'London Taliban' targets women, gays

2011-04-18 13:11

Cape Town – Suspected 'Talibanesque thugs' are being investigated by London police after a spate of attacks against women and gay people in what seems to be a bid to impose Sharia law in the Tower Hamlets area, reported the UK's Daily Mail on Monday.

The paper said women who do not wear headscarves were being threatened with violence and even death by Islamic extremists intent on imposing Sharia law on parts of Britain.

Stickers have been plastered on public walls stating: "Gay free zone. Verily Allah is severe in punishment", The Daily Mail reported, adding that posters for H&M which feature women in bikinis and a racy poster for a Bollywood film had been defaced.

An Asian woman who works in a pharmacy in east London and is not a practising Muslim was told to dress more modestly and wear a veil or the shop would be boycotted.

When she went to the media to talk about the abuse, a man later came to the pharmacy and told her: "If you keep doing these things, we are going to kill you."

Three charged

According to the Daily Mail, the 31-year-old said she has since been told to go on leave by the pharmacy owners and now fears she may lose her job.

She said: "Why should I wear a hijab (headscarf) or burqa? I haven't done anything wrong."

Ghaffar Hussain, of the anti-extremism think tank the Quilliam Foundation, told The Sunday Times that the intimidation was the work of "Talibanesque thugs".

Three men have been charged with religiously-aggravated criminal damage in connection with some of the incidents.

Firebrand Muslim cleric Anjem Choudary told the Mail that he was aware of individuals who would speak up if they saw a Muslim woman without a headscarf, but insisted they were only giving advice about their views of Islam.

  • Gemini - 2011-04-18 13:23

    As a muslim i find this behaviour appaling. who died and left them in charge. who do these guys think they are. the world would be better of without them. Its people like this who give my beautiful religion a bad name.....

      tigertank - 2011-04-18 13:28

      Aren't they just being consistent muslims? (serious question)

      tigertank - 2011-04-18 13:32

      I should probably clarify the above question - I meant doesn't the Koran call for the subjugation of anyone in disagreement? By sword or by some sort of 'tax'? Hence violence (sword) or tax (boycott)?

      LexLuther - 2011-04-18 13:35

      I have to tell you that there are VERY few Muslims who give your "beautiful" religion a good name. If a religion is defined by its practitioners, your religion is hateful, violent, intolerant, unreasonable and frightening.

      Gallows - 2011-04-18 13:43

      @tigertank, they have very rigid ideas of what is acceptable. You'll find that the catholics played the game much the same way, but have had to revise their "teachings" in the face of people beginning to think for themselves. These religions are trying very hard to make people believe that they (the religions) are needed.

      Gemini - 2011-04-18 13:43

      These guys take extracts from the Koran to suit their own needs & agenda's. The Koran does not read like a book its a very complex text and takes at least 10years to study correctly and even then the scholars wil tell you they do not know the text 100%. u cannot read something from the Koran and say that it calls for the killing of people etc. The very first word ever revealed in the Koran was READ not kill. The Koran places a lot of emphises on seeking knowledge for all (men and woman)beacuse through education you can overcome a lot and Islam also teaches you that the pen is mightier than the sword. Yes as muslims we should be modest in our dress but we have to be modest in everything else as well - the way be behave, the way we eat, the way we live etc. Islam also teaches that if you live in a non-muslim country that allows you to practise your religion without fear then you must abide by the rules of that country. As far as i'm aware Britian has a lot of Mosques and Madressahs and even Islamic Schools. Where these guys get off trying to implement shariah law in a non-muslim country is beyond me - i think they all need to be comitted to a mental institute beacuse this is NOT ISLAM.

      tigertank - 2011-04-18 13:55

      It sounds like you are saying that the Koran is unclear, and open for subjective interpretation. If after 10 years of study, different imams come to radically difference conclusions, how can such a patently unclear book be the word of God? How can any muslim be sure they have interpretted it correctly? Especially if the natural reading of the text calls for violence, martyrdom, the oppression of women etc? If words mean anything, a muslim cannot in good conscience re-read a passage that clearly says the opposite of what the 'moderates' are teaching them. The result? Islamic Extremism a.k.a. Consistent Islam

      The realist - 2011-04-18 13:57

      @Lex Luther I dont believe that there are very few who give our religion a good name, I believe there are many. The differene is that the many are operating on the ground, out of the view of the media, who we need to remember will contort anything to suit the acheievement of their own monetary gains. Only the bad one's get media attention, and the rest is going to sound like politics so i will leave it at that

      stephen scott - 2011-04-18 14:02

      Your not a Muslim, your a half muslim, theses guys are just doing what that lovely book is telling them to do.

      The realist - 2011-04-18 15:12

      @tigertank Just to clarify something quickly, the period of study is 7 years, after which you need to still proceed to obtain qualifications in certain languages and have met a few other requirements. The problem occurs when one person interprets something to his own satisfaction, as what needs tohappen is that a body of scholars needs to verify any sort of interpretation to see whether it is in line with what is actually being said. To put your perception into perspective: There is honour in being a martyr - Given Martyr by its staright definition would be someone who dies in battle Then you get Captain idiot who translates it for himself, and says is you kill yourself in "battle" you're a martyr, the idiot doesnt realise that the Quran specifically says suicide is forbidden. Above that, who gives these individuals to call for "Jihad". There are numerous conditions that need to be met before such a call is made(By the learned elders) not least of which is oppression. What we have is a bunch of people doing their own thing trying to justify their insanity with a religion. The same thing that was done in the crusades, killing in the name of God. God has never sais that anyone should kill anyone else. Some idiot interpreted it all wrong

      The realist - 2011-04-18 15:17

      @Stephen Scott Dont make stupid accusations. Speak intelligently and listen intelligently. The book is not telling them to do it, they are brainwashed into believeing that what they do is right, by some freak who interprets things himself. Here an example for you: Jesus Said: "And Turn to God Almighty, for he is One" and then there were three - Apologies, I dont mean to offend anyone by that, but consider, why the difference between what he said and what is believed now? Could it perhaps be something taken out of context? If you claim to be intelligent at all, consider the Quran expressly forbidding suicide and people going and doing it, do you blame the Quran or them? Here's another example for you You believe that Muslims are bad. You believe this because the media told you this. What experience have you had? Have you ever bothered looking into who owns these media productions and why they publish this? Learn, before speaking, otherwise all that comes out is stupid....

      piet.strydom - 2011-04-18 15:35

      As a Christian, I shamefully have to point out that the sword of Islam was sharpened by centuries of Christian crusades to "free" Jerusalem.

      will294 - 2011-04-18 15:38

      @Gemini - How is it that many learned Imams in places as far afield as Afghanistan and London interpret it in such a radical way. Presumably the Imams have studied the Koran for many years ?

      Gemini - 2011-04-18 16:07

      @Will294 - becos these guys do this for their own agendas. Its called greed & power. These asses preach and sit back - get others to do tehir dirty work but they themselves just get fatter by the day and build their bank balances. Just like the Evangelists - they profess to be chosen by God but really are guys with their own agenda's.

      LexLuther - 2011-04-18 17:00

      @ Gemini and @ The Realist - thank you for your calm and measured responses. You are right. Probably the majority of Muslims are not the fundamentalist, violent, hate-filled Islamist we read and hear about in the media, and I am sure there are many ways to interpret the Koran. The problem is that even if it is 1% of the Muslim population that is like that, with over a billion Muslims in the world, that adds up to at least 10 million people who want an Islam-dominated world where the Kuran's literal command is that those who do not submit must die. That is pretty frightening...

      Remola - 2011-04-18 19:00

      mohammed was a pedophile. He "married" a girl at age 7(One of his 11 wives)and consummated the "marriage" when the girl was only 9 years old. Anybody who spends 1 second listening to or defending the words of a pedophile is rubbish of the HIGHEST order, religion aside. Make a choice, either you are a human being or a pedophile whoreshiper and if you follow islam you are a whoreshiper.

      Remola - 2011-04-18 19:02

      I dont need to read 1 word of the Koran to know it was writen by a pedophile. I would NEVER EVER READ A BOOK WRITEN BY A PEDOPHILE and anybdody that does is scum.

      Remola - 2011-04-18 19:05

      @the realist. Again, you worship a pedophile. All your arguments does not hold one moment of value when weighed against that very simple truth. Only a piece of sh*t would marry a 6 year old and have sex with her. And you worship this THING.

      Remola - 2011-04-18 19:07

      @the reality and gemini. How can you call yourself decent when you defend the works of a pedophile?

      Dave - 2011-04-18 23:55

      Most of the extremists are from the middle East. These are countries that have lived with wars both internal and external for centuries, hatred and killing is all they know. They want Sharia law so that they can continue with their lust for blood with impunity but their version of it is so open to interpretation that you only need to cough and they can find a way to execute you for it. They have done the same with the Koran. If I am correct, it states that it should not be translated from its original language since it would lead to problems of mis-translation. An example would be the "72 virgins" the word used for "virgin" actually translates more exactly to "pure" and from the rest of the text, I deduce that it actually meant that you will be greeted by 72 others who are pure of heart who have already gone to heaven before you. This is coming from a Christian who has read the Koran from Indonesia with an open mind as to it's meaning. Regretfully, I cannot read it in it's original language but I can see where some things can easily be misinterpreted during translation. The Koran from the Middle East is completely different and in reality, should not be called Islam at all since the ideaology is totally opposite.

      The realist - 2011-04-19 07:02

      @Remola Bold words. Were you there? Half your priests are peadophiles, and you have the nerve to point out and critisize someoen else. You obviously think that the mush in your head is a brain. Consider this you useless piece of dog shit, you are following a religion that has been fabricated from day 1, which just happens to be 400 years after Jesus passed. So, in other words, you're a complete twat and shoudl refrain from making any comments at all. Sort your skeletons out you useless pathetci whimp, before taking a stab at anyone else.

      The realist - 2011-04-19 07:05

      @Lex Luther I hear you, and there is no excuse for what you've stated. The problem is that it is not within our power, sitting thousands of miles away to be-able to take these freaks on. Further to this, had we attempted to take these people on, we woudl be very hyppocritical, purely because we woudl then be breaching another law of teh same land that we believe should be left to its own people to run. All we need is to take them on and then have America try and bomb us for standing for what is right. We've seen it happen havent we?

  • Mad Hatter - 2011-04-18 13:26

    Whats the common thread ? Standing like giant mammoth in the room. Clearly advise for Muslims equates to death threats for non-complaince . Religion = modern day multi-national cult.

      The realist - 2011-04-18 13:38

      Clearly you shoudl try not generalise and blame an entire religion for a bunch of idiots. I am a muslim, and I can tell you that one of the lessons we are taught is not impose our way on anyone. If these idiots lived correctly, they woudl be showing what a beautiful religion it is, instead of going onto someone elses turf and trying to impose thier "extremist" beliefs.... The sad part is that they get media attention with this retarded behaviour, and they paint all of us in a bad light, cos nobody looks at their behaviour and actually thinks that its just them...

      The realist - 2011-04-19 07:10

      @Remola You obviously have been in a relationship with a terrorist. Try and keep your personal hatred aside. If you were treated that way, you deal with yoru demons. Dont try and insult a man that you coul dnever amount to, even if you lived for a 1000 years. Now... Instead of opening your mouth and damagin teh ozon layer with teh filth that comes out, go back to Palestiine, Afghanistan or wherever the hell it was that you were abused, and either face your demon, or bow at his feet so that he could kick your teeth out...

  • Ms M - 2011-04-18 13:40

    These 'Talibanesque thugs' are not acting in accordance with Islam as Islam preaches tolerance and peace. They are extremists who are twisting the words of God to suit them. In Islam, woman are held in very high esteem and these brutes will be duly punished for their mistreatment of woman.

      Isabel Jones - 2011-04-18 14:22

      Yeah right ..."women are held in very high esteem" ... misogynists the lot of them. Denied an education and free will for the most part, stoned for frivolous reasons without a fair hearing. Blamed for their own rape even if the stupid bastard that did the raping couldn't keep his tackle in his pants in the first place! Killed by their own family members if they do anything deemed 'wrong' (e.g., got raped), by their fathers / uncles / cousins - typical patriarchal society that values women lower than they would a chicken. So glad I don't live in a country where Islam and the Taliban feature - hell cannot possibly be worse. And yes, my opinions are shaped by the horror stories that come out of Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, afghanistan and other hellholes!

      Ms M - 2011-04-18 15:21

      Isabel - you obviously have no true knowledge of woman in Islam and should therefore hold back on your comments. Your opinions of Islam are tainted by a bunch radicals whose barbaric acts are not the teachings of Islam. The Quran says "Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave", this is for both men and woman. Nowhere does it say that woman should be denied an education. The 'honour killings' which you refer to are totally unislamic and are carried out by monsterous beings. Please do not paint all muslims with the same brush because of a handful of idiots.

      The realist - 2011-04-18 15:22

      @Isabel Jones Thsi coming from a woman who is "educated" into being a desirous product for men, by men. Again, you need to realise that because some people do something wrong, it doesnt justify stupid generalisations that echo a lack of intelligence. Just so you know, Islam actually gives woman much more than you "westernised" women could ever realise. YOU are products, for display, and for gratuitous use. Trained to presneting yourself in a sexual manner, because that is the only level on which a "western" women can be accepted. A Muslim women has more authority in her household and even in her extended family than most men would have in the same scenario. Dont generalise, you are bound to continue saying teh stupid things you seem to pump out so easily

      will294 - 2011-04-18 15:39

      @Gemini - How is it that many learned Imams in places as far afield as Afghanistan and London interpret it in such a radical way. Presumably the Imams have studied the Koran for many years ?

      The realist - 2011-04-18 15:46

      @Will 294 If you learned the bible in an open field with ony a coupel of peace loving learned people...and then were exposed to people who learned teh bible in a temple full of dimwits who kept telling you to sacrifice yourself for teh woudl you view those people? Its the circumstances under which they learn... They are being taught that they should be as ridiculous as they are, by someone else who stands to gain something...which he is obviously failing at, cos he has gained nothing but a whole lot of pain and death and suffering for everyone associated to this...

      Moi1980 - 2011-04-18 16:00

      @Ms M - you say Isabel is generalising. Now look at your own comments;@Isabel Jones Thsi coming from a woman who is "educated" into being a desirous product for men, by men. Again, you need to realise that because some people do something wrong, it doesnt justify stupid generalisations that echo a lack of intelligence. Just so you know, Islam actually gives woman much more than you "westernised" women could ever realise. YOU are products, for display, and for gratuitous use. Trained to presneting yourself in a sexual manner, because that is the only level on which a "western" women can be accepted." Is that not also generalising??

      Moi1980 - 2011-04-18 16:02

      @Ms M - just to add, I find your comments about western women extremely offensive

      Gemini - 2011-04-18 16:39

      Jeez Ms Jones - you know nothing about the true status of woman in Islam yet you want to bash my Religion. As a muslim woman I have rights even before you were allowed to sign your own name on a piece of paper - my religion commands education for all (men & woman), the Koran says that i am equeal to any man (except in strength & build), I can own my own home (in my own name), earn my own money (and not have to share a dime with my husband if i so wish), That paradies lies at my feet. What were you given - up until 1983 in SA you were not allowed jack as a "western" woman. You couldnt even own your own business without your husband having to counter-sign for u as well. Are woman in SA not classified as PREVIOUSLY DISADVANTAGED (not just black woman all woman. Does a company not earn extra browning points for having a woman as a director? When the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) was alive & someone asked him who should be the most honoured and respected person in a Household after Dog and Prophet he replied that it MUST be your MOTHER, your MOTHER, your MOTHER - and he said that 3 time in order to ephasise how important we are, and that as a woman i must be reverred, respected and honoured. These guys who go around beating woman for not dressing accordingly or who blame woman for her own rape or who kill their daughters, mothers, sisters etc in the name of honour are just SICK individuals who should be taken out and shot. So please try & educate urself first b4 passing judgement. PEACE

      Remola - 2011-04-18 19:25

      How can you claim woman in high regard when your pedophile leader, mohammed, raped a little girl. And he preaches its OK in his writing. Thats why woman are less than slaves in a muslim household.

      The realist - 2011-04-19 07:31

      @Moi1980 I apologise for the comments being offensive, I really do. What you can see form it though, is that when generalising, you end up offending people and critisizing people who have done nothing wrong...correct??? Those comments have been aimed at Isabel Jones, purely because she is a product of the so called "westernised world" and she fails to realise how every breath she takes and ever step she walks has been manipulated, for centuriees, before her time, and she has stupidly fallen into that world without an ounce fo intelligence or question... A person who never questions and behaves like a sheep, can never be regarded as intelligent. Again, I apologise for offending you, unfortunately, on a public forum, the comments, liek the books, could be taken differently by each person. Be that as it may, I should not have generalised either.

      The realist - 2011-04-19 07:33

      @remola One more thing you neanderthal retard.... The book was not written by Mohammed(S.A.W.)

      Moi1980 - 2011-04-19 07:48

      @Ms M - yet by generalising, you are doing the exact same thing that she is doing. I too am a product of the western world. I think you are mistaken in assuming that it is just those in the "western world" that are manipulated. It is the same for all cultures and religions, regardless of where in the world. We are raised/manipulated as per our culture, be it western or arabic.

      The realist - 2011-04-19 08:52

      @Moi1980 I agree, everyone is manipulated at different levels, at all stages of their life. The difference is in how you are manipulated, and whether you are objective and alert enough to question what you are being told to do. As unfortunate as it is, we all have been exposed to "western" manipulation, and from what we can see, alot of people are manipulated by "eastern" ideals... Be that as it may, what is becoming more and more evident the more we discuss this is that we all are puppets for someone elses game, and here we sit, arguing which of those puppeteers are right and wrong. I dont deny that I was generalising, and like I said, I should not have, but more importantly, I did not itend to offend you. I dont know you, and I apologise for offending you by any of teh statements I have made.

  • Andy skinstad - 2011-04-18 13:43

    I'm not saying that the above isn't true, but take everything you hear from The Daily Mail with a pinch of salt.

  • willem.p.grobbelaar - 2011-04-18 13:45

    simple solution: kill them

      The realist - 2011-04-18 13:52

      Unfortunately, killing is again something else that Islam does not sanction. God(Allah) is the one who gives and takes life. Had it been an option, I would think Muslims around the world (Well, the "rest" of the world) woudl love to get rid of these psychotic F@#$^#S that ruin teh name of our religion, and ruin teh efforts of millions of Muslims worldwide to just live a peaceful life. While your comment is pretty hateful, I dont believe that its necessary to retort with it, rather understand that there is a huge misconception of Muslims being created by teh media. It would be too much to explain now, but at least be intellectual enough to consider the truth.

      jowza - 2011-04-18 14:18


      Isabel Jones - 2011-04-18 14:30

      @ The Realist you can make a start by initiating a 'peaceful solution' to the problem ... right the wrongs of Islam by ensuring that there are no more suicide bombers, or bombs to kill innocent citizens anywhere in the world. Then you can invite Osama Bin-Laden and his associates over for a cuppa tea and a chat regarding the Jihad situation and politely request the revoking of all Fatwa's so that the world can enjoy the peace and harmony humankind are striving for. As my grandmother would say: (yes, in the western world we may express an opinion without being stoned to death!) "As long as women have sons there will be war" ... therein lies the root of the problem.

      stephen scott - 2011-04-18 14:49

      jowza, your right the bible has no problem with keeping slaves.

      The realist - 2011-04-18 15:36

      @Isabel Jones Do you think that we woudl not love a peaceful solution to the problem. DO you think I sit here watching innocent people dying with a smile? If I had a peaceful solution, I would have delivered it already. Osama bin Laden (Whaa haa haa) the American governments puppet, come on serious...Go look at him and whitney houston on their drinking sprees. Osama is teh biggest idiot of them all, an I would not sit a mile close to him. I love the fact that you have an opinion, I'm just waiting for and intelligent one.... Help me understand, you hated Islam first, now you hate men? Whats next?

      Remola - 2011-04-18 19:32

      @all the defenders of the pedophile. If your "religion" is so peaceful why is it associated the world over with oppression and hate. Why is there so little condemnation in the news from you imams when your people commit gross human rights abuses. You are speaking the word of a violent child rapist, defending it, trying to sell it to the world.

  • tootingdel - 2011-04-18 14:02

    Unfortunately this is same the world over - a lack of tolerance. We need to judge - if that is the right word - people according to their behaviour not their so-called beliefs. Enjoying differences, welcoming them but not having to agree with them is the best way forward for all of us to live in peace together. Why are people so insecure that they have to try and impose their behaviourisms on others? What do they have to fear from women dressed without veils or homosexual people?

  • Moi1980 - 2011-04-18 14:06

    If they are found guilty, and if they are not born and bred UK citizens, should they be allowed to stay in the country??? Surely if you do not accept the laws of the said country where you now live, you should not be allowed to stay on?

  • NeilSWLondon - 2011-04-18 14:19

    I believe that the problem is not Islam, it's not the extremists in Islam, it's religion as a whole. Religion should be a private matter and left there. If you choose to believe then that's fine, just don't try and impose it on anyone else. If there is truly a heaven and hell, then you're safe, if not then at least you lead a peaceful life - let the rest of us make up our own minds !!

      The realist - 2011-04-18 15:24

      WHoaaa.... I respect you...Thank you for this

      will294 - 2011-04-18 15:42

      I agree with you completely - but no other religion (in the present day) tries to impose it's rules on other people in such violent ways.

      The realist - 2011-04-18 15:51

      @Will294 Its not the religion guy, its the idiots that are being shown in the media... I personally would not Impose this on anybody in any violent way, and not because its not possible, but because my religion has taught me differently...and because its morally wrong...Islam has taught me to be kind to all creation, because they are all creation of God, and I am nobody to see myself as better than the next person...he is the Creator, we are the created...

      NeilSWLondon - 2011-04-18 16:26

      @will294 - True, but if we had to look at either Judaism or Christianity at he same 'age', then there was loads of violence. I am not saying it's right, if fact I am an atheist because i have researched in the main mono theistic religions and have found them ungrounded. religion is a manifestation of a humans need to control others, it's part of our evolution and like the appendix, will no longer be needed one day.

      The realist - 2011-04-19 09:02

      @Jaco louw... Facts...references etc.... The first hand-written English language manuscripts of the Bible were produced in 1380's AD by Oxford theologian John Wycliff (Wycliffe). Curiously, he was also the inventor of bifocal eyeglasses. Wycliff spent many of his years arguing against the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church which he believed to be contrary to the Bible. Though he died a nonviolent death, the Pope was so infuriated by his teachings that 44 years after Wycliff had died, he ordered the bones to be dug-up, crushed, and scattered in the river! The New Testament was completed in 1557, and the complete Bible was first published in 1560. It became known as the Geneva Bible. Due to a passage in Genesis desribing the clothing that God fashioned for Adam and Eve upon expulsion from the Garden of Eden as "Breeches" (an antiquated form of "Britches"), some people referred to the Geneva Bible as the Breeches Bible. Gutenburg invented the printing press in the 1450's, and the first book to ever be printed was the Bible. It was, however, in Latin rather than English. With the onset of the Reformation in the early 1500's, the first printings of the Bible in the English language were produced...illegally and at great personal risk of those involved. But wait...there's more...

      The realist - 2011-04-19 09:13

      More... The Geneva Bible was the first Bible to add verses to the chapters, so that referencing specific passages would be easier. Every chapter was also accompanied by extensive marginal notes and references so thorough and complete that the Geneva Bible is also considered the first English "Study Bible". William Shakespeare quotes thousands of times in his plays from the Geneva translation of the Bible. The Geneva Bible became the Bible of choice for over 100 years of English speaking Christians. Between 1560 and 1644 at least 144 editions of this Bible were published. Examination of the 1611 King James Bible shows clearly that its translators were influenced much more by the Geneva Bible, than by any other source. The Geneva Bible itself retains over 90% of William Tyndale's original English translation. The Geneva in fact, remained more popular than the King James Version until decades after its original release in 1611! The Geneva holds the honor of being the first Bible taken to America, and the Bible of the Puritans and Pilgrims. You may also want to look at these

  • Loodpil - 2011-04-18 14:33

    I don't get this... these guys leave their home countries because, quite frankly, its sh*t (literally and figuratively speaking) and move to a country they deem to be better. Then as soon as they get there they do their utmost best to change it into the place they've just escaped from. Maybe I'm generalising a bit.

      The realist - 2011-04-18 15:38

      Nope, no generalising here, they're a bunch of dickheads...and you're 100% on teh mark...they shoudl have stayed where they were...

  • Joe - 2011-04-18 14:38

    Why are these people been labled as Talibanesque thugs??? More Taliban bashing as usual. The taliban are not what the media portrays them to be. The real thugs are America and its allies..they invaded a country who has nothing and yet still can't beat them. The taliban are the rightly guided ones. They rid the lands of khuransan of alcohol, fornication etc.. They impose sharia law because the land of afghanistan is a muslim land and they have every right to do so (Quran says ALL muslim lands should be under Sharia law). What these british guys are doing is not correct because they are the minority and have to abide by the british laws.

      The realist - 2011-04-18 15:40

      I hear you, and you are right, but teh Americans in Afghanistan are purely for the growing of crops for Opium(Seriously, look up teh info). We all know the americans are messed up....But...I have to disagree with teh British part. They wanna go there, they need to abide by those laws, not go and impose their way on the people of that land...they shoudl go and live harmoniously, not disrupt other innocent peoples lives...

  • stephen scott - 2011-04-18 14:59

    The UK got nothing but problems coming, racial and religious, and they deserve it all, letting the country flood with insane intolerant emigrants.

  • Gemini - 2011-04-18 15:23

    @ tigertank - i dont think i'm explaining myself too well. The Koran is a complicated text - as is the Torah and the Old testament. The current Bible is only easy to understand now because of the numerous changes its been through. Even the Torah cannot be interpreted at face value & thats why the Rabbis spend years studying it. So basically what i TRYING to say is that you cannot just read the Koran and interpret it like that you REALLY have to know whats being said. Granted there are a few texts that are simple to grasp & comprehend but others require more indepth knowleged of the religion and its history ect to understand.

      jacolouw82 - 2011-04-18 15:54

      Uhm... what changes were made to the Bible?

      Gemini - 2011-04-18 16:15

      How many diff versions of the Bible do you have. How many texts have been deleted or amended - this is a fact dear. Go back and research it.

      jacolouw82 - 2011-04-18 16:32

      Haha, those versions aren't different at all. The Bible was written in a few different languages: Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. These languages are very rich and descriptive where a certain phrase can be translated into english in different ways. The sentence still says the same thing, but the way it is said differs in the different versions or translations of the Bible. You can read the different versions and compare them for yourself, they're the same. Also, as the english language have evolved, so the Bible has been translated to keep up with the changes. When it comes to original texts, there is over 24 000 ancient copies of the New Testament dating back to +- 300AD in the original languages with the copies being 99.5% accurate. It's the oldest and most accurate ancient texts in the world by far. Maybe you need to do a bit more research instead of accepting things at face value.

      NeilSWLondon - 2011-04-18 16:37

      @jacolouw82 - so what are your thoughts on the gnostic Gospels and out of the 15+ books available for the Bible's gospels they only chose 4 ? if you read Judas's account of the events then Christians should be praising him for facilitating Christ to die for our sins - without Judas Christ would have died of old age you you would not be bowing to a cross right now - but instead you all hate him !

      jacolouw82 - 2011-04-18 16:51

      Concerning the "gospel of Judas", as far as I know this manuscript only surfaced recently where a big hoo-ha was made by the National Geographic. Apparently a third of the text is missing or illegible, and it's been dated to 5th century AD. It has many contradictions to the NT, and there's only ONE copy. It's not hard to refute this text as a heretical forgery, like the Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Thomas, and the Gospel of Philip.

      The realist - 2011-04-19 07:18

      @jacolouw With respect, you actually do need to do some homework. The bible (Old testament) was written 400 years after Jesus passed, by a man that has never encountered him.(Point 1) This bible, which is supposedly the true word of God, even the, prohibited the consumption of pork and wine. Your bible then was edited to state that it can be eaten provided you are not a glutton. This is just one example of how it was edited, by man, to suit mans greed. Further to this, you need to go back and look at one profound statement made by the "learned Elders of Zion"... "We gave your religion to you".... It seems you are teh one that needs to do a bit more research

      jacolouw82 - 2011-04-19 08:16

      Oh please man. Am I supposed to take YOUR word on that?! You need to cite some references or something to make a statement like that. Even secular historians agree on the facts I stated above. And to say that the Old Testament was written 400 years after Jesus is probably the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. You know the Jewish nation Israel is built upon what is written in the Old Testament? It dates back to long before Jesus was even born!!

      jacolouw82 - 2011-04-19 08:36

      And you say Islam started Christianity??? Dude, you believe everything in your texts as facts, but you have absolutely no evidence outside of the Koran to back it up. None of the historical information in the Bible has ever been proven false. This information dates back thousands of years before Christ. All archaeological artefacts found (related to things written in the Bible) actually confirms what written in the Bible. No other texts even come close to the Bible when it comes to authenticity! The Koran demands you do not question what it says, but the Bible says to question everything. I'm convinced by evidence, not force.

      The realist - 2011-04-19 09:15

      @Jaco Louw...see above

      The realist - 2011-04-19 09:20

      @Jaco Louw... One more thing... Go read some facts, which I doubt you would be willing to do unless you had an open mind...about teh Quran and the bible... Interestingly enough, Jesus is mentioned at least 37 times more in teh Quran than in the bible, and in a more respected way than you could ever imagine... If you're interested in knowing facts, take the time to read teh facts...

      jacolouw82 - 2011-04-19 09:27

      Ok, I read that, whats the point? I'm not talking about the english translation of the Bible, I'm talking about the origin of what the Bible was translated from. Have you heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls?

      The realist - 2011-04-19 09:27

      Just a coupel more interesting facts about teh editing fo teh bible by different people to suit their own intentions at the time... Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel? (a) God did (2 Samuel 24: 1) (b) Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1) In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel? (a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9) (b) One million, one hundred thousand (IChronicles 21:5) How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark? (a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20) (b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9) Jesus descended from which son of David? (a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6) (b) Nathan(Luke3:31) What was the exact wording on the cross? (a) “This is Jesus the King of the Jews” (Matthew 27:37) (b) “The King of the Jews” (Mark 15:26) (c) “This is the King of the Jews” (Luke 23:38) (d) “Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews” (John 19:19) All of this highlights how many times teh bible was changed or written differently, according to teh writers opinion... Let us not argue the fact that there are different versions, because no matter how mcuh we aregue, teh fact will remin the fact...

      The realist - 2011-04-19 09:30

      @Jaco Louw Islam did not start Christianity, it would be arrogant and stupid to even think of making a claim like that. Christianity was started by the Jews, not by Islam. And if you want spefici references on that, go to your nearest cinagogue, or dial 0800-dial-a-rabbi....

      The realist - 2011-04-19 09:47

      @Jaco Louw... And you suppose your dead sea scrolls came from where?

      jacolouw82 - 2011-04-19 10:23

      Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel? In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel? How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark? Jesus descended from which son of David? What was the exact wording on the cross? Okay, answers to all your "changes". And no matter how much you google to find so-called errors or changes in the Bible, there are answers to all of them. I cannot believe in the god of Islam. One that is angry and scowling down at us, demanding perfection. When I look at the state of humanity, I'm convinced that the god of Islam is very unreasonable, and has no idea what it is to be human. I know in my heart that no amount of works on my part can make me holy. In fact, the world is doomed, as we are inherently sinful and corrupt. But when I look at Christ, I see love, acceptance and understanding. I see a price that was paid that I could never have paid. I see an act of cleansing that I could never accomplish. The world needs a saviour.. not more laws, fear and oppression!

      The realist - 2011-04-19 10:51

      Ok, so what you have done, is highlight the fact there are different versions by your own admission here. There are two things present in our conversation 1. Your perception of Islam as portrayed by the media. You seem like an intelligent person, why not look beyond what you are being fed? If you are that bold, why not experience normal muslim people, rather than the media inspired terrorists that you think are the core fo Islam? Afraid that you might like it? 2. Your religious views, and mine. We need to agree that although they follow almost teh same route through history, they are different. I am not here to convince you about teh good in my religion, neither am I here to be convinced about teh good in yours. I actually did bible studies, and you wouldnt expect me to scan and paste your bible up here now would you? Besides, you practice yours, I practice mine. I dont wait for teh media (Which is christian and jewish owned) to present the bad side of christianity to me so that I have something to pick on. I accept that while it may be true or untrue, your religion is your religion. Why shoudl the general non muslim population find a problem with mine??? In any case, I have seen fact for myself, and chosen my religion, from what i saw for myself, whereas you have had yours fed down your throat since birth and have been cultured into believing that what was told to you is true... To each his own I suppose...

      The realist - 2011-04-19 10:53

      One last thing...remember this, it may come in handy some day.... There are none so blind as those who refuse to see...

      jacolouw82 - 2011-04-19 11:01

      Sorry, there was no context to your quotation "We gave your religion to you" so I assumed that's what you meant. I know Jesus is mentioned in the Quran. It makes sense, since Islam originated long after Christ, +- 600 years if I'm not mistaken. Could you please qualify your statements about the Old Testament was written 400 years after Christ. It's quite ludicrous since the Old Testament prophesies about a coming Messiah, which is the Jesus, and thus if the Old Testament was only written 400 years later, it's kind of ridiculous people saying Jesus is the Messiah, but the Old Testament didn't exist... so nobody would know what they're talking about... so that statement is ludicrous.

      jacolouw82 - 2011-04-19 11:47

      No, not different versions, but different translations. One version. I have actually not mentioned much about my perception of Islam or Muslims. I've read some books on it, and do know a bit about what it teaches. I also have Muslim friends believe it or not, and I have no problem with the people. I actually like Muslims, and my views aren't shaped by media. I need facts and evidence though to make me believe something... I need my experience on this earth to make sense and confirm my beliefs. Islam does not provide that for me. I respect your decision to practise your religion. The only thing that gets me is the fact that Islam demands me to submit to it. I believe in free choice. If you as a Muslim respect my decision, then great, I believe we could live in harmony. Also, in terms of my beliefs being force-fed to me from birth. This is not the case. I was an agnostic for most of my life, and only a few years ago discovered the truth for myself. Islam forbids those who believe to question it, while Christianity encourages it. Which one of these will make the believers more closed-minded? You decide for yourself.

  • VooDooGT - 2011-04-18 16:17

    The Koran is not unclear about anything. Either Do it or Dont. the issues comes in when the situations change around the decision. Due to moderisation, it's become increasingly difficult to keep the youth in the fold of islam, so the obvious thing to do is to misinterpret the scriptures and bend the rules to suit one's selfish needs.

      The realist - 2011-04-19 07:19


  • VooDooGT - 2011-04-18 16:25

    Speaking of the Bible, just curious, why are there no surnames to the authors of the different versions. Surely if I was to pass on the word if God to generations of people, i would want them to trace it back to my linage to authenticate the word of god. For eg. Luke, John, Mark etc Just a question!!!

  • Mr T - 2011-04-18 17:14

    Hi All, every religion teaches us tolerance. All religion believes in GOD whatever name we call him/her and it teaches us to be good and do good. It humans interpretation of these religious texts that sometimes cause these issues. Every religion has extrimists and we must not insult the religion because at the core that is never what religious teachings intended. You can be a Hindu, Christian, Buddist, Muslim or any religion, there is only one GOD and he has the name you chose to call him. Most important is live your life the way you believe is right, and respect the way others chose to live their lives

      The realist - 2011-04-19 07:21

      Thank you Mr T. I appreciate your breath of fresh air into this. You are truly someone worth listening to and I respect the somments you make.

  • Dave - 2011-04-18 23:33

    Kick these Islamic extremeists out and make sure they don't come back, end of story, game over. Show them we will not accept their intolerance. If they want to live by Sharia law, let them live in a country that already has it and not try to impose it in our country. I have lived among Muslims in Indonesia and found them to be tolerant and friendly for the most part. These extremists who have twisted the words of the Koran to justify their bloodlust are the exception rather than the rule from my experience. They are not welcome here.

  • Badballie - 2011-04-19 07:37

    As a non Muslim all I can say is these people are tarnishing the international image of the Muslim community. they should be caught and deported

  • kaiqi26 - 2011-04-24 04:04 ????????~??? ,)))),”)~~ ,”~) ??¦? ??¦? |? ?||?|?| ++++++++++++++ ~~0nline st0re~~~ + + –?--------------?– ——F r e e—S h i p p i n g—

  • CaptainGaza - 2012-09-04 12:57

    This makes perfect sense, religion prays on the weak!!!

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