News24

US man comes out in support of Breivik

2012-04-20 11:00

Cape Town - A 23-year-old US man has publicly announced his support for Norwegian self-confessed mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik, according to reports on Thursday.

In an interview with Norway's VGTV, Kevin Forts, who says he first made contact with Breivik's legal team in February, said he believed the twin attacks in Oslo and on Utoya Island demonstrated "a sense of nationalism and a moral conscience".

"He's fighting against cultural Marxism and the Islamisation of Norway and he found that the most rational way to accomplish that was through terrorist actions on Utoya and in Oslo."

According to a Hypervocal report, Forts claims he has received at least one response from Breivik himself.

"I have received letters from supporters in 20 countries, but you appear to be someone who can write well. Yes, I am absolutely interested in discussing ideological issues with you and am thinking about how we can work together," Breivik reportedly wrote to Forts.

Political sacrifice

On 22 July last year Breivik, who is currently on trial, killed eight people in a bomb attack in Oslo before heading out to Utoya Island where the youth wing of the labour party was gathered and systematically shot at the young people for more than an hour. Sixty-nine people died. The youngest victim was 14.

Responding to the interviewer's questions about the killing of children, Forts replied that "it was a necessary political sacrifice that is not necessary again".

In the video, the Massachusetts native said it was important that the world look at Breivik's "political platform rather than his atrocious actions".

"All you see is the shock, all you see is the gore on Utoya and in Oslo, but you do not see the actual political ramifications that we'll come to in the future. And I believe at that point it will be impossible to hate Breivik and you will see that he was actually acting in a manner of pre-emptive war. "

On Thursday, Norway deported a German woman who claimed to have been a lover of Breivik and had been attending his court appearances.

Meanwhile, AFP reported that Breivik took the stand on Friday to describe in detail his shooting massacre on the island last year, in what his lawyer warned would be the most difficult testimony to hear.

Detailed descriptions

On Thursday, the 33-year-old right-wing extremist had many in the Oslo district court in tears as he detailed how he set off a car bomb at the foot of a government building on 22 July, killing eight people.

He also described how he had wanted to kill everybody in the building, including the entire Norwegian government.

His lawyer Geir Lippestad however warned after the end of the trial day on Thursday that "tomorrow will probably be the hardest day".

Breivik told the court on Thursday that he had also intended to kill all 569 people on Utoya Island when he carried out his shooting massacre the same day.

On Friday, he is set to describe in detail how he killed each of the 69 people on the island.

As the trial day began, main judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen reminded survivors and family members of the victims that they were allowed to leave the courtroom if they felt they needed to do so.

Breivik, charged with "acts of terror", has entered a plea of not guilty, saying his actions were "cruel but necessary".


 

Comments
  • allcoveredinNinjas - 2012-04-20 11:11

    One nut and there will be more.

  • renesh.rambalie - 2012-04-20 11:15

    you should rot in hell with Breivik

      Liz - 2012-04-20 12:14

      Greg - how extremely and disgustingly insensitive of you. 77 innocent people assassinated by an extremist and you have the audacity to say something as idiotic as "When Islam takes over the world, you will wish their were more Beivik's around"??? Tell that to all the family members who have lost loved ones because of this sociopath. We could easily compare this guy to Hitler (to a lesser degree of course); Hitler was trying to preserve his Aryan race by 'exterminating' 6 million Jews. But in no way whatsoever did that justify his killings. Nor do your comments and statistics justify Breivik's mass murder. Show some compassion and respect, please.

      Liz - 2012-04-20 12:14

      Greg - how extremely and disgustingly insensitive of you. 77 innocent people assassinated by an extremist and you have the audacity to say something as idiotic as "When Islam takes over the world, you will wish their were more Beivik's around"??? Tell that to all the family members who have lost loved ones because of this sociopath. We could easily compare this guy to Hitler (to a lesser degree of course); Hitler was trying to preserve his Aryan race by 'exterminating' 6 million Jews. But in no way whatsoever did that justify his killings. Nor do your comments and statistics justify Breivik's mass murder. Show some compassion and respect, please.

      bluzulu - 2012-04-20 12:15

      Delusional Paranoia,

      bluzulu - 2012-04-20 12:15

      Delusional Paranoia,

      John - 2012-04-20 12:47

      Greg, Breivik is a looney out of tune. There might and I say just might be a point to his murderous rampage if his victims were Muslims but they were children and youths of his own "race/religion". The man is a danger to everybody no matter what their religous persuasion.

      John - 2012-04-20 12:47

      Greg, Breivik is a looney out of tune. There might and I say just might be a point to his murderous rampage if his victims were Muslims but they were children and youths of his own "race/religion". The man is a danger to everybody no matter what their religous persuasion.

  • Avenging - 2012-04-20 11:20

    Breivik is the first ripe fruit of his kind that has grown off a branch of the tree of democracy. The world only has forced multi-multiculturalism and liberalism to thank for his actions, and so it is those who support the democratic system worldwide who must acknowledge their responsibility for his creation/birth.

      fcint - 2012-04-20 13:18

      Avenging and Critically Honest are on the right track. Brevics of this world can never be justified. Their actions are an abomination and must be condemned with every fibre of our common humanity.But amongst all the angst is the failure of prevailing Western Political Correctness in governments and media to take responsibility for the consequence of demonizing and "shaming" understandable concerns of ordinary national citizens about multiculturalism by calling it Far Right Wing. The frustration of not being allowed legitimate expression throws up from the silent majority this extremist manifestation we have horribly witnessed.

      fcint - 2012-04-20 13:18

      Avenging and Critically Honest are on the right track. Brevics of this world can never be justified. Their actions are an abomination and must be condemned with every fibre of our common humanity.But amongst all the angst is the failure of prevailing Western Political Correctness in governments and media to take responsibility for the consequence of demonizing and "shaming" understandable concerns of ordinary national citizens about multiculturalism by calling it Far Right Wing. The frustration of not being allowed legitimate expression throws up from the silent majority this extremist manifestation we have horribly witnessed.

  • Avenging - 2012-04-20 11:22

    Breivik is the first ripe fruit of his kind that has grown off a branch of the tree of democracy. The world only has forced multiculturalism and liberalism to thank for his actions, and so it is those who support the democratic system worldwide who must acknowledge their responsibility for his creation/birth.

      Rob - 2012-04-20 11:56

      Avenging....No, no, no...democracy is not the problem, it is the lefty, washedout liberals that push for multiculturalism and minirity group rights. Rights that allow isolation (including tax avoidance) withing the host country whilst draing the host through pillaging social services. Democracy has many forms, some work some don't. So don't through out the gold with the rubbish.

      Rob - 2012-04-20 11:56

      Avenging....No, no, no...democracy is not the problem, it is the lefty, washedout liberals that push for multiculturalism and minirity group rights. Rights that allow isolation (including tax avoidance) withing the host country whilst draing the host through pillaging social services. Democracy has many forms, some work some don't. So don't through out the gold with the rubbish.

      Avenging - 2012-04-20 12:49

      criticallyhonest, it is only through the democratic system of voting that the 'lefty, washedout liberals that push for multiculturalism and minirity group rights' as you put it, can get into power to change a country's laws and hand over more power and rights to immigrants and refugees.

      Avenging - 2012-04-20 12:49

      criticallyhonest, it is only through the democratic system of voting that the 'lefty, washedout liberals that push for multiculturalism and minirity group rights' as you put it, can get into power to change a country's laws and hand over more power and rights to immigrants and refugees.

      Red - 2012-04-20 13:16

      Avenging is right! It is this rubbish system called democracy and all it's supporters that are to blame for all the violence and calamity that's coming on the whole world, it is fast bringing in the greatest war anyone will ever experience, even nuclear war! If you vote then you are guilty, it does not matter if you are of the left arm or the right arm, you are all connected to the same body called democracy, but don't get me wrong, democracy stinks like s**t just like communism, socialism and any other retarded system humans can think up The empire of the West that dominates the East have been married! But now it's coming apart, lol! Enjoy the chaos to come, because all democracy worshipers have asked for it! Fools think that iron and clay can bond!!!

      Red - 2012-04-20 13:16

      Avenging is right! It is this rubbish system called democracy and all it's supporters that are to blame for all the violence and calamity that's coming on the whole world, it is fast bringing in the greatest war anyone will ever experience, even nuclear war! If you vote then you are guilty, it does not matter if you are of the left arm or the right arm, you are all connected to the same body called democracy, but don't get me wrong, democracy stinks like s**t just like communism, socialism and any other retarded system humans can think up The empire of the West that dominates the East have been married! But now it's coming apart, lol! Enjoy the chaos to come, because all democracy worshipers have asked for it! Fools think that iron and clay can bond!!!

  • Greg - 2012-04-20 11:32

    If you understood how Islam is taking over the world, you would have a better understanding of why he did what he did. For a culture to remain intact, you need a birthrate of 2.3%. Europe have a birth rate of 1.4 which is impossible to come out of, yet the population is growing and growing, why? Immigration.. In the next couple of year, Europe will have a majority of Islamic people, and this is something breivik was fighting against as the labour party were open to multiculturalism, and opening their doors to immigrants.

      koo.doyle - 2012-04-20 11:42

      Regardless of whether he is justified in his beliefs, there is nothing that can justify the murder of dozens of teens. Mass murder is NEVER the right way to get your point across.

      koo.doyle - 2012-04-20 11:42

      Regardless of whether he is justified in his beliefs, there is nothing that can justify the murder of dozens of teens. Mass murder is NEVER the right way to get your point across.

      bluzulu - 2012-04-20 12:16

      Seems like this a trait/mantra relevant of all religions....KILL.....KILL.....KILL

      bluzulu - 2012-04-20 12:16

      Seems like this a trait/mantra relevant of all religions....KILL.....KILL.....KILL

      Greg - 2012-04-20 12:17

      I'm not justifying his acts. Killing people is the worst thing anybody can do. I'm just trying to convey to the ill informed that this guy is patriotic, and did not kill so many people for fun or because he's "crazy" like many people are saying.. I have many Norwegian friends, and they hate me for "defending" breiviks actions. Im not defending what he has done, those kids were innocent and did not deserve to die. Im just pointing out and helping people understand the reason that compelled him to do it. He is Anti migration and multiculturalism, but what he did to protest this was stupid and sick.

      Greg - 2012-04-20 12:17

      I'm not justifying his acts. Killing people is the worst thing anybody can do. I'm just trying to convey to the ill informed that this guy is patriotic, and did not kill so many people for fun or because he's "crazy" like many people are saying.. I have many Norwegian friends, and they hate me for "defending" breiviks actions. Im not defending what he has done, those kids were innocent and did not deserve to die. Im just pointing out and helping people understand the reason that compelled him to do it. He is Anti migration and multiculturalism, but what he did to protest this was stupid and sick.

      Deirdre - 2012-04-20 14:06

      I think Greg's point is that Breivik sees his actions as a means to justify an end, it's in no way right and my heart bleeds for those people who lost loved ones, but the man maybe saw this as the only way out, something similar to person who commits suicide ...

      Deirdre - 2012-04-20 14:06

      I think Greg's point is that Breivik sees his actions as a means to justify an end, it's in no way right and my heart bleeds for those people who lost loved ones, but the man maybe saw this as the only way out, something similar to person who commits suicide ...

      David - 2012-04-21 13:50

      amen to that bro, half the world is ignorant liberals don't realize the filth and decay of our modern society which is slowly eroding away our morals and values. Europeans are becoming extinct!!

      David - 2012-04-21 13:50

      amen to that bro, half the world is ignorant liberals don't realize the filth and decay of our modern society which is slowly eroding away our morals and values. Europeans are becoming extinct!!

  • cosmos.ndebele - 2012-04-20 11:34

    Another idiot

      bluzulu - 2012-04-20 12:17

      Right on Cos, Just another SAVAGE,

      bluzulu - 2012-04-20 12:17

      Right on Cos, Just another SAVAGE,

      wesleywt - 2012-04-20 15:38

      I see there are loads of people who support the murder of 70 children by this maniac....look at all the down votes for cosmos. You people of News24 are sick sick sick.

      wesleywt - 2012-04-20 15:38

      I see there are loads of people who support the murder of 70 children by this maniac....look at all the down votes for cosmos. You people of News24 are sick sick sick.

  • Erica - 2012-04-20 11:46

    This interview is disturbing. Now he also got his 3:23 min of fame. Why would anyone view this murderers' acts as a justified? INSANE

  • winston.mullany - 2012-04-20 11:48

    Obviously wants his five minutes of fame...chop!

  • elewies - 2012-04-20 11:51

    Looks like his mother and father might be the same person

  • Lynda - 2012-04-20 11:54

    @Greg......crap, what is wrong with Muslims anyway?

      Greg - 2012-04-20 12:21

      Nothing is wrong with them, that's not what I am saying. But if you have a culture 100's of years old, and want to maintain that culture for future generations, you would need a birth rate of 2.4. At the moment, the culture in Europe will CHANGE to Islam as the majority will be Muslim. Nothing wrong with Muslims, but it sucks big time for those (Originals) who want to maintain a countries culture and beliefs. Thats all im saying.

      Greg - 2012-04-20 12:21

      Nothing is wrong with them, that's not what I am saying. But if you have a culture 100's of years old, and want to maintain that culture for future generations, you would need a birth rate of 2.4. At the moment, the culture in Europe will CHANGE to Islam as the majority will be Muslim. Nothing wrong with Muslims, but it sucks big time for those (Originals) who want to maintain a countries culture and beliefs. Thats all im saying.

  • Carry - 2012-04-20 12:04

    THE NUTCASES ARE EVERYWHERE.

  • bluzulu - 2012-04-20 12:14

    This dropkick is just an example of where the world is heading,....Thanks USA.

  • wesleywt - 2012-04-20 12:16

    A nutjob supports another nutjob. This is news? Come on News24

  • ronald.bruyns - 2012-04-20 12:25

    1 mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.....take the ANC.... In the apartheid era, the whites viewed them as terrorists and murderers, and the blacks viewed them as freedom fighters and heroes... I am not saying killing is right, what i am saying, is that there are always 2 sides to a story

  • Greg - 2012-04-20 12:32

    @LizK Lets Imagine you were a black person 100 years ago in South Africa. A bunch of white people come to your land, procreate like crazy and over run your culture by having a majority of "foreign people" in your country. Democracy comes in, and this imported culture with a majority then vote in a European president. If you look at the big picture, the black people and their culture were invadaded and overrun by Europeans (in numbers) and in time, took control of the country. This is what is predicted to happen in Europe in the coming years, and is exactly what breivik was against. Killing those kids was not cool and wont solve the problem, so i am not advocating that what he did was right. I just understand it from his point of view.

      Alfred - 2012-04-20 12:59

      Greg, I'm not going to argue the point you're making but I thought I should point out a few things about the comparison you're making with Africa. Black people in South Africa migrated here from the Congo and Niger delta regions of Africa, they are as foreign to SA as Europeans are. And while I agree that democracy was forced on them to say that they were overrun by Europeans in numbers is more than just a bit of a stretch. There are about 5 million whites in Africa, a continent of over 1 billion blacks and I'll be damned if I don't hear squealing about those 5 million whites every day of my life. Meanwhile there are over 40 million blacks in the US and about another 10 million in Europe. Btw, I completely and wholeheartedly agree that immigration in Europe is nothing short of suicidal for the continent this Breivik douche needs to rot. How he thought a mass murder was going to help his cause is completely beyond me.

      Alfred - 2012-04-20 12:59

      Greg, I'm not going to argue the point you're making but I thought I should point out a few things about the comparison you're making with Africa. Black people in South Africa migrated here from the Congo and Niger delta regions of Africa, they are as foreign to SA as Europeans are. And while I agree that democracy was forced on them to say that they were overrun by Europeans in numbers is more than just a bit of a stretch. There are about 5 million whites in Africa, a continent of over 1 billion blacks and I'll be damned if I don't hear squealing about those 5 million whites every day of my life. Meanwhile there are over 40 million blacks in the US and about another 10 million in Europe. Btw, I completely and wholeheartedly agree that immigration in Europe is nothing short of suicidal for the continent this Breivik douche needs to rot. How he thought a mass murder was going to help his cause is completely beyond me.

      Liz - 2012-04-20 13:08

      Greg, I understand what you are saying, and I agree with a lot of it, minus the "you will wish there were more people like Breivik around" part. I am 100% sure that his ideologies are shared by others, but none are as extreme as him and would not be willing to assassinate innocent children, or anyone for that matter. There are many other ways to publicize one's views. Therefore, I agree with absolutely nothing that Breivik says; I simply can not agree with anyone who would go to such extremes, whether their theories may be correct or ill-conceived. I am outraged at the shockingly high numbers of rape in this country, and many would agree with me; yet, I would never resort to killing innocent children in order to shed light on my opinions. Clearly, that would not help my cause. My point here is that even if your cause is a rational one, you can not resort to violence like this. And you can not support the claims of someone who is capable of such atrocities.

      Liz - 2012-04-20 13:08

      Greg, I understand what you are saying, and I agree with a lot of it, minus the "you will wish there were more people like Breivik around" part. I am 100% sure that his ideologies are shared by others, but none are as extreme as him and would not be willing to assassinate innocent children, or anyone for that matter. There are many other ways to publicize one's views. Therefore, I agree with absolutely nothing that Breivik says; I simply can not agree with anyone who would go to such extremes, whether their theories may be correct or ill-conceived. I am outraged at the shockingly high numbers of rape in this country, and many would agree with me; yet, I would never resort to killing innocent children in order to shed light on my opinions. Clearly, that would not help my cause. My point here is that even if your cause is a rational one, you can not resort to violence like this. And you can not support the claims of someone who is capable of such atrocities.

      Greg - 2012-04-20 13:23

      @Alfred, Using SA was a "fictional" example of how immigration can destroy a culture overtime and allow a majority (foreigners) under the brand of democracy to take over a country and its culture. The Koi San were the originals here in SA, and are now a huge minority as their birth rates were no were near enough to sustain the culture with the influx of forien immigrants (Europeans and Blacks from neighbouring countries). Same thing will happen in Europe (History Proves this to be a Fact) @LizK My Comment about Breviek: "you will wish there were more people like Breivik around" I meant this looking at the bigger picture. In 100 years or less, when Norwegians have a Government with a majority of Muslims, people will start to get worried and wonder what happened, and at this point, they will look back and realise he was correct (not in killing innocent people, but by stopping the Labour party from opening their borders so openly to foreigners) This is the only point I am trying to make, I Agree with you 100% about killing innocent children, Its disgusting and he deserves a harsh punishment.

      Greg - 2012-04-20 13:23

      @Alfred, Using SA was a "fictional" example of how immigration can destroy a culture overtime and allow a majority (foreigners) under the brand of democracy to take over a country and its culture. The Koi San were the originals here in SA, and are now a huge minority as their birth rates were no were near enough to sustain the culture with the influx of forien immigrants (Europeans and Blacks from neighbouring countries). Same thing will happen in Europe (History Proves this to be a Fact) @LizK My Comment about Breviek: "you will wish there were more people like Breivik around" I meant this looking at the bigger picture. In 100 years or less, when Norwegians have a Government with a majority of Muslims, people will start to get worried and wonder what happened, and at this point, they will look back and realise he was correct (not in killing innocent people, but by stopping the Labour party from opening their borders so openly to foreigners) This is the only point I am trying to make, I Agree with you 100% about killing innocent children, Its disgusting and he deserves a harsh punishment.

      timmy.ditsele - 2012-04-20 14:50

      Alfred give the timelime when the black people migrated to south africa.please.

      timmy.ditsele - 2012-04-20 14:50

      Alfred give the timelime when the black people migrated to south africa.please.

      bluzulu - 2012-04-20 18:00

      Alfred, The Indigenous Blacks in this country are foreign to Mzansi, So much for your credibility..........NEXT.

      bluzulu - 2012-04-20 18:00

      Alfred, The Indigenous Blacks in this country are foreign to Mzansi, So much for your credibility..........NEXT.

  • Ask - 2012-04-20 15:59

    I see a few things that are of concern... 1 - the number of people that are pro Breivik is shocking; check all the pro votes, we still have many Nazis in our midst... 2 - perhaps Europe and some of you should change from same sex partners to the opposite sex and for Heavens sake go and procreate... gebruik daai ding... and stop complaining. 3 - Maybe the solution is to phase out whites and blacks and create coloureds; Multiculturalism is the future... we are heading that way.. in two hundred years, no more whites or blacks, just coloureds, so get with the programme. 4 - @Greg; why are so 'bang' for the Islam people? 5 - Breivik comes from the same stock as Al-queda people... they did not want 50000 Americans troops in Saudi Arabia; so they created 9/11... there are no winners... as soon as ONE innocent life is lost - we ALL lose... shame on you Nazis... that includes Al Quaeda ...

      fcint - 2012-04-20 16:51

      I agree with your point 5 but you are wrong to say that all the pro votes are pro Breivick. On the contrary many are horrified with Breivic but pro the comments that point out the p.c. in Western society - so obviously absent in the Muslim world where there is NO multiculturalism - which is responsible for demonizing those that are concerned about excessive immigration of foreign cultures. (Note EXCESSIVE immigration) and therefore instead of healthy debate, frustration breeds the kind of hate we now see acted out in the most shockingly brutal way that must be condemned unconditionally. Why would you not give people who are not for multiculturalism the same rights to express themselves?

      fcint - 2012-04-20 16:51

      I agree with your point 5 but you are wrong to say that all the pro votes are pro Breivick. On the contrary many are horrified with Breivic but pro the comments that point out the p.c. in Western society - so obviously absent in the Muslim world where there is NO multiculturalism - which is responsible for demonizing those that are concerned about excessive immigration of foreign cultures. (Note EXCESSIVE immigration) and therefore instead of healthy debate, frustration breeds the kind of hate we now see acted out in the most shockingly brutal way that must be condemned unconditionally. Why would you not give people who are not for multiculturalism the same rights to express themselves?

      Ask - 2012-04-20 17:17

      @fcint - No one has stopped your rights... you can say what you like.. it is free country... I'm am merely exercising my right to voice my opinion. It is also my opinion that Europe has not only a Muslim issue... but a colour issue as well... you are against multiculturalism; then good for you... no 3 above is going to happen... and maybe you should follows no 2... because I don't think this hatred is going to stop... if there were NO multicultural issues; you would have found something else; that is your makeup.. e.g. look what happened to the Jewish people across Europe... before the Muslims or other colours were there.

      Ask - 2012-04-20 17:17

      @fcint - No one has stopped your rights... you can say what you like.. it is free country... I'm am merely exercising my right to voice my opinion. It is also my opinion that Europe has not only a Muslim issue... but a colour issue as well... you are against multiculturalism; then good for you... no 3 above is going to happen... and maybe you should follows no 2... because I don't think this hatred is going to stop... if there were NO multicultural issues; you would have found something else; that is your makeup.. e.g. look what happened to the Jewish people across Europe... before the Muslims or other colours were there.

      fcint - 2012-04-20 17:53

      I am trying to have an intelligent conversation. My comment was directed at your point 1. You can have a rant if you want but why you would get personal and assume I do not follow your no 2 or know what is my make up, is beyond the scope of my engagement. I am not a European. You can certainly disagree with my ideas but I read extensively and believe that in Europe people are more concerned today about immigration from a cultural more than a racist perspective. Not like the Holocaust which was motivated by racism. You might have other experiences.

      fcint - 2012-04-20 17:53

      I am trying to have an intelligent conversation. My comment was directed at your point 1. You can have a rant if you want but why you would get personal and assume I do not follow your no 2 or know what is my make up, is beyond the scope of my engagement. I am not a European. You can certainly disagree with my ideas but I read extensively and believe that in Europe people are more concerned today about immigration from a cultural more than a racist perspective. Not like the Holocaust which was motivated by racism. You might have other experiences.

      bluzulu - 2012-04-20 18:02

      Well said Joe,

      bluzulu - 2012-04-20 18:02

      Well said Joe,

      Ask - 2012-04-21 11:11

      @fcint - No one is ranting, I'm having an intelligent discussion with you... I apologise if I presumed you were not not following no 2. Based on my extensive reading and life experiences, I stand by my opinion and would like to add that the expression or term 'Excessive Immigration' has racial undertones attached to it. 'Culture' is used as an excuse, or rather a better choice of word/s to express a hidden agenda. Another point is that how could the holocaust be motivated by racism; Judaism is a religion, not a race. Europe was jealous of the success of the Jews and they blamed the Jewish people for murdering the Christ. If you do not like multiculturalism then just say so... be like the ex President Bush, "You are with us or against us"

      Ask - 2012-04-21 11:11

      @fcint - No one is ranting, I'm having an intelligent discussion with you... I apologise if I presumed you were not not following no 2. Based on my extensive reading and life experiences, I stand by my opinion and would like to add that the expression or term 'Excessive Immigration' has racial undertones attached to it. 'Culture' is used as an excuse, or rather a better choice of word/s to express a hidden agenda. Another point is that how could the holocaust be motivated by racism; Judaism is a religion, not a race. Europe was jealous of the success of the Jews and they blamed the Jewish people for murdering the Christ. If you do not like multiculturalism then just say so... be like the ex President Bush, "You are with us or against us"

      fcint - 2012-04-22 00:04

      @AskJoe - You have a basic misunderstanding of the Nazi ideology. It was to create a dominant Aryan race in Europe, Fair hair, blue eyes etc. Jews were the main victims but millions of other non-Aryans, such as the Roma (Gypsies), were also included in the Holocaust. It was as racist as was Apartheid. I would be totally against race as a reason for anti-immigration but it is not about me. I have made a reasoned response to your comments you made. We can agree to disagree that the concern in Europe today is not based on race as was the Holocaust but on anxieties around national identity caused by foreign cultural influences on the traditional societies of the nation states. There is nothing sinister about their desire to resist that. Whether we all will be coloured and/or Chinese in 100 years is besides the point. We all have our agendas.

      fcint - 2012-04-22 00:04

      @AskJoe - You have a basic misunderstanding of the Nazi ideology. It was to create a dominant Aryan race in Europe, Fair hair, blue eyes etc. Jews were the main victims but millions of other non-Aryans, such as the Roma (Gypsies), were also included in the Holocaust. It was as racist as was Apartheid. I would be totally against race as a reason for anti-immigration but it is not about me. I have made a reasoned response to your comments you made. We can agree to disagree that the concern in Europe today is not based on race as was the Holocaust but on anxieties around national identity caused by foreign cultural influences on the traditional societies of the nation states. There is nothing sinister about their desire to resist that. Whether we all will be coloured and/or Chinese in 100 years is besides the point. We all have our agendas.

      Benn - 2012-04-22 01:47

      fcint- You must have just arrived in SA , or you have never been here to compare apartheid with nazism. During apartheid, millions of blacks from all over Africa, were trying their darnest to get INTO SA. They were trying to escape from conditions elsewhere, which are now being created by the ANC regime in SA.Dont expose your stupidity in public.

      Benn - 2012-04-22 01:47

      fcint- You must have just arrived in SA , or you have never been here to compare apartheid with nazism. During apartheid, millions of blacks from all over Africa, were trying their darnest to get INTO SA. They were trying to escape from conditions elsewhere, which are now being created by the ANC regime in SA.Dont expose your stupidity in public.

      Ask - 2012-04-22 10:56

      @fcint - I agree about the concept of nazi racism; I misunderstood your earlier comment. I accept that we all have agendas... and we CAN agree to disagree; again based on my reading and life experiences - the agenda in Europe has racial undertones using culture etc as as excuse. @ Benn - Apartheid may not have been as harsh as Nazism; but hell the similarities are uncanny; both groups trying to retain 'purity'... the Apartheid policies were almost like communist Russia; detention without trial, curfews for blacks; Indians were not allowed in Orange Free State etc... glad that's over. Separate ambulances and hospitals etc... wow.... Eish... we must NEVER forget...

      Ask - 2012-04-22 10:56

      @fcint - I agree about the concept of nazi racism; I misunderstood your earlier comment. I accept that we all have agendas... and we CAN agree to disagree; again based on my reading and life experiences - the agenda in Europe has racial undertones using culture etc as as excuse. @ Benn - Apartheid may not have been as harsh as Nazism; but hell the similarities are uncanny; both groups trying to retain 'purity'... the Apartheid policies were almost like communist Russia; detention without trial, curfews for blacks; Indians were not allowed in Orange Free State etc... glad that's over. Separate ambulances and hospitals etc... wow.... Eish... we must NEVER forget...

      fcint - 2012-04-22 12:21

      @Benn - see AskJoe for his reply to you. It would be civilized if you played the ball and not the man and stuck to your argument. You are entitled to your views as anybody else without personal abuse. My comments are about ideological principle and not methodology. Of course there were differences. Nazi ideology preached a pure Aryan race by eliminating by physical genocide those that were not, while Apartheid's goal was for the separation of the races, except in the workplace. Because of unemployment and desperate poverty in their own countries, Africans saw South Africa as a source of jobs and were prepared to come and live under the yoke of Apartheid for economic reasons. But the principle of racist ideology was the same. Interestingly enough the current ANC government policy practices a form of inverse racism also for ideological economic reasons. I agree with you that if people get jobs because of the colour of their skin and not level of skill, as a result endemic corruption and inefficiency will seriously damage this country.

      fcint - 2012-04-22 12:21

      @Benn - see AskJoe for his reply to you. It would be civilized if you played the ball and not the man and stuck to your argument. You are entitled to your views as anybody else without personal abuse. My comments are about ideological principle and not methodology. Of course there were differences. Nazi ideology preached a pure Aryan race by eliminating by physical genocide those that were not, while Apartheid's goal was for the separation of the races, except in the workplace. Because of unemployment and desperate poverty in their own countries, Africans saw South Africa as a source of jobs and were prepared to come and live under the yoke of Apartheid for economic reasons. But the principle of racist ideology was the same. Interestingly enough the current ANC government policy practices a form of inverse racism also for ideological economic reasons. I agree with you that if people get jobs because of the colour of their skin and not level of skill, as a result endemic corruption and inefficiency will seriously damage this country.

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