News24

John Paul II's blood to be church relic

2011-01-17 20:31

Warsaw - An official says a vial containing the blood of Pope John Paul II will be installed as a relic in a Polish church soon after his beatification.

Piotr Sionko, the spokesperson for the John Paul II Centre, says the vial will be built into the altar of a church in Krakow that is opening in May.

Sionko said on Monday the idea came from Cardinal Stanislaw Dziwisz, the archbishop of Krakow and the longtime friend and secretary of the late Polish pontiff.

Many Catholic Poles are rejoicing over Pope Benedict XVI's announcement last week that he will beatify John Paul on May 1.

Sionko said the blood was drawn for medical tests at Rome's Gemelli Polyclinic shortly before John Paul's death on April 2 2005, and has been in Dziwisz's care.

Comments
  • ShaunSwindon@24.com - 2011-01-17 21:18

    Idol worship much? Is that not against what God actually wanted?

  • Howzitekse - 2011-01-17 21:52

    SICK.

  • Carl Muller - 2011-01-17 21:54

    Yes, worship another idol!

  • Darwin Fan - 2011-01-17 21:56

    What a SCAM Horus is the sun god of egypt. Horus was born on December 25th Horus was also born of a virgin. In the story of Horus, he was born of the star in the east, and was adorned by three kings. Horus was a teacher at 12 years old and was baptized when he was 30, to begin his ministry. Horus had 12 disciples who he travelled about with healing the sick, and walking on water. He was called the lamb of god, the good shepard, yaddda yadda Horus was also crucified, buried for Three Days and then Ressurected. Does this ring a bell?

      tomasz - 2011-01-17 23:05

      http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.html

      stuart.steedman - 2011-01-17 23:35

      And don't even get me started on the similarities between Jesus and Mithras: ) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense. 2) Mithra was born on December 25 "…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”. 3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac. 4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb. 5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood. 6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length). Personally, I think Christianity as a religion is like the annoying kid in school who kept copying answers from you in tests. Very little of Christianity is original...

      Darwin Fan - 2011-01-17 23:43

      @tomasz Please give me better facts than some religious site. It's like police asking a scamster whether he's a scamster

      Susannomore - 2011-01-18 06:34

      @stuart.steedman - and your point is?

      John - 2011-01-18 07:59

      The catholic church is nothing more than a sun cult. Biggest scam ever invented in the name of religion.

      oxygen - 2011-01-18 08:14

      The bells ring - but the people have parsley in their ears.

      thabiso.marumo - 2011-01-18 08:17

      No matter what you say to christian people they choose to ignore what ever argument presented to them, to counter your argument they always qoute the bible and tell you it's the truth.

      JohannV - 2011-01-18 08:42

      Maybe change your name to Dawkins Fan? Delude yourself much?

      Noir - 2011-01-18 10:34

      Wow, someont has been watching Zeitgeist, check your facts again, a lot of disinformation in that dvd of yours!!

      tomasz - 2011-01-18 10:44

      @stuart.steedman: http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusMithra.html

  • Susannomore - 2011-01-18 06:34

    What a bunch of hypocrites. Thou shall not worship false idols?!?

  • goyougoodthing - 2011-01-18 07:05

    Just plain weird. Now religion can do whatever it pleases but here they go into some very very odd territory which seems to go against a lot of their teachings. I'm not atheist, but I'm not religions either and I am trying not to judge but from what I know, this practice is super odd. Especially beautifying a guy who sold deadly chemicals to the Nazis. Forrest Gump said: Stupid is as stupid does.

  • ballhead - 2011-01-18 07:22

    one big scam, "the church" will really do anything to remain relevant...and people still fall for this nonsense...stupid, stupid, stupid...

  • JohannV - 2011-01-18 08:37

    Typical RC. As if they don't have enough pagan rituals / relics / symbols! And they're deluding hundreds of millions who could have been Christians.

  • JohannV - 2011-01-18 08:44

    I would like to personally thank all the atheists / Dawkins puppets / satanists who spread their "irrefutable proof" that God / Jesus never existed. In my search to reject this, I move ever close to God and His glory. You guys are saving more souls than organized religion ever could! Thanks so much and God bless you all!

      JCK - 2011-01-18 09:06

      Dear Johann, No informed atheist / agnostic should have a reason or motive to deny that the historical Jesus existed. However, god, angels, a naked rib-woman, a talking snake and the tooth fairie is another story... If a HEARSAY story reach you that I am the son of Zeus, would you believe it? Why not Johann? Think carefully before you answer. "When a lot of people believe in the existence of an unprovable, unobservable and hearsay entity we call it religion; When only a select few believe it, we call it superstition cult or culture; When very few or an individual believe it, we call it a delusion, madness or evil." As far as I can establish, your religion is based on: 1) hearsay stories, in turn based on 2) interpretations of 3) the myths of 4) a primitive bronze-age tribe of goat herders It is about a cosmic Jew (who was his own father) can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a naked rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. How gullible must you be to believe the hearsay c…p - and then have the guts to comment on this article Johann?

      JohannV - 2011-01-18 09:19

      Hardly any of this applies to any pre-Christian version of the Horus story. There are several birthdates assigned to Horus, one of which is 12/25 (though it's unclear whether this date was applied to Horus in pre-Christian times). However, it hardly matters, since Jesus was almost certainly not born on 12/25. That date was assigned long after Jesus' time, with no evidence that it corresponds to Jesus' actual birthdate. There's about a 1 in 365 chance of it being correct (probably less, actually, since warmer weather is suggested). And, yes, Horus did perform miracles, though none that would correspond to Jesus' miracles. No walking on water, resurrecting dead people, water into wine, etc. Horus was not born of a virgin, had no star in the east, wasn't adored by 3 kings, wasn't a teacher at age 12, was never baptized, did not begin his ministry at age 30, didn't have 12 disciples, was never called "The Lamb of God" or "The Light", wasn't crucified, wasn't dead for three days, and was never resurrected.

      JohannV - 2011-01-18 09:20

      Other than performing miracles (though, again, they don't correspond to Jesus'), these are all false. Mithra was not born of a virgin, wasn't born on 12/25, didn't have 12 disciples, wasn't dead for 3 days, wasn't resurrected, wasn't called "The Truth" or "The Light", and wasn't worshipped on Sunday prior to Jesus' time.

      JCK - 2011-01-18 10:12

      OK Johann, so get your facts right before you comment: a) You say we "want to disprove that Jesus exited". We have no basis or motive to do that. b) That we are trying to "spread their irrefutable proof that God never existed". No-one, including atheists can prove or disprove anything that is 100% unobservable / undetectable and that exists on the imaginary level based on HEARSAY only. We are not idiots. c) Atheists are also not Satanists. Satan and the Tooth Fairy are also products of your imagination If you have any FACTUAL info to the contrary, it is your duty to share it with us and mankind in general. And Johann, you might be in for BIG surprise to find out one day that you backed the wrong god. There are some 2500 gods that mankind invented. Thor might moer you with his hammer one day because you followed the “false Christian religions”. Beware…

      callan.lombaard - 2011-02-04 14:38

      Johann I was a Christian and it was things like this that drove me from the church and into the warm embrace of the Gods my ancestors worshipped. I am now a Pagan walking the path of Norse Mythology. The religion is flawed, as are many religions, and there are way too many people who profess to be "christians" who are unfaithful to their partners, worship idols(which is what is being done here) and go completely against the ten commandments that your God gave you to live by. The way I see it, your God is sitting on his white fluffy cloud bawling his eyes out at the way you have all twisted his word. So go ahead and play us down by building yourself up, you stand before your God and tell him how you lived your life and suffer eternal damnation, while I stand before mine telling him how I fought with passion to bring justice to those that deserved it and lived by the values set by him for me

  • JohannV - 2011-01-18 09:42

    JCK, I have read comments like yours thousands of times on the internet. You forgot a few insults: mythical sky-daddy, Jewish zombie magician... Don't slip up, now, you guys need to stand fast in your unbelief! Make Dawkins proud! You see, I pity you if you cannot accept and experience the Divine Presence, Greatness, Goodness and Love of the One and Only God. But I can't force you to believe and I don't intend to - just as you can't force me NOT to believe. And it's not because of the way I was raised or "brainwashed"; I was just blessed enough to really get to know Him and accept Him in my life. Blessings to you!

      JCK - 2011-01-18 10:17

      OK Johann, so get your facts right before you comment: a) You say we "want to disprove that Jesus exited". We have no basis or motive to do that. b) That we are trying to "spread their irrefutable proof that God never existed". No-one, including atheists can prove or disprove anything that is 100% unobservable / undetectable and that exists on the imaginary level based on HEARSAY only. We are not idiots. c) Atheists are also not Satanists. Satan and the Tooth Fairy are also products of your imagination If you have any FACTUAL info to the contrary, it is your duty to share it with us and mankind in general. And Johann, you might be in for BIG surprise to find out one day that you backed the wrong god. There are some 2500 gods that mankind invented. Thor might moer you with his hammer one day because you followed the “false Christian religions”. Beware…

      JohannV - 2011-01-18 10:41

      JCK, I think you need to go and study a bit more about atheism before you attack Christianity. While you're at it, take a look at Anton La Vey. I did not say atheists were satanists - read my post again. The reason why you guys cannot disprove God, is because He is God, totally outside our realm of understanding. He is beyond science - by the same token you cannot scientifically prove to me the concept of love, sorrow or hatred. After all, He created science, too! As for the thousands of other gods: yes, they were invented by mankind. God is the one and only true God and by the time you find the "proof" you so need, it will be too late for you. My religion is the only one that had more than 80% of its prophecies come true 100%, and there's still more to come. Proof enough if you were really looking! That's why I keep saying: "God bless you, even though you don't believe in Him. Because he sure believes in YOU." Take care and go do some studying.

      JCK - 2011-01-18 11:01

      Johann, well yes... your almighty god must be an impressive super duper complex dude. Even more impressive is that this ULTRA complex dude MUST have created himself. Alternatively he fell out of thin air. POOOF! Absolutely wonderful heh? He is also the universe's unbeaten super duper hide and seek champion. The best ever! The prophecies that supposedly came true - that you talk about: You cannot use the Bible to prove the Bible. Or use the bible to prove the god of the Bible. For the same reason you cannot use Harry Potter books to prove that Hogwards was a real school. The prophecies that did not come true e.g. "Jesus will return in our life time" and many, many others: er.. well.. that has to be "read in context" or interpret differently... heh?

      Barry M - 2011-01-18 14:50

      JohannV - I have spent many hours pondering this religion bullsh!t and have come to the conclusion that religion exists solely to control the weak-minded and to turn them upside-down in order to empty their rather shallow pockets, religion is after all, big business. Anyone who claims they are a Christian is incapable of thinking for themselves and are searching for some sort of spiritual crutch, the same applies to Muslim, Buddhist and any and all other religions. You are probably the kind of person that believes that life exists solely on planet earth. I have news for you sunshine, there are millions upon millions of inhabited planets out there to choose from and the good news is that we will never get to reach them, colonise them and destroy them as we are destroying this one. The fact of the matter is that sooner or later this one will cease to exist and we as humankind will disappear! I must say I take my hat off to the church for ripping you off, I have a grudging respect for them same as I have for Lady Gaga – she has found a recipe for fleecing simple minded fools too.

  • LADYD - 2011-01-18 09:42

    AMAZING HOW THESE PEOPLE DO THINGS IN THE NAME OF GOD,Then worship a dead man idolworshiping indeed.to show that they are confused the man was alive and now he is dead flesh and blood

  • ballhead - 2011-01-18 09:47

    @JCK I dont believe I have ever heard a more apt description of the basis of Christian faith :-)

  • JohannV - 2011-01-18 09:54

    Look at this list of comparisons between Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy: 1. Both Lincoln and Kennedy were elected to Congress in '46 (1846 in Lincoln's case, 1946 in Kennedy's). Both became President in '60. 2. Both had lazy eye muscles which would cause one eye to wander. 3. Both had been skippers on boats (Lincoln on the Mississippi river boat 'Talisman' and Kennedy on the PT-109) 4. Both were the second sons in their families. Each lost a sister to death before becoming President. Both married 24-year-old brunettes who had been previously engaged to other men, and who spoke French fluently. 5. Both had a child die while living in the White House. 6. Both were related to U.S. Senators, U.S. Attorney Generals who graduated from Harvard, and ambassadors to the Court of St. James. 7. Both were acquaintances of a man named Adlai E. Stevenson who ran for either Vice-President or President, a doctor named Charles Taft and a man named William Graham. 8. Both were advised not to go to the place where they died. 9. Both Lincoln's theater box and Kennedy's car were altered for their benefit (Lincoln's theater box had a partition removed to accomodate his party, Kennedy's car had a raised rear seat) 10. Both were slain on a Friday before a major Holiday (Lincoln on the Friday before Easter, Kennedy on the Friday before Thanksgiving). Both were shot while sitting next to their wives and in the presence of another couple. Of the other couple, the man was also wounded by the assassin, but neither wife was wounded. 11. Both were shot from behind and in the head. Both of their wives cradled their husband's heads after they were shot. 12. John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln from inside a theater, and fled to a warehouse. Lee Harvey Oswald shot Kennedy from inside a warehouse and fled to a theater. 13. Lincoln was shot while inside the Ford theater, in box 7. Kennedy was shot while inside a Ford automobile, in car 7 in the motorcade. 14. Both were pronounced dead in places with the initials P.H. (Lincoln in the Peterson House, and Kennedy in Parkland Hospital) 15. Both of their assassins escaped, and were killed before going to trial. 16. Both of their assassins were privates in the military. Each was detained after the shooting by a policeman named Baker. Both were eventually killed by a Colt revolver. 17. Both Lincoln and Kennedy were succeeded by southern ex-senators named Johnson who were born in '08. Both Johnsons were in their mid-fifties when they took the office and both suffered from urethral stones (the only presidents to have them). Both Johnsons could have run for re-election in '68, but chose not to. By the logic of the critics, this list is absolute, undeniable proof that John F. Kennedy is a fictional character based on Abraham Lincoln.

      JCK - 2011-01-18 10:20

      En dit het wat te doen met John Pope II??

      Barry M - 2011-01-18 14:54

      Best thing is that Pope John Paul was a Polish chemist before and during the war and he supplied the Germans with Cyanide gas used to kill the Jews and Gypsies - wonder how that sits with his creator?

  • Noir - 2011-01-18 10:35

    thats a bit sick!

  • IceMan - 2011-01-18 10:52

    and the point to it is what .... ? its no longer Gods word but the Church's word and their ways (and not to forget, ways to fill their coffers). Churches today have become big business, and that is all that it is - business, with millions of gullible followers.

  • craig747nich - 2011-01-18 11:14

    There's only 1 person who's blood is worthy, and that is Jesus' blood.

      JCK - 2011-01-18 12:18

      Vampire!!

  • ramnagel - 2011-01-18 14:01

    @ JohannV: Your list of comparisons is at times dubious, spurious, irrelevant, and false. For example, Lincoln and Kennedy had VERY different political carreers. Presidential elections happens every four years so Lincoln could not have been elected during 1857-1863 except in 1860 although he was eligible. Same goes for Kennedy and the period 1957-1963. The other "coincidences" are misleadingly described at best. The death of children in the White House fails to describe how completely different the circumstances were. The Lincolns lost two children, one of which (an eleven-year old boy) died from typhoid at the end of their first year in the White House. The Kennedy's were the rare Presidential couple to be young enough to be still bearing children and Mrs. Kennedy had a miscarriage in their third year of office: the premature infant died to days later. The Lincolns had four children, all boys, only one of whom lived past his teens. The Kennedys had three children, two boys and a girl, two of whom survived well into adulthood. Booth shot Lincoln in a theatre of the type where live stage shows are held, then fled across state lines before being trapped and killed in a tobacco shed a few days later. Oswald shot Kennedy from (not "in") a textbook warehouse, then remained in Dallas and was caught and taken alive in a movie theater a little over an hour later.

  • ramnagel - 2011-01-18 14:03

    @JohannV: Most of this list is irrelevant. Most assassins escape and then are killed during apphrension later, as Booth was. Since both Presidents were shot from behind, the head shot was the only choice. Lazy eye? Not relevant. Lazy eyes are too common. Mrs. Kennedy did not cradle her husband's head after being shot: she exited the car in a panic as fast as she could. Many Presidents are advised to to go to particular functions in times of war and civil unrest. Presidents receive many death threats so it is very likely that SOMEONE will warn against their attending some function or other. Most functions are on weekends so the odds of both being shot on a Friday is WAY more likely than the plain 1 in 7 chance. Also, Lincoln was shot with a hand-gun close-up, Kennedy by a rifle from a distance. Licoln was also shot on at least one other occasion. Cars and accommodations are freqently altered to meet the needs of presidents. No big deal there. And if drawing an irrelevant parallel between a theatre and a car (Ford) why not mention Kennedy's car was actually a LINCOLN CONTINENTAL? I mean, LINCOLN! And Lincoln was assassinated, too! Gosh! The only thing is that Licoln wasn't sitting in the KENNEDY theatre when he was shot during his second assassination attempt. Oops.

      ramnagel - 2011-01-18 14:12

      "Most assassins escape and then are killed during apphrension" should read "Most assassins escape and then may be killed during apphrension".

  • ramnagel - 2011-01-18 14:04

    Also, many assassins would have received military training. In Lincoln's and Kennedy's time there were plenty of men around who had had military training. That assassins have military training is not a significant coincidence. Two dates 100 years apart is not more special or coincidental than any other number. The differences between the Johnsons far outweigh the similarities, such as that one hailed from North Carolina while the other was from Texas, or that one supported slavery while the other championed civil rights, or that one was never elected President in his own right while the other won the biggest presidential landslide in history, or that one was impeached while the other wasn't, or that one became President at the end of a war while the other became President at the beginning of a war. This list is a variation of a conspiracy theory list that was around about ten years ago. Many of its most egregious errors have been removed or modified, and others just a ridiculous added. For example, the original list described the Johnsons as both "Southerners" but since it is rather dubious to describe Andrew Johnson thus, this was changed to "southern ex-senators". So, the conspiracy list evolved and was co-opted by the evangelical crowd as a very poor attempt to defend their faith against the accusation of copy-cat religion. This whole approach is ridiculous and sad.

  • ramnagel - 2011-01-18 14:04

    @ JohannV: We know for a fact that the Jewish religion contains mythic elements adopted from earlier myths and religious traditions, particulary from after the Babylonian exile period. The myth of Noah is a prime example. Though the comparison .list between Horus and Christ is bogus in most respects, there is no doubt that the notion of divine heroes and sons of gods and women conceiving with gods was around long before Christianity came along. Let me just say, mythology evolves. To what extent this applies to the foundational claims of Christianity is outside the scope of this forum.

  • ramnagel - 2011-01-18 14:07

    See http://www.snopes.com/history/american/lincoln-kennedy.asp for a discussion of an early version of this Lincoln-Kennedy "conspiracy theory" list.

      tomasz - 2011-01-18 15:24

      ramnagel: Did you read the bottom piece of JohannV's post?

      ramnagel - 2011-01-18 16:52

      You mean, "By the logic of the critics, this list is absolute, undeniable proof that John F. Kennedy is a fictional character based on Abraham Lincoln." Yes, I did. Evangelicals use the Kennedy/Lincoln list to parody the Christ/Horus list, but in so doing they suggest that the Kennedy/Lincoln list actually holds water, and is genuinely impressive. Neither lists are. Yet the academic case can still be strongly made that Christianity "borrowed" many mythic elements from earlier mythologies and religions. While the Horus list is mostly bogus, the accusation of copycat religion still stands comfortably.

      JohannV - 2011-01-18 17:08

      Ramnagel, thanks for all your info. I admire your tenacity - we could use people like you to spread awareness and truth! lol Anyway, I'm sure you feel justified in trying to denounce a God and a religion you don't believe in - you atheists remind me of somebody who would break into the Zim central bank to steal Zim Dollars - stupefying, yet possible. As far as snopes is concerned, the couple running it are both atheists, so I would definitely question their objectivity, just as you guys question our religious sites. Where I started my comment this morning was to condemn the Catholics for their paganry. They have misled millions of people over the centuries and have done immense harm. BUT, I'm sure they fit the description of "whore of Babylon" and will go aground when the time comes. I pity you for the skewed idea you have of a wonderful God and just pray that He will judge you not too harshly when your time comes. Use your FREE WILL wisely! Blessings.

      ramnagel - 2011-01-18 18:50

      @JohannV: Clearly, you live in a fantasy land of prejudice and judgement. I have not anywhere denounced God or religion. I have pointed out weak argument, and noted that the canon of religions all contain mythological elements. As for your prejudice against atheists, you would do well to educate yourself and curb your bigotry. Unbelievers are more than capable of telling the truth, just like believers. Snopes is a great site that prides itself on objective inquiry, and busts myths, email scams, chain letters, etc., of all sorts. If you can present any actual evidence that the information there is false, please share. Denouncing every production of unbelievers is a morally reprehensible stance. The Whore of Babylon is known by all scholars to have referred to Rome around the time of 70 AD: the Jewish rebellion against Rome. It does not refer to anything in modern times except in the imagination of a few evangelical conspiracy theorists. I wonder how you imagine an atheist can have a skewed idea of a wonderful God. You have no idea what my idea of God is. As for your self-righteous, self-serving prayer: if God existed you would have absolutely no power over what He did. If you believe a few muttered words can cause God to do something He would otherwise not have done, then you are deeply deluded about the nature of your own alleged "faith." For someone under pain of true death for judging others, you seem remarkably oblivious of your own supposed religion. Good luck.

      ramnagel - 2011-01-18 19:06

      @JohannV: What is the nature of your FREE WILL that you so loudly mention? Do you choose not to commit murder because the consequences would be hellfire for you? Presumably you may believe that an atheist is more likely to commit murder because he does not fear God's punishment? Well, let me ask you this. Is murder wrong in and of itself, or is it only wrong because God says so? If the former is the case then atheists do not need God to know murder is wrong. And if murder is wrong only because God says so, then surely the genocide that God condones in the Old Testament shows that a morality based on God is arbitrary, and has no reliable foundation. If God told you murder was OK would you commit murder? God has condoned it in the past (remember Jericho and Joshua's slaughter of city of people?) so He could do so again. I mean God can do whatever He likes, right? Who are we to question or understand? It seems your idea of FREE WILL is a bit flaky. Atheists have no more to worry about how to exercise their free will than believers.

  • arno roll - 2011-02-04 14:15

    Does anyone of you actualy know what a relic is? If not shut up, its not an idol. God is beyond anyone of our understanding, hence it is called religion. I look into the eyes of my baby boy and I see the wonder of God.

  • callan.lombaard - 2011-02-04 14:39

    @JohannV I was a Christian and it was things like this that drove me from the church and into the warm embrace of the Gods my ancestors worshipped. I am now a Pagan walking the path of Norse Mythology. The religion is flawed, as are many religions, and there are way too many people who profess to be "christians" who are unfaithful to their partners, worship idols(which is what is being done here) and go completely against the ten commandments that your God gave you to live by. The way I see it, your God is sitting on his white fluffy cloud bawling his eyes out at the way you have all twisted his word. So go ahead and play us down by building yourself up, you stand before your God and tell him how you lived your life and suffer eternal damnation, while I stand before mine telling him how I fought with passion to bring justice to those that deserved it and lived by the values set by him for me

  • dick head - 2011-02-04 14:57

    What a bunch of country bumpkins. As has been said. Do you know what a relic is? This just goes to show the intelligence with which you direct you minds and make decisions. If I were reading this I would be wary of anybody not understanding the most basic principles.

  • Jakob - 2011-02-05 00:30

    jesus = horus = lucifer = morning star = fallen angel...

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