News24

Zuma's comments perfectly sound - ANC

2011-12-21 20:19

Johannesburg - President Jacob Zuma's comments about the advent of Christianity in South Africa were "perfectly sound", ANC chief whip Mathole Motshekga said on Wednesday.

"Irresponsible journalism will always find a creative way to mislead, and in this case it inexplicably saw an attack on Christianity in the president's perfectly sound assertion," Motshekga said in a statement.

He was reacting to an article published on the Timeslive website in which Zuma was quoted as telling attendants at the launch of a road safety and anti-crime campaign in KwaZulu-Natal that "as Africans, long before the arrival of religion and [the] gospel, we had our own ways of doing things".

"Those were times that the religious people refer to as dark days, but we know that, during those times, there were no orphans or old age homes. Christianity has brought along these things."

Zuma was further quoted as saying South Africans should return to the "old way of doing things" because modernity had been harmful to society.

"We have passed laws that prohibit you as a parent [from using] corporal punishment. Today, when, as a parent, you bring your child [to] order by using corporal punishment, you are breaking the law, but the person who passed that law cannot raise your child the way you want to."

Zuma said while he did not blame such legislation, "I can't be diplomatic about this. It's a fact".

Colonialism

Motshekga said a distinction needed to be drawn between "Christianity as a faith" and "nefarious missionary activities, which have brought sufferings upon our people".

It was a "historical fact" that certain missionary "enterprises" came to South Africa under the guise of Christianity to aid colonialism.

Motshekga added that even apartheid was practised "under the cloak of Christianity".

"In stressing the importance of ubuntu, the president lamented certain aspects of Western culture which he said had contributed to the corrosion of African value system and culture which are fundamental to national cohesion," said Motshekga.

"While African culture has since time immemorial taught people to care for each other, embrace and show kindness to one another, the advent of Western way of living condoned [a] 'each man for himself' principle.

"This has resulted in elderly people being condemned to old age homes and parentless children sent to orphanages," he said.

African culture

Earlier on Wednesday, the presidency issued a separate statement in which it sought to clarify Zuma's remarks. Spokesperson Mac Maharaj said Zuma had meant to say South Africans should not neglect African culture.

"While we should embrace Western culture and Christianity, we should not neglect the African ways of doing things.

"The president indicated, among other things, that Western culture had brought about the end of the extended family as an institution, leading to the need for government to establish old age homes, orphanages and other mechanisms to support the poor and vulnerable.

"He added that even poverty was an unknown factor as neighbours were always ready to assist each other, giving one another milk or cattle where needed."

Harmful, unjustified

African Christian Democratic Party president Kenneth Meshoe said Zuma's comments were a "hypocritical and unjustified attack on Christianity".

"During elections he [Zuma] runs to churches to get votes," said Meshoe, adding that Zuma was aware Christians had played a significant role in both the apartheid struggle and in uplifting society today. Commenting on Zuma's remarks about corporal punishment, Meshoe said the ANC itself had outlawed the practice.

"The ANC has led the passing of laws that prohibit parents from using corporal punishment on their children. Christianity teaches that corporal punishment is to be used on a child as a form of discipline."

Cape Town Archbishop Thabo Cecil Makgoba spoke out against Zuma's comments in support of corporal punishment.

"Consequences of corporal punishment are grave in any language, creed and colour. On this, I respectfully disagree with the president," the archbishop said in a statement.

He said while he did not know the full context in which Zuma's comments were made: "We all have a tendency, as we move on in years, to romanticise the past as utopian and without its challenges.

"Given the number of orphans and old age homes, lack of proper sanitation, poor education provision, death on our roads at this critical period for Christians, we need as Christ commanded, to house these orphans as we did of old.

"We need to care for our elderly better as it was done of old."

SACC

The SA Council of Churches (SACC) said: "We are just taken aback. We are shocked and we don't understand.

"We do not understand why the president, whom we have always counted as one amongst us Christians, would find the Christian faith to be so hopeless with regard to building humanity," SACC general secretary reverend Mautji Pataki said.

Meanwhile, civil rights group AfriForum said it planned to discuss Zuma's "extremely insensitive" comments with the government and African National Congress.

Co-founder of the International Orphan Network website, Sean Grant, said the past was less important than the country's present situation.

"While there may have not been these institutions in the past, certainly we see that the current culture in South Africa is abandonment and negligence.

"If it weren't for religious groups and non-profit organisations, there would be far more lack of care, if not dying," he said.

Comments
  • melanie.askeland - 2011-12-21 20:27

    A lot of truth and some over-simplification. Modern suburbs are not like villages where everyone helps raise children. People move in and out as the demands of work move them around. It is always good to look at our past to see what is still good and relevant to our current situation.

      Graziella - 2011-12-21 20:45

      Well said Melanie, it has become a favourite past time for a certain population group on these threads to mock, attack or slate anything uttered by Zuma (fair enough). These threads have also become a favourite place to slander Zuma, the ANC and Africans in particular.

      mike.clery - 2011-12-21 20:57

      @Ibhubesi No backpedaling on this. If he's quoted correctly (and that hasn't been disputed) then he SAID "Those were times that the religious people refer to as dark days, but we know that, during those times, there were no orphans or old age homes. Christianity has brought along these things." That is a completely unambiguous statement that Christianity is responsible for the destruction of an earlier culture that he idealises as looking after old people and orphans. That's an absurdly simplistic attempt to attribute a world-wide social issue to a single cause, and Zuma must take responsibility for making it.

      Tom - 2011-12-21 21:13

      I am not religious but the ANC can't campaign in the churches (telling the congregation they wont go to heaven if don't vote ANC) and then say Africans were better off before religion was introduced. I can however see how religion clashes with Zuma's favourite pass times of adultery and theft.

      Mike - 2011-12-21 21:36

      @All: Question ..... 1. This the same bloke who said the anc will rule until Jesus comes? 2. Now he blames Jesus for his stupidity? 3. There "were no orphans" as probably no-one knew who was who's offspring (example set by our dear prezzi) 4. No old age homes cause there were no old aged? Chased into the bush? For goodness sake, either blame the West or embrace them! Can't do both at the same time! And "if" the anc has the biggest "think-tank"? Probably because we have the most ministers per tax-payer than any other country?! JZ, I just get the feeling the last 6 months you try all to get out of this one! And then you can live forever on your salary and 30plus kids without lifting a finger!

      Hermann - 2011-12-21 21:37

      @Ibhubesi. Bugger all religions pal including the spirits and lands of the forefathers then look at Africa and ask yourself the simple question "where has Africa, no the Africans, lost the plot?" The answer is they never had a plot. So get real and ignore the apologists and start motivating.

      Phuti - 2011-12-21 21:52

      Whites r not trying to b blacks but blacks try to b whites all the time;wht is tht.Blacks fake whites accent;some r even proud when their kids cannot speak the home languages properly.

      John - 2011-12-21 22:17

      Zuma has got it backwards: It is because black chiefs or vip's like the ANC members of parliament, DO NOT keep their traditions, that orphanages have to take in vast numbers of children while ANC municipal politicians go on expensive tours to Brazil...and the PEOPLE starve and die.

      Graziella - 2011-12-21 22:23

      @HermannH Ignorance of the History one does not know is one thing, and forgivable. Denying History when indeed one knows full well the sequence of events is another.

      Omnivore - 2011-12-22 00:04

      @Graziella -- "...it has become a favourite past time for a certain population group..." It is unfair to implicate an entire "population group" in anything. Population groups consist of individuals who do not, by virtue of shared history, culture or other physical traits, share a single set of opinions or attitudes. I assure you, the population group in question is not using these forums to advance some collective political or racial agenda. It is unfortunate that some unpleasant individuals, many belonging to the population group in question, but also to all of the others, do use these forums to spew all sorts of ignorant and bigoted vitriol. This embarrasses and saddens many of their fellow population group members. Fortunately, while we cannot choose our population groups, we can choose what kind of human beings we want to be.

      Piet - 2011-12-22 06:32

      Being to Rwanda lately? Clearly not, they slaughtered this so called support structure. Christians did not do that

      Hendrik - 2011-12-22 08:13

      Being a white Christian, but also always trying to understand the other angle, I can see what was meant by the initial statement, albeit after some highlighting and explanation. And this to me begs the real question: why do we get so many "statements" and "comments" that are well-meant and well-thought-through, but then delivered half? I doubt if the Prez would have been chased from his podium if he took but 30 seconds more to highlight what he meant - it would have made the world's difference, and instead of attracting blind agitation, could have set some interresting thought processes in motion. I am sensing a public speaking spirit of teasing, daring, and sometimes even outright provocation on the part of those who hold office, and I fail to detect or appreciate any reason for it.

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-22 22:18

      @Ibhubesi, isn't it the "witch doctors" that say that you can be cured of AIDS if you have sex with a virgin, hence the rapes of children? Was Africa better off before Christianity? Well, that can be debated ad nauseum. However, Christianity did not bring old age homes and orphanages. A simple Bible knowledge will show that. Maybe old age homes have become preavlent due to the children (not defined by age) of mothers and fathers being killed in SA, therefore they have no one to look after in their old age? Maybe there are so many orphanages due to children's parents dying of AIDS or being murdered? What is the government doing about crime and AIDS? Answer these questions before slinging the mud at Christians.

  • bernpm - 2011-12-21 20:32

    Mixing politics, religion, legislation, history, culture, ubuntu and apartheid in one speech shows a confused mind. Mixing sign language with cartoon language and drive all deaf people in the same corner as Malema, does not create confidence in our famous "leaders"

      alansmartSnr - 2011-12-21 21:26

      @ bernpm.. Wonder in which circus our "Honerable " illiterate Mr.Zuma did his apprenticeship cos I have never read such a lot of bullsh#$t from such a prominent person. As for his spokesman Mac Maharaj, he carries no more credibility since he has also been involved as passenger of the gravy train. Hopefully some Christians might wake up now and put their crosses on the right spot.

      craigtjames - 2011-12-21 21:55

      I agree with you and see a lot of confusion in the articles as well. Motshekga said a distinction needed to be drawn between "Christianity as a faith" and "nefarious missionary activities, which have brought sufferings upon our people". It was a "historical fact" that certain missionary "enterprises" came to South Africa under the guise of Christianity to aid colonialism. Then what is their point - Christianity, or the guise of Christianity? I think they need to clarify themselves.

  • moby.quest - 2011-12-21 20:34

    Yeah sure, now they wanna release statement upon statement to RECTIFY the initial statement! I must, however, agree with Kenneth Meshoe. Some valid points there!

  • bernpm - 2011-12-21 20:34

    "Zuma's comments perfectly sound......" Who's ass are you creeping???

  • mario - 2011-12-21 20:38

    100 years ago the people all over the world lived like that. not only in South Africa. but times changed.and it will never be the same.

      maseratifittipaldi - 2011-12-21 22:27

      Goody Mario. Nail on the head. Zuma just says these things to keep Jesus away a bit longer. Remember the ANC only wants to rule till Jesus comes again. The ANC is afraid people will become educated before Jesus comes. They want to keep them uneducated. Doing things the old way. Like serving the King. This democracy thing is so un-African. It corrupts. In the old days only the King was allowed to steal. Now this Democracy taught everyone to steal. Many other things also changed from the old way of doing things. The use of fossil fuels, globalization,travelling in vehicles,flying through the sky,communicating by satellite,watching what is happening on the other side of the world on TV, learning, clothing fashion, medicine, rule of law, manufacturing, fighting...so many things different now to how it was done then.

      Adam - 2011-12-21 22:54

      I have put down Animal Farm for a moment and drawing parallels between the Prez's wierd speach and the rantings of Enoch Powell.

  • willem.wulfse - 2011-12-21 20:40

    Always the white washers on the behalf of the 'Dear leader' (Excuse the pun)

  • Johan Britz - 2011-12-21 20:43

    Um no, stacks of mostly black kids are parentless because 1) Their parents pump out countless kids they have no intention of raising and 2) From faking around like rabbits, most "parents" die of AIDS. And who ends up organising fundraisers and who looks after those kids? The Christians. And now this? Unbelievable.

  • Had - 2011-12-21 20:44

    "While African culture has since time immemorial taught people to care for each other, embrace and show kindness to one another, the advent of Western way of living condoned [a] 'each man for himself' principle. Why don't JZ and his cronies practice what they preach then. Start redistributing their ill gotten gains to worthy causes instead of feathering their own nests.

  • George - 2011-12-21 20:51

    I do not see anything wrong with showerhead's statement. The problem with society and the imperialist media is that showerhead is easy to ridicule because he hardly make an effort to assert his authority. I guess he rightfully does not entertain insignificant attention seeking gestures. I applaud him for soldiering on even when people find solace in unecessary point scoring. SA is lucky not to have a dictator but we will soon learn that we had good presidents when a dictator finally gets a grip of the presidency. The likes of Casswell mathale and juju will destroy our hard fought democracy.

  • Atholl - 2011-12-21 20:54

    Italian politicians (Berlusconi) did the same to divide and drive Southern Italy into an abyss of evil .. .. in order to benefit from the confused public .. who only recently woke up to the fact they they have destroyed three generations of pristine Italian culture, architecture, music, art, fashion, food etc. A president who swears an oath to the constitution should know that freedom of speech prohibits speech that invokes hatred toward any religion ... ... so there is a clear pattern from the HEATH ens : ... divide by Race, Religion Ethnicity and Gender .... then destroy ... then rule .... til Jesus comes ??

      George - 2011-12-21 21:05

      Obviously showerhead's statement was taken out of context. Many of us understand perfectly where he is coming from. As a Christian, I would not think that he was directly insulting Christians. Only idiots would want to sensationalize the whole thing.

      MaxOdin.SA - 2011-12-22 01:41

      @george I think the question here is what are you first. A christian first? Does your culture come first? Does your political affiliation come first? That would be your context i.e. paradigm I am a christian first and the rest follows so yes what JZ said is offensive. Add what he said to the common rhetoric and threats of ancestors damning you for not voting anc and likening themselves to jesus then well do you see where this is heading? Politicians should know better than to use religion to manipulate the people. Those of us who see through it find it offensive.

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-22 22:29

      Maxodin, if you are a Christian first, the other two questions do not even matter. Culture and political affiliations are 'worldy' thiings. "Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him." 1 John2:15).

  • gerritvb - 2011-12-21 21:01

    I think he might just be preparing the nation for the birth of another child he fathered out of wedlock..........

  • spartanx93 - 2011-12-21 21:03

    mr. zooma. remember before the "colonialists" arrived to your dear african shores bringing a number of faiths, christianity, islam, hunduism and what not. Your fellow country men had their own religions of voodooism, Akan, Odinani, Serer. So don't blame others cause your people chose to accept other faiths. there would be orphans regardless of christianity or not, as your people procreate like there is no tomorrow!!

      George - 2011-12-21 21:12

      Please do not smoke alone. Share idiot.

  • Ben - 2011-12-21 21:07

    Maybe this was just done to deviate attention from real urgent matters that need to be discussed. I am sure that voters will be more interested to know where the money will be found to pay for old age homes and orphanages. Some people in government need the money for expensive cars, expensive trips and hotels as well as the self-help scheme which some nasty people call corruption, which is now so popular amongst our dear government officials.

  • Benjamin - 2011-12-21 21:11

    who is advising zuma to make statements like this?

  • Comrade - 2011-12-21 21:16

    What do we expect from the DEVIL

  • kevlam4 - 2011-12-21 21:22

    "While African culture has since time immemorial taught people to care for each other, embrace and show kindness to one another, the advent of Western way of living condoned [a] 'each man for himself'???? Indeed Mr.Maharaj? So "Leaders" like Cetswayo (sic) and the Murderous Zulu kings were as the result of "nefarious missionary activities, which have brought sufferings upon our people". Were they not "Every man for Himself"? Your comments do not impress AT ALL!!

  • Dikeledi Maruatona - 2011-12-21 21:23

    At this stage,it doesn't matter at all.The statement was said whether intentionally or unintetional it is out and it doesn't have to be justified.However,I find it very strange that Pres Zuma has been landing his feet in hot water lately.First with the Simelane unconstitutional placement and now unchecked statements that are very questionable.I just wonder if the motive is to deliberately allow this mistakes to render him unworthy to govern?It is a duty of his advisors to ensure that whatever presentations he has to deliver is sound and clear without controversy.Anyway justification of his speech at this stage is detrimental to his reputation and deepens suspicion on his leadership.It further make it sound like the President didn't know what he was talking about.however,his facts are vivid and to the point the only concern is his view on christianity.

      MaxOdin.SA - 2011-12-22 01:44

      I can't remember who it was but one of the bigwigs said all speeches and statements made by ANC officials are checked by the ANC before public delivery, even if it is an opinion.

  • spartanx93 - 2011-12-21 21:24

    All zooma is trying to do is shift blame from his government and people onto the churches.

      spartanx93 - 2011-12-21 21:26

      17 years of ANC failures & centuries of african failure.

      Bongani - 2011-12-21 21:39

      Looking at your punctuation, I'm sure you are a massive success yourself. As successful as the Nationalist Government from 1961 till 1994.

      spartanx93 - 2011-12-21 21:50

      I would say that I'm pretty successful. Besides, I'm not trying to win any brownie points with punctuation!

      Piet - 2011-12-22 06:39

      Ibuhbisi. If you cannot attack the argument attack the person, so African of you...

  • Harry Meyerowitz - 2011-12-21 21:33

    Spin spin spin!

  • Robert - 2011-12-21 21:46

    Mr Zuma - You are a philistine, sir! Stop blaming religion for your's and your "peoples" cock-ups and inadequacies - you are starting to sound like Hitler who blamed the Jews for Germany's "troubles?

  • humphrey.s.mbothwe - 2011-12-21 21:48

    I listened to President Zuma comment on SABC 1, the president was speaking in isiZulu. Its either he was translated by someone who doesn't know and understand isiZulu very well or it's just another media subliminal propaganda. In isiZulu there are izisho and izaga (figure of speech in English) for instead in English if someone say he's starving he doesn't mean that in fact is dying of hunger, but that he's very hungry and when joking will say I'm pulling your leg. This translation era is evident on SABC 1 sitcom called Emzini wezinsizwa where the worker went on wage strike and hired a translator to translate for them to their employer. the worker said "silambile singadla abafazi bethu" the translator told the employer that they say they are hungry they can eat their wives, whereas the were say they are hungry. The workers also said "sifuna imali yomhlalaphansi" the translator said they say they want sitting down money whilst the workers were saying they want pension fund. Hope as we learnt to know and understand English, other races will also learn and understand African languages to avoid this kind of contusion.

      humphrey.s.mbothwe - 2011-12-21 21:56

      I apologise to my typing era, I mean to avoid this kind of confusion.

      AyGeeWils - 2011-12-21 22:06

      Well done Sbusiso for your short expose' - problem is that Zuma went a lot further than just figures of speach. While I too have no use for organised religion in any guise, I do hold to the central tennets and teachings of the Gospels - and condering them - he is miles from the truth about what Messiah taught about these matters - In fact Ubuntu is predated by many hundreds of years within the founding massage of the gospels - White missionaries came to these shores 1700 odd years after these founding principles were writen and were representing their various denominations rather than the original message. Zuma may have a point - but he has spoken without knowledge or bothering to get his history straight.

      Vince.York - 2011-12-27 09:31

      I have to agree in some degree but then I also look at the devastating effect of officiating 14 barbed forked tongues in order NOT TO UNIFY A NATION as SA has done, compared to seemingly every other nation in the world where a single unifying language is used officially to avoid exactly all this confusion. The now long term undermining of every democratic process and bastion and separation of powers has been most effective by fast licking forked tongues with deliberate barbs of confusion on them these past 15-20 years and possibly longer. Why not transform the nation and make the Nguni language isiZulu the sole official language and have done with all this double talk and political lying? At least then we can then spend 'a week' just wrapping our mouths around a numerical number of let's say "R140TRILLION" - - - - - - wasted on the hospital/medical fiasco, taxi non-industry and traditional RDP houses permanently in a state of collapse and other nanny grants to ensure no-one works or trades formally which pursuits incidentally are possibly untouched by those loathed Christian hands - - not to make full detailed mention of destroyed Power Turbines and sold out raw material mines to the far east. Maybe soon we can even wrap the inconvenient Constitution away in a black gown and veil together with the judiciary and prosecuting and policing bodies as well buried on top of the corpse of a free media, as the colonization of Africa by Islam, India and China is completed violently.

  • Phuti - 2011-12-21 21:48

    Most blacks when they claim to be educated they wud b speaking English in a funny accent wht a shame.I have never seen a white person residing in a township but u c many stupit blacks going to white suburbs wher a practice of culture is looked down upon.wht a shame S.A unless blacks embrace culture in all spheres we r doomed.show me anything tht was invented in Africa.which craft maybe

  • Joseph - 2011-12-21 21:50

    The world is at war because of difference in religious beliefs,Christians do not approve the existance of islamic to such an extent that they force change of governmants in the musilam world with an aim of influencing them in accepting christianity.In other words christians want to remote control the practice of other religions in the world.

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-22 22:50

      The "world is at war"? To the shelters, to the shelters. Grow up man. There is war in several regions around the world. There is also civil uprisings in some countries. The world is not at war. If it was it would pale into insignificance WWI and WWII.

  • MaxOdin.SA - 2011-12-21 21:52

    What i find funny is how christianity is referred to as a western religion. Whether you believe or not christianity, judaism and islam all stem from North east Africa and the middle east. Sure the messanger may have been westerners or british (imperialists or colonisers) but it's actually and north east African/middle eastern religion. I think that people misuse the word African too often.

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-22 22:51

      Yes, hence the fighting for control of Jerusalem.

  • Max - 2011-12-21 22:03

    Hopefully, this will open the eyes of every Christian to fight against any further kind of integration attempt like for example the Belhar lie. It is time to realise that these people are not on the side of Christianity and are therefore the enemy and must be treated as such.

  • Nombulelo Zenani - 2011-12-21 22:10

    The Lord show mercy even to the blind

  • Sithulile Ngwevela - 2011-12-21 22:12

    Because Malema is quiet for now, Mr Zuma has decided to once again take his crown as the dumbest person to ever lead South Africa...May God be with him

  • Azande - 2011-12-21 22:13

    When you have made a "stupid comment", it is advisable that you swallow your pride and come out clean about it. there is nothing idiotic more than wasting people's time justifying "stupid comment" unless you think the other people are also idiots. If Zuma was referring to Colonialism, why speak in parables. These guys really think all people are idiots.

      Bongani - 2011-12-22 00:11

      Give him a break Azande. For once he came up for us in a constructive manner. We were who we were before Christianity was brought here. That is the part of myself as an African that I am the proudest of. I have evolved to be able to decide for myself what an African is and not what the white man thinks an African should be.

      Heinrich - 2011-12-22 13:07

      Now you've got me confused, Ibhubesi. I am a white man born in Africa and I have lived here longer than you, so I am more African than you. Unless you measure the the "Africanness" of "White Manness" by the level of brainwashing undergone or dogma succumbed to.

  • Alva - 2011-12-21 22:14

    "Irresponsible journalism will always find a way to mislead". Bollox! Zuma, you are a public figure and the President, nog al! Get it right for goodness sakes! Your spin doctor and the entire ANC have to keep mopping up behind you! Rather just STFU!

  • Dries - 2011-12-21 22:18

    I agree with Zuma's statement. In this country of ours we never have had fighting/war because of religion and let us keep it that way. He is also right in his statement that people use to look after their elderly and children without churches interfering. I have a big problem with the fact that religion lately, is driven by business principles rather than commumity service. Thank you Prez, you move up a few steps on my personal respect for you.

  • Alva - 2011-12-21 22:20

    Zuma quote-"I can't be diplomatic about this. It's a fact". For once the man is honest. He can't be diplomatic about anything because his foot is constantly in his mouth!

  • Tshivhombela Fhatuwani - 2011-12-21 22:45

    It hurts to see people use the culture they can't interpret to fight their battles. What is it that we have is ours now? You must be very practical about orphanages as there are many factors that cause the opening of these orphanages. eg. HIV-Aids and violence related deaths. Culture moves with time, that is why you no longer wear loin cloth but you dress in Italian suites, you no longer drind umtomboti but you drink over 18 yrs Scotch whisky, you no longer ride ox carts and you drive German machines. I am not surprised by the utterances of a man who always use culture for selfish reasons. He once said in his culture one cannot sexually arouse a woman and never sleep with her. He continued to marry endlessly and also impregnate out of his polygamous wedlock and he continued to use culture as an assylum fro his deeds. How many orphans and impoverished families in SA and are neglected by the very same tenderpreneurs who claim to be familiar with African culture. A couple of weeks ago we read about two kids who died on their way to pick crumbs from dumping area and where were these culturally conscious Africans? Is corruption also part of your culture?

  • robbieyahu - 2011-12-21 23:04

    can you believe it !!! i luv jacob zuma's comment !!! the president is right !!! christianity is EVIL ...religion has caused the deaths of millions !!!!!! we need to flee from these evil churches and from the liar pastors priests and popes and start loving each other period !!!! peace

      Bongani - 2011-12-22 00:06

      A Thousand Thumbs Up for you Robbie!

      jack.oosthuysen - 2011-12-22 00:43

      30 000 types of congegrations in the name of religion. Robbie I love your boldness.

      Piet - 2011-12-22 06:41

      Aaag the Atheists again...yawn. Nothing original coming yet?

      jack.oosthuysen - 2011-12-22 11:04

      Piet,read Matt 15v 6-9.

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-22 23:13

      Hey Robbie, and how many deaths has the ANC caused by doing nothing about AIDS? 1,000 a day die, that is 365,000 per year or 6.2million. All this because they refuse to tell the people that HIV/AIDS is preventable. They would rather tell the people the can be "cured" with ARV's of which they get a taxes from for the cost (VAT) and the company taxes of the providers in SA. Then there is the deaths through crime. Conservatively 19,000 per year (those are the ones the police know about). That is another 3.25million. So nearly 10 million conservatively have died just in SA though government ineptness. There are many more - road accidents, medicine, etc. So, how many of thos "evil churches" killed? BTW, they are Christendon not Christian, and will go the same way of the governments at the Great Tribulation.

  • Lebza Dikgetsi - 2011-12-22 01:06

    Why should I embrace a foreign culture over my native culture

      Piet - 2011-12-22 06:42

      Then stop trying to be white

      Johan Britz - 2011-12-22 08:09

      For the same reason you're embracing that foreign computer and not your native smoke signals. Its better.

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-22 23:14

      Because you want a BMW like Malema.

  • George - 2011-12-22 05:51

    No matter how hard he tries, people will always write what they want to hear not what he said or meant. Today's media is not driven by fair and just reporting but greed. A week does not go by in SA without reading an apology for poor or misleading reporting. What is worrying is that the majority of the errors are committed by black journalist trying to impress their white bosses.

  • Piet - 2011-12-22 06:37

    Zuma is enticing a holy war. Hands off my Christ!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Tony - 2011-12-22 14:56

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ineptocracy Just take a look - it is the ANC throoooo and throo.

  • hugohann - 2011-12-27 06:41

    Mr Zuma (and ANC). You may try to fool us. But there is Someone you can not fool. He sees right through you - who you really are. Next time you guys jump to be blessed in a church - remeber what you said in this statment. P.S. We are not fools. We do not need to the media to mislead us. We all HEARD what you said. you cannot worship 2 gods. So you must decide which one?

  • Gail - 2011-12-27 09:25

    As a human being born in Africa, I actually understand what Zuma is trying to say here and in point of fact agree with much of it. He is not really condemning CHristianity but how Christianity has been used by mankind to justify certain things when and where it suits them. We condemn abortion and murder and yet we advocate the death sentence and spend a fortune on IVF and prolonging the life of people with terminal diseases. Religion throughout history has always aligned itself with and supported the powers in ascendance regardless of the admonitions in the Bible which may actually not support them. It condones what is in its own interests and disregards such fundamentals as respect your neighbour and turn the other cheek. Perhaps we should not blame religion per se for these ills but man himself who claims to believe in a particular religion and also claims exclusivity to who may be allowed to be a believer and reinterprets it to suit their particular ends. This reinterpretation has been applied to anyone who doesn't support the First world or Northern Hemisphere view. Thee has been conflict amongst men since the beginning of time just as there has been prostitution and money lending and slavery and abuse of women and anyone perceived to be different. By applying religious motives backed by State apparatus a particular wa of life was destroyed in a continent which had developed its own methods of dealing with life on this continent.

  • Mboneni - 2011-12-27 10:14

    The ANC has become so brainles that it can no longer stand for everybody ,mathole and maharaj are not doing the ANC any good by trying to defend the indefensible as the organisation,the ANc should have apologised for stupid remarks by JZ after all he is an opologatic president

  • Phumlani - 2012-01-02 13:42

    I lived with my Grandfather till he was 108 years old and my family never thought of sending him to the Old Age home.Noooo noooo noooo not my grandfather.Some ppl count years 4 their parents or grandparents.Its not Goodooo.

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