News24

Tread carefully on land issues, Mulder warned

2012-02-16 16:15

Cape Town - Tread very carefully on the emotive issue of land reform, President Jacob Zuma warned Freedom Front Plus leader Pieter Mulder on Thursday.

"[It] must be handled with utmost care, and not in the careless and callous manner in which Honourable Mulder handled it yesterday," he said, responding in the National Assembly to debate on his state of the nation address.

Zuma told MPs that Mulder had stunned the nation with his "bold denial of historical facts about land dispossession".

A day earlier, Mulder - who serves as deputy agriculture minister in Zuma's Cabinet - told the House that black "Bantu-speaking" people had no historical claim to 40% of the country.

"Africans in particular never in the past lived in the whole of South Africa... There is sufficient proof that there were no Bantu-speaking people in the Western Cape and north western Cape," he said.

These areas formed 40% of South Africa’s land surface, he said.

Mulder also took issue with the land ownership figures cited by Zuma in his address last week.

"The president quotes in his address the department of rural development’s figures on land reform.

"According to [these], white people possessed 87% of the land, and the government had reached only eight percent of its 30% [land reform] target. I seriously differ from these figures," Mulder said.

Responsible leadership


On Thursday, Zuma said his government had resolved to address the land reform problem through restitution, redistribution and tenure reform within the confines of the Constitution, and informed by a policy of reconciliation and nation building.

"We felt it was not going to help the country to be emotional about the land question. We therefore urge Honourable Mulder to tread very carefully on this matter," he said.

It was an extremely sensitive issue, and for the majority of people in the country it was "a matter of life and death".

"That is why we have been very careful on this matter, and I don't think we should provoke emotions in this country. We shouldn't. It's wrong, it's not good leadership, no matter what your constituents may think," he said.

Zuma then repeated: "It's not good leadership."

He said the government had introduced a green paper on land reform because it wanted to handle the matter responsibly.

A lesson it had learned over the years was that the process of acquiring and redistributing a particular piece of land was often lengthy.

"And this escalates the cost of redistribution because the former owner stops [investing] in the land. Many of the farms are therefore in a poor state at the time of acquisition, with very low productivity."

Zuma noted the centenary of the 1913 Land Act was only a matter of months away.

"It is in the interests of all South Africans, black and white, and in the interests of national reconciliation that we proceed... guided by the Constitution.

He was interrupted at this point in his address by a question from Freedom Front Plus MP Pieter Groenewald.

"Mr President, do you think it is responsible leadership if some leaders in the ANC [are] constantly telling white people that they've stolen the land and thereby are thieves? Is that responsible leadership?" Groenewald wanted to know.

Responding through the Speaker, Zuma replied: "Honourable speaker, I am sure the honourable member does not want me to get to the land question; how the land happened to be in the hands of the minority in this country.

"I have said we are dealing with this matter responsibly. That does not change the facts of history, but it says we are a responsible leadership today."

His response was greeted with applause from ruling-party benches.

Comments
  • Merkwaardig - 2012-02-16 16:21

    "...how the land happened to be in the hands of the minority in this country". Because they were productive, hard-working, ambitious, progressive... How does that sound?

      Koos - 2012-02-16 16:32

      @stan, the plank, at least we did not steal that mercedes you drive......

      renaldogouws - 2012-02-16 16:35

      Why does he have to tread carefully. You see this is once again that sense of entitlement doing the rounds. If there was a study done and it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt then why does he have to be sensitive to tell the black people that the land doesn't belong to them? Oh right... that would be stupid and racist to ask seeing that im white and can't argue over something so close to the ANC's heart.

      Koos - 2012-02-16 16:42

      @Sunnyboy, your name says everything....sunnyBOY!!!!!

      Dirk - 2012-02-16 16:52

      I think a good test would be to look at the farms which have been given to "emerging" farmers- it will give you some idea of what would happen to food production in SA. I rest my case.

      Willie - 2012-02-16 16:52

      This are the results of sunset clauses,now we are back to square one. During CODESA the ANc was in hurry to enter into agreements that compromised lot of things.

      Vusi - 2012-02-16 16:55

      Sad to tell all of you on here......Mulder is 100% right. No kidding! I made it my business to get to the bottom of this issue and my burning realistic question to my people is the following. Please tell me with a government that has stolen R25.4 Billion in one tax year, where will they find the spare cash to equip all of the emerging farmers even if they take the farms from white? Then please tell me how are all of you going to feel when the price of food doubles? Will every one of us 45 Million get a farm???? That should then be fair, shouldn't it? Wake up South Africa, you heading down the same road as Zimbabwe and that as we all know is just a dump ruled by a crazy old man.

      msendi - 2012-02-16 17:38

      My advice to my white countrymen… Please, AVOID GOING TO WAR WITH PEOPLE OF AFRICAN ANCESTRY by any possible means. The reason why Mandela took a peaceful way of resolving issues doesn't mean that he is a coward. He knows what can happen in we can use weapons to solve our problems… Some people are just commenting, but if people choose Zimbabwean way of solving land issue, there is nothing they can do… We still have a chance to solve this issue peacefully. Lets take the peaceful way instead of provoking each other…

      Dave - 2012-02-16 17:44

      Give the land back to the original owners the koi-San any body after that black or white stole it!!!!!!!!!!!

      John - 2012-02-16 17:46

      @ Vusi Government is printing the new money. Will be enough money for everyone and all losses will be recovered. I wonder how they are planning to print food, but they are are a responsible leadership. Mogabe will share his spirit with us.

      Louis - 2012-02-16 18:35

      That twit Zero(Zuma) says Mulder must be responsible as it is a sensitive issue. Hell what did he say when that idiot malema sang "kill the boer" and that the whites are thieves and more recently the comments about the Judiciary. Get real Zero. How sensitive do you think the whites are when your buddy fatso says those terrible things. I suppose it's ok because he black.

      Tony - 2012-02-16 20:43

      Stan, the thieving baaastards are in power, we're talking about those other folk ... The wit ous....

      rowen.loretz - 2012-02-16 22:31

      "As God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience." Colossians 3:12

      carpejugulim - 2012-02-17 08:25

      Realistically speaking it takes money to make a farm productive. Please understand this has nothing to do with race but has everything to do with farming. Fertiliser going from R 100 a bag to R 600 a bag in less than a month. Eskom loading the price of electricity to farms, urban electricity is going up 25% farm electricity will go up 26%, not to mention additional monthly fees added to the elctricity accounts like line fees, pole fees, service fees (R12.45 per day), network charge(R15.20 per day) and environmental fees. Bear in mind it is very difficult to irrigate without electricity. There is also a difference in price for summer and winter. The cost of equipment is prohibitive as is the fuel price. The above are all realities faced by farmers (regardless of skin colour) There is no support structure in place to assist and educate emerging farmers and I am not surprised that newly redistributed or acquired farms are non productive in less than a year. Food prices will continue to climb until they have more than doubled and we will be facing a huge food shortage in the not too distant future

      Nkulekweni - 2012-02-17 12:24

      No they were bullies with guns. You see that in the play ground everyday. Its not hard work to be a bully.

      Abram - 2012-02-17 13:44

      Where did they buy land from?who was selling the land if they never steal.

      Joe - 2012-02-17 15:15

      Mulder was spot on. Out of all the responses from various SA political players not one could challenge his statements. The majority of South Africans will resist Mulder's comments  for obvious reasons. The truth is unfortunately not one of those reasons. Mulder only scraped the top of this iceberg. Comprehensively researching this land issue will reveal just how many lies have been fed to the voting public over the last couple of years. The ANC can deny this all they want, but something very wrong is busy happening in this country. You cannot build a sustainable future on lies. In addition, DNA research has proven that all people living in SA are settlers. http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/we-are-all-settlers-in-sa-1.366860

      Benmica - 2012-02-19 22:10

      No, you are wrong, they bought it.

      Sharon - 2012-06-07 13:56

      two bar lips dont understand this,and quite frankly im getting sick and tired of being threatened

  • Glyn - 2012-02-16 16:23

    @Zuma - The truth hurts. Tough! This country has had enough of "government by slogans"! This country has had enough of "government by fear"! Give the anc a fright, vote DA!

      Antebellum - 2012-02-17 17:51

      The DA is siding with the ANC on this one: http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/Mulder-denying-our-history-DA-20120216 The DA is idiologically identical to the ANC, they would just love to shove their socialism down your throat.

      Michael - 2012-02-21 09:47

      @antebellum - djy praat stront!

  • J-Man - 2012-02-16 16:23

    I see a storm coming...

      Jason - 2012-02-16 16:24

      I agree, dark clouds on the horizon!

      Angelo Major - 2012-02-16 16:25

      A. ZA

      Jason - 2012-02-16 16:26

      Why are all my comments being deleted

      Kgaogelo - 2012-02-16 16:36

      @Jay,It's because you are white.

      Johan - 2012-02-16 16:55

      ....In a teacup as usual.... Anc has no grounds for arguing the facts.

      Dirk - 2012-02-16 16:59

      The storm is coming even without the land issue. After all, the country is in a state of collapse. Mulder should resign and stop giving credibility to the regime.

      Mc - 2012-02-16 16:59

      Negative about your own Country.

      Herman - 2012-02-16 17:32

      Racism is so alive and kicking in SA, whover denies is this is blind and very ignorant. The storm is comming strongly and it is going to be a dark day when it hits....

  • E=MC2 - 2012-02-16 16:24

    hahahaha! id comment but this sums it all up nicely: "Mr President, do you think it is responsible leadership if some leaders in the ANC [are] constantly telling white people that they've stolen the land and thereby are thieves? Is that responsible leadership?" Groenewald wanted to know." Put THAT in your pipe & smoke it Mr President!

      Gerhard - 2012-02-16 16:33

      It gets them votes doesn't it? Why be responsible? The longer they keep saying what the sheeple want to hear and the longer the sheeple keep voting for them, the more time they have to rob us blind. I give up, let them come take my farm. Wait, I don't have a fuggin farm!!!

  • Ben - 2012-02-16 16:24

    Malema and others started this, not Mulder.

      Alex - 2012-02-16 17:24

      MC and the similarities between the rhetoric of Malema Terreblanche and Verwoerd is astounding.

  • ivan.coetzee2 - 2012-02-16 16:28

    The TRUTH HURTS ZUMA, SUCK IT UP ALONG WITH A SPOON STFU

  • Gregory Jurgens - 2012-02-16 16:29

    The settlers stole productive farms from the Zulus. The whites stole their tractors burned down their houses. Is that what Zuma is implying

      Modipi Ngulube - 2012-02-16 16:32

      Stupid immature argument that you are bringing to the table my friend. Waste of time aswel!

      Koos - 2012-02-16 16:40

      @Modipi Ngulube - that is exactly what your showahead prezzie implies. The witbaas gave you food, housing, schools, hospitals, electricity, etc, etc. What did your brotha's and Sista's ever invent? Oh wait - SWEET FUGG ALL

      Modipi Ngulube - 2012-02-16 16:57

      Its this kind of mentality that infuriates me. Who said we needed those things. Now we sitting with all this beautiful technology but the energy that fuels it is killing our planet. So in essence my friend the white man is claiming the price for global warming and all its consequences. Don't be foolish africans still had it good with or without your inventions, we had the beautiful sun that kept us warm all year round the vegetation that kept us fed all year. What did europeans have cold nasty weather and since you killed off almost all your wildlife with your trophy hunting you coudnt wait to come to africa to ruin it!

      Dirk - 2012-02-16 17:03

      Tractors? Those with 4 legs and two long sharp "headlights" on which you place candles

      Mc - 2012-02-16 17:04

      Moegoe !

      Gregory Jurgens - 2012-02-16 17:10

      Ngulube, it's not just the whites it's the entire human race that's destroying this planet . We are a virus, HIV is mother natures antibiotic. Mother nature is a lot stronger the we are. It's just matter of time. She will win in the end.

      Bobo - 2012-02-16 23:46

      @ Modipi : You said "Its this kind of mentality that infuriates me. Who said we needed those things."....You are dead right and just confirms what i`ve been saying all along: We simply don`t think alike and hate to be ruled by anyone else exept our own kind. We didn`t needed technology,or schools or hospitals or medecine,or any modern homes,sports facilities,etc etc...We were happy, and look what monster they created. We didn`t wanted their "Baas education" so we burned down their schools they builded for us. We want to go back 300 years ! So Modipi:Why don`t you start doing something about it and start by throwing that silly PC away and go live in the mountains some where in Natal ? Maybe then you will be one with nature and stop hating white people and technology.Will that make you happy ?

  • pray4wind - 2012-02-16 16:32

    Our "honourable president" needs to wake the hell up!!! Its okay for him and his cronies to go around saying all kinds of things they want about taking land away, but when a counter argument is levelled, a warning immediately goes out??? What happened to free-speech and what happened to the dream of a free country where everyone has the same rights? Zuma, wait for the next election, Buddy, you are gonna have a huge shock!

      david.lebethe - 2012-02-16 16:41

      Bull. All that Groenewald was attempting to do was to distract Zuma from his address and as a leader, he is right, one must act responsibly. Otherwise, if you want to pursue Groenawld's argument you are more than welcome. This is outside Parliament, I will tell you how whites stole the lands from us.

      Kevin - 2012-02-16 16:54

      OK tell us numbnuts...since you been around for ages!!!

      pray4wind - 2012-02-17 00:47

      David Lebethe, mr lawyer, church-father or whatever... Dont come and "bull" me, I'm not your family, okay? Our president, Zuma, is very hard to distract, because he hardly looks up from his prepared speeches... He cant even finish a single line without having to look down. And dont talk nonsense to me about my ancestors taking your land! THIS IS OUR LAND, mine and yours! It belongs to every single legal South African that carries a passport/ID, pays taxes and whom votes, come election time. Therefor, according to the Constitution that he loves toting, as the best in the world...you, me and everyone else should have the same rights and opportunities. Where that dambed Constitution fails, is that it doesnt state that changes should not happen at the expense of anyone... How do you do that? Elect leaders not based on tribal alliances and race, but on credibility and suitability to perform the job of transforming South Africa through hard work and leadership. Not through creating a sense of entitlement by making empty promises to an uneducated populace, that you keep stupid with bad education. NO David, another wrong to fix an old one, will get SA nowhere but the same as the rest of the stuffup that lies north of our borders.

      Abram - 2012-02-17 13:54

      Like Malema has freedom of speech

  • Marius Koen - 2012-02-16 16:32

    Looking at the rate white farmers are killed in our country, it wont take to long before they will all be gone. I suppose the farms will then be handed over to the "rightfull" owners. Good luck feeding the masses.

      Verminator - 2012-02-17 18:42

      thanks

  • JohncarlosBiza - 2012-02-16 16:34

    I don't know(or care, really) how correct Mulder is, but what he said was called for after the constant one-sided white bashing all this time.

  • Kgaogelo - 2012-02-16 16:34

    Mr Mulder is stating facts that are not rellevant! People who applied for land restitution in the Western Cape and Northern Cape are mostly San, Khoi and Griqua dessendants e.g The Riemvasmak, Rechtersveld and other communities in the Boland. The land claims process is not there to deal with the land ownership as far back as 1652. It is aimed at redressing and compensating for land dispossesions as of 1914 forced removal of peoples from land which they had rightfully occupied by then! Believe me Mr mulder, if we were to go that far back in history, you and your ilk would have nowhere to go!

      Koos - 2012-02-16 16:46

      You are not relevant! You are an ignorant fool with nothing between the ears, except for that thin pice of wire. Cut it and your ears will also fall off, moron

      Kgaogelo - 2012-02-16 16:50

      ha ha ha ha,take it easy dude. Don't make it a personal issue.

      Kevin - 2012-02-16 16:57

      And you have rightfull claim to which hectare of dirt....icehole!!!

      Gerhard - 2012-02-16 16:59

      I wonder if the white majorities in Europe have similar debates with the black minority on their news sites? I reckon we should just do a fair trade with Europe. Us 4 million odd whites can go back to Europe and the 15 million odd blacks in Europe can come back here. So there will be even less to go around.

      Dirk - 2012-02-16 17:07

      It is Doctor Mulder and he got it in the days that you still needed to work for it- not from Cuba.

      Hugh - 2012-02-17 14:47

      Kgaoelo, you are correct in the the 1913 land act, black folk were forbidden to own land. The Nats on the other hand took land but in most cases compensated with other land in the outback as it were. Ive no issue with that, on the condition that if you live on land given as compensation during those forced removals, you got to give it back to the Government when you get you're old place back. As for the no place to stay, dont start with an issue you know nothing about, as you're forefathers had no means to record history and what Mulder said pertained to those times when the boers left the cape, they could wright and did record history. There were no blacks by definition in the cape. You can sing dixy though any orifice you want but the truth is not written by the ANC.

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-02-18 23:55

      You are right,in part, Kgoagelo. The people were removed to create Wildlife reserves. Good or bad, without our wildlife heritage, no one would come to Africa. It's a bit of a two-way street, this one. If you live in an alternative place, what are the consequences? You have to evolve, and that is the empirical nature of the World. Cosatu demand the same increase every year, even if the Company has lost huge profit margins. I only have Matric, and I can see that increases in salaries are counter-productive. Less and less people will be employed. We have to think more, and find a mutual solution to this mess.

  • Peter - 2012-02-16 16:35

    What has happened to some of the best producing farms that were handed over??

      Gerhard - 2012-02-16 16:44

      They were sold back to white farmers for a 100% profit. It's never been about the land, it's all about the money.

      Kusleg - 2012-02-16 16:52

      It is non of your business. You do not lecture us on how we must utilize what belongs to us. We are grazing wild animals in there ...are you answered ?

      Wim - 2012-02-16 17:15

      We all know you are grazing animals there. The question is where does those animals get their pap from.

      Donny Doncaster - 2012-02-16 22:55

      Haha! Lekker Wim!

  • emile.marais - 2012-02-16 16:36

    Zuma has a valid point. But, responsible leadership? Not to sure I agree with you there Mr. President.

  • Morama - 2012-02-16 16:42

    This is one of the issues that made Julias malema to look bad? This comment would never last!!!!

      Gregory Jurgens - 2012-02-16 17:22

      If it wasn't for the white farms JuJu would be a skinny dude today. That phutu he eats comes from a white owned farm.

  • Mziwandile - 2012-02-16 16:45

    @renaldoqows, a study done by who? Bla"ck majority, white Minority?"

  • Shirley - 2012-02-16 16:45

    Seeing as you removed my comment Il ask the question AGAIN!!!! Why must whites always tread carefully when discussing land reform? As far as I know since 1994 this country belongs to ALL South Africans!The perpetual racial devide that is intentionally brought up is taking us backwards! Because you are black in this country should NOT mean you are automatically entitled to everything!White people I know have worked HARD for years to have what they own!

      Irene - 2012-02-16 21:33

      Well said Shirley. These fools think we went to ATM machines and it just gave money because of the colour of our skin, or just wrote cheques that the bank would honour. As for my house and land, I own the deeds. I bought it. It wasn't given to me and nor was it stolen. Got it through sheer damn hard work. Hard work? Now that's a concept that's not understood because it's always you must geeeeeeeve. Stuff that!

      Verminator - 2012-02-17 18:43

      using black labour

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-02-19 03:52

      Yes, African - and paid. It is a JOB. Everyone is clamouring for jobs. Because of propoganda everyone believes they should be doctors, lawyers, or quantity surveyors. Nobody wants to be a worker - everyone wants to be the Boss. Get real please.

  • Aaron - 2012-02-16 16:46

    I honestly don't understand all the fuss about land. Land, by itself, is worthless unless you have the ability and motivation to do something with it. Giving away hectares to people who have no idea how to use it productively, achieves absolutely nothing and will not automatically make them wealthy.

  • roodbol - 2012-02-16 16:54

    Does land reform work in Zim? Anywhere in Africa? And stupid governments STILL don't get it! First the new government takes it all, then they distribute to those who don't care less about farming, new land 'owners' of this gift-farm [for free] kill all the animals, chop off the trees and chill-out eagerly waiting for more land gifts. NO production, NO contribution to their country. No difference than in SA at this time. Only a handful of [black/coloured] farmers who make us proud. And yes, land is being transferred to families that do not have a residence history in SA for decades!

      Verminator - 2012-02-17 18:48

      the situation with Zimbabwe is Mugabe, he had the right ideaa of taking land away from the europeans but went wrong when he started attacking the africans which in turn caused the educated Zimbabweans to flee their country but in the future i see a good future for Zimbabwe when Mugabe is dead

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-02-19 00:02

      theafrican - he attacked the Matabele before he demanded the land back from the White farmers. Please supply me with the stats of how many he exterminated? Please tell me how many farm worker lost their jobs and their homes? We have 3 million well-educated Zimbabweans in our Country today. If you were employing, which would you choose?

  • Victor - 2012-02-16 16:56

    Mulder is absolutely right. The ANC must stop making promises to their voters. With the re-distribution of farms to the so-called previous disadvantaged, it is still shocking to see how many of these farmers become self efficient. The majority still remains a burden for the tax payer, and successfull previous owned farms becomes just another piece of veld.

  • Sigmund - 2012-02-16 16:58

    Helloooooooooo There is still coloured people in this country,and dont you think we should have a say in.........the whole of the western cape,and then they say we are to many coloureds in the western cape,its because we belong here,bleddie moegoes

      Gerhard - 2012-02-16 17:07

      Coloureds have a big problem. They will get land, but only half of what every other black gets. But the problem is, they will also have to go back to Europe because whites are not welcome here.

      Ben - 2012-02-16 17:08

      Now we are talking. Someone must have completely forgotten. This issue is more complicated than some people might think.

  • Alex - 2012-02-16 16:59

    I am reposting For a moment, i would like to look at some current information on this Land issue Relatives of mine own a Small farm in Limpopo. This farm and most of the surrounding farms have land claims against them, many of these claims have been resolved. When my family became aware of the land claim against the farm, they investigated various ways to resolve the issue, for all parties. What they discovered was: 1. In most instances where the claim had been resolved, those instituting the claim had CHOSEN monetary compensation for their claim and not to own the land itself. 2. As this was the preferred solution to claims, land ownership was not transferred and therefore the goals of land reform were not being reached. Due to this, and the government running out of funds for land reform, this process was stopped. 3. As in England, a 99 year lease option was introduced. The individuals with valid claims would own the land and would lease it indefinitely to the current occupants. I cannot comment on the success of this and how many claims were settled in this manner. 4. My relatives felt that they would like to lease the land from the community claiming it. They had the land, buildings, and infrastructure of the farm valued and approached the necessary parties with the proposal. 6 years later, there has been no response from the community claiming the land or the department. (I have run out of characters :) )

      Gerhard - 2012-02-16 17:01

      Like I keep saying, it has never been about the land, it's always been about the money.

  • Koketso - 2012-02-16 17:00

    I am patiently waiting for civil war to erupt in this country, there are people who, after 18 years of ANC rule, still do not have access to clean water?!!-Shameful-. Minorities still fail to see the effects of apartheid and openly undermine everything Africans try to do and achieve. The ANC is still unwilling to look past themselves to help fix solutions to their corruption stats and their declining public confidence. FF+, DA, ANC this country has more important issues that need to be dealt with than this land reclaim you keep bringing up, please STOP WASTING OUR TIME or else this land will not be worth reclaiming when citizens start killing one another. Africans need to wipe out this "money-loving" "BMW-praising" "if-you-got-it-flaunt-it" mentality n start working on developing this country to be self-sustaining. Instead of building more RDP houses, find ways to build more factories so people can get jobs and build their own damn houses.

      Ben - 2012-02-16 17:18

      Wise words and so true. Obviously politicians wont agree with you because their main purpose in life is to look after themselves.

      StarStruck - 2012-02-16 19:01

      Very true Koketso.

      Hugh - 2012-02-17 14:55

      You're words to gods ears. If the R30Bn a year wasted by incompetent government officials was spent on infrastructure we would not be having this debate.

      Marius - 2012-02-18 23:34

      You are right Koketso: Land reform is an emotional issue that will not bring prosperity to any individual or the country as a whole. The ANC should goevern the country and all the individuals in it to prosperity. But sadly they have proven themselves incapable of anything but rethoric and self enrichment .... time to change goerments, and ideally for a race/colour blind one, with knowledgeable people and a performance culture.

  • mike.clery - 2012-02-16 17:01

    Zuma was right to warn Mulder. People believe what they want to believe, regardless of the facts. And Groenewald was right to point out that Zuma's own party leaders are fanning the flames.

      Wim - 2012-02-16 17:28

      You shouldn't have slept through your history classes.

      david.lebethe - 2012-02-16 17:34

      I wouldn't be like you. You can't distinguish wrong from right. Both individuals come from different backgrounds and pursue different ideologies and therefore can't always see things the same way. Please, try again my friend or just get out of the debate - it is clearly above you.

      mike.clery - 2012-02-16 17:51

      Like I said, people believe what they want to believe. Read what Mulder said and check that with a bit of very basic research. But arguing about what happened 200-300 years ago won't help SA today.

      StarStruck - 2012-02-16 19:06

      I agree Mike. This has to be dealt with responsibly.

      Irene - 2012-02-16 21:37

      David, it doesn't matter what background you come from, a fact is a fact. Live with it. Stop trying to continually be getting the free handout.

  • Alex - 2012-02-16 17:01

    And again Cont... 5. The community with the claim are in fact from Mozambique and had never own the land. They have worked on the the for a period of several months. 6. The claims where ownership was transferred, much of this land stands vacant and unused. In one incident, the new owners moved onto their farm, lived there for a month or so. Once the electricity and water had been cut off due to lack of payment, they moved off the farm and it now stands vacant and unused. In another incident, the new owners lived on the land, and off it until the established resources where finished, at which point they left the land and it's remains vacant and unused. My family's neighbor entered into negotiations regarding their claim. They were happy to sell the land. However, those claiming it wanted them to remain on the land, continue managing the farm and orchid for them, for free. People are willing to sell their land and reach agreements on claims. However the department and claiming communities are often not taking steps to reach a solution.

  • Johan - 2012-02-16 17:02

    It is fine! Just give the land to the already. I have had enough now. I will grow my own vegetable garden and import beef from Namibia. We can easily grow our own food in our gardens and swop out with neighbours. We can get chickens for eggs, and a little goat or two in the backyard will solve the question of milk. Let them take all the farms and then starve to death on the very farms that were given to them. No sweat off my back.

      Hugh - 2012-02-17 14:59

      the goats solve mowing lawns too, they mow and they fertilise.

      Verminator - 2012-02-17 19:02

      oh go back to europe instead

  • Tc - 2012-02-16 17:04

    To klap baas Zuma sy skoothondjie! Arme Pietertjie.

  • Bongeka - 2012-02-16 17:07

    You know this white and black debate is now boring.Guys can't you see the race card debate has no winners? If I say you're white and you did this and that then you must be punished or labelled a racist or any kind of that sort,then you're going to retaliate,won't you?After retaliation then I'll say something else to put more fuel in the fire and you'll definitely do the same.So who is going to win or lose in this game?NOBODY,PERIOD. People of South Africa please grow up and stop being so imotional.Well to be imotional is natural,so just stop starting these race debates.History can never be changed but future is in our hands.And the future is our children's.So,do we want our children to grow up fighting about the same race sh******t?C'mon maan.When are we gonna trust each other and live happly ever after?Or is that just a dream? Since history cannot be changed then if I remind you of what happened in the past then don't be defensive,just tell me okay Bongeka I know that but since we can't change it then let's move on and build our beautiful country together.If we can do that then I don't think we'll read all these negative comments.

      ISO - 2012-02-16 17:17

      I fully agree with you! Lets work together and build this country for all!

      Kerry - 2012-02-16 17:46

      This is the best comment I have read on this site in years. Well said. People need to get over all of the sh** and start working together. The country will continue to fail until we all look toward the future together. United we stand and all that.......

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-02-16 17:53

      I agree with you. Thought of not commenting at all due to headache of reading all these commentary, but decide to reply to yours.

      Sunshine - 2012-02-16 23:24

      Bongeka, if only all of our politicians thought and spoke as you do. Well said, well said indeed. That's more like the South Africa I want to live in.

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-02-19 00:11

      Bongeka, are you in the Eastern Cape? I would really like to meet you. We live near Uitenhage. It's time the people of this Country who care about moving forward get together and network. It'ts not just the responsibility of Government.

  • Vaaldonkie - 2012-02-16 17:07

    A veiled threat if I ever heard one...

  • ISO - 2012-02-16 17:09

    Saying this or that, is not going to change anyting! The government has plenty of land that could be developed! So much money is spend of land restitution, redistribution and what else. Use this money instead by helping emerging farmers to build this country to a powerhouse for Africa. Those farms that are already producing should be left alone, develop the unprocessed lands! Plain and simple!

  • david.lebethe - 2012-02-16 17:12

    @Koos. You can hardly point out any spelling mistake I committed. I am sure your problem is understanding some English terms and think I must be wrong. Do know however, that I don't speak English in Afrikaans. I had time and courage to learn it including to go to English medium speaking university at the height of Apartheid and when blacks had to seek ministerial permission from the government (which was only offered to foreign students) and later gained post graduate qualifications from another liberal university. Besides, spelling can't detract from the core of information unless you are yourself stupid.

      Hugo - 2012-02-16 19:22

      nazo!

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-02-19 00:25

      David, well said. We lose a lot in translation. It is cultural, social, languages, attitude and manners - all are in the mix. Why you got a 150 thumbs down, is beyond me. Both the statement and your reply was open to interpretation. Some just saw your surname and decided on a thumbs down.

  • Serame - 2012-02-16 17:16

    If u want to know how the land happend to be in the handz of minority in this country..Watch Cry for Freedom and Sarafina..It was through greed,extreme brutality and force..and if julius findz his way..It will be taken back in the same way or worse..Watch it..I dont like Zuma as a person and president of the country..but he's absolutely right in saying that it is an emotive issue that must dealt with very carefuly..or else?@~#..If u want this country to go through thisb route..Then im sure ANC wouldnt mind to review JUJU'S case and unleash him..

      Irene - 2012-02-16 21:38

      We're ready pal.

  • david.lebethe - 2012-02-16 17:26

    @Kevin. It's not a question of been around for ages but a matter for research and having inquisitive mind. Otherwise, you will not learn anything from watching news and reading newspapers from the sanctity of your living room. You will have to shrug off your butt and go to school. It won't help to rely on your skin in order to get things working. Hence, most of you are stucked and don't know what to do when things have changed. It is not too late to go to school and acquire suitable qualifications. In fcat, many have used their qualifications as a passport to find work overseas than to remonstrate with history.

  • Gregory Jurgens - 2012-02-16 17:26

    That Samp and Beans, Zuma ate after raping that chick came from a white owned farm.

      Hugo - 2012-02-16 19:23

      Zuma never raped any ' chick'(whatever that is).

  • alan.carstens - 2012-02-16 17:31

    And when Julius Malema says he wants to take land without paying for it then President keeps his mouth shut!?!?!??!

  • Modipi Ngulube - 2012-02-16 17:36

    After much commenting I have come to the realization that there are way too many racists out there especially whites who still have a "we saved you(blacks)" attitude, thus u still think you are superior to other races ofcoz blacks in particular. Such a shame!

      Kerry - 2012-02-16 17:53

      You're right, it is a shame. I have been embarrassed reading these comments. We need to get past all of this sh**. Terrible things happened in the past, it wasn't ok and we can't just sweep it under the carpet. Having said that, once we have owned what was done by our ancestors (as white people), black South Africans need to stop pointing fingers and making out that everything that is wrong with the country is the fault of white people. We need to unite and work together. We need to educate all of our children, equally and properly and we need to try to start to understand each other. We also need to know that we will never understand each other whilst we are yelling at each other and pointing fingers. White people are no better or worse than black people. People are just people, skin colour is incidental.

      Shirley - 2012-02-16 17:56

      The biggest RACIST is you! Saved from what???? LOOK AT EVERY BLACK RUN COUNTRY-POVERTY,CORRUPTION,STARVATION,need I say more?

      Alex - 2012-02-16 20:16

      Shirley, while the colour of a country's president is irrelevant, perhaps you should consider the current US President and the 'brilliant' leadership of his predecessor. There are no corruption-free Coutries in the world. It is naive to think so. However there are levels of corruption and yes Africa is a complete shambles because of it. But this has nothing to do with the amount of melanin present in those that run the country.

      butho.ndlovu - 2012-02-16 20:40

      Mugabe must prevail here, they better hate us with a snake venon this time, we were always their door mates, Mr Mulder pack your land and go back to where u come from

  • n.thendo - 2012-02-16 17:39

    why does the majority look at the minority as if they are just incapable human beings. You say a white suburb looks better than black residential areas but you forget that it is the black that cleans up after you without complaining because he understands that in order to survive one must work. So you still think that black people can't work that land properly???

      Gregory Jurgens - 2012-02-16 17:42

      Read your comment carefully , U have made a mistake ( FAIL )

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-02-19 00:30

      Nthendo, why do I have to clean up after my farm workers? They simply won't clean up their own mess after hours. Bottles, plastic bags, old shoes,food rotting in the pot standing outside. If you had tenants on your property - would you allow it?

  • GoldenTeacher - 2012-02-16 17:45

    And let the small minded stereotyping commence...

  • Modipi Ngulube - 2012-02-16 17:45

    After much commenting I have come to the realization that there are way too many racists out there especially whites who still have a "we saved you(blacks)" attitude, thus u still think you are superior to other races ofcoz blacks in particular. Such a shame!

  • Modipi Ngulube - 2012-02-16 17:46

    After much commenting I have come to the realization that there are way too many racists out there especially whites who still have a "we saved you(blacks)" attitude, thus u still think you are superior to other races ofcoz blacks in particular. Such a shame!

  • CALAMITYSA - 2012-02-16 17:49

    Jacob - Come and look at the state of the farms purchased in the Marico area. The farmers also got money - not loans - for infrastructure - to buy equipment and cattle. Big money - in excess of R10m for 2 farms. The cattle have been eaten - 2 per weekend - and the other "farmer" only want's to farm with 20 head. This will happen to ALL the farms you want to ACQUIRE. Please be very careful. Come and look - please, and bring your minister of Agriculture and her 2IC along!!

  • Xolile Templeton Mbayi - 2012-02-16 17:57

    Have u ever heard Africans crusading to other continents and forcefully claiming the land from it rightful owners? It unheard of. If the west could do the same, even racism wouldn't have existed in the first place.

      Wim - 2012-02-16 18:34

      Were you going to do it with stone age boats?

      Donaker - 2012-02-16 18:50

      I suppose the Koi-San were friendly asked to leave

      Hugo - 2012-02-16 19:27

      The khoikhoi and the san peoples HAPPILY INTERMARRIED with Mulder's bantu(jeepers) speakers,so much so that the 'bantu' languages are invariably linked to the clicks of these great tribes

      Sarel Brits - 2012-02-17 04:55

      I am sure Shaka would have, If they knew how to ge off the continent or build a boat or invented the wheel but hey at least they tried, they massacred their neighbouring tribes, be that on foot...without shoes. Ruff lot these Zulu's

  • Stephen - 2012-02-16 18:19

    There you go. Pious injunctions not to be "emotive, it's bad leadership, irresponsible" etc. "Let us guide you to a sensible position". Also a veiled threat in there. The patronising language of the master, guided by his assumed higher moral ground. Yes Mr Zuma, but is it true? Mulder's statements were factual, but when the truth, or a version of the truth is expressed by whites, the fury and righteous indignation is quick to the fore. And what about our emotions, anyway?

      Shirley - 2012-02-16 18:48

      Its way above his head!

      Hugo - 2012-02-16 19:29

      ok Stephen let us all be careless and see how it goes

  • Brainbow Gold - 2012-02-16 18:28

    Who owns the air we breathe? Who owns the light we see? Who owns the earth beneath our feet? Who owns us?

  • Agedah Alex - 2012-02-16 18:50

    Maybe Jacob Zuma and ANC are just too moderate,maybe white folks would prefer a ZANU PF kind of ANC

  • Rhys Vetner - 2012-02-16 19:06

    Trust in the Lord.

  • Rhys Vetner - 2012-02-16 19:07

    what was said before the battle of blood river , since there seems so much history debate going on?

  • Willem - 2012-02-16 19:42

    If issue is emotive, civilized people should get factual, isn't it?

  • Thabang - 2012-02-16 19:53

    Has anyone ever asked themselves why some white people are so afraid to be on par with the African people in Africa? To all my naturalised European Africans,Africa and her people love peace,Africans will always share whatever little they have with all of you,Africans will always provide you with a shelter when you have none. Welcome to Africa

      TaniaSandraSteyn - 2012-02-19 00:41

      Thabang - it comes down to taking responsibility for your own life. People are worried about the rhetoric out there. I love the culture of Ubuntu, but it has been warped by political fat cats. We will give you this, we will give you that - where did that money come from? After the huge amounts they have stolen or lost due to incompetence? No SA resident needs to be poor. Or the rest of Africa for that matter. ALL residents' resources are still being exploited by only a few. We are in a class war - not a race war. Why is Botswana such a successful Country?

  • butho.ndlovu - 2012-02-16 20:08

    me Mulder stop provoking people, we have saluted you for a very long time calling you baas, now please give us some respect no matter how small

  • Thabang - 2012-02-16 20:13

    Is there any person who intentionally chooses Racism? Please share with us your reasons for your choice.

      butho.ndlovu - 2012-02-16 20:33

      Thabang it was all started by some silly idiot who still thinks they own black pple