof.Richter - 2012-10-10 22:35

    Nice coffee though

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-10-10 23:10

      If you can get it

      sauvignon.blanc.31 - 2012-10-11 13:15

      why is every news24 reader a racist who uses anc's incompetence as an excuse for their racism. the anc is corrupt so now its 'those stupid blacks'' and ''oh they bringin out the race card again making excuses bladdy useless blacks''....do you have any clue how racist and redneck you sound? to deny the fact that whites benefitted from apartheid economically is just plain dumb. we did benefit, we still benefit from cheap black labour, just as corporates and the developed world benefits from poor countries and cheap labor. use your brains news24 people , you all just jump to react without ever thinking. whites are not to blame for the current state of affairs, the anc is corrupt (as every governentment in the world is), but the fact still remains that blacks in the majority are poor and do not have the opportunities to move forward. stop denying this fact and going on about how you are white and was once poor but now you worked your way to success. no one cares. try being an uneducated xhosa speaking poor person and working your way to success- much harder. so have all the hate you want for the anc but DO NOT HATE THE POOR PEOPLE, THEY ARE ALSO VICTIMS OF THIS GOVT. and stop pretending you did not benefit from apartheid, when you live in a huge house with 3 gardeners and 3 maids, and your company plays your employees 2 grand a month. thanks and go well (im white )

      brendan.vogt.1 - 2012-10-11 14:03

      @sauvignon, I think you need to be put back in the wine barrel for say another 20 years !!!!

      sauvignon.blanc.31 - 2012-10-11 14:31

      omg badger you are just hilarious! you must be one clever guy to come up with that one! no wander blacks are stupid! whites like you are just sooo witty and wise!!pingy bendejo

      joe.blogs.98837399 - 2012-10-12 06:48

      Ha ha badger.....

  • crracker.crackerr - 2012-10-10 22:37

    And you Mantashe and company have stuck your heads too deep into the beehive to withdraw and now the discomfort and the stings and bites are taking their toll.

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-10-10 23:12

      Nothing touches them. They have very long fingered gloves and worker bees to syphon off the honey. They stand on the hill and send mere mortals in to be stung and stung again.

  • ppisciotta - 2012-10-10 22:43

    What do the blacks what now? They wanted freedom - they have it. They wanted self rule - they have it. They wanted employment - they have it (whites can't even find work), they wanted education - they have it (sharp white kids can't get into university in favor of ignorant blacks), they want, and want and want. They can't handle what they want.

      PAP - 2012-10-10 23:29

      William - I'm currently in America. Blacks here are so much better than in SA. Their attitude is not "give me give me give me". They are quite nice and this country is so safe by comparison to SA. Even with all the guns in America. No walls, razor wires, electric fences (except to keep livestock on the farm and not on the roads). Shame I wonder if SA Blacks will ever be as sharp as Blacks elsewhere.

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-10-10 23:51

      Blacks 'there' have been part of a democracy far longer than 'here', have not had to contend with [insert great big list here] for the last 40 years, From proper houses and indoor plumbing to education, employment etc. Blacks 'there' are the minority and have laws and a few powerful movements to protect minority rights. Blacks 'here' are the majority by far and have many laws ensuring that their majority rights are protected. They run the country. There is no basis of comparison between blacks 'there' and blacks 'here'. IMHO we don't need any more sharp blacks 'here'. We need the kind of leaders blacks 'there' had and still have. We just have a bunch of orators stuck in the 19th century

      PAP - 2012-10-11 00:04

      Lacrimosewolf - point well taken. An African-American friend of mine recently said to me she was grateful for the slavery of her people. It sort of shocked me at first then I understood what she meant. She was able to be born into a country that has done a far better job of providing opportunities for all races than certainly we have done in S. Africa. And as you said it took America from 1865 (end of their Civil War) until now to get to this point. Just 18 years is not enough time. And with a majority in SA still suffering from poor education from the past, they should not expect significant advancement in such a short timeframe. Nationalization or handing things over to the uneducated would be a crime. Seeing SA from outside the country has been very enlightening for me. No one in America (that I know personally) has much consideration of SA. When I ask them what they know of SA they mention Mandela, Tutu the end of Apartheid, Safari and high crime. SA is off the radar for my American friends. I don't know if that is a good thing or not as I believe SA will once again need western aid as it seems to be running itself into the ground.

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-10-11 00:20

      The deal sold for the last 40+ years became contorted and convoluted. Democracy as an ideal, a concept was sold hand-in-hand with guarantees of remedying all that ailed people. Even 'there' people live in squalor, have no health care, edu, etc. This is the contortion. Democracy was sold as a magic sword. Attain democracy and all ills fall away. Utopia. Now there are all these Ts&Cs and woefully inadequate delivery and clinging to a patriarchy culture and trying to bend that (and it is bend, rather than wean), to accommodate where we are now. The bottom line is they are the majority, they have laws and a system to ensure that. They own and run the country. What they do with it, what happens next, is entirely up to them. No country or culture can survive when its premise and raison d'etre lies all in the past - ask the Hapsburgs :). We have to have people who can envision and shape a future. When the majority spend all their time and energy, thinking attitudes, beliefs in the past, well it's same treadmill different hamster.

      liesure.larry - 2012-10-11 00:45

      PAP i'm with you. I life on a small island with 96% of the population being black and we have no problem at all. We don't have a fence or any security measures at our house, all open. The problem in South Africa is as follows : Education, Security, Food, Health and Economy. If the Government could fix those five aspects South Africa would Change. If not the Country will stay exactly the same as it is now if not get worse. I personally don't think a person can compare Slavery to Apartheid as NON of the Slavery Countries was handed to a Black man on Silver Platter.

      liesure.larry - 2012-10-11 00:47

      Sorry in Fact Haiti got their independence and look where they are now...

      PAP - 2012-10-11 01:03

      Jeremy - if you are addressing my post I point out to you that I am not calling blacks names. I am using an appropriate adjective. My own daughter who passed Matric with a score >90% has been refused admission into any SA University in favor of Blacks who passed with far less marks. She was howevever accepted into Medical School here in the States. The majority of graduating students in SA could not even be considered for admission into American Universities because while they may have passed Matric, their scores were too low for minimum requirements which hovers around ~85-88%. I can't rightfully use the word "Uneducated" to describe these students because they received the same education as my daughter.” Ignorant” is the most respectful adjective I can think of. Thick, Delayed would be too crass. These poor SA students don’t know what they don’t know, yet they feel good about themselves for having passed their Matric. Not even considering the requirement to pass continues to be lowered in order to accommodate their ignorance.

      sandy.sutherland.58 - 2012-10-11 08:54

      @Sibusiso - YOU are talking rubbish, my daughter is approaching the age of us considering uni - so we went to Stellenbosch to have her do an assessment - they told us categorically there exactly what PAP is saying - white kids with 95% average are being turned away to give preference to black kids with 72% average - pretty much to be PC! From the horses mouth!

      PAP - 2012-10-11 12:00

      Sandy - in a way I'm pleased that my daughter was turned down in favor of less intelligent (or say less scoring blacks). She can now study in the States. I don't know if my countrymen realize that even Dr. Christian Barnard came to America to receive his Docorate in Medicine (University of Minnesotta). I grew up during Apartheid. As a woman and Indian I was in some ways "held back", but I made sure I had a good education, started my own company and now retired under the age of 55. If one want's do do something, they can. I expected no handouts, took no handouts and neither have my children. Why can I make it - even to move be able to the States for a while, and others sit under a tree picking their nose pointing their other finger at the white man as if to blame him that the tree is not shady enough.

      estee.mente - 2012-10-11 12:09

      You guys are talking nonsense, The fact that you have high walls on your houses (as if they can stop anyone)does not mean that, this is the case for all South Africans. Explore your country, please!!!!

      sauvignon.blanc.31 - 2012-10-11 12:58

      pap - your level of stupidity is appauling. How you of all people can ever call blacks ignorant is a joke. the way you refer to south african blacks and american blacks is so backwards. I lived in america for over 10 years and you have no idea what the hell you talking about. Black people in america are so angry and disillusioned. here even the poorest black person can greet you with a genuine smile, in america, black people will have much more materially but still have such anger, they have little or no culture outside of hip hop music - they have been rejected and disenfranchised by america for centuries, herded into ghetto neighbourhoods with poor schooling , crack influx, and low wage jobs. you are clueless about america lady.with all the poverty here, at least blacks have their cultural heritage and some sense of community. you people can all keep looking at america as the shining beacon of society, but it just reflects your lack of understanding of the world. blacks were disenfranchised by apartheid and to think that they are free from the effects of that is just stupid. its not an excuse but a reality. the anc is horribly corrupt, and blaming whites is not the solution, but do not deny the fact that whites benefitted hugely economically from apartheid, because you just sound like an idiot when you do people. and im white.

      sauvignon.blanc.31 - 2012-10-11 12:59

      'Blacks here are so much better than s.a'' - my goodness pap you are as dumb as a plank

      sauvignon.blanc.31 - 2012-10-11 13:15

      why is every news24 reader a racist who uses anc's incompetence as an excuse for their racism. the anc is corrupt so now its 'those stupid blacks'' and ''oh they bringin out the race card again making excuses bladdy useless blacks''....do you have any clue how racist and redneck you sound? to deny the fact that whites benefitted from apartheid economically is just plain dumb. we did benefit, we still benefit from cheap black labour, just as corporates and the developed world benefits from poor countries and cheap labor. use your brains news24 people , you all just jump to react without ever thinking. whites are not to blame for the current state of affairs, the anc is corrupt (as every governentment in the world is), but the fact still remains that blacks in the majority are poor and do not have the opportunities to move forward. stop denying this fact and going on about how you are white and was once poor but now you worked your way to success. no one cares. try being an uneducated xhosa speaking poor person and working your way to success- much harder. so have all the hate you want for the anc but DO NOT HATE THE POOR PEOPLE, THEY ARE ALSO VICTIMS OF THIS GOVT. and stop pretending you did not benefit from apartheid, when you live in a huge house with 3 gardeners and 3 maids, and your company plays your employees 2 grand a month. thanks and go well (im white )

      liesure.larry - 2012-10-11 14:16

      Sauv.. "why is every news24 reader a racist "... So what you are saying is that you RACIST? Come on buddy you can't generalize like that, can you???

      ppisciotta - 2012-10-12 14:45

      sauvignon.blanc.31 - I am both SA and American citizen - paying taxes to both countries. Own homes in both countries. Now - carry on with your dribble about what I don't know.

  • crracker.crackerr - 2012-10-10 22:44

    Mantashe is in any event talking crap. He should go and check who the Irish Coffee drinkers in this country are. Times have changed. The rubbish we get sprayed with is just astounding. The likes of Mantashe are millionaires. Based on what we know of their salaries.

      lacrimose.wolf - 2012-10-10 23:14

      Some take their Irish with J&B. Others with Johnny Walker Blue. Times have changed, and Tomorrow is Not Enough

      sedeshan - 2012-10-12 14:40

      True. Mantashe has no place to talk because he's probably sitting with millions. I like the way politicians always go on and on about the poor - "they don't have this, we need to get them that, etc..." when they're the ones directly responsible for the crap! It's corrupt at the top.

  • nomvete - 2012-10-10 22:45

    Mantashe even knows of Irish Coffee? he must be one of its drinkers, people at the bottom know not nor have they ever seen it.

  • Rhulani Coleman Mkhwanazi - 2012-10-10 22:46

    Mantashe, I suspect you passed by Hilbrow asking for something to smoke before you get to New Town seminar. Im black but inside of my head i'm white.

      crracker.crackerr - 2012-10-10 22:54

      I say let's legalize dagga. We are all going to need it. Probably 24/24 the way things are going.

      africa.tshipembe - 2012-10-11 04:32

      @Nketso,maybe you also smoked what Mantashe smoked,there is no Mkhwanazi who is muVenda,stupid uninformed moron. and you Rhulani what exactly do you mean by inside my head im white?

      JohncarlosBiza - 2012-10-11 06:34

      Not fitting black stereotypes does not make you white inside. It simply makes you an individual

      merven.halo - 2012-10-11 07:27

      @nketso - why do you feel insecure when an intelligent black emerge? What Rhulani Coleman Mkhwanazi means by: inside his head his white? I think he means - he realise the ANC is a cancer destroying this country - he realise you must work hard to get something in life - all the things the ANC promise is a bunch of lies because he understand point two - the ANC self enrich themselves and feel squat for the general population - even with AA and BEE blacks will never be free until they change their entitlement mindsets and start to earn instead of demand. How am I doing Rhulani Coleman Mkhwanazi so far?

  • dan.gleebits.33 - 2012-10-10 22:46

    Excellent analogy Mantashe - but how rich and toxic those sprinklings are to our country, and notice how large parts of the cream have been swirling to the bottom as well. The sprinklings also feel untouchable on their bed of white foam (and green wealth). Separated from the black liquid mass below, they don't give a damn about the rest of the mixture, but a radical stirring is about to bring meltdown to them. Enjoy it while you can.

  • tobydt - 2012-10-10 22:48

    Look at the ANC, ANCYL, not one will admit to being racist.

  • adriaan.delange.94 - 2012-10-10 22:49

    Apartheid again. Mantashe and the ANC(CNA) can talk good about whites your f____ rasist

      adriaan.delange.94 - 2012-10-11 01:32

      Mantashe need new teath, maybe will he talk sence for once in his life.

  • TheSingingHorse - 2012-10-10 22:51

    He should know,he can afford Irish coffee. Him and all the rest.

  • tiaan.truter - 2012-10-10 22:55

    Okay...so lets go with this theory quick,if one looks at that picture and think for themselves,which im pretty sure you didnt do.You would see that there isnt much white on the top,so that means that the white (white people) worked there way up to get there.So please Mantashe can you please stfu coz you are starting to sound like Malema now,and just for the record,you need the white and black/brown stuff to work together to make a good irish coffee you stupid fool.

      Moi - 2012-10-11 08:41

      Really Jeremy?? So no white person in South Africa ever achieved anything on merit and hard work?

  • kamogelo.majoe - 2012-10-10 22:58

    i totally agree with u Mr Mantashe.i want to live in a country where i am not judged by the colour of my skin but by what i am capable of doing.

      bevan.carpenter.1 - 2012-10-11 07:21

      but in the very article and every day life lately, BEE included, racial lines are drawn and sides are chosen, the hypocrisy in society is unbelievable nowadays

      merven.halo - 2012-10-11 07:29

      Lol, as long as there is AA and BEE you will be judged by the colour of your skin.

  • peter.mansfield.395 - 2012-10-10 23:00

    Why? Because the ANC passed laws to make things equal, but forgot to train people for the higher positions. PLEASE, let them start the training TODAY, ans stop blaming the trained for the fact that the untrained don't have akills.

      hartmut.gneiting - 2012-10-10 23:06

      who should train whom? We don't have the human material on both sides. The few intelligent people of all colours resorted to the short cut, corruption and bribery

      merven.halo - 2012-10-11 07:30

      "The few intelligent people of all colours resorted to the short cut, corruption and bribery" That is nonsense. The dumb people that got into positions they don't deserve resorted to the short cut, corruption and bribery. The others are doing just well.

  • joe.smit.549 - 2012-10-10 23:02

    A society created by the ruling party, friend....

  • sheik.mohammad.378 - 2012-10-10 23:04

    Racist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Sibusiso - 2012-10-11 00:59

      Sheik I would like to ask, how well do you know the history of your country S.A?

      pieter.calitz - 2012-10-11 01:05

      @sheik.mohammad.378. Black people can never be racist. They are denyracists - which means like the government they deny being racist but actually are the biggest racists.

      robert.rob.7505 - 2012-10-11 16:23

      Sibusiso I have numerous books on history - I'll have to loan you some.

  • hartmut.gneiting - 2012-10-10 23:04

    he forgot about the whit sugar which didn't desolve and went to ground. The white cream is so thin that the chocolate flakes on top will hit the ground very soon. Mantashe is right, but the whit cream was carrying the flakes and he is one of them.

  • kyle.r.lottering - 2012-10-10 23:08

    thanks mantashe. Hate you even more now.. Black people are their own worst enemy. The government is useless and just complains about whites. And the cattle just follow. Whites are not on top. We struggle too. We just don't live in townships. Instead we stay in our own villages, waiting in fright for this black coffee to break in and rob us. If thats on top, then this is a very small cup u speak of.

  • cindy.wrathex.ruthven - 2012-10-10 23:10

    "this was resented by some because black children in model C schools were seen as "betraying the cause", he said. - soooo, it's a black mentality problem not so ? Says the big majority to the tiny minority - laughable really.

  • megan.perrow - 2012-10-10 23:14

    Mantashe how very racist of you and ignorant. Whites battle too without luxuries, typical of a racist though to only see what you want to see. Please do SA a favour and remove your head from your as*

  • Mandy Casey - 2012-10-10 23:31

    You know what's going to happen when you turn that cup upside down!

      merven.halo - 2012-10-11 07:36

      "You know what's going to happen when you turn that cup upside down!" Your typical Africa tale. Show one African country that became stronger after the blacks took over and the evidence is already start to show in SA.

      stirrer.stirrer - 2012-10-11 10:50

      LOL, cream always floats to the top ;-)

      sam.ntshangase - 2012-10-11 19:07

      White cream is very resistant/sticky ask\r\n Mugabe will tell you

  • jeffrey.d.walker.9 - 2012-10-10 23:31

    What happened to FREEDOM of ASSOCIATION ? Freedom of speech ? Why do you want to TAKE what was never yours? why can you not make your own business that can succeed? There is a reason why white's are still tops, it's called brains and dedication, productivity, something you sadly lack, now put that in your pipe and smoke it. You can only change things by making it law, because you completely lack the skills.

  • trevor.bush.9655 - 2012-10-10 23:35

    ANC=Racism..they DEFINE it by policies and national speaches...how does this man stand up right when he has no spine, even within the ANC he is known as atwo faced yellow back.

  • bnnyoni - 2012-10-10 23:36

    Dats true..

      dmandere - 2012-10-10 23:56

      say that again...

  • BulletProof. - 2012-10-10 23:37

    F*** You , you are the bloody racist and comunist and you are trying to keep your job with you sealy propaganda, wich I hope you will loose soon.

  • Kyle Reeler - 2012-10-10 23:38

    Don't insult the Irish you tool!

  • gregory.jurgens - 2012-10-10 23:39

    When the ANC turns the whole country into a ghetto then we will all be equal.

  • flyswat - 2012-10-10 23:46

    Ag jinne... it seems the people are not winning the battle against their own skin.

  • jeffrey.d.walker.9 - 2012-10-10 23:47

    There's only one problem with your Irish coffee in real life, the white is actually at the bottom being squeezed dry by the sheer volume of blacks on top, and clambering to be on top by any means possible, wether by law, ,corruption, by violence, intimidation

      merven.halo - 2012-10-11 07:38

      Shame, lerato is just another AA candidate unable to achieve anything without corruption and ANC funding.

      nienke.blaauwjenkinson - 2012-10-11 08:08

      Lerato, now who's being racist? Anyway, the way this country is going...those might be the only jobs left - to serve the 1%, whether they are white or black. White people will take those jobs gladly if thats all thats left. So ja. In the end, poverty will make us all equal. Unless we stop this racist bickering and start throwing the elite out of our country!!!!

      Moi - 2012-10-11 08:57

      You don't get out much, do you lerato? For many years now, there have been white guards, garden boys, maids, trash collectors etc....

  • fanie.weydeman - 2012-10-10 23:56

    \And it will be like that till Jesus comes\

      Sibusiso - 2012-10-11 00:07

      But Obama has more pigmentation, I guess Jesus has given up on coming back.

      lerato.kay.3 - 2012-10-11 07:51

      @fanie, that's what the boermag thought and well the rest is history

  • yolanda.haripersad.1 - 2012-10-10 23:58

    Life is just better with masala tea!

  • sarel.brits - 2012-10-10 23:58

    I wonder how the hell does this fool get to that when white people all live together they are racist but if black live together they are oppressed, If a white man has a job he's Boss is not applying BEE and a black man with a job is elitist, any body can live where ever they want if they can afford it, good luck to them it’s the law. And just because I choose to associate with my own people does not mean I hate black people or wish them everything I would wish for myself. What ells do the ANC want from us they take our money our jobs they want tell us where to live pretty soon we will have noting to lose? Mantsche next time you are on the toilet look down between your legs, you will see the true reflection of true African racist in the water admit it yourself before you tell the FF and the DA they are racist.

  • jacowium - 2012-10-11 00:20

    A misrepresentation/oversimplification of the real state of affairs, designed purely to shore up more resentment amongst the ill-informed against those with paler skins. Well done, Mr. Mantashe, your ANC/triumvirate credentials are firmly established.

  • eduard.homes - 2012-10-11 00:23

    this pork chop is the same as JZ...he brings up race to hide his lack of ability

  • martha.stclair - 2012-10-11 00:28

    Pray tell how you plan to unite us if every second word that comes out an ANC politicians mouth is evil white this or evil white that. Shut up, educate our youth, get rid of corruption, just do your fricking job as a government! I am so over this constant blame game. Sort out your own mess and set a positive example for ALL south africans!!!

  • geronimo.feather - 2012-10-11 00:39

    Some black people still really struggle with massive inferiority complexes, don't they? With all the white man has achieved in this country in such little time I can easily understand why. Improve and build, challenge yourselves, emulate the great western 1st world nations if you have to, embrace the role and contribution of the white man, recognise his value in our country, and don't feel ashamed to have to do so. But try not to break, destroy and dismantle like the rest of Africa (the African way).

      geronimo.feather - 2012-10-11 00:39

      and above all, embrace Irish Coffee... it's a rather delicious drink.

      geronimo.feather - 2012-10-11 00:53

      Sbu The cities and infrastructure sprung up pretty fast (the introduction of the wheel helped speed up the progress a great deal) but Rome wasn't built in a day after all, something that old tokoloshe Gwede would be wise to realise instead of trying to foist unrealistic ideas in the heads of the sheeple. Maybe he will get his wish of seeing some umLungus living in the townships in 100 years?

      Sibusiso - 2012-10-11 01:33

      Well my dream is to see previously disadvantaged people out of shacks and to see all of us build prosperous future. I wouldn't want to see anyone go through what the so called \black people\ went through during apartheid. Having said that, I wish everyone in S.A could have equal opportunities to education, jobs, medical care etc. And all of that cannot happen in 18 years. To say that the more pigmented leadership has totally failed to improve lives of South Africans is ignorant. Gautrain was not there, OR Thambo airport was not that big. Yes the ANC is corrupt and I hate it but that doesn't mean they are worse than the apartheid government. And I'm happy that the so called \white people\ are part of South Africa because without them South Africa wouldn't be South Africa

  • clifton.evans.79 - 2012-10-11 00:56

    It would appear that the 'sprinkling of chocolate' would be the ANC leadership and their Cadres. I guess there is a new struggle: Who can best screw the pooch.

  • marlene.black.9809 - 2012-10-11 01:21

    You can't build a nation if the greedy fingers in the cookie jar have stolen all the cookies. It doesn't matter what colour the fingers are...

  • wize.man.31 - 2012-10-11 02:11

    "We can't have a society that is described as equal when it is not." SCREW YOU!!!! My niece got rejected from UCT. She is a straight A student and she is devastated! Her parents were prepared to borrow money to give her a future. They are not well-off but they were prepared to sacrifice their whole lives to give her an opertunity to get somewhere. I disagree. Society is equal. The government and their "by-laws" are "unequal"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For F@ck sake. This girl's first year in highschool, she was the only white girl in her entire class. As bright as she was, she was intimidated in doing her piers homework etc... How equal is that for you? She didn't even know what apartheid was until we explained it to her last week.

      wize.man.31 - 2012-10-11 02:47

      Not true bro. Bring me names and qualifications. Been there and done that. This girl was told in advance, in class, that her black buddies will get preference. Her 80%+ is almost as good as their 50/60%. It started a big debate in class as one of the biggest arguments came from a low grade student (black) living very high up on the hills of Plattekloof. I think it is not fair. Neither this girl or her parents were part of the injustice done to black people. Why punish them? Because of their colour? That is being rasist in my eyes!

      merven.halo - 2012-10-11 07:52

      "no one will be refused entry on colour basis" The UCT medical students admission policy is well known. How is that really different than refused entry on colour basis? Stop lying lerato, it might work on tenders but not here.

  • issaskar.afrika - 2012-10-11 03:36

    Geees !!! When last was this Gwede in Parlament ! Seriosly do you still feel and act like the minortity ! Don't spoil a good drink mister Gwede with foolish comments

  • deus.exmachina.58367 - 2012-10-11 03:45

    Tolerance? Acceptance? ...when you are forced to accept sub standard thinking (and by implication doing), you are a traitor to your own values. The choice is then to accept to fit in, or to F off...Irish Coffee culture or not, you cannot make a black man white, and vice versa, just on say so. Sad as it is, all men are not created equal, its about survival of the fittest. It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence. Mahatma Gandhi

  • ernest.lwandle - 2012-10-11 04:12

    where is malema on that irish coffee ?

      gerrit.vanpletzen - 2012-10-11 06:46

      The big fat bluefly that spoils it.

  • marie.smit.566 - 2012-10-11 04:19

    Interesting comment, Gwede "Sprinkle" Mantashe........

  • jaap.kotze - 2012-10-11 04:53

    For as long as you cant see and honestly realise why this is so, it will remain like that. And.....Im afraid, that is probably for ever.

  • sphala - 2012-10-11 04:55

    Stop complaining Mantashe please...deliver or step down cause complaining will just exhaust our energy.

  • sefako.mokgalaka - 2012-10-11 05:04

    1. True - we are not equal \r\n2. Voters gave ANC a blank cheque to close the inequality gap. Instead of bridging the gap between rich and poor, ANC created millionaires from nowhere without working for the millions.\r\n3. To deny that blacks are still at the bottom after 17 years of taking over from the previous regime, is selfish.\r\n4. To fix the problem we need to adopt the private schooling methods in public schools and standardize. Same with private health and public health systems. Public servants must use public health and public schools. \r\nIf we sit back and ignore what is happening around us, we can be sure of some kind of unrest.

      nhlanhla.mahlangu.7393 - 2012-10-11 06:32

      luv ur comments, when i did my matric in a public skul we had only 1 microscope in the hall instead of lab. n to my amusement we were neva allowed 2 use computers. I learnt ol of that @ tertiary, feel lyk cryin wen i luk bck n surely we shud be workin 2 demystify dat notion bt govt s not doin us any favour!

      michelle.mackenzie.779642 - 2012-10-11 12:12

      so very true! Whilst our history cannot be ignored it is the here-and-now that matters. Too many of our citizens are suffering and angry and it cannot all be laid at the of white people.