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For Charles Evendumber - In Response to What is Hermann Bohmer

01 March 2013, 10:58

This response is for Charles in response to his article

In this post I will explain what I understand under each of the following, and what the Bible say about it. It is not a doctrine, not a new church or a new belief system. It merely shows my understanding of each of these items and how it relates to the Bible. So, t all the atheists, Chill, this is just a response to Charles request. No harm done…

1.      Creation

To clarify what I belief regarding Creation, we have to look at Genesis 1 and 2.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was [a]formless and void, and darkness was over the [b]surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was [c]moving over the [d]surface of the waters.”

Note that in Gen 1: 1 everything was created. There is a difference between “create” and “made”. “Made” means using a existing thing to make another.

 The days (6) refer to a period of time. “Yom” was the word for a period of time. Sometimes, half a day( sunrise to sunset), sometimes a ful day, sometimes a week, month, year, decades, centuries, 1000 of years and even millions. There is 6 geological periods as described in Science. The first 3 day are relative to the next 3 days ( 4 to 6). There is an important link between them..

Let check…

Day ( Period one)

In the first period, there was light and darkness made… As the earth rotated there was day and night. Seem logical… To see the relevance to day (period) 4 let’s check what appears in day (period 4)

Here the sun and the moon and all the stars become visible. They are “timekeepers” and dictate and assist with direction, changing of the seasons etc

“14 Then God said, “Let there be [s]lights in the [t]expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for [u]lights in the [v]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so”

This raises an important question, what gave the light form day  (period) 1? Easily answered, of course the sun and the moon and the stars, each in the specific timeframe, day and night. What is important to remember, that with day 3 three, photosynthesis begins, with the appearance of plants and trees. But later, more on that… The process of photosynthesis results in lifting the clouds of smoke and dust, and the only now the sun and moon and stars becomes visible to all life on earth. They have been there since Gen 1:1.

One day (period 2) the following happens…

6 Then God said, “Let there be [e]an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 God made the [f]expanse, and separated the waters which were below the [g]expanse from the waters which were above the [h]expanse; and it was so.”

In the second period or day, the two areas where moisture will be found are divided. The sky and the ocean. This is related to what happens in day (period 5)

Then God said, “Let the waters [ad]teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth [ae]in the open [af]expanse of the heavens.” 21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good

Let see the relation… On day 5 the life forms that would inhabit the areas as listed on day 2 appears.

To the third period or day 3…

“Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout [j]vegetation, [k]plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after [l]their kind [m]with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth brought forth [n]vegetation, [o]plants yielding seed after [p]their kind, and trees bearing fruit [q]with seed in them, after [r]their kind; and God saw that it was good”

As mentioned before, in the third period land and sea is divided. Plants life starts and makes the smoke, mist and dust rise. The process of photosynthesis begins and ensure that as mentioned before that the sun, moon and stars becomes visible, as mentiond in day (period) 4.

As like with the ones before, day 3 creates the habitat where day6, life form will be visible.

24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after [ag]their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after [ah]their kind”; and it was so. 25 God made the beasts of the earth after [ai]their kind, and the cattle after [aj]their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the [ak]sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. “

All other animal starts in the last period, with man and women being the last being made.  However, as the last verse does not give enough information about day 6, Gen 2 describes this day in more detail. Man is taught about his dependence on animal and plant life and to look after it, otherwise it would mean the end of most life. And how true is that. As with mentioning of Eve, man’s dependence on the female species is shown. It means that life can continue naturally with man and woman. The writing style makes us realize that the writer wants us to focus on the importance of mankind and that the woman should be protected by her man, like a rib  protects our organs from damage, especially our heart, showing and highlight the what God consider of utmost importance: Love for all mankind and for God… A very easy thing to do, yet we fail in it daily. It should be said that these gives a reasonable good occurrence of how life started and what this objects will inhabit. Very similar to that what we presume how life developed when science is used to study it.

Firstly, Genesis 1 gives the order of creation in six days. The last that was created was man. Genesis 1: 26 to 28 was written to give a summary introduction about the man, or in him, mankind. It also speaks about male and female He (God) created THEM.
It is also logically clear that before creating the man, God first created the land dwelling animals.
Genesis 2 does in no way contradict this. Moses, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit places the spotlight on the man and how God created him. It may even be assumed that the trees and other plants were created AFTER man, but what is important is that Man's place in creation is amplified here.
It is even said that: "4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven. 5 Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth; and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground." (Genesis 2: 4 - 6; NASB, I quoted from it as the NIV has a way of dodging the use of the word "day" where it is deemed problematic).
This contributes to the idea that the earth was still in a state of disorder, contrary to what was described in chapter 1.
The fact is that the prominence of Adam's creation is placed in focus. It may also help to understand that by using the expression "God rested from His work of creation, the connotation is pointed out by some commentators that God ceased His work of creation, but allowed for that which man was to do as the one who was to rule over God's creation. Genesis 2: 15 confirms this.
The one thing that was left for the Creator to do, was to form the man from the dust of the earth. By the way, nothing can be formed from dust; it must be moistened to become clay. The human body is made of large portions of water, wow…

Now there were two things that man was confronted with. Firstly, he was confronted with a choice of a moral nature; obey and live or disobey and die. This power of moral choice was inherent in man as made in the image of God. It is central to our reaction when hearing the gospel and then having to choose for life or for death.
God then noted, not because He forgot something, but for us who read the creation account; man was alone and that was not how it should be.
But instead of going ahead and solving this problem, God first brought the animals He had made to the man to see what he would name them. Here man was given full autonomy, for whatever the man named each animal that would be its name.

This work which God commissioned the man to do would only serve to develop a growing awareness of his own singleness.

The creation account of the woman from the man's body is, in my view, a prophetic act which already makes provision for the cost of creation to be appreciated and I believe that in Ephesians (again?) 5: 22 ff. the apostle reveals some of the purpose of this way which God chose to create the woman from the man's body.

Some interesting links…

I think my view is balanced, and understand that you want to place all Christians into a 6 physical day creation box, and doing the 6000 years things, when that argument is flawed in itself..

2.      The flood

The Flood story you said the bible plagiarized from, not in one of them the “God” was happy that man survived. The events mentioned in the Bible, ensured us that if man repented, the flood would maybe never have happened. The righteous survived… Whether, an local or global, the flood was true, and together with all the truths of what happens when a flood occurs.

3. Divorce.

The verses you “Rubicons” mentioned, stated that even Jesus said where a marriage fails due to unchasity, that it was permissible. In my view, unchasity doesn’t necessary mean and is limited to the the sexual conduct of the partner, but also where the was a non existence of love( including respect and dignity) Spousal abuse etc is not a sign of love, neither is child abuse(mentally, emotally or physically) Divorce is acceptable in the Bible, there has to be good ground for it. Now the normal response the “ What God has put together, let no one put it asunder” means specifically the relationship between man and women, to fulfil each other needs, physically and emotional. Man and man cant do this, either the procreation of future generation. They didn’t have the same choices/options we do, but they had the common flaw to change their views on what is moral, and what isn’t, just like the current people…The Matt 5, Matt 19, Mark 10 and Mark 16 simply states here that if a person( generally a man) divorce due to unchasity, is is permittable to divorce, the man that marry her becomes a one of her lovers( Lev 20) just becoming a party of adultery. If one marry and divorce, purely that one isn’t compatable with the other party, and to have many partners that way is not concerned about love, but only that of his needs. It is the same as having many partners before marriage… All that person wants is to satisy their needs…

So divorce is justified, when there is no more love and respect for each other, that is why it is important to know before you marry that you can accept everything of this person… I was willing to accept  my wife and the children as a part of me… They are all loved in my house, just like our children together is as well…

4.      Clothing

I assume here you refer to the reference where two different types of cloths can’t be worn together. That is an old custom by men, and can’t for the life of me think, that the type/s of clothing I wear would be important to God.

The reason  why the Bible states it was for not mixing linen and wool was simple: this was for the priests only, and was because of the curse engendered by Adam's disobedience. God told him that the ground would be cursed and he would receive crops only be the sweat of his brow. Wool makes you sweat and sweat is a curse of God, so a linen ephod had to be worn by the priests.  So it is quite logical practice… wool will make you sweat more  and if one had the work,  linen would be more appropriate…

Nothing sinister, Wool is too warm, when you have to do work. Clothes doesn’t make the man. I wear what I am comfortable with… God would not judge based on clothing, as it wasn’t necessary for the first people Adam/ Eve to be love by God…

5.Farming methods

As to the crops, if you had more than one crop per field, it would be easier for weeds to spring up unseen. In fact it's still common practice today. Amazing…

6. Homosexuality

Another people’s sexual behaviour is a choice, the problem is what they tell people why they do the things they do. Whether you have the idea  that it is a sexual preference or orientation. Only one person can decide what you like and don’t like, and change the orientation towards their views and behaviour. My article about sexuality addressed this. I get upset when people say it is in their genes, or animals do it, therefor it is natural. Animal exhibit sexual behaviour for different reason, then what humans do. Some say our sexual preferences are a choice, but not our orientation. The reason for it I have not yet learned, even from the people that say they were born that way, or realized that they were different…Again, refer to my article on sexuality. All types sexual behaviours is a choice, even the amount of partners you want to have…

Sexual orientation is an enduring personal quality that inclines people to feel romantic or sexual attraction (or a combination of these) to persons of the opposite sex or gender, the same sex or gender, or to both sexes or more than one gender.”

Ask yourself is atheism an orientation or a preference?  If an orientation, it would mean it was impossible to be religious. One would not want that life style, yet if looked for the perspective that everyone is born an atheist (what nosense), on would not choose to become religious, yet, most atheists was religious, and moved between the two possibilities. They had a choice…

7. Slavery

There are types of slavery, like bride buying, child labour, debt bondage, human trafficking, Peonage, Sexaul slavery, sweatshop, wage slavery. The slavery mentioned is the Bible was a well established trade. Many wrongs were committed in this world, because man power over another.  Bonded labour was most properly the one mentioned in the bible ( however, with this, many other ideas came to mind, based on the culture of the owner. Any form a slavery where there is no compensation or ability to work of the debt incurred by the slave, I consider to be cruel. To use kids to perform works which ought to be done by adults is unethical. No person is to be used for personal sexual pleasure without the consent of the other party. This should be rid out. This is why I am against legalizing of prostitution, as I don’t see the legalizing of it would prevent this from happening.

Prehistoric graves from about 8000 BC in Lower Egypt suggest that a Libyan people enslaved a San-like tribe. read all of it. I see the normal employee, employer relationship as a form of slavery, as you offer your service in exchange for compensation. The Basic condition of Employment and other Acts protect the employee, as well as the employer. A form of bonded labour...

8. Child punishment  

This is an interesting topic. I have chatted with people saying because Jesus came, and released us from the laws of Moses, physical punishment of children is no longer a requirement. I have a view that in regards to teaching children right from wrong is for them to acknowledge the error made, towards the one they transgressed against. The punishment can be done in many forms, a good spanking, or even words, sometimes the “punishment” of apologizing can do the trick. One has to learn from an early age to that responsibility for the things they do, whether they get caught or not. There is no harm done in admitting one has erred. I apply it to what I deem the most appropriate for the situation. For example, if their room is untidy, and they have been requested numerous times to keep it, neat, an option is to get one of their close friends to clean it for them, for some amount of money. This may cause some embarrassment, which would make the other realize the implications of their actions…The important thing here is that there but be a form of “punishment, otherwise there will be no corrective action by the child. To teach your child right from wrong, is a sign of love.

9. Tattoos

Here I assume you talk of Lev 19:28. Personally, I have nothing against tattoos. I simply see no reason to do them either. The reference here to them in the people I assume they are talking about the tradition of other cultures the Israelites met, like the Kushites. What it say to me, is that in God’s eyes we are perfect already, and one doesn’t need to enhance your appear to enter in God’s presence. Those other cultures believe by cutting yourself, or making tattoo, give them special right in front of their gods. God said it wasn’t necessary. Some people also think that these markings made them stronger, or appear stronger. There are many form were people enhance or alter their appearance to be accepted by people or their gods. God of the bible say it isn’t necessary

10. Adultery

Adultery (also called philandery, anglicised from Latin adulterium) is sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than the spouse.  There are many versions; some churches have interpreted adultery to include all sexual relationships outside of marriage, regardless of the marital status of the participants. Since I met my wife in 2002, I have never seen the need to look at another woman sexually. She is all I need, all I want… I see no need to practice it, I would not be able to look her in the eyes and say she is the only one for me, knowing I would be lying… Don’t see it as an option. I love her too much…

Charles, I sincerely hope this assist you, so that you realize not all people are bad, and that things are not what you want them to be

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