News24

Mixed responses to Obama gay marriage stance

2012-05-10 07:26

Washington - Some rejoiced in the US president's courage. Others predicted hellfire at the polls. One pastor said he would reflect on the matter in prayer.

President Barack Obama's announcement on Wednesday that he supported same-sex marriage stirred impassioned responses at places of worship across the US, underscoring the risk he took in coming out in favour of such a controversial measure.

Gay and liberal Christians found renewed enthusiasm for Obama, who had disappointed many on the left when his 2008 message of hope and change ran into the realities of governing.

"It just makes me giddy with joy. I have been bouncing around all day," said the Reverend Annie Steinberg-Behrman, a United Church of Christ pastor in Berkeley, California, who married her partner in 2004.

But some conservative Christians who cite the Bible in opposing gay marriage have also found a reason to campaign against Obama when he seeks re-election on November 6 against presumptive Republican nominee Mitt Romney.

"This could definitely get them riled up ... hopefully," said Caryl Scales, a member of Hampton Road Baptist Church in DeSoto, Texas. "I'm not happy with it. I believe scripture. God's word says gay marriage is wrong."

National religious leaders with a weightier voice also came down against Obama.

Cardinal Timothy Dolan, president of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, called Obama's remarks "deeply saddening".

Key to social conservative support

"We cannot be silent in the face of words or actions that would undermine the institution of marriage, the very cornerstone of our society," Dolan said. "The people of this country, especially our children, deserve better."

The Family Research Council, which says it champions marriage and family as the foundation of civilization, called Obama's position "disappointing but not surprising."

"Today's announcement almost ensures that marriage will again be a major issue in the presidential election," council President Tony Perkins said.

"Romney ... may have been handed the key to social conservative support by President Obama," Perkins said.

Pentecostal Pastor Charles Bargaineer of the largely black New Fellowship Church of God in the Orlando suburb of Winter Park, Florida, was troubled by Obama's position, saying he may reconsider his support for the man he voted for in 2008.

"I don't think that's appropriate for the president," Bargaineer said. "The Bible's strictly against that."

Regarding whether he would vote for Obama again this year, he said, "I'll have to pray about that."

Reverend Jane Spahr, a lesbian evangelist who has defied her Presbyterian Church by performing same-sex marriages, applauded the president.

"Because he understands oppression, he knows that loves is no second-class thing," Spahr said from her San Francisco home.

The Reverend Curran Reichert, a pastor at Community Congregational Church of Tiburon-Belvedere in California who is married to her partner, praised the president for doing what she called his job.

"You can't stop a moving train," Reichert said.

Another gay pastor, the Reverend Scott Clark of the San Francisco Theological Seminary in San Anselmo, California, said it was uplifting for gay people to hear the message from the White House.

"It has taken him a while to get there," he said, "but it is just deeply moving for me to hear the president of the US finally acknowledge the full dignity and humanity of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people and our families."

Comments
  • Sechaba30 - 2012-05-10 07:30

    He is Trying to get votes from Americans, I have not forgiven him for what he did to Gaddafi.

      Siphiwo - 2012-05-10 07:47

      Sechaba, we all felt bad about the brutality shown to Gaddafi, but what about South Africa, endorsing it? I still feel, South Africa, should have taken a neutral position on this matter, not voting for the no-fly zone in Tripoli. Bad move, we did...so, it is not Obama alone now...

      Jack - 2012-05-10 07:51

      The biggest noise makers get the most attention. He is commiting political suicide. He has already forgotton what happend in California with prop8 and now he's taking on the whole country. He's giving Romney a boost like none other.

      James - 2012-05-10 07:51

      What did he do to Gaddafi?

      Gieljam - 2012-05-10 08:02

      Sechaba 03 Turn around 180 degrees man you are attacking the wrong tree..

      John - 2012-05-10 08:04

      You really think that Obama saying he supports gay marriage will get him votes???? Everyone knows that America is full of religious nutjobs who will stop at nothing to prevent equal marriage rights. If anything, Obama probably made he's re-election uncertain.

      veldt66 - 2012-05-10 08:09

      Its a Western thing after all, Obama senses an opening considering the millions of them there!!!

      Benn - 2012-05-10 08:10

      "Gay christian"? Not possible! A Christian is someone who has been to the Cross of Jesus Christ, nailed their sin (all sin, including homosexuality)to it and has turned their backs to it and bares the fruit of the Holy Spirit. That does not include sin in any form-period.

      Preshen - 2012-05-10 08:21

      Gays must have the right to marry they must also suffer like the rest of us

      ian.levinson.7 - 2012-05-10 08:43

      have you gone senile, he is the american president so obviously americans do the voting, do you know why? Could it be because it all happens in america DUH, unlike here where we dont have a choice in who runs for the party we want to vote for, here they just have a groot piss up at tax payers expense and decides who runs, stuff the people

      Muhammad - 2012-05-10 08:49

      Western culture is based on immorality and extravagance while Islam is based on morality and simplicity.

      tobydt - 2012-05-10 08:49

      Obama also took out bin laden :P

      martin.gee.godfrey - 2012-05-10 09:07

      @Muhammad, so you are saying there are no gay Muslims, No Muslims who partake of alcohol or gambling? wow what planet do you live on? Pop down to your local casino and see how many Muslims you will find in the Club Prives!! Just because you close your eyes to it, doesnt mean it doesnt exist!

      mholthuysen - 2012-05-10 10:55

      @ Muhammed - than it makes perfect sense why the Saudi Prince Saud Abdulaziz bin Nasser al Saud murdered his gay rent boy in a London hotel suite during a cocaine and whiskey party.

      Alistair - 2012-05-10 11:12

      @ Muhammad, why then dont you move to the middle east, Im sure there's lots of opportunity for you and your family there. You my friend are reaping the benefits of the culture you abhor. Two main features of how I judge a culture are how they 1) treat their women, and 2) how they treat minorities, needless to say, Islamic countires dont do so well. but hey, thats just my western prejudicial culture's perspective.

      Peter - 2012-05-10 12:08

      For f%ck sakes people ... And this is aimed at all the Christian comments on here ... I am hetero. I am Christian. BUT --- You ALL still believe there are BIG sins and small sins? Homosexuality being a BIG sin in your view and the rest being small? Wake up! Sin is sin, period. The wages of ALL sin is death. Let any of you WITHOUT sin be the first to cast a stone at a sinner. Remember those words? Who cares whether you believe certain of the laws in Leviticus, Exodus and the rest do or do not apply today? Have you transgressed ANY of the laws you should live by as a Christian? Then you must DIE! PERIOD. Only when you understand this, move to the New Testament en receive the message caontained therein. Wake the F@CK UP!

      Trevor - 2012-05-10 16:38

      oh! you mean that deluded murderous dictator from libya? whats your point?

      Odicito - 2012-05-11 11:07

      What did oh bummer do to kurt huffy? I know he screuued oh summer bean lad hen, who was a friend of uu bush. Oh man, but he also screuued sad I'm whose sane.

      Warren - 2012-05-11 11:33

      I believe Obama's gay marriage stance will destroy his chances no matter how right it is. You can bet Romney will have something to say to sway voters. It's unfortunate religion gets pulled into things like this destroying human rights and individual choices. We are truly living in a warped world where freedom and freedom of choice is an absolute myth.

      Peter - 2012-05-11 14:02

      @Tienie --- read much?

      Peter - 2012-05-11 14:04

      @Benn --- so a "swearing Christian" --- even just ONE swear-word every few days --- is also impossible by your definition? Good luck with that.

  • kobus.hattingh.5 - 2012-05-10 07:34

    Hope this gives Romney a great lead! Romney for President!

      TheMark - 2012-05-10 07:43

      Idiot

      kobus.hattingh.5 - 2012-05-10 08:05

      Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Korah. Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Jud 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Jud 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. Jud 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. Jud 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

      zaatheist - 2012-05-10 08:23

      here is no difference between the current homophobes and the christian racist bigots who supported slavery 150 years ago and Apartheid more recently. Christian racists now wish to apply the same discrimination against homosexuals and other people who differ from them. The bigotry and cruelty is identical. “Nothing optional—from homosexuality to adultery—is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting (and exact the fierce punishments) have a repressed desire to participate. As Shakespeare put it in King Lear, the policeman who lashes the whore has a hot need to use her for the very offense for which he plies the lash.” -- Christopher Hitchens

      kobus.hattingh.5 - 2012-05-10 08:28

      Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

      Phae - 2012-05-10 08:33

      Then watch hatred for Americans go up a few notches. He is the epitome of the arrogant, brain washed, intolerant Christian. I understand why he inspires you.

      trevorjkleinhans - 2012-05-10 08:34

      Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them: When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Reply please...

      kobus.hattingh.5 - 2012-05-10 08:42

      Yes Trevor, we dont live under the laws of Moses anymore as they were nailed to the cross. HOWEVER, some laws are eternal and the ones that you do still live under are the ones that is mentioned in the New Testament. Read 1 Corinthians 6:9 onwards and note that these have not fallen away. Also when you read the above verses, you will note that they are still very much applicable. So, you are no longer under the Levitical laws and are therefor permitted to eat anything in thanksgiving, but when it comes to the laws of pertaining to your own body, the law of God stands forever. Also, when a person is truly a Christian, he walks by the Spirit and no longer the flesh. To say that one is a Christian and then approve sin, makes one just a mocker and such a person deceives himself :) Also read:2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished. 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

      trevorjkleinhans - 2012-05-10 08:43

      In case you do not understand the meaning behind my comment kobus.hatting.5....religion needs to change with the times. It cannot adopt change just to suite itself and pick and choose what to allow and what not to allow. Get with it!!!!!! We are in 2012 now not the biblical era!!!

      kobus.hattingh.5 - 2012-05-10 08:45

      Also tell your neighbour to not worry about the Sabbath day either.The NT says do not let anyone judge you in the Sabbath day you keep and the food you in. Sooo, these laws (a contract between God and the Jews of then) was done away with :) - Unfortunately for the flesh wishes, most still stand though :)

      Jason - 2012-05-10 08:47

      Romney is more narrow minded than bloody Bush was. I can't believe that Gay marriage a debate in a first world country that prides itself on freedom. Romney this is the same man that organised mass prayer when the financial crisis started... Really mass prayer how backward can you get.

      trevorjkleinhans - 2012-05-10 08:48

      Exactly what I said...pick and choose what suites you.....very convenient....I ask myself...What are you hiding deep down Kobus? Some pent up sexual fustration maybe?

      adriaan.mostert - 2012-05-10 08:50

      Moron!

      trevorjkleinhans - 2012-05-10 08:51

      I can also go on and on... I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. you are just making my point stronger.....CHANGE WITH THE TIMES....

      sven.gohre - 2012-05-10 09:09

      Kobus h, you are so very wrong, Jesus said that he came not to change a single comma or line of the LAW of Moses, but to fulfil them, see Mathew for the full text. Therefore please answer Trevor as to what he should do to those that are breaking the LAW. It is not possible to "Cherry-pick" the parts of the Bible that you want to observe, it is an all or nothing choice for those that profess to be Christian, either the whole Bible is the "WORD OF GOD", or it is only the writings of Bronze Age goat herders.

      kobus.hattingh.5 - 2012-05-10 09:16

      Peggy, certain Laws were definitely done away with. And not one person is able to live by a written law as you then will find yourself be judged by it. We are living by the law of the Spirit (of God which lives IN us). I am not SDA and dont belief in a works based doctrine I should add. And Jesus is my Sabbath.

      Christo - 2012-05-10 09:49

      Thank you trevorjkleinhans. I was hoping someone would post that.

      rob4e - 2012-05-10 10:28

      HAHAHAHA oh wow. Wait you're being serious? Let me laugh even harder. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      pieter.joubert.9 - 2012-05-10 10:49

      It seems from your comments further below you are very selective on which of god's laws you believe in and follow. Isn't the bible god's word that should be followed to the letter? Typical christian, only holy when it suits you. Come on darling, drag yourself into the 21st century.

      AndrewM74 - 2012-05-10 11:39

      What a fool! Shame Kobus, that you pass judgement when your own bible you swear by frowns upon it. The bible bashing "Christians" are all the same, they'll preach & quote text from a 2000 year old book, but will judge you, stab you in the back, and sin everyday, then repent on Sunday, and all's forgiven! Jesus was JEWISH, he was not a "Christian"... Jesus, would scorn these "Christians" for their very own twisted version of his very principles. But, I particularly love the fact that certain sections of the bible can be "done away with". Go figure! Much like Henry the 8th created the church of England so he could divorce. Point in case; the Christian bible's New Testament was written by man, with certain texts extracted and approved by the popes decades & centuries after Jesus' death. There's proven documentation of texts that have been omitted to suit the big fable of the time, and drive fear and despair into the average person 2000 years ago. A book that has been translated thousands of times, from ancient Hebrew, and based on those "Christian's" perception of the text at that time. Further more, I find it humorous, that the Christian bible has even changed it's versions in modern times. Just reading the King James version has a different meaning to most of the church's self serving requirements of the current times... Go figure!

      AndrewM74 - 2012-05-10 11:46

      Further... Christianity has been the greatest tyranny of all time... A religion hiding behind "the word of God" while they murdered millions of people, stealing their wealth, creating wars, stealing their land, and enforcing the Christian religion... In the name of Jesus, of course! The head of your religion is the wealthiest state in the world, with all the pilfering, plundering & other sinful atrocities, with a bible in one hand, and a sword in the other... On top of it all, one has to wonder about all those priests who molest altar boys... The men of the cloth, that indulge in the sins you speak of, yet they're revered & protected by the very church you subscribe to.

      atholl.hay - 2012-05-10 13:00

      @Kobus Hattingh. Thanks for sprouting all these obscure quotations that were written by a bunch of ignorant peasants in a far away desert a very long time ago. The Bible was not written by God and faxed from heaven. Not only that, but it has been translated and re-translated over the ages to suit people's political agendas and has absolutely no bearing on my life today. Jesus was cool (if he existed at all) and taught love and compassion. People like you could learn a thing or two from him...

      Andrew - 2012-05-10 14:22

      @kobus.....I could quote double the amount of scripture that would 100% contradict the scriptures you quoted. Sadly, you are a very poor witness to what Christianity is all about and what Jesus taught!!

      Denny - 2012-05-10 14:59

      Nah, I don't really see it helping Romney at all. I think whatever he loses from one demographic he will gain back from another. He is elevating the issue which is probably smart. Time will be spent discussing this rather than some areas where he is on shakier ground (economy/wars/etc).

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 00:53

      Kobus can you quote any of Jesus's words from the Bible where he lets us know what he thought of homosexuality? If it's sinful, and a major sin at that, you would think The Son of God would definitely have lots to say about it.

      Christopher - 2012-05-11 08:59

      @Kobus...You remind me of Geller from Dexter. So screwed in the head that he preaches the word of the Lord to justify his evil. Your Lord is fkuced dude.

      jody.beggs - 2012-05-11 11:24

      @trevorjkleinhans Christians are just delusional, the only thing we can do is pity them and make sure they leave future generations alone. Religion belongs at home and in Church. If is the sole reason why homophobia and hatred is so rife and that's the main reason it should be stopped. All this coming from a supposed loving and caring God... Damn the man.

      celia.coates - 2012-05-11 21:58

      North Carolina where you can marry your cousin. Just not your gay cousin :D

      Piesangstaat - 2012-05-12 06:11

      Eat my banana

  • Jason - 2012-05-10 07:38

    GOOD FOR U OBAMA

      antionette.leroux - 2012-05-10 08:32

      O "BUMMA"

  • Jason - 2012-05-10 07:40

    I dont see what the problem with the whole same sex marriage thing is. If two ppl want to get married WTF does it have to do with anyone else? As a male I may not understand the intricacies behind male to male relationships but two hot girls going on at each other is perfectly acceptable :), especially if i get invited.

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2012-05-10 08:41

      1. Amen brudda! Hehe 2. The christians are under the impression a marriage can only be done in a church. If a gay couple has a private ceremony on private ground with a fully consenting MC (be he/she private or "official"), the christians really have no feet to stand on.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 08:57

      Male on male is exactly the same as female on female --- it's about love and attraction. And of course penis ^__^

      TheMark - 2012-05-10 11:34

      Wesley, Rofl...

      Jonathan - 2012-05-11 17:44

      @TheJaydedKink Good point. And of course you don't see the problem, you weren't raised/indoctrinated into a bigoted family that follow the morally reprehensible teachings of a two thousand year old scripture which has nothing further to offer beyond showing how to make good people say and do bad things. With proper education - and decent genetics that don't predispose you to stupidity (synonymous with bigotry)- we can expect to get past the simple basics of human decency.

  • toofaan.monsoon - 2012-05-10 07:40

    With the way that the Human population is growing, is it possible that homosexuality is nature's way of keeping our numbers down ? I mean man's influence has led to a decline in numbers of lots of Gods other creatures, so this could be balancing the books ? I know it may sound like a doff idea, but really - it's still a possibility. It explains why animals are not gay. My personal view is that so long as they do not harm you, let the gays be and they should have the same rights as anyone else.

      Jack - 2012-05-10 07:45

      Good answer, perhaps we should stop finding cures for TB and AIDS, we could knock off a couple of million more, less stop feeding these famine countries and there’s a couple more, tell all these pathetic churches to stop feeding and housing the homeless, Next time there’s a natural disaster like in Japan we shouldn't help so that will cull the human race a bit more.

      toofaan.monsoon - 2012-05-10 08:00

      @ Jack - you actually expand on the point. Only humans find cures for diseases. Only humans find early warning systems. Only humans help each other out across the world to survive. This is a good thing. It's in every species nature to try and overcome adversity and we should continue doing this. But what if we've gotten so good at it that natural intervention may now be needed (for our own eventual good) ? Like I said, I know it may sound doff, but the possibility is still there. BTW - as far as I know, the prevalance of Tsunami's and other natural disasters seem to have picked up in the past decade or so. We cull elephants for their own good when there are too many - what if we're being culled too ?

      Ali - 2012-05-10 08:00

      There is extensive research showing a long list of animals (other than humans) that exhibit homosexual behaviour.

      Jack - 2012-05-10 08:26

      Well the conspiracies point to a mass culling of the human race by the powers that be, I don't know if that’s true or not. But if your suggesting that homosexuality is a way of helping the human race toward extinction and that it's influence is devastating, I would agree with you

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 08:58

      Actually, there are over 1500 documented animal species that show homosexuality... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 08:59

      @tofaan: thank you for saying that we all deserve the same rights :)

      TheMark - 2012-05-10 11:37

      Jack, Hmmmmm, lets try to balance the scales. Straight: Hitler. Stalin, Mao, Ceasar, Pol Pot, Ivan the Terrible, Osama bin Laden, etc etc etc. Amounting to probably far over a billion murders. Gay:....uhm....help please.... Yes, the effect of gay people are miniscule in relation to that of straights. No offence to the levelheaded heterosexuals, but this guy is in a class of his own.

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 01:09

      Toofaan, Homosexuality has been around a lot longer than population stress, it's not a recent enigma. Animals do have plenty of homosexuals. Immune systems have been finding cures for diseases a lot longer than recent human science. Sexual orientation demographics from tolerant countries don't suggest human population growth is in any danger of flatlining because of homosexuality, it probably just seems there are increasing numbers of gay people because the homophobes are facing extinction.

  • Siphiwo - 2012-05-10 07:43

    You cannot stop a moving train...well said. Although, a very thorny issue to most of us, but what can be done? Gay people, are people as well. This poses a challenge to us as well.

  • trevorjkleinhans - 2012-05-10 07:46

    If two people love each other sexual orientation, colour or religion should never stop them being together. It is those that are either full of hate or those that are not secure about their own sexual orientation and religious beliefs that usually oppose gay rights.

  • bridgette.muziri - 2012-05-10 07:47

    i bealive that any human being who recommends dog meat as food has once tested it.My apologies to those who find my comment offensive.

      Gany - 2012-05-10 07:59

      Oh gosh how closed minded are you? Christian I presume?

      zaatheist - 2012-05-10 08:24

      here is no difference between the current homophobes and the christian racist bigots who supported slavery 150 years ago and Apartheid more recently. Christian racists now wish to apply the same discrimination against homosexuals and other people who differ from them. The bigotry and cruelty is identical. “Nothing optional—from homosexuality to adultery—is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting (and exact the fierce punishments) have a repressed desire to participate. As Shakespeare put it in King Lear, the policeman who lashes the whore has a hot need to use her for the very offense for which he plies the lash.” -- Christopher Hitchens

  • malan.nico - 2012-05-10 07:47

    Bold move! Congratulations Mr Obama, it's about time.

  • Gieljam - 2012-05-10 07:53

    America's Rise is now officially over and Fall is long time already in the making .They must start preparing or the wrath they brought onto themselves.

      Ed - 2012-05-10 10:43

      wrath???whos wrath? yours? gods? please tell us whos wrath...ponder that while you pnder old Abraham and his sister getting it on. sorry, his wife...oh wait, they were one and the same. then ponder what the world wil be like in a couple of years time when the new chinese empire rules. aint petty is it...if you have more than 1 kid 'gieljam', youd better get rid of the others. if you love wildlife, be prepared to eat em or sniff em. if you love being able to write on this website, better get rid to give it all up cos that aint happening in 'new china'...go back to dumb skool.

      TheMark - 2012-05-10 11:39

      Wishful thinking Gieljam.

      Gieljam - 2012-05-10 18:16

      Ed for your personal " reply " on me I would like to respond ,you cant fight against the facts your demise ( and all of us for that matter) is also beginning to show , I mean to say you most probably started of Edward ? no rather edith and ended up Ed .

  • Loyiso - 2012-05-10 07:55

    He had to support that because of His interest to lead America for a second term,but deep down in his heart President Obama knows very well that gays and lesbians is just a fashion! ! Vote Obama Vote!

      stuart.steedman - 2012-05-10 10:59

      You do know that homosexuality has been recorded as far back as the Ancient Greeks and Egyptians? And you do know that the animal world also has homosexual tendencies? And you have the nerve to call it a "fashion"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

      TheMark - 2012-05-10 11:39

      Homosexual activity predates homo sapiens.

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 01:14

      Historyphobe

  • jabumalehambolo.fumani - 2012-05-10 07:58

    Viva black president Viva. Chocolate factory is the way.

      raath - 2012-05-10 08:13

      Chocolate factory? Are you for real? Obama is only half black, btw...

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 09:05

      Top deck then... lol

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 01:16

      lol Wesley. Btw where was that shot of the Milky Way on your timeline taken from? It's beautiful.

  • rcameron.blackberry - 2012-05-10 07:58

    I've been reading the comments on this site (and many others) and I cannot STOP laughing at the uninformed and bigoted opinions of so many frankly uneducated individuals (and by uneducated I mean in terms of this specific topic).\r\n\r\nThere is not a SINGLE species in the animal kingdom (excluding of course species that donot need to have sex to reproduce, sea urchins, aphis and naturally hermaphrodidic species) that DOES not exhibit a relatively common predisposition towards bisexual and/or homosexual behaviour.\r\n All this chatter about this behaviour being \unnatural\ and \against God's will\ are frankly ludicrous and uneducated.\r\n\r\nPlease do research a topic before investing so much emotional tension in it as it can only be unhealthy to get so worked up about something one knows nothing about.\r\n If anything I think God would be more concerned with the wasted anger and emotional tension and frankly abuses of the rights of our fellow humans because of this topic, than his/her/it's actual concern for our sexual preferences.\r\n\r\nOh and before anyone feels the \need\ to tell me I \need to find God/religion\ please note I am already a recognised Doctor of Divinity and quite happy with my \relationship\ with the greater powers that be in the universe.

  • Michelle - 2012-05-10 08:08

    Very brave move Obama. I salute you!

      Aaron - 2012-05-10 08:24

      cant stop the time

      Denny - 2012-05-10 14:50

      Not really - the majority of the US is now OK with it. He had painted himself into a bit of a corner (evolving position) so had to settle it. It is no real surprise he came down on the side he did. I doubt it will lose him many votes. At worst I suspect it might spur on some ultra conservatives who would not otherwise voted. (Might do the same for some liberals on the other side too to his benefit).

  • Erna - 2012-05-10 08:09

    3012 - The distinction of the Human Race? How will scientists ever find out - that its due to same sex marriages. NEVER!

      Gareth - 2012-05-10 08:15

      I'm sure you meant extinction of the human race, and we'll die out long before then for other reasons anyway.

      Erna - 2012-05-10 08:27

      Thanks Gareth ;-) Extinction is the word!

      Bongani - 2012-05-10 08:59

      Erna, are gays and lesbians human beings? if the answer is yes, then why should we discuss marriage rights and all of that. If human beings are allowed to marry surely gays form part of that. i think people do not like gays because they have a gay in them. Human rights include gay rights. Get over it

      lydonmcg - 2012-05-10 09:02

      Erna, as long as we have narrow-minded people like you around, there's certainly no danger of us ever becoming extinct due to the reasons you're getting at.

  • justin.vanniekerk - 2012-05-10 08:15

    Seems as tho its mainly the Christians who are up in arms about this announcement. Why does it concern you anyway? What happened to \free Will?\

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2012-05-10 08:51

      Their scared their ministers will be legally "encouraged" to perform marriages in their churches, against their will (which I personally think is wrong. Its like eating bacon at a barmitsva). But I say: if you find a fully consenting minister with a fully consenting congregation , and you really "have to" get married in a church, go for it.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 09:09

      They advocate free will, yet love nothing more than to push their beliefs onto the sinners.

  • Gareth - 2012-05-10 08:18

    If gays and lesbians being allowed to get married bothers you that much you obviuosly have absolutely nothing going on in your life. Let them get married if they want, it's none of your business anyway.

      Denny - 2012-05-10 14:54

      But they will breed out of control and devour us all! Wait a minute ... Leave them alone. Let them get be together and call it whatever they want.

  • kasamkelo - 2012-05-10 08:21

    Whats the ish about gays? After all are people n if they enjoy each other then give them liberty - but be warned i'm armed and will bleksem you if u try ur luck on me :)

      joanne.fairbrother - 2012-05-10 13:28

      I doubt they would want too. Its amusing the way some straight men always assume the gay boys would fancy them.

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 01:23

      Yeah they're the same ones who usually think the lesbians secretly fancy them too lol

  • NeildeWeerdt - 2012-05-10 08:23

    Don’t get me wrong, I agree that they are humans. I personal have Gay friends, However I don’t agree with their lifestyle. They personally will have to answer to GOD one day. and I have to answer to things I’ve done in my life, the reason for my disagreeing of their lifestyle is stated in the bible. (Leviticus 18:22) 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.. (Romans 1:26-27) 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. Then again we should also take it from a person that said he is a Christian however mocks the Christian faith in a video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-V_ilJu0w

      zaatheist - 2012-05-10 08:25

      When some religious people want to use ancient texts to justify acting upon their prejudices, citing the book of Leviticus suits them just fine. On the other hand, when such people want to indulge in practices prohibited by those same ancient texts, ignoring the bible suits them just fine. For example, Leviticus. Particularly the bit about no tattoos. It's amusing stuff. I frequently wonder why, among the many rules and prescriptions therein, Christians don't sacrifice oxen or go to the "priest" to be inspected for "white marks". It's all there, right next to the warning regarding the abomination of homosexuality

      zaatheist - 2012-05-10 08:29

      " I personal (sic) have Gay friends" sounds just too much like "Some of my best friends are Jews". So what about the shellfish and the cloth of mixed fibres then? You have created a god in your own image and assigned your prejudice to that god, creating a god that shares your prejudice and who, then, sanctions and defends the unjustified harms that bigots like you would cause to "those who are different."

      Adele - 2012-05-10 08:45

      @NeildeWeerdt. You are going to have to personally answer to God one day for working on the sabbath, wearing fabric blends, tattoos, rounds haircuts and birth control.

      NeildeWeerdt - 2012-05-10 08:49

      @Zaatheist As I Said. I don’t agree with their lifestyle, I don’t judge them, I only stated what the bible said, I personal believe that all words in the bible are spoken by GOD. Therefor I personal believe that the bible is true, I’m not a pastor there for I cannot prove my opinion , and disprove your opinion I do have Jews as friends, and Muslims and … yes even atheist The bible also said love your neighbour in Mark 12:30-31 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: You shall love your neighbour as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these There for I have not created a god in my own image.

      NeildeWeerdt - 2012-05-10 08:54

      @Adele I did say. "and I have to answer to things I’ve done in my life,” I also have to answer about the fact that. 1. I’m a sinner 2. I’m a thief 3. I’m a adulator However there is still one thing that counts for me. I know I’m a sinner, I know I’m not worthy to be going to heaven, I asked for forgiveness from GOD as I’m not perfect and a cannot keep GODS law. and that’s why JESUS died for us,

      Adele - 2012-05-10 08:55

      Don't get me wrong, I agree that people who work on the sabbath are humans. I have many sabbath working friends. However I don't agree with their lifestyle. They personally will have to answer to God one day. The reason for my disagreeing of their lifestyle is stated in the bible. (Exodus 20:10) But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. (Exodus 31:12-15) Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.'

      NeildeWeerdt - 2012-05-10 09:00

      Matthew 12:9-12 9 Now when He had departed from there, He went into their synagogue.10 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?that they might accuse Him.11 Then He said to them, What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out?12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.13 Then He said to the man, Stretch out your hand. And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other.

      Adele - 2012-05-10 09:15

      @NeildeWeerdt. You're a thief?!? That is a lot worse than being gay.

      NeildeWeerdt - 2012-05-10 09:22

      @Adele Yes I am, as I’m busy stealing work time to surf the internet, When I was young I stole a sweet. I’ve downloaded music / movies / software from the internet. So yes I Am

      Ed - 2012-05-10 10:50

      shoh, spot the irony! you say you dont judge them, but your god does??? yet you beloieve in your god and what he tells you to believe. so...you telling me that you still dont actually judge? BULLSHT. dude, you are one confused person. before picking and choosing very selective bits from the bible, try and live each and every day by the bible. i am sure that you dont...so if you doint, what is wrong with having resoect for other people and their ishes or desires? if they are not harming anyone, what wrong is there? there is more wrong in all those old testament guys marrying their cousins and sisters (yes they did so dont argue taht thy didnt) like abraham, moses...the list is endless. what of all of the old bible guys owning slaves??? do you think thats ok??? get real dude.

      trevorjkleinhans - 2012-05-10 11:01

      Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them: When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? So now what

      NeildeWeerdt - 2012-05-10 11:22

      @Ed.. I’ve never said that I’m Judging them. I said I don’t agree with their life style. As you don’t agree with my life style about being a Christian, I don’t see it that you are Judging me.. I’m only sharing what the bible said about the topic. And yes I did say GOD will Judge (Ecclesiastes 3:17) I said to myself, "In due season God will judge everyone, both good and bad, for all their deeds." (Romans 2:16) And this is the message I proclaim--that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone's secret life. I know what I want in life, I believe in what the bible say. How can you say I’m confused.? You loosing focus on what the topic is all about. The topic is about homosexuality. How can I then pick a verse about you should not steal. Or you should not murder. so YES I do pick verse.

      NeildeWeerdt - 2012-05-10 11:22

      Regarding your quote about living each day by the bible. No I don’t, as I’m human. I am not perfect. I do sin every min, every day. And I will be doing it till the day I die Regarding respect for other people desires. I’ve said I have gay friends. I got lots of respect for them.. I don’t have to agree with everything they believe. The same way you don’t have to believe in everything I believe. On the other hand. Let’s say a man that desire raping young girls. Should I still have respect for him. Should I ignore him as it’s his desire, or should I tell him that it’s not right. As a human I don’t respect him. I do judge him. However I know in my hard that I’m doing wrong. I’m not going to argue about marrying brothers and sisters in the bible.

      NeildeWeerdt - 2012-05-10 12:23

      @Peter I Agree with you, However I never said anything about bigger and smaller sins if you read all the comments you will notice that I’ve said I’m a sinner and I to have to answer to my sins

      Peter - 2012-05-10 12:53

      @NeildeWeerdt --- My comment was not aimed at you specifically, but at Christian commentary in general. I saw your words, and take them at face-value. My problem lies with all the bigotry of the Christian commentators on here. And the fact that they do not even realise the bigotry they are spewing forth.

      joanne.fairbrother - 2012-05-10 13:30

      Oh, you agree that we actually are humans... that's a good start. Hats off to your for your shining display of tolerance and compassion.

      Adele - 2012-05-10 14:26

      @NeildeWeerdt I don't think it is particularly fair that you are disagreeing with their lifestyle when yours is clearly riddled with sin. It is far easier to sin and ask for forgiveness than not to sin in the first place. Try not sin so much. I highly doubt any gay person would consider you a friend with that kind of condescending attitude.

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 01:27

      Neilde, Where is the scripture showing that Jesus disagreed with homosexuality? I mean it's a major sin, he must have said something.

  • Eric - 2012-05-10 08:24

    By telling people you are "GAY" it means that you have a complex about who you are. why not just live your life. I do not go around saying that I am a Hetrosexual. Then people talk about the gay community, Jewish Community etc etc. Whats next? Dog Community?

      Amanda - 2012-05-10 09:14

      JA U RIGHT

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 11:22

      Actually you do, when you hold your gf's hand, kiss in public. Why should we hide who we are just because certain people don't like it?

  • Alberto - 2012-05-10 08:24

    "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged..." "First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see clearly how to remove the splinter from your brother's eye" Enough said...

      zaatheist - 2012-05-10 08:26

      Exactly

      kobus.hattingh.5 - 2012-05-10 08:32

      Dont just quote on verse, read the verses above and below that one also. It talks about RIGHTEOUS judgement which one MUST do. And also go read Ezekiel 3 concerning the watchman :)

      trevorjkleinhans - 2012-05-10 11:15

      Oh my word kobus.hattingh.5...are you starting here again, coz you lost the last conversation above.....get with it....Religion is outdated and a dying breed....you believe in a book written 2000 years ago that has no proof whatsoever. I must listen to someone that believes that Adam & Eve just arrived here from nowhere, that Mary JUST got pregnant from your so called god above....get with it....you are the laughing stock of the barrel.

  • shubnam.patel - 2012-05-10 08:25

    Woahh, do you actually get gay pastors.....truely shocked...homosexuality is a sin against god...and on top of it there are actually gay pastors... That is totally sickening...and for obama to that, that is just very very unprofessional of him to do since his a president.

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-05-10 08:49

      Yes you do get gay pastors as much as you get homophobes and bigots such as yourself.

      Peter - 2012-05-11 14:11

      @shubnam.patel .... so you think pastors / mufti's / etc etc etc are completely without sin? Hmmmmmmmm ..... interesting.

  • Andre - 2012-05-10 08:25

    \...Pastor Charles Bargaineer of the LARGELY BLACK New Fellowship Church of God in the Orlando suburb of Winter Park, Florida...\\r\n\r\nWhat relevance could the colour of the congregation possibly bear on this story?!?!

      Gareth - 2012-05-10 08:28

      News24 lives for the race wars

      Ever - 2012-05-11 11:36

      Garth, it is relevant in terms of the presidential election-don't accuse News24 of racism. The black voting block in the USA is significant to both sides. If Obama alienates a lot of them by his new-found stance on gay marriage he could lose votes and that could impact the election.

  • Ian - 2012-05-10 08:32

    It is amazing how the so called christians react to this. In christian community there is a lot of adultery and there was also then. There were also men sleeping with other men. Jesus did sleep (have sexual intercourse) with his followers. There is nothing wrong with that. Leave gay people alone. Let marry each other if they want. Jesus was bonking men, period.

      cdwilson3 - 2012-05-10 08:40

      Where do you get Jesus was having sexual relations with men. Please show me as I can't find it in my bible. Perhaps I am just another illiterate christian that has missed this scripture, so please back your statement up with facts from scripture.

      Louis - 2012-05-10 08:40

      The comments you make regarding Christianity are what fuels Christians to react with more condemnation towards this topic. Horrible comment. What is worse is that I'm Christian and have gay friends - I would never comment on them in such a rude and disrespectful way even though I don't agree with their lifestyle. You are the kind of person who leads to Christians like me changing my attitude towards gay people. There have always been adulterers, etc. - doesn't mean we have to follow in their ways.

      Phae - 2012-05-10 08:50

      Stupid insulting comment, but no more than the stuff Christians make up every day. Christians you have to expect this kind of response to your relentless judgement and idiotic selective interpritation.

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-05-10 08:52

      I resent your comment Ian. I think that Jesus was bonking Mary Magdalene, the hooker. Are you calling our Lord a bisexual?

      sven.gohre - 2012-05-10 09:26

      Vernon, as Jesus actually married Mary Magdalene and had a child, I somehow doubt she was a prostitute. Only one of the four Gospels included in the Cannon of the Bible calls her that and the author hated women as can be seen if one reads all the texts that were included from his writings. In fact the Gospel according to Mary Magdalene was one of the gospels that was excluded from the Christian Bible as according to the founders of the Roman Catholic Church, her version would confuse the converts.

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-05-10 09:48

      Thanks for the clarification Peggy. Although it just opens up another can of worms about this so-called righteous religion. That is merely another intepretation, is it not. Mainstream christians would burn you at the stake for your views. In any event, it always makes for fascinating argument, debate, discussion and jokes. Just sickens me that influential people in powerful positions use religion to justify important decisions that affect us all, when the bible could just as well be another chapter in Grimms fairy tales.

      atholl.hay - 2012-05-10 14:15

      Oops PeggySven, now we're quoting The DaVinci Code! Oh well, it's just as fictitious as the other much-quoted book in this discussion....

      jody.beggs - 2012-05-11 11:10

      @atholl.hay so you are saying the Jesus never had sex , where does it say that in the Bible ? What happened when Jesus went to India , did he not smoke weed like the rest of the Indian holy people ? Remember Jesus could sin like a man and be a God at the same time , so why not fornicate ? Damn the man...

      sven.gohre - 2012-05-12 00:20

      attholl.hay I am not quoting the De Vinci Code, I am in fact quoting from a vast range of Religious history books that have been written by scholars over the centuries, most of the authors were burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church for doing so. The easiest of these books to get hold of is a rather modern one called the "The Bloodline of the Holy Grail". I cannot remember the authors name, but get a copy and read what the R.C.C. does not want you to know about.

  • Andre - 2012-05-10 08:33

    Being gay is not for us to judge. However, Bible believing Christians cannot condone the deed. Muslims neither. Sex was created to procreate. gays do not procreate. What they do is unnatural. It is written!

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-05-10 08:45

      So fantascising and masturbation are sinful as well? Gosh everyone is going to hell then!

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2012-05-10 09:20

      Read up about a guy in the bible called Onan.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 11:27

      And the 1500 animal species that have homosexual relations? They are unnatural too? Shame, the poor animals would all end up in hell then, if the place even existed. Luckily for us gays, your fairytale afterlife venue's are a load of bull.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 11:31

      @BlueRaven: that's why his point of view is so skewed; he only has sex when he needs a child. Shame, he must have some hectic blue balls lol

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 01:40

      So you haven't heard of artificial insemination Andre? Bible, dark ages, possible connection?

      jody.beggs - 2012-05-11 11:28

      @Andre so you had sex just to have Children, really..... And pleasurable sex , i.e. on the pill or using condom , between a married couple is unnatural? Dude shame , I feel for your wife and can see by your example , that we evolved from apes. Damn the man.

  • janalbert.vandenberg - 2012-05-10 08:33

    When things like this happen it makes me think there really might actually be a God! When we abolish slavery DESPITE ancient rules, when we recognise the LOVE that people share, regardless of who they are DESPITE the ancient rules, maybe there *is* a plan for mankind (a Logos)? If WE can change, who are WE to say God cannot?

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2012-05-10 09:22

      But QF, what is your stance on voluntary slavery? Its rare, but it happens.

      janalbert.vandenberg - 2012-05-10 15:26

      @ SarcasticAgnostic: I have literally no stance as yet. My gut feeling is that I don't like the idea, but it is also not my place to tell someone that voluntarily becomes a slave, that they may not. I can't imagine that I would ever submit myself to becoming a slave, but then I will also not tell someone else that they may not choose to do so. Maybe the "slave" likes to take on a submissive role? (Now I'm just being crass :-D )

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2012-05-11 09:03

      Fair enough. (Lol bdsm)

  • Sanele Kratos Fulele - 2012-05-10 08:34

    News 24, always reports the same isht! race issues, rape and corruption...

  • Glenview - 2012-05-10 08:34

    i don't think this guy will be reelected again , he will be the first one term president in America , he is useless , period !!!

      John - 2012-05-10 08:39

      There have been plenty of one-term presidents in America. Most recently George H W Bush

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2012-05-10 09:24

      What's wrong with a gay friendly black president? Before him they had a mentally handicapped one.

      sven.gohre - 2012-05-10 09:28

      John, Bush and his father had two terms.

      John - 2012-05-10 09:35

      Peggy I'm sure George H. W. Bush (Aka Bush senior) only served one term from 1989 to 1993. Google it if you want

  • cdwilson3 - 2012-05-10 08:36

    If he supports gay marriage then why did he fire his gay political adviser a couple of weeks back or is this just more political chess being played? He stands to lose more than he will gain by his stance, and it won't be just votes.

      Adele - 2012-05-10 11:21

      Maybe, just maybe he was fired not because he is gay but because he was doing a sh%t job.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 11:33

      I like Obama, but i'm not sure if his support for gay marriage is just to gain the pink vote. And THAT would be wrong.

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 01:47

      That was Romney cdwilson3, not Obama. http://newarkpress.info/resignation-of-gay-romney-advisor-exposes-gop-enthusiasm-for-hate-and-backfires-on-campaign/

      jody.beggs - 2012-05-11 11:31

      Google is your friend...

  • Jean - 2012-05-10 08:38

    I curse you Obama! I will never ever trust you, you hypocrite, how dare are yoo? because of human satisfaçtion? Î CURSE YOU OBAMA! hope u lose the polls, am a happy Kenyan- married to ma wife for 26yrs, and i took you as ma brother- now look, look at you! hell awaits you

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-05-10 08:40

      Get a grip. Live and let live, will you?

      Philimsomi - 2012-05-10 09:25

      really now, how old are you!!!

      Phae - 2012-05-10 09:31

      You're already in hell, you have to live with yourself, idiot hate mongerer.

      IMHO - 2012-05-10 10:01

      I like comments like this, because you finally get to see the true ugly face of religious dogma.

      mbossenger - 2012-05-10 11:04

      I'm sure Obama is $hitting m=himself now that Jean has cursed him...

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 11:34

      No Jean, if hell existed, it would be waiting for YOU!!! For being such a hypocritical bigot

      jody.beggs - 2012-05-11 11:32

      True Christian comment , well done...

  • Dawie - 2012-05-10 08:41

    I am truly sad, I really liked Obama and his views on certain things. But one man and one women is the best foundation for any family. I cannot see a gay marriage provide what is needed, since they are unable to even start a family without adopting or the laboratory. I imagine a world where gay marriage is the norm, and it is not a happy place.

      Gareth - 2012-05-10 08:46

      I'm sure those orphans are much happier in a poor, cramped, over-filled orphanages anyway.

      IMHO - 2012-05-10 08:59

      //But one man and one women is the best foundation for any family// according to you. Because its what YOU think, must everyone abide by it? //I cannot see a gay marriage provide what is needed, since they are unable to even start a family without adopting// Have you done any studies into the functionality of gay marriages? And whats so wrong with adoption - surely we need more adoptions not less. Can people only marry if they intend to have kids? Tell you what, if you get to decide whats best for gays in terms of family dynamics, can they decide whats best for you in terms of your finances?

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 01:52

      Love is the best foundation for any family Dawie.

  • damonsb - 2012-05-10 08:41

    Wots next..Paedophiles has the right to marry little boys?This world has gone crazy

      IMHO - 2012-05-10 08:52

      Are you even sane? surely you can see the difference between a paedophile forcing themselves on a minor, and two consenting adults commiting to each other in marriage? Wouldn't it be fun if the gay community became the majority and decided to impose their morailty on us by outlawing opposite-sex marriage, I would love to see you squirm.

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2012-05-10 09:27

      I see... Catholic support for pedophilic marriages.

  • wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 08:48

    These conservative Americans really piss me off. What has my relationship got to do with you or your fairytale god? Who cares what some imaginary man says. And don't get me started on that pathetic book. All it does is give a few good tips, the rest is just evil, hateful bigotry. We are all born equal, we ARE all equal, therefore we ALL should have equal human rights. F**k you if my gayness makes you uncomfortable. That's not my problem. If god had to exist, he would be very disgusted in the behaviour of his followers.

      cdwilson3 - 2012-05-10 08:57

      I will pray for you. God loves you and doesn't want you to die in sin.

      Adele - 2012-05-10 10:46

      @cdwilson3 - I will pray for you for working on the sabbath, wearing fabric blends, tattoos, rounds haircuts, eating ham sandwiches, not killing children who curse their parents and using birth control. Oh and make sure your wife / girlfriend doesn't speak in the house of God.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 11:43

      No thanks, i don't need your conversation with an imaginary person. Don't waste your time.

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 01:57

      cd, where does Jesus say homosexuality is a sin?

  • IMHO - 2012-05-10 08:48

    I hate it when people force their morals on others. How is it in this day and age that we expect others to abide by our own religious beliefs? Keep your dogma to yourself. Well done Obama !

  • pkheswa - 2012-05-10 08:49

    Stupid way to try and woo the public.

  • adriaan.mostert - 2012-05-10 08:50

    Obama Rocks!!!

  • Wendy - 2012-05-10 08:50

    I am Constantly bewildered by the response of certain Christians to this debate. If anyone should show compassion, kindness, forgiveness, and refrain from selective judgement, surely this is what your Christ would do? Come on people, we know in this day and age that homosexuality is not a choice - it is determined in the womb. And, if you want to whip out your Bible as your justification for being please see http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html.

      dmaarman1 - 2012-05-10 08:59

      Christ would have said its wrong

      cdwilson3 - 2012-05-10 09:03

      Sodom and Gommorah. I rest my case.

      John - 2012-05-10 09:06

      Then just as well Christ didn't exist

      Wendy - 2012-05-10 09:18

      @dmaarman - think carefully next time you tuck into some bacon. What would Christ have done?

      TheMark - 2012-05-10 11:47

      cdwilson, It's best you rest your case immediately. You are flaunting your ignorance here.

      Dakey - 2012-05-10 20:16

      @Wendy: "Come on people, we know in this day and age that homosexuality is not a choice - it is determined in the womb" So its not the 'gay gene' anymore? Ah the womb! One would think a couple of million years of evolution would expel any animal with a propensity for producing offspring that won't procreate with the opposite sex. Weird though how many gay men there are in prison though Wendy, homosexuality being so rife and all these. Womb again huh or what perhaps choice?

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 02:00

      dmaarman1, //Christ would have said its wrong// Christ didn't say it was wrong despite being perfectly acceptable in the Roman Empire. If it's such a major sin why didn't he say anything?

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 02:09

      Dakeyras you've answered your own question. //One would think a couple of million years of evolution would expel any animal with a propensity for producing offspring that won't procreate with the opposite sex.// So millions of years of Evolution would have expelled homosexuality if it was such a big threat to survival. It didn't because it's not.

      Dakey - 2012-05-11 14:52

      @ Sunshine: Christ didn't say it was wrong despite being perfectly acceptable in the Roman Empire. Christ wasn't Roman. Homosexuality was an abomination among the Jews. It's like saying stealing is okay, because Jesus didn't say anything about it in the NT. That said, you are also wrong because Christ did address some sins, including homosexuality. "So millions of years of Evolution would have expelled homosexuality if it was such a big threat to survival." 'Threat to survival', what? There have been numerous cultures that have embraced homosexuality There have been many societies where homosexual relationships were socially encouraged, particularly in the military, ancient Greece a prime example. Men would take on younger boys as their lovers only to marry woman when they leave the army. There is zero, no, niks proof that anyone is 'born' gay either because of of genetics or any 'in the womb' factor and claims of '10% of all population across cultures is gay' is rubbish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation Yet, we have numerous historical examples where social factors play a large role in sexuality. People (like animals) are drawn to sex. In cats (just one example) male cats will submit themselves to more dominant cats. There is nothing genetic or hormonal about it at all. Put a lot of aggressive men in prison, what happens to the weaker prisoner?

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 18:27

      Dakeyras, I'm well aware Christ wasn't Roman. The point is that as someone who lived in the Roman Empire he would have been well aware of homosexuality. If he thought it was the major sin that some Christians say it is, Jesus would almost certainly have had something to say about it. It's a glaringly obvious ommission that he was silent. Stealing is a great example of Jesus giving his opinion: Matthew 19:18. Evolution - sounds like we agree that homosexuality is an acceptable consequence of Evolution provided there are a majority of breeders to create the next generation, and that includes the next generation of homosexuals. Which leads to your incomplete Biology statement that 'There is zero, no, niks proof that anyone is 'born' gay either because of of genetics or any 'in the womb' factor' I agree that research for a biological explanation for the creation of homosexual offspring has so far eluded modern medical understanding. What has not gone undetected are predictable physiological differences between homo and heterosexual individuals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation Prison makes for a good comparative microcosm of society at large? Whatever.

      Dakey - 2012-05-12 21:50

      1 Corinthians 6:9 [9] Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders [10] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. Sunshine "sounds like we agree that homosexuality is an acceptable consequence of Evolution" Urm, no we don't. Any genetic factor which causes an individual to spurn an opportunity to spread his/her genetic material by rejecting the opposite sex or for that matter produce offspring which spurn an opportunity to spread his/her genetic material by rejecting the opposite sex... would be a clear genetic disadvantage. We're not talking about individuals that don't mind having sex with either male or female, but individuals that clearly reject the opposite sex. Tell me, why do we find those that were abused as children more likely to abuse children when they grow up? Genetics or social factors? Odd how every known sexual disorder can be attributed to social upbringing except homosexuality? Sunshine "Prison makes for a good comparative microcosm of society at large? Whatever." Prison is the perfect social experiment. Remove the option of heterosexual intercourse from the menu, add a pinch of hardened criminals and lock them up in Confinement... what do you get?

  • pkheswa - 2012-05-10 08:52

    Stupid way to try and woo the public for votes

      Adele - 2012-05-10 14:52

      Since about 75% of Americans consider themselves Christian. I highly doubt he is trying to woo the public for votes... maybe he is one of the few that actually respects humans rights

  • Jacqueline - 2012-05-10 08:58

    He really put himself out there. I admire him. Wish I could vote for him

      Dakey - 2012-05-10 09:13

      He did not 'put himself out there' Jacquiline. Both he and the vice president changed their public stance on gay marriage six months before the next election to match the swing in general public opinion in the US on gay marriage. He would have 'put himself out there' if six months before a general election he held a stance which disagreed with 60% of the population.

  • lydonmcg - 2012-05-10 09:00

    I continue to find it sad yet amusing how people are so concerned with the lives of others. Gay marriage is really no one's business but that of the two people involved. People need to rid themselves of their over-inflated senses of self-importance and do something constructive with their time. Especially many Christians. Because if they think that their hateful comments are remotely making Christianity more attractive to non-Christians, well...they're deluded.

      Dakey - 2012-05-10 09:18

      lydon @"Gay marriage is really no one's business but that of the two people involved." If it only affected the two people involved sure, it doesn't. It also involves the children they subsequently often wish to adopt. Oh and yes, it would be illegal for an adoption agency to give preference to a heterosexual couple over a homosexual couple when it comes to providing a child a new home. I'm not arguing whether it is better for a child who might have lost his parents to get a new mother and father or two mommies, or two daddies, I'd like to thing that is pretty obvious, but let's just make it clear that there are significant repercussions from allowing gay marriage.

      Dakey - 2012-05-10 11:20

      @Blueraven, I discussed it in my opening paragraph, urm adoption. If that's not obvious, I highly doubt enlightening you will be achievable.

      TheMark - 2012-05-10 11:49

      Dakeras, Earning money is not a problem, yes. But the procurement of drugs, porn and booze that often follows is a proble. SO LET'S BAN THE EARNING OF MONEY! VIVA DAKEYRAS! Idiot.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 11:51

      Too true Lydon. 90% of religious people are delusional and in their own little world. What I do in MY private life is MY business. How hypocritical that heterosexuals can have marriage (and protection/benefits by law thereof), yet gay people are not? What about us is it that makes us unworthy of this basic, fundamental human right?

      Dakey - 2012-05-10 12:43

      @Wesley: "What I do in MY private life is MY business" What about when your private life involves adopting someone else's child Wesley, still just YOUR business?

      Carlos - 2012-05-10 13:35

      @Dak... Please provide me with scientific peer reviewed studies that proves that same sex parents are more harmful to adopted kids. I have a heterosexual friend that has two men as parents. They are one the most balanced, loving families I've ever seen!

      Dakey - 2012-05-10 14:56

      @Carlos Carols, Please provide me a peer reviewed article that proves your friend with the two dads is "one the most balanced, loving families I've ever seen". Curious, considering being gay is in no way more harmfull to a child than being straight (or is it?) I assume you fall in the category that does not consider it harmfull if gay parents were more likely to raise gay children, right, ignoring of course of the high rate of depression amongst gay men.

      Adele - 2012-05-10 14:57

      @Dak... if there is any truth in your reasoning then they should also ban divorce if the couple has children.

      Dakey - 2012-05-10 16:07

      @Adele Unfortunitely there are no guarantees in life, but adoption agencies favour couples they feel are stable and secure. I know of a couple that otherwise probably would have divorced had they not felt the obligation to remain married, not because of their genetic childen, but rather their adopted children. They took that responsibility quite seriously. Life is tough enough for divorced children, but even more so for children having to endure ridicule by their classmates for having 2 dads or 2 moms. As much as we like to protect these kids from this type of abuse, it plays out in many areas of development. Heck protecting our own kids from ridicule for being fat, having red hair or not being clever is difficult enough.

      Adele - 2012-05-10 17:54

      @Dakeyras. Children are faced with all sorts of family situations these days. Single moms, single dads, being raised by foster parents, by their grandmothers, cousins, siblings... It's not about who brings them up but how they are brought up. Singling out gay couples as bad parents is completely unfair and if a stable gay couple can provide a loving, stable home to a child who would otherwise face a life as an orphan... why the hell not?

      Dakey - 2012-05-10 20:36

      @Adele I'm not claiming a gay man cannot be a good parent, same applies for a cousin, grandmother, sister ect. They can't however provide an optimal upbringing. Can I fulfill the role of my wife, even if there were two of me? Goodness no! For the first 6/7 years of a boys life all they want is mommy when they're unhappy... and this from a work from home dad that spends a lot of time with his kids. If you were to try and find the optimal people to adopt a child, you should try to recreate the most natural family unit for raising a child, namely a father and a mother in a stable, monogamous relationship, preferably some siblings too. The problem with gay marriage is that immediately it becomes 'discrimination' to give preference to a heterosexual couple instead of a homosexual couple. If marriage grants the same rights to homosexuals, it will immediately become illegal for an adoption agency to give preference to a heterosexual couple. If you die tomorrow and your child needs to be adopted, would you really not prefer it to have a mother and a father?

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 02:42

      Dakeyras, If adopted children with same-sex parents face ridicule from other kids it's the other kids who need to be educated that homophobia is wrong. It's the same as if a kid faces racism in school. You don't stop the race from raising kids, you stop the other kids from being racist.

      jody.beggs - 2012-05-11 11:57

      @Sunshine good point , but what I don't get is why Christians don't follow the way Christ would have handled the situation , with tolerance. Instead they want to stone the Gay or atheist! Have all Christians lost there faith that God can do anything ? Why does he need Dakeyras to stick up for what he says is Truth and fair ? Damn the man.

      Dakey - 2012-05-11 15:20

      @Sunshine : "If adopted children with same-sex parents face ridicule from other kids it's the other kids who need to be educated that homophobia is wrong." Homophobia? Kids don't know what two daddies do, they just know Jimmy doesn't have a mommy. Jimmy himself doesn't know what his daddies do, he just knows he doesn't have a mommy. No-one even needs to make fun of him, he'll simply grow up knowing all the other kids had mommies, but he didn't. Is it really fair for a child to grow up never knowing what its like not having a mother/father? Heck, each and every school stuggles with bullying. My dauther refuses to take a 'Lighting McQueen' drinking bottle to school because the kids teased her one day about it... its just sadly kids, they can scar for life. The thing is Sunshine, when you love your kids, truely love your kids, you want what's best for then, not what's best for you. Harsh words I know, but true. @Jody: 'Instead they want to stone the Gay or atheist!' Jody, what you do in your own time is entirely you business. Please don't pretend Christians are persecuting you or stoning you. The most persecuted group of people on this planet is currently Christians living in places where practising or discussing their faith is not allowed. When however your choices include the life of a child that's not yours to begin with, then yes it becomes public concern.

      Mark - 2012-05-11 15:59

      Dakeyras, I fully agree about the children. The problem is, change is necessary. So how do we go about implementing this change? What do you propose?

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 20:04

      Dakeyras, Kids don't know what homophobia is? They quickly learn when they encounter views such as yours. And yes, most kids don't know what their parents really get up to in the bedroom, same-sex or not. Either way there's nothing wrong with it. What's your point? Children with one parent alive get along just fine. How is having two parents a step backwards? You talk about what's fair and what's not fair for kids. It's notable that you omit from your judgment the single most important thing in every child's life, to know they are loved by their family no matter what a bully or indeed life may throw at them. The sexual orientation of their family members does not diminish that love. What next Dakeyras? Is a lesbian unable to love her sister the way a straight sister would? So why not her children? //The thing is Sunshine, when you love your kids, truely love your kids, you want what's best for then, not what's best for you.// True, and what's best for them is to love them for who they are, even if they're born homosexual. Despite everything you've said you've yet to show why a homosexual parent is less capable of loving their kids, because you can't. You arrogantly lecture about 'optimal upbringing' and 'optimal people to adopt'. Tell us Dakeyras, tell every parent on this forum what it is you've ever done in your life to put yourself in a position to cast judgment over whose parenting is better than any other.

      Dakey - 2012-05-12 22:02

      @Sunshine: "Kids don't know what homophobia is? They quickly learn when they encounter views such as yours." LOL. I happen to be the parent the encourages my 5 year old to play with the kid who has two mommies at our school, because she doesn't have too many other friends. My parent best friends were two gay men. They never spoke a negative word about them. My best friend in uni was gay, an I kept that friendship despite negative affiliations of befriending him. @Sunshine: "Despite everything you've said you've yet to show why a homosexual parent is less capable of loving their kids, because you can't." When did I claim this? I claim that a male/male or female/female parent combination is unable to privide the same parenting (not love, parenting) as a male/female parental combination. If a single dad/mom wants to raise a child I'd have the same objections. What's I'd suggest is actually reading a number of parenting books written by child psychologists and then convince me that a father/mother is not a major player in a child's upbringing.

  • Dakey - 2012-05-10 09:08

    "But some conservative Christians who cite the Bible in opposing gay marriage..." I can only chuckle at such statements. You're either a Christian (by definition a 'follower of Christ') or you're not. You can't be a vegan who likes the occasional egg or biljong, the two just don't mix. At best you can argue over some interpretations of scriptures (as many Christians do), but both the Old and New testaments are fortunitely very clear on the issue of homosexual relationships. Don't like it, don't be a Christian, simple. Obama is a fake (as are most politicians including Romney). He had a look at the latest statistics regarding the number of people were pro gay marriage in the USA and realised he would have a better chance winning if he supported it. Boring and predictable. I haven't really had a big issue with Obama before, even preferred him to Romney, but after today, I have zero respect for the man.

      cdwilson3 - 2012-05-10 09:16

      Amen. Well put

      tortart - 2012-05-10 10:32

      Nobody has considered that Obama - clever man that he is - is using this issue to distract Romney - of that, until recently polygamous, religion - from econmic issues. We all know that the Mormon god blessed him with quite a few shekels, so he is an expert on helping the poor and other things financial. The Christian god only gave Obama a good brain (and I suppose a good wife) so he has to use what he has. Hence the the clever move to distract the bigots - who don't like clever black men anyway. Also - Rush Limbaugh says that "Obama has declared war on marriage" - one has wonder what his 1st three Christian wifes have to say about this. Maybe he is a secret oldstyle Mormon

      Dakey - 2012-05-10 11:27

      @tortort: "Also - Rush Limbaugh says that "Obama has declared war on marriage" - one has wonder what his 1st three Christian wifes have to say about this. Maybe he is a secret oldstyle Mormon " Politicians in general, certainly in the US, are mostly all fake, certainly the ones that make the spotlight. Newt Gingrich was running for the evangelical vote, despite also being on his 3rd marriage and according to his 2nd wife, wanted an open marriage. Romney's history of being pro,anti,pro,anti abortion is legandary. One of the biggest criticisms of Romney was that he was too much like Obama. In fact up until today, many felt Obama was more socially conservative than Romney, which didn't serve Romney too well. I have to say I have to question Obama's strategy here, because in one day he has firmly put the conservatives on Romney's side. Then again these things aren't miscalculated, so I can only assume he knows what he's doing.

      TheMark - 2012-05-10 12:43

      Dakeyras, Ignorant fool. Do you abide all 613 laws in the OT?

      Dakey - 2012-05-10 15:00

      @TheMark: "Ignorant fool. Do you abide all 613 laws in the OT? " As I'm not an Isrealite living 4,000 or so years ago, no. Do you? For your benefit I'll quote my original post: 'both the Old and New testaments are fortunitely very clear on the issue of homosexual relationships'

      Sunshine - 2012-05-11 02:19

      Strange then that Jesus had nothing to say about it.

      TheMark - 2012-05-11 10:44

      Dakeyras, Very well. I apologise for the ad hominem there. About your quote. SO you denounce everything that is not reinforced in the NT? Do you see the Bible as the Word of God?

      jody.beggs - 2012-05-11 12:02

      @Dakeyras "I can only chuckle at such statements. You're either a Christian (by definition a 'follower of Christ') or you're not. You can't be a vegan who likes the occasional egg or biljong, the two just don't mix. " That's like saying repentance is a sin. As a vegan your can't eat meat , just as a Christian can't sin , but you do then repent... Damn the man.

      Dakey - 2012-05-11 16:35

      @TheMark: "About your quote. SO you denounce everything that is not reinforced in the NT? Do you see the Bible as the Word of God?" Why would I denounce everything not explicity reinforced in the NT? The vast majority of sexual laws were there for a reason and there is nothing in the NT that suggests these should change any time soon. May I have sex with animals now, or my mother in law... because its not explicitly rejected in the NT? Easy, follow God and do unto others... Bible as Word of God? I believe Jesus was the Word of God. The Bible is a historical collection of scriptures and texts attributed either to historic events, letters by prophets or statements by Jesus. @Jody: "As a vegan your can't eat meat , just as a Christian can't sin , but you do then repent..." Being a follower of something is subscribing to a set of beliefs, more so than actually adhering to the tenants of those beliefs. Not adhering to the tenants of that belief might make you a bad follower, but a follower none the less. For example, who is more a vegan? A person who firmly believes in the tenants of veganism, but who in a moment of starvation ate a hamburger... or a person who believes its okay to eat meat, but doesn't like the taste of it?

      Mark - 2012-05-11 18:44

      Dakeyras, No, you are back paddling here. You said: " 'both the Old and New testaments are fortunitely very clear on the issue of homosexual relationships" and, in answer on my question about the OT laws: "As I'm not an Isrealite living 4,000 or so years ago, no. Do you? " From this I can easily deduct that you only stick to rules contained in the OT, and affirmed in the NT. Which would render the Bible as God's Word moot. "May I have sex with animals now, or my mother in law... because its not explicitly rejected in the NT? " Animals? No, because for one, they can bnot give consent. Your mother in law? Well, that's up to you, but just consider the risks posed by inbreeding. Also, you seem to be ignorant of the fact that both the OT and NT speaks about promiscuity and rape among men, and not homosexuality as we know it today.

      Dakey - 2012-05-12 22:51

      TheMark "From this I can easily deduct that you only stick to rules contained in the OT, and affirmed in the NT." No Mark, all you can conclude is that I don't to abide by 'ALL OF THE 613 commandments' because I am not an Israelite. Reread your original question. Many laws/commandments were specific to that society and do not apply to us today, perhaps because in those days, people were 'hard of heart' (as in divorce). TheMark "Animals? No, because for one, they can bnot give consent." Animals also don't give me consent to kill them and eating their flesh. Are you a vegan, or can you somehow justify killing something, but not having intercourse with it based on the concept of 'consent'? Please answer this one, I'm quite eager to hear your opinion. TheMark "Your mother in law? Well, that's up to you, but just consider the risks posed by inbreeding." I was more referring to what you believe Christians are suppose to believe based on Biblical scripture. Did you honestly expect Jesus to review all 613 commandments and tell us whether they still applied or do think think (just perhaps) that when Jesus addressed the Jewish people it would be unneccesary to repeat what they already knew and adhered to? continue...

      Dakey - 2012-05-12 22:56

      TheMark : "Also, you seem to be ignorant of the fact that both the OT and NT speaks about promiscuity and rape among men, and not homosexuality as we know it today. " Yes I am ignorant of that 'fact', as are the vast majority of translators and biblical scholars throughout history. I researched this claim a number of years ago and it seems the only supporters of 'arsenokoitai' referring to anything other than homosexuality 'man' + 'lying' + 'man' happened to have a strong pro gay bias. Bud, I'd had to deal with many scriptures which opposed the way I wanted to live life. Christianity isn't however a case of finding a belief system that fits into your life, rather a case of changing your life to fit into your belief system. As much as I'd like to incorporate many sinfull aspects of my own life into my faith, it would be disingenuous. If you're going to live a lie, don't bother. Live how you want to live and deal with the consequences, if any.

      Mark - 2012-05-13 10:03

      Dakeyras, Please provide me with those references, I am researching the topic. The problem, for me, is that is seems too easy to justify the laws not applicable to oneself, in order to target a minority. Especially when the minority pose no threat to society other than religious.

      Mark - 2012-05-13 10:09

      Dakeyras, " Animals also don't give me consent to kill them and eating their flesh. Are you a vegan, or can you somehow justify killing something, but not having intercourse with it based on the concept of 'consent'? Please answer this one, I'm quite eager to hear your opinion" Wow, extremely difficult one. I have no sound answer to your question. Only a few ideas. No, I am not a vegan, nor a vegetarian. The only way to justify this, is to turn to nature itself. Homosexual activity occurs in 2,500 plus species. Also, all carnivores 'kill' their victims and this has a positive effect on the ecology. Rape does not occur in nature - well not that I am aware of. Also, we can take this a lot further. Why constrict murder to only humans and animals. What about plants? Do you see the problem here?

      Dakey - 2012-05-14 14:36

      @TheMark: "Please provide me with those references, I am researching the topic. " I think you're going to have to do the research yourself, I hardly kept most of the material I came across. General rule of thumb, the translators of the scriptures from ancient hebrew/aramaic showed on many occasions their sincerity towards their work. There have certainly been many passages they could have quite easily put their own interpretation in or made what they believed would be corrections, but we've not seen this. Google 'arsenokoitai', only used in 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-11 as far as I know. The following site provides a decent discussion on the topic. Either way if you're looking to justify your view, you'll find adequate comments claiming it does not refer to homosexuality, then again many people have an agenda. http://catalystresources.org/issues/222dodd.html As for targeting a minority, in my opinion modern 'Christians' would much rather have homosexuality an accepted practise, same with divorce, perhaps even not require us to tithe or forgive those that sin against us... People in general want to feel liked and being part of the 'in crowd' is always nicer than having to stand out. Many so called Christians try to find justification for their actions in the scriptures, in fact many Christians do the same. Point is if you're serious about your faith, you tend to challenge your own ingrained beliefs.

      Dakey - 2012-05-14 14:37

      @TheMark The problem with using nature as a standard for moral values is that there exists absolutedly no objective moral code. It is morally permissible for male lion to have intercourse with its offspring, is it morally permissible for a father to have intercourse with his daughter? No, of course not. I'd recommend spending two hours watching Harris v Craig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqaHXKLRKzg) as it deals with this in detail. As for intercourse with animals, it certain does not need to suggest rape. Domestic animals frequently show sexual advance to their human counterparts. Think dog humping your leg as an example. As for rape in nature, sure it happens. Dogs have been documented to have sex or attempt to have sex with many other animals. Why do we as humans not condone having sex with animals, yet condone killing and eating animals? That's one you would need to question very carefully. Are you born with an inate sense of right and wrong (i.e. a conscience) orare everything you believe in a result of upbringing, genetics and social conditioning? PS, I know there are many claims of 'homosexual' animals, but in truth there is no such thing. Homosexuality implies a rejection of the opposite sex. Although you may examples of animals exhibiting same sex relations, invariably this is not a preferential choice, it is merely a sexual release which serves a biological purpose. An active rejection of the opposite sex is entirely counter evolutionary.

  • Amanda - 2012-05-10 09:13

    aij every flippen day it was about malema and now its again about obama that's not even our president and gay stories. this country is really f**** up

  • martin.gee.godfrey - 2012-05-10 09:14

    What gives anyone the right to tell another person who he/she can or can't marry? This is 2012, gay people exists, gay people eat, breathe, work and play (and will continue to do so!). If two people love each other, let them do so. Inter-racial marriages are allowed, so why not inter-sex marriage? why is it ok for one custom to allow a man more than one wife (Muslim and Zulu customs)but the same people condemn same-sex relationships? Oh, and stop throwing the Bible at everything too, not everyone is a believer nor can be forced to be one! (and no, I am in no way gay, I just don't think governments and religions should be interfering in peoples private lives.

      cdwilson3 - 2012-05-10 09:22

      Your stance is ignorant. So if I want to abuse my children sexually and physically as well as my wife or even murder them, then because it takes place behind the confines of my closed doors in my house then it is ok. Your point is in valid and is pure idiocy. Why do we have laws that govern our lifes if we can do what we want and it is ok as long as we do it in our own homes. Do you then say that child abuse is acceptable? Please say NO

      martin.gee.godfrey - 2012-05-10 09:29

      @cdwilson3 That is not what I said, there is a huge difference between abusing children and murder (criminal offences) and two adults of the same sex wanting to have what they believe to be a fulfilling relationship. I did not advocate a free-for-all society where rape, pillage and murder is condoned. Perhaps you should read my comments about governments and church interfering, in context. Of course there must be rules against criminal acts, but to deny two people who just want to seal there relationship in the form of marriage is just plain archaic.

      Wendy - 2012-05-10 09:32

      Cdwilson - abuse of any kind is wrong. Loving and committed Gay relationships between two consenting adults - surely you can see the difference? You are ignorant.

      IMHO - 2012-05-10 09:33

      @cdwilson do you understand the difference between consenting adults commiting to each other in marriage, and abuse of children etc which you cite ? If you believe same-sex marriage is a sin thats fine, but why should other people have to abide by your belief? You do realise that Jews believe its a sin to eat pork, but I assume you don't think thats enough reason for the eating of pork to be made illegal?

      cdwilson3 - 2012-05-10 09:39

      You say that government and religion should not interfere in peoples private lifes, so child abusers and wife beaters do this in their private lifes and not publicly, ergo the government and religions have no say. Read what you have written Ferretgee, it is as plain as the nose on your face. An English adage says \load your mind, before you shoot off at the mouth\. Think about what you have said and you will see clearly that you are saying that it is acceptable to do whatever you like in your private life and the government and religion has no say.

      IMHO - 2012-05-10 09:46

      @cdwilson obviously doesn't get it. Lets spell it out for her: 1) Abuse is harmful to others and is not a consenting agreement between two poeple. 2)same-sex marriage is non-harmful and is a consenting decision made out of mutual love.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 11:58

      I was born the same way as you, and pay tax just as you do. Therefore i MUST have the same rights as you do. If i was a gay american, i wouldn't pay tax. Or deduct a certain amount every month. Why should they pay tax, yet not have the same legal benefits/protection and human rights as all the "normal" people?

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 12:01

      Jesus f**king christ cdwilson, you are more stupid and pathetic than i thought. Shame, i feel sorry for anyone associated with you.

      martin.gee.godfrey - 2012-05-10 12:51

      @ cdwilson3 - Seems you are the only one who does not get my meaning. I will type slowly so that you can read it ok, I did NOT condone wife-beating, rape, child abuse or any other C R I M I N A L offences and those are the laws imposed by government to whic I subscribe. However, I do NOT beleive that a government anywhere in the world has the right to tell two people of ANY sex who are in a committed relationship, that they CAN'T marry! Please try and understand. To misquote another English adage: "Rather be quiet and not let people know how stupid you are than write down your opinion and prove it!"

      hendrikvs - 2012-05-10 17:34

      The ones that are protesting the most are the ones that want to divert the attention away from their inner needs of fighting the urge to kiss a same-sex person! The closet cases were always the greatest protesters!

  • intensebb - 2012-05-10 09:18

    I dont understand how there are gay pastors? Which Bible do they read? Do they skip the parts where it says that God does not approve of a gay activities? What happened to living a life that God wants us to live. That only happens if we live a life by the Bible.

      cdwilson3 - 2012-05-10 09:24

      Amen. Gay pastors and gay marriages are an abomination

      TheMark - 2012-05-10 11:50

      No, you are.

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 12:05

      Your hairstyle is an abomination. I mean really, where is it from, 1976?

      Adele - 2012-05-10 12:17

      They also skipped the part about working on the sabbath, wearing fabric blends, tattoos, rounds haircuts, eating ham sandwiches, not killing children who curse their parents and using birth control, women who aren't allowed to speak in the house of God etc etc. Which bible do you read? Why aren't you out murdering children who curse their parents and people who work on the sabbath?

      colin.langley - 2012-05-10 16:49

      Absolutely no fashion sense....go away! You are burning my eyes you big 'ol breeder!

      hendrikvs - 2012-05-10 17:32

      Hmmm....be careful when you go to church - you may just love the attention you get from all the nerdy gay pastors!

      jody.beggs - 2012-05-11 12:10

      @Adele - my favourite is graven images "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments." Ever bow to a cross or depiction of Jesus Christ , its a sin. Damn the man.

  • Pieter Janse van Rensburg - 2012-05-10 09:21

    Leviticus 20. For all you people that don't read the bible.

      Phae - 2012-05-10 09:27

      I take it you're rallying for support to reintroduce slavery, Levitucus 1002:whatever it is. Take your cult and its ridiculous book and peddle it somewhere else!

      IMHO - 2012-05-10 09:39

      oooh , heres another nice on: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 a woman who is raped must marry her rapist lets make that a law too!

      Adele - 2012-05-10 11:01

      Do you mean this one? Leviticus 20:9 For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.

      Dakey - 2012-05-10 15:13

      @Adele This might help you understand a little bit beter Adele. http://outoftheoverflow.com/2009/09/22/whats-the-difference-between-the-old-covenant-new-covenant-in-the-bible/ As I'm sure you know there are also NT scriptures which condemns homosexuality.

      Dakey - 2012-05-10 15:52

      @IMHO; A common NIV mistranslation suggesting he rapes her. v28 described a man having sex with a virgin (i.e. deflowering her) and as a result she will struggle to find a man. There is a long discussion here: http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ot_and_rape.htm But to keep it simple, compare the terms used for sex in v25 and v28. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2022&version=KJV v25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. v28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Case in point: In 2 Samuel 13, Amnon, a son of David, rapes his half-sister, Tamar. Tamar was not forced to marry Amnon

      Adele - 2012-05-10 16:07

      @Dakeyras - Oh sorry I forgot, God was evil in the Old Testament. There are plenty dodgy NT verses I can put on the table as well.

      Dakey - 2012-05-10 18:06

      @Adele "God was evil in the Old Testament." Adele, I don't particuarly care to get into a debate with you over this because I don't think it will serve any purpose. If you think God is evil in the OT, read the book of Jonah (shouldn't take more than 15 minutes). God is mercyfull both to those believers who reject him as well as to non-believers who are far removed from him. My perspective use to be 'similar' to yours, but when you carefully dig into the OT and undestand the context, the greatness of God, well you read it a lot differently. Whether you believe in the Christian God or not, I don't think you can really deny that Obama's Christian faith isn't exactly in line with what is taught in the scriptures. What does any belief server if not actually followed?

      TheMark - 2012-05-11 10:47

      Dakeyras, Skillfully done there. But, Christ came and brought us the two regulations that outranks all others, namely love thy neighbor and love thy God. Hoe does this fit in your view?

      Dakey - 2012-05-11 17:01

      @THeMark "But, Christ came and brought us the two regulations that outranks all others, namely love thy neighbor and love thy God. Hoe does this fit in your view? " I don't believe it 'outranked' any other commandments, rather it is a summary of all the others. If you love your God, you'll obey his commands. If you love your neighbour, you'll treat him as you would like to be treated. Here's the problem. My sinful neighbour can live his life as he pleases. When however his life impacts that of another it becomes a more difficult matter, one in which I would need to interfere. So as long as a non believers sin does not hurt another, who am I to judge?

      Mark - 2012-05-11 18:49

      Dakeyras, "Here's the problem. My sinful neighbour can live his life as he pleases. When however his life impacts that of another it becomes a more difficult matter, one in which I would need to interfere. So as long as a non believers sin does not hurt another, who am I to judge?" Two points/questions here. How does a consenting homosexual relationship impact you or either of the lovers negatively? The second question follows from the first. How does a consenting homosexual relationship 'hurt' the parties involved?

      Dakey - 2012-05-14 23:36

      @TheMark, Its not the two consenting adults that concerns me, its the infant they bring into their relationship.

  • shaakieras1 - 2012-05-10 09:23

    @ferretgee as per usual you read only what you want to...muhammad did not say muslims he said ISLAM! Of course there are muslim sinners but it is not for us to Judge!Uv completely gotten of the track these comments pertain_ "gay christian" you cannot deny anyone the right to believe in God or Allah simply because they gay _ turning them away from church or masjid is the bigger sin! "let he without sin cast the first stone" they like all of us will be judged by our creator! so ferretgee_if you have nothing constructive to add to this otherwise civil conversation you should exclude yourself _there is enough hate and discriminiation in this world...dont look at the muslims in the casino and think thats all muslims...they are humans with free will! one muslim does not represent Islam! " let there be peace and let it start with me!!"

      cdwilson3 - 2012-05-10 09:27

      Well said. I am a christian and I see nowhere in any Bible, Koran, Talmud etc where homosexuality is condoned.

      NeildeWeerdt - 2012-05-10 09:58

      @shaakieras1 I Agree with cdwilson3 Well said.

      martin.gee.godfrey - 2012-05-10 13:08

      @shaakieras1, How can I have gone off the track? Muhammad said "Western culture is based on immorality and extravagance while Islam is based on morality and simplicity" so therefore his generalisation is that ALL westerners are immoral and extravagant. I responded that there are (some) Muslims that drink and gamble, I did not generalise or intimate that ALL Muslims are drinkers and gamblers. Seems you saw my comment as an attack on Islam, certainly not and I certainly wasn't "judging" anyone. Bottom line is, as much as people dislike or frown on homosexuality (on topic here) and quote religious tomes as rational reasons for it to be banned/forbidden etc it is not going to stop anytime soon so, practice what you preach and let there be peace, starting with you accepting that homosexuality is a reality.

  • Beryl - 2012-05-10 09:29

    What infuriates me is the sanctimonious bible quoting holy men who are forever pulling their precious bible verses into argument. Their bible is also against equal rights for women, slavery, sodomy, bigotry and so on. You read about more ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIESTS who sodomize boys than you do of gay people doing so. You read of more heterosexual NORMAL husbands killing their entire families in rage than you do of "alternative" families suffering this fate. Gay, lesbian and transgendered people are not a threat to family and society...the bible, filled with its hate speech inducing antiquated social commentary and fairy tales of a man who could walk on water, and those interpreting its "messages" as they see fit are the real danger. And lastly... If their precious GOD did exist then why would he allow millions of people to be slain in his name, or for entire towns and cities to be destroyed in Asia by natural disaster brought on by the nature he supposedly created (to use but two examples)? Oh yes, that’s right, because they are non-believers...well what a mighty fine example of an all loving being he is...

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 12:08

      Hahaha everything you said is so true!

      colin.langley - 2012-05-10 16:51

      AWESOME!...GET 'EM BERYL!!!!!!!!

  • colin.langley - 2012-05-10 09:33

    OK People of the Christian/Muslim persuasion. Why do you care what i do as a consenting adult in MY home? Why are you not concerned about the REAL problems facing the human race right now, you know...like...Nuclear Weapons, Crazy people blowing themselves up in the name of religion...the evil wicked arms trade, the fate of poor families who watch their children die of starvation, the number of sick twisted politicians bastards that ruin many many peoples lives, the despots, the war criminals and the vile scum that shoot you to steal a cell phone. I just don't get it...you bunch using the bible/koran to validate you prejudice. Why don't u just mind your own damn business and let us be. Being gay is not a western invention, it's a human reality. No amount of hell fire sermons will make us go away. You case that same sex marriage will destroy the sanctity of marriage...are you kidding me?! Brittney Spears get's married for 24 hours and get's an annulment. Kim Kardashian lasts at least a month! What sanctity of marriage are you referring to? And the last time i checked every single gay person i know came from a straight family unit. I'm lucky, my parents gave up their faith (they were Jehovah's Witnesses) when they were told to choose the word of god or me. My father said eloquently "If i can love me son for what and who he is and god cannot, then it's not the God i know"

      Beryl - 2012-05-10 10:01

      Beautifully said Colin!

      Dave - 2012-05-10 13:12

      This is why I love my friend, well said. Scratch me, I bleed, my mother had no chemical imbalance, she not not an alcoholic, there was no lightning strike when I was born, I was just born. Gay. Please dont write like I am in the third person here, not tell me what i am or who I am, I dont tell you, I have that respect, so should you.

      hendrikvs - 2012-05-10 21:11

      Well stated Colin! As stated here before - the biggest homophobes are actually gay and fighting it by being homophobic. Like the Catholic priests for example. All a shield to protect their real lust for the same sex!

  • maphalala.besuthu - 2012-05-10 09:35

    I think obama got it wrong how can he allow such a thing,I need an explanation of marriage

      Gareth - 2012-05-10 09:36

      If you don't even know what marriage is how are you against gays getting it?!?

      vernon.samuel.7 - 2012-05-10 09:38

      When 2 people commit themselves to each other, with a view to spending their lives together and possibly raising a family. What is wrong with 2 same-sex people devoting themselves to each other? We condone wars and killing in the name of religion, but condemn love in the name of religion? We are hypocrites!

  • jolize.jacobs - 2012-05-10 09:53

    "The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision." http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-2945.html Go have a little read. It MIGHT just open some of your eyes. But sadly most people have such narrow minded points of view especially when it comes to the topic of "gays". NO one has ANY right to judge. As a christian your main objective is to love your God and one another. It saddens me to see how you shame the name of Christians. Go and start your own little religion called we choose to judge who we want. You wonder why so many people turn away from the church. Not because of the church but the people in it that judge. Have you even done any research on the topic of the bible vs homosexuality?? The context in which those verses was written etc. Be educated if you even want to have an opinion!

      wesley.bischoff - 2012-05-10 12:17

      True that. I don't know where some christians (not all) get off thinking they are better than anyone else. And they seem to be THE BIGGEST sinners, compared to non-believers. The other day, a woman in her 40s parks in OUR driveway, instead of finding parking for church somewhere else. So when she comes out after her cleansing sermon, my dad asked her why she parks in our driveway and not the parking provided by the church. She simply said, "F*CK off, i can park where i want. Such a lovely, repentant christian spirit she had. She drove away with nails in all her tyres ^__^

      hendrikvs - 2012-05-10 21:13

      Well said Jolize! At least you have vision and knowledge about the real issues of life - and not blindfolded by ignorance like most on here.