News24

Palestinians press on with statehood bid

2011-06-27 09:01

Ramallah - Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas said on Sunday that with no renewal of peace talks on the horizon, the Palestinians would pursue their unilateral bid for recognition in September.

"I say that if negotiations have failed we will go to the United Nations for membership," Abbas told a meeting of the Palestine Liberation Organisation and his Fatah party.

"Until now there have been no new incentives to return to negotiations," he said.

The meeting, in the West Bank city of Ramallah where Abbas has his headquarters, was called to make preparations for the UN campaign.

Abbas had indicated that the Palestinians would be willing to give up the September bid for recognition of a Palestinian state if long dormant peace talks with Israel could be resurrected.

While many states have indicated they will support the bid, including France and Britain, it has faced strong opposition from Israel, the United States and Germany, who said any progress toward a Palestinian state must be made through a negotiated agreement.

Settlement freeze

Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat said that granting UN membership to a Palestinian state could actually help bring the sides back to the negotiating table.

"We do not think that there is a contradiction between the two demands," he said. "This measure is inevitable if (the international community) wants to preserve the peace process."

Peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians ground to a halt in September 2010 when Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu refused to renew a partial freeze on settlement construction in the occupied West Bank.

The Palestinians then refused to return to talks as long as Israel built on land they want for a future state.

Instead, they decided to go to the UN General Assembly in September to ask for membership and recognition of a Palestinian state in the borders that existed before the 1967 Six-Day War.

One of the stumbling blocks to a renewal of talks has been a recent unity deal between Abbas's Fatah party and Gaza's Islamist Hamas rulers after years of enmity.

Hamas talks postponed

Israel has refused to deal with Hamas, or any government in which it is a partner, for as long as it calls for Israel's destruction.

The unity deal has also run into domestic difficulties, with the two Palestinian sides failing to agree on a prime minister for an interim government.

Hamas has vociferously rejected Abbas's candidate, incumbent prime minister Salam Fayyad.

Talks between Abbas and Hamas chief Khaled Meshaal on a new Palestinian cabinet, set for Cairo last week, were indefinitely postponed.

But Abbas indicated on Sunday he was not giving up on reconciliation and would be prepared to go to the Gaza Strip.

"For a long time I said I would go to Gaza, and now I say I am still determined to go to Gaza and it will be a surprise for all," he said.

Meanwhile, French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe on Sunday said the Mideast Quartet - the US, Russia, European Union and United Nations - working on the peace process could meet in July in Washington and that France's proposal for a peace conference "is not dead".

Comments
  • dassie - 2011-06-27 09:46

    Who are the Palestinians ? When did they become a nation ?

      battle4truth - 2011-06-27 10:38

      Rome changed the Name Israel to Palestina after the excile of Jews sometime 70AD. Jews still remained in the land and so did a small populations of Arabs. The people that were then staying in the land were understandably called palestinians, both jews and arabs. There has never been and ancient people called palestinians, it was created by the Arab world after 1948, and since then they have managed to presuade the world of it's so called ancient roots. The truth is, the land belongs to Israel, it has been given to them by God, as mentioned so many times in the Bible. Not once has Jerusalem or Israel been mentioned in the Koran! not once!

      TheWally - 2011-06-27 13:09

      FACT: Jesus was a Palestinian, go do some research and educate yourself dassie malema

      TheWally - 2011-06-27 13:13

      @tt battle4truth: It would actually help if you read the Quran, i think maybe first teach yourself to read first though... please show me in any book where GOD says the land belongs to the JEWS.. in fact please show me in any book where MOSES specifically says that he is a JEW?

      Zanu - 2011-06-27 13:22

      Jesus came from within the Jewish community of what is today Israel (Bait Lechem). I trust you understand that the TRUE Palestinians are the Jews. The Arabs co-opted the name (and the identity) in 1966. I remind you that during the Mandatory period, the British referred to Jews as "Palestinians." The Arabs were just always referred to as "Arabs." During World War Two, when the call went out to form a Palestine Brigade, the only people who signed up were -- you guessed it -- Jews. The Arabs were aligned with the Nazis, in case you didn't know. Moreover, the comment from “Paco7” below about Hitler, confirms the Arab & Nazi association.

      TheWally - 2011-06-27 13:31

      interesting fact is that history documents Hitler being sponsored by a wealthy Jewish Family

      Cornix - 2011-06-27 13:32

      Jesus did not speak Arabic, he spoke Aramaic.

      TheWally - 2011-06-27 13:44

      at least you know your history but at the same time exposing your IQ. what does speaking Aramaic have to do with being a Palestinian/isreali or Jew or Muslim? there are millions of Jews and Christians who speak Arabic I speak Arabic and you probably speak Hebrew so i guess we cant be South Africans.... idiot!

      Cornix - 2011-06-27 14:00

      TheWally, today's Palestinians mainly come from an Arab background. To link Jesus to today's Palestinians is incorrect. Jesus was born to a Jewish family.

      TheWally - 2011-06-27 14:17

      I see you still CANNOT prove to me that Jesus was not a Palestinian. Face the FACTS instead: right now the Isreali army are masercuring Jesus's people...

      LexLuther - 2011-06-27 14:54

      At The Wally and Paco7: Your hyprocricy stinks. There are at least 4 articles on News24 today about the murder of innocent civilians by Muslims. One relates to Senegal. Three relate to Syria. And yet I don't see your comments on those stories. It is only Israel that is fit for your hatred and condemnation. Yet you ignore all the violence and murder by Muslims of innocent civilians in Syria, Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Morocco, Nigeria, Bali, Indonesia, Egypt, Russia, the USA, Kenya, Somalia, the Balkans (Serbia etc), the UK, Jordan, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, etc. It's fine if you hate the Jewish people, but don't pretend that your criticism of Israel is anything but that - stupid, ignorant, blind, vicious hatred of the Jewish people. And know that God judges you.

      TheWally - 2011-06-27 15:25

      Please Prove to me where i said i hate Jews?.. you need to read properly my friend. Even Jews and Holocaust survivors despises Israeli Zionist who have hijacked the Jewish religion and i have proven that fact. As for the other articles, i am against any killings of any human life. The difference however is that there are not so many hateful liars commenting on those articles than there are on these pro-zionist ones. Its clear on recent world news that even Muslims are standing up against oppressors even if it be against a Muslim. Its time the Jews did the same, the evidence is overwhelming and the world majority cant be wrong. A fact is a fact and the truth lies in statistic, all you need to do is open your eyes: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

  • shmultz zilgin - 2011-06-27 10:29

    True, the Palestinian nation is a new term made up after the 67 war these tools lived in Jordan and a few in Egypt. Its their fault they tried to conquer a more powerful nation.

      TheWally - 2011-06-27 13:15

      Wow, tools you say, is that what your religion teaches you to refer to other religions? what an ignorant shmultz

  • Zanu - 2011-06-27 11:18

    If the Jews had not fought back against the Arab armies and had been destroyed in 1948, they would have received the most beautiful eulogies throughout the world. Instead, they chose to stand their ground and defend themselves. And in winning, they received the world's condemnation. Golda Meir said she would take the condemnation over the eulogies. If the Palestinians declare a state on Israeli land, then technically, the Oslo agreements are dead, and Israel could go to war and end this problem once and for all. Those who would live in Peace will stay… those who want to fight will be dealt with… maybe this will be a positive move on the road to Middle East stability.

      barryjoelm - 2011-06-27 13:17

      Paco7, you're an idiot!

      TruthSeeker - 2011-06-29 08:39

      True. Israel was hammered by many Arab nations at once. They took strategic territory, after being attacked, and gave about 98% of that back to the aggressors. Unprecedented! There is little mention of the fact here that the Muslim clerics have stated it as their goal to annihilate Israel. They do not seek peace, unless it means that Israel is utterly destroyed.

  • Zanu - 2011-06-27 11:38

    To those that call terrorists Freedom fighters; Do freedom fighters deliberately attack a school bus? Do freedom fighters slit the throats of a sleeping family (a 2 year old baby included?) Do freedom fighters stab innocent people who are just waiting for a bus? Do freedom fighters hurl boulders at moving cars? Do freedom fighters keep shooting missiles while the retaliation by Israel hurts their civilians more then anyone else? (all these have taken place in the last 5 months alone!) Whatever depraved and genetically compromised individuals such as the Hamas may call it, the rest of the world calls it terrorism. If the ANC of the 80’s were “freedom fighters” like the “Hamas” then South Africa would not have had a peaceful transition to Democracy, but rather, a civil war and many dead. FACT

      Doublepost - 2011-06-27 12:45

      However, Zanu, the ANC did blow up innocent people, they torched buildings, committed insane acts of violence against their own people. They invented the necklace, killed thousands of IFP supporters and planted mines of farms to predominately kill workers. The ANC were terrorists, exactly the same as Hamas. Your comment is not based in FACT, you cannot argue that the ANC was not for terrorism and not for Civil War. Ask yourself this. If Israel were to hand over the entire country, like the ANC was handed South Africa, would they still need to have a Civil War? The answer would obviously be NO! And that is the only difference in this whole scenario, the ONLY difference!

      Zanu - 2011-06-27 13:07

      Doublpost. You are correct, the ANC have performed acts of terror in public area and churches... but by 1990's Madiba declared that violence is not the way forward and a peaceful way forward was agreed upon. Later on negotiation between De Klerk & Madiba led to agreements, a YES/NO vote took place, and by 1994 we had our first democratic election. The difference with the Palestinians is that they STILL think they could achieve a state by violence... and that will not happen. Occupation will end when the Palestinians renounce terror against Israel and vote to live in peace with Israel. However, until there are changes in the Hamas charter that calls for the destruction of Israel and the killing of all Jews - the Palestinians will continue to suffer - at their own hands, from their own bad decisions. Remember Hamas came to power democratically.

      Doublepost - 2011-06-27 14:20

      Zanu, Nelson Mandela never once in his life declared that violence is not the answer, not once! There was no real negotiation. It was simply, hand over the whole country or we continue violence. Please tell me Zanu, what is different between what Hamas does and what the ANC did?! There is no difference. If Israel was to hand over itself to Hamas, of course Hamas would stop violence, since they have already obtained that which the violence was used for. Duh! You are being stupid. Nelson only stopped violence once he got exactly what he wanted. There is no difference between Nelson Mandela and those that run Hamas. There is none. Mandela in fact had the opportunity, twice I believe, to renounce violence and be let out of prison. He chose to continue violence. So please, you can lie to others and achieve some thumbs up from those that believe the rainbow nation crap or you can see the truth for what it is.

      Doublepost - 2011-06-27 14:24

      Hey Zanu, here is the ball breaker. The most violent time in pre 1994 South Africa were the four years after your saint/Godlike Nelson Mandela was freed from so called prison. More like house arrest but anyway! How do you explain that? Huh?! This bastion of non-violence gets released and suddenly we have an explosion of violence unseen before! You drink that koolaid like it is the last sip of water for days! You will believe anything handed to you because it sounds nice! Just to prove a point just replace Palestinians with blacks and Israel with South Africa and then tell me what you think?

      LexLuther - 2011-06-27 14:55

      At Doublepost: Your hyprocricy stinks. There are at least 4 articles on News24 today about the murder of innocent civilians by Muslims. One relates to Senegal. Three relate to Syria. And yet I don't see your comments on those stories. It is only Israel that is fit for your hatred and condemnation. Yet you ignore all the violence and murder by Muslims of innocent civilians in Syria, Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Morocco, Nigeria, Bali, Indonesia, Egypt, Russia, the USA, Kenya, Somalia, the Balkans (Serbia etc), the UK, Jordan, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, etc. It's fine if you hate the Jewish people, but don't pretend that your criticism of Israel is anything but that - stupid, ignorant, blind, vicious hatred of the Jewish people. And know that God judges you.

      Zanu - 2011-06-27 14:59

      saint/Godlike Nelson Mandela? well... yes! hold on bru... do you think that Zuma... or even worse Malema would of done a better job bringing us to democracy. I agree that the road has not been smooth, and I also agree that farm murders today are just as bad as any crime against humanity around the world (because its organised), I see the education system here as a crime against humanity as well (to keep the same government- keep the people uneducated). Don’t get me wrong, I am in no way supportive in the direction South Africa is heading right now, we have problems... many problems, but we were given a chance to make things right, and most of us are still fighting to make this country work. But would you have preferred a civil war? Maybe my fault was to draw common idea between the ANC & Hamas in the first place. The difference here is religion... and the other that Israel/Palestine is 2 different countries rather then South Africa being one. But I want to get this straight… would you have preferred a civil war in South Africa between white & black?

      Paco7 - 2011-06-27 15:22

      u sound annally receptive

      Doublepost - 2011-06-27 16:40

      You guys get so far ahead of yourselves you actually don't seem to realise what I am even saying. If you would notice on those other articles I am completely against muslims and completely for Israel. In this article I am merely pointing out Zanu's contradictions. He is fine for Nelson and the ANC blowing up innocent civilians because Apartheid was a so called "evil" but on the same hand he is against Hamas for doing the very thing the ANC and Nelson did. He is contradicting himself, he heaps praises on a self-confessed terrorist but at the very sametime condemns people following in Mandela's footsteps. He even admitted I was correct, so which is it guys!? Do you condemn terrorists or only the ones whose "causes" you don't agree with?!

      Doublepost - 2011-06-27 16:47

      And finally Zanu, your comments don't actually make much sense. I could use any of your questions and put them in an Israel scenario and put them straight back down your throat. Would I prefer we had a civil war back in the 90's compared to the crap we have now. When all is said and done, yes! You know why?! Well, then those that were grown up could have dealt with it, those who knew the problems during Apartheid! At least then, Zanu, the problem would have been sorted out once and for all. Hey, Zanu, if you agree with the two state solution for Israel why not a two state solution for South Africa?

      Zanu - 2011-06-28 05:53

      I though you might have wanted a civil war. however if you think that would have solved SA's problems you are wrong. Chances are that you would not be here today if a civil war took place... chances are that I would not be here either. I only agree with you that I may have confused the Palestinian and SA issue cause the two issues are consequently different. As I said before; 2 sates vrs 1 state, and the biggest issue, is the hate that continues to spew through the influence of religion in the region, crazy ultra-religious people on both sides... Israel settlers on the one side (even though non violent) but still hurtful to future process and extremely violent Islamic fundamentalists on the other side (who love death more than life). 'Look you can draw similarities as much as you please... but the two cases are only similar in definition, not reality. I know you are against Muslims - and I don’t support that. I belive Islam has been hijacked by fundamentalist and it is the job for the Muslims to take their religion back. I support Palestinian freedom BUT only if they renounce terror.

      Zanu - 2011-06-28 05:54

      weather a 2 state solution would of been good for SA... I am not sure I agree with you - but if the NP never called for a referendum about that in the 90's then why are you crying over spilt milk now. The NP truly believed they could live in peace with the Black majority, and I truly believe we living the best case scenario today; yes there is crime, farm murders, our education system is pathetic, our future leaders are crazy, but I still believe we have a lot going for us too – and that we will make this country work for all of us eventually. However Israeli's and Palestinians refuse too live together – and religion is the reason they will never have peace.

  • Cornix - 2011-06-27 12:11

    The million dollar question is: Will the violence against Israel really stop when the Palestinians have their state?

      Paco7 - 2011-06-27 12:28

      the question is,will u ever jump off a cliff ??? let's pray u do

      TheWally - 2011-06-27 13:18

      Salahudien Ayubie

  • greensplash - 2011-06-27 12:18

    @Zanu and other posters above. The funny thing is that the only people that think like you are Zionist Jews. The rest of the world see's the massive abuses of power undertaken by the nation of Israel. How many Israelis doe each year due to Palestinians? How many Palestinians die due to Israel? The Gaza war last year: 1500 Palestinians dead. 10 Israelis dead - that's not a war - that's a massacre.

      Zanu - 2011-06-27 12:27

      You can’t have Genocide or ethnic cleansing if the Palestinians are not dying in mass like the Holocaust, Rwanda, or Congo... or even the way Kadafi is killing his own. If anything Israel has always wanted and voted for peace. Palestinians attacks, deaths and their use of human shields is a war crime done by Hamas! You want to see an area cleansed then where did all the Christians and Jews that lived in the Arab world go? Why are Gays disappearing in Iran and Saudi… why are women stoned for being raped in this world you seem to represent? Israel has a 20% Muslim population who earn a better living then any of their neighbours... who vote and live anywhere in Israel... if anything your comment of human rights atrocities are more true to Israel's neighbours rather than Israel...

      TheWally - 2011-06-27 13:28

      Sorry Zanu, your lies are fooling nobody, please show me where Muslims are allowed to vote in Isreal, they do not have that privelage.. even the lie of human shields has been debunked in the independent UN GOLDSTEIN report which actually show the IDF using this tactic aswell as using white phospor to burn school kids and deliberatly blowing up UN hospitals in Palestine... these are all documented facts, your lies however are not.. even truthful jews are speaking out against the apartheid state of Isreal, in fact right here in Cape Town there is a holocaust survivor calling Isreals actions like that of Nazi's, and guess what, he is not the first one to do so.. start listening to the voice of your own people who are putting truth above evil http://www.nkusa.org/ http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/ http://www.israelversusjudaism.org/ http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

      Zanu - 2011-06-27 13:41

      IN ISRAEL, all civilians Muslims, Jews & Christians alike, A. Have equal rights. B. If you are gay you are a protected minority. C. freedom of speech D. Freedom of protests. E. Free press. F. Freedom of religion. G. Woman have equal rights and can vote, work and study. H. DEMOCRACY - All citizens vote! I. No racist distinction between Shiite Sunni or Druze J. A justice system that is above even the prime minister K. Both Arab and Jewish representatives in their Knesset parliament.... L. any Muslim, Jew or Christian can live anywhere they want in Israel Etc. Etc. Etc. Name 1 country in the middle east that treats its inhabitants that way. Visit Israel and see for yourself why the Israeli Arabs are so grateful to be Israeli citizens.

      Zanu - 2011-06-27 13:44

      Apartheid can not end cause it doesn’t exist: There is no Apartheid in Israel. Israeli Muslims citizens vote, work, pay taxes, love, live & visit anywhere in Israel. Palestinians vote in Palestine, Hamas democratically came to power (so did Hitler btw). And they have voted for the Palestinian Authority. thus there is not apartheid in Israel , but i will tell you where there is, in most of the Arab world, where a Jew is not only not allowed to live, but even to visit... and I am not even gona start talking about all the racism that Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Gays, women, and other smaller denomination have to face.

      TheWally - 2011-06-27 14:06

      you see unlike you; i actually went to Israel twice. The first time i was invited there and got turned back at Ben Gurion because i was Muslim and because of that was told i was a security threat. The second time i got in, but not after a 4 hour question session at Ben Gurion and being told that there was suspicion me being a real SA citezen because South Africans are supposed to be Black people... there is even a holocaust survivor who got searched in her ANUS at Ben Gurion because she was listed as a suspected security Threat and was on a list (she was in her 80's i believe).. can you imagine that, a holocaust survivor a threat to the state of Israel. This must be the freedom and democracy you are talking about hey, please try my other leg this time

      TheWally - 2011-06-27 14:06

      you see unlike you; i actually went to Israel twice. The first time i was invited there and got turned back at Ben Gurion because i was Muslim and because of that was told i was a security threat. The second time i got in, but not after a 4 hour question session at Ben Gurion and being told that there was suspicion me being a real SA citezen because South Africans are supposed to be Black people... there is even a holocaust survivor who got searched in her ANUS at Ben Gurion because she was listed as a suspected security Threat and was on a list (she was in her 80's i believe).. can you imagine that, a holocaust survivor a threat to the state of Israel. This must be the freedom and democracy you are talking about hey, please try my other leg this time

      TheWally - 2011-06-27 14:13

      you see unlike you; i actually went to Israel twice. The first time i was invited there and got turned back at Ben Gurion because i was Muslim and because of that was told i was a security threat. The second time i got in, but not after a 4 hour question session at Ben Gurion and being told that there was suspicion me NOT being a real SA citizen because South Africans are supposed to be Black people... there is even a holocaust survivor who got searched in her ANUS at Ben Gurion because she was listed as a suspected security Threat and was on a list (she was in her 80's i believe).. can you imagine that, a holocaust survivor a threat to the state of Israel. This must be the freedom and democracy you are talking about hey, please try my other leg... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC37pFQ8tyg&feature=related

      Zanu - 2011-06-27 14:24

      Wally, u talk allot of trash... but I guess that how you people justify the killing and violent manner used as a way to stop peace. Muslims can vote in Israel, Human shields are used by Hamas...the UN report criticized Hamas of using them, if memory serves me right, it was GOLDSTEIN’s only criticism in the report against Hamas. Missiles were shot from school yards & hospitals by Hamas. Hamas knew Israel would retaliate, and Hamas knew that those civilian deaths, would later be used as propaganda by losers like you. Hamas has no value for life, especially for their own people. What about the other million or so Holocaust survivors who believe Hamas want to finish Hitler’s Job. You are going to listen to one survivor from Cape Town... while you ignore millions more. If you don’t like what others say you ignore them? It’s a democracy so anyone can say what they want... especially Israeli Muslims who have voted to stay under Israeli control if a 2 state solution takes place... life must be good there to get a 68% win in that ballot. most of what you said are lies and propaganda… but also comes as no surprise.

      TheWally - 2011-06-27 14:38

      Millions of Holocaust survivors you say.... mmm... wow! are these the Factual Numbers you are getting... lol.. are you perhaps getting these figures off Isreali television, like the numbers they "truthfully" tell there very own citizens here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3-YqZkoMs or maybe like these video's they presented the UN after shooting live ammunition towards holocaust survivors and priests on a ship and killing a few aswell in INTERNATIONAL WATERS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW2R4Iw5afc like i said, try the other leg

      LexLuther - 2011-06-27 14:56

      At Greensplash: Your hyprocricy stinks. There are at least 4 articles on News24 today about the murder of innocent civilians by Muslims. One relates to Senegal. Three relate to Syria. And yet I don't see your comments on those stories. It is only Israel that is fit for your hatred and condemnation. Yet you ignore all the violence and murder by Muslims of innocent civilians in Syria, Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Morocco, Nigeria, Bali, Indonesia, Egypt, Russia, the USA, Kenya, Somalia, the Balkans (Serbia etc), the UK, Jordan, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, etc. It's fine if you hate the Jewish people, but don't pretend that your criticism of Israel is anything but that - stupid, ignorant, blind, vicious hatred of the Jewish people. And know that God judges you.

      Zanu - 2011-06-27 15:06

      By millions I meant survivors and their families of today.... ie about 40% of Israel’s population... im not gona answer your pathetic questions - cause I know very well the type of human- being behind the talkbacks... Salam

      greensplash - 2011-06-27 22:53

      @LexLuther Typical. As soon as someone criticises Israel they are either racist, a 'Jew hater' or an anti-semite. I am non of those - I am however against the abuses carries out by Israel and backed by the USA. Also by your reasoning, wrong doing in Syria or somewhere else in the world somehow condones terrible actions undertaken by Israel.

  • Mojo18 - 2011-06-27 14:14

    Please dont argue with the all-knowing all-wise all-powerful zanu. He knows everything and the rest of the world knows nothing. Palestinians are denied access to health care and medication, sanitation, building supplies, clean water supply. Their homes are bulldozed and land taken forcefully. They are denied free movement and because of the apartheid wall they erected, families are cut-off from each other. International human rights orgamisations have condemned Israels actions and even the toothless UN doesn't recognise Israels stolen land. There are Israeli Jewish organisations who speak out against its occupation. You cannot have the US negotiating peace when it supplies Israel with millions of dollars of arms and ammunition. Hamas was democratically elected and Israel wants to make them pay for voting them into power. Hilary Clinton spoke at the AIPAC conference once and its obvious that Palestian life is worth nothing compared to her Jewish friends. Even Obama has to dance to their tune - thats where the money comes from.

      LexLuther - 2011-06-27 14:57

      At Mojo18: Your hyprocricy stinks. There are at least 4 articles on News24 today about the murder of innocent civilians by Muslims. One relates to Senegal. Three relate to Syria. And yet I don't see your comments on those stories. It is only Israel that is fit for your hatred and condemnation. Yet you ignore all the violence and murder by Muslims of innocent civilians in Syria, Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Morocco, Nigeria, Bali, Indonesia, Egypt, Russia, the USA, Kenya, Somalia, the Balkans (Serbia etc), the UK, Jordan, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, etc. It's fine if you hate the Jewish people, but don't pretend that your criticism of Israel is anything but that - stupid, ignorant, blind, vicious hatred of the Jewish people. And know that God judges you.

      Zee - 2011-06-27 15:18

      @Lex - you do realise by and large that the majority of the victims of the said violence you speak of are...wait for it.... Muslims! Those people are paying with their lives while you and I sit here posting on South African forums far far away. Something to think about.

      Zanu - 2011-06-27 16:06

      Why thank you Mojo. Guess the truth hurts, when your reality is utter BS. The world knows very well who the Palestinians are, and who thier leaders are (two diffrent things.) when you have to report back to Iran. Palestinians are denied access to health care and medication - really then why don’t they supply their people with health care - o yes - now I remember - so that people think there is a humanitarian disaster in Gaza, rather let you own people die for the cause right! sanitation - they must build toilets then - bloody beggars get billions in aid from the US, World Bank, Arab world & EU and they cant build a toilet – o yes – its all in Swiss bank accounts now (account holder – Hamas)... wait yes - its Israel's fault (so was 9.11, The Tsunami in Thailand & Japan, the earthquake in Christchurch and SA's farm killings.), building supplies - then stop building missiles - o I forgot, that’s higher grade. Clean water supply - you forgot the Champaign right; you can’t attack almost every day and then ask for water too… BTW, Israel supplies water, electricity and all the other basic needs – even after they are attacked almost every day? Show me another country under constant attack that treats its enemy so well. The Japs killed the Chinese. The Turks wiped out the Armenians and Kurds. The Allies ripped apart the axis of evil etc etc…

      Zanu - 2011-06-27 16:09

      (Continuation) The wall they erected is to save Israeli lives, and it has! So call it what you want... it stays until Palestinians choose peace. Human rights organisations have condemned Hamas' actions - that didn’t work... so its eye for an eye and now we are all blind. Toothless UN doesn't recognise Israel’s stolen land? Maybe cause its not stolen? Remember the land is disputed; West Bank used to belong to Jordan until they lost it in the war Jordan started, likewise Gaza belonged to Egypt, until Egypt lost it in that same war. There are Israeli Jewish organisations who speak out against the occupation - cause Israel is a democracy and anyone can voice their objection. However it is majority rule, and they have chosen; no more chances, renounce terror or live under occupation. You see, Israeli's don’t feel like rolling over and dieing so that Palestinians could travel freely to visit family and friends… I think they call it priorities. To conclude, Yes, the Palestinians are suffering, but at their own doings. In fact they are very lucky they have never had the chance to push Israel to the corner, cause if they had – people would be asking… what/who is a Palestinian??

      Paco7 - 2011-06-29 08:23

      well said !!!

  • Cornix - 2011-06-27 14:40

    The Bible warns the destiny of the World is inseparable from Israel and Jerusalem. The Bible says God would one day re-gather the children of Israel back into their land from among many nations around the world ... the Bible says they would be re-gathered in unbelief ... God warns He is not re-gathering the children of Israel into their Land because they deserve it, but because His Name and His Word are at stake (see Ezekiel 36:17-23) ... and because He loves them ... and they are His chosen people. The Bible warns God would then make Jerusalem a world trouble spot ... the Bible says all nations of the world will turn against Israel ... the Bible warns that during this time 'Gaza will be forsaken' ... This is exactly what is happening.

      Zee - 2011-06-27 15:21

      What kind of God only caters for "his chosen people"? Surely a loving God would be an all-encompassing one, with humility and a love for all his beings? Or did he create the universe for his people to dwell in and kill everyone else? I'm curious.

      Cornix - 2011-06-27 15:46

      Zee, God loves ALL mankind (yes, every single human being). Every human being is God's creation. That is a clear message in the Bible. The message of love applies to everybody. "His chosen people" specifically refers to the Jewish nation, because He made a covenant with them. However, that does NOT mean He condemns all other nations. Remember, Jews are also humans. That means they can also sin, do bad things and stray from God's path, but it doesn't mean the covenant between them and God is broken. It still stands.

      pierreedge - 2011-06-27 18:23

      Does the bible say anything about north joborg and fourways in particular? i guess not since we are just nothing and not his chosen people... to believe such non sense is scarry really

      pierreedge - 2011-06-27 18:38

      LOL, what a joke, so God love all mankind, but jews a bit more, or how can we put it, god created all men equal, but jews would be more equal than the others, then come christians, then come dogs and cats, and last come the muslims, the less equal of all in the mind of the isreal extremists we got on this forum. cornix is obviously jewish to believe such non sense. And to manipulate this covenant business like that show total ignorance, it's the torah who push this business arrangement, not the bible, christianity's view on this is a tad different.

      Cornix - 2011-06-27 20:40

      "cornix is obviously jewish to believe such non sense." Pierreedge, you know what, I've just now had such a good laugh. Thanks for making my evening. The way you exposed your ignorance here is scary, no actually hilarious. :) I am not Jewish, I am a Christian. :) And I believe this "scary nonsense". Now you can call me a lunatic. :) "it's the torah who push this business arrangement, not the bible, christianity's view on this is a tad different" Well, sorry to disappoint you, but we Christians do not believe a tad differently. Any Christian who does, does not know the Bible well enough and have some studying to do. It seems to me that somehow you honour the Bible, am I correct? Well, go read up on Bible prophecy, it is powerful and revealing stuff. The way the prophecy in the Bible is becoming true is ominous, isn't it?

  • M. Khoza - 2011-06-28 21:20

    "South Africa will not see freedom until the Palestinians see freedom" - NELSON MANDELA

      Zanu - 2011-06-29 06:13

      He also said that the only way forward for them is through peaceful negotiation... but their continued violence of bombs, rockets and terror has made Madiba throw in the towel on their support. Terrorism will not lead to freedom for the Palestinians... and as long as terror is sponsored by Iran, delivered by Hamas, Palestinian civilians will continue to suffer. Madiba has long ago given up on the Palestinians – when they voted for terror, and in by doing so, gave up on themselves.

  • end of earth - 2011-06-28 22:04

    hello battle4truth. Please before making uninformed comments(not even facts),verify your information and ensure that they are authentic facts(facts have been & can be fabricated)(therefore source of reference is of utmost importance). Incidentally the Jews,Christians,Magians,polytheists,atheists and Israelare mentioned several times in the Quraan.(i did my research),please do yours.(that is a suggestion, which you are free to ignore) May The Almighty enlighten you. ciao

  • end of earth - 2011-06-28 22:11

    hello cornix The jews were the chosen people (the operative word being were) they reneged on the convenant to God , and hence were relegated out of the favour of God. Remember it is not only what one reads but how one reads what one reads compounded by the ability to read on a level of abstraction and extract the essence of what one reads. Be selective and analytical. Bye for now.

      Zanu - 2011-06-29 06:18

      By the ability to read on a level of abstraction? The bible can’t change because you don’t like what you read. And God... well he doesn’t go back on his word / covenant. Like it or not… Those are His words… so go argue with Him if you got a problem with that.

  • Zanu - 2011-06-29 06:20

    The world is a fickle place -- Anti-Semitism hasn't gone away; it's merely morphed into hatred of Israel. The Jews will never be "loved". The world will love the Jews greatly were they to roll over and die, and that is not going to happen. which is why I will support them to the best of my ability. There are 50 Arab/Muslim nations. There is only one Jewish nation - and it is the size of the Kruger National Park.

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