SA, China discuss AU plan on Libya

2011-07-22 19:02

Pretoria - President Jacob Zuma and his Chinese counterpart Hu Jintao have spoken by telephone to discuss African Union proposals for ending the conflict in Libya, his spokesperson said on Friday.

"I can confirm that the two presidents have been in contact. President Zuma briefed his Chinese counterpart about the African Union decisions and proposals on Libya," presidential spokesperson Mac Maharaj told AFP.

"These were well received by the Chinese president," he said.

"I have since read a report that China supports the African Union's peace proposals for Libya," Maharaj said.

"If this is so, we are happy that the Chinese government is supporting the AU peace plan," he said. "It augurs well for the process."

Zuma is part of the African Union team trying to broker a peace deal in Libya, proposing a ceasefire and negotiations on democratic reforms, with provision for a multinational peacekeeping force organised by the United Nations.

Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi late on Thursday ruled out talks with rebels fighting to end his four-decade rule. Rebels insist Gaddafi must step down before talks can take place.

Zuma said on Monday that a decision on Gaddafi’s future should be part of negotiations among the warring parties.

"We feel as African countries that the Libyan people must decide" about Gaddafi’s future, Zuma said.

"What happens to Gaddafi must be decided by the Libyan people. You need to negotiate how, why and where he must go," Zuma said.

  • WhyLikeThis - 2011-07-22 20:23

    And China fits in where with the AU? Oh, I forgot, they nearly own half of Africa now.

      Kunta-Kinte - 2011-07-22 21:32

      China owns much of the US debt through U.S. Treasury securities (essentially, IOUs) with funds accumulated through sales of consumer goods. China has bought much of the real estate in the UK and other western countries. So who owns who? No one can deny that the Chinese have a vested interest in acquiring access to our resources but that unlike western nations they do not come here with guns in their hands and demand that it all be handed over for free. Instead, they put their cash on the table and make an offer. Westeners are not prepared to make a better offer because they feel entitled to get it for free. Unlike Westerners who just wanted to cart away raw materials, Chinese businesses are building industry locally. Refineries, chemical plants, plastics factories, garment shops, and all the way down to higher efficicency chicken farms and other agricultural projects. There is MASSIVE technology transfer to the Africans, all gratis. No claim of IP, no exobitant royalties.

      slg - 2011-07-22 22:58

      Kunta, I recommend you read up on Chinese history, especially the Cultural Revolution under Mao Tse Tung when tens of millions of people were slaughtered for nothing more than wanting to be individuals. I also recommend focusing on the current situation in Tibet, where the Chinese authorities are slaughtering Buddhist monks, yes monks, because they want nothing more than self-determination, the right to decide their way of life.

      slg - 2011-07-22 23:09

      It's also curious that you eulogize about peace, yet your photo appears to be that of a machine gun.

      tseliso.molukanele - 2011-07-26 12:32

      China could be Africa's friend the same way communist Russia was a friend to SA liberation movements in time of apartheid. They may have motives, but if it works out for us in the short and long run, i say it is very much welcome.

      daaivark - 2011-07-29 10:01

      Everyone has motives. So what. One chooses what works best for neself in any given situation.

  • TamaraSays - 2011-07-22 20:44

    The first sign of battle lines being drawn? It's been coming for a while. The west / east, with Africa as everyone's favorite pawn. And most to starstruck to realise that the Chinese couldn't care less about Africa - except as a marketplace. Eish.

  • Kunta-Kinte - 2011-07-22 21:16

    China's forte in innovation is to develop new ways to organize society, to bring it peace, prosperity and security. The facts on the ground are so far removed from your opinion/interpretation of what has and is happening that it can reasonably be said that there really is no relationship between what you're saying and what has, so far, happened re: China & Africa.

      TamaraSays - 2011-07-22 22:10

      China's 'peace' comes from a communist ideology, and from controlling their citizens with an iron fist. Try Googling from China... They've also been making increasing military preparations, and becoming more antagonistic towards the west. Their involvement in Africa is all a part of the battle for the continent - they want African resources. So does the rest of the world. They're backing the Libya fight, America is quietly making inroads in Nigeria. The sad part is, no matter who wins, it won't be in Africa's favor. What's not to understand?

      slg - 2011-07-22 22:59

      You're idealizing China to make your point that the so-called West is evil. It's silly and immature.

      tseliso.molukanele - 2011-07-26 12:35

      Who is evil between the west and China with regards to Africa? regardless of which ideology of the two Africa prefers, who is actually a better partner for Africa?

      slg - 2011-07-26 21:27

      Tseliso, why not both? It's the anti-west ideology based in deep victimhood thinking that needs to be changed.

  • slg - 2011-07-22 22:47

    How are the Libyan people going to decide about Gadhafi's future when Gadhafi has refused to relinquish power and has caused the death and rape of thousands of Libyans? And should Gadhafi himself be part of that deciding?

      Kunta-Kinte - 2011-07-29 08:26

      The same way that South Africans decided about the future of their country. What was even more significant about our own deliberations was the refusal by both sides of allowing western powers any seat on the negotiating table ( not even as observers) because history had taught us that westerners never negotiate in good faith, e.g. Israel. If the Jews and the Arabs were negotiating without outside influence, that conflict would have been solved many moons ago, but alas that has not happened because of westerners who are only interested in their own geo-politic interests.

      slg - 2011-07-29 09:38

      Step 1 in SA was overthrowing the oppressive Apartheid government. Step 1 in Libya is overthrowing the oppressive Gadhafi government. The SA constitution is fashioned on the best constitutions the world over, meaning so-called Western constitutions, directed by local values and principles. There aren't any democratic constitutions in the Middle East.

      Kunta-Kinte - 2011-07-29 11:28

      Ah, western exceptionalism. What if Libyans don't want to live like westerners. Was this constitution fashioned before or after negotiations had taken place. Was any party or people barred from sitting a the negotiating table. The NATS had been in power for over 40 years at the time and the anc was still willing to negotiate with them.

      slg - 2011-07-29 17:42

      Kunta, I recommend you read up on the process followed in South Africa to reach the first democratic elections in 1994. It was inspiring. It's not helpful to pretend to know. Libyans will choose for themselves their own system of government that is representative of the will of the Libyan people. This is the whole point of what is going on. You and Gadhafi are trying to stop this. And you are trying to sell this idea to a South African audience. It's ironical.

  • Kunta-Kinte - 2011-07-29 06:47

    Africans are not going to take lectures from those with a track record of rape and pillage here, be that directly (in the past) or indirectly (in the present). Even minimal acquaintance with the facts demonstrates that China would have to do some extraordinarily terrible things to even begin to match what the West has done. It's not that the Chinese record in Africa is about as horrible as the Western; it's that it isn't even in the same universe of badness. And too, every single reason people canvas for denying Chinese a position in Africa applies just as strongly to Western actors -- in most cases, even more strongly; and obviously there are extra reasons to be wary of Western actors.

      slg - 2011-07-29 09:41

      Then step 1 must be to remove oppressive dictators the continent over. This is exactly what's happening in Libya.

  • RAYSEMBE - 2011-07-29 07:01

    Kunta i love and enjoy reading your comments

  • Kunta-Kinte - 2011-07-29 08:46

    China is building bridges..and making friends..The west is burning them in a scortched earth manner and making enemies .. The Chinese are investing in Africa.The motivation is self interest but the relationship is more cooperative.The trouble with westerners is that they think they have the right to stick their noses in anywhere in the world and expect the rest of the world to live up to "their values" - which they have never lived up to! The Chinese would have long quit or withdrawn if not welcomed and might have put their money somewhere else. People can criticize what the Chinese are doing if they themselves have any better ideas. The Western model does not have any better ideas. Instead, it has a decades-long record of dismal failure. What are these people recommending as an alternative to the Chinese model? More of the same aid programs that have seen billions of dollars sink into Africa and disappear without a trace? No, as far as the Western model is concerned, it's time to sit down shamefacedly at the back of the room while the Chinese stand up and see if they can do any better. There are as many starving children in China as there are in Africa. So it's up to Africa to practice good governance and promote the best and brightest to negotiate with the Han.

      slg - 2011-07-29 09:44

      It's your trashing of the so-called West to create a idealized contrast of China that demeans your thinking. And you do this while using Western inventions that are your computer and internet.

      Kunta-Kinte - 2011-07-29 09:52

      Respectfully, this is a diversion. The point of the argument was precise: Chinese are horrible, so Westerners should be allowed (to continue) their privileged relationship with Africa. It was comparative, which is why it's so stunningly bad.

      slg - 2011-07-29 10:01

      You're doing exactly the same thing, just the other way around.

      daaivark - 2011-07-29 10:04

      Well said, Kunta and slg.

      Kunta-Kinte - 2011-07-29 11:07

      I dont want to get in the d!ck waving contest.Neither of your above post supports your point nor detracts from mine. You're comment addressed to me is in the form of a riddle. You really will have to make an effort to elucidate.

      slg - 2011-07-29 17:44

      Kunta, whether you are an extremist on the left, or an extremist on the right, you're not in truth.

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