News24

Cuba debt cancellation 'unbelievable'

2010-12-17 09:23

Many of the goings on in this country are so unbelievable, that often it feels as though they cannot be real.

Just recently the ANC government wrote off a R1.1bn debt to Cuba. Why? Does South Africa have billions to give away? Does the Health Department have no problems? Are there no mud schools in the country? Does every South African town have world class service delivery? Does everyone have access to electricity and water?

One would have to surmise that this country is in brilliant shape because if it is not, because how else can it give away such vast sums of money? In this instance, it appears to be because Cuba gave the President their highest Noddy Badge. They must have been struggling to not howl with laughter at this lunacy, which I’m sure they did as soon as “His Excellency” was out of earshot. Where does it end?

It has taken the Mail and Guardian to years to force the ANC government to release a report made by two judges, sent by Mbeki, to report on the 2002 Zimbabwe Election that Mbeki later described as been free and fair.

It is obvious that this was not what they reported but any level headed person with more than a G for woodwork in Matric would know this. We also know that the MDC won the 2008 election by a landslide even though Malema’s hero Mugabe had hundreds of MDC supporters murdered and thousands tortured in order to try and steal that election. He failed so he just then blatantly stole it. He has consistently agreed to meet his obligations in the GPA and then simply ignored them. Now he is preparing to murder and maim his party’s way back into power next year.

Zanu-PF are reportedly giving sanctuary to a Mr Mpiranya who was a commander in the Rwandan Presidential Guard. He is wanted by the International Criminal Tribunal for the Rwandan genocide and there is a $5m reward out for him by the Rewards for Justice Program. He is implicated in leading the genocide in Rwanda that resulted in over one million murders.

It is reported that he has businesses in Harare and is involved with training the notorious Zanu-PF Youth Militias before letting them loose on the poor Zimbabwean population prior to next year’s election. He is not the first murderous tyrant to find sanctuary with Mugabe. Mengestu, also wanted for the genocide of millions of his own citizens, has been a guest of Mugabe’s for many years.

In light of all this it seems that South Africa has been accepting and supporting the Mugabe regime since at least 2002 knowing full well that his government has not had the mandate of its citizens, whilst ignoring what Mugabe has done in order to retain power.

We then have to listen to the ramblings of Malema in support of what is essentially an illegitimate government brought about through terror and murder against its own people.

If the people of South Africa can accept this, woe and betide their freedoms to live and choose going into the future. It cannot be real. It must be a bad dream.

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Comments
  • bev18 - 2010-12-17 09:27

    This effing government is barking mad..........there is little hope for us, we might as well leave now. I am beyond comment, it MUST be a bad dream.

      Zoolie - 2010-12-17 11:07

      @Smanga and how long do you think it will take before you look onto the rest of the world to help you out. we are here to make it beter now. Chasing the people out of the country won`t benefit you for long.

      Willa - 2010-12-17 11:15

      Oh Smanga go play in the traffic. Honestly...that is such a pathetic response to this whole issue.

      JC - 2010-12-17 11:51

      You must rememeber that Cuba is one of africa closest friend, and it has never let its african brothers down. They do deserve our help. Thanks to their bravery they dont get intimitated by the west just as you so wish. Flight 626 for Aus is ready for you.

      Snoopy88 - 2010-12-17 14:02

      Um.. Thobile... writing off the debt means they don't have to pay it back so yeah.. its giving money away! And you accuse others of being stupid??

      jwill - 2010-12-18 11:12

      @JC, The world is an ever-changing system. Ja sure, Cuba was very sympathetic towards the struggle. However, Cuba (and a few other countries) still remain very bad examples of what it means to have true democracy. Thus, South Africa has to be very rational when they choose their international allies.....having a few "underdogs" as friends won't help a lot when international relations and commercial expansion needs diversification. We are already "frowned upon" at the UN.

      Zion - 2010-12-18 12:45

      JC, you don't know nutting yet. Cuba, one of Africa's closest friends is staring bankruptcy in the face. The truth of the matter is we, great South Africans with hearts of gold will never receive that money back even if it was not written off. You see Cuba is on the verge of bankruptcy. It is estimated that by 2011 it will be totally insolvent. Cuba owes several other countries billions and cannot repay it. Now just a question:- Who is the clown in SA that decided to lend money to a practically bankrupt country?. Some good and solid arsekicking should take place but the person doing that will have to stand on a ladder. Cuba is the last and final outpost of communism.

      Yaseen - 2010-12-20 09:22

      Thats a great idea Bev, leave now and dont come back. Whats taking u so long !!!!

      Dewet - 2010-12-20 10:23

      I have been to Cuba recently. Stayed with the normal, poor people in the run down streets of habana. Cuba is in an absolute mess. People are terribly unhappy and given the choice they would leave. They are not allowed to travel outside Cuba, have very little rights, no money and zero luxuries. Anyone considering Communis or Socialist policies should go stay in Habana, witht the real people, not in hotels and see what it's like. How it differs from us is that even if you you want to work hard and be successfull, you can't. The unhappiest, least ambitious people I have every met. Cuba helped SA during the armed struggle period, guess that might be why the government is lenient

      Lauren - 2010-12-20 10:32

      Smanga, you don't come across as all that intelligent. There is no place for your kind of racist in this country. I think you should consider leaving this country too. Your views are outdated and unrealistic. Leave the nation building to those of us who are really inspired and care about SA. Spare me your angry vitriol, it only makes me pity you even more.

  • Mike Webber - 2010-12-17 09:39

    There are two "sides" in this world of ours. "Imperialists" and Capitalists in one camp, and the Communists/Socialists in the other. It seems that Africa and it's "leaders" with side with anything and anyone who is against "white power", politically or economically. So we befriend communists and socialist revolutionaries who like hearing the sound of their own demented voices. The ANC will always be friends with the second camp, so no surprises here.

      Kenko - 2010-12-17 14:27

      Yup, what a shame.

      Tormore - 2010-12-18 12:33

      yap, corruption is HUGE in communist/socialist countries - and that's what the ANC seems to love: money, lots of money for me and my friends. Taking care of the country and its people? That will sort out itself!

      Dewet - 2010-12-20 10:29

      Cuba assisted ANC armed leg during the struggle. Che Guevara/ Fidel etc were famous revolutionaries and assisting the oppressed masses in the form of the ANC was a typical task they would assist with. If you look at Cuba today though, the romanticism of revolution fades away bleakly. Cuba is in a terrible mess. Many Cubans now claim that Cuba was better off under Batista, the dictator who was friendly towards outside investors

  • kim.attree - 2010-12-17 09:42

    Dear ANC supporters and voters, We decided to cancel R1.1 Billion (plus the R900 million last year) in debt to Cuba, and would like you to know that 20,000 families wont be getting RDP homes anymore, since canceling the debt of a failing socio-communist regime with zero world influence and a non-democratic dictatorship was more important than the faith and trust you put into us when you ticked that big cross next to "ANC" last time you voted. Expect more of the same in the coming years.

      inyaniso@24.com - 2010-12-17 10:29

      What a delightful comment! So practically apt and yet so far from the minds of the people this should matter to most. This posting is so good it is almost wasted in a user comments section on News24!

      Willa - 2010-12-17 11:16

      Brilliant Kim. How very true indeed.

      kim.attree - 2010-12-17 11:47

      @Inyaniso: Standard response from the ANC Droids. So far from the minds of the people that matter most ? Do you mean we have it wrong and the poor people of South Africa really don't care about things that can make their lives better like housing, running water, sanitation and education ? Are you trying to say these people also don't really mind having to suffer a bit more so that Cuba can feel a bit better about itself?(Fidel, Fidel, We have an ALLY !!!!) The people who this should matter to most is US, South Africans. We have enough problems of our own, and passing off R2 billion as if it were nothing when it could have built infrastructure, education or my personal ANC slogan "A better life for all..." is a slap in the face of anyone who voted ANC. Please refer back to the ANC handbook for an appropriate rebuttal and explanation for selling out your constituents.

      inyaniso@24.com - 2010-12-17 12:44

      OK Kim. Trying to figure out where you confused my comment for sarcasm???? Nonetheless, I am agreeing with your original post and stating that anyone with a greater interest into the welfare of this country beyond who is singing which struggle song, will know that a balance sheet of our available resources will just have been given a monster slap across the face that will be felt by more of the most needy countrymen who will not see improved service and infrastructure at the expense of Cuba's Christmas gift! Those amongst us who already have an education will carry the knowledge learnt forward, whilst those without, will continue to be unskilled. To these it should matter more. Through reality they will not see the simplicity of your post and doubt it will see the light of day through formal media channels. To reiterate, it is delightful to those of us in the know, and yet wasted for not making into the space of the communities who should most see it.

      kim.attree - 2010-12-17 13:20

      Hear Hear...

      Snoopy88 - 2010-12-17 14:12

      very eloquently put the both of you, kim and inyaniso.. Unlike the Zimbabweans we have nowhere South to run to... Fortunately its easily repairable.. we can vote them out district by district, province by province! Time for a new party that does not have any of the baggage of the old...

      Stryder - 2010-12-17 14:42

      Greta posts from both Kim and Inyaniso. @Snoopy-They will simply change the role of provinces or remove them completely before that happens. You assume that the ANC will play fair.

      Arsenefaithful - 2010-12-17 20:03

      Eish... Heavy attack on inyaniso@24.com, but she endorsed your comment. Either way I have to give it to you for your original comment.

      kim.attree - 2010-12-18 11:38

      Apologies to inyaniso, A cursory read had the tone of sarcasm, and instead of reading things twice, I loaded and fired.

      kolobe - 2010-12-18 14:13

      you didnt complain when the anc paid off NP regime debt...cuba's debt is a drop in the ocean.hypocrisy??

      Francois - 2010-12-19 23:31

      Ai tog Kolobe, every time you put something in writing you urge us to give you a copy of The Cat in the Hat so that you can get to comprehend the English language. Cuba is a different COUNTRY from South Africa which is also a COUNTRY. South Africa as a COUNTRY wrote off Cuba's debt. The National Party and the ANC are political parties that governed or still governs a country and part of the government function is to pay its own debt. The debt that the ANC you so alleged they paid was not with ANC money, but with the country South Africa's money. And the debt the NP incurred, they did so as the legal representative government of South Africa at that point in time and the lenders gave South Africa the money - thus the ANC did not pay any NP debt, but we the taxpayers of SA is now paying Cuban debt. If you still do not understand, please put in a postal address next time - so that I can send you pictures. Just as a matter of fact, the ANC said in the CODESA negotiations that they will honour the debt of the South African state, but that is higher grade reading. First start with THE CAT IN THE HAT and then THE RED IN THE BED - by Comrade Blade.

      hotfin - 2010-12-21 01:55

      Francois...I couldn't have put it better myself. A big thumbs up to you.

  • Punani - 2010-12-17 09:43

    The ANC wrote off the debt for media attention and as is the ANC economic policy...to scare off foreign investors. The reality is that Cuba could never pay the money back anyway. Their shattered economy is another shrine to the horror of communism. The ANC saw that they would never get their money back from a bankrupt communist state, so they wrote off the debt to gain polical favour from the illiterate masses.

      CTS - 2010-12-17 11:41

      My thoughts exactly!

      Snoopy88 - 2010-12-17 14:13

      hell that's an expensive PR exercise - surely Cuba has been paying it off in a million monthly instalments?

      Jamesons - 2010-12-17 20:15

      ye, my virgen credit card phones me every day even though I cant pay it back, maybe they will just say to me that its ok, you dont have to pay it back.

      Zion - 2010-12-18 12:56

      Punani, Let us get the facts straight. South Africa wrote the debt off because Cuba is unable to repay it. Cube, it is estimated, will be fully bankrupt by 2011. They owe several other countries billions. so I say tata ma billions. This is not a PR show by the government but they wanted it to look good by not telling the truth. as usual.

      Frungy - 2010-12-21 14:05

      Spot on Punani. Cuba hasn't paid 1 cent back in 20 years, and there's no reason to expect they would ever pay. Cancelling it is just realistic. Making a bit show of cancelling it is just political grandstanding. It's also worth noting that we didn't give them R1.1 bil in cash, it was in tractors, which proved so durable and hardworking that it promoted sales in other countries, who did pay, so this really is a marketing cost, not a complete write-off.

  • Emile - 2010-12-17 09:48

    What's that? You don't agree with His Excellency, President for Life Robert Mugabe's official policies? You're trying to undermine Zimbabwe and her precious democracy, aren't you? TRAITORS TO THE REVOLUTION! WHITE IMPERIALIST PIGS! GUARDS, GET 'EM!!!

  • retiefc - 2010-12-17 09:54

    What the hell, do you know how many RDP's you could have built for that money. Appartheid is long gone and so also these stupid gov ties that assisted you in the past. Get over it and let them pay what they owe.

  • Geo Farmer - 2010-12-17 09:55

    CITIZENS!!!! Here is another example of our government’s ineptitude. The undisputed fact is that the present ANC LEAD GOVERNMENT IS A LIABILITY TO SOUTH AFRICA!!! We as concerned readers must do all in our power to mobilize the masses to VOTE them out..... OTHERWISE.... the children of today and future generations will hold us ACCOUNTABLE for the waste land that they will inherit. PEOPLE WAKE UP!!!

      Jamesons - 2010-12-17 21:54

      agreed.

  • askari.za - 2010-12-17 09:58

    I have decided to not pay tax as they clearly do not need any money. I was going to eventually get around to doing my last 2 years tax returns but wont bother now.

      moiraine - 2010-12-19 10:52

      aaahhhh, but askari, that is where you are wrong. You forget, without our tax money they wont be able to write off any more loans next year!

  • Phalo - 2010-12-17 10:14

    Ugly article indeed. What were you trying to say? Talk about the debt cancelation? Zimbabwe? Mbeki ( most white people using news24 always feel their week or day is not complete without trashing Mbeki? So what are you trying to convey? It is pointless spewing your hatred of ANC at every corner. Had you stuck by the subject matter, the debate would have been objective. For now, go on and tickle your fellow whites, energise the frenzy and make sure to alianate as many black people as possible. Continue with your white supremacy, and leave logic well alone.

      Zoolie - 2010-12-17 10:30

      What did i say ? typical. Cant you see behind those 2 flaps. Your goverment is raping you and you are crying for more. That is the logic.

      Stryder - 2010-12-17 10:35

      Phalo; what do you think about the 1 billion debt write off?

      jwill - 2010-12-17 10:53

      Phalo, You actually do have a good point regarding the article enmeshing unrelated issues, thereby rendering the article partly incoherent. However, the various parts of the article do deserve debate. Our country's stance on diplomacy and which countries they choose to befriend do raise eyebrows....thus deserving of comment.

      GVA - 2010-12-17 10:54

      @Phalo There is nothing to debate. Stupid is what stupid does! End of story.

      Carl - 2010-12-17 10:57

      Phalo, sounds like you are a Mbeki fan.... still a ANC supporter after your hero was dumped?

      AJ - 2010-12-17 11:03

      @Phalo: your comments on the ANC letting Cuba off a 1.1 billion rand debt please? Keep your racial sterotyping to yourself and stay on topic.

      Dave - 2010-12-17 11:18

      And Phalo's favourite quote on his FB page is...... Why steal when you can cheat? Makes you think doesnt it?

      Gunner24 - 2010-12-17 11:34

      Come on Phalo,we are all waiting to hear what you think about the debt being cancelled while 95% of your fellow blacks are no better off than when under apartheid.You seem to be doing OK? what about 'your brothers'walking miles to pump water and their kids doing their homework under candlelight.

      blinkersoff - 2010-12-17 12:05

      Now you know who has the G in woodwork. Can anyone really be so stu**d? Consider this; there are a multitude of reasons to dislike the ANC. Not because we are white or that the majority of blacks follow them; it comes down to they are screwing up the country. It's that simple. Electricity price hikes, inferior to non-existent service delivery, an inept (a dictionary will help on this one) police force, open borders leading to greater social instability, corruption, and so on - need more be said? However you still insist on supporting them. Granted the Zimbabwe part didn't necessarily fit with the article; however, the relevance is clear because in many ways we are heading there. Why don't you open your eyes and see your beloved ANC is a clique and not doing anything substantial for the country except ruin it.

      Mr.Glum - 2010-12-17 12:49

      @Phalo. You almost sound like that ANC die-hard Poliyatonki. Don't defend the ANC badge, but address the principle of the issue here. Why not stick to the essence of the article and answer the question above "what do you think about the 1 billion debt write off?" which is needed in so many areas in our own country.

      Snoopy88 - 2010-12-17 14:21

      What can't you understand about the article? He very clearly juxtaposed the ANC government's use of OUR (mine and yours) money to try look altruistic with them turning a blind eye to murder and mayhem on our own continent.

      Stryder - 2010-12-17 14:45

      Still no answer Phalo? Are you subscribing now to the strategy of just keeping quiet and looking stupid, rather than saying something and proving it?

      Worldwise - 2010-12-18 09:16

      Phalo Mjikwa on his FB page is an IT manager. He has economics degrees from a watered down SA university, enough to get him a BEE job. His favourite quotation is "Why steal when you can cheat?" He reads a lot, understands a lot of politics, economics and History. From his post this aspect is debatable. Phalo, as a BCom with economics majors, what better purposes do you think the debt written off to Cuba could have been used for? How many social grants could it have paid for or how many RDP houses could it have built? Please answer, you don't want to get a G for this test. BEE persons do not get lenient marking nor starter points. You're on your own to compete. Cheating not allowed, even if you would rather cheat than steal.

      Zion - 2010-12-18 13:19

      Phalo, You seem to be seriously misinformed about white preferences. Of all the presidents except for Mandela white South Africans have the greatest respect for Mbeki. Our impression is Mbeki did not come up to expectations of the ANC because intellectually he was far above them. Mbeki was well received by the international community due to his superior intelligence while Zuma has become a laughing stock of SA and a figure of fun. In the meantime try to get that chip off your shoulder.

      Alfred - 2010-12-19 20:55

      Phalo, I think you're mistaking "white supremacy" for common sense. Numbnuts.

  • GVA - 2010-12-17 10:25

    He wrote off their debt but how much did they put in his back pocket? The big smile never left his face when he was there!!

      Serias - 2010-12-17 10:43

      Obviously, did you think he would do it out of the goodness of his heart? African politics demand that there is a change of money for ANYTHING my brother. The welfare of the masses don't matter, only the inner circle of comrades.

      Snoopy88 - 2010-12-17 14:23

      Yep I tell you, Zuma is just in this for as long as he can hold on to the gravy train. He doesn't give a damn about anything else. That's why he dances every chance he gets...

  • Anthony - 2010-12-17 10:38

    African leaders love an award and no amount of money is too much to be awarded some sort of honour by another country. Our president was recently awarded "The Order of Jose Marti", whatever that is, so its hardly surprising that they were given the billion.

  • croix - 2010-12-17 10:43

    There, you see? It is possible to get lower than a 'G' (for goofed) in woodwork, but in standard 6 !

  • chub - 2010-12-17 10:53

    The start of Russia's Marxism-Communism in the early 20th century, Vladimir Lenin used scientific findings at the time. That monkeys could be trained by using force, applying the same principles on humans. The removal of Religion. Responsible for estimated 20 million people until 1921 when Joseph Stalin took over. Stalin responsible for an estimated total of 40 million in deaths. Shifting people from one place to another and dictate what their supposedly duty was. The inevitable happened, corruption. To fix books and numbers so that the truth of the rotting doesn't show and to face execution by those higher in ranks. It only starts to make sense once you read simple books like "The Animal Farm". They become what they were fighting to begin with.

  • Willa - 2010-12-17 11:11

    You hit the nail right on the head there. Lunacy.

  • semaj - 2010-12-17 11:21

    You will probably find that the debt was due to be repaid into a secret account of one of the newly fallen-from-grace ANC comrades, hence the cancellation. However, that does not minimise the crass, nay, craven fact that many poor people in this country are now deprived for a further few years while this bankrupt government scratches around for funds to put roofs over their heads. But, I guess they do not know about the generosity of the ANC govt towards foreign countries, so will never complain or burn down a government building or three.

  • johng - 2010-12-17 12:03

    Funny that the Castro family is one of the wealthiest in the world. ( as well as Mugabe,Arrafat, Jong ill, ) the lovely communist list goes on!! We however still love and support them. My god, what a mess.

      Mr.Glum - 2010-12-17 13:28

      I think the right phrase here would be something like “Capitalist dictator imperialistic communists”

      shortcut - 2010-12-17 13:49

      I wish wikileaks would give us some dirt on these thieving African leaders.

  • thobile1 - 2010-12-17 13:44

    I didn't know that writting off a debt is equivalent to "giving money away". You idiots! Would you rather the R1bn reflects forever in SA's debtors' books as if it's ever gonna be paid? You are a bunch of uneducated idiots, and you deserve having your blood pressures elevated for this!

      Zion - 2010-12-17 14:19

      Read my comment below. I think we have been too hasty passing judgement without first first doing some homework. Cuba is so to say Bankrupt. They are not able to repay any of their debts. China is going ballistic because they want their money and Cuba proposes an extention from 1 to4 years repayment period. Think of the interest. So it is a case of tata ma billions.

      Brieuse - 2010-12-17 21:15

      yes, we just gave them a billion. Gone. That could have been used to build oh I don't know, maybe a power station?

      Jamesons - 2010-12-17 22:23

      South africans need to look after them selfs first?? oh, but we like living in shacks and sewage now dont we

      Alfred - 2010-12-19 21:08

      Why is "writting" off debts not equivalent to giving money away? Not paying debts is equivalent to stealing which is probably why you're okay with it. R1bn, gone. But then I guess you deserve going round to the "bunch of uneducated idiots" asking for "deh kreesmus box" because you're "suffahreeng".

  • Snoopy88 - 2010-12-17 14:01

    @ JC - hold off on the big love for Cuba. Do you know that they QUARANTINE their HIV positive population? yeah imagine that policy in SA... Almost everyone would be behind bars. Get educated about world affairs please before you make stupid comments.

      Don - 2010-12-17 16:08

      Hey Snoopy Boy: Quarantine for HIV positive population? - Love it! -Perhaps the numbers will be on parity and whites would win the elections hands down! WHOOP WHOOP

  • Garry - 2010-12-17 14:02

    It is about time that all South Africans woke up and smelt the SHIT, the ANC once they have filled their own pockets through corruption and outright theft, support their commie comrades to the full. This country has been raped and damned to a future of poverty, poor service, poor education and ill health because of the ANC.

  • Snoopy88 - 2010-12-17 14:05

    LOL I'm sorry but its this sort of thinking that's the reason this country is in so much trouble financially - 'thobile1 - I didn't know that writting off a debt is equivalent to "giving money away". You idiots! Would you rather the R1bn reflects forever in our debtors' books as if it's ever gonna be paid? You are a bunch of uneducated idiots, and you deserve having your blood pressures elevated for this!' So as long as you fiddle the books the money isnt gone?

      shortcut - 2010-12-17 14:12

      LOL, yes, it doesn't even help to try explain to thobile why it is a loss. Can you imagine what a mess thobile's personal finances must be! BTW... Are you serious about Cuba quarantining HIV population?

      thobile1 - 2010-12-17 14:54

      All I'm saying Snoopy, if you even have the brain to fathom, is that writting off of a debt is a business decision and has nothing to do with "giving". It is NOT "fiddling with the books" as you put it - it was announced on television for heaven's sake. SA's debts have been written off before by other countries as well, dumba$$. Educate yourself. I guess you are still hanging on to debts by your mates from yonks ago. I feel sorry for you...

      Dave - 2010-12-17 16:02

      True semantics here....by writing off the debt, you are in fact "giving" was was originally sold to the customer, and in this case with no legal consequences, so yeah, Cuba got the damn tractors for free in the end.....and I would certainly be interested to find out what debts have been written off in favour of South Africa

      Robert - 2010-12-17 23:03

      @thobile1: For once I agree with you that writing (not writting) of the debt was a business decision. This decision was to win favor with comrades and brothers in communism. To elevate our wonderful presidents name with the communist world (including the ANCYL - our educated future leaders) in order show the world, and in particular the colonialists, that Africa does not need them! Who the hell cares for the failing water systems, electricity problems, crime, "extreme" poverty, - the list goes on, as long as the government fat cats are rolling around in their own dirty wealth and feeding off of the gullible uneducated masses ignorance. Just look at our other wonderful African leaders and heroes how they manage to lead their country of poverty and crime, to name a few: Robert Mugabe; forget the country and people, have you seen his mansion! I mean wow - what a leader (please don't blame him for the poverty, it's the previous governments fault, the colonialists). Yoweri Kaguta Museveni of Uganda, have you seen this mans mansion - who cares about the starving children. etc.etc.etc

      Snoopy88 - 2010-12-18 01:11

      Thobile my honey... keep your hair on! Ok If I was a money lender and I lent you a billion bucks there would be a rather large hole in my bank account. A 'business decision' as you put it is when I charge you interest on the original loan. By just cancelling the debt I would not only be giving away the original billion lent but also all the interest I would have earned... So yes it is giving it away... more so because its OUR money and not the ANC's! The party and not the government have used our money for political brownie points scoring and to give the finger to the 'Imperialists', whoever they might be this week. Don't just blindly defend.. You have to question everything dude! Oh and I'm all for dropping the debt for African countries. I just think its madness South Africa doing it when we are scraping the bottom of the barrel here... When SARS starts turning up at road blocks - that's a very bad sign! And as for money and my mates... I have this policy 'Never lend more than you can afford to give away - except in times of illness'.

      Snoopy88 - 2010-12-18 01:34

      @ Shortcut - from the 80s till 1994 they treated HIV/Aids like any communicable disease, which meant off to the 'sanitorium' you went, never to return. They eventually stopped it because of the outcry about ethics. But positive patients still need to spend a couple of months in quarantine for treatment and 'education'. The scary thing is statistically they've beaten it. First thing they did was destroy all blood products from foreign sources. Some interesting articles about it online. I think South Africa may need to go that direction at some point... We are sitting on a powder keg playing with matches! Our economically active population is being decimated. We are losing skilled people faster than we can train them. I heard the death rate is 2000 a day?? Over a million orphaned children already... and often their only option for a livelihood is crime. Nobody will say it but I think it suits the government that Aids is mowing people down... that's why they dragged their feet rolling out treatment. Its taking care of the poverty problem cheaply isn't it? But they don't see the bigger picture. This epidemic is going to change everything... Anyway that's my little drum that I bang!

  • SP1984 - 2010-12-17 14:08

    @Everyone It's all well and good that we all think it's wrong, but ask yourselves on a serious note, what can we do to stop a ruling party who are bowing down to the worst communist nations in the world? What can we do to actually change the status quo? Keep in mind that putting the DA in power would bring more unstability to our nation even though they are far more competent than the ANC. What can we do to stop this corruption, and how can we actually put the people in place that will take the most intelligent actions in solving our problems? The ANC is no longer a party that represents the fight for freedom, it is now filled with capitalists acting with communistic tendencies while trying to convince the people of a socialist future. Why should we pay for excessive tolls on the N1 when our fuel taxes, licensing fees, traffic fines, and registration fees are supposed to be used for that purpose? Why should we pay higher VAT and higher income taxes for the NHI if we know for a fact that half the money won't reach its intended destination? Why should we pay capital gains taxes when the government has played no part in us realising a profit? Why should we be penalised for taking advantage of opportunities? Why should 4 million people pay income taxes to support 40 million when the reality is that the funds are so mismanaged, only 2 million people are supporting the country and the balance is going to Chancellor house? What can we do to stop this sh!%?

      Kenko - 2010-12-17 14:43

      We can't do anything, unfortunately. Except maybe, get it through the masses' thick skulls that they should stop their support for the ANC.

      exocist - 2010-12-17 19:18

      what crystal ball do you posses that tells you there will be more instability if the da comes to power, if they come to power it will be because the larger perdentage of the populations wants them in, the rest will have to toe the line for 4 years , exactly the same thats been happening the last 15 years

      Jamesons - 2010-12-17 23:17

      The honest truth is that this country is in a mess and it is going to take a long time to fix it, the only problem is, is that its going to take even longer if the ANC stays in power/ or wont get fixed at all as seen in the last 16 years

      IanJ - 2010-12-18 07:13

      Your are not going to fix it because Africans will always support Africans and despite glaring FACTS they always vote for the President / Ruling Party, just like they did 100's of years ago when they were running around like bush pygmies supporting the Tribal King. Look at Zimbabwe - it's a mess but but old Mugabe still gets masses of legitimate votes plus a few he manages to add himself. Stop thinking 'White' and you will see better.

      Thamie_Durba - 2010-12-20 09:50

      I for one, has joined my branch of the ANC (the ruling party for the foreseeable future) to influence the kind of delegate that elects the leadership of the party. I do not see myself or any black person who reads the comments of other races on News24 comments and listens to the DA voting for any other party. May be you (SP1984) can also join your branch of the ANC to do the same.

      inyaniso@24.com - 2010-12-21 13:04

      How long do you think it will take for you to change things from inside Thamie? I for one am not prepared to wait until you are a mkhulu to see these changes! There will not be much left to pillage by then.

  • Zion - 2010-12-17 14:12

    Gunshot, There is an interesting twist in the tale of the 1,1bn that was written off by Zuma. I have a document taken off the wikileaks describing a breakfast meeting between diplomats of Cubas main trading partners:China, Spain, Canada, Brazil and Italy. as well as France and Japan which are the islands top creditors. Cuba could survive this year but The financial situation would become fatal within 2 to 3 years. China was complaining that the loans were not being repaid. It was predicted that Cuba would be insolvent as early as 2011. Cuba requested that loan terms be extended from 1 yr to 4yrs. From the info it seems that Cuba's africultural reforms have failed too. There is much doubt that the economy of Cuba can still be saved. Now we can understand why Zuma wrote off the 1.1bn. We would probably never have been repaid anyway. The moral of the story is: don't lend money to 3rd world communist countries. Scroll down for website address. http://www.msnbc.mwsn.com/id/40601162/ns/us/-news-wikileaks-in-security/

      skullkey - 2010-12-17 16:50

      This sounds about right - why not score a couple of points before the ship sinks? Pity about Cuba's failing economy though ...

      kurtkt - 2010-12-17 17:11

      Hey Zion, unfortunately, people don't want to take facts into account. They much prefer trading racist barbs with each other. And that goes for both sides

      gregx - 2010-12-18 18:28

      Cubas a failing economy?, and we are learning from them? Following them perhaps?

  • capetownblogger - 2010-12-17 14:12

    I have no words. You can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink but my favorite and definitely applies to the majority of our population." Al dra n aap n goue ring dit bly nog steeds n lelike ding"

  • PikeLee - 2010-12-17 14:56

    Maybe JZ thinks the Cuban chicks are hot? Who knows, a couple of Cuban wives would do nicely, and even the odd cigar. Thats worth a billion don't you think? Why else would one do something so stupid...

  • TGIL - 2010-12-17 15:14

    it doesnt end - thats black governance

      Bratt - 2010-12-17 15:30

      Remember that the ANC is not a blacks only party. And remember that just because they dont represent all blacks. Remember to think before uttering nonsense next time. But who am I kidding... that's probably beyond you.

  • Vaal Donkie - 2010-12-17 15:37

    This whole country is broken beyond repair. Leave if you can afford it, otherwise you're screwed.

  • Big Mouth - 2010-12-17 16:12

    The typical ANC voter does not care, cos it's not their money. Finished and Klaar.

      Thamie_Durba - 2010-12-20 16:08

      Hey, Big mouth, a lot of blacks are tax payers as well, especially the ones commenting on News24. This lie of only whites paying taxes, is a bit outdated. Look in your Surbarbs and see who leaves there!

      PDP - 2010-12-21 08:07

      Yes, let's all see who "leaves" there!

      Thamie_Durba - 2010-12-21 10:00

      @PDP I am glad that your only retort, is only to a spelling error! Such WHITE intelligence!!!!!

  • Amanda - 2010-12-17 16:14

    They did WHAT????? then again anything is possible. I also want my outstanding debt cancelled!! who van I speak too? who do I write a letter too? all of us who owe money, let all write a letter to the ANC and ask that our debt be cancelled? wonder what would happen if we all did and they excuses us all? phew phew phew not good news for our economy...

  • Spyker May - 2010-12-17 19:20

    Gunns... Dude, we may as well be candid about at least one thing. The ANC just did not have of a choice. They simply played the only ‘politically-correct’ card they could. Cuba is bankrupt and in financial collapse. That money is gone, end of story... http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/cuba_goin_for_broke_KS8gI3PvILzAmIkNoMO64M Remember, Zimbabwe demonstrated the extent of the “Struggle”-comrades’ absolve. The key concern is rather – what is it about Cuba, Zimbabwe, etc that does not demonstrate where SA is, or where SA is going..? Here is a taste of what is waiting for us, to go with “...ration coupons...”, “...scrounging money for basic necessities such as shampoo, requires conniving or bending the rules and working the black market...”, http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2008/02/how-poor-does-c.html While Cubans can take flight to the USA, where are we going to go..? As I understand it, ONE MAN VOTE, DID NOT MEAN, ONE MAN ONE BOAT... A reminder, SOCIALISM IS THE ABOLITION OF THE INDIVIDUAL FOR THE SAKE OF THE STATE. What more is it going to take to shake us out of our “braaivleis and brannewyn” hammocks..?

      Bratt - 2010-12-19 22:01

      if they are bankrupt, why give them more credit then?

  • angelwings - 2010-12-17 20:08

    @Smanga,have you & poliodonkey perhaps started a kind of club for idiots?You seem to have the same way of thoughts.We all love this country but there comes a time that one has to say enough is enough.But then again why would you care, you are probably the majority who does not contribute tax.If I don't pay taxes I will be locked up or penalised where is the logic. If you are su eager for complainers to jump in the sea,why don't your kind stop asking for handouts and do something for yourselves for staters.

  • Anne - 2010-12-17 22:03

    Cuba is a sad island where poverty, decay and neglect are glaringly obvious everywhere. Many people don't have jobs or hope for the future. The younger generation of Cubans are fully aware of how they are being oppressed by Fidel Castro, the doddering old dictator, and his Communist regime. Even their 'academic' hospital in Cuba is falling apart with peeling paint everywhere. Where does the money go? Sounds familiar? I've been there, I've seen it. Here's more. The clock stopped for Cuba around 1960 when this regime came into power. There are no new cars; all cars are old clunkers from the fifties. So are clothes and makeup fashions. At first it is very quaint and cool to feel as if you're stuck in a time warp. Then you become aware of the underlying sadness and lost hope of the Cuban people. Everything is strictly controlled by the state. Negative propaganda against America is pervasive. Armed guards are everywhere, so it is very dangerous to speak your mind and you get thrown in prison for doing that which we still take for granted here. Human dignity does not exist there. My sincere prayer is that Cuba is not a glance into the future of what S.A. may be like fifty, sixty years down the line. However, our government's persistent flirtation and admiration of this oppressive regime is certainly very telling. I am seeing red flags everywhere.

      John Wilderness - 2010-12-17 23:43

      What are you worried about "fifty, sixty years down the line" ??? You have just described what SA was 30, 40 years ago under apartheid rule.

      Anne - 2010-12-18 04:21

      Have you seen Cuba? I didn't think so.

      Gary - 2010-12-18 06:21

      john clueless you lie

      Spyker May - 2010-12-18 08:17

      Yes John Bunting Wilderness, About the same time you were still hunting Abo’s like animals – still one of the favourite sports of all times in Australia. After all, its your country (Australia), where a court judge openly declared: ”...I look on the blacks as a set of monkeys, and the earlier they are exterminated from the face of the earth the better...” A country where a newspaper like the Sydney Morning Herald printed the following about the massacre of black people: “...The whole gang of black animals are not worth the money the colonists will have to pay for printing the silly [court] documents...” You male make “the pot calling the kettle black” look like Julius Malema calling his black Range Rover a racist... All you are doing, you freak, you are reaffirming that Apartheid was just a ‘red herring’. I look forward to you next comment – I am starting to enjoy this.

      Zion - 2010-12-18 14:21

      Anne, no offence but cadre Fidel Castro is no longer in power. He handed over the reigns to his brother, Ruaol, due to failing health.

      Anne - 2010-12-18 20:39

      You're right, Zion. Not that the brother is any better, hey? Now I'm wondering if Fidel is still alive. Haven't heard or seen the comrade in a long time.

      HardHitter - 2010-12-20 07:49

      ... and Cuba is so wonderfull that all try and go to the United States ruled majorly by whites.(Obama has just got the worst review for any President ever) Its like SA, apartheid was so bad that the whole zimbabwe is streaming here to pick up the crumbs that ,that bad, white colonialist piece of rubbish , Verwoerd left behind!

  • Anne - 2010-12-17 22:25

    One more thing. Cubans are not allowed to have computers, which are ridiculously expensive there anyway. So they don't have a clue what is going on in the outside world. They are carefully and purposely being kept ignorant. They are not free to leave the island when they want to. They are stuck there at the mercy of unscrupulous people who feel zero for the freedom and wellbeing of their fellow countrymen. To me the so-called 'heroes' of the revolution look like the villains they actually are.

      Snoopy88 - 2010-12-18 01:49

      Bit like our regime keeping everyone ignorant with exhorbitant internet costs. Thank God for the cell phone... Africa's laptop! I take the greatest pleasure in printing pictures of Mugabe's palace and handing it to every Zimbabwean I meet.

  • John Wilderness - 2010-12-17 23:39

    These Apartheid apologist argue as if they had something better while the world laughs at how they dug themselves and their country into a hole and then they still want to take a shot at every "black" incompetence they see while history has proven and exposed their bigotry and hipocracy.

      Spyker May - 2010-12-18 05:02

      Hey John Bunting Wilderness, Dude, why don’t you go and hang out on the periphery of the beaches with a hunting rifle, looking for innocent ex-pat Saffas to peg off, it brings greater iniquitous pleasure than this silly verbal autoeroticism... Your evident White-Afro-phobia, is now reaching a level of psychosis, that requires formal attention. Make peace with the fact that white South Africans are notably more intelligent- and vastly more attractive than any sheep-shagging in-breads, with all the associated deleterious traits, will EVER be. Your manic melancholy about an evidently higher race, is just felo-de-se, it will drive you to join the exceeding number of Aussies doing the hara-kiri... Albeit not clear, why you lot are driving yourselves off to “happy hunting grounds”, all on your own – if the ‘Outback’ is then such a [quote] fine country [unquote]...

      Gary - 2010-12-18 06:19

      Africa as a whole and especially South Africa is the toilet of the world because of stupidity like yours.

      Zion - 2010-12-18 14:16

      Apparantly you know very little as to what is going on in this country. Maybe you read a piece in NEWS24 and think you have it all covered. With the history in your own country, rather odious, why do you not take on those that meted it out in the past. Yes I know why and that is because you are probably too yellow. It is easier to do it in a foreign country under a nom-de-plume. I have read several of your comments and they come over as bombastic and bulldust-for-brains. Now you can start attacking the neo-nazis in Germany. What I last heard is that the Asians are discriminated where you are, you bunch of racists.

      Gary - 2010-12-18 21:46

      Hey Zion are you saying John cluess is in Germany, scared of neo nazi's an not protecting asians?

      Zion - 2010-12-19 07:18

      Gary, No this clown is is in Australia, playing judge and jury on the world at large while his country of preference also has their albatros around their neck. Further, if he wants action he can also stick his nose in Burma and China and sort their human rights violations out. on the other hand It would be better if he just kept quiet.

      Gary - 2010-12-20 00:02

      Australia certainly has an atrocious record. Seems like he is to cowardly to comment on that and it does not fit with his psychotic obsession with the Nats and the South Africa of a generation ago.

  • Joe - 2010-12-18 01:44

    "Does every South African town have world class service delivery?" Not anymore. "Does everyone have access to electricity and water?" Not anymore.

      4daluvofSA - 2010-12-20 14:05

      Not anymore??!!! Are you trying to say that everyone in SA had access to electricity and water before?! Are you sure you are talking about the whole of SA or just the surburbs where you grew up?

  • Julius - 2010-12-18 10:21

    Why are you surprised - the behaviour of the anc government is by the Book " How to run (down) a country"

  • BilboBaggins - 2010-12-18 12:17

    Cut to the chase. Money not retrieved = money lost to the economy. How many houses could have been built for the poor, forgotten and downtrodden citizens of this country? STOP always getting so childish with pointless racist comments. Focus on the PROBELM and not the PERSON. That money should have been paid back so that we could have used it to improves the lives of the people living in utter poverty and degradation. Being gradiose with failed socialist states means that you are putting another country ahead of your own people. Why do the politicians and loudmouths want to sweep the problems in their own country (and the failed service delivery) under the carpet?? Why is it so difficult to admit that this government has failed its people and why must everything have a 'race card'? Is this what black people fought the struggle for???? To be neglected and in the same position as 16 years ago in many cases?? To once again be gagged in terms of reporting and challenging the government?? Or is it a case of "as long as black people screw us over, it is okay"? Stand up for your rights, please.

      Zion - 2010-12-19 07:27

      Approximately 11000 given that in 2002 the price for these brick shanties was about R40 000. My Estimate is R100 000 given that the corruption and theft is not too high.

      Mordred - 2010-12-20 02:29

      BilboBaggins there is no such thing as the poor, forgotten, downtrodden, ill, starving and unemployed masses anymore. The ANC government only let us believe this sothat they could take more money from the taxpayers to fill their coffers to enrich the ANC government. The strikes, marches and toy-toying were only used as a ploy. So there really is no longer the so-called disadvantaged people and nobody will ever convince me of this again. It really is such a relief for me and now I can concentrate on my family by stopping all my charitable donations and trying to help these people.

  • kolobe - 2010-12-18 14:11

    well the very same anc government paid of the apartheid regime debt.cuba's debt is just a drop in the ocean. dont even know how an illegitimate apartheid regime managed to rake in debt.why dont you and your people complain about that?

      Spyker May - 2010-12-18 15:06

      Kolobe, This time you are not wrong. Indeed the ANC inherited “Apartheid debt”. It was not quite as copious as you are trying to depict (more like getting a house in Houghton with only the last few payments outstanding), but I will allow you the rare pleasure of a legitimate jab at the “settlers”. As such you may therefore have noted that I did not make a fuss of the Cuban debt case – as always, some form of perspective is needed, to separate dense emotions from the ‘enlightened emotive’. As mentioned before – the tangible matter here are rather to take careful note of what is happening in Cuba; we are at the entrance of the same rapidly downward spiralling tube...

      Lauren - 2010-12-20 11:18

      Agreed, Kolobe. Does that however make it OK for our government to be giving away money to a failed country? Perhaps you feel it does and you are entitled to that opinion. Point is however, you should not let the past dictate what happens in the future and it seems that you are hell bent on following that approach to life. Pointing at what others did who came before you is a childish five year old's game and it's time that South Africans step up and out of mediocrity.

  • Hans-Erik Iken - 2010-12-18 17:51

    SO SA is giving away so much of the little money it has to another broke, failed communist experiment. ANd then there are still a lot os people in the ANC and co who believe that the socialist/communist dream is something to pursue in this nation..... It boggles the mind that there are actually still people who believe that tha utopian system can work, even after it failed miserably in each and every country where it was tried. Appalling human rights record, shockingly poor economies (even in basically rich countries before the nutters took over) and none a functioning democracy, eventhough according to their political beliefs it should be an egaletarian system. Lets hope that the idiots who support this will never have the power to turn SA to that failed and misguided system.

      Zion - 2010-12-19 07:44

      The appearance of Communism is a result of a weakness in democracy. Democracy gives you the right to vote for whom you like and what you like. When you legitimately vote for a communist party you are voting yourself out of power. The system you are voting for is irreversable because there will be no elections again. That is communism. When did we last have an election in China or the defunct Soviet Union - never. In SA People will go to their graves never knowing what is right or wrong, good or bad but they will run after a wil-O-the-whisp in search of a better life which they will never see due to the inherent corruption in every communist system.

  • FreeMan2 - 2010-12-18 18:14

    Don't worry guys, this will all be returned when Cuba's major and thriving industries invest in South Africa creating thousands of jobs. South Africa does not need the pittance of a R1bn to do that, what does South Africa need that for really. The outcry this letter makes is really just rediculous.

      PDP - 2010-12-21 08:14

      Imagine how many dr's they'll send us for that amount of money?

  • gregx - 2010-12-18 18:21

    Well said Gunnshot! You are right on all the points you covered. The reason Quba's debt was cancelled is that the responsible person (president) probably told them... give me 10% and well write the debt off. It's like the old fable of how one catches a baboon. Put a sweet in a hole just smaller than his fist so he can squeeze his hand in, but when he has got the sweet his hand is in a fist and therefore bigger and he cannot get free because he will never let go of that sweet. Essentially, mugabe, malema, zuma and ALL their supporters are baboons. Then you have (obviously black) idiots like Smanga who just dont seem to get it and they won't until the country is F"$%&D like Zim, then they will blame apartheid. This is the problem, the mugabes, malemas of the world preach to the majority uneducated brainless bafoons, or baboons? Sad to say the least.

  • Parko - 2010-12-18 20:25

    The 1 billion to cover up will come from rich white and indian tax payers - so no problem /SARCASM

  • Blip - 2010-12-19 07:02

    In a democracy you'll get the government you deserve.

  • Blip - 2010-12-19 07:02

    In a democracy you'll get the government you deserve.

  • analog2014 - 2010-12-19 08:33

    Of course it is ridiculous. With R1.1 billion, imagine how many low cost houses you could build, or how many policemen you could pay, or how many pilots you could train, or how many children you could educate, or how many people you could feed..... But what do you expect from this government, led by an idiot like Zuma?

  • Frank - 2010-12-19 15:16

    Dear ANC Can you please cancel all my debts as well. Thank you

  • Shengu - 2010-12-19 17:15

    Cuba deserves more than that. Cuba spent Trillions in Angola to defeat the apartheid forces. Remember the defeat at Cuito Cuanivale, which is still smouldering today. That was the work of Fidel Catro liberating first Namibia then South Africa. Bones and scrap metal from G4/5's, Eland Tank, Hippos are still burning there. The Cubans must submit their expense claims and South Africa and Namibia must pay. To hell with the effing losers at Cuito Cuanavale.

      SA1 - 2010-12-19 18:37

      Obviously u were still in moms womb when that happened!!!!!!,I was and we obliterated the Cubans,Russians and SWAPO,APLA etc right to the 33rd parralel-IDIOT!!

      Spyker May - 2010-12-19 20:50

      Shengu, All that “is still smouldering today”, brother, is your bottleneck... In the 1988 battle in the Cuito Cuanavale- and Cuando Cubango provinces, the SADF single-handedly fought Angolan-, Cuban and Soviet forces, plus the entire world (due to sanctions and a direct UN resolution). “Victory” existed only in the mind of Castro (a bit like victory in Iraq existed only in the mind of George Bush) - else, Castro’s forces would have moved into Namibia - they never did. Some G5 howitzers (etc) got stuck due to heavy rains and were left behind (customary in war). But it was never seized by Cuba/FAPLA/SWAPO – you have to ask why..? Both side claimed victory to the battle... However, shall I remind you, the FAPLA-Cuban losses were around 20 000, while the SADF losses were almost insignificant in comparison. Not to mention the massive material loss to Angola and consequently Cuba. In fact so severe, by the middle of 1991, Cuba had completely withdrawn from Angola (thus, the SADF managed to drive Cuba out of Angola). The Soviet Union collapsed shortly afterwards (coincidently..?). Indeed many would argue Cuba lost the war - hence it is a financial basket-case today. If you study the history carefully, you will see Namibia was liberated by Chester Crocker from the United States of America and not Castro. If you seriously think Fidel Castro liberated SA – have another drag of the bottle-neck... Thus in accord “To hell with the effing losers at Cuito Cuanavale” – namely the Cubans...

      shocked - 2010-12-20 07:17

      You are as annoying and useful as a piece of sh!t stuck on the bottom of a shoe!

      4daluvofSA - 2010-12-20 14:11

      @Lauren, thank you! Well said!!

      Diamond Dog - 2011-01-04 10:06

      Now go lick your wounds dog. LMFAO.

  • Kyle_logan - 2010-12-19 17:28

    @JC only an igorant fool would think cuba was helping SA...

  • ChristopherGlenHarrison - 2010-12-20 00:44

    Cuba is a valuable ally, and our relationship with them, both in the past and the present, has been remarkably fruitful. If there is hope for the developing world, then in large part it must stem from a growing integration and cooperation amongst the developing nations that are world leaders in some regard - both SA and Cuba easily qualify. Add to this that much of the debt was, in fact, repayment on emergency credit lines established after a devastating hurricane, and the inability of the Cubans to meet their repayment obligations due to a vast and malicious campaign of economic sabotage waged by Washington. So, if we as a country choose to help some of our best friends by forgiving them a debt extended to them in a desperate time, rather than allowing non-repayment to strain and embitter an otherwise very happy friendship, is that really so crazy? The brothers Castro and the despot Bob are different animals - don't go lumping them all in the same cage.

      Gary - 2010-12-20 04:10

      What are you smoking to sprout such revisionist bullsh1t.

      Spyker May - 2010-12-20 09:44

      You come across as another bone-head anarchist swindler, hell-bent on inciting mindless masses into the collective hysteria of direct action, with fictitious promises of shared wealth, always a mirage and perpetually just out of reach. While the Socialist Aristocracy relishes in the spoils (obtained through common theft) of the facade that is feudalism is disguise; the workers-class remains shackled in the turmoil of their mandatory class conflict, deprived of perspective by a rigorously bounded rationality. You pursue some allegory that every janitor is in reality just a closet-Managing-Director and that by some inexplicable collective force of the universe, people will magically know what to do, when to do it and why it should be done. According your doctrine, leadership is superfluous, merely a delusion of some evil capitalist plot. Conveniently though, there is always a transient lapse of reason when the socialist realises that those controlling the unions, are in fact practising exactly what they are ostracising... You fail to grasp the single fundamental flaw of the entire socialism doctrine: industrialisation- and hence the entire WORKERS-CLASS came about as a result of CAPITALISM. These two basic elements are mutually inclusive, bru – take one away and the other will see its @rse – eg the small matter of a certain Union of Soviet Socialist Republics... Take the US and EU out of the China equation and you have..? Mmmm, back to the red & black drawing board...

      Spyker May - 2010-12-20 09:47

      “relationship... ...remarkably fruitful”. Dude – if Castro could not help himself, how the f**k could he help SA..? Re “hurricanes” – I realise socialists are used to dealing with the mindless; this is not that site though. The economic crisis in Cuba started long before and Cuba had been negotiating with its lenders prior to both hurricanes; to lower their interest payments, so they could meet their financial obligations. Eg Cuba could cannot even afford toilet paper – I hope the SAcan “masses” are taking notes. The economic crisis in Cuba started the day Castro marched into Havana and deepened when the USSR imploded - viz Cuba was just an economic lackey and not a sustainable entity. Cuba never recovered from the ‘Special Period’ or in fact from the 1959 carnival. “...economic sabotage waged by Washington...” Who started it – the Castro brothers created a one-party state and matrimony with the USSR. Then a certain “Missile Crisis” – what do you expect the US to do..? It was entirely a premeditated action by the Castros – don’t come crying to mommy now..! Such a notion can only be compared with the cloud-cuckoo-land notion that Africa’s problems are due colonisation. Aside the pertinent question – who “oppressed” Africans for 10 000 years prior to the arrival of Europeans – seeing that the wheel had not even been invented at the time. What stopped Africans from colonising Europe..? All that is crazy - is NOT lumping despots like the brothers Castro and Bob, together...

      Anne - 2010-12-21 03:15

      Tourism is one of the main sources of income in Cuba today, and the fancy five star beach resorts stand in stark contrast to the rest of the country, which is stuck in the fifties when Castro took over. Talking to young people who work at these resorts, one quickly catches on as to how they long to be free to do what they want, go where they want and be the architects of their own destiny. They are certainly not happy with things the way they are. There are few jobs and very little money. This is an oppressive regime where one person runs the show and everybody else is being kept under control. How fair is that? Cuba is the last place that can be extolled as an example to others. Fidel Castro and now his brother are not really that different from 'despot Mugabe'. They are despots themselves, nothing less.

      ChristopherGlenHarrison - 2010-12-22 11:59

      Haha, where did I ever say I was a socialist/communist, or make any such promises/incitements, Spyker? Are you sure I'm "hell-bent on inciting mindless masses into the collective hysteria of direct action, with fictitious promises of shared wealth, always a mirage and perpetually just out of reach"? No matter how many times I read it, I still don't see it. Are you reading my posts and replying to them, or just yelling about communism more generally? I can't claim to be an expert on Cuba, but I do find the country extremely interesting, mostly since it's post-1991 'special period' serves as an interesting case study of how the world may adapt to an overall energy crisis, should one arise. Also, their medical and education systems make for interesting analysis, as they illustrate the progress that under-resourced communities can make, where institutions and incentives are aligned with the goals of social empowerment. Also, with regards to US/Cuba relations, please do a bit of reading on the Accommodation Policy adopted with regards to Cuba. I'm not some Stalinist throwback, spouting dated rhetoric and bowing down to the image of Che, nor am I an apologist for the abuses that do occur in Cuba. I'm just an interested nerd, calling it as I see it. You guys are clearly stuck in some crazy 'cold war' mentality.

      maseratifitt - 2010-12-22 19:32

      Dear ChristopherGlen Harrison: Your friend owes your children R10 000. He is in a position to repay them. You yourself take a very large salary and live in opulence, while your children go hungry and live in squalor. Your friend gives you some meaningless award and you promptly write off the debt. Now you must go home and explain to your children that they must continue to go hungry because you don't want to mess up a good friendship between your rich self and your rich friend.(Castro & Cronies).

      ChristopherGlenHarrison - 2010-12-23 12:43

      maseratifitt - surely this situation is sufficiently simple that we can discuss it directly, without resort to poorly-tailored analogies? And let's be clear - Castro isn't 'rich' - even his opponents grudgingly accept that he's one of only a handful of dictators who has not used his position to enrich himself.

  • Joumase - 2010-12-20 13:12

    Fok ek's bly ek klaar met hierdie land! Die plek is in sy moer en net die ama-boi-boi's kan dit nie sien nie. Groete uit Ysland.

      maseratifitt - 2010-12-22 19:36

      Fok, wat soek jy daar? Die plek is besig om te smelt! Kom terug, broer! Die regering het jou geld nodig!

  • Diamond Dog - 2011-01-04 09:59

    Welcome to deep dark Africa. If you're not black, you just will not understand the blatant ignorance.