News24

US church bans mixed-race couples

2011-12-03 14:35

Louisville - When Stella Harville brought her black boyfriend to her family's all-white church in rural Kentucky, she thought nothing of it. She and Ticha Chikuni worshipped there whenever they were in town, and he even sang before the congregation during one service.

Then in August, a member of Gulnare Free Will Baptist Church told Harville's father that Chikuni, who is from Zimbabwe, couldn't sing there anymore. And last Sunday, in a moment that seems from another time, church members voted 9-6 to bar mixed-race couples from joining the congregation.

The policy has drawn a firestorm of criticism in just a few days and sent church leaders scrambling to overturn it, which could happen as soon as Sunday. The executive secretary of the church's national organisation said he has been inundated with angry phone calls, and had an inch-high stack of e-mails printed out on his desk.

'Not racist'

"We are not a group of racist people," said Keith Burden of the National Association of Free Will Baptists. "We have been labelled that obviously because of the actions of nine people."

The resolution approved by the Gulnare church says it does not condone interracial marriage and "parties of such marriages will not be received as members, nor will they be used in worship services and other church functions, with the exception being funerals".

Voting on the resolution wasn't announced in church and ballots were cast after the service, attended by about 35 to 40 people.

The church member and former pastor who pushed for the vote, Melvin Thompson, wouldn't tell The Associated Press why he did it.

"I am not racist. I will tell you that. I am not prejudiced against any race of people, have never in my lifetime spoke evil" about a race, Thompson said earlier this week in a brief interview. "That's what this is being portrayed as, but it is not."

Thompson stepped down as pastor earlier this year for health reasons, according to Harville's dad, Dean Harville. He said it was Thompson who told him that Chikuni couldn't sing at the church, a small, one-storey red brick building with few windows and a white steeple.

After giving interviews earlier this week, the church's current pastor, Stacy Stepp, and several other church members did not return phone calls on Friday. One of the members said they were shocked. Stepp said he voted against the measure and would work to overturn it.

The national group distanced itself from the resolution in a statement Thursday, saying it "neither condemns nor disallows" interracial marriage.

It said the church was working to reverse its policy and added, "We encourage the church to follow through with this action."

Betrayed

Harville, who is now engaged to Chikuni, said earlier this week that she felt betrayed by the church. "Whether they keep the vote or overturn it, it's going to be hard for me go back there," she told the AP.

Gulnare is a small town in eastern Kentucky. The county celebrates its Appalachian heritage in the spring with the Hillbilly Days Festival in downtown Pikeville, the county seat, and the Apple Blossom Festival in Elkhorn City, according to a tourism website.

Harville is working on her master's degree in optical engineering at an Indiana college. She met Chikuni at Georgetown College in central Kentucky. "It's like we were kind of blindsided," she said.

More than 40 years ago, the US Supreme Court knocked down a Virginia statute barring whites from marrying non-whites, overturning bans in 15 other states. But while interracial marriages have soared since then, many churches remain largely segregated.

Curtiss Paul DeYoung, a professor at Bethel College who has studied interracial churches, said church members opposed to a more diverse church usually just go somewhere else.

"Rarely today do you see it so blatantly come to a vote. Usually people just leave but they don't say much about it," DeYoung said. "I think this is still one of the last hurdles around race for a lot of folks in this country. It's just rarely stated this bluntly."

The Free Will Baptists trace their history to the 18th century. They emphasized the Arminian doctrine of free will, free grace, and free salvation, in contrast to most Baptists, who were Calvinists and believed Christ died only for those predestined to be saved.

There are some 4 200 churches worldwide. The National Association of Free Will Baptists organised in Nashville, Tennessee, in 1935 and is now based in Antioch, Tennessee.

The group said in its statement that the denomination has no official policy regarding interracial couples "because it has not been an issue".

Comments
  • Chum Scrubber - 2011-12-03 14:58

    It obviously IS an issue with more people than they believe. She has freedom of choice, if I was her I'd go to another church, does she really want to mix with those people?

      Jack - 2011-12-03 16:05

      The same who probably happend if a black brought his/her white partner to an all black african church.

      piet.strydom - 2011-12-03 21:16

      Fred, You are wrong in just about every comment made in your post: Invisible man in the sky - The post modernist world view has come to accept that not everything can be explained by science, and that there are some metaphysical aspects to the universe as well. Money to be extracted - while there are charlatans that are just after the money, religious people do a huge amount of charity work, just look around you in SA and Africa, think about Mother Theresa's Sisters of Mercy etc, etc. Ridiculous scriptures - You make a general statement, which can neither be proven or disproven. What is a fact, is that Christ said the most important thing is to love God above all else, and your neighbour as yourself. Not too violent. And BTW, while people often complain about violence in the Old Testament, remember that when Israel moved into the promised land, the existing people practised sarificing of their first borns. That is why God gave the instructions for those people to be eradicated. Where the people stopped that practise, they were saved.

      werner.smidt - 2011-12-04 01:23

      Fred, you're pretty naive to assume that religion is the only thing by which people can be exploited. Antisemitism . . ahem . . Hitler was an atheist, but whatever. The "double bill (or is it Bill?)" in this statement "the preachermen promote hat(r)ed and discrimination against homosexuals." intrigues me. Being a scientist and all, I can see how something as pure as Science can be exploited for some or other political gain. See, from history it seems people that can explain things, are usually in charge. Bottom line, the problem isn't religion/communism/totalitarianism/whatever . . the problem is human nature. It becomes increasingly difficult not to be misanthropic.

      Eugene - 2011-12-04 02:34

      The Slip, you are talking out of your nose! Hitler was not an Antheist! Have you ever heard his speeches? He mentioned God more than ANY other guy out there! Most of the "Jews" which was involved in the 2nd world war was KHAZARIAN and was not SEMITES!...Maybe you should go read why over hundreds of years the Jews where thrown out of over 100 European Christian nations? Do you like child molesters because being a homosexual is the same preverseness which corrups people and its against nature! No the real problem is with your lack of knowledge, because you know nothing of what you are talking about. There is nothing new under the sun!

      Riaan - 2011-12-04 07:26

      Eugene, you're an ass.

      Ettiene - 2011-12-04 07:27

      Jack you @ss!! You have to try and make it black as well hey? Well prick!! ..this DID happen in a white church and not "probably" in a black one.

      werner.smidt - 2011-12-04 10:56

      @Eugene ROFL, Eugene . . "Do you like child molesters because being a homosexual is the same preverseness which corrups people and its against nature!" Are you high? Anyhoo, I am heterosexual, but that's not really the point here. Should I surmise that, from your skinhead nature, you are a hard-line NAZI? Perhaps not that, no. Perhaps just an angry kid that sometimes makes the unfortunate "its" and "corrups" type-o. An Hitler wasn't a Christian, he just used Christianity as an arguments against the Jews, i.e. they were responsible for Christ's death. Anyhoo, I think Fred's use of antisemitism implies all Jews. I have to thank you for providing a good example of the human nature I was talking about. See, you don't provide any arguments and poorly constructed insult. I guess most people snort when you talk, hence the whole "talking through my nose" jibe. See, reading most of your comments one can easily see that you're a bit of a self-pitying narcissist and I find it pretty darn ironic (moronic, actually) that you will use Bible verses to substantiate what you say. Back to the article, though. Why does it irk so much? Did a black guy take your girl . . . ? Was it a physical thing? Rumour has it they're pretty endowed, but I have all the confidence that your rage doesn't boil down to something simple as a penis issue. PS: If you like quoting the Old Testament so much, perhaps you should sacrifice a lamb ;-)

      Blink - 2011-12-04 11:26

      @TheSlip Eugene does look like new Nazi. The funny thing is christians don't need the devil to turn people away from God - they just need people like Eugene.

      Eugene - 2011-12-04 11:34

      The pity is on you...I stand for a MORAL SOCIETY. For preserving that what GOD made! Maybe stop watching tv before you call people skin head and nazi, because i am neither. Strange how people who has no basis just reverts to name calling like yourself. Lets have a look at a double standard: The Jews themself force their children to mary only to other Jews, They say Israel for the Jews, They dont give you citizen ship unless your a jew. Yet when i want this for our own people, so that we can have true peace and a God loving country you call me names.......

      werner.smidt - 2011-12-04 11:43

      "Strange how people who has no basis just reverts to name calling like yourself." I was giving an example of a sweeping statement, but whatever. I think I overestimate your ability to see satire. To be clear . . I have no basis of ...? That's not name calling, that's just a fact. Calling you narcissist is my (I guess futile) attempt to address your personal issues, which you're begging for people to help you recognize. You remain mum on the last bit. . Anyway, I won't suffer a fool. You have a good day now. Love thy neighbour..oh wait..relationships between people don't matter, do they? ;-)

      Zebelon - 2011-12-04 14:55

      Jack - evidently you have never entered a church door, and you are totally blind.

      Sharkshoot - 2011-12-04 16:44

      The Zimbo should join the Scientologists. There they don't care what colour you are as long as your wallet is very fat.

      Louis - 2011-12-04 17:09

      If i prefer/like the companmy of white people or black people does that make me racist. This women just wanted her 15 minutes of fame and wow if it's white racism it really is blown out of proportion and around the world. I can assure you there are 10 nay 100 time more black on white racisnt incedents that we never hear of. Those dragging the bible into this should know the bible is full of racism.I also prefer the company of women, does that make me anti-gay

      Wayne - 2011-12-05 09:16

      @ theslip HITLER WAS NEVER AN ATHEIST !!!! HE WAS INFACT CATHOLIC

  • jsibasa1 - 2011-12-03 15:33

    The reasons why that church ban that Zimbabwean boy its beacause it is in Zimbabwe that whites are hounded out and their property taken with approval from Robert Mugabe. It is in that country alone that genocide was comitted and those who comitted it are still in power.

      Vuyo - 2011-12-03 17:43

      jsibasa and who made this poor man from Zimbabwe the representative of that government? WTF? It's not his fault?

      Takudzwa - 2011-12-03 22:03

      Come on man..don't be an idiot.What did u eat?.There are over 3500 people who died in Zimbabwe in the past 12yrs due to government killings and out of those only 16 were whites.Out of 3480 farms which were taken , over 100 belongs to native African families.Genocide is genocide black or white.In actual fact , South Africa has killed more white farmers than those died in Zimbabwe and for that you should be ashamed and condemn it if you are more concerned with genocide....and that is the true evil ethnic cleansing which is happening in broad day light.

      Ettiene - 2011-12-04 07:29

      Dude, take of your glases..ur probably stoned out of ur mind hey!

      Mantsho - 2011-12-04 14:54

      Me too l was thinking the same thing, but you know not all the people in Zimabwe agree with that goverment,maybe he is one of them,who knows?

      Sterling - 2011-12-04 15:55

      The whites in Kentucky don't know where Zimbabwean is on the map. All some of these people know is this young man is black and should not be going out with a white girl. One must remember that in many parts of the southern part of the US, many people are still fighting the civil war and blame the blacks for causing them to lose the war. Speaking of the bible, many slave owners used the bible to justify slavery in the US. As a matter of facts, there were passages in the bible that were quoted by them saying that god created the blacks to be slaves. The slave owners also said that god cursed the blacks when they were created and they were only 1/5 of a human being. So the point I am making that religion can be used to justify an evil in the world.

  • Shirley - 2011-12-03 15:46

    To each his own. Get another church. Unfortunately you cannot force a person to change his beliefs of what he/she perceives should be allowed in a church

      Eugene - 2011-12-03 16:17

      False! Did Jesus walk arround with people believing their own religion, No! He gave them a message those who believe and accepted it followed him. The new testament says..2 Cor 6:14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? You honestly need to start reading your Bible! Because your religion has been nutured! Theres right and wrong, you cannot "accept" everything!

      TheWatcher - 2011-12-03 17:34

      @Eugene: You seem to have read the bible but missed out on all the important bits. Go try again.

      Eugene - 2011-12-04 02:09

      The Watcher, thats your opinion, opinions differs from the aspect of knowledge....so maybe you should instead of "Judging" me hold yourself up to your own standards and ask yourself, do you really know that much? I have studied most my Bible and history....Yet when im with preachers and we discuss the Bible i leave them speachless while using the word to show them what "most" people like yourself claim as fact to contradict the Bible. Its easy to point the finger, its harder to obey and understand the word. It takes more than a fev sundays in a church seat or watching tv you know.... I will show you things that will raise hair on your back,,.. and we can go to the original scrips with the original laungages as well...no problem!

      Stephanus - 2011-12-05 08:05

      @Eugene Both these people are believers, they both attended congregation before this event. So that is not the case here, it is regarding the mixed-race relationship and frankly, I don't think the church has a foot to stand on regarding the decision of banning all mixed race couples. I can't find fault with two people worshipping God together in their relationship, regardless of their race. I agree with Shirley, they should find a new church that accepts them and they will.

      LouisC - 2011-12-05 11:29

      @Eugene - I think your point was lost. Are you saying that this church is not preaching the true word of God, or are you saying they are correct in not allowing a mixed race couple?

      gregoryp82 - 2011-12-05 12:40

      @Eugene... Dude seriously what theological college did you study at.... Maybe go read " Cor6:14 in context!! Unequally yoked means, nonbelievers. You muppet!!!

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-05 15:45

      @Eugene, I am sure you leave the preachers speechless.

  • Charmaine - 2011-12-03 16:07

    God is One, the Source and Center of All Affairs,We, as Human Beings are always disputing about the color of our Skins. God created all of us equal in His Sight, So, how can we have World Peace amongst The Human Race if this sort of behavior continues? There is Only One God and One Jesus Christ. I wonder what these "White" humans will do and say when Jesus comes again and He is A Dark Skinned Man! To my knowledge as an Individual Dark Skinned Human Being, the apartheid system of the past was also practiced here in South Africa, The Whites did not want me sitting in their Church, but we dark skinned humans were good enough for these "White" men to use and abuse sexually. This will come to an end very soon, as the "White" women will be chasing after the "Black" men. Today2011, the so called "White" Men need us black people to come into their churches here in south Africa, they should preach to their own People. In the end, God will judge between what is right and wrong. Stop Disputing, we all need each other to survive on this Planet Earth which we all share. Blessed be.

      Pennylope - 2011-12-04 13:26

      It's a piece of the world. Ha ha.

  • Sharon Dreyer - 2011-12-03 16:25

    Some real misguided religious crack pots on here trying to condone their bigotry with quotes from the bible. Shame, a church should be for all, G

      Fred - 2011-12-03 16:47

      There god tells then to behave this way.

      Eugene - 2011-12-04 02:05

      Ag shame Sharon, i feel sorry for you. If you have a problem with the Word of God dont blame me for pointing it out. As you know it was inspired by God, so you should ask yourself a very serious question f you dont agree with the text. You guys are so Communistic, Babilonian driven you dont even have a IDEA of your own heritage, Famous historical quotes from some of our greatest leaders.....theres more to the world than your littel preacher with his "World chruch" teachings and Tv......Im sorry to blow up your Bubble but the Bible says that there wil never be a Cananite in his congregation, people of mixed heritage (Go read Nehimia ans)...no point talking to you because you have no knowledge of the Bible..yes i feel very sorry for you.

      Martin - 2011-12-05 07:47

      Eugene, our heritage was burnt at the stake by your false god

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-05 16:09

      Actually, Sharon, there is only 1 on here that fits your definition. There is nothing in the Bible that condones the behaviour of this church.

  • david.lebethe - 2011-12-03 16:32

    The story has indeed set teh tongues waging. I really feel for the poor lady whose family is going to be a subject of ridicule by racists in the community. All that the couple could do is to hold their heads high and pray that God shows Himself among the racists.

  • Shirley - 2011-12-03 16:49

    EUgene: didnt say you can! What I said was to each his own-ie. Icannot force what I may be perceived to be right/wrong onto someone else and beating my chest isnt going to change his mind! So get off your preacher box and dont dare have the audacity to think you know what I know or do not know about the bible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Eugene - 2011-12-04 02:26

      Why not? So you may tell people whatever you like, spread lies and undermine me based on your opinion? I can prove facts from scripture and science to prove my point..will you show me to discovery channel? Your double think is really something amazing! And yes...i do mean what i say..you have no idea what your Bible is all about! maybe stop reading a sentance a day to make you feel good and start to try understand the mind of the God you pray to....Your battle is not with me, its with the peopel who made oyu believe lies and yourself for not knowing your own Bible.

      werner.smidt - 2011-12-04 11:06

      @Eugene How can we undermine you, when clearly . . you've reached rock bottom? :) By the way, "double think" is actually one word: "doublethink".

  • TheWatcher - 2011-12-03 17:21

    As a Christian I am disgusted at this conduct.

      TheWatcher - 2011-12-03 19:28

      @Fred: Were you molested by a priest as a kid?

      Fred - 2011-12-03 19:41

      No, I was lucky enough to escape that. Tens of thousands of kids world wide are raped by Christian preachermen every year. I was lucky, I guess.

      Shannon - 2011-12-03 19:49

      Kind of interesting, Fred, that you have commented on an article about religion more than any other person on this board. Not only do you have too much time on your hands (it's a nice day man, get outside), but what's it to you if people find value in a belief system? You do your thing, they'll do theirs. That you get so worked up and offended by it says far more about you than it does about them.

      TheWatcher - 2011-12-03 19:54

      Glad to hear it, that is a terrible problem and not enough is being done to fix it. The church is not free from bad individuals preying on broken people. But then why such strong anti-christian/religious views? Somebody must have done something to you or someone close to you? Parents force you to go to church? School force you to sit through boring sermons every morning? Some bible basher spend an extraordinary amount of time trying to ram the bible down your throat?

      piet.strydom - 2011-12-03 21:31

      Fred, the US style of government is secular, and it is growing more secular every year. So why is religion still going strong? Why is religion expanding rapidly into Africa? At least your not a Dawkins supporter that claims we need t follow the religion of science....

      Bronwyn - 2011-12-04 01:28

      @ Fred... seriously mate! where did you get those figures. Impressive for someone who does not believe in God? If not then why quote the bible?

      Eugene - 2011-12-04 02:30

      Do you call yourself a Christian? So please explain to us what does it mean to be a Christian? What is the Jesus priesthoods name? From what teachings did Jesus base his New testament? If you are a Christian, then you should also call Cananites DOGS because if you walk in Christ then you should follow his lead?...so what now? If you follow Christ, why do you abolish is Fathers LAW, when he himself said he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill? Since if you do not have Christ you do not have is Father also? Who can be called Children of God? Who dod Jesus come to save? Please awnser these questions and let me show you out of your OWN BIBLE what you seem to have never read before!.. and yes its an actual challenge, i hope your sitting.....

      Pennylope - 2011-12-04 13:30

      You are so sad Eugene.

      piet.strydom - 2011-12-05 01:03

      Eugene, you talk a lot but say very little. Let me answer your two most important questions: Jesus came to save everybody that believes in him - God so loved the world that he gave His Son, so that whoever believes in Him will never be lost. Joh 3:16 And that applies to both Jew and Gentile - Paul in Romans, and Peter in Acts, where he ate clean and unclean food by analogy.

      Device - 2011-12-05 10:52

      @Eugene, I have to agree with an earlier observation that someone made regarding your comments: You really have learned everything about the bible except what is most important.

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-05 16:06

      @Eugene,, rather why do you not supply us with the answers to the questions you have give, and provide the scriptures to back up each answer.

  • poaul - 2011-12-03 19:09

    Much like the Afrikaans NG KERK openly applied and condoned racism. Disgusting bunch of morally bankrupt people...

      emile.eley - 2011-12-03 21:19

      Fred we get the point. May God bless you abundantly and soften your heart.

      Eugene - 2011-12-04 02:53

      Psalm 139:21 Do I not hate those who hate you, O LORD, and abhor those who rise up against you? Fred i will not bless you, because you do not deserve it!

      J-Man - 2011-12-05 08:26

      So now Eugene may decide who gets to be "blessed" and who doesn't. Doesn't your religion say forgive all no matter what? So if someone does something 'wrong' in your eyes, forgive him. And move on. You are exactly proving the point that we have with religion etc. Always these double standards, and everyone uses only the parts of the scripture and rules that suits them, and when it suits them. Pathetic.

  • Ian - 2011-12-03 21:14

    the damn south again, scourge of the US

  • Cracker - 2011-12-03 21:39

    If you want to insist to belong to and form a family or spiritual (? fool) companionship with a church (church?) exclusively for blacks, whites, aliens, satanists, atheists, same sex partners, etc, etc, and so on ad infinitum, go ahead. If they don't welcome you, why should anybody care? Just don't make your silly insistence to belong the problem of others or a dispute for the legal system. Nobody should really care about your strange desires to belong to a group that does not really welcome you. What is a flippin little racist/non-racist church after all in the bigger scheme of things? Magtig man, grow up!

  • Shoe - 2011-12-03 22:50

    Denying this hopelessly poor young man his only chance of getting out poverty. C'mon people. Give the brother a break!!!

      Mildly_Amused - 2011-12-05 12:46

      eh what?!?!

      Merven - 2011-12-05 14:40

      How is anyone denying him his only chance of getting out of poverty? Stay with the topic.

  • Vivian - 2011-12-04 04:44

    Nah they aint not racist, the land of the free, the so called leaders of the world and this is how they still act, damn but Americans are the worlds worst hypocrites and I know as I am working for an American company but not for much longer

  • boby.mafi - 2011-12-04 05:44

    Not so much of free will in that Church just some raced one!The prejudiced former pastor says he is not racist so what does he think he is a god who classifies those fit or whitey enough to worship and receive salvation from a color blind God?

  • Kevin - 2011-12-04 06:48

    In what way is this different from the racist ANC policy of Affirmative Action...? Answers on a postcard please to P.O. Box 1 BEE Luthuli House, for the attention of J. Zooma....

  • Marc57 - 2011-12-04 07:35

    Look, Ms Harville, obviously the good folk at the Gulnare Free Will Baptist Church did a bit of reading up on their current affairs (not something those folk are famous for) and discovered that a fellow Zimbabwean of your boyfriends homeland, Mister Wobbit Mugabe, had turned the glorious Anglican Cathedral of Harare, the Cathedral of St Mary and All Saints, into a no-holds barred whore-house through the good offices of one his pimp ZANU-PF mates. Absolute solid facts by the way. So, even if they barred him for other reasons, I too, as the chief padre of that particular parish, would also be a tad nervous about any Zimbabweans lurking in the vicinity. But, all is not lost because, after all, it’s Kentucky, so why not give church a miss this Sunday and head off for some of their famous southern fried chicken – a real hit with folk like va Chikuni.

  • Mary - 2011-12-04 07:55

    You gotta admire those hillbillies for standing up for their convictions. They might all be black in a few generations if they let Chikuni's Zimbabwean sperm loose on their inbred community - horrors!

  • Tshivhombela Fhatuwani - 2011-12-04 08:28

    Christianity by nature is racist and if I may refer you Ibrahim era when he had a child with his servant, what transpired after that incident was truly abusive, racial and sexist. I still wander how can someone still oppose mixed race relationships when their black domestic workers always get sacked with their pregnancies. Their wives on the other hand entertain their garden boys. Love and death are great levellers of all the time.

      Ian - 2011-12-04 09:22

      good point, except not just christianity but religeon as a whole, all the same bs

      Eugene - 2011-12-04 11:23

      Ian,, the Jews of today are not the Jews of the Bible! 125 Bc John Macabees defeated Edom in war, He then forced them to convert to Judiusm, Edom then was named Idumea. Anitpas then made sure his son Herododus became the unlawful king over Judea. Heordus then imported a Babilionian priest and others amongst his friends to be priests in the temple. The 1925 Jewish encyclopedia says: That the biggest part of Jews today are Edom! The Khazarian empire also converted to Judiusm, so these people are not semites but Khazarians from Russia. Revelation 2:9 9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Revelation 3:9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. Be carefull who you call a jew, because the false jews has the talmud which says that Jesus was a fraud, Mary slept with a Roman soldier, all Christians must die. These false people will also rebuild the temple and pray to the antichrist!....because the dont accept Jesus they are waiting for their own Messias...

      Eugene - 2011-12-04 11:30

      The first Egyptians was white people, called the Hykso's. Let me try explain to you what happened: Sarai means a women of Nobility. And the pomise could not go throug her to be a blessing/ preisthood. She was a slave and the child was created because they did not wait for God to deliver. If he stayed with them he would of suppressed/ he already started taunting his little brother, his brother and would of eventually hated his brother just like Esau en Jacob. Esaue wanted to kill Jacob because he received the blessings.

      Merven - 2011-12-05 14:43

      @Tshivhombela: Maybe you mustn't wander to far from school...

  • Ian - 2011-12-04 09:20

    You got to love those rednecks, in 1985 the southern states were very quick to put there hands up in favour of sanctions against south africa yet they practice the same level of discrimination in 2011 if not worse, bet you they even keep slaves, hyprocrits

      atleeyarrow - 2011-12-04 14:39

      @Ian. In speaking of "hypocrisy" here and calling out racism, it is ignorance on your part to use the racist anti-white word "redneck". Your bigotry is noted and your stupidity is priceless.

  • Freddie - 2011-12-04 09:29

    It is quit funny and interesting the manner scripture is misinterpretate. Firstly. Some is saying that the Old Testament is against interracial marriages. What about Ruth and the prostitude when Jerico was invaded. Out of that bloodline Jesus was born. Secondly. The apostle Paul is mentioning that in Christ there is no Jew or Gentile. So we all are a family of God. The insident in the USA thus must by rejected as discrimating and insulting the image of God, that is his children.

  • Jean-Marc - 2011-12-04 09:41

    I think all of you falls who've been commenting and infighting between each other have failed to see the BIGGER picture here. ALL RELIGION is holding back man kind from progressing with his future of technology and peace. You guys quoting lines from the bible are jokers man, seriously, its a adults fiction fantasy novel - get over it and get an education.

      atleeyarrow - 2011-12-04 14:43

      You are entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts. Telling people ANYWHERE what they can and cannot believe is a form of communistic oppression... oh wait, isn't that the ANC motto?

  • Ian - 2011-12-04 09:46

    it was also one of these loony churches that President Obama went to whose pastor in one of his sermons stated thet Obama must reject the jewish vote, go figure

  • Eugene - 2011-12-04 11:08

    Let me explain something that no one of you mention. Israel was selected as a royal priesthood, God walked with them and chose them alone as he gave his laws to them! Because of Abraham whom was a friend of God, because he obeyed God. The Bible is about living with the right morals, giving each nation their own country and not to intermix with them because in the Bibles eyes it is a sexual crime. Thats why they sent the mixed raced people away in the desert, in Nehimia they did the same.... Why does God not like Mongrols, because its a abomination which he did not make. Israel was blessed by God, thats wht 99% of the Bible was written to ISRAEL alone, for if Israel is to obey God then they would be a blessing to the other nations Jesus came to restore, and when he does he will first destroy his enemies..yes he would come to destroy! After that he would reign, and stay amongst his people the Israelites and the nations saved with them will dwlee in the light thereoff, and hand over the Kingdom back to His Heavenly Father. Please consider this before you slant the word of God again!

      Vuyo - 2011-12-04 12:05

      Ok Eugene! you are really on a roll here. Actually in your element to disperse your extensive interpretation of the bible. We get it. I honestly hope that you believe in contraception. You are a danger to anyone immediately involved with you. You have CULT written all over you and anyone connected to you should be careful, really careful. One more thing, you honestly can't prescribe to and condemn people who don't share your believe system. It's backward and immature and you should seriously consider expanding your reading material. Shouldn't you be in church or ministering to the unenlightened somewhere in stead of sitting in front of your computer trying to impress people who clearly doesn't give a Sht?

      Pennylope - 2011-12-04 13:35

      If only Eugene put as much effort into his English language skills as he does into his Bible study....perhaps we could understand him.

      Tamuka - 2011-12-04 15:14

      @Eugene. your knowledge of the scriptures is commendable. but what you fail to realise is that the Old testament is filled "types" and "shadows" of what was yet to come in the dispensation of grace.intermarriages were forbidden for the nation of Israel in Nehemiah because the women from other nations did not fear God and would eventually influence their spouses to move away from their faith e.g. Solomon, he had a good start but ended up in idolatry and only repented when i was advanced in years. the other thing that intermarriages represented was worldly ideologies. God wants his people to be separated unto him. But in the dispensation of grace intermarriages are not forbidden.if u look a little closer at the old testament you will see some interesting things...for example Moses, God's mighty prophet was married to an Ethiopian woman, Zipporah! Zipporah was black. Mirriam and some other people were disgusted by this. God was upset that Moses' wife was condescended. Other example is Ruth she was not Hebrew. She was an Moabitess she married Boaz. Another example is Rahab, she a prostitute but because of her faith her life and those of her loved ones were preserved and she married a hebrew man and became a part of jesus' lineage. what's my point? God is a God of love. the very essence of God is love. the moment you segregate and hurt others you are no longer insync with God. I'm always amazed at how people argue over their racial differences.

      Tamuka - 2011-12-04 15:20

      I'm always amazed at how people argue over their racial differences.i'm a medical doctor and i have dealt with all sorts of people. rich and poor. black,white,yellow,orange you name it. people are very similar in so many ways.pain is pain it has no race.grief is just grief it has no race.all respond the same to sickness, anxiety etc. the love of God is released to all black,white etc, rich or poor,racist or non-racist. God loves all. if u live in the realm of love you will never be the same. Eugene i encourage you to read the bible with this perspective. God is LOVE.

      Gordon - 2011-12-04 16:06

      Eugene - It's people like you that make atheism seem like a Utopian existences. So according to you apartheid was god's will?

      aardvarkie - 2011-12-05 08:04

      Eugene I nominate you for the Darwin Award. The blisters on your hand from thumping on your Bible probably reflect your painfully dull existence. If you studied any history, first you would know that the Bible was recorded by separate "saints" and eventually compiled into one book. These saints recorded versions of stories passed down through generations by word of mouth. Have you ever played "broken telephone" when you were a kid? Never mind the fact that humans have evolved somewhat over the last 2000 years, and those bigoted laws of "God" don't have any place in modern society. You may note also that Christianity in it's crusade to force people to abide by it's belief system burned and tortured hundreds of thousand of people. Those countries where it could not completely destroy the prevalent faith it absorbed into Christianity - a case in point is Paganism. Well there are hundreds of historically factual books I could talk about here but I suggest you dust off your library card. Also, I don't know if you have heard of Hitler who envisioned a perfect race - but ironically you have stated that you admire the Nazi's - just replace "Mongrels" with "Jews". In total, this makes you a Nazi loving ignoramus who would probably be better off in a deep south redneck trailer park, most comfortable standing on a rusted truck in your front yard preaching the "End of Days".

      Marc - 2011-12-05 11:51

      Hell boet ,you are one confused and lost soul. Do youself a favour and read a copy of "a new earth" by Eckhart Tolle. It will do you a world of good and deliver you from this struggle you seem to exist in.

      Mashudu - 2011-12-05 13:24

      LMAO, Is this a Joke?,Pathetic. GOD Loves us all and we are all his Children black/white.

      Samantha - 2011-12-05 14:46

      well said Aadvarkie!

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-05 15:59

      Oh boy, Eugene. You may be able to cite the scripture but you have no clue as to what it says. Which Bible have you read? Or have you not got past the Hebrew scriptures? Wait until you get to the second half where you find out that Israel (the Jews) rejected Jesus and that a new "spiritual Israel" now has a convenant with God by accpting Jesus. This "spiritual Israel" is made up of people from all the nations.

      Sunshine - 2011-12-05 20:40

      Here's an idea Eugene. Why don't you go back to the farm, get on your horse (try not to fall off), pack up the old ox wagon and take a trek down the N1. When you get to Cape Town keep going south, don't worry the waters will separate at the announcement of your arrival, carry on and eventually you will come to The Great White Continent where you and your friends can live your lives in the splendid isolation you think is owed to you. Please remember to let the rest of the human race know when you get there so we can get on with the future.

  • Rodney - 2011-12-04 11:59

    I have a better idea, the world should boycott America, we should bring sanctions against them and ban them from all international sport. What? Why can't we? They did the same to ALL South Africans because of a bunch of zealous idiots didn't they? Lets punish ALL Americans for the stupidity of a bunch of them. Good ol' Kentucky, where your cousin could very well be your spouse and your sister is your lover. lol.

      atleeyarrow - 2011-12-04 14:49

      Talk about a stereotyping and bigoted comment! I have been to KY many times and clearly you have not. Most of KY supported freeing slaves during the Civil War and the state tends to vote liberal on social issues but back conservative perspectives in rational and logical outcomes in representation.

      Rodney - 2011-12-04 19:33

      Clearly you can't recognise sarcasm if it ran up and hit you in the face. Pity, because you don't look that stupid. and no, that wasn't sarcasm. ;)

  • Bobo - 2011-12-04 13:02

    To all of you fighting and calling eacother names and swearing at one another : Peace be with you. May the Lord keep you and protect you. May you Love each other one day.... as God loved you before your creation. Remeber people, we can make peace and even start blessing every one, but if there is no love it means nothing ! It`s a difficult thing to do isn`t it ?... Jesus did it.

  • Cheryl - 2011-12-04 13:49

    well done south africa...we are now A more united nation than the USA...

      Gordon - 2011-12-04 16:11

      LOL not with Eugene around, he's likely to bomb our @sses to keep everyone separate.

  • Niki - 2011-12-04 14:58

    Genetic analyses show increasingly that humans have been migrating and mixing since time immemorial. The closest one comes to "pure" peoples are peoples who have been isolated greographically, linguistically and/or culturally for a very long time. A good example of such a nation is the Finns, whose conservation - intentional or not - of racial purity has rewarded them with around 30 unique genetic diseases found nowhere else in the world. In genetic terms, the opposite of "hybrid" is "inbred".

  • Louis - 2011-12-04 17:07

    If i prefer/like the companmy of white people or black people does that make me racist. This women just wanted her 15 minutes of fame and wow if it's white racism it really is blown out of proportion and around the world. I can assure you there are 10 nay 100 time more black on white racisnt incedents that we never hear of. Those dragging the bible into this should know the bible is full of racism.I also prefer the company of women, does that make me anti-gay

      Refilwe IronMan Rakoma - 2011-12-04 20:51

      Your logic is twisted. Imagine if the ANC said we like white people just not in our country.

      Merven - 2011-12-05 14:48

      Um Refilwe, wake up, that is exactly what the ANC is telling us with AA and BEE.

  • John - 2011-12-04 18:11

    Hmmmm... Good way to get a green card and all that goes with it.

  • bonga.mateta - 2011-12-05 07:11

    I find it disturbing that christians in this day & age can be such blatant racists.

  • aardvarkie - 2011-12-05 07:45

    Just another story proving how ridiculous, backward and hypocritical religion is.

  • J-Man - 2011-12-05 08:23

    Bunch of racist hypocrites. Typical.

  • J-Man - 2011-12-05 08:23

    Bunch of racist hypocrites. Typical.

  • cheyna.stewart - 2011-12-05 08:24

    another example of how religion is dictated by man and not 'GOD'. load of rubbish if you ask me! the difference between cults and christians is very blurred in this day and age.

  • AntiThesis - 2011-12-05 09:06

    "Free Will Baptists Church" Now there's an irony for you.

  • Rohin - 2011-12-05 09:31

    again, the hypocrisy of man's role in religion rears its head.

  • Moi - 2011-12-05 09:52

    @ Eugene - I've read all your posts and I can honestly say, I feel sorry for you. It must be hard to go through life with so much hate and dislike for your fellow human beings.

  • Frankie - 2011-12-05 10:01

    Absolutely scandelous.

  • ludlowdj - 2011-12-05 10:38

    God and religion are mortal enemies and always will be. The bible as it stands, is the same as every other so called religious books nothing more than man made deception to control the masses. Modern man cannot survive religion. You Christians all expect to go to heaven, when the bible you hold so dear and which forms the basis of every argument you have clearly states that most will not see the kingdom of heaven, look down Christians the well worn road you walk is paved with good intentions, but you will never see heaven.

  • Shirley - 2011-12-05 10:43

    Eugene: For someone who is so "well versed" on the bible you are everything the bible teaches against! HATE AND JUDGEMENT! Move on or move out! Its people like you who give religion a bad name! Shame on you!!!!

      OzzyIn - 2011-12-05 15:52

      I think what he means by "well versed" is that he read it once but did not understand it.

  • Marc - 2011-12-05 11:46

    Religiously confused people are ruining the world. For the record, the slip knocks out Eugene in 2 rounds

  • Marion - 2011-12-05 11:48

    As a Christian I have to wonder if they would have told Barack Obama that he wasn't welcome to enter their church, even less worship in it?

  • rheinhardt.peens - 2011-12-05 12:51

    A comedy spin on this,beware lots of cussing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV-2j5Mz3e8&feature=autoplay&list=UU69y0hZJEiF_drrxE50VLTQ&lf=plcp&playnext=3

  • Mashudu - 2011-12-05 13:13

    Can't believe this is happening in Church. It's pathetic

  • Shane - 2011-12-05 15:25

    The irony of this all is that a large percentage of the people in the world like to use their rights as (humans) to express their freedoms, like their freedom of choice, movement, religion, sexual orientation, and even partners. But woe be tide those who express these very same freedoms by objecting to one of the above. The church or the congregation did not impose upon them, they imposed upon the church and indirectly implied that they must accept it, with no regard as to how the congregation felt, in other words this is what I want and you must accept it, or else you racist etc etc. Some people however do not like or think it is right to mix races or be gay. Surely all of you can try to respect their rights as much as you want them to respect yours, or is it all one sided.

  • Bryan - 2011-12-05 16:02

    All in the name of religion..! All I ask is why there are so many differing denominations of the Christian faith? Dont you all believe in the same God? If so, why is there so much in-fighting within the faith? Too many Charletons,too many crooks.... Rather just believe in yourself as your own God because when things go pear-shaped.., then you answer only to yourself..!!!

  • khutso.b - 2011-12-05 16:03

    hehehe here they go again...fighting for colour... If both are happy to enjoy each others company, then who am I to dictate their lives?

  • Amazed - 2011-12-05 16:47

    We turn to forget that a church is a building and is quite different from fellowship. People can be part of a building and be distant from God within the building that is meant to represent him. As Gandhi said i love christ but i hate Christians.2ndly, We must still remember that even though people are Christiaan they will still battle with issues.Usually members of churches are not capacitated to understand human rights issues due to lack of skills of people who serve in leadership positions. Remember in most churches there is no merit to leadership appointment rather they use availability.Racism still exist in our society this is not an exception,many people might not say it but in their hearts it is there.I once visited Little falls Chrstian Church.The Pastor came in front and started praying for that day sermon as he was praying he prayed for President Mugabe and he said i pray for that dictator to be moved. Now i might not agree with Mugabe ways but i had a problem with such a prayer.I had to wonder whether he has once prayed for Pik Botha,Malan etc like that.Isn't a wonder why God hasn't answered prayers like that,As we Know he looks at the heart. Maybe until we become neutral about his love and give it freely even to people whom we perceive as undeserving we can start seeing God of wonders and majesty.At end of the service they introduced all Zone Pastors all whom were White.Silent racism.what about white folks who used to go 2 Rhema,What happened..all in Jesus name

  • MaxOdin.SA - 2011-12-06 00:10

    This argument of GOD or no GOD is getting tired. FRED and company grow a pair and let it go. We don't give a Sh1T what you believe becasue well, you believe in nothing. Keep living your nothing life and relying on intellect to get you through life. No worries mate. Good for you. I'm Happy for your liberated mind. Oh wait it's not all that liberated is it. I mean if you truely felt liberated you wouldn't feel the need to attack or even post. Ps. I'm bored with you folks from now on I won't comment, I'll just sit and laugh at the venom you spew.

  • Lee Henderson - 2013-10-09 10:37

    The two of them should be ashamed...absolutely disgusting and a disgrace to their ancestors.