News24

Zuma land comments slammed

2012-06-27 14:33

Johannesburg - President Jacob Zuma's criticism of the willing buyer, willing seller land restitution process is misplaced, AfriForum said on Wednesday.

"The ANC continually claims that the willing buyer, willing seller approach is too slow and cumbersome, yet the corruption and incompetence of the department of land reform is overlooked," AfriForum spokesperson Cornelius Jansen van Rensburg said.

In his opening address at the ANC policy conference in Midrand on Tuesday, Zuma called for a review of the policy, echoing the contents of the green paper on land reform.

Zuma said: "Our position is that the current willing buyer, willing seller model must be reviewed.

"It tends to distort the land market through inflating the prices of land earmarked for restitution. It makes land reform expensive and delays land redistribution to the poor."

Bureaucracy

But AfriForum said the government should blame the delays on its own bureaucracy.

"Several land claims are dragging on because the state simply does not want to bring them to a close," Jansen van Rensburg said.

"Moreover, numerous farmers have already provided land for land restitution, but without success."

Jansen van Rensburg said the proposals in the green paper could have political repercussions and undermine South Africa's property market and economy.

On Tuesday, Zuma reassured South Africans that any changes to the land policy would be done without changing the Constitution. Delegates to the conference would consider policy changes to speed up land reform.

In the lead-up to the four-day event, there had been calls for a change to Section 25 of the Constitution, which refers to property rights and sets out conditions for the expropriation of land with compensation.

The ANC's constitution requires that a policy conference be held at least six months before its national conference, to review ANC policies and recommend amendments or new policies.

The policy decisions made at the policy conference will be discussed and finalised at the 53rd ANC national conference in Mangaung, Free State, in December. These policies would form the basis for the ANC government's policies, new laws or amended laws.

Comments
  • thebe.tau - 2012-06-27 14:40

    AfriForeign

      Bardy - 2012-06-27 14:48

      Why should farmers that have successful farms and are feeding the nation, give their ground to people how originated from central and northern Africa? Why can't the government give these so called "poor" people land that is not being used? There are thousands of square meters of land these people can claim! Why go and destroy productive farms?

      kayley.segal - 2012-06-27 15:11

      Easy solution: Use The Namibian approach. Farmer wants to sell, gets an offer from someone and signs a binding contract. The contract is submitted to the Government. They have "right of first refusal". The Government can then buy the farm by matching the contract price. If they don't want to match the offer then they issue a "certificate of no interest". Then the original sale can go through. The original owner gets his "market price". Win/Win. There are plenty of farms for sale if they really wanted a just solution. However, "the corruption and incompetence of the department of land reform" means that all the money for such deals has been stolen or misappropriated. Besides, why pay for something that you can steal later?

      grant.hide - 2012-06-27 15:54

      Good time to buy a farm overseas :) Large export potential coming up.

      iceberg.standard - 2012-06-27 17:48

      It is the most INSANE IDEA to take a working commercial farm and give it to the "poor". What in God's name is the "poor" going to do with the land? Zuma is just trying to sooth the idiots calling for nationalization and expropriation.

      downwiththeANC - 2012-06-27 18:19

      BUT THE LAND BELONGED TO THE KHOI SAN BEFORE THE ZULU'S AND THE XHOSA's. Surely they must get the first say in all this. The others came from the north of Africa. How long must we deny this???

      antin.herinck - 2012-06-27 18:28

      Look at the pic, this corrupt, uneducated joke will probably be your President of the RSA for five more years. Very proud of him you are then, Thebe, Pricktor?

      emile.vanrayner.7 - 2012-06-27 20:26

      entitlement is a b*tch

      liana.loots - 2012-06-28 12:51

      @SiyandaWalterMDA...why are you reading and commenting if you believe you are better than the 'people'. Lol, slumming it today hmmmm :)

      boltonbarry - 2012-06-29 15:29

      For the same reason that the ANC government will evict Africans from state owned land

  • Kala - 2012-06-27 14:40

    The fact of the matter is that the anc really don't want to give anything to the poor. There is nothing in it for the cronies. All they really want is the votes and so far the mere promise of land has been sufficient to garner the required number of votes. If you want land, save up your money and go get it yourself like most other land owners have done.

      chris.gill.9849 - 2012-06-27 15:09

      @Mavis, the same as everyone got those free houses that were promised?

      Heibrin - 2012-06-27 15:09

      @mavis: and who are the rightful owners?

      norman.depluhm - 2012-06-27 15:46

      @Manu: Get your head out of your ass, there are plenty of anti-white rants on these pages. Further, the media is actually to blame for pushing sensationalist dribble which tends to favour the ANC cause as it is always the ANC flapping its big mouth without making good on any of the election season promises. They are in charge of ensuring that the previously disadvantaged are restituted, but have you not noticed how it's the same bigwigs getting the tenders every time?! At grossly inflated prices!? Imagine all those tenders went to different black owned businesses evenly spread, there would be plenty to go around. Same goes for land, if the process is slow, take a good look at who's overseeing it, it's your mates, go talk to them. Take a look anywhere else in the world, the issue is not race, it is the have-nots pissed off at the haves. This is either because they're to lazy to go make something to have, or they have suffered at the hands of an unfair world, which is exactly what it is. Whitey's have to slave to the bones through blood sweat and tears to eke out a basic living and provide for their family, but we don't go threatening, intimidating and murdering the guy who came right and made some money, yet we all equally dislike big commerce because they screw us all, the banks, cell service providers etc. Monopoly capital is a pain in the ass, but we all suffer its effects equally, that is the world. Wake up and open your eyes to the world, the alternative is ignorance...

      whyeti - 2012-06-27 15:48

      How much land is vacant and owned by Government or local authorities? Why can this land not be used for distribution? Then let the so called landles peoples start farms to produce food for the nation with the help of Government. Do not destroy our present food security system as has been proved in the past where productive farms were handed over to the landless.

      norman.depluhm - 2012-06-27 15:51

      @Kala & Mavis : You chaps better calm down about this 'rightful owner' business, because you are not the rightful 'owners' either if there even was such a thing. Imagine the whole world had to go back in history to where we all came from? Where does it start and where does it end? It's only idiotic situations like the middle east where they still fight over this crap. Oh, and china still wants tibet, and Russia smashed Giorgia a little while ago and took some of it back. Those are not examples of progressive success, they are examples of oppressive regimes. The sooner you get over your entitlement issue, the sooner you will move on and up in the world. I agree the past was unfair, I agree there should be systems in place to redress it. The ones that have been installed have been designed to funnel all the benefits to a few...

      manu.dibango.96 - 2012-06-27 16:06

      norman, what you are saying is just a rehash of the same old defence, "This is mine, I work hard, I suffer a lot, get your own you lazy person, it's not my fault that the masses are poor." This argument would have merit if it were not about a finite resource. I could tell someone to get their own food, their own home, or even their business. But how can you tell someone to get their own land as if land can be manufactured. Land is a finite resource and that is why it is at the center of disputes the world over. Strangely this understanding seems to be lacking in SA. Let us suppose for a moment that we wake up tomorrow and the majority of farmers in the UK (or any european country for that matter) turn out to be black. Let's go even further and say that the means of production are in the hands of blacks. How long do you think it will take before drastic action is taken or war breaks out? I give it three months.

      victor.tamaranui - 2012-06-27 16:16

      Norman, Non of your arguments have any foundation ,neither for that matter any of your ""Facts""...............Get off the Drugs mate.

      liana.loots - 2012-06-27 16:34

      @Manu..No not war in 3 months, but definitely hunger, becuse the blacks will invite their families and the whole village, slaughter all the cattle and dance around the braaivleis fire. For today we live tomorrow we starve.

      norman.depluhm - 2012-06-27 16:37

      @victor: Whatever you say dude, not gonna have a kindergarden "back at you plus 1" spat with you. Go do some reading...

      norman.depluhm - 2012-06-27 16:46

      @manu: Read what I said again, I did not write about myself. I am pointing out some objective issues, which we all need to work toward getting fixed before it ends in tears. It boils down to that old bible thing. A man who has a fish eats for a day, a man who knows how to fish eats a little more often. So, great, lets get some farms going in black hands, lets collectively support the concept and ensure those farms succeed. I'm all for it. But if government owns more than 70% of the land, why take away operating farms and gamble with food security. Someone else pointed out that the apartheid government assisted white farmers with loans, and support programs. Historical and ethnic context aside, it worked. South Africa produces food. ANC say that is what they are doing, albeit too slowly, but they don't stay in for the long haul to ensure those farms succeed. Let's not get into the statistics of what percentage of transferred farms are still operational. All I'm saying, and for the benefit of the previously disadvantaged, is that it should be done properly, and not as a function of election season promises getting everyone all hot under the collar when nothing real, tangible or sustainable ever comes of it.

      liana.loots - 2012-06-27 18:11

      No Manu, you are the one missing the point. I love this country and I do not hate blacks, contrary to your belief. I work with many black people who also love this country and despair of the ANC mismanagement and greed. So you see, it is my black colleagues who influence my thinking. It is YOU that live in a prison of small mindedness and cannot smell the roses for all the sh*t.

      manu.dibango.96 - 2012-06-28 13:05

      So mavis's comment was removed and my comment was also removed. There was nothing wrong with our comments, and we expressed ourselves in a rational and polite manner. All we did is to point out what should be obvious to any rational person or any person with a little understanding of human nature or history. But surprise surprise liana's obviously racist comment was allowed to remain. News24 you are a class act.

      liana.loots - 2012-06-29 19:46

      lol Manu, you are a little boy

  • UncleShep - 2012-06-27 14:44

    oh boy!

  • gustav.kriel.3 - 2012-06-27 14:48

    Shame... These ppl are so dumb, they cant produce/invent/manage/etc themselves so they have to take from others! Welcome to africa!!!

      gustav.kriel.3 - 2012-06-27 15:01

      Troll u wont be tolerated in my section.... go play with ur bow and arrow

      nigel.burgess.52 - 2012-06-27 15:31

      Petrofect - actually we're dealing with Africa very well, it seems you and the ANC can't. So perhaps you should admit failure, be a man and move on...and on, and on, and don't come back to my country.

  • james.bondiski - 2012-06-27 14:50

    Why dont you buy the land fair and square like everyone else had to. There were no free handouts to deeds. Go to the seller with money and negotiate,isnt that how its done all over the world?? Sorry i forgot we are in africa with free handouts to the priviledged few!!!

      victor.tamaranui - 2012-06-27 16:18

      Group areas act and suchlike are not African concepts............WAKE UP.

      Nicolaas - 2012-06-27 17:48

      @TAMATIDOOS, I see you back spitting your stupid drivel again. What, India does not want you back because they not prepared to mess up their clever gene pool by allowing an idiot like you to come and breed there?

      victor.tamaranui - 2012-06-27 18:07

      nicol aas............

      iceberg.standard - 2012-06-27 18:12

      Mavis, you need to brush up on your history. Logbooks of ships passing the Southern tip of Africa as far back as 1608 mentioned the presence of the Goringhaicona, a small group of around fifty Khoikhoi in what is today the Western Cape. These logbooks were not kept for racist reasons, they were part of the procedures on boats that were exploring new worlds. It is just insane to blame the current white population for the exploitation and acquisition of land by the Dutch, Germans and eventually the British. Your hatred of whites will not change the fact that if you expropriate land illegally the country will go hungry like Zimbabwe. Just look at the bigger picture and rise above your hatred of anything white.

  • petrofect - 2012-06-27 14:53

    how is equality undermining South Africa's\r\nproperty market and economy? Nonsense!!!

      victor.tamaranui - 2012-06-27 16:21

      Good question..........seems no logical answer is forthcoming Petro, Cos' one has nothing to do with the other. The land was taken from Blacks as late as the Eighties via the ""Group areas act"" with no compensation.....Guess whom occupies this land now ?/

      Dee - 2012-06-27 16:59

      Tamranui - do you have access to 2012 facts on arable land ownership? I'm not challenging you, merely asking with a REAL desire to know about ALL land ownership including Govt, White, TTL's, Non-White, Foreign, Pending transfer; etc ownership ...(rather than assume we know - in what is after all, an election hot button:)). See my post below.

      victor.tamaranui - 2012-06-27 17:24

      Dee, Your questions are never challenging however you must agree that the Farming and Mining Industries have not done enough regarding the pace of transformation. They have not satisfied the skills or Asset sharing level conducive to the transformation pace. They seem to lag behind intentionally. Unfortunately these Industries require Governmental intervention to speed up the pace. I for one agree with Equality within these Two Industries.

      Dee - 2012-06-27 18:01

      sigh.... Tamaranui ...something got lost in attempted civility and politeness in asking a question (rather than questioning / challenging / entering into conflict). I take it you do not have access to the type of factual info I am seeking. I agree that there is an enormous problem of unemployment. That some (small?) percentage would be 1) WILLING and 2) Equipped - in every sense, for a life in rural commercial farming is also valid. And to satisfy that - I seek facts and figures as a basis for understanding any proposed policy / solution. As far as 'skills and asset' sharing ..... Therein lies a very pertinent debate. One that I would address with emphasis on the word 'development' and then add 'sharing'. e.g. As food production is an imperative for the country, is there space for some 'skills and production development / expansion' in former TTL's before a mere 'take over' of productive assets? Or are we in a phase of SA history where 'radicalism' would have every white person seeking asylum in some foreign country - & farmers taking up offers from other African countries to help them?

      victor.tamaranui - 2012-06-27 18:09

      These Two Industries have had 18 years to shape up........ However they have not...hence the current discussions. They are NOT sharing Skills or Expertise, Now they must be Legislated to do so.

      Wim - 2012-06-27 21:26

      Tamaranui: Could you give an example of one property that was expropriated without compensation from its rightful owner under the Groups Areas Act? Or are you just regurgitating your illiterate myths?

      Antebellum - 2012-06-29 15:24

      Victor, I have asked this question many times and I have never recieved an answer. Can you please define the word "transformation"? What does it mean? Could you please elaborate so that everyone can see its racist nature? Untill someone defines it, we will assume the uncontested definition. "Whites out, blacks in"...

  • Allan - 2012-06-27 14:53

    Produce the facts in how many cases could the government not buy a piece of land as a result of there being no agreement on the price? How many physical Offer To Purchase Agreements have not resulted in a sale transaction? Or is it more that they don't want to pay for it full stop?

  • QuintSch - 2012-06-27 14:54

    How about the government put allocate money for subsidies to all current farmers who: 1. Put aside a small but fair size of land for any PD person (or group) who is willing and wants to learn to farm and run a farm on their own. 2. Who spend a fair amount of time training these new farmers so they can effectively farm totally independently and successfully (say about 3 - 5 years?) So, with proof, these existing farmers will receive a (again) fair subsidy for the land and training. The new farmers can then either keep farming and live off the profits or sell this piece of now productive land back to the farmer (or someone else) and use the proceeds to purchase a bigger farm etc. Just a quick suggestion. Why spend billions of tax payers money 'giving' land to people who really don't want to farm, and the land (and money) eventually goes to waste, and we as a country land up with so many unproductive farms we can't feed ourselves. Or are we almost there already?

      Dee - 2012-06-27 16:24

      Yes ... I really wish we could start the debate with updated 2012 FACTS on e.g.: 1. Total arable land 2. Ownership breakdown qty in 2012 of White, non-white, foreign - and GOVERNMENT OWNED ARABLE LAND (I know there are large black owned wine farms - and many more non-white owned farms besides wine farms - and have never seen stats on govt land). 3. Productivity / contribution to economy of the various land parcels. (e.g. What is happening on previous TTL's?; are there white / foreign owned farms standing idle?) 4. How many black agricultural graduates / aspirants are currently being denied shareholding or ownership? .... Farming is a passion - not for the fainthearted! And then indeed there has to be some 'Win Win' transition way other than "Sell / Give or Be Damned". Incentivise white (and black) farmers to take on training and mentorship in any transition; incentivise co-operative shareholder schemes ......... and report on the FACTS of a great deal of good-will work that actually is happening anyway ...

  • ronnie.henderson.12327 - 2012-06-27 14:57

    Real fools, byt they will never admit it. It's not the market rates that are too high, it's the fact that they purchase productive land, and after a year or two, it costs them double that to keep the farm productive. Their new land owners are incompetent to manage their land, and they expect to be bailed out after a few months. That is why their land reform policy is too expensive!

  • martin.vandermerwe - 2012-06-27 15:03

    "corruption and incompetence" is the corner stone on the ANC's manifesto!

      james.s.bishop.7 - 2012-06-27 18:47

      Didn't Richard Lamola refer to you?

  • richard.hipkin - 2012-06-27 15:04

    The land doesn't belong to you.. http://capeinsight.com/tag/south-africa-land-reform/

  • richard.hipkin - 2012-06-27 15:08

    New settlers were black and white In fact, the whole country had actually belonged to the San and the Nama or Khoikhoin for centuries (Khoisan is the collective name for these two groups). They were equally “non-black” and “non-white”. Over a long time, Bantu-speaking nations migrated from central Africa southwards and the Khoisan communities were driven away, exterminated and absorbed. From 1652, Van Riebeeck and his successors also fought the remaining Khoisan communities in the south and decimated their numbers. In addition, diseases overwhelmed the original nomadic occupants of South Africa. So, in effect, both black and white were actually colonialists and new settlers.

      richard.hipkin - 2012-06-27 15:09

      Now let’s examine the occupation patterns of these new settlers. South Africa covers an area of 1 219 090km². Historically, not a single Zulu, Tswana, Basotho, Pedi or Swazi resided in the Western Cape and few Xhosas were to be found in the north-eastern region. The Western Cape has a surface area of 129 386km², which is 10,6% of South Africa. In the Northern Cape, no Zulu, Xhosa, Basotho, Pedi or Swazi was to be found and very few Tswanas. The province covers 361 830km² or 29,7% of South Africa. What all this ultimately means is that black tribes did not have historical residence in 40% of the country and our borders are not even a century old. Regarding the other 60%, we are faced with contradictions. The Voortrekkers occupied areas where, at the time of the Great Trek, there were no settled black communities.

      gustav.kriel.3 - 2012-06-27 15:30

      I like!!!! Where can i find this info? Thanks

      Dee - 2012-06-27 16:52

      It is a relevant article - lent credence by the author. It could help reduce an "Entitlement" mentality, but does not help resolve the very real problem our country faces today of MILLIONS of people who are not part of our active economy - nor have any real hope of doing so. Handing over farms to some / many cadres I agree is not a solution - but instead of adopting our respective 'Them-Us' lager mentality & argueing 16th century issues, wish the great & ORDINARY minds and hearts of our country could REALLY seek mutual win-win' solutions.

      iceberg.standard - 2012-06-27 18:25

      Craig please provide references for your information please. Would love to read up.

      Boy - 2012-06-27 19:41

      CRAIG=K.....Why don't YOU come and remove me from my land,.,,,

  • Stephen Radebe - 2012-06-27 15:08

    The land issue is no't what the government and the African national congress talking, that is not about mangaung is south Africa issue.

  • azande.futhi - 2012-06-27 15:08

    Can you address the incompetence of the government departments before ruling that the willing buyer willing seller model is failing?

  • charmaine.mcdonald2 - 2012-06-27 15:09

    Rather not comment. The Anc have hatred for the truth.

  • madoda.monamudi - 2012-06-27 15:16

    Land land is over due now I appeal to those who own land to share with us before is too late.

      fanie.dutoit2 - 2012-06-27 15:29

      Your are welcome to come and share as long as you are prepared to share the bond installment as well and the work on the farm

      nigel.burgess.52 - 2012-06-27 15:43

      Demand land from the ANC. They have got plenty land. Toi toi for the land.

      el.torro.509 - 2012-06-27 17:17

      SHare what 30,000 ppl have? So we just give all the land, 30000 black people now have farms how will that dent poverty and unemployment?

      Boy - 2012-06-27 19:42

      BRING IT K!!!!!!

  • Billy - 2012-06-27 15:18

    slammed! lol does he hit his hand on the table and say NO! NO! hahaha sorry, all this slamming i find very funny, yep they slammed it so its cool now.

  • frikkie.botes - 2012-06-27 15:19

    A farmland that costs R1 million and has buildings and business of R2 million cant be sold for R1 million because of the land value, It must be sold for R3 million plus goodwill if there is a business on the place. Goodwill can range depending on the profit margin. why cant the regime get that into its head.

      ditoare.gypsy - 2012-06-28 19:55

      Cos we Are very much prepared to pay R1M for business that cost R3M then sitback and look at the business producing itself, don't forget that we don't need skilled people to do farming all we need is just the LAND, oh gracious lord

      sandra.j.rennie - 2012-06-29 12:23

      Frikkie the goodwill will never stay! That's for sure. The minute this land is in the hand of the new buyer it will plummet, like the planting etc. Profit margins ? Would they still exist ? I don't think so 1

  • sithembisopa.phewa - 2012-06-27 15:23

    let talk about the isue at hand not the colour involve cause at the end of the day everyone want a piece of cake. we can maybe have a 50/50 share on farms rather then buying everything one farmer owns. cause we know that whites are better farmers then blacks due to their experience and we also want blacks to own something.

      africanwolf - 2012-06-27 15:29

      If there is a will there is a way

      fanie.dutoit2 - 2012-06-27 15:31

      No problem if the actual fixed and operating costs are shared equally, and on conditin that the farm will be able to be managed as a economic unit that provides in the needs of more than one farmer.

      nigel.burgess.52 - 2012-06-27 15:47

      Yes, but buy the 50% share like civilised people all over the world. Not on the gimme gimme basis.

  • Mgayi - 2012-06-27 15:25

    Zuma said the country needed to go "back to the basics" and take difficult decisions that it could not take in 1994 . That's the second transition right there , in case you were wondering

      Mgayi - 2012-06-27 16:47

      The pre 1994 land act(s) formally dispossessed black south africans of their land with little or no compensation and forbade them from owning land in white farming areas and prevented white farmers from leasing land to black tenants . So it is safe to assume that the same act(s) afforded whites an opportunity to acquire land for a pittance of money . Now why do the same whites now want millions of rands for that which they paid a pittance for ?

      Irene - 2012-06-27 16:55

      Magayi how much did you pay for a loaf of bread 10 years ago? Economics 101.

      Mgayi - 2012-06-27 17:00

      I baked my own bread 10 years ago , ask me a more relevant question

      Mgayi - 2012-06-27 17:10

      White people are opposing the government's every move to decongest overcrowded informal settlements , what you claim to be your land we need to help black and poor people in rural areas to improve their living standard by enabling them to access and use land productively for small scale farming .

      Irene - 2012-06-27 18:12

      You're obviously not too bright, so I won't bother.

      Mgayi - 2012-06-27 18:19

      You can't spell my name correctly even if it is staring right at you, so you ain't bright in my books either .

  • eric.martinsich - 2012-06-27 15:32

    Afriforum! Afriforum! Go and speak to your fathers and Grandfathers on how many many white afrikaners got their land in South Africa.Most was given to them by the apartheid government and propped up with lots and lots of subsidies and full on training through Agricultural schools for whites. It is time for decent farm land to be distributed to those that were left out.

      banele.xaji - 2012-06-27 16:48

      I agree.

      el.torro.509 - 2012-06-27 17:15

      Land will not get u rich! Why do u think there are only 30000 commercial farmers left? Because we are all urbanised now due to the industrial revolution presenting more lucrative easier to earn opportunities

      abby.salemane - 2012-06-27 20:33

      The Group Areas Act prohibited black people from choosing where they wanted to live, and this made it illegal for blacks to own land so here we are post apartheid those laws are gone and justice is being done. The perpetraitors of these horrofobic laws are not charged and punished for their crimes. Surely it is justice that we pursue and nothing else. We need to narrow the grey ares and shift our paradigms to a new order in finding fairness on this issue before it is too late. Maybe in our pursuit of jutice, we may have to break the law of which of course cannot be condoned, is reminiscent of the dark days of the struggle period and it will be a desperate reaction of the black masses who no longer believe that justice prevails. The ruling party is currently pursuing this very justice through reviewing this very principle justice and endorse a generally undictoral approach and take cognisance of the opinions and wishes of the nation. Ciao

      stuart.lidstone.1 - 2012-06-28 07:36

      @Eric: the deed to the land that we own refers to previous deeds going back to the late 1700's. Each deed mentions a purchase price. Ergo nothing was given but bought!

      gert.grobler.94 - 2012-06-28 07:55

      Every other uneducated fool in SA is also going to start believing your home made history and this will dump us in an unavoidable civil war when people start invading farms and private property. Go back to school and get a history teacher with qualifications and one who is telling the truthy.

      melania.nel - 2012-06-28 19:00

      Eric and Abby. I agree with you on the apartheid issue. It was horrible but don't be fooled into thinking that all the whites profited. I am for one poor and come from a poor family. So did many other white people. A lot of us didn't support the apartheid gov. The problem now (the way I see it) is that those white a..holes who benifited from apartheid, are long gone overseas and people who want to build a future for sa stayed. They bought the farms during the last decade. Not during apartheid. Now they must suffer while the previous oppressors are laughing and enjoying life overseas. \r\nRe the agricultural schools. Your government had 18 years to build a lot of those schools but I fail to see any new ones, so please let me know how they helped any black people to farm? I would love to see everybody prosper in this country, but walking over innocent people to get to the top is morally wrong. Land reform had ample opportunity to buy really cheap bank repo properties and distribute those to poor families, but they also failed to do just that or anything for that matter.

      abby.salemane - 2012-06-28 19:46

      @Nel, thanks for the info...A nation that shares ideas, vision, discuss individual weaknesses, contribute their thoughts empowers people but more importantly leads towards democracy.

      melania.nel - 2012-06-28 21:04

      I for one want to see a happy future for all of us in sa. In my opinion the ANC have no such visions at all. There are reasons why 'white' countries are generally richer. Because they know more. Here the gov had an opportunity to have the first rich black nation but they fail still because knowledge lacks. And they still don't care about the education. See the late books. Ie. Agricultural schools are not expensive to run. It could be lucrative for that matter. I know quite a few black farmers that are doing quite well for themselves. Its still on small scale but I can see the possibilities are there. They got there from training with other white farmers who run farming academies. There's one in delmas. Buhle I think. The gov should stop lying to the people and try to live by their own freedom charter. They take the freedom away from their own people when they steal their education and encourage 'farm stealing'. It has never done any country any good and won't in the future.

  • Musa - 2012-06-27 15:33

    AfriForunm at it again,why shaking sir?

      BigChiefPlumbPudding - 2012-06-27 16:25

      Yes shaking a lot actually. With uncontrollable laughter you idiot.

  • cecilia.vanderwesthuizen.5 - 2012-06-27 15:34

    This is not Zimbawe. The farmers are not just going to give up all their hard work to you for free. Do not try and take what you did not work for. You will be sorry in the end.

  • sikhulile.nkwelo - 2012-06-27 15:35

    willing willing wont work it wil 'bunkrupt' thr state ... \White settlerz never paid\

      africanwolf - 2012-06-27 15:38

      Surprise they did and still are they pay bonds to the bank

      stuart.lidstone.1 - 2012-06-28 07:37

      @sikhulile.nkwelo: the deed to the land that we own refers to previous deeds going back to the late 1700's. Each deed mentions a purchase price. Ergo nothing was given but bought!

  • deon.louw.7505 - 2012-06-27 15:37

    Mr Zuma is using the next 6 months to get a second term in office, not much will change (we hope).

  • andre.stols.581 - 2012-06-27 15:40

    what makes him different from the rest of Africa's way of thinking?-and guess what is happening with the land in the rest of Africa??????

  • lerato.kay.3 - 2012-06-27 15:43

    The land issue is a sensitive subject and judging by some reckless I see on this blog this issue will not end well for some section. In any situation the best way out is through dialogue because if these farmers do not want to release part of their land for redistribution the end result is winner takes all. I feel sorry for the section that will be on the losing side. When land invasion started in Zim, white guys were challenging in courts and all other platforms including the international community, when they realised it was too late for such that’s the only time they offered land to the landless masses but it was too late for that. This is exactly what’s going to happen in SA if some sector feels they have the monopoly to farming feels that black people don’t deserve any land. I urge ANC to drive the land policy aggressively maybe they can get my vote. Any party that does not have economic transformation on their agenda can forget about my vote!

      lerato.kay.3 - 2012-06-27 16:05

      One thing for sure the day is coming and we will see who will laugh lasts. Since there are mighty boers you are covered you can control SA economy till kingdom come, I guess blacks will just have to settle for farm labourors at least they get free transport in the trucks

      africanwolf - 2012-06-27 16:11

      @lerato.kay.3 This is not what I meant I say peaceful solution is always a better solution If I can take a bond from the bank to buy land, why can't you? are you better than me? and if yes in what way? I do not own any property, but not waiting for free handouts either. work is the answer

      norman.depluhm - 2012-06-27 16:20

      @Lerato: and i quote you " I urge ANC to drive the land policy aggressively maybe they can get my vote." That's why this is a topic, even they know it won't work, they just want the masses rearing and angry and voting... Gotta warn you though, they promised houses last election. Schools the election before that. I may get the order wrong or even the time, but the principle is the same. Election season is empty promise season, and the only ones who suffer really are the ones who vote the incompetence and corruption back in for another 4 years...

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-06-27 16:33

      I believe you both have a point, but also need to relax. It is true that we need to get more black farmers with title deeds. It is also true that we need to do it in such a way that production stay on par The problem with a politician preaching re this issue should be the worrying thing Not having a good economical and social record it can only be to stay popular. If the man's intention is so sober why did he had this "pleasing" speech before his 1st selection and than nothing much has happened while now doing the same again. He had his change, but there is not much better to replace him with Why are there land issue and claims that are at such a stage that gov. must just finalize it The agreements were made, but gov. now suddenly delaying. The monies are there. The processes are completed. The reason is that they need to flame the topic up for political gain and when elected they will finalize these transactions with the attitude that they delivered on there promises This is not fair against land owners and new black land owners. The voter get used to enforce/maintain people in power Yes, I also want black people to farm. Own land. Be successful farmers, but do not want them to be set up to fail. The fact is that no-one explain to the people who live in shacks, being in bad conditions, that distributing farms will d nothing for them. They cant go and stay on a farm somewhere where there are no work or hope to farm on small scale It's the same what they left for the cities

      DuToitCoetzee - 2012-06-27 16:36

      We need none political driven intellectuals to tackle this issue and we have them in black, white, brown, red, purple etc, in this country. It will be the only successful solution.

      abby.salemane - 2012-06-27 19:53

      Guys I am impressed, this issue rreally need cool heads...

  • Blackdude80 - 2012-06-27 16:00

    It sucks to be White in this New South Africa.....

      africanwolf - 2012-06-27 16:04

      It looks like part of revenge but as you know, the wheel turns

      Ntuthuko M Simelane - 2012-06-27 16:19

      i dont think that is entirely true sir, im black,i have not enjoyed any of the gravy that the ANC guys are enjoying, guess it sucks not to be in the ANC.

  • dennis.minadoo - 2012-06-27 16:18

    Just a quick suggestion. Why spend billions of tax payers money 'giving' land to people who really don't want to farm, and the land (and money) eventually goes to waste, and we as a country land up with so many unproductive farms we can't feed ourselves. Or are we almost there already? WELL DONE GOVT.

      Ntuthuko M Simelane - 2012-06-27 16:21

      the issue is just ill and used to steer conflict, but i think people are easily fooled,this will never happen,if it does,it will be within the bounds of law and the constitution. sadly,it will still be a few(ANC stalwarts) that benefit

  • cecilia.vanderwesthuizen.5 - 2012-06-27 16:27

    If the government stop using Millions on crap and create more jobs none of this will be happenig. R53 million set aside to change streetnames in Nelspruit for instance. Income surity for all of the poor will be better than to turn South Africa into Zimbabwe where the food production are only 6% at the moment and people are starving to death.

      victor.tamaranui - 2012-06-27 16:54

      Paranoia,

      Barend - 2012-06-27 18:54

      I agree Cecilia. You know what I think happens at them there government offices? They come in at about 11am looking like they all just stepped out of a magazine photo shoot still hung over from breakfast booze and meditate till about 3pm, go to a boardroom for a meeting and start the party all over again. They really only look productive when elections are around the corner. Then I ask you how can they expect the "white people that still own the economy" according to mr.zuma have any faith in anything that they plan for our future? They should not even be in a position to make such decisions. But hey I can be wrong maybe they really work their asses of with all that money they get from the "capitalists" and "imperialists" and make the best possible decisions that affect all our lives.

      cecilia.vanderwesthuizen.5 - 2012-06-27 21:34

      Agreed starstruck. Lets have a look at the president.. He wears clothing worth R25 000 every day.. Buys his wifes cars worth R700 000 and he just sit there in his R7000's pants and watch as his own people suffer. What kind of president does that? Answer; one greedy selfish a.. Hole

  • Diana - 2012-06-27 16:34

    Well that's the ANCs policy to steal and rob. Full stop.

      victor.tamaranui - 2012-06-27 16:55

      The NP taught them well....hehehehehehe

  • el.torro.509 - 2012-06-27 16:50

    I cannot understand this obsession with land creating wealth! The urban consumer demands low prices so commercial farmers have to increase land holdings to meet economy of scale and find more efficient ways of producing, machinery, chemicals etc. Therefore its not going to create wealth or jobs as the days of many toiling the fields are long gone.\r\n\r\nEconomically speaking the agricultural sector is tiny 2 percent of gdp. Therefore if I didn't have a job or wanted to start a business I would look where the money is..industry and services and focus my attentions there. The problem is that these require educated individuals and it seems our government cares little for education!

  • pmalungana - 2012-06-27 17:31

    I think the gap of division between whites and blacks is growing. We have reached a point in which we are at war. Reading from the comments made here whites feel they are under attack from blacks and have to defend themselves. We now have to all re-look our positions and debate whether we are moving towards unity or a more divided nation. We need each other, blacks need jobs from whites and on the other hand whites need cheap labour from blacks. White south africans cannot do domestic and farm labour, they need blacks. blacks cannot access money to start their own companies so they need whites who have the priveleges inherited from the old system. Our president has confirmed that the apartheid era economic system has been left intact when blacks took over the administration of the political system. Land is for whites and blacks should provide cheap labour. Have you ever seen whites doing all these dirty jobs, so that tells you who exactly are in charge of the economy, simple.

  • downwiththeANC - 2012-06-27 18:21

    and once they have taken the land they will want our houses and cars too, as well as our clothes and shoes. White people will be left with nothing. This greed has to stop.

      Hadebe - 2012-06-27 20:52

      How do u propose to stop it

  • rocky.bell.927 - 2012-06-27 18:58

    Our family is sitting with a R5 million outstanding landclaim since 1999 - not a single cent received up to date. The 1460ha farm has gone to the dogs - all infrastructure in derilict state, movables stripped and stolen. The total incompetance and uselessness of the anc is to blame. So don't come to me with your BS. Just FO. Another National Crisis. (ANC)

  • glyn.morgan.96 - 2012-06-27 19:03

    Once again Zuma is telling his audience what they want to hear. He speaks with forked tongue. Vote DA. Give the anc a fright! Get into the 21st century.

  • mark.haupt.31 - 2012-06-27 19:15

    Dangerous talk by someone fighting for his political life, never mind his place at the trough. Never trust a desperate man as his desperation will know no bounds.

  • vernon.annandale.7 - 2012-06-27 19:57

    \ We believe that South Africa belongs to all the people who live in it, and not to one group, be it black or white. We did not want an interracial war, and tried to avoid it to the last minute. If the Court is in doubt about this, it will be seen that the whole history of our organization bears out\ \r\n\r\n\r\nWish this was still the ANC's outlook! Now they just a bunch of thugs and thiefs that will use even their own supporters to line their pockets and drive them to believe that force is the only way, so sad what's happening to this great country of ours

  • Amanda - 2012-06-27 21:51

    @ stupid ignorant Mavis. Do you have proof positive that your family were living in the Colony of Southern Africa in the 18th Century. That is by the way the 1700's. I do have proof of my family arriving here and planting vines in a hostile land- but that doesnt matter anyway anymore because there is bugger all you can steal from me now because I own nothing - no land no house - no nothing. Happy now Rascist????

  • mohlake.tau - 2012-06-28 00:14

    shower head doesnt have a clue on what is going

  • mondli.ngcobo.98 - 2012-06-28 06:26

    AfriForum must understand that the ANC represents the majority of this country. I don't think there are wise people who still listen what Afriforum says. Power to the People!! Viva ANC viva, Viva Lamola Viva, down with angry group like Afriforum down!!

  • gert.grobler.94 - 2012-06-28 07:50

    "Several land claims are dragging on because the state simply does not want to bring them to a close,..." They do this on purpose because they know it will make the hordes impatient and they will eventually simply invade the land AND THEN THEY DON'T HAVE TO MAKE PAYMENTS AND THE MONEY ALLOCATED FOR THIS WILL SIMPLY GO INTO ANC ELITIST'S POCKETS. The farmers defending their rights will either be killed by the masses or thrown off the land. The next step is to 'confiscate' pension funds and it will be given to 'the poor' and we sit with a communist state and we are another step closer to this NWO.

  • shawn.lambert.566 - 2012-06-28 08:06

    Still no focus on education!!!!!!

  • amelia.basson - 2012-06-28 09:05

    Zuma if you ate today ... thank a farmer!

  • Michael - 2012-06-28 09:30

    TYPICAL CHILDISH BALCK MENTALITY OR LACK THERE OF.

  • jarques.cloete - 2012-06-28 09:59

    Even if and when they have taken all the land from productive farmers they will still not be satisfied. Then when the black subsistance farmers fail to keep farms productive and ultimately fail they will always blame colonialism and the 'racism' of white people. They will always blame their failures and shortcomings on other people and never take responsibility for their own failures. I do not care who runs the country - black, white, indian or coloured - as long as it is to the benefit of ALL and fairness to all and holds the individual accountable for their own actions and failures. Sadly I not see this ever happening in SA under an ANC led goverment that is only here to line their pockets adn suck the country dry. Unfortunatly the masses that vote for them is incapable and also unwilling of seeing their deceit and thievery. Very sad...

  • melania.nel - 2012-06-28 19:04

    Apartheid did a number on this country. It was horrible but don't be fooled into thinking that all the whites profited. I am for one poor and come from a poor family. So did many other white people. A lot of us didn't support the apartheid gov. The problem now (the way I see it) is that those white a..holes who benifited from apartheid, are long gone overseas and people who want to build a future for sa stayed. They bought the farms during the last decade. Not during apartheid. Now they must suffer while the previous oppressors are laughing and enjoying life overseas. \r\nRe the agricultural schools. ANC government had 18 years to build a lot of those schools but I fail to see any new ones, so please let me know how they helped any black people to farm? I would love to see everybody prosper in this country, but walking over innocent people to get to the top is morally wrong. Land reform had ample opportunity to buy really cheap bank repo properties and distribute those to poor families, but they also failed to do just anything.

  • vanzyld - 2012-06-29 01:13

    When the ANC came to power in '94 there were around 128,000 White farmers in ZA. Now there are 40,000. How fast do you want it Zuma? More than 4,000 have already been murdered? How many of the 40,000 are aging and their children will not farm in their stead. Then again, a stupid racist like you does not think that far. You have to appear credible for ignorant youth rabble rousers of the ANCYL. Some credible leader you are.

  • Chumscrubber1 - 2012-06-29 07:42

    ANC lies, ANC lack of acceptance of responsibility. Much easier to try to blame us white farmers - its such a pity they cannot be honest. The absolute truth is it is 99% the ANC's fault that land reform has been slow, and such a failure. They have handled this situation shockingly.

  • alon.fisher.752 - 2012-06-29 14:53

    Ag shame He just wants a new runway for his Boeing!!!